Laughing at the Schedulers

GAME 137 IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (66-70) @ ST LOUIS CARDINALS (87-50) BUSCH STADIUM, 1:15 pm CDT, TV: WGN, FSMW
Fifteen of the Cubs' last twenty-seven games are against either the St Louis Cardinals or the Houston Astros, for there was supposed to be a big three horse race down the stretch. But none of the teams have kept their end of the bargain. The Cubs fell out of things far too soon, and the Astros have had serious problems scoring runs. The Cardinals, meanwhile, just picked up where they left off last year, and ran away with the division before the others had even noticed it was gone. What the Cardinals have done so far this year is remarkable. This is a team that's been without Scott Rolen, Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker and Yadier Molina for large chunks of the season, that's had to weather the decline of Jim Edmonds, and that was thoroughly ripped off in the Mark Mulder trade. And yet, regardless, they've put the excuses aside, and have simply got on with the business of winning, day in and day out. As much as I hate to say, I wish our Cubs were more like these Cards.
Jeff Suppan, RHP
13-10, 3.90 ERA
88/52 K/BB, 21 HR in 161.2 IP
Mark Prior, RHP
10-5, 3.72 ERA
154/45 K/BB, 23 HR in 138.0 IP
LF Jerry Hairston Jr SS David Eckstein
SS Ronny Cedeno 3B *Abraham Nunez
1B Derrek Lee 1B Albert Pujols
RF *Jeromy Burnitz CF *Jim Edmonds
3B Nomar Garciaparra RF *Larry Walker
2B *Todd Walker 2B Mark Grudzielanek
C Henry Blanco LF *John Rodriguez
CF *Corey Patterson C Einar Diaz
P Mark Prior P Jeff Suppan
Mark Prior and his frigging home runs. His last time out in Busch stadium, he allowed three home runs in a single inning, and on the year now he's up to 23. That's the biggest reason that his ERA stands at 3.72, not exactly the ace-like figure we were hoping for.
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Comments

wow....0 comments 2 hours later during a cubs-cards game in september. that kinda says it all about this season.

no murton again....two days on the bench after his second career homer. after his first of course he got sent to the minors shortly thereafter. i guess for his third he'll only be benched for one game.

what is the deal with that article in the suntimes about hendry and dusty getting extensions this spring?! crazy talk. neither has shown that they merit more years until we see how next year goes, and dusty probably doesn't even merit seeing the end of his deal. no way they get extensions before the 06 season starts.

Is there a game on..?

Yeah...things are getting ugly too...

As the Cards jump to a 6-2 lead today it occurs to me that:

There's something about the Cubs this year.

There's something odd bod about Mark Prior.
There's something no-braino about Carlos Zambrano.
There's something bull-headed about Kerry Wood.
There's something retiring about Gregg Maddux.

There's something not-really-a Cub-yet about Jerome Williams.
There's something pasty & hasty about Glendon Rusch.
There's something still dumpy about Ryan Dempster.
There's something excremental about our bullpen.

There's something painfully gyroscopic about Jerry Hairston.
There's something MVP about Derrek L. Lee.
There's something pleasantly NOT-Neifi about Ronny Cedeno.
There's something really professional about Jeromy Burnitz.

There's something better-than-Barrett about Henry Blanco.
There's something bring-me-back-next-year about Nomar Garciaparra.
There's something he's-cheap-but-under-appreciated about Todd Walker.
There's something he's-cheaper-but-over-appreciated about Jose Macias.
There's something Rafael-Palmeiro-before-the-juice about Matt Murton.

There's something FAN-tastic about KKKorey Patterson.

There's something pseudo-intellectual about Dusty Baker.
There's something total-corporate-weenie about Jim Hendry.
There's something fat & ineffectual about Andy McFail.

And There's something propeller-hat beanie about us Cub fans.

I think whenever people see Hairston and Korey in the lineup it depresses people to the point that they don't feel like posting.

I also hear that the Cubs are leaning towards dumping Nomah and resigning Neifi. Baker and Hendry seemed to imply that Cedeno would be the starting SS next yr, but if Baker is still in charge, you can expect to see Neifi getting the majority of PT next yr. Which is unfortuate, but true. I think Cedeno can turn into a real solid player.

What the Cubs need to do is try to sign Brian Giles. He would be an ideal person to hit in front of D Lee because he likes to walk. And forget about Rafael Furcal. His average isn't much better, if at all, than Neifi and really only gives you speed. Speed is not worth paying an extra 8 mil/yr for. I would also love to see Wellemayer in the rotation. His stats never look too good, but it seems like he has about 3 or 4 dominant outings, then gets rocked. If I could have a starter who was lights out 4 out of 5 starts, I'd take it.

Well I've taken up enough of everyone's time. Hope 06 is a hell of a lot better than 05 for the Cubbies.

Macias? anyone else expecting a double play?

Well...the DP came...just not from the guy I was expecting.

C'mon why was Cedeno pinch hit for there and with a guy like Macias? If Hendry is fooled by Baker that Cedeno will be the starter if Neifi returns then he needs go because if Baker can get the best of him what in the hell will Billy and Theo do to him. Actually know that I think of that Hendry has done quite well in trades with Theo. He was able to steal Murton from him courtesy of Minaya and Jimmy Anderson for Shipman was a felcing of the highest order.

And the Sun-times have assessed the situation and have determined the Big Two will probably be offered a TWO year contract extension.

That's nuts.

re: #5: Bravo CWTP!

Nothing like building up Cedeno's confidence in himself by pulling him out of a bases loaded, no-out situation in the 9th inning (I don't care who the pinch-hitter was) in an absolutely meaningless game for 2005.

One minute Hairston is not qualified defensively to play left field because its actually more difficult to play than center according to the manager ... and now that the only remaining vet has been traded in Holly, he's getting just about all the starts in LF. The bullshit just keeps on rolling ...

CFIG,
Here are theanswers to your post on the other Thread.

On Dunn: I think your refering to post 6 where I was talking about Nolasco. What I was saying is I don't want Nolasco traded I threw in the unless Dunn part to stop the 10 posts about well you wouldn't trade him for player X. On Dunn for Prior I would do that in a heartbeat. Dunn is a 50 Homer guy who has a .400 OBP who can run pretty well for a guy with those skill sets. Prior is on the Kerry Wood track and if I had the chance to trade him for an elite player I would do it. The only "Ace" on this staff is Z and he gets 5% of the pub Wood and Prior do.

On Soriano: We have 3 position players coming back (Lee, Ram, and Barrett). Lee and Ram are our 3 and 4 hitters. Barrett is a 6-8 hitter. That leaves the OF and MI to fill the 1,2,5, and of 6,7,8 spots. We need OBP guys for the 1 and 2 spots. For the 5th spot we need a guy that will make pitchers throw to Ram. Let's look at the candidates () is their SLG% the last 3 years.

Dunn (.530) Is not going to the Cubs and would cost the farm to get anyways.

Giles (.496) Too old and why would he want to leave SD he is from there and its the most beautiful part of the country.

Matsui (.480) Despite having the worst SLG of the bunch would be my personal chioce because of how clutch he is. He ain't leaving NY though.

Soriano (.513) The 2nd best SLG of the group and the most avialble of the four. At RF where I think he would play with the Cubs with his speed and arm he would be at least an average OF that with his bat you can get away with.

Here are the ST stories:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt...
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-k...

This team isn't worth watching until the off season...at least in the off season we won't have to watch the manager put up bad lineup after bad lineup, bad double switches, pinch hitting Macias or playing the only veteran he has in LF to get K-orey more futile at bats. I never thought Dusty would want to play Hairston daily after how he treated him the first 2-3 months of the season. So it shows how he deals with his stubborn priorities.

Once Holly was gone it came down to this:

"Veteran I dislike vs. talented rookie"...hmmm, that's a dusty no brainer.

In the pregame on radio Dustbuster said he was going to play Neifi until the cardinals switched starters (from Morris to Suppan). Neifi's stats vs Suppan are bad...so we got Ronnie Cedeno today although he wasn't planning on it originally. Tomorrow against Morris it'll be back to Neifi.

So we got that not to look forward to. Like I said, this isn't worth watching and it's the lineups selection that makes it easy for me to not watch.

Too bad the Cubs are back to their long standing status quo of being more fun to follow in the off season than the regular season.

On Dunn for Prior I would do that in a heartbeat.

Are you serious? The Reds would do that in a heartbeat. There is no way the Cubs would ever trade Prior straight up for Dunn.

I like Dunn...a lot. But he is not worth Mark Prior.

That idea is about as good as playing Nomar in center.

Dave,

Prior has not on a consisant basis been the pitcher he was in 03. Yes he looked good for the 1st part of this year but that Hawpe play seemed to have done something to him. He has only had two great starts since then. His Jul.14th start vs. Pit and Aug. 19th at COL. Other than that he has been average or real bad. I admit I misspoke by saying I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I think when your talking about a hitter like Dunn that you have to consider it. I would want CIN to include Ryan Wagner in the trade though. But we all know this is not going happen. On the Nomar playing CF thing all I said is try it for 3 games in this lost season and see if it works. With all the players were going to find for the line-up next year we might have to put some square pegs in round holes and see how it works. It probably won't but watching him in the field in CF can't be worse than watching CPAT hit. BY the way WT won the 2ndhalf title too. They will play Carliona (Marlins) in the 1st round of the SL playoffs.

Prior has not on a consisant basis been the pitcher he was in 03. Yes he looked good for the 1st part of this year but that Hawpe play seemed to have done something to him.

Of course it did...but it hasnt been that long.

There is no way that Dunn is worth Mark Prior. Prior is a guy that you can and should build a whole team around. You don't trade away an ace like prior for anyone other than Pujols or Bonds (a few years ago). Even then I would hesitate.

Prior is that good.

adam dunn?

john hill...

okay, i found this buried in a post a few back and i gotta touch on this one cuz i totally missed it...

"On the other hand, I am quite simply dumb-founded by people such as yourself, and Crunch, that seem to be continuing to insist that Dusty is doing a good job."

ive never said dusty is doing a good job. ive said he's doing a predictable job. ive said he's doing an ordinary job. ive said i got very little problems with most of the stuff he does.

i have never said he's doing a good job to my knowlege.

ive spent a LOT more time talking about problems with this team's bench/injury/bullpen problems waaaaay more than ive mentioned the lineup jockey cuz i have about as much respect for one as i do yosh.

these overpaid babysitters can only do with what theyre dealt. what i have praised dusty for, his main tool, is how he individually and effectively deals with his players and their role through the course of 200 days of the season.

people can go around blaming dusty all they want, but at the end of the day you still got the same group of players out there to stick into places.

seriously, there's a lot more problems with a team than a manager when people are seriously bitching cuz dubois/cedeno/murton arent playing in every game they can possibly can and people are begging kerry wood to join the bullpen.

fix these issues, then i'll give a rat's ass about what overpaid lineup jockey "ruins" another cubs game by picking 1 suck player over another suck player to start or pinchhit a single.

you'd think macias had 300ab's this year and dubois never played more than 50ab's from the sound of it.

Crunch, my very next line began "I could understand if you feel that Dusty is doing a good enough job not to be fired, simply because there is no quick-fix managerial alternative that's going to solve all our problems, which do indeed go far beyond Dusty, [...]". I could understand that. If that's what you're saying, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can understand it.

Look, there's three ways of looking at this. One, Dusty's doing a good job. Let's call this the Manny viewpoint. Two, Dusty's doing a bad job that's compromising the team and he therefore ought to be fired. The majority viewpoint. Three, Dusty, like all managers, doesn't make that much difference either way and therefore shouldn't be earning $4m a year, though of course the money has already been spent and can't be salvaged. The Crunch viewpoint. My own personal viewpoint is a combination of the Crunch and the majority. Dusty's not helping this team, rather he's hindering it, but it's negligent to overstate that case and ignore the fault of others.

For instance, I think all three possible viewpoints reflect badly on Hendry. One, if this is a good job from Dusty, then the problem must be the players, or rather the General Manager that signed those players in the mistaken belief that they're good enough. Two ey, if Dusty's doing a bad job and Hendry knows it, and he's only not firing him because he's staked his own job and reputation on Dusty succeeding, then Hendry too is compromising the team. Two bee, if Dusty's doing a bad job and Hendry can't see that, then he clearly lacks the grasp of the bigger picture that's required to be a General Manager. Three, if Dusty's not making any difference one way or another, then Hendry made a big mistake devoting so much of the Tribune's money to him and simultaeneously staking his own job and reputation on the toothpick too.

On the whole I think that Hendry is a solid General Manager. He's definately got a very good feel for the deal, he's managed to turn over he vast majority of the roster in his time here, for the better on the whole, and while he's done that with the significant aid of more money from the Tribune, he's done a pretty good job avoiding bad contracts. All that said, he reacts to problems rather than anticipating them, he makes a lot of internal roster moves that are at best dubois and at worst negligent, leading me to believe he doesn't know as much about his own players as he should, and neither am I convinced that he has the best grasp of the bigger picture either, whether in terms of the Dusty problem (whether or not it's a problem for the team, it's a problem for him), in terms of making deadline deals when the team is already sunk (Lawton) or in terms of an effective long-term plan for this franchise. He's a real mixed bag, and I'm no longer sure if him sticking around is the best thing for this team.

The players also have to accept their fair share of the blame. At the end of the day, Dusty hasn't thrown a pitch or swung a bat all year.

Cedeno and Hairston are out for the year.

Cedeno and Hairston are out for the year.

Maybe they missed a sign.

Of course if Hairston is back in the dog house, Dustbuster will be forced to play Murton.

or is Dusty's sign to the fans a raised middle finger?

Baker seethes over more sign miscues
Hairston, Cedeno, Walker singled out for basepath blunders

"We keep going over them and over them and over them," Baker fumed. "It seems like the same guys are missing signs. You keep going over them, but you ought to have the signs by Sept. 5."

Great, here's the new plan: all Macias all the time. He doesn't miss signs, he's just mediocre all the time.

Sounds as though Cedeno understood that it was a hit and run, but, not knowing what to do when he saw that Hairston wasn't running, decided to bunt. As opposed to him misunderstanding the sign in the first place.

Whereas Neifi, being an experienced veteran, would have understood that a hit and run was on, for he's never missed a sign in his life, and, even upon seeing that Hairston wasn't running, he wouldn't have panicked or made a silly decision. Instead, he'd have slapped away as always, regardless of where the pitch was, perfectly executing his usual swinging bunt.

Did anyone see what Cedeno managed to do in the top of the sixth inning with two outs? Yes, that's right, he drew a walk on six pitches, offering just one swing (he fouled off the 2-1) even though just one of Suppan's pitches wasn't close. Neifi Perez, incidentally, has drawn just 12 non-intentional walks the entire year, in exactly 500 plate appearances. Anyway, Cedeno's walk kept the inning alive, and the inning eventually resulted in two runs.

That made up for the two runs that Cedeno effectively gave away in the bottom of the previous inning when a hard hit ball went through him at shortstop with first and second two outs (no excuses, he should have made the play). He did though prevent a third run scoring in that inning with a spectacular bare-handed play to get Abraham Nunez at the plate after Barrett had thrown his recovery of the wild pitch past Prior.

Cedeno at the plate also popped out (on a 1-1 count), lined out to right field on a very well-hit ball (on a 2-0 count), and had that sacrifice bunt thing. In the field he also made a routine 6-3 play and made a nice dive to keep an Abraham Nunez hit in the infield and prevent Eckstein going to third in the eighth (though it didn't matter in the end because Pujols homered).

On the whole? A mixed game for Cedeno. Enough to play again today? Yes. Will he? I'd bet not.

That was Blanco that threw the ball away, not Barrett.

Ah yes, I always do that. I should though know better than to think that Barrett could ever throw away the ball in a runner on third wild pitch situation.

"Nomar will be cheap next year and can solve one of the OF holes"

Can't we get a cheaper OF to play OF rather than a SS who has a hard time staying healty who will get more money due to his SS-ness?

I have to imagine the answer is yes...

Can't we get a cheaper OF to play OF rather than a SS who has a hard time staying healty who will get more money due to his SS-ness?

Who do you have in mind that would provide a better bat? I would guess that Nomar signs a deal for less than this year, with big incentives. I have no problem paying Nomar big incentives, because if he is healthy, he will be worth every penny.

Really...who would be cheaper that could meet the production of a healthy Nomar?

Nomar will last about 1 week in left field. He'll flop on the grass in April and you won't see him again until July or August. I don't know why Cubs fans can't keep from getting attached to a player because of his name.

I don't know why Cubs fans can't keep from getting attached to a player because of his name.

It has nothing to do with his name. It has everything to do with his ability to hit. If he can stay healthy, he is one of the best hitters in baseball.

Since coming off the DL: .329/.368/.620

Those are some pretty darn good numbers.

That's horseshit. People love "Nomar".
---
"If he can stay healthy, he is one of the best hitters in baseball."
---
That disclaimer is so friggin' old. He's proven for 3 years that he CAN NOT stay healthy.
On top of that, his D is just bad and he won't stay healthy 1 month in the outfield.
Throw cash at Giles & Furcal instead. The Cubs have money and Dustbag will actually play those guys.

John, I was just pointing it out, not implying anything else.

"Neifi Perez, incidentally, has drawn just 12 non-intentional walks the entire year,"

John Hill,

Who would intententionally walk Neifi.

"Dusty, like all managers, doesn't make that much difference either way and therefore shouldn't be earning $4m a year, though of course the money has already been spent and can't be salvaged. The Crunch viewpoint."

that's it. perfect assessment of my view.

its not like EVERY manager of any team with more than 10 fans doesnt have a firewhatshisface.com page.

jim f'n tracy...a guy i consider well above average and a better in-game manager than dusty (and larussa and torre and etc)has every move he makes picked apart and then some.

and as "easy" and obvious as it is for people to say who sucks and who doesnt and who's the man and who's not...people still blame bos/oak/la's managers for massive problems picking every move they make ignoring the fact the supposed GM brains of baseball who run these new school teams with ruthless statistic efficiency keep them around.

boston's problems are fickle fans and trying to compete with a $200m team in their division who cant appreciate their wins...oakland's problem is a payroll smaller than its ability to keep tallent....la's problem is staying healthy.

all the managers of these teams make questionable moves and make the occasional screwy lineup, but most of the time they're playing what they got around. i see a lot more problems with the tallent pool than who the lifeguard is at this point in the game.

Crunch, why do you bother? Seriously?

I have to admit, coming here has educated me on some things about Dusty that I didn't really notice before. However, the hatred is so out of whack with reality, it's depressing. All of your posts are pissing in the wind here, much as I agree with you.

i'll run my mouth just to read my own thoughts i think.

hehe...i just like to interject my voice amongst all the weirdness.

yeah, dusty is far from perfect and he's not automatic and he's not the most awesome thing ever, but this is a team with more player problems than player management problems.

i dunno how some can ignore 30+ atbats in a game and concentrate on 1 pinch hit performance where a .300 ob% contact hitter was picked over a .320 ob% free swinger.

i dunno how some can think a magical bullpen shuffle would turn the extreme losses and ineffectiveness into something even remotely solid.

yeah, the little things matter, but the big things are too ineffective/unhealthy/etc. to make the little things matter too much.

Crunch said:

i dunno how some can ignore 30+ atbats in a game and concentrate on 1 pinch hit performance where a .300 ob% contact hitter was picked over a .320 ob% free swinger.

Considering that this may refer to me harping on Dusty pinch-hitting Macias over, say Holly or Murton or whoever, I'll respond: it's not one at-bat, dammit, it's that all season long, Dusty has made bad choices. Macias's ABs are a good example, so let's run with that.

Lookit: Jose F. Macias's OBP this year for around 135 PA is .287 - that's around 38-39 baserunners, overwhelmingly through singles. Trot up a league-average player, with a .330 OBP, and you have 44-45 baserunners, and more extra-base hits to boot. This isn't a huge, overwhelming difference, but why in the world would you want Dusty to piss away 6 or 8 baserunners, and a few homers and doubles (maybe 12-14 total bases all told?), in pinch-hit situations? It just can't be blown off - decisions like that, over the course of a season, cost runs and therefore games. Compound that with Dusty giving away outs through ill-advised bunts, playing scrub vets rather than promising kids, driving pitchers' arms into the ground, etc. etc., and I think it's clear that he's personally cost the Cubs at least a few games this year.

Clearly this Cubs team isn't a pack of world-beaters; at best, with a competent manager, they might be within shouting distance of the Wild Card (maybe). And no doubt, Dusty isn't swinging the bats. But he's not blameless, and his decisions do have consequences; I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise, but some folks around here do indeed still trusty in Dusty. Count me in the majority: he's incompetent, he's costing the Cubs runs (and therefore games), and he's got to go.

"Jose F. Macias's OBP this year for around 135 PA is .287 - that's around 38-39 baserunners, overwhelmingly through singles. Trot up a league-average player, with a .330 OBP, and you have 44-45 baserunners, and more extra-base hits to boot."

who's this .330ob% guy with pop we've had around?

jose macias...when his 2 years are up...will have played 2 injury laden seasons with 2/3rd of a single season's worth of at-bats.

and most of the year off the bench, aside from guys with days off, you got your choice of macias or a host of other .300-ish ob% guys...

no, you're not gonna have a bench full of .350ob% guys, but this team has had pure crap aside from a left handed specialist in murton for a few weeks and hairston when he wasnt filling in for the suck of corey or the injury of walker...which has been a lot.

and that still does nothing about having one of the worst pens in mlb up until this past month.

even with wuertz/ohman/novoa doing well over the past month+, they werent doing it before and their roles havent been changed so dramatically that things are clicking solely because of the role theyre in.

Morpheus--"I was just pointing it out, not implying anything else."

I know, and thanks. I was just joking about Barrett's play against the Phillies.

ChiFan--"Who would intententionally walk Neifi?"

Well, this year, Joey Eischen (Was, July 3rd, bottom 11, tied at 4, 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs and Henry Blanco on deck), Lance Cormier (Ari, July 30th, bottom 6, tied at 2, 2nd and 3rd, 2 out and Matt Murton on deck) and Brian Fuentes (@Col, top 9, Cubs leading 5-3, 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs and Corey Patterson on deck). All three times, incidentally, the next batter made an out to end the inning, thus somewhat vindicating the tactic. Corey and Murton struckout, and Henry Blanco grounded out to shortstop.

How on earth can you call Matt Murton a "left-handed specialist" at this stage? Dusty may be using him as one, for he's had all of 28 at-bats against right-handers. While they haven't been successful ones, I'm pretty sure that in order to hit for average, as Murton has always done and as he projects to do in the majors, he's at least somewhat capable of connecting against those not throwing from the left-side.

Crunch, if managers don't make any real difference, why do teams continue to hire them and pay them lots of money? Just because they always have done, in the same way they've always used RBI as a measure of a hitter?

"How on earth can you call Matt Murton a "left-handed specialist" at this stage?"

cuz at this point that's what he is.

until he can turn inside on righties who can pound him inside and breaking stuff he's just not going to be the hitter he hopefully will be eventually.

lets not forget this is a guy who's gotten a lotta infield hits and some of them weren't too pretty.

he has a very obvious, glaring, huge as hell hole vs. righties that can go inside on him and theyre using it.

what he can be just isnt what he is in 05.

For the record, Matt Murton hit .332/.388/.459 against right-handers in 196 at-bats this year at West Tennessee (4 home runs, 18 walks, 26 strikeouts), and at Iowa he hit .280/.379/.440 against righties in 25 at-bats this year at Iowa (0 home runs, 2 walks, 6 strikeouts).

Certainly the major leagues are very much a different proposition, because the standard of the pitching is that much better planned and executed, not to mention that the stuff involved is far better too, but those aren't the kind of numbers that suggest what Murton's shown in a whopping 28 Major League at-bats this year against right-handers is that significant a flaw. Even if it was, how is Murton going to improve against the superior right-handers at the Major League level if he's denied the chance to routinely practise against them?

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