Another Roster Move

- Roberto Novoa was optioned to AAA Iowa. The roster is down to 27, one of which is Wade Miller, so it's really 26. It appears the final spot on the team is down to John Koronka versus Michael Wuertz, with Wuertz most likely flying east with the team. Ryan Theriot will likely make the team as well unless the team picks up a late spring training casualty. Dusty's thoughts on the makeup of a 25-man roster:
"We're looking for the best 25 we can break with, the most options, the most variables, the most interchangeable parts, and the best ability so we don't have many holes. We want to try to cover as many parts as we can with the personnel."
Versatility over quality, let's hope the strategy pays off. Which of course it hasn't over the last 2 years. - Sean Marshall has been told (subscription required) he will be the fourth starter and likely pitch the Saturday game versus the Cardinals. Way to ease the kid in.... UPDATE: Daily Herald writer Bruce Miles tips us over at Northside Baseball that Marshall will pitch the Sunday night ESPN game versus the Cardinals instead. Feet meet fire!!! Thanks to Gaius Marius for the heads up... - Starting tomorrow, we'll begin postiing our season previews. First up are the TCR writers, Saturday will be other fine Cubs bloggers and then Sunday the readers get their voice heard. All in time for Monday's season opener against Cincy.
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Comments

Again, why is CZ not pitching on Saturday vs. the Cards? With all our pitching injuries, we need him to pitch every 5 days, period.

ARam and Jones both hit home runs off of Orlando Hernandez in the first. Williams appears to be pitching ok.

433

i disagree with you on one point. i believe that we should start marshall against the cards. if he is good enough to make the team, then he is good enough to start against the cards. it would also seem to me that he would have an adavantage because none of the cards would have faced him before. what i have seen of him in spring training makes me think that he is the real thing. his abilty to change speeds and throw his curve for strikes should make him a very tough pitcher. plus as AZPhil pointed out before the way the schedule works it would make it difficult on the rest of the staff after that start. lets see what we got.

Someguy -- OK, then Marshall should start on Sunday.

6th bench spot should be erubiel durazo, as long as he's healthy.

with pagan able to play all 3 OF spots, the cubs don't need to concern themselves with defense on this last spot. you have versatility on D at all positions, you have speed (pagan, hairston), you're missing POWER. durazo has this, when healthy.

i believe the rangers cut him yesterday. i assume there are question marks about the health. but what a great guy to have off the bench if he's anywhere near healthy. there is no one on this bench to go to for power (mabry?). even if durazo can only do that, get him. theriot provides nothing new to this team. stick him in iowa, use only if an infielder gets hurt.

433, knowing dusty, i bet he doesn't want to start marshall on Sunday Night bc it's on ESPN, national spotlight, etc. this may or may not be valid, certainly could be though.

i don't think the number of starts zambrano gets in april/may would change by moving him up one day. it matters for when Z would be able to make his 3rd start, which i don't think would change even if you moved him up to saturday....not a change at all in the grand scheme of things.

Any chance of a Nineteen-Ought-Six preview?

Green Lantern -- I'm not sure why the CZ/Marshall start issue bugs me so much, but it does. The issue is this -- if CZ starts on Sunday the 9th and not Saturday the 8th (on normal rest), he will miss the Cards series in late April.

Just not smart.

Erubiel Durazo > John Mabry. And I like Mabry as a bench player. By all means, I'll take Durazo over Theriot for my last guy on the bench. What a nice late inning PH bat that would be.

By the way, Phil or someone else: what does Iowa's team shape up like at this point? I see Bacon was dumped, and Restovich apparently has accepted a minor league assignment. Theriot will apparently get a cup of coffee in Chicago and then head down in mid-April. So I'm guessing:

Greenberg, Pie and Restovich in the OF. McGahee, Theriot, Fontenot, Sing and Soto the starting IF. Augie and Matt Craig as reserve IF-ers? Guzman, Hill, Ryu, Valdez and Pignatiello for the rotation. Koronka, Novoa, Aardsma, Bartosh and Brownlie in the bullpen. Is that getting close to the picture?

By the way, at some point during the year, Iowa fans should see Wood, Prior, Miller, Guzman, Hill, Ryu, Marshall and maybe even Carlos Marmol start some games. Wow.

"it would also seem to me that he would have an adavantage because none of the cards would have faced him"
The theory of the unseen pitcher seems only to work against the Cubs batters.

fwiw, bruce miles is on nsbb saying that marshall will indeed start on sunday night for a national television audience, keeping z on the five-day plan.

durazo's 1-dimentional, out of shape, and can only play 1st. he belongs in DH leagues, and he can't even find a job with them.

it took until just before spring camp for him to even get signed...to a minor league deal, non-guarenteed.

yeah, he's "only" 31/32, but he's not in playing shape.

According to the Trib... the Bleachers at Wrigley are now officially the "Bud Light Bleacher."

I don't really care about this deal either way, but it's interesting the terms of the deal were not disclosed. Along this, the bleacher expansion and all of the other changes, the additional cash flow this year should be very substantial. Would have been nice to see that reflected on the field...

Jacos, word...

So, what's the preference in beer? Bud Light (Bleachers) or Busch (Stadium)?

I'll take a Newcastle, thank you.

"The theory of the unseen pitcher seems only to work against the Cubs batters."

Based on my antecdotal memory - it is one hell of a theory. I was just talking about this very issue re: the CUbs earlier today with a friend.

The one thats even worse than the unseen pitcher is the relief pithcer making an emergency start. They might as well be facing Koufax circa 1965.

See- David Weathers-Marlins 9/05 game 1 of a double header.

Yikes.

Check that 9/2004

Two words:

Jeff Pico

According to the Trib... the Bleachers at Wrigley are now officially the "Bud Light Bleacher."

As long as I can still buy an Old Style...

And while they're at it bring back Special EX.

How did JWill pitch today? It would be nice to see him step up to the challenge with a good performance today.

Jeff Pico = the exception that proves the rule.

j.williams had 3Ks.

that's a huge step for him...unfortunately he also walked 4 and gave up 3 hits (1hr for the only run given up) in 5ip.

culled from the boxscore...

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/boxscore.j...

#23 Please enlighten me about how the exception proves the rule.

Just to clarify that the unknown pitcher has worked for the Cubs as well as against the Cubs.

Someguy said:
"i believe that we should start marshall against the cards. if he is good enough to make the team, then he is good enough to start against the cards"

I came to post pretty much the same thought. The guy is in the starting rotation of a majo league ball team...I don't think there is any possible way to "ease him in". He's the choice that was made for the 4th starter, so we have to ride him as a horse. If he isn't up to snuff..then we are in trouble whether he pitches against the Reds or the Cards.

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere...but are we still actively trying to move Walker? It just seems very odd to me that Baker wouldn't have announced who is going to be the 2nd baseman yet?

pure speculation, but it seems as if, while walker is still out there...his reception is as warm now as it was for most of the winter. the way the cubs have been dealing with the press lately it seems the cubs are prepared to go into the year with some kinda screwed up bench/platoon situation that's stuck in some top-secret dusty plan.

the mets put matsui on the DL...florida has a AA kid playing 2nd...still walker remains a cub.

"It just seems very odd to me that Baker wouldn't have announced who is going to be the 2nd baseman yet?"

C'mon, how can this be a surprise? If Dusty were to announce a "2B winner" that would mean a player might get upset with him and that's would violate Dusty's primary managing objective. Plus, that might reveal his super secret 2,7,8 hole lineup sorcery crafted over a bottle of Scotch split with Sarge.

#22 of 28: By BlueDog (March 30, 2006 05:05 PM)
How did JWill pitch today? It would be nice to see him step up to the challenge with a good performance today.

--

Jerome Williams today vs. D'backs at HoHoKam...

1st INNING:
1. Counsell grounded out weakly to Lee at 1B
2. Hudson walked on four pitches
3. Luis Gonzalez smoked a liner to D. Lee, Hudson doubled-off 1B

2nd INNING:
1. Tony Clark walked
2. Shawn Green walked
3. Johnny Estrada lined one-hop single to LF, base-runners each moved up one base
4. Eric Byrnes popped up to Ronny Cedeno behind 2nd base (INFIELD FLY RULE)
5. Damian Easley grounded ball sharply over pitcher's mound, touched by Williams, fielded by Cedeno one foot off the bag, Cedeno stepped on 2B, threw to 1st, easy DP, three outs, no runs.

3rd INNING:
1. Orlando Hernandez grounded out to SS
2. Craig Counsell struck out - called
3. Orlando Hudson singled
4. Luis Gonzalez walked
5. Tony Clark pop up

4th INNING:
1. Shawn Green fly out
2. Johnny Estrada homered over RF fence
3. Eric Byrnes pop up
4. Damian Easley ground out to SS

5th INNING:
1. Milons PH for Hernandez flied out to RF
2. Counsell struck out swinging
3. Hudson struck out swinging

Williams was behind on every hitter the first two inings, then he started to throw strikes more consistently. I thought he pitched very well against an all-major leaguer D'back lineup (and Easley was the only non-regular in the starting lineup), and made big pitches when he had to make them. A good outing for J-Will, in my opinion.

Rich Hill had terrible command, and walked four in just two innings. He also had three Ks, though. As is typical for Hill, he looks terrible/great/terrible/great like maybe every-other hitter. Some pitchers are inconsistent outing-to-outing, and some may be inconsistent inning-to-inning, but Hill is actually inconsistent BATTER-TO-BATTER. A very weird pitcher is Rich Hill.

Bob Howry had a shaky 9th (HBP, BB, and a double), but gave up only one run.

The Cub pitcher who REALLY looked good (although he onlt faced two batters) was Roberto "Valley Fever" Novoa. (That's his new nickname). He struck out Eric Byrnes on three pitches (strike three being a nasty slider), and then got a weak ground out to end the inning. I know he was optioned to Iowa today, but I suspect Novoa might be recalled fom Iowa sooner rather than later if Michael Wuertz's struggles continue into April.

Offensively, just like yesterday in Tempe, the Cubs had another first inning where they came out smokin'. Facing Orlando Hernandez (El Duque), Juan Pierre grounded out leading off the 1st, but then Walker worked a walked, Derrek Lee looped a single over shortstop, and Aramis Ramirez smashed a home run over the left field fence. Ater Barrett grounded out weakly to 2B, Jacque Jones homered over the RF fence. Four quick runs, Cubs up 4-0.

Derrek Lee had three singles (the looping liner over SS, a grounder past a diving Orlando Hudson between 1st & 2nd, and a grounder up through the box into CF).

Matt Murton had two line singles, one to right, one to left, plus a walk and a stolen base. He also was thrown out trying to score from 2nd on a base hit to RF (VERY nice throw by Shawn Green to nail Murt).

In addition to his HR, Jacque Jones also lined a single hard into right-center. He just CRUSHED El Duque each time he saw him.

Jerry Hairston, Jr and John Mabry were 2-for-2, both players coming into the game in the 6th inning off the bench. Mabry continues to hit the ball real hard when he gets a chance to bat. Pow!

Angel Pagan hit the ball hard twice, one turning into an inning-ending DP, the other a line shot single to left-center.

On the negative side, Ronny Cedeno continues to swing at everything, and struck out twice. He is really pressing, although he made several good solid throws in the field (which he has not been doing often enough this Spring).

I think this may be a great time for the Cubs to make a trade. You have several young prospects who had an exceptional spring and who are likely at their all time peak value to the Cubs. Instead of trading when a player's value is at it lowest, maybe Hendry can get back to making trades like Choi for D Lee or Bobby Hill and I don't remember who else for A-Ram & Lofton. If we have to trade Walker, let's package him with some hot but unproven talent and bring in some major league talent.

Green lantern:
"knowing dusty, i bet he doesn't want to start marshall on Sunday Night"

Well, I guess you don't know Dusty too well. It now has been reported that Marshall will be starting the Sunday night game, with Z going on Saturday.

433:
"OK, then Marshall should start on Sunday....(if not it is) just not smart."

Well I guess Dusty is smart (kidding) then becuase he is having him start on Sunday with Z on Saturday. :)

Ex-Cub RHP Jon Leicester (traded to the Texas Rangers last November) has cleared waivers, and the Rangers have assigned him outright to AAA.

Michael Wuertz claims in an article written by Carrie Muskrat at cubs.com that he had a mechanical issue this Spring that was corrected prior to his last appearance (three up, three down, with one K):

"When you're struggling, like I was at the beginning of camp, it's tough to make the adjustment," Wuertz said. "You're going out there and you're trying to battle so hard and you want everything to be perfect. You sometimes get out of your realm of things. When I tweaked my back a little, I realized I better make an adjustment.

"Larry [Rothschild, pitching coach] and Dusty both talked to me about making that adjustment and the last game I threw, it really carried over," he said. "I'm using my legs a little more and keeping my front shoulder in longer. It's just a little bit and it really seems to help. Everything just feels in sync now."

its all lies and more cubs conspiracy to sell mike wuertz tshirts they just got from the communist chinese govt.

the tarif was so high on the textiles that if they got stuck with it tribune shares would plunge 10-15 points and 10,000 worker's pensions would be cut

...wuertz will go to the DL 38 minutes from now while they scramble to sell enough cases of the shirts to break even.

what a bunch of commie supporting, pension stealing, and corporate interest running the team jerks.

Man, I wish Dusty would of stuck with that youngster Leicester. :)

Yeah Crunch...

TCR tells us that Baker and Rothschild can't coach, so Wuertz must not be telling the truth about them telling him to try the adjustment.

Bud Selig MUST GO!!!

Today is the last straw for me with this baffoon. This "investigation" (or what should be known as "the Barry Bonds witch hunt" or "tring to save my shitty laegacy as commish") is a JOKE. How is it going to help baseball?? Even if they "prove" these guys did steroids, what then. First of all, almost everyone knows they did roids. And what can they do? IT was not illegal to do roids then in baseball. If the federal governement is not looking into this, how can baseball when the players did not break baseball's rules but did the governments. I hope they do justice in this "investigation" and look into who leaked that Grand Jury testimony from California, which is against the law.

The ONLY things Selig has done good for baseball in his tenure is adding the Wild Card, finally getting revenue sharing and finally getting steroid testing (the last two were way past due).

Here is the list of the bad:
- whole Pete Rose disaster
- tie in All Star Game
- steroid era
- not eliminating DH
- over expansion
- No World Series in 1994

And I can go on.

I really hope that even the Bonds haters realize how bad this is for baseball and how there is nothing that can be done anyways. Why would he not just admit there was the Steroid Era and we in baseball didn't act quick enough, but with teh new stricter testing we can all put that era behind us and the game is cleaned up now. Instead he is rehashing all this same crap 3 days before Opening Day. This guy is a weasel!!! Costas for Commish!!!

cleveland has put brandon phillips on the trade block.

the cubs/angels have been talking about swaping excess OF minor league tallent for excess IF minor league tallent...the phillips issue could change things if hendry already has discounted the idea of taking him on.

Here is what the Cubs SHOULD have done with their roster heading into the regular season, making better use of roster spots in a way that could give them an edge in any close game that might be played during the first week or two of the season.

Instead of keeping Sean Marshall and Jerome Williams on the Opening Day 25-man roster, the Cubs should have designated Marshall and Williams as the #4 & #5 starters today (which one is which, TBD), and then immediately option both of them to Iowa to get regular work (one start for whoever ends up as the #4 guy, and two starts for whoever ends up as the #5) and stay "stretched-out" as starting pitchers until they are actually needed. (They both would have had to have been optioned to the minors no later than today, so that whichever one of the two is the #4 starter could spend the required ten days in the minors before being recalled for the April 9th game against the Cardinals).

With both optioned to Iowa for ten days, one of the two (TBD, doesn't matter which one) would be recalled and would start (as the #4 starter) the game of Sunday night April 9th vs STL (and also Friday night April 14th at PIT), and the other would be recalled and would start (as the #5 starter) the game of Saturday April 15th at PIT.

Since neither of the two would be optioned-out for more than 20 days, neither would lose any MLB service time during their stay at AAA, and neither would be charged a minor league option.

If the Cubs had done that, they could start the regular season with three starting pitchers (Zambrano, Rusch, and Maddux), seven relievers (Dempster, Eyre, Howry, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, and Novoa or Koronka), and 15 position players.

You never know when having an extra position player or two on the bench during the first week or two of the season could win a close game with a pinch-run SB or a PH. It also would get the #4 and #5 starters "regular work" and keep them "stretched-out" as starters, instead of having them sit around for days waiting for a "long relief" job that might not even happen.

Then as the #4 and #5 starters (Marshall and Williams) are recalled, the two extra position players would be dropped (or one position player and one relief pitcher, if Dusty feels comfortable going with a six-man bullpen), with their roster spots filled by the #4 and #5 starters as the roster spots are actually needed.

the cubs/angels have been talking about swaping excess OF minor league

I believe Dwaine Bacon was traded to the Angels, I don't know for who though, I think it was a PTBNL

- whole Pete Rose disaster
- tie in All Star Game
- steroid era
- not eliminating DH
- over expansion
- No World Series in 1994

Wasn't Rose under Fay Vincent? Selig just hasn't done anything new.

ASG, whatever, just as arbitrary as rotating years. It should be based on record.

he can't really dissolve the DH without adding roster spots (players union and all) to teams which I think is just as bad. Letting a team keep some burner for a late stolen base on their roster seems just as bad as keeping some guy who can only hit but can't field on the team. Beyond the tradition of letting the pitcher hit, MANY fans believe that watching some pitcher flail away like a lost puppy is just as bad as having the DH. Personally, I'm in the middle.

I'm with you on the overexpansion and no World Series...

AZ Phil:

what can you imagine would be managements reasons for NOT going with the above mentioned scenario? simple disagreement? lack of insight preventing them from even seeing it that way? stubborness?

Manny I hate to type this, but I agree. Unless he and the head of the Union players association is a target of this inquest, it is a farce. Selig was so happpy to see the fans he did not care what was actually happening. And the Baseball union? What a joke. They should have been looking out for their "paychecks" they were looking out for.

scooter

El Toro:
"I don't think you can necessarily put all the blame on Selig for all of that."

Selig is the commisioner of baseball, the buck stops with him. He HAS to take the blame. Others may also be at fault (player, maangement, players union), but he is suppose to be the man, but he has the backbone of a boy. He has to be blamed.

The Pete Rose disaster was not reinstating him for the HOF only. I have no problem not allowing him back into baseball, but there is no reason he should not be allowed to be in the HOF as one of the greatest players EVER.

I agree he has done a couple good things, but the bad way outweighs the good.

AZ Phil:

Have you considered leaving your day job to consult full-time as a baseball advisor???

Have you ever sent over a resume to Clark and Addison for possible opportunities under Jim Hendry?

I just don't know why the Cubs don't offer you some work! Considering Ned Coletti is now a GM of a major market team having started in PR, it just makes the same sense to me to offer someone with your insights some employment there coming from your blogging and observational experience.

I have really enjoyed your reports from ST, as well. its great to get that local angle. Of course Spring Training is too long and rather meaningless. But it does whet the appetite a bit.

We will all see soon enough if this team can tread water for a month waiting out for one of the rag-armed starters to reappear and see if it is enough to help this team to a THIRD PLACE finish. That's about all we're going to see in my opinion. Just too many holes, and not enough bondo to go around.

Anybody know where JOhn Hill has been?

You need to actually know baseball to be an advisor.

Was there ever an announced result of the Cub Reporter Free Agent Frenzy contest? If there was, I missed it.

uh, yeah, little behind on that one. The winner was Pops, but it was a pathetic showing overall.

I'll make a formal annoucement sometime soon, there's a prize involved too.

Can't see how not letting Rose be eligible for the HOF can be considered a "disaster". Flooding in New Orleans is a disaster, I don't think that many people are losing sleep over Rose not being in the Hall. He broke the cardinal rule of baseball that's posted in every clubhouse in baseball. Hardly the end of the world....

John Hill should be making an appearance tomorrow...

opening for john hill: RATT and Whitesnake

no flash photography, no glass containers, no knives, markers, or illegal substances.

ticket non-refundable in event of bad weather.

OT but OMG this is great:

Cedeno no sure thing

'Everything man' Perez ready to go if shortstop stumbles

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

Another 500 AB season for Neifi?

LMAO

Arizona Phil:

If the Cubs would have sent Marshall and Williams down to keep pitching regularly, what do you do if something happens to a starter while he's warming up or in the first inning of a game?
Also, what extra position players would you have kept?

from ye olde trib:

"Cedeno is going to get the first nod, but it's up to him to keep the job without us putting pressure on him," Baker said. "We're not in the giveaway business. We think he earned the situation that he's in, but...With that in mind, you have to play," Baker said. "That's how it is."

fair enough...

"With that in mind, you have to play," Baker said.

He can't play if you don't play him Dusty. Here we are ending the last week of spring training and the guy getting most of the playing time is Neifi Perez.

Monday- Perez starts at short. Plays entire game. Cedeno pinch runs for Grissom in the ninth.

Tuesday- Cedeno starts at short. Plays entire game. Neifi sits.

Wednesday- Perez starts at short. Plays entire game. Cedeno sits.

Thursday- Cedeno starts at short. Plays four innings. Replaced in fifth by Perez.

Perez...23 innings
Cedeno...13 innings

The season has not yet begun and already Baker is pulling the rug out from under Cedeno. Why go through this charade? Every year it's the same thing. Just give the job to Neifi and be done with it.

Or better yet, fire McFail, Baker and Hendry and hire Bill Stoneman away from the Angels.

Cubs.com: The Cardinals won 100 games last year and the National League Central Division.

"It's just a team," Marshall said. "It's a Double-A game to me. I'm not going to pitch any differently."
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.js...

Kid, Rolen will light you up if you throw him a double-A fastball.

Saidly Cedendo seems to not be making the best of his oppurtunity. Unless he can solve his throwing problems and stop swinging at everything I expect he will get limited playing time.

BTW, for those who are interested the CSN: Cubscast - Chicago Cubs Podcast is worth the download.

Have you ever sent over a resume to Clark and Addison for possible opportunities under Jim Hendry?

My advise would be to just let the train wreck happen.....why get in the way of, or be part of, the train wreck that is JIM HENDRY?

In today's Kiley column re the Marshall start. "Hey, you can't pick where you put them,'' Baker said. See, and I thought that was part of what a manager does. Thanks for the tip, Dusty.

career: .270/.301/.380/.681

"Dude, how can i productivity like that on my bench?"

So we basically have our starting-day roster now. Miller gets sent to DL, that leaves 26, then between Koronka or Wuertz, one will get sent to AA/AAA and the other will be the 25th.

I'm suprised Theriot is still around. He's not extactly a wiz with the bat. I'd rather see Augie.

AND THE WIENER (in the former Cub left field platoon sweepstakes) IS:

todd hollandsworth (.196 .245 .261) -- makes the Cleveland Indians varsity as the bench outfielder after a miserable spring in which he showed absolutely zero ability to do anything except kill rallies

defeating

JASON DUBOIS (.417 .525 .646) -- who came to camp two weeks early, prepared meticulously by all accounts and pounded the ball into submission all spring. "He's strong as an ox. This is the Jason Dubois we traded for. He has a great swing," said the Indians brass as they announced he was being cut.

Dubois handled 23 chances in the outfield without an error by the way. And did not lead the Indians in strikeouts batting -- an amazing accomplishment for him in and of itself.

I just bought the cubs from the trib. My plan is to walk into the club house and fire Dusty and take his place.

My adress to the team, "I understand everyone here has expectations. However, playing time goes to the players on MY TEAM based upon results" PAUSE...wait for it...."The line-up is posted, if you don't like it, play better. If you are on it keep it up. Lastly, if you want to comment about the Line-up...DON'T".

Line-up
CF Pagan
RF Jones
1st Lee
3rd Ramirez
LF Murton
C Barrett
2nd Hairston
SS Nefi

Your turn...

crafted over a bottle of Scotch split with Sarge.

Dusty and sarge dont drink scotch. They drink cognac and thunderbird.

How is it going to help baseball?? Even if they "prove" these guys did steroids, what then. First of all, almost everyone knows they did roids.

Knowledge is always good.

And what can they do? IT was not illegal to do roids then in baseball.

Steroids were banned in the early 90s. However there was no testing.

IT was not illegal to do roids then in baseball.

as far as I know there are no statutes (laws of the state) that specifically target the players of the game of baseball.

I believe you meant it wasn't against the rules of the bargaining contract. I don't know of any law that says "steroid use is illegal in baseball."

Basically a law that targets the private behavior of individuals is protected by the equal protection clause of the constitution.

Congress can investigate the players and baseball all they want. IF steroid use is "legal"..albeit frowned upon, by the general public then there's nothing they can do about it.

My question--is steroid use, obtained by a physicians prescription...legal? If it is...then there is nothing Congress can do about it...if it isn't then being a baseball player has nothing to do with it...simply private men breaking the law.

Is steroid use illegal?

Steroid use became illegal in 1989. You can't get Performance Enhancing Steroids from a physician unless you have extreme muscle atrophy due to a Coma etc.

"[I]t is illegal to use steroids without a valid prescription or to distribute them. Steroids are Schedule III substances under the Controlled Substances Act."

http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs5/5448/#illegal

thanks badguy,

I would imagine that any minor little chemical change to any certain steroid that changes it's chemistry would be the means people (athletes) go to ..to corrupt the system even more. The illegal list is certainly constantly growing I would imagine....and some of them were (until recently if that) not detectable by blood/urine tests (HGH)...so it would be hard to prove whether the players used or not.

"[I]t is illegal to use steroids without a valid prescription or to distribute them. Steroids are Schedule III substances under the Controlled Substances Act."

Seems to me the bold words are the loophole used by most.

#54 of 60: By ALLEN (March 31, 2006 04:40 AM)
Arizona Phil:

If the Cubs would have sent Marshall and Williams down to keep pitching regularly, what do you do if something happens to a starter while he's warming up or in the first inning of a game?
Also, what extra position players would you have kept?

----

ALLEN: As far as a starting pitcher being unable to pitch due to a last-minute injury, the same thing could happen if Marshall and Wiliams are on the Opening Day 25-man roster from the git-go. Marshall could be used out of the bullpen on Opening Day, and Jeroime Wiliams can pitch out of the bullpen the first five games (through Sunfay April 9th), but once the first week of the season is over, Williams can't be used out of the bullpen because he has to prepare for his start on April 15th in Pittsburgh. So once that happens, then who would be the "long reliever"?

If the Cubs feel they need a "long man" for just the first week of the season and ONLY the first week of the season, they could have identified and designated Marshall and Williams as the #4 and #5 starters, sent them to AAA to get work as starters the first week of the regular season (one start in AAA for the #4 start, and two starts in AAA for the #5 starter), and then kept another different pitcher who is also "stretched-out" coming out of Spring Training (like Jae-Kuk Ryu or Rich Hill) as the 7th man (long-reliever) in the bullpen instead.

The problem is, Dusty and other MLB managers do not keep any of their relievers "stretched-out" for long-relief or spot starts for very long past the end of Spring Training. The day of a relief pitcher coming into a game and pitching five or six innings has long past. What usually will happen if a starter comes up lame warming in the bullpen or in the 1st or 2nd inning during the heart of the season, is that the manager will select a middle-reliever who is used to pitching two innings, and try and extend him to three or four innings.

You may remember last year, when Dusty moved Glendon Rusch to the bullpen, it didn't take too long before Rusch was unable to be moved back into the starting rotation because he was no longer "stretched-out" enough to pitch five or six innings, because Dusty would never use him for more than an inning or two per appearance out of the bullpen.

The way managers would do it in old days (pre-1980's) was they would have a core four-man starting rotation mostly pitching on three-days rest, with two pitchers (not just one) capable of working as a "5th starter" and staying "stetched-out" by starting games occasionally in double-headers or in a "spot start," and also being used for as many as four or five innings in "long relief" situations or in extra inning games.

But managers just don't work their pitching staffs like that anymore, because they feel they need more "short relievers" (a closer who usually only pitches one inning, a couple of set-up guys who also usually pitch only one inning, a LOOGY or two who often pitch to just one or two batters, and then a couple of middle-relievers who don't pitch more than two innings per appearance). So usually nobody in the bullpen remains sufficiently "stretched-out" to be able pitch "long relief" (four or five innings or more) at the drop of a hat.

As far as who I would have kept as the temporary 14th and 15th position players (#15 until the #4 starter is needed on April 9th, and #14 until the #5 starter is needed on April 15th), I would be looking for players who can PH or PR. Since they are strictly "temporary" guys, I would want them to remain on the 40-man roster after they are replaced by the #4 and #5 srarters. So my choices would be Ryan Theriot and Brandon Sing (with Jose Reyes dropped from the 40-man roster to make room for Sing). And then Theriot and Sing would be optioned to AAA as the #4 and #5 starters return, but both Theriot and Sing would still be available to be recalled at any time during the season if they are needed.

Michael Restovich would be another possibility (instead of Sing), but once Restovich is no longer needed as the 14th or 15th player, he would have to be placed on waivers in order to be returned to the minors, and although it is probably unlikely that he would be claimed by another MLB club, because he has been outrighted before he can be an immediate free-agent once he clears waivers (player option).

Actually, steroids WERE illegal in baseball contrary to popular opinion. Here is a link to a memo sent out from the commissioners office to all clubs on June 7, 1991.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/format...

#62 of 72: By Ryno (March 31, 2006 10:10 AM)
I'm suprised Theriot is still around. He's not extactly a wiz with the bat. I'd rather see Augie.

---

RYNO: Theriot only hit .200 in ST, but he had a .400 OBP because he had NINE walks (with only three Ks) in 35 PA.

Theriot isn't much of a hitter, but he is a good batter because he will take a walk, and with his short-stroke, he (like David Eckstein) has a knack for fouling-off pitches and he doesn't strike out much.

Theriot is also faster than Augie Ojeda (who has just average speed at best), and Theriot can play more positions (2B-SS-3B and the OF).

However, Augie Ojeda IS one of the best defensive shortstops I have ever seen. If he could only hit!

If they go after the steroid guys(Bonds, McGuire, Sosa) then they should also go after the coke heads (Steve Howe, Gooden-already nabbed, Strawberry). Just playing devil's advocate.

AZ Phil: RYNO: Theriot only hit .200 in ST, but he had a .400 OBP because he had NINE walks (with only three Ks) in 35 PA.

Theriot isn't much of a hitter, but he is a good batter because he will take a walk, and with his short-stroke, he (like David Eckstein) has a knack for fouling-off pitches and he doesn't strike out much.

That makes much more sense. Thanks, Phil.

Actually, steroids WERE illegal in baseball contrary to popular opinion

They weren't "illegal" in baseball...they were illegal EVERYWHERE....

To make a anti-steroid policy in baseball for something that is already illegal in society is really absurd. That's like making an "Anti-murder" policy...

Baseball specifically forbids murder by any of the players, owners, umpires etc.....a joke.

Now something that would have "teeth" would be for those who test players to be required to turn the postive test results over to federal grand jurys to allow prosecution of the players...in addition to their 50 day suspension....now that would be a policy with teeth.

#25 Jason - I did a little research, since this was a phrase(The exception that proves the rule) I remembered from school. But apparently it's a pretty stupid phrase, at least according to this link.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_201.html

So I'm sorry I posted it, and I won't be using that phrase again.

As for Pico himself, it just seems that the Cubs get flummoxed by pitchers they haven't seen more often than they flummox the other guys. But I have done no research in that area, just a subjective memory. But I still agree with Jacos.

I doubt steriods are illegal to consume. they are illegal to possess and distribute. They would have no legal grounds to prosecute players who failed a test.

If you consume...you possess??

It is impossible to consume without possesion.

When you talk about steroids you have to understand that corticosteroid steroids aren't the same as anabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids are the ones being abused. They are a controlled substance and it is illegal to have them in your possession or in your body without a prescription.

There is also a lot of confusion about the VERY weak drug testing program in effect in MLB. HGH is not tested for because it is detectable in the blood not the urine and baseball only uses urine tests. Unless there's been some recent change, not everyone gets tested either. The test are random.

There are two HGH tests that have been recently developed. One can detect HGH administered within 36 hours, which means it probably wouldn't be useful to MLB because players often find out ahead of time that they are going to be tested. There is another that is said to detect HGH administered as long as 84 days before. However both these tests require that blood be drawn.

But you don't even need to go to cocaine or anything like that to analogize to the steriods investigation. Amphetamines have been similarly illegal for a long time. ANd by most accounts they were much more frequently used (and for a far longer time) than steroids. Why would this not be more deserving of an independent investigation?

Cuz you're not going to break the most sacred record in all of sports on Amphetamines ;)

Arizona Phil:
You are right about Williams. If he's going to start April 15, he won't pitch after April 10 (barring some kind of emergency situation). That's why I see them, once again, carrying 12 pitchers.

ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT:
I keep reading and hearing how the Cubs are a better defensive team this year, and I just don't see that.
Hairston is better than Walker at 2B. But C, 1B, 3B are the same players and so is basically SS because Perez will get ample playing time. That leaves the outfield.
While Pierre is fast, he's not very good defensively and his arm is below Patterson.
Jones has more speed than Burnitz, but I thought Burnitz had a pretty solid defensive year last year and has a better arm. In fact, this may be the worst throwing outfield in the NL.

I only see one plus defensive position (1B). If the Cubs' starting rotation was healthy (qualifier), I think the only significant difference between the Cubs and St. Louis is the Cardinals are a much better defensive team.

To clarify, it is technically not illegal to take drugs. It is only illegal to buy, sell or possess non-consumed drugs. SO, cocaine in you pocket = crime, cocaine in you bloodstream not illegal.

#86 of 87: By ALLEN (March 31, 2006 01:28 PM)
Arizona Phil:
You are right about Williams. If he's going to start April 15, he won't pitch after April 10 (barring some kind of emergency situation). That's why I see them, once again, carrying 12 pitchers.

ALLEN: Dusty WILL want a seven-man bullpen, but I think it's more likely that Theriot will be on the Opening Day 25-man roster, and then will be replaced by a 12th pitcher on April 11th, the first game where Williams won't be available to pitch out of the bullpen.

At this point, I would say the most likely reliever candidate to get recalled on April 11th is Roberto Novoa, or possibly Jae-Kuk Ryu.

Arizona Phil:
You're right, April 11 for a 12th pitcher. You're two possibles, slight chance of John Koronka. If it's Novoa, then they will have seven relief pitchers, and none of them can pitch beyond two innings.

This is also the reason the Cubs won't pick up their 25th man this weekend from somebody's castoffs; he'd only be with the team a few games.

I'd sure like to see them try an 11-man staff for the long run and have an extra bench player. But most teams go with 12 these days.

[I]shit[/I]

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