Today in Cubs History: 12-23

Not too much happens, generally, the closer we get to Christmas. But here's one gem: 12-23-1997 - Traded Doug Glanville to the Philadelphia Phillies. Received Mickey Morandini. I believe there will be at least one detailed article, perhaps more, posted today and tomorrow. So feel free to use this as an open-thread, while the articles stay more on-topic.
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Reggie Sanders,
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/spor...

Sanders now a Royal

Reggie Sanders said Thursday that he has agreed to a two-year, $10 million contract that is expected to be signed today.

hmmmm.....hard to believe they have signed anyone, but their money is still green

R. Sanders
M. Grudzielanek
D. Mientkiewicz
P. Bako

I'd have liked sanders in a 4th OF/platoon type role, but 2/10 for a 38 y/o? Makes the jjones deal look better. Also, X in the last thread nailed it on the head about prior, I would hate like hell to see him go, but I guess it depends on if you want to win now or later...I say now, and I say keep him. I don't think tejada's worth it for one, and I think the cubs could get him for less, for two. I know about angelos and the asking price, but if it's really that high, let them keep him. If he's really disgruntled (which I quetsion) it'll show, and his value will be less at the deadline or next winter

"R. Sanders
M. Grudzielanek
D. Mientkiewicz"

That's really not a bad haul for the Royals. It's not going to put them in the top 3 in their division. It probably doesn't even get them out of last place. But it is an improvement over what they had before without spending big bucks on anyone.

It's really a shame that franchise can't be competitive. In the 70s and 80s, they had one of the best fan bases in baseball relative to population.

The economics of the game have made thriving in KC/Pittsburgh nearly impossible. It's things like that that make my back off of my republican economic beliefs and start to think the Communists or at least the socialists had a decent idea. KC and Pittsburgh are great small cities with great sports fans. They deserve better than the snot with bats that they are forced to root for. The Cubs bring most of thier problems on themselves, as they have the resources to do better. But the Royals and Pirates in particular are truly handicapped.

Frankly, I think the O's should be keeping Tejada. It would send a terrible message to their players and their fans if they do otherwise.

"Frankly, I think the O's should be keeping Tejada. It would send a terrible message to their players and their fans if they do otherwise."

X,

I think that is why this deal will not get done now, but once the season starts and there in last place and their fans see that they would be better off trading Tejada for prospects like Cedeno, Hill, Dopiriak, and Ryu or Marmol a trade would become more possible.

Any idea on how this trade talk may affect Prior if he stays (which I hope is the case)? Would he resent it?

"trading Tejada for prospects like Cedeno, Hill, Dopiriak, and Ryu or Marmol"

I don't think they'd want guys like that for Tejada. They'd want top tier, A level prospects. And they'd get them.

Brick-
I can't imagine it being a sign of goodwill towards Prior.
And all the talk of him being a So Cal kid will be pushed away with big wads a cash from the highest bidder.
Ask Mr. Texan Roger Clemens, who will be pitching in Boston or NY in 2006.

If the Royals didn't give those guys no-trade deals, then they're brilliant. Think about it from the player's perspective: make more money, have less stress for the first half of the year, and know that you're going to get traded to a contender in late July.

From Neyers chat:

"BT Chicago: Rob, What's your take on the Prior/Tejada rumors? Would you trade a starting pitcher of his potential whne he's only 24?

Rob Neyer: (11:11 AM ET ) Yes, I would. Prior's still got the potential, but he's not proved he can stay healthy. Meanwhile, Tejada's an outstanding player who's missed exactly zero games in the last five years."

I for one am happy to see some teams like the Royals and Pirates making some decent moves. While it may not get them to the top of their division, at least they are improving their teams. I also like that some good ballplayers (albeit older) are taking reasonable contracts from teams that can only offer reasonable contracts.

Under the heading of Don't Know What It Means, But It Looks Interesting:

Looking at the Cubs two recent pennant-contending years, '03 & '04, they succeeded in 2003 by being a better defensive team than the league, allowing 4.22 R/G against a league adjusted average ( by subtracting the Cubs numbers out) of 4.63. Offensively, they were sub-par, plating 4.47 R/G against an NL adjusted 4.62.

Yet, in 2004 they were better than the league-adjusted averages on both sides and finished worse. Offensively, they improved to plus-.15 over the league (4.87 vs. 4.62) and even improved their pitching numbers by posting a 4.10 RA/G against the NL adjusted 4.69. Yet, they improved their record by only one win and finished 16 games out of first.

Clearly part of this oddity is that the Cubs had a horrendous final two weeks along with St. Louis's phenomenal improvement from 2003. they dropped their RA/G by nearly a run, even though their offense slipped a little; they were still above par in 2004 but not nearly as much as they were in 2003.

As I said, I have no idea what this means, but it seems fascinating.

The rumors about the prior trade are interesting, now if we could only button down the teams & players...
1. Prior & C-pat to Red Sox, Manny to O's, Tejada to Cubs?
2. Prior & C-pat to O's for Tajada?
3. Prior to Yankees, Crosby +1 to O's, Tejada to Cubs?

My head is spinning...any way you slice it, If the deal goes, we've got to get Millwood. I'd be sad to see Mark go, but you've got to give to get. This move solidifies our offence despite our outfield challenges, firmly places Neifi on the bench, provides an all star caliber everyday player for a pitcher with significant potential. I like the Idea...Substitute Wood and I LOVE the idea, substitute Z and I'm not so sure...

The Baltimore Sun reported today that there were preliminary discussions involving a 3-way with the A's--but not like Az Phil was thinking. Registrations is required, so I'll save you all the pain:

Orioles still in Tejada trade talks
Sources: Cubs offering Prior, but O's wary of injury-prone starter
By Jeff Zrebiec
Sun Reporter
Originally published December 23, 2005

The Orioles remain in trade talks with several teams about Miguel Tejada, but as of now, no team has matched the club's asking price for the disgruntled All-Star shortstop.

According to team and industry sources, the most serious discussions the Orioles are having about Tejada appear to be with the Chicago Cubs, who are dangling a package that includes standout right-handed pitcher Mark Prior.

According to industry sources, however, the Cubs want Orioles left-hander Erik Bedard included in the deal and don't want to trade top outfield prospect Felix Pie, whom the Orioles covet. The Orioles also are slightly wary of Prior's recent history of elbow troubles and would prefer obtaining Carlos Zambrano, but the Cubs reportedly have no interest in trading him.

As of now, according to a source with knowledge of the trade talks, the two teams are not yet close to an agreement despite several proposals being sent back and forth. Cubs second baseman Todd Walker, center fielder Corey Patterson and 25-year-old left-handed pitching prospect Rich Hill have also been mentioned in a deal, but the Orioles aren't enthralled with Walker or Patterson.

Walker would essentially be a bench player with All-Star Brian Roberts entrenched at second base, and Patterson struggled mightily last season and would not seem to constitute that big of an upgrade over Luis Matos, whose status as the Orioles' everyday center fielder is in jeopardy.

The Orioles and Cubs have been in discussions for several weeks and have even gotten several teams involved in the trade talks. According to two industry sources, there was some preliminary discussion between the Orioles, Cubs and Oakland Athletics on a three-way deal that included Tejada, Bedard, Prior and Oakland ace Barry Zito among others heading to new homes. Prior and Zito were the centerpieces of the package coming to the Orioles in the early talks.

But at this point, the A's asking price for Zito appears to be sky-high, and the Orioles wouldn't be interested in obtaining the left-hander in a deal unless they can sign him - this is his contract year - to a long-term deal and that appears unlikely.

The Boston Red Sox, Houston Astros, New York Mets, Chicago White Sox and Los Angeles Angels also reportedly have interest in Tejada, though to this point, none has come close to matching the Orioles' asking price. The Orioles have no interest in trading Tejada within the division to the Red Sox, but it is not impossible, according to a team source, that the club could get Red Sox slugger Manny Ramirez in a three- or four-team deal without trading Tejada to Boston.

The Orioles are interested in White Sox right-hander Jon Garland, who is a free agent after this season, and had some talks with Chicago last week in a deal that didn't include Tejada, according to industry sources. However, the White Sox wanted Bedard, instead of pitching prospects in the deal, and the Orioles balked.

Despite telling several teammates, including Brian Roberts and Ramon Hernandez, that his public demand for a "change of scenery" earlier this month was said out of frustration and he didn't want to leave Baltimore, Tejada's representation has told the Orioles recently that the former MVP still wants a trade.

The Orioles clearly want to keep the shortstop but seem to be at least willing to deal him if the price is right. However as of now, it appears that Tejada will remain an Oriole at least through Christmas.

"3. Prior to Yankees, Crosby +1 to O's, Tejada to Cubs?"

Um...Who exactly is +1? Cuz in order for the Os to give up Tejada for Crosby +1, that +1 better be pretty damn good. I don't see this one happening.

Your scenarios also leave out any mention of Bedard, Hill, Pie, Cedeno, etc. all of whom are being mentioned. If I am baltimore, I insist on Cedeno as they need someone to play SS and they have nobody right now either on the MLB team, or near ready in the high minors.

Looking at it from the historical perspective, I'm on the fence concering Tejada. The Cubs getting rid of a talented pitcher, something they always have a shortage of, for still more power, something they've had my whole life and have yet to win with. Now i know with the outfield as currently constituted, power has to come from somewhere else, but moving your #2 when the distance from you #2 to #3 is a horrifying drop (not counting on Wood) I just don't know.

I'd be more excited if they added Millwood (I know, really expensive) or Zito (wouldn't include Prior) On those cold days in April, May and September, when 400 foot homers become 340 foot outs, a power hitting shortstop won't be so thrilling. Pitching always wins.

As this year's mantra goes: Just look at the White Sox.

Re #14,

I was just about to post that article myself, Brian.

The Orioles are smoking something if they think they can trade Tejada and get both Zito and Prior! I think that has to be a reporting mistake.

And obviously I didn't mention Bedard in my post which would take a bit of the sting out of losing Prior. But I remain in love with adding pitching, not subtracting pitching and adding power.

More Neyer:

"Kevin DC: Hi Rob, Is Jim Hendry an idiot? He seems to be making moves that will hamper the cubs....

Rob Neyer: (12:06 PM ET ) An idiot? No, I wouldn't say that. I'm sure Hendry could manage a meat market in Texas or a lemonade stand in the Sahara. A baseball team in a Chicago, though? I'm starting to have my doubts..."

X,

You probalby already are a communist. If you're like most Americans you're basing your retirmentent on a 401k scheme. If you work for a publicly traded corporation, your company's stock is proabably owned by millions of other Americans through thier 'shares' of mutual funds. Millions of other Americans are working for you by making thier company more successful, and thus increasing your 401k's value. Welcome to communism- it's not as bad as everyone thought.

As for trading Prior for Tejada- the truth is that Prior is more easily replaceable (Millwood or Weaveror for 2007 :Garland, Schmidt, Radke,Contreras, Petitte, Mulder, Zito + whoever becomes the next Garland).

I'm not keen on getting Millwood, though. It's posible the Cubs bullpen will be good enough to save his butt like Cleveland's did last year- he still had a lot of luck going by DIPS, as I recall.

Do you ever wonder if:
;Your call

Do you trade Mark Prior?

No -- you win with pitching
Yes -- you have to give up good players to get good players
Maybe -- it depends on what you get in return

On the Cubs website is used as a public sounding board by McPhail?

And of course, if it is, the next question is, should it be?

Yes, I do wonder, yes, i think it's very possible, I know they've got people scanning places like these (they've got to for fan reaction) yes, they probably think half or all of us are nuts, yet they inexplicably love a certain poster we'll call 'MT'

At the end of the day, trade prior or don't, I love the guy, i dig the fact that they drafted him, but if it'll make the team better, so be it. I just don't see how you top a healthy (presumably) prior at this point, and I don't think tejada's bat or his D are enough to outweigh the cost

Sign Roger Rocket....

Trade Rusch, Williams

Move Wood to bullpen

Trade Patterson, Williams and a minor prospect to Boston for Matt Clement

You'd have a rotation of Zambrano, Prior, Clemens, Clement and Maddux.....

An outfield of Murton, Pierre and Jones
an infield of Ramirez, Cedeno, Perez/Hairston/Walker and Lee
Catcher Barrett...

Should prove to be a pretty good team...a very formidable pitching staff...and a league average offense.

so you're trying to have the same conv on two threads too, huh?

I'm really starting to like the 'concentrate on Zito' idea. I'm not sure it'll work, but any combination of

Z
Prior
Zito
Wood
Maddux
Rusch
Williams

(preferably the top 5) sounds like a division winner waiting to happen to me, and that's with the lineup as it stands right now today

Zito would be a nice pickup for the Cubs. But with Zambrano already owning the "Z" nick, I propose we refer to Zito as Z2, which pretty much sounds the same as well.

So our rotation would be:
"Z"
"Z2"
"Z other 3"

very nice, I was thinking more along the lines of (you guessed it)...

The Killer Z's

Didn't the Cubs have the Killer Z's last season? Because it always seemed like the team was alseep during the games....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

"You probalby already are a communist"

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