Don’t Tease Us, Al

From Al Yellon's Bleed Cubbie Blue, way way down at the bottom of the post, after his review of the new Star Wars movie:
Finally, the usual "reliable sources" tell me that further trades may be on the horizon, which may include one or more starting players. Beyond this I cannot comment without compromising my source, and I'd like to keep the information flow. Stay tuned.
That, my friends, is one of the best cases of burying the lede I have ever seen in my life. So who's it gonna be? Speculators, mount up!
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Comments

If there are trades in the works, I hope to see a good quality everyday player, not just a trade to make it look like your doing something. Personally I would start in Centerfield SEE YA COREY

Agreed. Waiting for Patterson to realize his potential seems futile at this point. If I could script a trade it would be something like...

Patterson and a prospect for Brad Wilkerson.

only thing with Patterson is...he is relatively cheap...but yes, I have lost patience in him too.
I could see us trading Hollandsworth...although that wouldn't get us much...maybe Walker...although not sure what good that would do. Otherwise I don't see other starters that we could trade? Get rid of Neifi while he is hot maybe?

wilkerson? ugh that guy is a tease like patterson. corey is better defensively, and both arent consistent with the bat, and corey is cheaper.

the cubs should go after billy wagner.

WHAT!?!

Yeah. Where does corey get off hitting .275 at twenty five with great defense, speed, and legitimate homerun power.

I can't WAIT til' we dump him. Who wanted the Cubs to have a talented young player with major league experience anyway.

So to brush aside the sarcasm, if we trade Corey for anything less than an all-star, we're robbing ourselves of a player who will be huge in another year or so.

Can a closer really save a team that doesn't have the bats to get them the lead in the 9th? That's the question I have about shooting for a closer now at the expense of a starting fielder.

modesi,graves and marrero are all available for cheap, and we dont have to give up players

I want Womack @ 2nd! Corey and a prospect to Yankees for Womack. Walker and Hairston to Oakland for Zito. Does that make sense?

Mondesi, Graves and Marrero are all available for a reason. They all stink. Mondesi is contemplating retirement, Graves cant hit the ocean from a boat let alone a strikezone (unless its serving up 84 mph cheese right down the pipe) and Marrero is a backup catcher who cant catch that well.

Ugh.

Id rather have my toenails removed with some ancient, rusty, metric pliers than have any of those three guys on the Cubs.

geez...some of you guys are downright pathetic. We could do a whole lot worse than Corey in CF, he's good defensively, fast, and can hit the ball (and he's just starting to heat up I think). Once Dusty figures out (and I think he may have now) that he isn't a lead-off hitter, I think he's going to be a good solid player. I'm thinking that we may end up moving Walker or Burnitz, packaged with a minor league pitcher (perhaps Williams), for a pitching and then seeing someone from the minors brought up to fill the roster spot (and hopefully start)

***modesi,graves and marrero are all available for cheap, and we dont have to give up players***

What would any of these players do to assist this team, right now?

Womack is awful too. Why would we want him? We already have Neifi and Macias and Enrique. With Womack, we would have the market cornered for lousy 2Bs.

"I want Womack @ 2nd! Corey and a prospect to Yankees for Womack. Walker and Hairston to Oakland for Zito. Does that make sense?"

Those trades make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sure, lets trade away one of our better players and a prospect for someone whose best years are far behind him...are you sure your name isn't Dusty?

A trade for Zito does make sense, as I think he needs a change of scenery, but trading away both of our 2Bs makes no sense at the moment, unless we pick someone else up.

"I want Womack @ 2nd! Corey and a prospect to Yankees for Womack. Walker and Hairston to Oakland for Zito. Does that make sense?"

Those trades make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sure, lets trade away one of our better players and a prospect for someone whose best years are far behind him...are you sure your name isn't Dusty?

A trade for Zito does make sense, as I think he needs a change of scenery, but trading away both of our 2Bs makes no sense at the moment, unless we pick someone else up.

Again, Zito looks like a middle of the rotation innings eater now rather than a stud #1 guy. We can fill that spot just fine with the pitchers we have. IF our pitching coaching staff thinks they know the reason that Zito has been ineffective, and he comes CHEAP, then he might be worth a risk. But really, we have young starting pitching to use in our own system before we have to trade them to Billy Beane for his garbage.

now how about this though...

Corey, pitching prospect, and Woody to the Yanks for A-Rod and Joe Girardi ;-P

Lee for Choi, mark it down.

A recurring dream I have in which the Cubs acquire Cliff Floyd has me convinced hes coming to Chicago. So its an outfielder or Hairston, and probably not Burnitz. Because I wake up before the end I am not sure if this really is a nightmare.

I'm going with Danys Baez, for the dudes we got for Hawkins...effectively making it Baez for Hawkins, and eating a little salary.

Probably somebody like Dubois. Other teams will have the patience to turn him into an All Star. I'd hate to see Corey go just as he's starting to look comfortable. I think Hairston is NOT a good CF, so I don't see that as an option.

With surplus of outfielders, I could see Hairston going for a starting left fielder. Burnitz is solid and a one year player. That only leaves Neifi! in the infield for a starter. I don't see him going, just yet. Somebody will realize his offensive liabilities and shy away.

...Oh, I guess those wouldn't be starting players, but I still like the trade.

Here's another thought...

Mitre, Hairston, and Jerome Williams to the A's for Zito and Eric Byrnes

Here's another thought...

Mitre, Hairston, and Jerome Williams to the A's for Zito and Eric Byrnes.

I have a feeling we're going to be seeing some good old-fashioned Beane-ball pretty soon here...time for the A's to start stacking up on prospects

Hairston + Williams + prospect for Johnny Damon.

Or at least that's my dream.

After reading the comments on Al's site, a lot of attention seems to be focused on Barry Zito. I really think that this is a great idea...Barry can be an incredible pitcher when he's on, and hopefully a change of scenery is just what he needs. I'd love to see a Mulder/Zito, Cards/Cubs match up :)

Does anybody really think that we are going to trade CP? I am the #1 anti-CP guy out there but lets face it, it doesn't make sense to move him. IF we were ten games over .500 then I would think moving him to Boston for Johnny Damon (not straight up) would make sense. But, at his age, it doesn't make sense to get a much older player.

I would love to seem him moved but who would play center? Burnitz? Hairston? -shudder-

Also, I like Retrofade's trade.

According to cbssportsline.com - probably the worst at actually getting a scoop but..

"Rumors out of Oakland say the Cubs want OF Eric Byrnes, but the Chicago Tribune claims says Chicago isn't interested. (updated: 05/31/2005)"

It would only make sense if we got another centerfielder...I can't see how we could trade Corey for another position.

As for trading Corey...his cost makes it not make sense to get rid of him...unless another team percieves his value to be much higher than his cost. Either way...I do not think he should be traded for a short term fix. But if there is another young guy who is a little more dependent out there...even if we are eying someone in free agency, I wouldn't cry seeing CP leave us.

"He'll be great in another year or so". We've been saying that for how many years now? I think my biggest problem isn't his skill, it's his mental approach to the game that limits how managers can use him. He made it clear from the get go that he wanted to be a power hitter...and to me, his home run or strike out approach virtually wastes his speed on the base paths. There is no reason a guy like him should only have 6 to 8 steals or however many he has at this point in the season.

Yeah, Al confirmed in his comments that he heard another unsubstantiated rumor involving Zito.

I'm not sure if I like the idea. The Cubs will have a strong rotation during the second half, assuming Wood and Prior come back on schedule. And Rusch seems to be a better starter than a relief pitcher. I think what will help us most over the coarse of the season, like many were saying last season, is a top line relief pitcher. And this is true even more so after losing Hawkins. That's why I brought up Baez.

Lidge would be even better, but I don't think the 'Stros would be willing to trade within the division. And I don't think they'd sell off so early, because their marketing campaigns are heavily weighted on promoting the stars on the team.

I think Zito could help a bit. He's quietly gotten his ERA under 5.00

*dreams*

anyways...

when can we expect a draft thread? I love the MLB draft...

at the risk of getting myself in trouble like I did last year. We are all fans just throwing stuff about, none of us (As far as I know) has actual input as to what the Cubs management ultimately will do.

So can we chill out on comments like (not all said here)
"you guys are pathetic"
"that's the dumbest idea I have ever heard"
"You have to be an complete moron"

if nothing else, it just irks me to read comments along that line no matter who they are directed to. This thread shows that there are ways to point out a disagreement and build a discussion, without tearing a perspective apart.

For the record, I am a complete moron, I am pathetic, and I do suggest some of the dumbest ideas you will ever hear.

we're all grown ups adam. i don't think i've ever had a spirited conversation about sports where the words "pathetic," "dumbest," or "moron" came up. rest assured the friends i've had said conversations with are still friends.

If CP had toiled in the minors for the last 3+ years and was putting up these numbers(.279, 10 HR, 6 SB) in AAA ball we would all be talking about him as the future center fielder of the Cubs. He's only 25 and he is doing it in the majors, alot of guys dont make it out of the minors by his age(Dubois is 26).

Daniel...the last few weeks here have shown that not everyone who uses this site are grown ups...but certainly nothing here approaches the "trolling" that was going on.

Call it a personality flaw of mine if you will...I just cringe when I hear people arguing in those terms, whether it be among friends, about sports, or otherwise.

You guys can forget about the Patterson for Damon. It's just a joke. Theo loves Patterson, but not for Damon. Personally, I think Patterson for Pedroia is a possibility in the offseason once Damon is gone.

A bit of stat comparison between C-Pat and Wilkerson in 2005, for those of you on the Wilkerson bandwagon

Avg/Slg/OBP/HR/RBI/Runs

C-Pat
.279/.312/.463/10/19/27

Wilkerson
.286/.359/.469/3/20/27

It looks as though Wilkerson has just slightly better stats than C-Pat does...is it really worth $250,000 to get someone that's 2 years older, slower, and has punched out 90 more time in a year less in the majors? You guys complain about C-Pat's plate discipline now, but I can't even imagine what you'd do if we had Wilkerson. Personally, I think that C-Pat is a better player than Wilkerson is.

The Cubs are not going to be backing up the truck like some of these "trade proposals" indicate. This team is above .500 and have been devastated with injuries again, just like last year. If they can hang around .500 and make a run late, like they did to start Sept. last year, they will be right there for the WC.

Actually, to speculate further on Zito. How about Corey Patterson to the A's? Sure it isn't OBP%, however Beane's latest research has found that OBP is overvalued and speed undervalued -- in how much they are on the open market. Honestly, this seems 'relatively' likely to me:

Barry Zito and Mark Kotsay for Corey Patterson and Jerome Williams -- and perhaps Matt Murton or someone else.

It would make perfect sense for Beane. He'd get rid of Kotsay (who is an FA) and get a CF for next season (which they need). The Cubs get a OBP% CF/leadoff hitter.

Sure it isn't OBP%, however Beane's latest research has found that OBP is overvalued and speed undervalued

Where did you hear this?

Oh and the Cubs aren't trading CPat. They've invested this long in him - they won't do it now at the risk (however small) he suddenly gets it and becomes a star.

[b]Where did you hear this?[/b]

It was on ESPN.com earlier in the season. I'll get a link.

Corey Patterson will NEVER be a star. by that, he will NEVER be an All-Star or HOF contender. I think you need to be an all star to at least be considered a star. Corey Patterson will NEVER develop into the player he could have because he is a JERK. Yes a JERK. I jerk is a guy who refuses to realize his true potential cause he is too proud. Corey Patterson could have developed into a destructive force to the opposistion but won't. He thinks he's the next then next Barry Bonds. He's not even close.

I love the idea of Barry Zito and Mark Kotsay for Corey Patterson and Jerome Williams -- and perhaps Matt Murton or someone else. I could see Bean then fliping Cory to a team in need of a CF such as the Yankees, Phillies, or San Diego.

If you look at the comments over at www.bleedcubbieblue.com, you'll see the hints that Al dropped on us. Based on those, i think its clear Zito and Byrnes are coming our way, and potentially Dotel as well.

I'm thinking this could be a big one for the Cubs. If we can get Zito, Byrnes and maybe Dotel from the A's it would solve our greatest needs. The question is who we would have to give up. Certainly one of our second basemen would have to go in the deal (probably Hairston), as well as at least one pitching prospect. I'm thinking we'll be sending Rich Hill over, since he was called up to AAA during the time these talks must have been taking place. We would probably have to throw in at least one more prospect to make this a go, and i'm thinking it would be Matt Murton, who has been an OBP/plate discipline machine in AA. It could also be Dubois, but with all the OFs the A's have i think they're looking more for a long term prospect in the OF more than a MLB-ready one.

Then the trade would be:
Hairston, Hill, and Murton to the A's
Zito, Dotel, and Byrnes for the Cubs.

Pretty darn good... Byrnes isn't exactly an OBP machine, but he has hit leadoff for the A's, and is an all-out, hustling player that's a better lead off option than anything we can put out there, assuming Walker gets most of the starts at 2B. Even if you suggest Hariston in this role, he'd have to play LF when Walker starts and Byrnes would be a significant fielding upgrade. Dotel can either be the closer, or return to being the dominating setup man he was with Houston if we want to keep DempStar as a closer. Zito has been underperforming this year, but i liken his situation to the one Randy Johnson was in during his last season in Seattle. I don't think he wants to be in Oakland anymore, and i think he would fantastically fill in one of the gaps in our rotation created by injuries. Once Prior and Wood return, we can move Rusch back to the pen, giving us a great long relief option and another lefty in the pen. I love what we would get in this trade, my only reservation is what/how much the A's would be asking for to solve all the Cubs glaring weaknesses.

Oh, and to any Strongbad fans out there, i would submit "The Burninator" as our nickname for Byrnes, if he comes here. However, that's getting WAY ahead of the game, so i'll stop there...

. Once Prior and Wood return, we can move Rusch back to the pen,

I'd keep Rusch in the rotation and move Wood to the pen....and I'm being serious.

Shawngoldman

The A's are out of the race. Kotsay is going to be a free agent. Beanes gonna sell him.

Corey Patterson will NEVER be a star. by that, he will NEVER be an All-Star

In my book -- and just about everyone elses book -- he was an All Star in 2003.

And while we are at it why not get some thump off the bench. Matt Stairs, Damon Hollins, or Restovich could all be gotten for a couple bags of used balls. We need at least one good pinch hitter.

Beane is big on speed and defense because its currently undervalued. A common misconception of the Moneyball philosophy is that it is all about OBP and PC/AB. This isn't the case - its all about acquiring players that excel at an undervalued aspect of the game as shown by quantitative measures of that aspect. Moneyball was written in the wake of "chicks dig the long ball," when plate discipline was undervalued against plate power. Now that Moneyball has gotten attention, many teams are starting to understand that plate discipline is important. Thus, they are valuing OBP and PC/AB more. To stay ahead of the game, Moneyball teams must move onto the next thing, which is speed and defense, the currently most underrated aspects of the game. Part of the reason they are undervalued is the lack of quantitative measurements of these qualities. Thus, The A's and Red Sox have been working to develop better measurements of baserunning and defense. So whereas in most of the league "GMs dig the long ABs," Moneyball has moved on and now "Beane digs the long legs."

God help us if we get Byrnes.

Byrnes is a huge defensive liability. Living in Oakland and attending plenty of A's games, I can't say the number of times I've seen him take the long route to the ball, or start in the completely opposite direction of where he needs to be. It's painful. And he's no great force at the plate either.

Zito has been painful, but has developed a slider and is starting to look better. He might be worth getting. But Byrnes? Shoot me now if he's coming our way.

"If we can get Zito, Byrnes and maybe Dotel from the A's it would solve our greatest needs."

Dotel is hurt: "The bad news is that Octavio Dotel is still having no progress with his elbow and wants to see Jim Andrews. That will happen soon; perhaps we'll know more about a return date after that." - http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php...

Also, Beane didn't want to draft Eric Chavez, though I'd mention that.

ERIC, i couldn't find the article, it was on ESPN Article. I found this. I'd trust it, I made it.

IENPW,

I get Byrnes as part of the deal because according to our source (Al Yellon at bleedcubbieblue), one of the players is a guy mentioned previously in Cub trade talks. I think Kotsay makes sense as well for both teams - A's cut salary, Cubs get a lead-off man (and a better one than Byrnes). My inclusion of Byrnes has everything to do with Al's clues (or would you prefer B.C. Blue's clues?)

Why is everyone getting so hard over Zito?? He gives up ALOT of HR's pitching in a pitchers park. Can you imagine how many he'd give up at Wrigley? Wrigley Field is the last park he should pitch at and he is terribly overrated and probably a 5th starter. I'd rather have Rusch than Zito, for ALOT cheaper. The only way I'd go after Zito is for Mitre, straight up.


Hairston, Hill, and Murton to the A's
Zito, Dotel, and Byrnes for the Cubs.

As mentioned, Dotel is hurt. Plus, there's no way Beane would agree to it. Anyways, Todd Hallandsworth is better than Byrnes. So is Ben Greive. So is just about everyone.

Jim Hendry:

The talent is still there. He lost a bit on his fastball last season, but what I saw of him this year -- he's gained some back. Also, he had a good May, it could be a sign of things to come. After seeing what Roethschild has done with Rusch, give him Zito. It could be huge.

Yes, but the deal you mentioned doesn't include one of our starters like the lates thing said. As you and I both know, deals change rather abruptly. The deal you mentioned just isn't even. Beane could get more for Zito. Say the deal you mentioned happens, we get Byrnes, for what point? We lose our backup 2B, Hairston, to gain another OF to go into Dubois/Hollandsworth platoon. It just doesn't make since to include Byrnes in that state. Is Byrnes a good 4th OFer? Possibly, but let's quote: which may include one or more starting players. Who's a starter?

Mr Hendry:

I humbly submit these numbers to you:
9-10, 4.33 ERA, 1.288 WHIP.

Those were Randy Johnson's numbers in Seattle in 1998 before he was traded to the Houston Astros, where he did this:
10-1, 1.28 ERA, 0.984 WHIP.

I'm not saying Barry Zito is The Big Unit circa 1998, but the potential is there and if all he needs is a change of scenery and a new pitching coach, why not give it a shot?

By the way, i'm not suggesting the Cubs do the trade i posted above. I'm merely taking a wild stab at whatever it is that could be brewing in trade talks for the Cubs.

"If we can get Zito, Byrnes and maybe Dotel from the A's it would solve our greatest needs."

Lord help us all if Hendry does this.

Byrnes sucks. He does nothing well. If they want someone who can hustle and has zero tools they can sign me. Murton is a better player RIGHT NOW not to mention the other 4 corner outfielders who have been on the roster.

Zito's toast. His peripherals have caved in and if you put him in Wrigley he'll go Eric Milton and give up 30-40 HRs a year. He's toast and starting pitching is not the Cubs' major need.

Dotel, as mentioned, is hurt and his velocity is way down. I doubt he is going to be much help.

Zito, Byrnes, and Hairston could all count as starters in a way... Zito certainly is, and Byrnes and Hairston have been starters, albeit due to injuries.

And so if we have to pay more for this deal, who would it be? Aardsma and/or Williams from the Hawkins deal? Its possible Beane was in on the Giants trade all along, as he's been known to be one of the guys that motivates multi-team deals.'

By the way, i think Dotel's injur since it gives Huston Street a chance to prove he can put up the numbers in the 9th he's been putting up in other frames this year.

Scrolling through the comments, am I the ONLY person who caught Ruz's Warren G reference?

The Cubs have a number of guys performing well now who likely won't be part of their next good team, even if that's next year. I like the Pedroia deal mentioned above. I wouldn't mind seeing them package up Dempster and Rusch for the Phil's RHP Gavin Floyd or Ranger's SS Ian Kinsler.

i wouldnt be getting too hot about a beane/hendry trade happening any time soon as it is...hendry ran into that brick wall all offseason and the only thing CHC has to spare that OAK is hurting for is a 2nd baseman. they didnt want the bait then...

i heard a lotta noise weeks ago about NYM in heavy talks with CHC, but that seems to have cooled at the very least...

cleveland anyone? heh...

Beane has been accumalating young pitching, another thing he feels is undervalued right now. See the Kazmir trade for that matter. Jerome Williams fits that tab.

To the trada-hatas out there that think Zito's success is only a product of spacious Network Coliseum, look at Zito's road stats (2002-2005 splits, courtesy of ESPN.com):

3.68 ERA, 269 K, 138 BB, 32 HR in 307 H in 352.2 IP

That's pretty darn good, and those numbers could come down playing in the NL, especially with all the hitters that have never seen his nasty curve before. Even if they figure it out by the end of the year, Prior and Wood would be healthy by then and we could just not take the club option on his contract after the year is up.

I think Zito would be a great addition to this club, and i think Dotel would be as well. Byrnes and Murton i'm not as sold on, but the A's have supposedly been shopping OFs, so. Besides...

We speculate any stealing of Beane's property
And we damn good too
But you can't be any geek off the street,
Gotta be handy with the keys if you know what I mean, earn your keep!
Speculators...

Any other ideas? Anyone have any idea what getting Zito alone would cost us, much less Dotel and Murton/Byrnes?

I like the Pedroia deal mentioned above. I wouldn't mind seeing them package up Dempster and Rusch for the Phil's RHP Gavin Floyd or Ranger's SS Ian Kinsler.

Why would the Phillies trade Floyd, or the Rangers trade Kinsler? The only reason Pedroia seems doable is because the Red Sox have Hanley Ramirez and then guys like Lora behind him to go along with Pedroia.

That's pretty darn good, and those numbers could come down playing in the NL, especially with all the hitters that have never seen his nasty curve before.

Look it his splits this year:

Road 0-4 5.57 ERA.
2004 Road 5-6 4.77 ERA.

Both considerably down, not to mention his G/F has been under 1.00 just about every season. The reason I want him, is because I think Roethschild is one of the best in the business and can turn him around. Just look at Rusch. Rusch is not that talented like Clement and Dempster were, but he's been great since being a Cub.

Any other ideas? Anyone have any idea what getting Zito alone would cost us, much less Dotel and Murton/Byrnes?

Ryan Harvey and Jerome Williams?
Matt Murton and Jerome Williams?

Was it just the Mets scouting Peoria? It's possible that Beane likes Aardsma and one of our rookie relievers.

IENPW,

I think your trade fits the bill as well as mine does. We'll just have to wait and see...

"Hairston + Williams + prospect for Johnny Damon.

Or at least that's my dream."

Patterson for Ichiro. That's my dream.

I just think adding Byrnes w/o subtracting Dubois or Hollandsworth is overkill.

I've been using "The Burninator" for Burnitz all year.

http://a425.v8384d.c8384.g.vm.akamaistream.ne...

(those of you who take the time to copy/paste will be rewarded)

can i get an exchange on this reward...cash, a trophy, maybe a few sticks of gum?

zito has been garbage for 2 years now

Clearly, it's time to give up on Patterson. Not only do the Cubs have many better options in the system, but there are dozens of superior players available cheap. Furthermore, no player Patterson's age (25) has ever shown improvement beyond that point.

re: post 72

was listening to Warren G not reward enough? hahaha

zito has been garbage for 2 years now

Really? If average is garbage, then he's garbage.

Furthermore, no player Patterson's age (25) has ever shown improvement beyond that point.

What!? Hitters typical peak at 27.

the previous comment is so flawed, i wont respond

i still dont see why any of you think the nationals would even think about trading wilky. he's the face of the franchise...i live in dc and hes really the biggest name guy here. he's good, young and still pretty cheap. they are over .500 and getting a new owner...frank robinson hates guys who have crappy obp's (thats why they gave up on endy chavez...also he sucked) but for washington, a patterson + spect for wilkerson wouldnt make any sense. the stats this year might not prove wilky is better, but he was 30/30 last year and is just in his prime.

i ment 72

well, if garbage is average, then hes garbage

look at his adjusted numbers.

okay i'm not exactly an inside source.. but i will be attending the cub game this thursday in SD. seated right behind home plate. i will let you guys know if i run into billy beane, paul depodesta, doug dascenzo or jessica alba.

re: post #2
Waiting for Patterson (good movie title btw)

the stats this year might not prove wilky is better, but he was 30/30 last year and is just in his prime.

32 HR, 13 SB.

look at his adjusted numbers.

You mean his ERA+ in 2004? 105?

eagle eye hendry
t-c-r inspirations
which of them comes true?

zito? or damon?
matsui or cameron?
no more patterson

anyone for floyd?
blecch, me too. but maybe huff.
i heart adam dunn.

adam dunn would make me jizz in my pants.

Somebody theorized that Zito could go all Eric Milton in Wrigley...would a more apt comparison be Shawn Estes, with that big curveball of Zito's? I mean, Zito's has been a ton more effective than Estes' over his career, but if Zito's not himself, I can visualize it landing on Waveland just like Estes' often did. Memo to Hendry: please avoid.

Byrnes hardly seems worthwhile, and the buzz on Dotel's injury does not seem encouraging...so if any of this would mean losing Murton, I say yech, but then I'm just a longtime lurker.

To those who are thinking a Cubbie change of scenery could help out Zito or others like him, I would ask for a list of players who came to the Cubs and performed beyond expectations.

I think the other list would be much longer.

The Cubs are not the Braves.

NEIFI BItCH

cubs win, howard stern time

Ironically, I just posted that I had a hunch that Hendry would spin the guys we got for Hawkins to Oakland for Zito... Then I read all these postings.I don't see us trading Hairston. I don't see us trading Murton. I've grown tired of Cpat and I'm guessing Dusty has too-but I don't see him going. I could see us trading DuBois to Oakland, however. Defense and Pitching, then hitting. He is "The Butcher"...I do like Eli Marrerro. Last off season I thought the Cubs would trade Farnsworth to the Braves for him. He could be the third catcher, making all the Jose Macias haters very happy. He's a solid hitter, not having a solid year.
Aardsma, Williams, DuBois for Zito and Kielty. Lets not forget that Cpat wants to hit 6th. Burnitz should hit 6th. Barrett and DuBois are natural 6 hitters. This team has too many 6th place hitters....I'm also of the belief that Dusty likes Dempster as his closer. No more trade talk about closers.

How about Hill, Sing and whichever of the TripleA morass of starters or current Cub relievers (except Wuertz)TB prefers for Huff and Baez? Then release Macias.

That would give both organizations what they're looking for, I think.

Why would the Phillies trade Floyd, or the Rangers trade Kinsler? The only reason Pedroia seems doable is because the Red Sox have Hanley Ramirez and then guys like Lora behind him to go along with Pedroia.

Floyd was sent down after getting belted around earlier this year and the Phils are built as a win-now club. I wonder if they might consider a solid lefty starter and a shiny reliever for him.

I can't see the Rangers moving Michael Young or Soriano, so Kinsler is just wasting time in AAA. They could definitely use the pitching.

RE: Patterson. I can't see them moving him until if/when Pie is ready. That would put him in Chicago through '06

Adam,

If you were referring to my comments that Womack is awful and Marrero & Co. stink, then too bad. Ill stand by those comments anyday. Those players ARE awful and stink and I dont want them on my favorite team. We already have Macias, Wilson and Perez, and they all stink too. In fact, I hope the Cubs get rid of all the stinky, awful players they have and get better ones.

Furthermore, no player Patterson's age (25) has ever shown improvement beyond that point.

What!? Hitters typical peak at 27.

Dude--time to have that sarcasm detector serviced.

Latest rumor I've heard is:

Zito & Byrnes

for

Dubois, Murton and ???

Depending on who the ??? is, I like the trade. I really think Eric Brynes will never be more than a fourth outfielder, but he's a pretty good one of those. The only problem with this trade is that it gives the starting LF job back to Hollandsworth or, at best, Byrnes, which doesn't improve the team.

"the stats this year might not prove wilky is better, but he was 30/30 last year and is just in his prime.

32 HR, 13 SB."

whoops i could have sworn he as 30/30 but i guess not :-/

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