Trade Deadline Open Thread

Use this thread to discuss all the rumors that are flying around as Sunday's non-waiver trading deadline ticks ever closer...
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Sorry if this has been previously posted, but from Rotoworld:

The Providence Journal's Sean McAdam says there are five teams involved in talks with the Red Sox regarding Manny Ramirez and that the three-team trade with the Mets and Rays is the least likely scenario right now.
McAdam said two other NL clubs and two AL clubs, one the White Sox, are looking at Ramirez. We're guessing the Cubs and maybe the Dodgers are the NL clubs. The Angels would make sense as the other AL team. Jul. 29 - 9:54 pm et

Also, from ESPN, about the 3-team trade for ManRam:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

"I don't know if it's completely dead," said an official of one of the three teams. "But it's hit a roadblock Ö unless someone has some other thoughts."

I'm willing to bet that it's the D-Rays who set up that roadblock.

Man, I love this time of year.

actually the roadblock looks like it's on the Red Sox & Mets part according to the article....

The articles goes on to say the Red Sox were weary of trading 2 top-tier prospects and Ramirez for just Huff/Cameron and wanted "more pieces" from the Mets, who then squashed the whole thing.

it goes on to say that the Mets were going to assume all of Ramirez's contract and were hesitant on that as well.

I thought the DRays worked out like bandits on the original deal, they probably couldn't get the deal signed soon enough.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

Torii Hunter out 4-6 weeks with a torn tendon in his left ankle. Will they be buying or selling now?

"I'm willing to bet that it's the D-Rays who set up that roadblock."

I am watching BBTN and olney is saying its the Redsox holding it up. They want more than Cameron and Huff. Also Bigbie is going to Colorado for Byrnes. What a deal for Bigbie-Holliday-Hawpe is the best young outfield in baseball.

I posted this trade idea on the previous thread.

Cubs:
Wickman
Sauerbeck
Millwood

Indians:
Mitre
Pinto
Moore
Dopriak
Wellemeyer

I heard talk today about a deal that would bring Alfonso Soriano to the Cubs, with the Cubs putting him in left field. I could see a Patterson/Mitre/reliever for Soriano swap.

Mitterwald --

Your points about the 4 man rotation in the playoffs and defining our true goal for this year are very important. In my opinion, we would be nuts to give up good prospects for a starting pitcher for the 2005 run because:

(1) While we are in it, our odds of making the playoffs aren't great due to the number of teams in the race. There is too much luck involved, and we have too many games against STL. So, while it will be fun to watch things develop the rest of the year, I don't want to mortgage the future to improve our odds only marginally.

(2) Williams and Hill are going to start about 40% of the rest of our games. Therefore, if we do end up winning the wildcard, it's almost certain that at least one of them will have emerged as either hot or reliable. (That is, if both of them suck, we ain't going anywhere.) So, if we do make the playoffs, our 4 man rotation will have revealed itself naturally.

(3) Due to the glut of teams in contention (by my count all but 5 in the NL can legitimately consider themselves in contention for a playoff spot), the market values of trade talent are inflated. This isn't the year to make a deal with a "seller."

Yeah the Redsox realize Huff and Cameron still dont replace Manny Ramirez. Well like Duhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Olney is saying 10% chance of Soriano getting traded. Thank God.

I thought Huff was not going to get traded (at elast taht is what some on here said)?? Then TB is all of a sudden willing to trade him and Baez for 4 prsopects?

"I thought Huff was not going to get traded (at elast taht is what some on here said)?? Then TB is all of a sudden willing to trade him and Baez for 4 prsopects?"

Manny, that was when in Huff was not hitting and they were asking for the moon. Pettit and Sanchez are the two best AA level pitching prosecpts in baseball. Shopach would step in and be there everyday catcher. Millidge is a stud (Rob had a good anlysis of him on today's game thread).

Eric Byrnes packs his bags again, as the Rockies send him to Baltimore in exchange for Larry Bigbie.

See this is what Manny does, twist the facts of the conversation.

Everyone was in a hissy fit all winter and during spring training that Huff was on his way to the Cubs. I said over and over he will not be traded this winter or during spring training. People laughed, people mocked me, and yet Huff still remained in a Tampa Bay uniform.

The chances increase with any trade deadline. But again I will state that Tampa is in no real hurry of moving him because they DONT have to move him. He isnt a salary burden by any means.

I know your trying to sound like a know it all Manny but you were dead wrong during the Winter and you were dead wrong during spring training. I guess every 3 months if you keep saying Huff will be traded your bound to predict it eventually. And a broken watch gets the time correct twice a day.

Besides Tampa isn't considering parting with him for a bunch of nothing. Are the Cubs going to trade Felix Pie for him? I told you then and I will tell you now. If you want to even consider trading for Huff you better start with Pie and Guzman (though Guzmans value is dropping fast lately). Many of the posters scoffed at that notion. The ridiculous offers that were common during the Huff frenzy was Kyle Farnsworth being the center piece along with David Kelton as our tempting package for Huff.

Then and now you needed to offer up TOP prospects or a MLB ready player and some mid grade prospects to even get your foot in the door. It seems Tampa's value level has been met with package of prospects they like this week. Sounds exactly what I talked about all winter and spring.

However nothing has gone through, so I wouldn't count your eggs before they are hatched.

Hey thanks for those brief explanations of the possible prospects in the deal ChiFan3887.

Again, Tampa would be getting some awesome prospects. The Cubs would/could never match that kind of talent. So whats the big deal? Our organization wouldn't part with that kind of talent so why the still huffing and puffing over Huff?

Go back to swooning over Adam Dunn, he is the flavor of the month now.

Hello cubbies,
I am a die hard cub fan who has been following the cubs for the last 4 years with ardent passion. I am very inexperienced as a cub fan compared to a majority of the cub fans around the world.
I ask the question before, during and after every ball game ..do the cubs really have the potential to make it past this game and I always come up with the same answer..probably not.

I think the cub fans are the greatest among all the fans spanning across all the sports in the world. We believe in our cubs. I think this belief is what making our team go that extra mile and do better than their potential.

I have no doubt that this season and at least the past 2 seasons the players have been trying extra hard, often performing much above their potential to win these ball games. But we haven't seen a world championship for almost 100 years now. I find it sorry for the players when the arduous fans pick on the players for underperformance. But are they really underperforming??? I think no.

The only thing that has been carrying this ball club is the belief thats so hardened in our hearts that we can see our cubs win a world series in our life times.

Even this year I think the team has over performed above its practical potential. We have a four man rotation (unless you really want to count jerome willams/Rich Hill) that we can count on. Again williams and Hill have been performing out of their skins but they can't simply get us a WC let alone take us to play offs. The anamoly is not in thier inherent potential but simply in their inexperience. Aside Lee and Ramirez our offense is AAA if not AA. Again we should forget the fact Lee is having the best season of his life. Where would be if Lee would have been a mere human this season?

The tribune company time and again have taken advantage of the emotions of us cub fans and continued to put forward mediocre teams and the management (Dusty baker et.al) aren't even worth mentioning. Some one earlier pointed out correctly that as long as we throng the stadiums, pay 150 bucks for those fatherday weekends at wrigley and fill the tribune money bins why would they care.

Now they want us to believe that a recently rehabbed Nomar, injury prone wood and back from tommy john williamson are as good as any trade and I think thats total humiliation of the fans. Do you really want to count on these three to take you to the play offs???

I think as long as the ardent desire to win doesnt appear in the higher echelons of the cub heirarchy we will continue to loose ball games.

Dayal

Dayal,

It's always nice to see a new poster. Most of us share your love for the Cubs and want to see good things happen.

However, I think you're being overly dramatic. The Cubs have the highest payroll in the National League. The Tribune Co. is spending more on the team than it would have to if profitability were the only goal.

There have been a lot of intelligent posts on this and the previous thread re: whether making a trade now makes sense. Some GM's will make a trade just to make one, but Hendry isn't in that group (thank God).

Ah, good point, Rob G. I guess I should have read the whole article before opining about it.

CHIFAn:
"Manny, that was when in Huff was not hitting and they were asking for the moon."

Oh, so maybe the TB should of listened to those of us that said trading Huff earlier in the season made sense. But what can you expect from teh worst franchise in baseball.

Perhaps I can redeem myself by saying that Buster Olney reports that all teams in the proposed ManRam deal have agreed that if no deal is done by noon tomorrow (Saturday), then the whole thing is dead.

"There have been a lot of intelligent posts on this and the previous thread re: whether making a trade now makes sense. Some GM's will make a trade just to make one, but Hendry isn't in that group (thank God)."

433: I TOTALLY agree with you...Hendry is very disciplined and IMO, he is one of the sharpest GMs out there.

Buster Olney also said matter-of-factly:

"He (Aubrey Huff) will be going somewhere by Sunday night."

"He (Adam Dunn) will be the hottest name on the trade market this winter."

I personally hope he is dead wrong on both accounts.

Talk Is Cheap, but Acquiring a Slugger Isn't

[From Saturday's New York Times]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/30/sports/base...

{...Although the Mets are long shots to acquire Soriano, they believe he is going to end up somewhere other than Arlington. The Chicago Cubs have talked about Soriano to bolster their two-man offense of Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez. If the Cubs can complement their stellar starting rotation with a more formidable lineup, they could contend for the wild-card spot.

The Mets also believe they are one marquee hitter and perhaps a reliever away from the wild card. In order to get Ramirez, the Mets would most likely have to surrender their 2003 first-round pick, Lastings Milledge, a year after giving up their 2002 first-round pick, Scott Kazmir.

"I'm open to everything, but what we acquire has to be better than what we have," Minaya said, declining to comment on specific proposals. "There's always a chance whenever G.M.'s are talking that something will happen."...}

And a paper out of Pittsburgh is reporting the Cardinals are actively seeking Matt Lawton.

I for one actually think the Cubs are still very much in this thing, and I also think they ought to be making a move to try and win now.

I understand the value of not mortaging the future, etc., but can we not follow the Cards example? Look at the core of the team they've built. With the exception of Pujols, who is a once-in-a-lifetime talent anyway, hardly any of their team comes from within. Rolen, Edmonds, Walker, Sanders, Mulder, Carpenter, Suppan, Izzy, Marquis, Eckstein, Grudzy, King, Tavarez --they've all come from outside places, and the Cards have dealt away minor leaguers to get them.

Or how about the Red Sox? Manny, Damon, Nixon, Mueller, Renteria, Schilling, Clement, Wade Miller, Foulke, Ortiz -- again, outside guys.

The secret is dealing off could-be stars for established players. The Cubs have a good enough system and the resources financially that they can and should be able to get almost anybody they need. If they don't, then it's inexcusable. If the Cards can go out and get Walker a year ago, and Mulder in the offseason, the Cubs should be willing and able to make equally big moves. Why do the Red Sox and Yankees win every year? Because they are in constant competition with one another.

So what if one or two of the guys who are traded away end up becoming stars. Will they be the only stars in the league? Will there be no other good players to acquire in the future?

The Cubs shouldn't be afraid that Felix Pie maybe might possibly if all things turn out right become a star. They should be trying to build year-to-year to compete with the class of the division, the Cards.

the rangers reportedly asked for fleix pie and rich hill for soriano, to which hendry laughed into the fone and called dusty in to the room and said, "you gotta hear what this jackass just said.." john hart then hung up the phone

i hear this from i think buster onley

Hendry is a very good GM whose wisdom is seen in the trades/FA signings he DOESN'T make as well as for the deals he has made. As far as I'm concerned Hendry's only 2 mistakes are:
1) signing Dusty Baker
2) giving Dusty the gift of Jose Macias

I agree that Hendry is a good GM. In fact, I had nothing but good to say about him in my most recent article at RotoAmerica. I talked about his ability to get the better of almost any deal (A-Ram, Barrett, D-Lee) and successfully go against the grain (how many people were all over him about the Burnitz signing, and yet look at Beltran and Maggs right now). He's run into some bad luck with injuries and some bad managing from Dusty, and that's handicapped the team. However. He can't sit back and feel sorry for himself; he has to fix things. That's his job. If the Cards needed bullpen help right now, they'd go out and get it. If they needed another OF, they'd get that too (and probably will before the deadline).

Hendry should do the same.

Why would the Rangers ask for anything less than Felix Pie and Rich Hill? They know Soriano's value at the position he plays is worth alot. They are not going to just give him away.

What do you expect Alfonso Soriano to be worth in a trade? Dave Kelton and Ronny Cedeno? I am simply amazed that people think talent comes from nothing.

I am not a fan of getting Soriano, but I know he is going to take some nice players from our farm system to get him. Thats the price you pay for a player that might help you now.

Rotoworld, combining all these beat writers looking to get cheap copy, has, by my count, 6 or 7 teams besides Boston involved in potential Manny trades. Seems excessive. The Manny and Huff and Soriano rumors have consumed all the attention, so hopefully we'll get some pleasant surprises in the small deals doubtlessly being negotiated but not sexy enough for media play.

I wouldn't mind if the Cubs are inactive, as all of MLB seems to be a sellers' market. If they come up with some cheap bullpen help that they'll still have under control for a while, great. I'm happy as long as they don't add any hacktastic bats and (of course) take the rest of this series.

This should be a fun two months, especially if the Cubs and Astros are still near the top at the end of the year for Clemens, Oswalt, Prior, Zambrano et al to have a 7-game pitchoff at the end.

===

Justin, I'd point to a couple factors that make this year unique.

I don't expect the Cubs to be sellers, but it would make an awful lot of sense. The core of the team isn't going anywhere (though Lee may never be quite this good again) and they could make an absolute killing simply because barely any other teams are selling. Teams would pay princely sums for Maddux and Burnitz. Though I don't know enough about farm systems MLB-wide, I'm sure the Cubs could pick up some nifty middle infield prospects.

Also, I think they're many pieces removed from being anything signifciantly above a "be there and luck out" contender this year. We're down to two bigtime starters and there are gaping holes in left and the pen. There's no way the Cubs can fix all of these problems this weekend.

There aren't any Rolen or Walker types available on this market. There's (possibly) an aging Manny Ramirez with a gigantic contract, Aubrey Huff, who's shaping up to be an expensive proposition, and Soriano, who's barely, if at all, an upgrade.

Finally, the elephant in the room is that the Cubs absolutely need to devleop in-house position players if they want to keep Lee, Aramis, Zambrano, and Prior in the fold. Someone like Pie who's showing abundant promise can't be let go for anything less than a serious shot at a championship. With no decent OFs on the FA market, they'll gave to come through a trade, if they come at all.

I've blabbed on way too long. Suffice to say that this just isn't the right time for the Cubs to spend richly on relatively marginal talent when there's a very good chance they won't even make the playoffs, let alone do damage after getting there. I'd be in favor of trying to pluck Lawton, if he comes cheaply, but that's about it.

Having said all that, it's more than likely something comes totally out of left field (har!) and takes us all by surprise. Hopefully it's a pleasant one.

I've heard the "Hendry is great for the deals he DOESNT make" a lot...

For the highest, or second highest, payroll in the NL, the Cubs should be able to compete in the highest 10% of the league. They aren't right now...

There are deals I wish Hendry had did, that he didnt. I think he has about a B grade for his work thus far. While he may have snagged ARam, he didnt build a bullpen, he didnt sign some of the better FA aquisitions, and he didnt pry guys like Walker or Mulder away from their teams.

There's also the Dusty factor, but I won't even start there. I would fire Dusty tomorrow if I could....

No wait, I'd fire him tonight....

The FA market is extremely thin. I think Hendry has to ask himself, "what are other teams going to do?" Well, the Cards may pull of a deal, the Sox, and then who else? Nobody else is on the radar besides the O's. What do the Cubs care if the Red Sox, white sox or O's get better? Who cares if the Cards get better? we're chasing Houston right now, bottom line.

The team that we have with Williamson and Garciaparra should be good enough to win. I don't understand why the cubs seem fascinated with another bat when they really need relief help and possibly a SP. These Soriano rumors seem ridiculous, especially when he refused to play outfield with two squads already.

The problem with the cubs this year has been a lack of consistency. They don't play fundamental baseball. However, when they do (see the Marlins series in FL) they are as good as any team in the NL.

I"ve said this before but I'll say it again. Why isn't anybody talking about the Nats or Phillies or even the Mets. because the real talent lies with FLA, Hou, and the cubs. I think it'll be a dogfight between those clubs until the end and I still like our chances. Baker's brainfarts and all.

Stop saying the Cubs have the highest payroll in the NL as if a good chunk of it isn't being payed to the Orioles' rightfielder. Also a slice going to the Giants' set-up man. If all of it was going to guys on the actual team it would be a good argument for Cub success now. Unfortunately, the Trib refused to overpay for this one year and we've got a team with some holes. A lot was also put on the roll of the dice that Nomar could play a whole season and that JoBo might return to '03 form. Neither worked out and now we're fighting tooth and nail to beat sub-.500 teams at home all week.

The only thing that could improve this team is substantially upgrade in the bullpen. I really don't mind to see other teams over-spend for margin players.

I basically go along with Ron Galt's post above. I really, really hope that the Cubs don't make a trade for Soriano, a very overrated player, who would not help the Cubs nearly as much a playing Murton regularly since Murton's strengths, OBP and working the count deep, addresses the Cubs biggest offensive weaknesses (low OBP and failing to go deep into counts against pitchers - as far as slugging is concerned the Cubs are near the top of league in homeruns). Soriano, who is almost 30 as Rob points out, would only aggravate the Cubs' offensive weaknesses.

Scott's post in #22 above shows the problem of perception or reputation in making decisions. The N.Y. Times percieves the Cubs to have a stellar rotation and that they need a slugging outfielder. But as I posted on an earlier string, the Cubs starting rotation, when compared to Houston's, St. Louis', and Milwaukee's is not that stellar. Basically its two guys, Prior and Zambrano, and three guys you can't count on to keep you in the game or from going to the bullpen early. The bullpen, although not as bad as it was in April and May, is still weak compared to the competition. If Hendry makes a trade, I hope it is to add pitching.

P.S. I do think that this might be the time to trade Corey Patterson before the rest of baseball recognizes that he is a bust. Perhaps in the AL he could have a short hot spell before the pitchers there learn what the pitchers in the NL and PCL-AA have learned, that you don't have to throw him a strike and he will swing all day at neck high and higher fastballs. Only Mannytrillo dreams of an outfield of Patterson and Soriano. seck

Did you say bullpen help?

The Royals are shopping Andy Sisco...even though they non-deny deny it.

"Contenders are pressing the Royals for bullpen help, making runs not only at the relatively established Jeremy Affeldt and Mike MacDougal, but also rookies Andy Sisco and Ambiorix Burgos. "There's a feeling I'm shopping these guys. That's not the case," G.M. Allard Baird says. "I'm shopping for a young corner outfielder who fits with our direction. I recognize I may have to give up something at the major league level. I'm willing to do that."

Since Dusty thinks Murton is a fluke (ask Phil Rogers), maybe we could trade Matt for Andy.

What a great trade.

Jason DuBois (.243 .301 .475 169 AB) got a start in LF yesterday and responded by hitting his 9th (24 RBI) and going 3/5.

Meanwhile the winner of the Cubs left field derby Todd Hollandsworth (5 HR 29 RBI) (.252 .304 .393 242 AB) has 2 hits in his last 19.

Let me get this straight - in return for Aubrey Huff and Danys Baez, the Devil Rays were going to receive Lastings Milledge, Yusmeiro Petit, Anibal Sanchez and Kelly Shoppach? Holy cow, making out like bandits indeed, Rob.

Depending upon the amount of cash that would have been involved in the deal, either the Red Sox or the Mets are absolutely crazy. I suspect that the cash would have been relatively little, and that therefore it's the Mets that need their heads examined. Manny Ramirez is a big bat, but you just can't trade Mike Cameron and your two best prospects for him (and a sucky reliever like Danys Baez) when you take into account his enormous contract through the end of time and his age related declining. That is, after all, the reason why the Red Sox aren't putting up much of an objection to Ramirez's yelps of "I want to be traded", which roughly translate as "I miss Pedro".

Cubswinthepennant - I wouldn't ask Phil Rogers for directions to the beach if I was literally on fire.

The thing Buster Olney (and he is a bit of a Buster, most of the time) said last night that I believe is that many of the teams involved in trade talks right now are just asking for the moon. Hill and Pie are not a fair trade for a guy like Soriano, whose value is dropping every year. For that, if you're talking prospects, you're talking ones further down the road, like in A ball, where the uncertainty is a little higher.

All,
I agree with with the opinions posted above about how we need not make any trade but I dont agree that we dont have a shot for a play off berth. We are 3 games behind in the WC race and like what 11.5 behind in the division. Now if we cant overcome a 3 game deficit to snatch the WC what guarantee is that we can do any better next season. Its like I am getting a C this sem and If I study hard I can get a B..but what the heck forget about it and I am gonna become an einstein next year and will get an A. Bottom line the attitude should be its now or never. Who knows whats to going to happen tommorow. Now if we are totally out of the race by mere math thats a whole different story. But not making a trade now just because of our sick feeling that we cannot repeat what other teams have done in the previous years is wrong in my opinion.

-D

The more I think about it, we might as well trade all our prospects for vets. Why not, they will never play while Dusty puts them on the bench to "do their time" while awesome vet superstars Macias, Hollandsworth, and Neifi tear up the place.

Obviously tounge-in-cheek, but I do wonder what the point to prospects are when they don't get to play. Is Murton a fluke? If so, I hope we call up about 5 more flukes like him from the minors. Does Cedeno have a glove, speed, and seem to at least have an idea what the strikezone is and more importantly isn't?

The more I think about the team, the more I realize the first thing they need to do to get better is to get Baker to change his ways and to play younger guys and not stick with vets so long. Since this isn't going to happen, getting a replacement for Baker is the next thing. The Marlins found a way in 2003 to fire a manager, get another, and come back to win the wild card and then the World Series. It can be done...

How would any of you guys feel about trading Maddux straight up for Brian Giles.

He's a great OBP guy, the Padres need MLB pitching, and Maddux gets to live at home.

Don't get me wrong, I love Maddux, and I love seeing him as a Cub. It does open up another hole in the rotation, which would have to be addressed via another trade.

The $ work out pretty good, and it keeps STL from getting Giles.

The Mets have reservations about the Manny deal because they would have to pay the rest of the contract. John Hill is right the team that wins that deal is the Devil Rays. If the only reason Manram wants out of Boston is privacy where in the hell is he going to find it in NYC, and he is likely too pull something else once the NYC press does something to him. How in the hell could Theo think for a second that Cameron and Huff are equal value for Manram, Sanchez, Shoppach. Yes, I know he is a distraction, but I wouldn't trade him as a salary dump unless he set the clubhouse or Fenway itself on fire.

This Tribune article focuses mainly on Soriano and the player I no longer allow myself to talk about, but the overall impression is that Hendry may well stand pat.

Son of God (aka, Derrek Lee),

While I'm sure the Pads would love to get their hands on Maddux, I don't seem them doing anything to trade Giles. In the anemic NL West, they still have the best shot of any team to win it, despite an equally anemic offense. If the Pads do make the playoffs, Giles will be the key to their success as he is the key to their offense. I'm not saying I don't like the deal (though it does leave us with one fewer starting pitcher), I just don't think it will happen.

From cubs.com:
"Wood threw on the side Friday at Wrigley, and will throw a simulated game on Sunday before he's ready to begin a rehab assignment, most likely at West Tenn."

The Peoria Chiefs are in my home town this weekend to play. I was at the game last nite and the PA announcer said about 6-8 times that Kerry Wood would be making an appearance on the mound Sunday.

Well, I don't think it would happen either, but apparently, the Cards are interested in him. The Padres are asking for starting MLB pitching in return. I figured the Cubs could supply what they're looking for.

It does kind of remind me of the moves the Cubs did in the late 60's and early 70's - they would fill a gaping hole by opening another hole just as big.

Back to the Cubs. Why is Hendry looking for bats when we need bullpen arms. Yes I know were getting Wood and Williamson back, but this pen needs 4 changes not 2. We could use a LOOGY to help out Ohman, and either a closer or reliable set-up guy to fix the 8th. Novoa has been good, but has the potential to go bad sometime soon. Asking Wood or Williamson to do it is unfair since one hasn't done it before and the other is coming off major arm surgery. If we can find a decent starter at a resonable price we could use that two. Hill is most likely has reached a career high in IP and is a 2 pitch pitcher. We could do these moves from within the organization. Flip-flop Rusch and Hill, DFA Remlinger and call-up Van Buren. Then when Wood and Williamson come back send Mitre and Wuertz down.

The Yanks picked up Embree.

Love those DFAs.

Some other notes from the game about the Baby Cubs after seeing them in person last nite:
1.Eric Patterson appears to be much less hacktastic than big brother. He has a more open stance. His swing is not really compact, but it's much shorter and more controlled than Korey's. He does not have the long looping uppercut and does not look to be going all or nothing on every pitch. In fact in one at bat with two strikes he actually shortened up and tried to make contact. He looks taller and lankier than Korey, but I'm guessing Korey would win a race to first base. He also showed pretty good range and a strong arm in the field.

2. Ryan Harvey appears to be completely befuddled by the breaking ball. His first AB was called strike fastball, horrible swing at curve, horrible swing at curve. His next three AB's he popped up to infielders all appeared to be on breaking balls or maybe change-ups--definitely off-speed. Finally in his last AB after the game was well out of hand he got a fastball and ripped it into left for and RBI single. He didn't get many chances in the field. He did make a good throw to the plate that should have cut down a runner but the catcher couldn't make the play.
3. Joe Simonkatis looked very good a shortstop and very average at the plate.
4. Jesse Estrada was the starter and he got hammered. Runners all over the place in every inning.
5. I don't know who was playing third (not listed on the Chiefs website) but he was horrible. 3 errors, I would have given him a 4th and he also bobbled another easy one but recovered to get the out.
6. Bo Flowers also appeared to have trouble with the breaking ball. Maybe the Wizards pitcher just had a great one. It was hard to tell from my seat. I couldn't get a good idea how much it was dropping.

Based on what I saw last nite, I'd say we could see Patterson in few years. Harvey and Flowers look to need lots of development.

I think the big deal would break down (or broke down, if the talks have broken down) into three simple trades.

1. Manny Ramirez for Mike Cameron.

Assuming that there's no money exchanging hands, I think this is a pretty fair deal. Ramirez is, of course, the better outfielder, comfortably, but you've got to consider the small matter of $57m too - that's the difference between what's left on Ramirez's contract and what's left on Cameron's. Given that, I'm really not sure why the Red Sox are reportedly asking for more out of the Mets. After all, it wasn't so long ago that the Red Sox were prepared to let another team have Ramirez for the price of a waiver claim as long as they took on the entire contract. Now, with Ramirez having done nothing but gotten older and his game having started to slip a bit, the Mets are offering to take on the entire contract and send the Red Sox a very decent outfielder who's reasonably priced too, and it's not enough? Besuming.

2. Aubrey Huff for Anibal Sanchez and Kelly Shoppach

Again, I think this is a reasonably fair deal, although perhaps the Devil Rays ought to perhaps be asking for a little more, for while they need a catcher, Kelly Shoppach really isn't that much of a prospect at the position. Anibal Sanchez is undisputedly one of the best pitching prospects in the game though, and Aubrey Huff is having a down year, so right now I think the deal is reasonably fair. I'm not sure though whether it makes the most sense for the Devil Rays to deal Huff now while his value has dipped, but if they need to in order for...

3. Danys Baez for Lastings Milledge and Yusmeiro Petit

...to go through, then it simply has to be done. Remember last year's Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir trade between these two teams? Yeh, well this is worse, much much worse. Danys Baez is just as sucky and overrated a pitcher as Victor Zambrano, only he's a reliever and thus throws a whole lot less innings, which is good, I suppose, because it minimises his suckiness and overratedness somewhat. Anyway, in return we're talking about a five-tool outfielder with a considerable ceiling, the Mets' equivalent of Felix Pie, and we're talking about Yusmeiro Petit, who while he isn't quite the prospect that Kazmir was, could still be a very good third starter for a very long time. The reason why the entire trade is or would have been a huge win for the Devil Rays and a huge loss for the Mets has nothing to do with Manny Ramirez, but everything to do with this exchange here.

Levine saying Rangers deal would be Walker, Mitre, and Wellemeyer for Soriano. and that Hendry wants Dunn and Kearns. If the Soriano went down i imagine he would play CF and Hairston would go to 2nd.

opening day line-up
1. C-pat 2.Walker 3. Nomar 4. Aram 5. Burny 6. Dlee 7. Holly 8. Barrett

Line-up with Soriano and Murton
1. Hairston 2. Nomar 3. Dlee 4. Aram 5. Burny 6. Soriano 7. Barrett 8. Murton

The 3 things I thought this team needed to concentrate on was OBP, speed, and D here is how the Soriano and opening day line-up stack up.
OBP
Walker>Hairston C-patSoriano Holly=Murton

That trade is actully beniful even if Soriano plays 2nd it is a tie with Walker in those 3 aspects.

That last part got screwed up and I should have hit the preview button. What I was trying to say is that Soriano for C-pat is a draw in terms of OBP, speed, and D. In those 3 aspects of the game Hairston and Murton are improvements over Walker and Holly. The trade would be a improvement over the everday line-up from opening day and looking at it that way my view of a Soriano trade goes from no to neutral. The key of this trade would be yesterday being the day Murton became our starting LF.

ChiFan--"Levine saying Rangers deal would be Walker, Mitre, and Wellemeyer for Soriano."

Bleh. That's horrible. Pass.

Interesting article over at SI.com about the relationship between Boggs and Sandberg, particularly their lifelong love for the game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/basebal...

One thing that hit me particularly was Boggs' slow start. He sounds a lot like a certain, scrawny high-OBP/low-power player in a power position that is currently on the Cubs. Here's an excerpt:

"Boggs, who batted left-handed, was a scrawny kid who didn't attract much attention even though he finished his senior year at Plant High in Tampa, Fla., on a 26-for-33 tear. He was drafted in the seventh round by the Red Sox and then spent five-plus seasons in the minors.

Although he won one batting title and finished among the top four hitters four other times, the Sox didn't even invite him to spring training after he barely missed winning the batting title while playing third base for Triple-A Pawtucket in 1980.

"The only thing that I was told by the Red Sox was that I don't hit for power and that I play in a power position and that I wasn't going to be able to play in the big leagues if I don't hit for power," said Boggs, who also played for the Yankees and Tampa Bay, retiring with 3,010 hits. "I forced their hand in 1981 when I led the league in hitting and wasn't called up in September. They had to make a decision on me there."

I'm just saying...

Is the upgrade of Soriano over Walker at 2B, taking everything into account, worth the salary upgrade and the players we would need to give up?

Even if Soriano moves to CF and Hairston to 2B, the question still applies, since the net/net offensive exchange is Walker for Soriano.

I think the answer is no.

And I'll even pose the same question for a hypothetical Walker-for-Soriano deal, straight up. Walker makes $2MM, Soriano $10MM. Which would you rather have?

Walker and its not even close.

Again, the only way I see Hendry trading for Soriano is if it is to package him to another team for another player. As I said a few weeks ago, the Reds need help at 2B and perhaps with some good pitching prospects and maybe Dopirak, we could pry Dunn away from them in exchange for Soriano. But it has to be Dunn -- I wouldn't do all that to get Kearns. Also, there is the rumor about Floyd from the Mets, though that has died down with the proposed Manny/Cameron deal. I just don't see Hendry taking on a player like Soriano and making him fit into our scheme -- he seems like the kind of GM who finds the best player who already fits and then goes after him.

I wanna keep Walker. He knows how to hit and he seems like a great teammate.

And please, no Soriano.

I would rather they go for relief pitching my self, but the Soriano thing is not the end of the world that some here are making it out to be. The money thing is not that serious of an issue as somebody said on a previous thread they could print money if they could.

*note this is completely irrelevant to the current discussion*

Vindication:

Last year, there was an extensive debate in these comments on a play, where a ball thrown to the plate was overthrown, but the pitcher had been covering first, and a run scored because no one was covering the plate. I argued it was the 3rd baseman's job to come in and cover home, a position I was widely criticised for.

I was at yesterday's game, and caught something you probably wouldn't see on tv.

The play where Murton's throw to the plate was offline and got away from both Blanco and Prior. Jose Macias, playing third, saw that no one was covering home with a runner on third, and raced in to the plate, potentially saving a run.

*Resume discussion of today's game and trade rumors*

433--"Is the upgrade of Soriano over Walker at 2B, taking everything into account, worth the salary upgrade and the players we would need to give up?"

That'd be exactly the right question to be asking were you not assuming one thing that just isn't true: that Soriano actually is an upgrade over Todd Walker as a second baseman. He's not, not when you take into account that the marginally better offence he offers comes in a form that the Cubs have plenty of already (power but no patience) and that Soriano actually carries the butcher's glove that Walker is always reported to have but actually doesn't.

JH -- That's pretty much where I was going with my two questions. If we wouldn't want Soriano over Walker in the first place, why would we entertain a deal for Soriano in which Walker was part of the package?

My hope is that the answer is that Hendry isn't entertaining it and this is just a silly rumor. If a Walker/Soriano deal is being considered, I sincerely hope it's the Rangers who are throwing in the extra pieces, not us.

The only thing I would take from Texas is Michael Young and that will never fly. Jim Hendry don't mess with Texas.

ChiFan--"The money thing is not that serious of an issue as somebody said on a previous thread they could print money if they could."

It is obviously enough of an issue that they've not to date been printing money as you suppose that they can.

433--"That's pretty much where I was going with my two questions."

Fair enough. But I took what you wrote to mean that Soriano actually represents an upgrade over Walker if the only thing that you consider is their performance. And that it's then a question of balancing that upgrade against the cost in terms of salary and players. Well I don't see the upgrade in the first place, so I don't think there's anything to balance the cost against, so it would automatically be a stupid trade.

I have an apple. You have an apple that's pretty much the same. I'll trade you my apple for your apple, and I'll throw in a banana, an orange, and a $50 bill for the privilege. Do we have a deal?

COMN for some minor updates on the Mets/Sox/D'Rays mess.

Chifan -- I spent (too much) time yesterday addressing the "print money" fallacy. A couple of points:

(1) The size and market cap of the Tribune Company isn't relevant here. The Cubs' payroll is, and it's not dependent in any meaningful way on the stock performance or market cap.
Like all big, publicly traded companies, the TribCo's business units are held to very specific budgets (i.e. payroll numbers) and performance expectations. Shareholders and directors will not allow the company to throw good money after bad or spend money for fun.

So, Hendry has very specific (if secret) payroll parameters that are handed down to him, ultimately, by the Tribune Company. And that's exactly why you don't make careless bets on players -- if you are wrong, you don't get another chance to spend the money.

(2)I don't even understand what "print money" is supposed to mean, but if implies that they have unlimited revenue that allows them to have an unlimited payroll, the facts just don't bear that out. If that were really the case, we would have a $300 million payroll and would be in the World Series every year.

I really think they should consider trading ramirez.

That will solve a couple of problems:

1. We would receive a great amount of talent for him in return.

2. We would reduce our payroll. I dont think the tribsters made enough money this year, and I sort of feel bad about it.

3. Third basemen are easy to come by. Doesnt anybody remember our last third basemen?? Does ron santo ring a bell??

4. This would be a prime opportunity to allow jose macias to start everyday... That is obviously what baker wants. He wants our little chone figgins...

_________________________________________________

The top part was obviously not serious however their are a couple of things that I dont like about ramirez. He has no heart. I dont really think he gives two shits about winning anything. I think all of his "injuries" have just been excuses to take off a couple of days so he does not have to play.

Also, I fucking hate seeing jose macias in the game. But it got me thinking. I bet all of you any amount of money that jose macias works harder then any other player on that team. I always see him do things before a game to get ready. Jose macias hustles. Regardless if you like him or not, he hustles!!! I think their is a problem with a lot of the people on the team. Their seems to be no fire in any of them. I wonder if Dusty plays macias because he respects macias as a hard worker and would like to see that out of all of his other players.

It is impossible to believe that Dusty actually thinks that macias is the best option for the first pinch hitter. Dusty Baker used to bat behind hank aaron. I cant believe that he has such little baseball knowledge of talent. I mean, it has to be impossible.

So when everyone is complaining about macias being in the game, I think everyone should think about those things. Their is a lot of ego on that team. Their is a lack of hustle. I have complained more then anybody about baker being fired and macias being the worst player in history , but you know what......??????

Macias hustles and thats good baseball!!!

JH -- deal! Actually, why don't we just keep our respective fruit and you can just send me $50. I'll shoot you my home address in an e-mail.

I suppose I was allowing for the argument that Soriano would be a slight upgrade over Walker. I don't happen to believe that, especially taking their salaries into account. In any case, a Walker/Soriano trade scares the hell out of me because I don't see a way that it would make sense, especially if we are going to be throwing in any oranges or bananas.

I think their is a problem with a lot of the people on the team. Their seems to be no fire in any of them.

And there you have why I always say (regardless of talent) that a Dusty Baker team will be slightly better than .500

Other teams want it more than they do. Florida wanted it more than the Cubs did in 2003. Cub fans wanted it even more than Florida did but lets not forget....The Cubs do not play for the fans and that seems to be Dusty Baker's attitude as well.

A team who does not hustle has a coach who doesn't motivate, doesn't inspire his players. In fact I see comments Dusty makes in the papers that fuels the fire...motivates and inspires his players to take the argument to the papers and fans themselves. Dusty has turned the Cubs into the loveable losers to the unloveable losers...

A team who doesn't hustle should fire the manager.

the new Mets-Sox-Drays trade:

Sox: Cameron, Helleman, Huff, Milledge
Mets: Baez, Lugo, and Manram
DRays: Petit, H. Ramirez, Sanchez, Shoppach

"Florida wanted it more than the Cubs did in 2003."

If Zambranos had pitched as well in game one as he did in game five, the Cubs would have swept with three of the games being blowouts. The Marlins would be remembered, if at all, as a team that got lucky to make it to the NLCS.

Kenny Lofton and Randall Simon brought plenty of emotion to the team in '03. You think Derrick lee and ARam were fist pumping rah rah guys before Baker got ahold of them? This team is just lacking in outwardly emotional guys. I blame Baker for a lot but not that the team's not high-five happy.

Save the wanting it more for the high school locker room. That's the last time I heard it and took it seriously. Then we went out and faced a guy named Larry Monroe who threw in the high nineties and suddenly we must not have wanted as much because of twenty-one outs he recorded, eighteen were strikeouts. Turns out the guy who threw 100 MPH must have wanted it more. Seems like all the scouts surrounding the backstop wanted him more too.

Although I hope the Cubs stay away from Alfonso Soriano, face it... He's Dusty Baker's kind of player... Power, speed, first-ball/fast-ball hitter, eschews the walk. So if the deal gets done, figure Dusty was pushing for it.

But I want no part of Alfonso Soriano. He would not make the Cubs a better team.

What I would prefer to see Hendry do is to trade Glendon Rusch to a team in need of a starting pitcher in exchange for a true reliever. Rusch is best served as a starter. He gives up too many hits to pitch in relief, where there is a small margin for error.

I also wish the Cubs would bring up Jermaine Van Buren (the closer at Iowa) and see what he has to offer, and send Sergio Mitre (needs to pitch every fifth day as a starter) and Michael Wuertz (needs to work on his control) to AAA. I know Williamson and Wood will (probably) be joining the Cubs bullpen in a few days, but it would be useful to find out before then if Van Buren can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. As I've posted before on other threads, the Cubs can make room on the 40-man roster for Nomar, Williamson, and Van Buren (they have obne spot open right now) by recalling Angel Guzman (out for the year with a sore arm) and placing him on the 60-day DL, and then DFA Richard Lewis. If Lewis were to clear waivers (which seems likely), he would not be a six-year minor league free-agent until after the 2007 season, so the Cubs would have him under control for a couple more seasons in case he masters AAA pitching. Or if they don't want to DFA anybody, Adam Greenberg could be transferred to the 60-day DL, and then play Winter Ball if the Cubs want him to get more ABs before Spring Training.

Also, since being moved to the bullpen, Bobby Brownlie has been outstanding at Iowa. Middle relief looks to be his future, although maybe not with the Cubs, and probably not til next year. If the Cubs fail to place him on their 40-man roster after this season, he will almost cerainly be selected in the Rule 5 Draft. A proven AAA reliever with a 1st Round pedigree would be attractive to a lot of the "have-not" clubs. If the Cubs do not see him as a future member of their own bullpen, better to protect him on the 40-man roster and then trade him later, rather than lose him in the Rule 5 Draft for $50,000.

ChiFan, you got a source on that 11 player deal?

"ChiFan, you got a source on that 11 player deal?"

I saw it on espn.com.

New Manny trade source:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

If this happens, I take it as a sign that the Red Sox are planning to re-sign Damon. Either that or they're not as high on Hanley Ramirez as they've led others to believe. Is Milledge much of an upgrade over Hanley?

"If this happens, I take it as a sign that the Red Sox are planning to re-sign Damon. Either that or they're not as high on Hanley Ramirez as they've led others to believe. Is Milledge much of an upgrade over Hanley?"

I imagine they would re-up Damon. Milledge is like 5x times the prospect Hanley is. I do not know why the Rays would want him he is a carbon copy of Upton. If I were Lamar I would rather have Pedoria or Pablebon than Hanley.

It'll be hard for BOS to trade Shoppach now that he's in COL (for Bigbie).

ChiFan--"Milledge is like 5x times the prospect Hanley is."

Er, Baseball America ranked Hanley the 10th best prospect in baseball coming into this year, and Milledge the 11th best.

hendry has said today that williamson, wood and nomar will all three be activated for friday night's game at shea

i'll be there on saturday and sunday...should be good fun. maybe i'll see manny ramirez too....but on which team?!??

John Hill,

Milledge isn't 5x better. I went over the top on that one, but he will have a better career than Hanley. If that deal goes down I wonder if it will be him or Ellisbury who gets moved to a corner OF spot long term? According to Rosenthal in an article that was on Yahoo's MLB page Lester is in the deal to going to Tampa.

Stark is reporting that the Manny deal is "close to dead". Any one want to bet that by the five o'clock Sports Center that the deal will be "a few hours from going down". I love this time of year.

Sounds like the Mets-BoSox-Rays trade is now dead. The Red Sox, in an effort to stockpile even more 1B/DH types, still have interest in a Huff-for-prospects deal, and may have pissed a few people off in Colorado by reneging on a trade for Bigbie based on not getting ownership approval:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

Jim Hendry (minutes ago)

Trades: "Usually things are heating up this time of year. It's been kinda quiet in the office."

The team: "Wood and Williamson will be in the bullpen for the Philadelphia series" "Nomar will be back Friday."(too) "We should be in good shape."

From the NY Daily News via Rotoworld:

According to the New York Daily News, the Rays' insistence on receiving Hanley Ramirez, if they're not getting Lastings Milledge, is killing the Manny Ramirez deal.
Mets owner Fred Wilpon signed off today on absorbing the entire $64 million remaining on Manny Ramirezís contract, the Daily News has learned. Under the terms of the deal, which is still near death at this point, the Red Sox would have received Mike Cameron, Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge from the Mets, and Aubrey Huff from the Devil Rays. The Mets and Rays would have swapped Julio Lugo and Yusmeiro Petit. Danys Baez seems to be out of the mix now. The Red Sox would have sent additional prospects to the Rays, but Hanley apparently was off-limits. Jul. 30 - 4:31 pm et

The biggest deal the Cubs seem ready to pull off is the Kerry Woods starter for Kerry Woods reliever trade.

It seems that Kerry Wood had to approve the deal because of a no trade to the bullpen clause in his contract.

So here's all the trades so far today:

?

zzzzzzzz

The Rays are stupid if that NY daily news report is true. Pettit and Sanchez are top 10-15 pitching prospects in baseball,and Shoppach is better than anything they have at catcher.

I'm thinking something like Rusch, and Mitre or Novoa to the Marlins for Burnett, then Burnett to the Rangers for Mench. Maybe throw in another minor leager by the Cubs which winds up going to Texas.

Manny was pulled from the Red Sox lineup about 10 minutes before gametime, according to rotoworld....

Hmm, I can't access rotoworld right now...

me neither but Huff and Cameron are still in their lineups....

Enquiring minds want to know.....

apparently a false alarm....

once again according to rotoworld,

"he Baseball Tonight crew has learned that Manny Ramirez will not be traded, ESPNews reports.
OK. Ramirez was scratched tonight and the Red Sox still aren't saying why. His hamstring may be giving him problems again, but it's not just that"

Did you see this from earlier?

"ESPN's Jayson Stark believes the Twins have a chance of acquiring Alfonso Soriano from the Rangers using J.C. Romero, Kyle Lohse and Bret Boone.
The Mets and Cubs also remain possibilities for Soriano, although the best guess now is that he remains a Ranger until the offseason. Jul. 30 - 6:44 pm et"

Eeeeexcellent. Save us from ourselves, Twins.

My prediction is that Soriano will be with the Cubs opening day next year. He is a player that Jim Hendry likes alot and Hendry gets the guys he likes. Remember 6 months ago when everybody was complaning about us getting Burnitz. That worked out. You guys are treating Soriano like he is Jose Macias, and he is not he is an above average offensive player, and if he went to the outfield he could be a gold glover. I am not all that in favor of getting him, but it is not the end of the world if we do. In Jim Hendry I trust.

if [Soriano] went to the outfield he could be a gold glover.

Are you serious? Do you realize how bad he is in the infield? What would make you think he would be a gold glove outfielder?

From Will Carrol's rumor mill on BP.com:

Saturday, July 30, 6:00 p.m. ET:
The Cubs and Twins have all but shut down their trade machines. Both teams feel that internal options are better than anything available on the market given the inflated requests of most teams.

He has the combo of speed and arm to be. His biggest liability at 2nd is his hands.

rotoworld:

According to ESPN's Jayson Stark, the White Sox are trying hard to get Aubrey Huff and/or Danys Baez from the Devil Rays.
The White Sox may have to part with Brandon McCarthy to get either and definitely if they want to get both. Even though they're loaded with outfielders, the Rays may also want a member from the group of Brian Anderson, Chris Young and Ryan Sweeney. 2004 first-round pick Josh Fields, a third baseman, is another player sure to be involved in talks. Jul. 30 - 8:06 pm et

If no one has noticed, the trade deadline is like crack for me...

Jim Hendry went into the 2005 season with a "addition by subtraction" mentality. He felt the Cardinals got worse and the Astros got worse and the Cubs may have taken a hit but not as big as the Cards or Astros.

Problem is the Astros are showing they didn't take a huge hit and the Cards just may be better than last years awesome team. So considering Hendry tried to sell this approach in spring training leads me to believe this season has been written off a long time ago and Hendry isn't going to do anything stupid for this years sake.

He knows at the conclusion of the 05 season the slate is blank again....LOTS of money available to make moves....Hendry realizes we are a .500 team and if we do win the WC it will be a real stretch of good luck that did it and in the playoffs it really is a crap shot to the victory posts. He wasn't willing to make this club a contender with free agents this year--he isn't willing to make this club a contender by selling off all of the future prospects.

It isn't rocket science.

Oh and for everyone who thinks this club is in the thick of things for the wild card just remember this...at 7:17 PM on July 30th the Milwaukee Brewers are closer in the standings to the Cubs than the Cubs are to Houston.....That really does speak volumes.

More from Will Carroll:

Saturday, July 30, 7:30 p.m. ET: Manny Ramirez has been pulled from tonight's lineup according to NESN. This shouldn't be taken as much more than a precaution in case the ongoing trade discussions amount to something. Reports from Boston indicate that inside the Ramirez negotiations, the Sox think they can turn Lastings Milledge into part of another deal. Jayson Stark is reporting that this deal was for Adam Dunn. Sources in the Cincy front office flatly deny the report, stating "We've been clear that we're not dealing Dunn or any other outfielder."


The Cardinals continue to work on a deal for an outfielder. The latest discussions involve Brian Giles coming to the Cardinals in return for Jason Marquis. That part would be easy enough, so if this deal gets held up, it will be over minor details of money and additional prospects.

Don't the Padres need offense? Giles has been one of the most productive hitters in the game this year. And do we really need to see another OBP machine in St. Louis? And if the cost is Jason Marqus, can't we throw Rusch and a prospect towards the Padres and fill the LF hole? I love Murton, but if Hendry wants to win this year, Giles would be a helluva an improvement(career .413 OBP, .431 for the year) and he's a FA next year, so you wouldn't have to worry about him declining in future years (he'll be 35 next year).

If I were Jocketty I wouldn't make that deal. Carpenter and Morris are injury prone. If they make that deal and one of those guys goes down they will have promblems in October. About this manram deal. If the Reds are willing to do Miledge and Sanchez like Stark says, and the Mets are willing to pay Manram's contract and give up Pettit to get it done. If the Rays are the team holding it up. Why don't they make this trade.

Red Sox:
Cameron
Dunn
Heliman

Mets:
Manram
Weathers

Reds:
Miledge
Pettit
Sanchez

If those reports I mentioned above are true why not?

Houston just defeated the Mets..Cubs fall 4 games behind Houston...

Brewers ahead of SF 4-1 in the 8th....if Brewers win they will be only 2 1/2 games behind the Cubs...

That really says all we need to know.

And what does that say Cubfan?

Unless you're telling us that the Astros are on a hot streak right now and the Brewers are a much better team than people give them credit for, I don't see what your point is.

Astros sweep WC contenders Mets and Phils

Cubs struggle to beat below .500 Giants and D'Backs

The signs are everywhere, just need to start reading them. I hope Nomar, Wood and Williamson are enough of a boost to take us to another level, but you're putting your faith in 3 "injury prone" players, one of which is being put into a role he's never been in before.

The only hope we have is that Backe is gone for awhile and Rodriguez and that other rookie they have struggle. If I were Purpara I would go out and get a guy like Mark Redman or Gil Meche a solid 4th or 5th starter type for insurance.

sorry the Astros have not swept the Mets, taken the first 3 games.

According to Rotoworld, Jamie Moyer nixed a deal that would have sent him to the Astros.

I guess Purpura is taking my advice. Talking about SEA they sent Winn to the Giants for Foppert and Torrelba.

Blue--

it tells us the lowly Brewers are closer to us than we are the Astros who many on this site wrote off during the spring....

This club has a better shot losing out the division to the Brewers than they do catching Houston.

Houston with a 4 game lead over the Cubs means the Cubs likely will need to have a 7-3 record against them just to come close to them...and with Houston having an incredibly easier remaining schedule than the Cubs...I wouldn't look at a 4 game Houston lead as anywhere close to the Cubs being able to overcome that lead...

I do however think the Brewers have a better shot of overtaking the Cubs.

Another thing to consider--The Cubs have a 27-25 record at Home....by far the worst home record of any of the WC contenders.....

"Talking about SEA they sent Winn to the Giants for Foppert and Torrelba."

This doesn't make any sense, does it? Are the Giants actually trying to make a run at the NL West? Perhaps this is some kind of prep for another deal?

The Giants are only 5 and a half games out, and if Bonds can come back in the next couple of weeks they could be the favorite. Manram will not play tommrrow according to the update I heard WSCR. Maybe he should spend his day off searching through the NY times classifids.

Hawkins for Aardsma and Williams didn't make too much sense from their end, either. Does Michael Tucker usually start for them? I didn't look it up, but there can't be that much difference between the two.

By the way, the stage is set for the Cubs to make an impact acquisition in September.

"The Cubs have a 27-25 record at Home....by far the worst home record of any of the WC contenders....."

Does it seem to anyone else that the wind has been blowing in a hell of a lot more than its been blowing out at Wrigley in the last month? Today we would have hit 2 HR's, probably 3, and won the game if the wind were blowing out. It's not a surprise the team doesn't win at home. We know there's no way in hell that we can manufacture a run, and we have to hit HR's to score runs. I just get the feeling that God hates us and is thusly sending that breeze in from CF every day.

Trib reporting that Hill could be in Soriano deal. If this is true Why don't we offer Hill and Scott Moore (he would fill the need for a big time 3rd base prosecpt for the tribe) as the center pieces to get Bob Wickman and Kevin Millwood. I know Shapiro says he isn't trading them, but why not see if that could get us at least Wickman.

I think the wind has been blowing in games you'd think it would be neutral or blowing out.

It's been one of the hottest, driest years in recent and long-term Chicago memory....something you typically think the wind would be blowing out.

Usually the games you just can't hit a homer out of Wrigley follows a rainy day and a cold front that moved through. The flags blow from left to right and even balls hit to right have a tendency of drifting foul.

The only thing about the weather that I can think that may be in play is the fact the atmosphere is drier than normal in Chicago due to the drought...meaning the relative humidity is a bit lower than in normal years...lower humidity makes for a heavier ball hit in the air--it comes down much quicker and more resistance against it in the air. On a nice hot and humid day the air is thicker...and the ball is lighter--can stay up in the air longer, go farther etc...

But at this point I think you are right--God has something against the Cubs OR God loves the Cubs--maybe God loves losers more than winners? lol

If we trade Hill for Soriano, then I seriously give up. Anyone willing to defend the Cubs after making that trade needs a reality check. How often do you get a good lefty? More important, how often do the CUBS get a good lefty? This would be the second one we've given away in the recent years. Dumb.

anyone listen to Hendry's comments on the game yesterday? Hill isn't going anywhere. I don't think they are going to make a trade.

"If we trade Hill for Soriano, then I seriously give up. Anyone willing to defend the Cubs after making that trade needs a reality check. How often do you get a good lefty? More important, how often do the CUBS get a good lefty? This would be the second one we've given away in the recent years. Dumb."

Hill is 25 this is his 1st year out of A ball he is a fluke. He will never get 75 career victories in the MLB. About Willis he was a throw in. We do not make the playoffs in 03 if that deal goes did not happen, heck if Alfonseca was the pitcher here that he had been with the Marlins we would have won it all in 03.

There's no way to say at this point that Hill is a fluke... especially with that curve ball.
Soriano isn't worth it. This team has too many problems, beginning with the manager. Dusty proves on a regular basis that he can't even do something as simple as fill out a proper lineup.

the big trades are dropping now....

according to rotoworld, the White Sox acquired Geoff Blum from the Padres for 26 year old LHP Ryan Meaux currently at AA.

Stop the presses....

This has been a rather disappointing trade deadline so far...

ChiFan--I realize Willis was a throw-in. My point is that you should ever rarely dump lefties as it is. Add to that they should learn from a previous oversight and wait to see what the kid can do. 25 or not--if I remember correctly, some guy named Wade Boggs was an old 25 when he came up.

It's a slow trade year because there are a lot of over-achievers still in the race...

Toronto
Baltimore
Detroit
Cleveland
Texas
Entire NL East
Milwaukee
Arizona

There are really only 6 teams probably wanting to clear some payroll and take on good prospects. This may be a sellers market SO much that it turns out to be not much of a market at all. Sellers knowing there are so many teams wanting a certain player that they artificially think their value is more than it really is...and trades are not happening because of it.

at northsidebaseball.com. they said the Score had a rumor that Hairston was going to the Padres for Dave Roberts

and that Soriano was coming to the Cubs for Rich HIll and a PTBNL via the Twins (Twins trade for Soriano and then flip him to us).

Since Hairston's in the lineup, I doubt that..

Sounds like the Score making stuff up...

Rob,

Levine had a report about that Padre trade this morning and said it was unlikely. On the Twins trade it could be C-pat going there so you never know.

from will carroll:

"What deals will happen today? Mark Redman is expected to head to the Marlins, Matt Lawton to the Red Sox or Cardinals, and the Mariners will continue to flip guys like Ron Villone, Eddie Guardado and, perhaps, Jamie Moyer."

I wouldn't mind flipping Guardado are way and getting in on Lawton.

looked through the lineups of the teams currently playing...

no one is sitting or has been replaced that I would consider out of the ordinary

Wilkerson is sitting for the Nationals and Castillo for the Marlins but I'm sure it's just a day off for both of them.

Alou is sitting for the Giants, I'm sure the same reasoning.

This is a horribly boring trade deadline.

Well, nice knowing ya Jody, hope you enjoy the walk across the Roberto Clemente Bridge (Gerut to Pirates for Lawton)

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.js...

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