Game Seven Thread

GAME SEVEN IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CINCINNATI REDS (5-2) AT CHICAGO CUBS (4-2) WRIGLEY FIELD, 1:20 CDT Weather: Partly cloudy, 69 degrees, wind out to right @ 18mph TV: WGN, DIRECTV 734 Radio: WGN, XM 186
Greg Maddux, RHP 1-0, 1.42 ERA, 6 1/3 IP 1 K, 2 BB, 1 HRBrandon Claussen, LHP 0-0, 5.40 ERA, 5 IP 5 K, 0 BB, 1 HR
*Tony Womack, 2B #Felipe Lopez, SS *Ken Griffey Jr., CF *Adam Dunn, LF Edwin Encarnacion, 3B *Scott Hatteberg, 1B Austin Kearns, RF #Javier Valentin, C Brandon Claussen, P*Juan Pierre, CF Jerry Hairston Jr., 2B Derrek Lee, 1B Michael Barrett, C #Angel Pagan, RF Matt Murton, LF #Neifi Perez, 3B Ronny Cedeno, SS Greg Maddux, P
Reds vs. Maddux Tony Womack: 11-39, 282/293/308, 1 BB, 4 K Rich Aurilia: 8-39, 205/205/410, 2 HR, 5 K Adam Dunn: 4-26, 154/214/500, 3 HR, 2 BB, 6 K Austin Kearns: 7-22, 318/318/500, 1 HR, 6 K Ken Griffey Jr.: 9-20, 450/542/800, 2 HR, 3 BB, 6 K Ryan Freel: 5-18, 278/278/556, 1 HR, 2 K Javier Valentin: 6-10, 600/636/1800, 4 HR, 1 BB, 1 KCubs vs. Claussen Derrek Lee: 3-9, 333/455/1333, 3 HR, 2 BB, 2 K Aramis Ramirez: 4-9, 444/583/889, 1 HR, 3 BB, 1 K Todd Walker: 4-8, 500/500/1375, 2 HR
Let's hope the Cubs can put yesterday's shellacing behind them and paste a few against Claussen. This looks a little too much like a getaway day lineup to me, but with Ramirez and Jones both dinged up it's probably the best the Cubs could do.


Come on. There is no way Neifi should be ahead of Cedeno. There is no way Pagan should be ahead of Murton.

Ya, that lineup sucks.


That would be my lineup today.

The lineup isn't ideal, I too would flop Murton and Pagon and Neifi with Cedeno.

I'd really like to see Walker today, regardless of who is pitching for the Cubs. With ARam out, the wind blowing out hard to right, and Walker's splits against the Reds thrower, this should be a no brainer.

But at least Neifi is not batting 2nd.

Yeah, this lineup could use some improvement. I'd throw Cedeno some love and put the kid ahead of Neifi to keep his confidence flowing.

Knowing Dusty and his goofy luck, we will probably score 8 or 9 runs with this lineup and he will conclude that this validates his lineup.

Trib article says Jerome Williams will start Friday now...

Rob G-

I guess Dusty is going to tell Maddux and Z what Billy Martin use to tell Mike Norris when he was warming up-
"Don't even look at the bullpen, no one is going to be there."

Sup peeps... man I hate these announcers

If Jerome is starting friday, who's on tap for Sat?

did they use eyre or howry yesterday??

did they use eyre or howry yesterday??

No, they should be available today.

wow, a walk... I thought they forgot about the 4 ball rule after yesterdays peformance


Should have known pierre would catch fire today, i just dropped him from my fantasy team

I really like this Pagan kid. never seen someone slide after the bag, so that was kinda cool

I'm just happy the Ruby is batting 2nd today!

GameDay sucks...

Ruby or Rubby....oh wait he's batting 8th

the Ruby? that's anew one to me
and yes, BadGuy, i sympathise. I'm glad this game is on WGN and that for some reason, we get WGN in miami

yeah yahoo has barrett batting with a 1-0 count for the last few minutes now...

I think your typing fingers are confused

Yeah so does ESPN GameDay. Luckily I have a radio the lag is there but not this bad usually.

oooo, len and bob's podcast!!! Sign me up for that!
wait, that would probably have to kick Enya out of my MP3 player, and I can't have that

men on first and second 1 out

Old way: Barrett flies to right, runner on second takes third. Result- two out, men on first and third. 0 Runs

New way: Runner on second steals third. Throw goes into left field. Runner scores, runner on first takes third base. Barrett flies to right. Run scores. 2 Runs

This isn't to discount Angel Pagan's double later which would have driven in at least one run.

>that would probably have to kick Enya out of my MP3 player, and I can't have that

julian tavarez, everybody!

have you tried MLB's gameday... it too can be frustrating but its my favorite of those three

I agree, unfortunately, ESPN GameDay is the only "realtime" utility that isn't blocked here at work.....bastards.

anyone remember back in the day when paying for MLB.TV also got you the radio too.
what a f**ing racket its turned into

Cublogger, the sad part is that was only like 3 years ago.

ouch.. that does suck

it hurts when ARAM swings, its not like that's a problem. Now, if it starts hurting when Prior pitches.... oh wait

The Reds are playing the sharp defense they are known for once again.

next month, i'm just paying for the radio cause I'd rather listen to Ronny than these two jokers.

Maybe I've been under a rock, but what happened to Aramis?

he hurt his butt muscle

Maddux just popped up a bunt and Neifi gets doubled off of 1st. I have never seen that happen

okay, i've seen it happen, just not with Maddux

"Old way: Barrett flies to right, runner on second takes third. Result- two out, men on first and third. 0 Runs
New way: Runner on second steals third. Throw goes into left field. Runner scores, runner on first takes third base. Barrett flies to right. Run scores. 2 Runs"

Nice to have some speed finally on this team, huh?

If Jerome is starting friday, who's on tap for Sat?

I assume Marshall is getting pushed back a day for whatever reason...

ever think Maddux lays awake at night wondering how he can be in the same rotation as Rusch and Williams.

maybe Pierre's head looks small because he likes to wear a big helmet

Yeah Gameday always slows down when something goofy happens (like a double steal with a throwing error leading to a run scoring). I picture a frazzled intern frantically typing the description for 5 minutes.

Nice!! a 3rd error, and JP is back on 1st!!! sweet

who's faster, hairston or cedeno?

I read somewhere that Pierre's hat size is smallest in the majors - 6 1/2 or something?

Again, I'm jealous. I would really like a little head.

(I'm going to keep saying that lame joke until someone laughs)

anyone else rather see Cedeno in the 2 spot.
Hairston was so eager to get a start, it looks like he's just out there getting his hacks in... not trying to move the runner over

dude, I too am jealous of small heads...

The guy at gameday's head probably just blew up.

Lee avoided the tag, almost missed the bag, ended up 3 feet off first towards 2nd, but was allowed to walk back to the bag. thats another error.

I think Lee missed the bag on that play.

when hairston is pressing, he seems to hit the ball in the air a lot. 2 flyouts today.

Dost my eyes deceive me, or did I really just see the Cubs execute a successful double steal with less than 2 outs?

Nice, another error!!! JP scores, lee to 3rd, barret to 1st

that's actually their 2nd double steal of the game... ps..are you really doug dscenzo or just a fan?

I have the dude's autograph

encarnacion now has 3 errors today, had 2 already giving him 5 in what, 7 games this year? wow.

man.... pagan just missed a triple by about 2 inches down the 3B line

Damn if we aren't doing it again in the third MannyT.

It's like a primer on how to shake up a defense with speed.

Unfortunately, no I'm not really Doug Dascenzo, but he is one of my favorite Cubbies of all time. The real Doug D is currently the manager of the Padres' A-ball team. No word on whether or not he's also coming out of the bullpen occasionally.

That's 3 errors in 1 inning.

Doh.. barret gets picked off and lee thrown out at the plate. Should have come away with more from 2 steals and 3 errors. F**ing jerry hairston

What a weird looking line for both teams
Reds 0 0 5
Cubs 3 2 0

So is that a CS for DLee? Stats lie.

"It's like a primer on how to shake up a defense with speed."

Now you see why Dusty loves a real leadoff hitter, like in 2003 with Lofton.

I guess, I dunno, they threw to first, then to 2nd, never tagged barret, then home to get lee

Dusty still hasn't learned what to do with the f**ing two hole.

Wow...jsut got caught up with the game, and the Reds have five errors!!

Thoughts on yesterday.... we could have gotten Willy Moe pena for Williams or Rusch....

I'd love to see Willy Moe on this team, and not just because its in the top 5 of best sports names around today

Now you see why Dusty loves a real leadoff hitter, like in 2003 with Lofton.

Everyone loves a real leadoff hitter, they're just not always available and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole doesn't help the situation. You have to be able to adjust to your talent, not force feed your ideas if the roster can't handle it. is a caught stealing.

Who doesn't like a real leadoff hitter?

This Maddux guy is going to be good.

You mean like keep a 4/8 lifetime hitter with 2HR's against the opposing starting pitcher starting at 2nd and batting 2nd?

Another odd stat - Maddux has five k's through 3 2/3 innings. That is great to see!

This encarnacion guy has some pop. just hit a very long strike.. and then an RBI double

anyone watching the game - why did the throw come home?

They really have to do something about this 2nd base situation. if bynum and neifi can both play all three infield positions, then we don't need a platoon at 2nd. I really don't see walker's D as being that much of a detriment, especially if hairston is going to Bitch and Moan and not move runners over.

Did Griffey just get hurt?

they really could/ should have thrown Dunn out. Cedeno skipped it to Barret on the 1B side of home

Barrett was fooled by that throw from Cedeno. Was that just Barrett being Barrett going to his right or was it a case of not having much experience with throws from Cedeno?

They shoulda had Dunn at home--the throw shorthopped Barrett or he was out.

Apparently, it also hurts Junior when he swings. This is an epidemic that you do not want your hitters to get, unless his name is Corey Patterson

Rubby still has a Giants hat on in ESPN Gameday...

Did Griffey get hurt? Gamecast has Freel replacing him in CF....

Couldn't agree more with all the comments about Walker. The guy has been tearing the cover off the ball so far. It's not like he's in a wheelchair at second.

I call it a bad throw

good eye neifi

So is Neifi on the Glendon Rusch diet, or vice versa

Now you see why Dusty loves a real leadoff hitter, like in 2003 with Lofton.
Posted by: mannytrillo

Well, if I'd been posting here in 2003 you'd know that I thought Lofton was the key that started the engine that year.

short hopped the throw but Barrett didn't do much to go after it either, he sort of reached for it instead of moving for it and he had plenty of time as Dunn was still a few feet away

Pickle gets Murton, and Cedeno was being stupid at 1st, inning over... so these were those fundemantals that Baker "assumes" everyone has learned eh??

this sounds like a pretty sloppy game.

Other than maddux, it hasn't been pretty

Whole lot of sloppy, but Maddux looks fantastic.

You know its a surreal world when you find yourself thinking:
"the cubs have Got to find a way to beat the Reds"

but its true

I sense a Mad dog HR right now

So I'm a bad "senser"

Anyone else notice that Brenley really likes to make apoligies for the cub players. he's like the Anti Steve Stone... he just pretty much said that yesterday was just one of those days. really bob, what about his last start.

has Pierre hit a line drive yet this year? he can't bunt his way on every single at bat.

hehe... Mark Prior autographed photo. Lucky winners also eligible for free Lawsuit, and your name honorably mentioned on the DL

Yeah Pierre had a wicked rope RBI single on Friday.

Is it fair to say that the Cubs have had a great start when not facing Bronson Arroyo?

Dude, even though the the Cincinnati Errors kind've gave this one away for their starter, I still like the way they're playing. Plus, Barrett is on his way to another Silver Slugger. He's been on fire lately.

... Probably also could have gotten him from the Sox

two out rbi's=winning team

Orroyo that is

Anyone else notice that Brenley really likes to make apoligies for the cub players.

Yesterday, I caught about 5 minutes of the TV broadcast and the whole time, Brenly was going on about what a great versatile asset Rusch is for the team.

Now, judging from the comments here, I'm a bigger Rusch fan that anybody who posts here, but even I wanted to puke.

we did fine against Arroyo the 1st time out, it's his bat we couldn't keep in check...

Hey, Barrett is leading MLB with 13 RBI (tied with A Jones)

Hey, Barrett is leading MLB with 13 RBI (tied with A Jones)

How is Pagan's defense? If its even close to being on par with JJ, I'd almost rather have him patrolling RF.

side note---why is maddux so good? because every time i look at my gameday it says "Pitch 1: strike 1"

I agree that Rusch can be a good swing man. Long reliever and SPOT starter, but he should not be guaranteed a spot in the rotation. Quite possible that is the reason he showed up to camp out of shape... phat contract=fat pitcher

Also, when we are winning, enjoy it and stop complaining guys. Be a fan and enjoy it while it lasts and let the pessimism go for now.

Go Cubs '06

I definitley like Pagan over jones in right..
Oh poop, williamson is warming up... gotta keep the pitchers who's names start with Williams off of the mound!

Maddux's pitch location to Dunn looked like Maddux circa 1996. Every pitch could have fit into a teacup.

I'll stop complaining when we win the World Series, until then, i reserve the right to bitch.. and yes I know, that could very well make me miserable for the rest of my life

*according to Gamecase

I guess my earlier question should have been:

Is it fair to say that the Cubs have had a great start when not starting Glendon Rusch?

I hope Z goes 9 tomorrow, because I believe Friday there will be alot of calls to the bullpen.

Anyone else notice that Brenley really likes to make apoligies for the cub players.

I think Brenly takes the managerial approach to broadcasting. I agree that generally he stands up for the players, but sometimes he absolutely rips into them if he thinks its necessary. I remember some of the things he said last year about ARam not running out pop-ups were pretty harsh -- tasteful, and true, but harsh.

I hope Z goes 9 tomorrow

If only he threw like Maddux. If he goes 9, he'll throw 200 pitches.


YES...It's up to Dusty and Hendry to NOT start him again -- we have other options and lets use them...Rusch should be selectively used as a reliever BUT not guaranteed a spot in the starting rotation....Rusch does NOT have the command and control to start for the Cubs.

Wow...can we be any more agressive on the basepaths todyay?

Heh. DLee - 2 stolen bases, 2 caught stealing.

Can I say that I love that Eyre is pitching a second inning?

Sure go ahead.

Okay...I love that Eyre is pitching a second inning.


Our bullpen is damn good.

Hold that thought.... YEs Yes they are...

i didnt tink that we are gonna win whit this lineup, lets go cubs, were excited here in honduras

"YES...It's up to Dusty and Hendry to NOT start him again -- we have other options and lets use them...Rusch should be selectively used as a reliever BUT not guaranteed a spot in the starting rotation....Rusch does NOT have the command and control to start for the Cubs."

Its funny, many on here last year were complaing that Dusty used him in relief and not only as s tarter. Now it is reveresed. Rusch is just not good and hendry signed him to a 2 year deal...UGH!!!

"Wow...can we be any more agressive on the basepaths todyay?"

I think Lee missed a sign there. No reason to hit and run with 1 out and Barrett up there.

lets get dempster ready

Re: #58
Dusty still hasn't learned what to do with the f**ing two hole.Insert "head in the way" comment here...?

I think Lee missed a sign there.

Or maybe Dusty has given him the green light. Or maybe it was a straight steal that Dusty called.

Why do you assume that it was a missed sign?

dempster isnt sharp today

Is it possible the Cubs tried the "double suicide" just without the runner on 3rd on Lee's second CS?

the cubs win !!!!!!


I was not in favor of keeping Rusch in any position on the Cubs team...It's becoming clear that Hendry made a big mistake by rolling the dice and gambling that Rusch could be an effective starter...For $2.75 Million/year I think there may have been other options...The Cubs bullpen is much better this year and Dempster continues to deliver a solid performance as a closer...Now, if we could only get Prior or Wood to come back and stay healthy for the season...;-)

"Why do you assume that it was a missed sign?"

BEcause it would be senseless to run there or hit and run. If Dusty did call it, it was a HORRIBLE call. But Lee looked in to Barrett like Barrett msised s ahit and run sign.

if we get prior and wood in good shape, only the sky its the limit


"I was not in favor of keeping Rusch in any position on the Cubs team"
This is why I strapped my sons' right arms to them making them left handed. You pitch lefty you are employed, you are moderate lefty you are rich.

Love the optimism. GO Cubs!!

Dusty still hasn't learned what to do with the f**ing two hole.

Every time I see Neif! there lately I think of the book:

Batting Order: If nothing else, we will consider this book a true success if all thirty teams were to never put a below-average hitter in the second spot. While the proper strategy will only gain you a few runs, why do something that is otherwise clearly wrong?

I realize he didn't do it today, and that other teams do it all the time, we put one of the worst hitters ever there.

Without going into numbers - why have a fast guy on first to steal - if you're just going to sacrifice him over anyway? Isn't the whole point of a steal moving without losing an out?

Wow...what a difference a day makes. Pitching was horrible yesterday and today, Maddux, Eyre and Dempster looked good.

Barrett is really stroking the ball right now. Liked to see lots of running and hit and runs today. Speed is our friend this year.

Go Cubs! FIRST PLACE!! 5-2..

go cubs baby, i can feel this is the year, remenber my words people, in octuber were gonna be champions

I'd just like to point out I don't know Aaron Gleeman - but his article today is a real coincidence compared to what I just said.

Is Neifi the worst hitter ever.

5-2. Very sweet.

A lot of us (myself included) were just hoping to tread water around .500 through April until we start to get our horses back. Now we're a third of the way through April and sitting in first place.

It's way to early to start to think crazy thoughts, but this start is exactly what we needed. A month or so from now we could be looking at a rotation of Z, Maddux, Wood, Prior, Miller.

This could get very interesting.

Very funny but unfortunately very true.
Can we expect a rise in Neifie's average as he grows older like Bonds?


"if we get prior and wood in good shape"

Todays Chicago Tribune has a picture of Prior "throwing" his white fluffy friend, a towel.

no, neifi is not a good hitter, but he could have better #s if he didnt listen to the manager when he asks him to put a ball in play to a specific field or perform a specific runner moving task.

neifi's role on a club isnt neccesarily to swing when he's a/b. he's a contact hitter who dont have issues with his ego or numbers.

next up: an article proving why adam dunn isnt a guy who should ever be a/b when runners are on. btw, scarily, he has #s that can make a case for that...ha.

how long until prior, wood, and miller returns ?

I was expecting Maddux to be a total bust(due to age) this years. So far, so good.
Keep proving me wrong , Greg!

It's easy to say you're not concerned with numbers if your numbers suck. Color me unconvinced. Angel Pagan, however, now there's a diamond in the rough.

wood expected back in 2-3 weeks...prior/miller too soon to call, but shouldnt be too many more weeks behind. it all depends on their throwing and how they feel the day after to how they progress and how much non-mlb rehab they're in store for.

Salvador --

They are saying Wood will be back late April, Prior and Miller a couple of weeks later.

Ha...this quote from the Gleeman article is brilliant.

From Neifi:
"It was a lucky day. Any time I get three hits it's a lucky game. I'm not a great hitter."

Always good to get a win on one of these "throw-away line-up days" that Baker likes to have! I feel like we stole one here.

The best part about Maddux's performance so far this season as been giving up only one home run in 12.1 innings. That is a HR/9 rate of 0.73, more like the Maddux of old and not the last two years. Last year it was 1.16, the year before an un-Maddux like 1.48. His last three years in Atlanta his HR/9 rate was 0.80. (His career HR/9 rate is 0.61...we won't see that again.)

Baseball Prospectus system predicted a bounce-back year for Maddux, with a return of his ERA to the 3's premised almost entirely on an assumption that he would cut down his home run rate significantly from the 2004-05 levels. I was skeptical of that projection at first--but I am now very hopeful.

DC Tom: "Always good to get a win on one of these "throw-away line-up days" that Baker likes to have! I feel like we stole one here."

It doesn't have to be a "throw-away" day when your team has some depth, not to mention some new dimensions (mostly speed). The Cubs didn't make wholesale upgrades in the offseason, but they added a lot of little elements that have come together nicely so far. I'm a fan of the "little things" approach. Let's hope it holds up.

not to mention the 3rd/RF was unavailable due to minor injury.

t.walker has had suprising success vs. claussen, but playing j.hairston isnt exactly a chump move.

still a nice day for a team who only fielding 1 guy with 30+HR power and a couple of 15+HR guys in barrett/murton.

pierre/hariston got on base and both used their speed...pagan proved to be a nice RH bench option.

the 5 errors were a nice gift, too.

as I mentioned earlier, Baker seems determined to start the better defender on days Maddux pitches...I applaud the move.

Not making fun or anything, but Salvador inadvertently coined the word "Octuber" and I think this is an appropriate description of the usual Cub Fan behavior during the playoffs: just bury your head in the dirt rather than watching other NL teams play for the pennant.

I get a happy feeling thinking about Salvador celebrating any Cub victory, no matter how ugly.

Sorry crunch - I don't buy it. You're right - generally speaking poor hitters are asked to do things that then make their numbers worse (put the ball in play, hit behind the runner) but that isn't just Neifi specific. If you want to say that managers do stupid things in the name of conventional wisdom - you won't get an argument from me. If you're arguing Neifi is bad at hitting and therefore asked to sacrifice himself out like he's a pitcher well... I think you just proved the point.

Of course there is a flaw in Gleeman's methodology in that of course there have been worse hitters than Neifi - they just didn't stick around long enough in the majors to actually rack up the total Runs Created Below Average. Still - it pains me to think we're paying this guy 5 mil for the next two years to do what a minor leaguer could do.

i started my statement saying neifi's a bad hitter...the study is just kinda gung-ho.

and unfortunately (or not considering he's around 2 years), neifi's D at both SS and 2nd isnt something even a lotta crap hitting minor leaguers could step up and do on his level.

neifi is a guy you put up to the plate (if you're that type of manager) when you wanna move a guy...he's gonna swing, he'll rarely K, he'll put the ball in play. i'm not gonna argue whether that's a good thing or not a huge fan, but its done a lot all over mlb.

hopefully cedeno can keep healthy AND productive, walker/hairston can stay healthy, and we wont have to see more than 250-300ab of neifi this year.

Dave, I don't think he coined a phrase. I'm no Columbo here but earlier he said that he's from Honduras and they speak Spanish there and the Spanish word for October is Octubre.

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