Video Game Baseball

GAME 122 IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (59-62) @ COLORADO ROCKIES (45-76) COORS FIELD, 4:05 pm CDT, TV: CSN, Fox Sports Rocky Mountain
Byung-Hyun Kim, RHP
3-9, 5.33 ERA
82/50 K/BB, 10 HR in 103.0 IP
Mark Prior, RHP
8-4, 3.70 ERA
130/39 K/BB, 20 HR in 119.1 IP
LF *Matt Lawton 2B Luis Gonzalez
2B *Todd Walker RF *Jorge Piedra
1B Derrek Lee LF Matt Holliday
3B Aramis Ramirez 1B *Todd Helton
RF *Jeromy Burnitz 3B Garrett Atkins
SS #Neifi Perez CF *Larry Bigbie
CF *Corey Patterson C Danny Ardoin
C Henry Blanco SS *Omar Quintanilla
P Mark Prior P Byung-Hun Kim
Games at Coors Field always make me think of video game baseball. It seems playing here is like playing one of EA's video games on the Rookie Level, where you could hit a HR pretty much anytime you needed it. Just push up on the joystick and swing, Voila, 3 run blast! To keep the optimism going around here, I took a look at the Cubs upcoming schedule. Here's a quick breakdwon: 4 Game Series(3): @SFG, vs. St. Louis, @Houston 3 Game Series(9): @Colorado, vs. Atlanta, vs. Florida, vs. LAD, @Pitt, @St. Louis, vs. Cincy, @Milwaukee, vs. Houston 2 Game Series(1): vs. Pitt So what do you think the Cubs have to do? I'm still going with 88-90 wins as the benchmark and a little help from our friends. So, if the Cubs win EVERY series from here on out, they'll reach 88 wins. Easy enough, right? Here's how it would work: Take 3 of 4 in all 4 game series: 3*3 = 9 wins Take 2 of 3 in all 3 game series 2*9 = 18 wins Sweep the Pitt series at home: 2*1 = 2 wins Grand total of 29 wins against 12 losses for a final record of 88-74. That sounds possible, right? Especially if you ignore the fact that we've lost series' to the D'Backs, Reds and Brewers already this year. Just imagine if it comes down to the last week of the season and we need to sweep Pittsburgh and suffer another letdown like last year versus the Reds....OH THE HUMANITY!! As for this Rockies team, they're just awful and the Cubs could give themselves a leg up with a sweep. The Rockies rank 10th in Runs Scored in the NL(despite playing in the baseball equivalent of zero gravity), 16th in ERA and Runs Allowed (that would be dead last) and last in defensive efficiency as well. And every time I belittle a Cub opponent they end up rocking us, so time for some reverse psychology. Beware the Rockies! This is the type of team and game the Cubs have messed up all year. Playing down to our competition is the phrase, I believe. Stop it! For a poor Rockie team, they do have a couple of hot hitters... Last 7 days: Todd Helton: 11/24 .458 AVG Luis Gonzalez: 6/17 .353 Matt Holliday: 8/23 .348 Aaron Miles: 5/16 .313 J.D. Closser: 3/10 .300 Dustan Mohr: 5/17 .294 Plus Prios has been very un-Prioresque since his return from the DL, which of course was due to getting hit by a line drive from Colorado's Brad Hawpe. No fear of deja vu¥though, as Hawpe is currently on the DL. Since Prior's return from the DL on June 26th, his line looks like this: 4-3 3.85 ERA/70 IP/30 ER/21 BB/68 K/11 HR Not bad...certainly not the ace stuff we expect though. Unfortunately we can't move the game to Yankee Stadium as Byung-Hyun Kim is on the mound for the Rockies. He can be nasty versus the righties (career .204 BAA/ season .256 BAA) and quite hittable verus the lefties (career .241 BAA/season .302 BAA). The Cubs have 5 lefties in the lineup today. Speaking of the lineup, here's some more proof why the Cubs shouldn't resign Nomar for next season. You risk more opportunities of Neifi Perez batting sixth for you. Knock a few out Cubbies and let's get back to .500. Go Cubs!!!
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Comments

Actually, that's why we shouldn't re-sign Neifi. :)

What's the word on Nomar? How long's he out?

Yeah true, but I think he's a fine defenisve/backup SS, just have to make sure the guy in front of him will play and Nomar isn't that guy.

What's the deal with the start time?

Nomar day-to-day with the strained back...

Game time is a mystery....

Cool.

I read 5:05 ET, so 4:05 Central. That not right?

Yeah that's what I thought. 4:05 in the heartland.

BTW, looking at this pitching match up if we lose this game, I will puke. ON PAPER, this is one game that we should not only beat, but KILL the Rox. I mean they are throwing BTK out there, oops, I meant BYK. Meh, what's the difference.

Prior's about due for a good outing, but on the other hand, he's been long-ball prone and this is Coors Field. I say 7-4 Cubs.

"looking at this pitching match up if we lose this game"

hahaha

im suprised kim is still playing, much less starting, and even more suprised its in colorado.

his arm is soooo dead.

Oh, his arm's dead. Then I change my mind. The Cubs won't score more than 3 runs all game. 5-3 Rockies then.

kim's a pretty sad shell of the guy most people remember with the DBacks...

weird this is he's been xray'd/mri'd and been to 347923 doctors...there's nothing going on with his structure, he just cant push the ball like he used to.

his slider is megaweak and his fastball has lost a lotta zip.

by game time is a mystery I meant, that why they're starting a game at 3:05 local time is a mystery. They certainly don't do it for every Friday home game, so it doesn't make much sense. I can't find anything about a concert or some other shenanigans going on either....

Weird, weird, weird

this lineup is absolutely miserable. we may as well give up outs in the 6-9 spots. I guess it's good that the Col offense is more miserable than ours

They did it for two other Friday games; one in June and one in July. They have a ticket promotion in effect for today; perhaps that has something to do with it?

TEM, if my memory serves, the last few games that we had a horrific looking 6-9 spot on paper, they were the only ones to actually produce while 1-5 got shut down. funny how this game works.

Yeah...the lineup scares me too.

Hairston is back.

Murton is gone.

@!$%*&!!

murton who?

How quick they forget.

Wasn't Murton that guy that Dusty Baker (the GM) just sent down to the minors??

Nomar is like 75% and availible to PH according to Santo on the pre game show.

Our four outfielders average 11 HR, 41 RBI.

Ironically those are Sammy Sosa type numbers this year.

Good clutch 2 out hit for Burny...1-0 Cubs!!

You didn't mention the two WALKS that set things up for Burny's single Manny.

I love it when Walker walks.

Yeah 2 BB's, very good. Wish they were hits so we could of scored more than 1 run, but good start.

I love striking out the side, but I hate 22 pitches in the first inning. Prior needs to learn to limit his pitch counts!

Patterson just made the gayest slide attempt at home.

Prior is slipping a little....we need to see MORE strikes...Our offense has already given up some scoring opportunities (thanks to folks like Lawton who hasn't hit anything in times up to bat)...The Cubs better buckle down and get serious RIGHT NOW.

how pathetic is this effort from Prior? he'll have dusty in the pen by the 4th inning after he hits the 120 pitch mark!

I wonder if Prior is trying harder lately to strike guys out considering his recent trouble giving up homers. Especially as he is in Colorado, he may be afraid to let anyone make contact on a halfway-hittable pitch. It may have the effect of lowering his ERA and shoring up his confidence in his stuff but he's obviously going to be exiting games much more quickly.

I think what we are seeing with Prior is his first exposure to failure in his pro career. If he stays healthy, I think he will make the adjustments.

JK1969 has a good pt. Prior never had good numbers early in his career at Vandy or at USC but then always made the adjustment.

His early success can be attributed to the early success that MOST pitchers experience early in their careers, no one has seen them and then they excel. It's really up to him to make the adjustment, turn the corner, and become the pitcher he's capable.

Yeah, Prior SUCKED last year until the last month or so....

Speaking of sucking.

Our base running is a giant low pressure center.

boy that was an inning befitting a team 40 games under .500

Prior and the Cubs in the field looked MUCH BETTER in the bottom of the inning...Now lets see if the Cubs can score some runs (they are supposed to average about 7 runs/game at this ballpark). We really need to sweep Colorado in this series -- the Cubs need to kick it up a few notches.

walker has walked twice. good thing it took baker so long even after his injury to put him there.

also, walker was safe on that "pickoff" play. burnitz and neifi got hits after him....that's a bad break.

what happened to Kpat's AB? or do I even want to know?

Just a terrible AB by Corey Patterson in the 4th. A real chance for him to turn the corner with a hit. No outs, men on 2nd and third in a tie game. He pops out in foul territory.

But Blanco gets the job done, driving the man in from third with a sac fly.

nice AB by prior

patterson is swinging like crap again...2 popouts. he should be on the bench this series...he's going to try and homer every at bat.

How about Larry Bigbie as a 4th outfielder next year. He can play all 3 spots, hits RH pitching well, can run. From the Wilson nightmare we know O'Dowd likes Wellemeyer. Bigbie for Wellemeyer seems fair.

Lawton (0-4 right now) just isn't getting it done for the Cubs, but then it's after the All-Star Break when he inevitably tanks.

His abysmal .246/.259/.333 and clodhopper defense are killing us. What was the Cub braintrust thinking??

Gimme a D
Gimme an F
Gimme an A

the lawton deal seemed like a trade for a trade's sake only. Now we have two LF's, neither of whom can hit a lefty.

Also it may have been Hendry's F you to Dusty as he always gripes about not having a true "leadoff man" and that's what Lawton is.

imagine, neifi perez intentionally walked.

it's happening

Of course the walk was to get to KP who immediately struck out on three pitches low and away.

Gimme a D
Gimme an..

It would've been nice to have Murton in this situation, right? A good eye, patient, hits lefties well. No big loss though (according to this board).

Patterson sucks so bad!!!!!!! Ks on three straight pitches.

There's a lot of truth in what you say Gabe..

Imagine being Patterson right now - they walk Neifi to load the bases and get to you. Then you strike out. Man, that's gotta hurt.

How does Corey not have one take sign in that at-bat? How does he not have enough sense to take at least one of the first two pitches? The bases are loaded! Yikes, get your head in the game dude.

patterson is back to old habits. let's recap:

1) bunted it too hard to get on base (error bailed him out)
2) "gayest slide attempt" out at home
3) runner on 3rd 0 out - pop up to third
4) weak fly out w/ runners on 2nd and 3rd 2out
5) picked off at first
6) bases loaded, swings at 3 pitches out of the zone - K

bring back murton!

Cubs Win the Pennant! Cubs Win the Pennant!

Well at least they win today. 5-3

Great job Woodie, Great Job Dempster

Mark Prior goes to 9-4

"Man, that's gotta hurt."

I just hope it DOES hurt, BJ. That's not meant as schadenfreude but rather as hope that he's frustrated with his performance. From his statements to the media, it seems like he could care less and doesn't think anything is wrong.

CUBS WIN!!!!!!! IN DUSTY WE TRUSTY!!!!!!!

Ok, winners of 6 of last 8...

WC leader PHIL is losing 6-1 in the 5th right now to PITT. The other WC teams are all tied early.

Go MIL, LAD, NYM and PITT!!

Who in the hell is saying Prior sucked today? I hope that was sarcasm. 10 k's 6ip 2er????????

In looking at the rest of the season I think 7,8,9 innings are going to be much better for our pitching. Wood was FILTHY. The drawback to this is we have 2 starting pitchers that could lose any time they start in Rusch and is it Williams.

We HAVE to sweep the rockies to stay in this. Go Brewers tonight!!!

How about in the Cubies we Trusty. The Dusty BS makes me cringe.

You trust the Cubs? Where have u been the past 97+ years?

Hey you gotta trust someone and Dusty is not the guy. He's like the girlfriend you would love to love but keeps cheating on you and letting you down.

On a serious note, We need to go into the ATL series at 62 and 62 then take 2 of 3. The first games of the rest of the series need to be played like the playoffs. Win at all cost. If a couple of the WC contenders (Houston and Phillie can slump hopefully the rest of the NL east will beat themselves up. We might still get in with 86 wins if you look at the matchups. Help us lady luck.

"You trust the Cubs? Where have u been the past 97+ years?"

Manny,

What has Dusty done to make you trust him.

02: Blows 3-2 series lead in the WS, and was 5 outs from winning it all.
03: Blows 3-1 series lead in NLCS, and again was within 5 outs from winning the series.
04: Blows a two game lead in WC with 9 to play. Losses 5 of 6 to 100 loss teams (NYM, CIN).
05: Manages to go on two 8 gm losing streaks.

Prior did not look strong. Prior will/can strike out many people but his game is not the strike out. If he struck out 10 in 6 innings it was that he was having some trouble and had to rely on his strikeouts to get out of innings.

I'll tell you why I trust Dusty 3 straight winning seasons here in Chicago. Yes we will finish over .500 I will guarantee that. The last time that happened, they hadn't cancelled the Apollo missions yet, thank you very much Mr. President Richard M. Nixon!

"03: Blows 3-1 series lead in NLCS, and again was within 5 outs from winning the series.
04: Blows a two game lead in WC with 9 to play. Losses 5 of 6 to 100 loss teams (NYM, CIN)."

02: Leads a 95 win team passed a 101 win team in the first round of the playoffs and a 97 win team in the leagu championship series.

03: Leads team that played close to .500 ball much of the season to a 19-8 September to clinch division. Leads team to their first playoff series win in 90+ years

04: Leads team that played close to .500 ball most of the season, racked by injuries to top top pitchers, top reliever, and 3 top starters, to a 15-6 September record putting them in a playoff chase before a final week collapse.

Perspective is a funny thing.

Chad,

How many 16 strikeout games has Maddux had?????? Prior has had 2. Is that not a strikeout pitcher? Maddux is a finesse pitcher and I bet you money he doesn't have any 16 k games. Or were those just luck for Prior?

"Prior did not look strong. Prior will/can strike out many people but his game is not the strike out. If he struck out 10 in 6 innings it was that he was having some trouble and had to rely on his strikeouts to get out of innings."

I have absolutely no idea what that means. You aren't really saying the more K's Prior has, the worse he is pitching? That's bullshit. He can dominate teams and strike out a bunch...but he also gets a lot of K's when he gives up runs too...but he is absolutely a strikeout pitcher, and that is a key part to his game.

Don't get me wrong NC, Mark Prior will strike out many people. But 10 ks in 6 innings meant he didn't have his a game. He used up too many pitches early and allowed people to foul him off with less then his best. I'm not complaining about his performances but when Prior is on, he strikes out 10 in 8 or nine innings.

Ok this isn't a science but this is what I have. Marlins 42 games 25 NL east
Mets 41 games 27 NL east
Phillies 40 games 25 NL east
Nats 41 games 29 NL east
Astros 41 Games
Brewers 40 Games
Cubs 40 games
I got the remaining schedules and figured up the series to my best guess giving the home team most series unless a really good team. Here is the final W/L my guess shows:
Houston 86-76
Phil 85-77
Was, Fla, NY 84-78
Mil 79-83

This means the Cubs will need 87 wins to take the WC (in my best guess assuming nobody goes on a tear) This is a 27-13 clip..675 baseball. We could get by with 85 wins if we sweep Houston in the 4 game series. So with this in mind WE SHOULD ALL BE PULLING FOR THE BREWERS TO SWEEP: FLA 4 games and Houston 6 games.

If this were to happen we could squeak in with 84 wins maybe........ Just something to think about. Just a guess. The main thing is are the Cubs even capable of finishing at a .675 clip? We saw many mistakes in the rockies game that we can't make against good teams:
Crappy slide into home. Runner at 3rd 0 out and no score. Leadoff batter did not reach (Lawton) Bases loaded 2 out and didn't score. Nomar out with back pain. Macias still used to pinch hit (Although this was a good situation for him up 2 noone on and noone out)Patterson even on the team etc etc...... Maybe we can get it all together and it is Dusty's job to get this team on fire.

I'd rather have Prior with less K's and go into the eighth inning. I don't think anybody is (or at least they shouldn't) saying that Ks mean he sucks or that Prior isn't a K pitcher. It's just that at times, if you're in trouble, you NEED K's and that IS a sign of a tough outing.

With that said, he pitched well enough today. Sloppy ballgame overall though. Good thing we played the Rockies who suck.

I agree with andrew, Kpat doesn't really seem to care and has lulled himself into thinking that he is in a "slump." Maybe that hot streak in 2003 did more harm than good in that it convinced him what a stud he was and that his way CAN be successful. The problem is that CAN BE SUCCESSFUL usually means that most of the time it isn't.

I too would prefer Prior get fewer K's and use fewer pitches...but, he racks up the K's plenty of times when he doesn't "need" them...he is a strikeout pitcher, and it does as much to keep him from getting into trouble as it does to get him out of trouble...that's why I don't fully understand the point.

K's in itself does not mean he is pitching well...but I don't think they show any weakness either.

Nats lost 1-0, Phils down 11-2. Astros down 1-0 in the 6th. Marlins up 3-0 in the 8th.

Phi -
FLA -
HOU 0.5
WAS 0.5
NYM 2.0
MIL 4.0
CHI 4.5

Being the wild card leader seems to be a curse. Washington was running away with it, they tanked. Hou looked like they were going to run away, they have cooled off. There is no reason why a team 3 games under .500 should even have a prayer at a playoff chance, but the other teams are all missing opportunities to make a run.

If I had to guess it will be between the fish and the stros....but for all we know we'll be playing to keep the Brewers out of the playoffs.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if all continues tonight as it's going now then:

1. Philadelphia --
2. Houston .5 GB
2. Florida .5 GB
2. Washington .5 GB
5. Mets 2.0 GB
6. Cubs and Brewers 4.5 GB

Not out of reach

I was wrong sorry

"Macias still used to pinch hit (Although this was a good situation for him up 2 noone on and noone out)" -- NCFAN

no no and no

it's the wrong situation for him. in that situation you need power....especially at coors field in a close game. macias has the opposite of power.....7 XBHs all year and 0 HRs. that was a great spot for nomar or even holly if you're married to the "lefty must face righty" thing.

that was the WRONG spot for macias no doubt. his 25% chance of a single is the opposite of what you need in that spot.

also, maybe burnitz was just homesick for a lack of oxygen? he had 30% as many hits today as he's had in the last 3 weeks i think. we need another guy or two to get hot if we're going to get back in it

i can't believe i just said the cubs might get back in it. it's amazing how bad the NL is this year that they're even within smelling distance.

I agree, Holly or Nomar would have made more sense there (pending nomar injury). But with a man on 2nd and 2 out, I'd pick macias over Holly without much thought.

The problem with 4 teams within a half a game is that if the Cubs lose, they will automatically lose ground somewhere...however, if the Cubs sweep this series, they are really setting themselves up for a run with a 9 game homestand to follow....or actually, setting us fans up for another tease.

Brewers will be 4.0 out with the Cubs 4.5 back if they win (leading 1-0 vs Hou in 7th)

Mark Prior will strike out tons of guys. He will always be near the league lead (with 35 starts) but what I'm saying that he needed 10 strike outs to get out of innings. When he's on his game the strike out come naturally cause his stuff is that good. There is a difference.

Another fairly good day for the Cubs.

Firstly, and most importantly, the Cubs won 5-3.

GOOD:
WC leader, PHIL lost 11-2.
2nd place in WC, WASH lost to NYM 1-0.

(oh yeah CHW lost their 6th in a row)

BAD:
FL beating LAD 3-0.
HOU beat MIL 5-3 (but it does put Cubs ahead of MIL).

Here are the current standings with 40 games to play for Cubs:

FL - 57 losses
HOU - 57 losses
PHIL - 58 losses
WASH - 58 losses
NYM - 59 losses
Cubs - 62 losses
Brewers - 63 losses

The Cubs are only 4.5 games back. And teh WC leaders are on pacce for only 85 wins now. Yes still a few teams in front of us, but they are cutting down the deficit, which is clearly the most important. Another big game tomorrow (aren't they all now??). Hope Rusch can keep us in the game. Hope Nomar is back.

Keep the faith....GO CUBS!!!

I know that all the teams in front of us make it tough but... 1) we can take care of our business against Houston and 2) those NL east teams haven't pulled away from eachother all year, why would they start now? If the Cubs could be within 4 games AFTER the atl series, they would be in good shape.

The only thing that sucks for us is seven remaining versus the stl.

PREDICTION FOR TOMORROW: Cubs 8, Rockies 6

In the Law of Averages (meaning the Cubs have to win it sometime, don't they)!!!!! we trusty!!!!!

Wouldn't going with Williams tomrrow be a better move than Rusch? Rusch has not pitched well since he was put in the pen in June and is a FB pitcher not good for Coors. Atleast Williams is a GB pitcher. I think if Rusch does bad tomrrow they will put him back in the pen, and Pinto will be recalled to take that spot in the rotation. West Tenn has a DH tommrrow and Pinto should pitch in one of the games so he would be in line with that spot. How about getting Mark Redman or Jeff Weaver? There innings eaters and are the best guys avalible. Could be had for one of Ryu or Marmol.

woo..go scrubs.

i spent my friday watching BJ Upton prove yet again why he's TB's CF of the future...heh

the cubs game had to have been better than the crap i saw in durham tonite...

Here are the current poll results from Chicago's WSCR sports radio web survey...

Who will win the NL Wild-Card ?

Philadelphia (9%)
Houston (40%)
Washington (1%)
Florida (13%)
New York (Mets) (2%)
Milwaukee (7%)
The Cubs (25%)

-

The talking heads on ESPN don't even mention the Cubs as having a chance to win The Wild Card race...most of them think The Phillies or the Marlins will win...that's clearly possible...Yet, we still have a chance...If we were playing the Marlins today we would have had to play better than we did in order to win...The Cubs are building momentum and confidence but they need to play smarter baseball. It's also dangerous to rely on someone like Rusch as a starter -- Dusty should not be shy about pulling a pitcher when the Cubs start to get into trouble...If Rusch loses his command (or control) early then put Williams in and hope he can go several innings...We still have Williamson, Woody and Dempster who all seem to be quite reliable...One way or another the Cubs need to try to sweep this series in Colorado.

Baker: No on-the-job training during playoff chase

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-c...

{...Baker bristles at suggestions he wants a roster loaded with veterans.

''They talk about me and kids and [stuff]. How many kids I got?'' Baker said. ''Damn near half my team is kids. Probably 80 percent of my pitchers. You look at [Cardinals manager] Tony La Russa, how many kids has he ever had? He has nothing but veterans on his team, and he always has.''

Comparisons have been made to Braves manager Bobby Cox being willing to show more confidence in young players. But Baker said his old Braves teammate Ralph Garr, who keeps close ties with that organization, gave him some insight about Atlanta's philosophy.

''He said they bring them up a year later vs. a year early,'' Baker said. ''So when they get here, they know how to play the game.''

Maybe, though it's hard to imagine that 21-year-old outfielder Jeff Francoeur got an extra year of seasoning in the minors. Francoeur was promoted from Class AA by Atlanta the same day Murton was brought up by the Cubs, but has nearly twice as many at-bats over the same period.

Francoeur is hitting .360 (41-for-114) with 10 home runs, 28 RBI and 25 runs in 31 games with the Braves. Murton is 19-for-56 with one homer, four RBI and six runs in 25 games.

Baker stressed it's difficult to provide on-the-job training while fighting for a playoff spot...}

--

Dusty: The Cubs are NOT paying you $4 Million/year to make stupid statements...Learn from the Bobby Cox's of the world and give your top Rookie players (like Murton) a REAL CHANCE to prove that they can help the Cubs reach their full potential...If you have to bench Lawton or push Hollandsworth aside then do it...It's all about performance in the final push for a Wild Card spot...We have players like Lawton and Hollandworth who are NOT performing up to expectations...Why should they be rewarded and allowed to start every day...?

"i spent my friday watching BJ Upton prove yet again why he's TB's CF of the future"

How about this we trade Cedeno and Mitre to TB for Upton in the off-season. TB gets a SS who can defend the position and a pitcher who is MLB quality. We put Upton in RF and a Murton-Pie-Upton OF for the next decade would be awesome. defintely not going to happen but could be a win-win for both teams.

Re Scott's post above. Dusty is at his worst when he bullshitting himself and the media. And what rookies or young players is he talking about? The arsonists in the bullpen? Right now Murton is the superior player to Lawton, Macias, and Hollingsworth, but because he does not have five years of ML experience he is useless to Dusty.

Just to be clear after that last shot, I am not in the "fire Dusty now crowd." I appreciate his weaknesses as a manager, but I also appreciate his strengths which is his abiilty to manage 25 strong personalities and blend them into a team and, generally, get them to perform at the highest level their talent can take them (even Macias and Hollingsworth are producing about as well as can be expected, I just have low expectations.)

If the Dusty manages the Cubs next season, then rookie position players are useless. They need to follow the LaRussa/Jocketty model of leveraging their prospects into getting high quality players just going into ther prime or still near their prime (see Edmonds and Rolen).

Re CP: as Billy Bean says in "Moneyball," you either know how to hit or you don't, that if a "swing needs some work," "pro baseball's not real good at reinventing guys." (page 50, hardback edition). CP is pretty much the same hitter now as he was in the minors. The Cubs brass have an immense ego investment in him as they hyped him as their position player who would become a superstar. Like most tools loving scouts, Hendry and Hughes just assumed he would learn strike zone judgement when he got to the majors. I think the verdict is now in. He can't. He joins Billy himself as a great tools guy, a guy with great "face," who flops. Like Billy, I get feeling that Corey hates being in the batter's box and is trying to escape it as fast as possible. It will interesting to see if the Cubs tender CP come arbitration time. I hope they don't because they can't improve CF until they move past Corey and accept the humiliation that they were wrong about him.

Scott, you play John Shurholtz and I'll be Jim Hendry OK,

Hi, John, Jim Hendry here. I will trade you Matt Murton straight up for Jeff Francoeur

I just read the Tribune account of the game tonight. I see Patterson got thrown out on the basepaths twice tonight and Walker once. But they are veterans so their mistakes don't count in Dusty's world. Please Dusty, just admit it, you don't like playing rookies!

Re CP and the outfield: It is very hard for me seeing the Cubs winning the wildcard with an outfield of Lawton/Macias, Patterson/Hairston, and Burnitz. Eventually all the outs this group generates will drag the offense down into another losing streak the next time Maddux, Prior, or Zambrano have a couple of back to back mediocre starts.

Germany, this team will go as far as the pitching takes us. If the have a couple of bad starts, you're right. In order to win the WC, our pitchers have to be lights out the rest of the way. But being 4 back with 6 weeks to play, don't tell me we can't do it.

You know what I found odd? Jerry Hairston going into LF. But by putting Hairston in LF Baker contradicted himself again. Earlier in the year he said Hairston can't play LF because its too damn hard to learn if you haven't played it much. Nevermind the fact that Hairston only has played 10 games in LF compared to the massive amount of games he got in CF before he came to the Cubs. 15. But whatever, CF is easier to learn than LF apparently in Dusty's world.

Now suddenly it is fine for Hairston to play in LF after coming off the DL and in the middle of his little playoff hunt? It doesn't make any sense. But hey most of Bakers excuses don't make sense.

It is a small meaningless thing that has no bearing on the rest of the season when I saw Hairston trot out to LF last night. Just found it odd that now was the time to start to play Hairston in LF after his little excuse earlier in the season.

On the bright side this was probably the first time all season, that in a defensive sub, he probably brought in a guy of equal value or better on defense. Usually Baker downgrades his defense in a defensive substitution.

Dusty gem today in Sun TImes-
"I kind of like the fact we're not in there,'' Baker said. "We're right on the outskirts.''
He's talking about the playoff race.

Way to fire up the boys, Dusty.I'm glad you make $ 4 million a year so the pressure will not hurt you.

He might as well said "Hopefully the Astros and Phillies team planes crash and we can get into the playoffs."

The first games of the rest of the series need to be played like the playoffs. Win at all cost.
I think you're exactly right, chifan.

Now suddenly it is fine for Hairston to play in LF after coming off the DL and in the middle of his little playoff hunt? It doesn't make any sense. But hey most of Bakers excuses don't make sense.
Nice observation, MikeC.

The real difficulty in the wild card chase is the reality that the NL East plays each other predominately the rest of the season. This means that if a team gets on a big winning streak they will be uncatchable from the Cubs perspective....and if a team goes on a big losing streak we at least catch them...but everyone beating them will be staying ahead of the Cubs at the same time. All the NL East playing roughly .500 is the only way to really do it...but that is still with the Cubs playing out-of-this world baseball (something I don't see happening with this club). Oh this club has another 6 game win streak in them...don't get me wrong--but they also have another 6 game losing streak in them as well.

I agree with whoever said pitching will carry this club...I'd add OR it will sink them. If they only have trust in 4 starters they are in trouble. Eventually Z and Prior will hit the wall and when would this most likely happen...at the end of the season...when we play key series against Milwaukee, Houston etc...

The outskirts comment was taken out of context by the poster. Dusty was talking about how when they list the teams in the wildcard hunt on ESPN and the like, the Cubs aren't listed (due to space considerations, mostly, but you can draw other conclusions if you wish). He was NOT talking that they didn't have a chance or that they deserved to be left out. If you're going bash him, get the facts right.

Haven't the Cubs taken like six of eight (or nine?) from the Cardinals this year? So while on paper, maybe they're to be feared, but in reality, those seven games vs. the Cardinals shouldn't scare the Cubs much at all.

Adam, please stop putting things into positive perspective. It's not welcome here. Thanks.

Bob, The Cubs have taken 6 of 9 against the Cards, but about 7 of those games were with the Cards playing with only half their team. I wouldn't say the Cards shouldn't scare the Cubs, particularly wth the Cubs historically bad record at Busch, but hopefully the Cards injury bug will stick around a few more weeks (or months)

and Bob, if you don't think back to back winnings seasons is good enough for some people, I suggest you read post 62.

Cubfan, give me some evidence that ANY team other than the Cubs will go on a run. All these teams are middling (is that word?) right now. You have this bizarre obsession with trying to find reasons for not believing that the Cubs can pull it out. And why will Prior and Z hit the wall? There is no reason to think that at all. In fact, Prior has been on the DL so his starts are limited and him and Z just get stronger as the season goes on. Rememeber Prior's last start last year? I do.

So here are the team's records in the last 10 games:

Houston 5 - 5
Florida 7 - 3
Philly 6 - 4
Wash 5 - 5
Mutts 5 - 5
Mil 4 - 6

You don't seem to understand that Florida can go 2 and 1 in a series against the Mets and turn around and go 1 and 2 against the Phillies who can turn around and go 1 and 2 against the Nats who can turn around and get swept by the Braves.

Its totally do-able. VERY VERY VERY hard to do. But do-able.

"give me some evidence that ANY team other than the Cubs will go on a run"

Here's some: the Marlins have shut out their opponents the last three games in a row. Beckett and Willis have both rebounded from a slow summer and Burnett has won the last 7(!) games he has started.

The Cubs chances of making the playoffs? "Do-able" but not bloody likely.

Chad,

If the NL East had most of it's games against the NL Central or West...then there's a chance each team could lose each day. When they play themselves you are guaranteed that 2 or 3 of them will win. That isn't a problem when we are even with them...but we are 4.5, 4.5 4 and 2.5 games behind each East team. I'm not as concerned with Houston...we can play them head on and seal our fate against Houston. We have the same opportunity to an extent with Florida also. We don't have that opportunity with Philly, NYM or Wash....and when they play each other we don't gain.

Being in a 4.5 -2.5 hole....is like taking a week off of the schedule....we have less time to make a dent. And without playing them head on...and with them playing each other (meaning one of them will win when they place each other) makes it very hard as you say (and if we don't catch them before the third week in September--we probably never will)

NYM is not a concern in the WC race. Cameron is out for the year, Piazza wil go on the DL soon, and Beltran is playing hurt. WAS has big O problems and their rotation is good, but not HOU good to overcome that. PHI is a solid team but I doubt they'll win it. That leaves FLA and Hou as the teams that will in it. My gut says it will be FLA because the have the best talent of any MLB team in terms of balance of a rotation, O, and pen. The good thing for the Cubs is they play those teams. That said there is NO way they will do it.

Chad-
Give it up. Cubfan doesn't understand the idea of the NL East to continue, just like all year, play each other .500 the rest of the year.

Mets have 41 games left....20 against Nats, FLA, PHIL

Nats have 40 games left... 22 against Phils, Fla, NYM

Phils have 39 games left 23 against NYM, FLA, NATS and Houston

Fla have 41 games left 26 against NYM, NATS and PHIL, Houston and Milw

Brewers have 39 games left....12 against Houston and Florida

Astros have 40 games left...16 against Mil, Phi and Fla...

You can see the East is the problem...not so much Houston or Milw...

Impossible no....but not likely we even become the third best WC team.

Oh and Lord help us if the Phillies make a move one on one against Atlanta....Could be interesting seeing who actually wins that division. They have 7 games remaining.

Cubfan:
"Impossible no....but not likely we even become the third best WC team."

Just the other day, didn't you say it was impossible for the Cubs? So things are looking better even to you??

No Manny, I've never said impossible...I said on days the teams ahead of us play each other there is no way we catch them on those days...AND of the few games left this season...many of them see teams ahead of us playing each other...

AND since the other day when we had Phil, Washington, Houston, Florida AND New York ahead of us....we have caught ZERO of them. That was a week ago....we've put ZERO teams ahead of us behind us and only put the one team who was tied with us (Milw) a half game behind....

That isn't progress and we are a hole week later now.

Cubfan:
"That isn't progress and we are a hole week later now."

Going from 6.5 back to 4.5 back is progress. You just don't understand that I guess.

Yeah, and when will the Cardinals have their full team? Rolen may be out the rest of the year. Are Walker and Sanders back yet? (They may very well be.) Will they be playing all of their regulars in the Sept. series, when they've probably clinched by then?

My point was that they've exhibited success against the Cardinals this year -- as opposed to years past -- so yeah, they should definitely respect them, but they have confidence against them now. So, I doubt they Cubs are quaking in their boots at the prospect of playing them seven more times as was suggested.

Manny if there was only one team we were 4.5 games behind that would be progress...but we still trail 5 teams...

This is a good example of my point. The Cubs have played really good baseball lately....2 of 3 from the Astros...winning a series against the Cardinals....first game against the Rockies....yet we still haven't knocked a team out of our way yet...why??

Because they are playing each other...someone ahead of us WILL win...and they are doing it just enough so each one of them keeps ahead of us. And looking over the schedule....it doesn't get any better does it?

Cubfan (From "Don't be Fooled" on August 17th):
"So even if the Cubs have the best record from here on out....overcoming everyone will be an impossibility...from here on out."

So, going back to post #104 of this thread where you said you "No Manny, I've never said impossible.", do you now admit you said it was impossible?

I understand you don't think it will happen, neither do I totally, I think the 3 long losing streaks were too much to overcome, but it is clearly possible and more likely today then a week ago.

My predictions are notoriously terrible, but IF (and that's a big "IF," as big as I can make it on this site) the Cubs can somehow manage to go something like 28-12 or 30-10 over the rest of the season, the Wild Card contenders I would rate as the biggest obstacles are (in this order):

1. Phillies
2. Marlins
3. Astros (as long as Clemens stays healthy)

I don't believe the Mets, Nationals, Brewers, or D'backs will be factors, as long as the Cubs keep winning.

Obviously, this is all moot if the Cubs don't keep winning. They can't afford any more losing streaks, and if they do lose a series, it's better to lose one against a bad team not in contention for the WC than against a fellow WC contender. In other words, it would actually be better for the Cubs to lose two out of three to the Rockies and sweep the Marlins next weekend at Wrigley than to beat the Rockies and the Marlins two out of three each.

The Florida series next weekend at Wrigley is like a playoff series. I would have hoped that Dusty would have approached it that way, but by skipping Jerome Williams' spot in the rotation yesterday, Mark Prior is now scheduled to miss the Florida series completely, instead of pitching the Friday game (as would have happened if Williams had stayed in the rotation this weekend). I don't know about you, but I would rather have had Williams-Prior-Maddux (skipping Rusch) going this weekend in Colorado, and then Zambrano-Rusch-Williams against Atlanta, and then Prior-Maddux-Zambrano against the Marlins, with Rusch pitching the first game of the Dodgers series. Instead, we'll be seeing Rusch-Maddux-Zambrano or Maddux-Zambrano-Williams versus Florida.

Oh well...

Cubfan-
Sorry, you just don't understand what Chad, myself and others have tried to explain to you, I guess it must be part of your "games over/under .500 math" thing.

a semi-late, but someone interesting interview with bobby brownlie...dunno if anyone tipped it earlier, but its a decent read...

http://cubs.scout.com/2/426225.html

wow..spelin' be hard.

"a BIT semi-late, but somewhat interesting..."

sigh..

Cubfan you still fail to understand the concept of .500 baseball and that is exactly what all the teams ahead of us are playing. Don't you get it? We don't need to gain on everybody every day. IF we were 1 back with 1 to go with teams playing each other on that last day, we are out. But until then it doesn't matter who the hell they play. Just play .500 and we can catch them. Stop getting so caught up on one day and look at the big picture.

For example the Nats have 7 games left against the Fish. If they go 4 and 3, VIOLA! They have 6 against the Phillies. Maybe they will go 3 and 3. Get it now? Them playing each other actually is a good thing. Every east team splitting the remaining games agaist each other is fantatic.

Not to mention that they all have to play the braves still!!!!! GO BRAVES!!!

And Crunch, besides some a-holes around here, no one cares about your spulling.

"And Crunch, besides some a-holes around here, no one cares about your spulling."

Good.

Now, what do you think of Kerry Woods move to the bullpen?

The NL East are not going to play .500 the rest of the way out. FLA and PHI will seperate themselves from NYM and WAS. FLA and PHI will end up around 87-90 wins while NYM and WAS will be in the 80-84 range. Do you really think all of those NL east teams will have 84-85 wins because that what there records will be if they do. That still leaves HOU who have 4 of the best 10 pitchers in the NL. We only play them at the end of Sept. when we could be out of it. Any way at the end of the 1-5 homestand coming up you will see the light any way. We are done, play the kids, and MOST imporant of all fire Baker.

Chifan:
"The NL East are not going to play .500 the rest of the way out."

They all don't, everyone but ATL does. And remember ATl has lots of games left with them.

"Any way at the end of the 1-5 homestand coming up you will see the light any way. We are done, play the kids, and MOST imporant of all fire Baker."

So are you rooting for them to loseor expect them to lose?

why would fla and phi separate themselves now? They haven't done it all year.

Do you really think all of those NL east teams will have 84-85 wins

Exactly....though I won't say Wash and NYM will fold and Philly and Fla will be the one's moving up...there is a better chance at least one of the 4 teams will play considerably better baseball than everyone else....

And with that said....The Cubs need all 4 of those teams to play several games worse than the Cubs from here on out and that is asking for much more than I am willing to bet happens.

Frankly I think the Cubs are better than the Mets...even with the Nationals, Brewers and Astros...and worse than the Marlins and Phillies. So if we all were tied today...at the end of the season I would expect the results to read something like this

1 or 2 Philadelphia
1 or 2 Florida
3 - 5 Houston
3 - 5 Chicago
3 - 5 Brewers
6 New York
7 Washington

BUT because we are 2.5 games behind NYM up to 5 games behind Houston....and closer to 5 behind everyone else except Milwaukee.....AND the fact the teams ahead of us play a lot of games against each other AND we don't play many against the NL East teams ahead of us....this is how I feel the race will play out

1 2 or 3 Houston
1 2 or 3 Philly
1 2 or 3 Florida
4 Washington
5 or 6 Chicago
5 or 6 Milwaukee
7 New York Mets

That 5 game lead is an issue but it's a bigger issue that there is 1 team with a 4.5 lead, another with a 4.5 lead...another with a 4 game lead...and another with a 2.5 game lead on us...and another just a 1/2 game behind us.

Just like last year when you all said I was nuts for saying the club was a 87 win team and then they performed amazingly close to that.....and when I said they were slightly better than .500 this winter for the 05 season....few agreed...until the season started to get rolling in full steam....Just like that...you will find Manny and Chad that I will once again be right....

If the meaning of impossible is the Cubs no way in hell get to the post season...then yes it's impossible Manny....Mathematically impossible?? probably not....but realistically impossible...YES!

The lead is too large to overcome....AND there are too many teams ahead of us who will be playing each other too much for those odds to be reduced.

Plus as someone said, They have Dusty Baker managing them--that alone should be enough to make everyone thinking about next year.

in above post Washington should be in the group the Cubs are better than...not worse than.

Cubfan-
You forgot to address my post #108. Thanks!!!

"So are you rooting for them to lose or expect them to lose?"

I expect them to lose. This is what they do they teese you with a good stretch and then they crap down there pants. If they go 4-2 on this home stand then I will consider them a contender. Assuming they sweep COL. Until then I am not getting my hopes up. Anyways if they did finish below .500 Hendry can sign any FA's w/o worrying about losing his 1st round pick in next year's draft which would be a big advantage. By the NL East I meant the WC teams.

Cubfan:
"Plus as someone said, They have Dusty Baker managing them--that alone should be enough to make everyone thinking about next year."

Check out Dusty's managing record in Sept....

Manny, yes it will be impossible....post 104 I misspoke...I do think it will be impossible.

It "isn't" impossible for the Cubs to win 100 games...but it IS not going to happen and therefore pretty much impossible....just like I ANSWERED you in post 120

Well Manny,

Murton was one of the hotter hitters on the team the past few weeks....and gets demoted. And it was BAKER commenting to the papers that he doesn't want him in the middle of the pennant race (which he thinks he's in the middle of...only if you also believe the Dodgers, Giants, Diamondbacks and Rockies are in the pennant chase as well...otherwise the Cubs are a sub .500 team with many teams well above .500 in their way).

I'd say that is just one reason Dusty should not be trusted.

Sorry, I didn't read your entire post (it hurts my head) and didn't see this other snonsensical comment:

"If the meaning of impossible is the Cubs no way in hell get to the post season...then yes it's impossible Manny....Mathematically impossible?? probably not....but realistically impossible...YES!"

HA HA another Cubfan math problem I think. PROBABLY NOT???

Cubfan-
Just admit you said it was impossible than in this thread you said you NEVER said it was impossible. But i showed you did. Just be a man and admit it, thanks!!

Thanks for your post #124 and admitting you did not remember what you said the other day.

Go Cubs!!!

Manny,

I answered and you continue to ramble on about it...which is fine...

oh and I didn't make post 124...some guy named MannyTrillo made post 124

Good thing Dubois has done well without all the pressure from Dusty, I can see that was the problem with him here in Chicago.

With CLEV:
10-42 (.238)
6 runs
5 BB
23 K's

Man our prospects who deserve playing time actually not very good....UGH!!

Cubfan:
"Murton was one of the hotter hitters on the team the past few weeks....and gets demoted. I'd say that is just one reason Dusty should not be trusted."

Wow, since when did Baker become the GM?? Again another time someone lets Hendry off the hook.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp

Cubs manager Dusty Baker called Murton the victim of a numbers game. One of those numbers is 12, which is how many pitchers the Cubs continue to carry, even though it shorts the bench one player.

ìI explained it to him,î Baker said. ìI said, ëHey, man, youíve done nothing wrong. Youíve done everything right that you could ask a young man to do in limited action.í Heíll be back. Just take what heís learned here and keep improving on his game.î
______________
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-k...

Not many players who are hitting .339 are in danger of being returned to the minor leagues. But Cubs rookie outfielder Matt Murton suffered that fate Friday.

Manager Dusty Baker doesn't think Murton has to become a big home-run producer to be successful in the majors.

"The name of the game is scoring runs,'' he said. "Sometimes you get stronger. Right now his stroke isn't like that. It's more a base-hit stroke. But let's not forget this young man is out of Double-A [recalled from West Tenn]. He's on a good course.''

I suppose Baker wouldn't want a Mark Grace or a Tony Gwynn on his team...since they were only base hit hitters and not big HR hitters like he was...(242 HR's average of 16 a season)...

You actually think Baker told Hendry "I think we need to option Hollandsworth (or Mascias etc) to Iowa" instead of Murton??? You don't think Baker either made the call or is in 100% agreement with it?

"Wow, since when did Baker become the GM?? Again another time someone lets Hendry off the hook."

Baker doesn't make the roster moves, but what he thinks about what should be done has alot to do with the move. I could see it now.

Hendry: Dusty, What do you think should be put off the 25-man roster. Holly cleared waivers maybe we should trade him.
Dusty: No man you can't do that.
Hendry: Why?
Dusty: Do you see him out there in the field he is like Willy Mays dude. That Murton kid is young too young he should go. I mean dude don't you know you can not trust anyone under 30 in a pennant race.

At the end of the day Hendry could have kept Murton over Holly. Baker does have some say on who he wants up here.

Agreed, chifan. Like I said on another thread, now we have two left handed left fielders who can't hit lefties. It doesn't make any sense. Although Dusty's moves usually don't (Macias leadidng off and in center, Hairston in left, Neifi over Walker at second...).

I do, however, feel that the cubs CAN make a significant move. they've dug themselves into a hole and will really have to play themselves out of it against atl and fla. Usually you kind of hope to be 500 against the tough teams and beat up on the bad ones, well, the cubs have to beat up on everybody for six weeks. Can they do it? I think so. but I'm not holding my breath as this is the team that lost the WC last year and has had losing streaks of 7,8, and 8 games.

what part of "dusty isnt the GM" do people have a hard time with?

heh...

here's a more probable convo..btw

hendry: i like horses
dusty: my favorite color is blue
hendry: my car is red
dusty: i want candy
hendry: do you like it when people with an agenda make baseless banter in your name to prove a point that's baseless?
dusty: yeah, man..yeah, man.

List of high profile names who have cleared waivers and ones who have been blocked...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?c...

Crunch,

I never said Baker was the GM. All I said was he has a good amount of say over roster moves. You don't think that Hendry talks to him before he makes a move? The choice was really between Holly and Murton and do you think Dusty wanted his boy to go?

"The choice was really between Holly and Murton and do you think Dusty wanted his boy to go?"

That is asking if the choice was Dusty's. Like I said previously the final say is with Hendry so he does deserve some blame. But one would have to be an idiot not to believe Dusty was happy with the choice.

Priceless Baker quote..

"The only thing about teaching at the big-league level is you can't teach them until they make a mistake," Baker said.

And this is the guy who our players look to for guidance? Frightening. Apparently our entire team has played perfect baseball so far this season. Woo hoo go Cubs!

MikeC-
Thanks for the link....Good Stuff!!!

White Sox just lost their 7th straight and still have 1 more against NYY tomorrow. If Clev and MINN win today they would be 8.5 and 9.5 back respectively. Not that I think even the CHW could blow that lead, but things aren't so sunny on the south side anymore. Their lack of hitting has finally caught up to them and will be their downfall in the playoffs.

Also, on the radio after the game the fans were ripping into Kenny Williams and mainly Ozzie. Looks like the honeymoon is over for Ozzie.

Manny, Even with the strikeouts Dubois (OBP .300) gets on base 25% more often than our pricey "leadoff man" Matt Lawton (.230/.242!!/.311).

Lawton is no improvement over Dubois on defense either.

CWTP, typing Kerry Woods is not a typo. You're point is off base. Mistyping a word cause we are not the best spellers is far different from not knowing a guy's name.

BTW, thank God we have Marc Pryor.

Also, the best part about Cubfan is his great, I TOLD YOU SO, post that is coming, the day another team clinches the wild card. That will be too funny to miss.

Also funny how LaTroy cleared waivers. Now, I know what that all means but name me any team in the playoff hunt that wouldn't kill for a 'lights out' set up man. I guess ever GM knows the truth.

"CWTP, typing Kerry Woods is not a typo."

Tell that to the bunch who used to bitch endlessly everytime I did it.

DUSTY'S KINDA GUY--HE WOULD FIT RIGHT IN HERE

Jeff Francoeur has no BB's in his first 124 (or so) AB's since entering the Bigs, the longest streak of not walking to start a career since NEIFI PEREZ went 114 AB's before getting his first walk in 1997.

THE COMPETITION

Speaking of the Braves, 1980 was the last time a Bobby Cox team lost as many as 3 games in a row, While Dusty Baker has had 3 skids of at least 7 games this year alone.

CWTP:
"Speaking of the Braves, 1980 was the last time a Bobby Cox team lost as many as 3 games in a row, While Dusty Baker has had 3 skids of at least 7 games this year alone."

WTF are you talking about??? The Braves lost 4 games in a row THIS year (May 16-20). They also lost 3 in a row on Jul 9-14 (AS BREAK). OMG!!!!

I understand you, and others, hate Dusty, but now you are just going to make up stuff to try and make him look bad. HA HA HA

Sometimes I feel bad to be a Cubs fan, and not becasue they haven't won a WS in almost 100 years. When I lived on the East Coast I always thought the fans were so smart and great, but since I moved to Chicago, I realized that ain't true....

CWTP,
Oh yeah, the Braves lost today too and that makes another 3 game losing streak. :)

#141 Mike C,

I commented on that statement yesterday or day before. I was floored by it. Talk about reactionary management. No wonder a team doesn't manufacture runs. They are managed with a reactionary style. Man gets on base..you see what your hitters are going to do with the pitchers pitches...runners on 1st and 2nd no out...you react to the pitchers pitches rather than create runs...you react...

I hope little Darrin Baker didn't have to burn his hand on the stove before he was told the stove was hot and would hurt him. Pro athletes may be adults but in life learning never ceases and we don't always learn merely from mistakes. We also learn from successes. Baker in that statement showed us why Murton isn't here--he is incapable of teaching. Baker showed why this team is merely .500.....because the law of averages say you win some and lose some and you can never steal a game if you are always reacting to mistakes rather than trying to make successes and make the other team make mistakes.

You can be proactive or reactive...Dusty showed in this statement he is reactionary...and not proactive in the least.

Manny What if the Braves fall out of 1st place...is that good news for the Cubs?

Cubfan:
"Manny What if the Braves fall out of 1st place...is that good news for the Cubs?"

No. Because right now we are 8 games back from ATL in loss column AND that would also mean one of the WC teams most likely got hot.

Line-up:

Lawton
Walker
Lee
Aram
Burny
Barrett
Perez
Cpat
Rusch

Manny,

Exactly...just weren't sure where you were going with Atlanta. Atlanta needs to win the division and win it big by beating all the wild card chasing teams ahead of us for us to have any remote chance...

(though I still think it's impossible we pass by all the teams in front of us in the next 40 games)

CWTP,

Speaking of typos, I assume your claim about the braves not losing 3 games in a row since 1980 was one, or that you were making some sort of a joke. The Braves have had dozens and dozens of three game losing streaks in the last 25 years.

And it would be a very good thing for the Cubs if the Braves started to lose and dropped into the WC hunt -- that just creates an alternative team to leapfrog (not an extra one). However, as Manny points out it wouldn't be good if someone like Philly catches them by getting hot -- that would not bode well for us.

Manny, don't be so down on Cubs fans! We all express frustration in different ways. I hope you feel that the vast majority are "good" -- you are one of them, after all!

Did you read CWTP post? That is where I was going??? He said: "1980 was the last time a Bobby Cox team lost as many as 3 games in a row,".

Let alone is that not true, they have had 2 3-game losing streaks AND a 4 game losing streak THIS YEAR. I want ATL to win out and beat every team they play, just like STL.

Dammit, where is Nomar? He said he was ready to go.

433:
"Manny, don't be so down on Cubs fans! We all express frustration in different ways. I hope you feel that the vast majority are "good" -- you are one of them, after all!"

Don't know if this is sarcastic or not, but assuming it isn't, it is just tough not to get down on Cubs fans when I read/hear all this crap everyday. But i ain't going anywhere and will be rooting them on and watching the scoreboards to hope they can still get in the playoffs.

"Also, on the radio after the game the fans were ripping into Kenny Williams and mainly Ozzie. Looks like the honeymoon is over for Ozzie"

This proves why Sox fans are stupid and why I hate them. That team has performed way over their heads because of Guillen. Did they think they would play .700 ball all year. What was Williams going to do at the deadline for them. Wagner wasn't avalible. TB wanted the moon for Baez and Huff. I guess he could have got Guaradado from SEA. Do they really want Griffey? He is the most over paid athelte in sports. I do hope they get him because he is due for his annual hamstring tear any day now.

to parachat everyone

I think the White Sox, much like WASH on a bigger scale were winning with smoke and mirrors. They won a ton of low scoring and close 1 run games early. It is now catching up to them and now their pitching is coming back to reality. I don't think they have to worry about the playoffs, but i don't think they will get very far when they get there.

To the Bat Cave! Oh wait....

Cubfan: Murton was one of the hotter hitters on the team the past few weeks....and gets demoted.

Murton was not one of the hottest hitters on the team over the last few weeks.

Look...I am a big Murton fan, and I don't think he should have been demoted (at least not while people like Holly and Macias are still on the team), but Murton has not hit the ball well over the last few weeks.

Murton in August: .182/.217/.318 - those were definitely not some of the best numbers on team in August, were they? Again, I like Murton, and part of his poor numbers are due to his lack of play. But you cannot argue that he was one of the hottest hitters on the team over the last few weeks.

Chad: And Crunch, besides some a-holes around here, no one cares about your spulling.

Chad...you are the same one telling me that I knew nothing about baseball because I spelled Roger Clemens name wrong. Not sure what that would make you then...

Sorry...I probably shouldn't have made that last comment. I realized that right after I posted it. Chad...I am not trying to personally attack you, but I am pointing out inconsistencies.

Lets hope Rusch has LOTS of command and control tonight...we need to win this game.

Anyone know Peralta's contract? I was thinking he was only signed to a one year deal with the Indians in the offseason. He would be a nice option at short next year.

Peralta signed a one year contract, but I am not sure that he would be eligible for free agency yet, after three years of service.

GEEZ, FOR THE BAZILLIONTH TIME, Manny (et.al)!! Check the story out before you jump the gun and lose your composure. (Why do you find it necessary by the way?) "The claim" about Bobby Cox is not mine.

I apologize that the link didn't work. Not that you would have bothered to check it out. And I find it hard to believe you even care.

HERE'S WHAT HE WROTE

"Streak-proof

While the Cubs have had three losing streaks of at least seven games this season, and Kansas City has endured the mother of all skids, 1980 was the last time a Bobby Cox team lost as many as three games in a row.

That's 25 years, which is simply amazing. Having Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz helped but don't overlook Cox's steady hand in the clubhouse. His teams always seem to remain clam, seldom pressing."

CWTP-
You did not include a link, what were we suppose to think of such a inaccurate statement like that. And who exactly said that?? thanks!! The link is for this thread.

So, which do you think is more likely. Bluewater Pennant plagarised Phil Rogers, and then had to admit he was stealing someone else's work when it turned out to be flat out wrong. Or Bluewater Pennant IS Phil Rogers, perhaps the worst writer in the history of baseball?

Dave I don't know if your still reading this but spelling Clemens as Clemons is not a typo. Typing diffrence instead of difference is. See?

Phil Rogers wrote that about Bobby Cox in Sunday's Tribune. What a joke.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnis...

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