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Last updated 4-23-2024
 
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Cardinals @ Cubs: Wacha vs. Hammel (Game 84 Thread)

Submitted by CTSteve on

STL (54-30): RHP Michael Wacha (10-3, 2.66)

CHC (46-37): RHP Jason Hammel (5-4, 2.89)

First pitch: 7:05pmCT

Pham cf

Carpenter* 2b

Peralta ss

Heyward* rf

Molina c

Reynolds 3b

Grichuk lf

Johnson* 1b

Wacha p

 

Fowler# cf

Rizzo* 1b

Bryant 3b

Soler rf

Castro ss

Montero* c

Coghlan* lf

Hammel p

Russell 2b

Hammel is coming off of two straight losses and hasn’t won since June 6. Of course, the Cubs have  scored only 3 runs in his last last three starts. He pitched well against Miami on Friday (7 IP, 2 ER). Peralta (with 2 HRs) and Heyward are 18-38 against him.

Wacha had a no decision against SD his last time out (7 IP, 1 ER) and beat the Cubs on June 27 the time before that (6 IP, 1 ER). Castro and Rizzo are a combined 12-28 against him.

Three of four was really the best-case scenario, so let’s do that.

Go Cubs!

Tags
Cubs 2015 Game Thread

Comments

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:34 pm

bryant is going to be in the HR derby. great, now i have to watch it. his dad is pitching to him. cool stuff.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:23 pm

c.richard up in the pen hammel on the bench. it's the middle 2nd inning. wtf? :(

Submitted by Cubster on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:31 pm

They showed the replay of the last out where Hammel came off the mound and winced after his first step, then limped toward first to cover if needed (3U). Speculating on a leg/back issue but nothing official. Edit: Left hamstring tightness is what they reported to the media.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:10 pm

BASES CLEARING DOUBLE! CUBS LEAD BY 1 IN THE 6TH! MOLINA TOSSED! MATHENY TOSSED! TEARS SHED EVERYWHERE!

Submitted by Carlito on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:38 pm

The self proclaimed classiest team in baseball absolutely losing its shit. Love it. Blaming the umps on back to back days. With the ball in play, Molina abandones his post and blocks the ump from doing his job immediately, runners circling bases and Molina not covering his position, never seen that before. Total bush league bullshit. I guess they are not used to borderline calls going both ways.

Submitted by Andy on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:55 pm

Castro makes the minimal effort on the basepaths, as usual. In this case it was watching practically from the batter's box a ball that landed maybe an inch foul in the left field corner. At the Cubs-Cards game I went to in STL last week, he was thrown out at the plate on a grounder after failing to get a secondary lead off of third. Can't he be fined when he does this, or at least humiliated by his manager in front of his teammates?

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Submitted by Carlito on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:02 pm

Strikes out looking bases loaded one out down 4-2 in the 6th. Perfect pitch inside corner and he jumps like he was robbed. Let me repeat: he watched a fastball with 1 out two strikes and bases loaded down 4-2 in the 6th to the cardinals. Then in the 8th he doesn't run out the above mentioned play, and eventually strikes out with men on corners and a very important insurance run sitting there with one out. He is absolutely infuriating. 5 base runners stranded, two strikeouts with less than two outs, both at bats with a man on 3rd.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:04 pm

you have got to be shitting me.

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Submitted by crunch on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:06 pm

there are fans still standing waiting for that 3rd out...it's like they don't want to believe.

Submitted by Andy on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:09 pm

It's amazing how much emotion Pat Hughes can convey in the words "...on the Xfinity WBBM Cubs Radio Network".

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:12 pm

i feel like the cubs are owed a tie game here...at the very least. i know it was all on the level, but that felt like straight up robbery.

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Submitted by Carlito on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:28 pm

Strop has that intangible LaTroy thing going this year where he can take a situation and tease the horrors out of it ... the odds are better than batting practice for that one second when it really matters.

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Submitted by VirginiaPhil on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:57 am

I might have said it here before: Strop is the second coming of Carlos Marmol. He has the exact same arsenal: a killer slider, and a fastball that is practically useless because he can't control it. That's a bad combo, because the slider is there to get swings, not to be a called strike. He doesn't have a pitch he can throw for a strike. So Carpenter, the tying run, walks on four pitches with two out in the ninth. Memo to Cubs: steer clear of pitchers who can't throw a fastball for a strike, no matter how good the slider is. Well, nobody said he was a closer. The problem was that Motte made two appearances the day before.

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Submitted by dcf on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:07 pm

I'd argue that all three of Rondon, Motte and Strop do not have great command of their fastballs. They depend on velocity, not location. I think a fair number of power-armed relievers are that way. I think Chapman is that way, as are Kenley Jansen and Craig Kimbrel, not to mention guys like Fernando Rodney. Chapman's fastball is so good that it almost doesn't matter with him. I was at the game last night. I was almost madder about the walk to Carpenter on 4 pitches (with two outs, no one on and a lead) than the homer (although I was certainly mad about the homer too). With Carpenter, make him hit it; with Peralta, don't throw a belt high fastball on the inner half (particularly on a 1-2 count). If you're going to throw him a fastball in that count, either really elevate it or throw it enough off the plate that he can't hit it hard. Poor execution in each case. Oh well . . . .

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Submitted by johann on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:54 pm

Pedro Strop has a much longer pattern of success than Marmol and much better control. 3.15 ERA and .86 WHIP in late and close situations after last nights runs and a 3.03 ERA and .93 WHIP overall is someone you can count on. Let's not overreact here based on emotions from one loss.

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Submitted by Carlito on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:30 pm

He has 2 saves and 2 blown saves. The 2 blown saves are to St. Louis ... His WHIP is 1.77 with men in scoring position. He's given up twice as many HR this year as last year already. His ERA vs 2015 St. Louis is astronomical btw ... You are right of course, he's pretty good and it is an overreaction, but I swear I knew He was gonna give up the HR. You don't want a guy who has command issues pitching in that situation. When you miss up in the strike zone in that situation you're a serious liability.

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Submitted by johann on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:45 pm

Everyone has some team they seem to suck against. It sucks it's the Cardinals for Strop but I'm hazarding a guess we have several relievers who struggle against them. Montero was quoted as saying Strop was trying to do too much when he got 2 outs yesterday and should have pitched to Carpenter who is struggling a. Strop's 2 out #s seem to bear this out as a patten. If so that is on the catcher and pitching coach to as soon as they see Strop doing too much after 2 outs go out and talk to him. To me it was obvious after 2 balls vs Carpenter that he was pitching around and if I were the catcher I would have been out there.

[ ]

Submitted by Old and Blue on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:58 pm

The thing is about that pitch Peralta clobbered was that if he had swung and missed, people probably would have raved about what a neat pitch it was after setting him up, blah blah. He clearly didn't get the pitch where he wanted it, but the credit really goes to the hitter on that one. It was just a nice bomb. Strop's real mistake was walking Carpenter. Montero said it better than I can, and I quote, "2 out walks in the 9th will hunt you down." It sure did. I've lost some confidence in Strop but I do think he'll get it back. I hope so, at least.

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Submitted by Charlie on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:59 pm

I mean, not to interrupt some ex-Cub closer bashing, but Marmol had a pretty good pattern of success in 2007, 2008, and 2010, and he wasn't bad in 2009. If the Cubs get from Strop 3 years of ERAs at or below 2.68 and WAR of 1.7 or higher, I'd say that's pretty good. There are worse relief pitchers to get compared to than Marmol. I'd actually say that comp is probably a little too kind to Strop (so far in his career), unless you are completely ignoring the dominant years that Marmol had. Also, Sammy Sosa was fun and Alex Gonzalez hit some important extra-inning home runs in 2003. And things weren't really Barrett's fault.

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Submitted by johann on Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:11 pm

I actually didn't realize Marmol was as good as long as he was which makes the criticism of both him and Marmol unfounded. However FIP #s are far friendlier for Strop than they were for Marmol and were definitely one indicator Marmol might run into problems. Strop on the other hand seems more sustainable in the future just looking at FIP and WHIP. Either way I wouldn't say Strop is a great reliever and the person I want as permanent closer but he's a very good one and my original point is still that it's an overreaction for people to say he can't be trusted. Also he had a 2.63 ERA before that 2 run HR.

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Submitted by WISCGRAD on Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:19 am

An open question: is a 3.03 ERA good enough these days for your 8th inning / back-up closer guy?  Cardinals have Rosenthal at 0.69 and Siegrist at 1.38. Pirates have Melancon (1.54), Watson (2.03), and Hughes (2.33). Holland, the Royals closer, is 2.92 and he is the HIGHEST of SIX guys in their pen.

Cubs have Rondon at 1.98 and Grimm at 1.25, even Russell is at 1.71, and Wood is 2.59 since his move to the pen. Motte is actually bit high at 2.97, and then Strop is at 3.03. That's not bad. But isn't an ERA over 3.00 more of a 4-5-6 guy in the pen these days, not the closer or back-up closer? You don't bring guys wth ERAs over 3.00 into very high leverage situations like the 9th inning with a 1-run lead. I mean an over 3.00 ERA means, on average, he will give up a run in 1/3rd of such situations, right?

When Strop is on he is filthy, but when he is off he is wild and hittable. I like that better in the 7th inning where if it appears he doesn't have it you can bring someone else in to finish the inning or go your 8th inning guy sooner. 

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Submitted by dcf on Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:11 am

You raise a good point. You can make arguments that ERAs for late inning bullpen guys should be lower due to (i) more matchup advantages (although this can cut both ways) and (ii) the ability to throw harder because of not having to save yourself for later like a starter would. It would be interesting to see if there have been any studies of this. Neil Ramirez's ERA was 1.44 last year. I think if he could do that again, while being able to pitch regularly, he might be your 8th inning guy, which would push Strop back to the 7th, and possibly set up the rest of the bullpen into more defined roles. Maddon seems to be using Russell as a lefty matchup (but not a full fledged LOOGY). I don't know who the closer should be. I was surprised to see when I checked this morning that Rondon's WHIP is below one, and his BB/9 is 2.0. I would really like to see relievers with BB/9 rates below 3. Strop is currently at 4, and Grimm is at 4.6. Strop's WHIP is also below one (notwithstanding the walk rate), and Motte's WHIP is currently 1.080.

Submitted by Carlito on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:21 pm

Castro needs to bat 9th (and preferably for the Mets) and Strop needs to never pitch the last out.

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Submitted by VirginiaPhil on Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:07 am

Castro just needs to keep chugging toward 1,000 hits (at age 25) and keep getting good rips like he has the last few days, leading to a dozen or so home runs between now and the end of the season, so that he begins to look like a 20-HR guy. Not too many shortstops can say that. Then he'll be under someone else's tree on Christmas morning. He's not a good fit for the Cubs. He's not their/our/my kind of player.

Submitted by johann on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:29 pm

If you had told me before this series started we would split it with the Cards I'd have been pretty happy considering the track record so far. The way we lost this game really, really sucked but I guess losing Hammel and still almost winning is a good sign.

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Submitted by johann on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:36 pm

I mean emotionally yeah it sucks to lose like that but rationally who cares how we lose it's stil just one 1 L. Also to me there were a lot of positives to take out of this Game and series. We split with the best team in baseball and a team that has dominated us lately. We almost won a game where we lost our arguably best pitcher after one inning and whose replacement looked like crap. We came back against a legit ace. The Cubs showed that they can hang with the Cardinals all series and game and even all season where a few bad bounces and misplays have been the difference. We aren't getting blown out and that's with a very young team who will get better. So while in the moment seeing that HR blew I have no problems being overall happy coming out of this series.

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Submitted by Carlito on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:02 pm

I hear you. I was joking, kind of. But you are right, I assume that is how Maddon will try and spin it to the players and build off of that good showing. I just hate seeing the Cards on the ropes, totally whining and losing their shit, and somehow they pull it off in that fashion. Baseball Gods blew that one ...

Submitted by Carlito on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:02 pm

Molina should be suspended btw. Interfering with an umpire when the ball is in play can't be okay with the league office can it?

Submitted by billybucks on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:22 pm

I have been to some brutal losses over the years, and would have to say this one ranked only behind the Bartman game. It wasn't just Strop's Latroy moment (a tip of the cap to the earlier post) -- this would have been a defining win, coming from down 4-0 against Wacha, we hit line drives that were caught all night (including two to start the 9th!), Castro's ball was foul by a foot (if that)...and it was against the Cardinals, so there was a huge cheer when Peralta hit one out. If it's the Dodgers or the Mets, it's not as painful. That went from one of the best games I've ever been to to one of the worst in one pitch. Un-flippin'-believable. Felt like Chris Conte against the Packers. Crap. Double crap.

Submitted by billybucks on Wed, 07/08/2015 - 07:27 pm

Little things add up -- when Ramirez gave up the HR in the 9th yesterday, the Cubs had to use Motte for the second time and couldn't use him today. If Ramirez gets a couple of outs, Motte might have been available, and who knows. Triple crap.

Submitted by Dusty Baylor on Thu, 07/09/2015 - 07:01 am

Why flip Rondon and Strop? Motte was unavailable....Rondon has pitched well...he was the closer. Strop was the 8th inning guy, let him stay there and Rondon close the game. Sigh......effing Cardinals.

Recent comments

  • Dolorous Jon Lester (view)

    I don’t buy that. They had been doing that for years.

    They did it with Matt Holliday. They did it with John Lackey. They did it with Mark Mulder. They did it with Jason Heyward, who had a great year for them. I’m sure there’s more but those come to mind immediately.

    I attribute it more to a breakdown in what they’re doing in terms of development than a culture thing.

  • TarzanJoeWallis (view)

    They won those trades and sacrificed their culture. That’s exactly their problem.

  • Dolorous Jon Lester (view)

    The other part that’s kind of crazy is they made two very high profile trades, one for Goldschmidt and one for Arenado, and they very clearly won those trades. They just haven’t been able to develop players the last handful of years the way they usually do.

    I guess the moral there is it’s hard to stay on top of your game and be good at what you do in perpetuity.

  • TarzanJoeWallis (view)

    Marmol was extended at the beginning of the year. Two years I believe.

  • crunch (view)

    Jesse Rogers @JesseRogersESPN
    Craig Counsell doesn’t have a timetable for Cody Bellinger who technically has two cracked ribs on his right side. CT scan showed it today.

  • Dolorous Jon Lester (view)

    Thought it might have been David Peralta given the open 40 man spot and how PCA has played so far. 

  • Dolorous Jon Lester (view)

    I hope they keep Mozeliak a few more years. Marmol too!

  • crunch (view)

    wow, counsell coming with the early lineup.  rarity.

    canario/tauchman/happ RF/CF/LF

  • crunch (view)

    PCA called up.

  • crunch (view)

    welp...

    bellinger...fractured rib.

    a not-very-ready PCA will probably be called up when it would be much better for him to be in AAA getting regular ABs.

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