Giants Stomp on Cubs at HoHoKam Park

Buster Posey and Joaquin Arias collected three hits a piece, as the Giants defeated the Cubs 9-3 in Cactus League action this afternoon at Dwight Pattrerson Field at HoHoKam Park in Mesa, AZ.



box score


Travis Wood got the start for the Cubs and labored through four innings of work (93 pitches - only 50 strikes), surrendering four runs on seven hits (three doubles and four singles) and four walks (including Giants pitcher Ryan Vogelsong twice, the second one a lead-off four-pitch walk) plus two WP. Wood had two especially long innings (a 26-pitch 3rd and a 28-pitch 4th) that probably precluded him from going out for a 5th inning. 


"Supersub" utility man Brent Lillibridge had an absolutely awful day at shortstop, a performance that will call into question whether he can or should ever play the position (which is his "natural" position, BTW) in an MLB regular season game. He commited a fielding error in the top of the 1st that allowed a batter to reach base (and as a result T. Wood had to pitch out of a bases-loaded jam), and made three bad throws later in the game (one a terrible relay throw on what should have been a 4-6-3 DP, another a one-hopper that first-baseman Steve Clevenger was able to snag and then tag the batter-runner for an out, and a 3rd that should have been the start of a 6-4-3 DP but ended up in RF, eventualy allowing two unearned runs to score). 


Cory Wade (battling for the last slot in the bullpen) had a poor outing, throwing two innings and allowing four runs (but only two ER thanks to the Lillibridge throwing error) on four hits (including two doubles) and a walk. Wade threw several low-pitch innings in previous appearances and looked to be efficient if not over-powering, but he did that by pitching-to-contact and probably having some luck with BABIP. But today his stuff was exposed as below average and VERY hittable, and so I doubt that he will be seeing Wrigley Field anytime soon.    


Shawn Camp and Hector Rondon were very good, however, Camp striking out the side in a 1-2-3 8th, and Rondon throwing a scoreless 9th with one strikeout. 


The Cubs offense mostly struggled against Giants SP Ryan Vogelsong, eventually scoring three runs, one on an RBI double by David DeJesus that SF CF Angel Pagan lost in the sun, and the other a two-out two-run HR into the bullpen beyond the RF fence by Dioner Navarro in the bottom of the 6th (Vogelsong's last inning), Navarro's 4th Cactus League HR of 2013. 

Comments

The defense wasnt the best, but Cory Wade did not do himself any favors in making the pitching staff.

AZP--What's the deal with Panigua? This guy is presumably one of the Cubs' top 2-3 starting pitcher prospects, signed with much fanfare last year. Now he's gone all Waldo on us? Or have you sighted the guy in Mesa?

I get dark visions of Lillibridge as the New Jose Macias....

Don't you dare slander the non-great Macias. He's my favorite shitty ex-cub (closely beating out Choi, Fox and Dubois)

Choi actually had some talent until he got "outed". My fave shitty ex-Cub from the 2000's - on has to be Randall Simon. Wade Miller is up there too simply b/c he had the balls and the good sense to get Jim Hendry to sign him

None of those guys saved a season like Neifi.

(golf clap)

That's true...but I was only thinking of baseball players.

I like to fondly recall the time in spring training 2005 that Glendon Rusch got his entire $2 million salary paid to him in twenties and then stuffed it all into his uniform before taking the mound.

Isn't that about the same time Hendry slimmed down? Coincidence?

With a 12 year career, and a .7 WAR, Neifi wouldn't make my "shittiest Cub List". Typically mediocre and overused during the Dusty regime for sure, though.

920 PA .276/.297/.384 - .681 OPS - N.Perez

1244 PA .263/.305/.349 - .654 OPS - D.Barney

lulz. sigh.

Removed because I don't know how to read.

those are solely cubs numbers.

neifi needed injuries to get more ABs after his 1-season sink/swim...barney is getting ready to go into year 3 of being handed the job as a starter.

i hope they're done with him as soon as it's time to start actually paying him for his glove game...unless he's fine working injury replacement/rest replacement/late inning bench.

Of course Neifi was 31-32 with the Cubs:
2005-$1,000,000
2006-$2,500,000
Barney was 25-26 making:
2011- $500,000
2012- $562,000

yeah, that's why i hope the cubs are done with him when it's time to start paying him real money unless he's happy working part time off the bench.

d.barney is about to go into year 3 as the undisputed starter.

True. Barney as the cheap starter during rebuilding is all well and good.
I'm hoping he gets some competition from Logan Watkins next year.

I felt the same about Terry O.

...about Terry O.
---
SCRAPPY!

Which insulted your senses more Neifi the lead off hitter or Neifi the # 5 hitter?

neifi's 115-ish leadoff PAs...the blight on the cubs that will never die.

he didn't deserve to be there, of course.

119 batting 1st...2 batting 5th...looked it up. he hit 7th and 2nd a lot more.

Wasn't his fault that Dusty was his manager. Sori is not to be faulted for Hendry giving him an 8-year contract with an NTC.

True.
He sucked balls. That was his fault.

He had a few good years with the team. But the knee injury robbed him of several very productive years he may have had with the team.

everything is dusty's fault last i checked...and he's the only guy that would actually let d.barney be a starter for 3 years...i mean, let n.perez be a starter for 1 year.

Darwin Barney is a better hitter and defender than Neifi and is playing on a team that isn't trying to compete.

calling d.barney a better hitter is like saying having AIDS is better than having Super AIDS. hell, one could argue that d.barney is a worse hitter. neifi had .13 better BA, .08 worse OB%, and .27 better slugging...still, it's low level pathetic either way, either player, no matter who has the edge.

You can't argue he's a worse hitter and again the key here is non-competing team. Cheap player who plays very good defense and not blocking anyone that I know of. Unlike Neifi where we were actually trying to compete with that black hole at SS. This team is spending money on the players it really wants and I can guarantee if they see someone better at 2b when the time is right they will get them.

There is really no comparison.

yeah, you can argue he's a worse hitter...there's no slam-dunk...there's even an argument you can point to with numbers that he's a worse hitter.

still, this an argument about 2 of the worst full time players the cubs have had...1 got 1 full season...the other is getting a shot at a 3rd full season. ronny cedeno got a full year, too, worse than neifi or d.barney...at least he only got 1 season, though.

Which insulted your senses more Neifi the lead off hitter or Neifi the # 5 hitter?
---
I love this question.

Some of this history is a bit blurry to me these days but as I recall...When DLee broke his wrist (April 2006) it was Neifi who replaced him. Todd Walker was shifted to first and Neifi played 2nd. I don't recall Neifi being put into DLee's spot in the lineup, so he probably batted in the 1-2 slot. Did Neifi really bat 5th? As I recall, they went with Todd Walker over Grudz (after 2004 season) because Walker hit lefty...foreshadowing the Hendry's Milton Bradley choice when he and Lou decided the Cubs needed to get more left handed.

With Lee out, the Cubs could move Todd Walker over from second base or use veteran utility player John Mabry, manager Dusty Baker said after Wednesday's game.

neifi had 7 PA batting 5th in 06...2 PA in 05. he mostly hit 2nd or 8th in 06...2nd or 7th in 05...

dusty had/has a thing for "contact hits 2nd"...no matter the ob%, if you don't K a lot and make contact, that's how he loves to use the #2 slot. it was nice to see dusty use t.walker in the 2 slot vs righties when he was a cub...it's the type of guy you give a manager like dusty if you're a GM that wants your "contact hits 2nd" manager to plug into the #2 slot a guy who has ob% along with his contact.

Neifi batting 5th more then once was enough. I just remember him batting 5th or 6th and bunting for last out with tying run on third in 9th.

Neifi started out with some good ideas and good intentions.

He just took them a little too far....

needs more adderall and methamphetamines.

he kept the trains on time

Ha ha. I saw what you did there.

Since (golf clap) has already been used on this thread, I'll just say thanks for that comment.

OPS+ by year

Neifi
2003 - 141 (67PA - ignore)
2004 - 79
2005 - 53 (before trade to Detroit)

Barney
2010 - 54 (85 PA - ignore)
2011 - 83
2012 - 79

OPS+ is even hated by a lot of stat geeks =p

it's a "park adjusted" faith stat along with a comparative season aggregate stat.

most people hate ERA+ more, though.

Isn't it normalized by league average? It seems traditional measures wouldn't account for the currently depressed run environment.

Muskat with some quotes from Scott Baker after his recent MRI and MD visit with Dr. Gryzlo. Not much news but, whatever.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...

...and the Halos received a couple of token minor leaguers in outfielder Exicardo Cayones and lefty reliever Kramer Sneed.

This is interesting only in that Soriano might bring. Wells to the Yankees with NY picking up $13M/2 for 2 useless prospects and salary relief for the Angels that gets them under the salary cap.

useless is practically an over-statement. e.cayones is interesting, but he has an alarming lack of power with no above-average speed to match. k.sneed's numbers makes him look like he's close to being out of organized ball given his age, performance, and level.

if the best the cubs can hope to get out of shifting soriano is saving $10-$15 and picking up little of talent in exchange...well, they still have to replace what soriano can do even if he's overpaid to do it.

Totally different beast. The Yanks wanted a name on the cheap without giving up prospects. Epstein wants prospects as a key portion of the deal. Hence, why the deal never happened with Soriano.

late-in-thread hijack:  Head to Head league looking for one (or three) more players. Mostly TCRers, though some of us aren't around here much any more, like me.  Low-intensity, high year-to-year continuity, engagement.  Check it out:  yahoo id 62369 and password samfuld

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  • he subscribes to my twitter, he's beyond TCR. #yolo #swag

    crunch 23 min 36 sec ago view
  • Whoops. Maddon must have been reading TCR (for his daily crunch) and got confused.

    CTSteve 26 min 3 sec ago view
  • kuhl is a righty, not a lefty.

    i think maddon might think kuhl is a lefty, too. i wonder what the reasoning is for baez leading off vs a rightie.

    crunch 1 hour 7 min ago view
  • "trout's one of the best, and at this point should probably win over donaldson (and should have more MVPs in the past, too), but the defensive aspect of valuing WAR still needs more tweaking...imo."

    that's from my 1st post. there's no suck involved in that. maybe with a few less posts about bullshit that point would have jumped out more.

    crunch 1 hour 54 min ago view
  • crunch - you do know that, taking defense out of the equation, Trout has led the AL in wRC+ each of those years, right?

    And, if you want to complain about position adjustment (which would be serious #crunchsplaining), he's been in the top 3 in the AL in WC (not park/league/position adjusted). And the only players ahead of him (if there were any players ahead of him) in any of those years have been DHs or 1B that play lousy defense.

    But sure - Trout sucks (or at least isn't as good as WAR says). Because it factors in defense and position.

    big_lowitzki 2 hours 58 min ago view
  • early tim tebow stuff rolling in...

    ran a 6.7 60yd (above average)...shagging flies in RF and showed off a rather impressive arm a few times, but average-at best on most of his throws...hit a few over the fence (both fields), fouled or weak contact a few...he's got a touch of power

    it'll be interesting to see who bites on this project, if anyone. he probably projected himself out of RF and into LF/1st because of his arm, but unless he can make that power work on a steady basis it'll be hard for him to play himself up anyone's system.

    crunch 3 hours 44 min ago view
  • LHP Clayton Richard (released by the Cubs earlier this month) is pitching very well as a starting pitcher for the San Diego Padres and could be a good candidate to get traded to a contender looking for a veteran SP before tomorrow night's post-season roster eligibility deadline.

    Because they released him, the Cubs are paying most of Richard's 2016 salary (the Cubs are on the hooks for $2M, minus the pro-rated portion of the MLB minimum salary that is paid by the Padres).

    Arizona Phil 5 hours 31 min ago view
  • it is honestly awesome (for real) that anyone would even have a strong opinion on AZL playoffs. i guess if you invest enough time watching it, you want to see a fair/just playoff structure.

    plus, the kids deserve it.

    crunch 5 hours 31 min ago view
  • The AZL team with the best record over the course of the full 2016 AZL season and the only AZL team to play .600 ball (the AZL Dodgers) did not qualify for the AZL playoffs, and the AZL East Division team with the best record over the course of the full season (the AZL Athletics) did not qualify for the AZL playoffs, either. 

    That's because of the ridiculous "split season" schedule most of the minor leagues now play, a stupid system that rewards mediocrity at the expense of the worthy. 

    Arizona Phil 5 hours 38 min ago view
  • Despite good movement on his fastball, I think location kept him from getting Ks. Left some pitches up and away that got hammered up and away. Then of course Travis Wood gave up the 2-run double in the 7th, but both runs counted against Arrieta.

    Charlie 6 hours 15 min ago view
  • "i'm gonna make you my main squeeze one day, bro. save the date."

    This level of discourse is #charming.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 6 hours 15 min ago view
  • I would be having this discussion with anyone who (a) blathered on ad nauseum about the topic. (See, "Olt, Mike, not given an opportunity") or (b) responded directly to what I posted (which you did).

    Have a nice day.

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 6 hours 18 min ago view
  • what would you do without me? aside from having your posting content here cut by 75%+?

    i'm gonna make you my main squeeze one day, bro. save the date.

    crunch 6 hours 21 min ago view
  • In this instance, yes, I care more about the result of this big thing that isn't really a big thing.

    #crunchsplaining

    #willlistentojeffsullivanmorethanyou

    #blessyourheart

    #hitler

    #tcrmartyr

    #billyhamiltonwar

    #baseballtalk

    Tito 6 hours 22 min ago view
  • Two things:

    Fangraphs WAR #s include baserunning and Hamilton is elite at that. He leads in SBs with the 54 and and has an 87% rate which is really good. I'm sure once he gets on base he's able to take the extra base quite often too. Both those things will up his overall WAR value.

    The differences between BR and FG WAR is pretty well documented online and thus If there are discrepancies it's fairly easy to figure out why. It's fairly well accepted that BR WAR is fine as a snapshot but FG is better at predicting future value.

    johann 6 hours 26 min ago view
  • i have no doubt at all you quit reading at that point. you're very enamored with outcomes without caring what it takes to get there.

    the fact it's exploitable, especially without someone to cover the running game for him, as well it's evolution in how people are testing possible exploits is interesting to some people...to me...i'm some people...hurrah.

    some people want to check the boxscore to see who won, some want to know how it went down.

    crunch 6 hours 38 min ago view