Harang’ing around

GAME 144 IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CINCINNATI REDS (66-76) @ CHICAGO CUBS (71-72) WRIGLEY FIELD, 7:05 pm CDT, TV: CSN
Greg Maddux, RHP
12-11, 4.28 ERA
116/32 K/BB, 24 HR in 189.1 IP
Aaron Harang, RHP
9-12, 3.60 ERA
146/50 K/BB, 16 HR in 185.0 IP
2B Ryan Freel CF Jerry Hairston Jr.
SS #Felipe Lopez SS #Neifi Perez
2B Rich Aurilia. 1B Derrek Lee
LF *Adam Dunn 3B Nomar Garciaparra
1B *Sean Casey 2B *Todd Walker
RF Austin Kearns RF #Jose Macias
C #Javier Valentin LF Matt Murton
CF Wily Mo Pena C Henry Blanco
P Aaron Harang P Greg Maddux
As I pointed out in this week's organizational report, Maddux has 4 more chances to win 3 games and they may skip someone else's start so that he gets 5 more chances. I'm not sure how I feel about that, forcing your way to a record doesn't seem like the right way to go about things, on the other hand skipping what most likely will be a Glendon Rusch start, doesn't mean anything to me either. What's worse, Macias starting, or Macias hitting ahead of Murton? Tough call... The Cubs march on.... Go Cubs!!!
Return to Homepage

Comments

There goes Maddog's streak. Oh well.

And by the way, Macias at second three days in a row? $%&*^*^%&*&^*(^&!!!!!

rumor has it that maddux is going to pitch every two days until he gets to 15....seriously, murton's patience would make him an excellent #2 hitter behind a base stealing lead off man...

Brings Burnie in, and moves to Macias to second. WTF?????

Dusty is the streak killer. Check back to the Toronto gamea after the West Coast Swing. Who's in the starting lineup that night? Jose Macias. Coincidence, I don't think so.

Bonds just hit one to the opposite field gap, about a foot below the top of the wall. We thought it was a HR first, but it was ruled correctly to a ground rule double, b/c a fan grabbed it. About an 11 or 12 pitch at bat. Amazing.

Why call up Theriot or anybody else? The season is over and they should have saved the 50k. Hairston could play SS in an emergency sitution. Why didn't they just walk WMP in the 8th and bring up Harang. It forces Narron to either waste a chance to score runs by keeping Harang in there or pinch hit and lose Harang who had been lights out.

Hairston could play SS in an emergency sitution.

What does that have to do with Theriot? He doesn't play SS. And the Cubs have 2 SS on the MLB roster anyway - Nomar and Neifi. And I would guess that Nomar will go back to SS if Ramirez returns.

What does that have to do with Theriot?

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/p...

They list him as a SS.

he's played 3rd most of this year..he's a natural SS...he's got a strong arm.

between him and fontenot and on a higher tier cedeno, theyre 3 of the most likely cubs utility IF of the future...

cedeno is about the only out of them who's got a chance to play everyday.

theriot is just too weak with the bat to play everyday as of now (aka, bobby hill)...great glove supposedly no matter where you stick him.

Guess you are right...every where I looked earlier today had him listed as a 3b.

I still say it doesn't really matter, as the Cubs have a backup SS on the roster.

I think Murton and Dusty have a deal. Murton only stays in the lineup against right-handers if he hits a home run every day.

Incidentally, here's a newsflash: Sergio Mitre is not a reliever. Not that I haven't been saying that for absolutely frigging ages.

Last night was a great night to be a Cub fan if you're willing to dwell in the land of McFail. Nothing proves this team is on the right track more than Dontrell Willis winning his 21st game. If only the shirt he insists on wearing didn't read Florida. At some point some of these wins must revert to the Cubs otherwise, WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANDY HAVE EVEN BROUGHT IT UP???!!!

I don't see any comments about the actual game here, but it looks like they lost from the ambiance. Hard to tell, though. Things are always bitter here.

On a more interesting note, what is it about Harang that seems to baffle the Cubs?

Can't resist this for a chuckle: I'm following my old team Midland Rockhounds (Texas league, AA) from my eight years in Midland TX, currently playing for TL championship.
Hounds pummeled Davidson of the Travelers in the first inning, and his line, and ERA for the TLCS is:

0.1 3 6 5 1 0 0 135.00

Yes, that is an ERA of 135.00 :) "Try to keep in double digits, willya?"

The ugliest pitching line I've seen this year is...

24 year old at short-season A-Ball
14 G, 6.2 IP, 14 H, 26 R, 23 ER, 0 HR, 30 BB, 4 K, 31.05 ERA

Let's just say this guy was the Rule 5 draftee of ours from last year that didn't get away.

The hitting line for Cubs left fielders other than Murton this season:

.249/.294/.386

For comparison

Neifi
.282/.308/.398

Macias
.271/.292/.323

And here's the guy those cumulative chumps replaced in left field:

Alou
.316/.403/.496

This is all a conspiracy - Dusty is trying hard, very hard, to kill me.

Why else would Macias start in right?

Nothing proves this team is on the right track more than Dontrell Willis winning his 21st game. If only the shirt he insists on wearing didn't read Florida.

Speaking of Florida, oddsmakers have just installed them as Wild Card Favorites at 11-10.

Houston is 12-10 (6-5)

But the Cubs have slid as low as they go at 75-1 (the Pirates will only get you 75-1).

HOWEVER, according to my projections, if the Cubs continue to play ball NO WORSE than they have all season, these favorable late season matchups will result in an 82-80 record. In fact Andy McFail, Dim Hendry, and Dusty Faker should be fired if they finish under .500 .

To finish 82-80 Cubs must go 11-7:

Cincy 1-1
St.L 2-2
Mil 2-1
Hou 4-3
Pitt 2-0

14-4 actually gets them back into the race with an 85-77 record. Presently the wild card leaders Florida and Houston are on a pace to go 86-76. However they are in the midst of a four game series with each other and have tough remaining schedules so those winning percentages could easily drop and 85 wins could be all that's needed to enter the post season.

So the Cubs are going to go 14-4 (a stretch difficult for a 100-win team to pull off) for 85-77, they'll do something like 5-2 against the Astros to render them helpless in the face of our tear, the (77-67) Marlins will be worse than 9-9, the (76-68) Phillies will be worse than 10-8, and the cow jumped over the moon. If both of those teams somehow miss those marks, then one has to look out for the Nationals going 13-5, because it'd be likely they acquired a bunch of those 13 with their six games against those teams.

Or, to put it another way: if you believe BP and the Marlins are, at heart, little better than .500 and the Cubs are likewise an 86 win-team... then we've still got a half-a-percent chance.

It is, however, cute that so many Cubs fans are oblivious to the reality that this team was a marginal player by mid-August.

Cute?

Forcing to a record? Think about it this way.

Dusty was going to play Macias and Neifi more because that "fans would appreciate it."

Let's see Maddux more because the fans will CERTAINLY appreciate THAT.

From Mike Kiley in the Sun-Times:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt...
"Baker strangely denied before Monday's game that he had told reporters Sunday in San Francisco that he would consider giving Maddux an extra start down the stretch if it becomes necessary for him to try and win 15.

''What I said was let's win three in a row and it'll be a moot point,'' Baker said.

Not exactly accurate. While saying that he wanted Maddux to win three in a row, a review of the taped conversation showed that what Baker also said was that he might work in an added start for Maddux if he needed it for a 15th win.

His reply was: ''Yeah, it depends on where we are. Certainly I'd like him to get to 15.''

Hard to misinterpret that."

I don't really have anything to add. I think the quote speaks for itself.

theriot has played mostly 3rd this year?

hmm...I fairly certain he played second and shortstop most of the year.

Matt Craig and Casey Mcgehee played 3rd for the Jaxx most of the season.

It is no big shocker. When Baker's lies and double standards are exposed he just denies it or acts like it never happened. I have never seen a manager with less integrity than Dusty Baker.

As for Maddux, he probably knows he made a bad decision coming back to the Cubs. He probably thought the organization was finally getting out of it's rut, only to find out they have not learned a damn thing. I would bet money he will just simply retire than go through another season of misery with this crap collection of talent and attitude. Much less endure another season with the village idiot Baker at the helm.

I few weeks ago an article ran somewhere where Maddux was trying to teach some players some things and then a few of them would talk back and Maddux would just say "screw it" and walk off in frustration. No idea who those players are, but if a Hall of Famer is trying to give you tips and you blow him off this team is WAYYYYYYYY to fucking stupid to win baseball games.

"So the Cubs are going to go 14-4 (a stretch difficult for a 100-win team to pull off) for 85-77"

Nobody said they were going to do it Ron. Of course it's a long shot. But you're wrong, it's not impossible. Not at all. The Cubs dismal season is entirely due to their inability to beat the East. It's all about matchups. They don't have to elevate their game much to go 14-4 playing within the Central division. Especially after going 8-2 on the road.

Incidentally, here's a newsflash: Sergio Mitre is not a reliever. Not that I haven't been saying that for absolutely frigging ages.

Might as swell insert a random crack about Zach Day and Sergio Mitre. For what it's worth, on pitches 1-15 his career ERA is 10.80.

If Baker is really trying to get Maddux 15 wins, do you honestly think he feels the best way to do that is hitting Jose Macias 6th in the lineup.

JJ, regarding Maddux and Dusty Baker.

Baker was asked directly if he'd like Maddux back next year after Maddux told reporters that he'd return in 2006 if Chicago thought he still had the ability to start for them. So what did Baker say? He said, "It's up to him (Maddux)."

What a weasel.

Then he went on to imply that Maddux was losing his pitching prowess as "pitchers do at the end of their career."

This comment came after a long Dusty diatribe about how the "blame" for this McFailure of a season needs to be spread around and not just dumped on him.

It doesn't sound like he really wants GM back at all.

I fully expect Macias to start pitching side sessions in prep for next year.

"What does that have to do with Theriot? He doesn't play SS. And the Cubs have 2 SS on the MLB roster anyway - Nomar and Neifi. And I would guess that Nomar will go back to SS if Ramirez returns."

Dave,

There thinking was that they needed a SS in case something happend to Nomar or if Ram does not come back. . All I was saying was Hairston could play SS if need be.

Sure, it's not impossible, in the sense that it isn't impossible for the Blue Jays to win their division or that it wasn't impossible for the Devil Rays to win the World Series this year.

It is, and has been for a month, highly if not prohibitively improbable. Personally, I'd like to see more of the media and passive fan base acknowledge that this team will have spent 25% of the season as an also-ran, because before you know it, we'll be having offseason discussions where some will praise the job various elements of the team did in "keeping us in the playoff hunt well into September."

"Matt Craig and Casey Mcgehee played 3rd for the Jaxx most of the season."

yup...my bad...ther's still got an arm, though.

can't wait for the "Dusty has managed only X number of meaningless games comments since whenever" that ESPN loves to spew on us. Ignoring the fact that we've been playing meaningless games since the middle of August, maybe not mathmetically, but certainly in reality.

that would involve ESPN actually talking about something sports related not going on in the north east in the boston-to-newyork corridor.

i just dont see it happening...

I also bet Greg realizes what a mistake it was to come back to Chicago, especially this season. He's getting a taste of what he missed all those years when he was playing championship baseball with the Braves. After 2003 when he faced the Cubs in the playoffs, they looked like a team built on pitching that was on the verge of something great... Maddux was fooled like everyone else.
It's really chicken-shit if the Cubs are hoping/looking for Greg to not pick up his option.

Re post #30
First of all, it IS up to Maddux if he is to return. There were articles around the time of his option kicking in about how much Dusty likes Maddux and wants him to come back. Hendry, too.

Sounds to me like Dusty wants Maddux back, but I guess it makes better fodder to say otherwise.

Baker Extends Invitation to Maddux
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id...

Baker Hopes Maddux Returns
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

MikeC--"I would bet money he will just simply retire than go through another season of misery"

If you're suggesting that Maddux will retire before seeing out his contract with the Cubs, I will take your money.

I also highly doubt that Maddux sees this as "misery." He's highly paid playing the game he loves, still doing it reasonably well and in a city, and ballpark, he clearly enjoys. I wouldn't assume a fan's views on the Cubs are always going to jibe with how a player feels.

i dont know why people think maddux likes anything but his money or playing the game like he was hired to play it no matter who's paying him.

maddux sat around forever 2 offseasons ago waiting for someone to hand him loot. he was offered 1 and 2 year deals from clubs and turned them down flatly cuz no one wanted to give him the money he wanted for the years he wanted to compete.

the dude was throwing 88mph and was getting hit in atl. at the end of his last season there...a season where maddux accepted arbitration and royally screwed atl's money situation causing them to freak out and make trades they didnt want to make and put off signings of FA's. btw, this was atl's fault...

now he's throwin 84/85mph and about to make 9m bucks in 06.

love or hate maddux, he's not known as a patient baseball man who loves this winning more than life.

yes, he respects the game...no, he's not a jerk...yes, he's willing to do what he's asked...but he's just a guy trying to make some scratch and do his job.

According to Baseball ref, Greg has made a ton of dough by being effective in getting ML hitters out:

1988 Chicago Cubs $82,500
1989 Chicago Cubs $275,000
1990 Chicago Cubs $437,500
1991 Chicago Cubs $2,400,000
1992 Chicago Cubs $4,200,000
1993 Atlanta Braves $5,875,000
1994 Atlanta Braves $4,975,000
1995 Atlanta Braves $6,500,000
1996 Atlanta Braves $6,675,000
1997 Atlanta Braves $6,775,000
1998 Atlanta Braves $9,600,000
1999 Atlanta Braves $10,600,000
2000 Atlanta Braves $11,100,000
2001 Atlanta Braves $12,500,000
2002 Atlanta Braves $13,100,000
2003 Atlanta Braves $14,750,000
2004 Chicago Cubs $6,000,000
Career (may be incomplete) $115,845,000

So, he has his ring and he's had his fat contracts, so I have to believe he's still pitching cause he wants to and thinks he can.

The $ can't be the motavating factor at this stage.

yeah, the man expects to be paid to do it, too.

he was very clear he wanted to be paid fair and wanted a multi-year deal.

he waited a very long time to get the deal he was looking while shoving aside other deals including 1-year deals.

he's not selfish, but he's not known for being a rah-rah guy...he's a guy who expects fair pay for a fair season's work and wants to do it on his terms.

he's gonna make 9m next year and he earned it via the contract stipulations built in as injury protection for the club. i doubt very seriously he wants to walk away from that now.

he could have been a yankee a couple years ago for christ's sake...if you really care about winning, you go to the 200million team who buys their way to the postseason by strangling the competition with money.

maddux plays the game right and he fullfilled his contract without bitching about it...what more can you ask for?

"Sounds to me like Dusty wants Maddux back, but I guess it makes better fodder to say otherwise"

GEEZ!! go read all the articles available. They're all reporting the same interview with Baker. Those headlines are extremely misleading.

What does Faker mean, he "hopes" Maddux comes back. If you really want a pitcher back who just automatically vested a 2006 contract at $9 million, you don't imply that Maddux might be so upset at the deterioration of his pitching skills that he might not return.

a big big big problem with a lotta quotes is the lack of the question that prompted it and the lack of emotion that can be conveyed in text.

a lotta dusty press conferences he's just laughing off questions giving light-commented answers.

some of this is turned into shoe-banging statements of total seriousness.

yeah, it looks bad on him sometimes, but honestly, dusty has shown he really dont give a damn what any media thinks of him as long as his players know what's up.

when other sportswriters read comments taken out of context to the question or jest of answer and repeat it to the player things can get a bit weird.

it sometimes becomes a stupid circle where a question not being answered in total seriousness becomes absolute statements of fact and serious answers to some questions become lost in the context of what question lead to the answer.

this is also why some people dont take sportswriters seriously or even care to take press events seriously.

GEEZ! The original poster took the "It's up to him" part out of context, not even bothering to post the positive quotes. I did not have time to find every single article on the subject to your satisfaction. But I think "Iíd love to have him back" is a pretty clear indication that he wants him back.

When is the last time a non-Cubs team clinched a division at Wrigley field? Because the Cardinals have a magic number of 4 heading into play tonight.

1983

"The last club to celebrate the clinching of a division title at Wrigley Field was the Philadelphia Phillies when they clinched the NL East crown Sept. 28, 1983."

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dsspo...

"Sergio threw too many strikes. That's what happens with youth."

Dusty Baker passing the buck and ripping on young players again. What a player's manager.

Hairston
Walker
Lee
Garciaparra
Burnitz
Barrett
Murton
Perez
Zambrano

best lineup I've seen in a while. Hey, wait...where's Jose?

wow, Baker made a good line-up actually.

Shouldn't Zambrano being hitter higher in this lineup? At least in front of Neifi?

Zambrano: .286/.286/.457 - OPS: .743
Neifi: .279/.304/.395 - OPS: .699

That is sad that Zambrano is a better hitter than the player with the third most at-bats on this team.

Shouldn't Zambrano being hitter higher in this lineup? At least in front of Neifi?

Zambrano: .286/.286/.457 - OPS: .743
Neifi: .279/.304/.395 - OPS: .699

That is sad that Zambrano is a better hitter than the player with the third most at-bats on this team.

If houston can get 3 from florida I believe the cubs can get in with a 14-4 record. Both the phillies and Florida have 6 games each against ATL. If atl wins 4 out of 6 Florida has to go 6-6 in the other games and Philly has to go 7-5. Florida's other games are against Philly NYM and Washington. Philly's are Florida, Cin NYM and Was. I'll make a prediction:

IF We finish 14-4 taking 5 out of 7 from Houston we will at least tie for the wild card. Unless Florida sweeps houston.

NCFAN you are absolutely delusional.

X
  • Sign in with Twitter