No Sweep For You

GAME 25 REVIEW
PIRATES 8 CUBS 0
Recap | Box Score | Play-by-play | Game Chart | Photos
W: Zach Duke (2-2) L: Angel Guzman (0-1)
Greg Maddux was named April Pitcher of the Month, that's cool. Plus he pitches tomorrow versus the Diamondbacks. And that's about all the good news we have for today. Angel Guzman looked the part of a rookie once again, occassionally brilliant, occassionally wild, giving up 2 runs in the first in a sequence of events that looked like this if you were scoring at home: HBP, K (swinging), 2B (RBI Sanchez), BB, FC-3, WP (Run Scored), BB, GO-3. He then gave up a 2-run homer to a guy hitting worse than Jacque Jones. And then with the game still possibly within reach in the 6th, Guzman put a couple runners on before yielding to Roberto Novoa who promptly booted a tapper that would have ended the inning without a run crossing the plate, instead four did and that was more than enough for Cubs nemesis Zach Duke. For the 2nd time in this young season, Duke made Cubs hitters look like he was throwing ping-pong balls out there, only allowing 5 hits and one walk for his first career shutout. Congratulations kid and let me be the first to say that I hope we miss you the next time our two teams battle. Off to Arizona where the players can hook up with the spring training groupies they met in March. I kid, actually they can say hello to half the team that is rehabbing.
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Comments

So today is a big day....if the yankees decide to not bring up the once highly touted Carlos Pena he will be a free agent. Hopefully Hendry will take a flyer on a free be as Carlos Pena...what the heck do we have to lose...he is definetly a better upgrade than Nefi Perez....(Walker would be play second)...

thoughts

Any body know how Kerry Wood did today in A ball?

pena has lost bat speed and is very out of shape.

i dont get the love for this reject. he screwed up...he got lazy...now he'll be lucky to be someone's AAAA trash until he decides he wants to be a baseball player again.

his laziness with his training and his weight has turned him into a 28 year old slow as hell guy who's power has disappeared. yeah, playing in detroit isnt the greatest motivation in the world, but there's very little excuse for letting himself slip like he did.

game starts in 10 mins spongebob.. (730est)

dur..my bad..he's not pitching in the game i dont think.

Guys, I think this signing is going to make all the difference in the world. With Pena we're a lock to win 95 games. And when Prior and Wood get back our rotation is going to be stacked.

Oh, by the way, there's this bridge...........

Crunch...i agree he is lazy...he isn't what he was supposed to be...but answer this....is he better than seein Nefi everyday!

I love the Cubs, but after watching today's game I am, quite frankly, disgusted. I know from personal experience that a pitcher can simply have the upper hand on a team sometimes. It's just one of "those things" in baseball...Furthermore, I counted on today being a loss, as the Cubs are missing their best hitter, as well as their best hitter against LHP. But to see our hitters refusing to take a few pitches early in the game from a man who has been giving up massive BB's annoys the hell out of me. Furthermore, games like the last 4 have made me really realize how much this team could use Pagan. Without him, Dusty really doesn't have much of a choice other than to play Jones, who just doesn't hit LHP well at all. I know that we probably aren't going to have another stretch of tough lefties like we have on this homestand for the rest of the season, but it's just very humiliating to see major league hitters go up there and look like they have no clue. Popped up bunts, hitting into double plays, not taking pitches from a man who has been a little wild this season--what happened to the fundamentals that made this team exciting to watch during the first couple of weeks?

Like I said, I was counting on us losing this game, since Duke thrives at Wrigley, and since we were putting a rookie on the mound (albeit against a Quadruple-A lineup) who seems nervous as hell (anyone else notice how badly his glove and hand were shaking in the first inning? You aren't witnessing a man on a bender, but are actually viewing someone who's scared out of his mind), but we could have at least made this a closer game. Who knows...maybe if we bunt or try a hit-and-run when we have men on base with nobody out, maybe it could have been a 2-1 ballgame in the 3rd, which would possibly alter how Guzman pitched to the Pirates. And if the team could have taken a few pitches here and there, maybe we could have gotten some runners on base and even *gasp* in scoring position...The whole complexion of the game could have been changed against a pitcher who likes to face us...maybe he makes a critical mistake, or maybe his pitch count gets high and he gets yanked for a crappy reliever. Either way, it'd make it a much more entertaining game to watch. And, more importantly, it'd give me, as a fan, a lot more hope about the rest of the season.

As it is, my only hope right now is that we either face very bad RHP for the rest of the year, or that we get Wood, Prior, and Lee back in the next 2 weeks. Neither of which is going to happen.

i dont get the love for this reject.

Crunch - would you say that he would be better than Neifi/Hairston? Because that is the question.

If we have Pena, Walker plays second and Pena plays first. I see it as an upgrade (though not a huge one.

Pena has a career .789 OPS. Hairston has a caeere .703 OPS. That's not a meaningless difference by any means, but even assuming Pena is up to career par, how significant is that difference for the next six weeks? Does it even amount to 10 additional runs? As a free agent pick up it wouldn't be bad but I can't imagine trading anything but a 50K value player for that use.

well if he gets released, we don't have to trade anything to find out

Crunch...i agree he is lazy...he isn't what he was supposed to be...but answer this....is he better than seein Nefi everyday!

No need to answer that since Neifi isn't playing everyday.

Pena is just a very bad baseball player. He doesn't do anything well. He is a career .243 hitter. Even in his best year he hit .241.

I prefer Walker and Hairston to anything involving Pena playing everyday on this team. Besides if the Cubs did get Pena why not just bring up Brandon Sing instead? Likely to get the same results but atleast the team is looking internally for help instead of bringing in some scrub and handing him a full-time gig.

I know Sing hasn't earned it, but damn if the team wants a 1b man bad enough to get Pena, reward Sing instead of the other guy.

For what it's worth, i go to school in Michigan and have a ton of friends that are Tiger's fans and had the opportunity to watch Pena a ton last year. He is kind of an enigma. He will hit 5 hr's in a week and then go 0-week. In reality, we really don't have anything to lose, but if we can catch a few weeks (8-10) of lightning in a bottle he will be worth it. However, in the larger picture...he really just isn't very good offensively.

well my views on pena have nothing to do with what he was in 2000 or 2004. it also has nothing to do with neifi or dusty or george bush or the easter bunny.

pena's bat speed isnt gonna rediscover 10mph overnight. he cant undo nearly 2 year of bad conditioning on an already overweight body just cuz he gets cut by the yanks.

Wood pitched well today and we needed it. We need Wood Prior and Lee........ Desperately.

from the muskrat at mlb.com

"On Tuesday, Wood pitched for the Cubs' Rookie League team in a Spring Training game in Mesa, Ariz., and he gave up one hit and struck out eight over five scoreless innings. He did not walk a batter. Wood has been rehabbing from arthroscopic surgery on his right shoulder, which he had in late August."

36 pitches to get through the first inning, 92 pitches through 5IP, 7Ks, 3BBs, 2WP and a HBP.

Looks like Kerry Wood pitched for the Cubs today.

pie playing RF tonite...for those that might care.

not the first time Pie's done that this season.

yeah, im just feeding the fire a bit...

the club is determined to have pie up eventually this year...it could come sooner than later if the offense continues to have no life. i dont really think he's ready to add anything close to what d.lee took away, but well...*shrug*

Sheets 8H, 5ER, 2IP so far.

Here's my two cents: The Yankees wanted Pena for his glove so they wouldn't have to play Giambi at first. He would hit 9th in their lineup. Since they haven't brought him up with absolutely zero offensive expectations should tell us everything we need to know.

I agree with Mike C. Bring up Sing until we get ourselves a first baseman. Worse case he can go in late in the game for D.

As for Aramis, you have to move him to 3rd in the lineup. Murton 4th, Walker 5th, Barrett 6th and Jones 7th. If you run with Pierre and Cedeno, at least Rami will get some fastballs...

Thanks to AZ Phil for the update on Montanez and Coats...

from a chicago weblog...

"The Cubs continue to struggle offensively after losing Derek Lee with two broken bones in his wrist. Lee went on the disabled list on April 21. The Cubs have batted .214 since that date. Manager Dusty Baker said general manager Jim Hendry is looking for ways to add more offense. The Cubs are 3-7 against lefty starters this season and batting .192 as a team against southpaws."

For the amount of money Hendry wasted on Rusch on Jones he could have gone with Jeromy Burnitz in 2006...Burnitz batted .258 with 24 homers and 87 RBIs last season ó his only one with the Cubs ó but the team decided not to pick up his $7 million option and instead signed Jacque Jones to play right field.

Zach Duke (2-2) is now 2-0 this season against the Cubs. He also was 2-0 against Chicago a year ago as a rookie, beating Greg Maddux twice at Wrigley Field. In 32 career innings against the Cubs, he's given up just two earned runs (0.56 ERA). And in 25 innings at Wrigley Field, he's yielded one earned run (0.36).

Have you looked at Burnitz's numbers so far this season?

Burnitz has been in an early season slump (sorta like Ramirez)...Yet, I think Burnitz is a much better player than Jaque Jones...We'll see...It will be interesting to see how they both do this year...For the Cubs' sake, lets hope that Jones gets hot and can deliver a lot of timely RBI hits.

Again, with the grass is always greener...

Yes we could have kept Burnitz, but how exactly would that be an upgrade over Jones?

Burnitz 06 218/255/416 (671 OPS)
Burnitz 05 258/322/435 (757 OPS), 5 SB

Jones 06 219/261/453 (714 OPS)
Jones 05 249/319/438 (757 OPS), 13 SB

So for slightly less money, we got a player who hit nearly exactly the same as Burnitz last year, is hitting better than Burnitz this year, is several years younger, and is significantly faster.

Not only that, but Jones severe splits give him the potential to do far better than Burnitz if he is platooned and only faces RHP.

Now, the 3 year contract wasn't a great idea, but in terms of performance this year, why are we complaining that we don't have Burnitz anymore?

the market dictated the 3 year contract. whether it was smart or not to sign it, both jones and encarcenon were playing stl and the cubs vs. each other on 5-5.5m a year 3-year deals.

RF the past 2 years has been an insanely tight market. OF'rs pass through the FA+trade markets like water the past few years, but a decent RF has been something hard to obtain in both markets. hell, burnitz ended up getting into a bidding war with pitt/baltimore and got 6.7m bucks. there was talk of him having to "settle" for 5m a year all winter after his age/stamina problems showed last year.

On the bright side for me... my other fantasy team (not my TCR team) I own both Capuano & Duke. :)

I thought Angel Guzman pitched OK today. It doesn't help when the offense reports to the park DOA/MIA, and when a relief pitcher comes into the game with the Cubs down 4-0, runners at 2nd & 3rd, two outs, and with a .200 hitter at the plate, and proceeds to implode. Roberto Novoa's performance in "relief" was simply terrible.

And Hendry did NOT mortgage the farm system when he made the deal for Juan Pierre. Sergio Mitre is out of minor league options, and Renyel Pinto is 2nd in the PCL in walks and will be out of minor league options next Spring Training. Neither had a future with the Cubs.

I will acknowledge that Ricky Nolasco will probably be a good MLB starting pitcher and I wish the Cubs still had him, but I would take Sean Marshall and Angel Guzman over Nolasco long-term, and Nolasco is not going to be significantly better than either Jae-kuk Ryu or Carlos Marmol, in my opinion. And then further down the line, there is Sean Gallagher, Mark Holliman, Chris Shaver, Donald Veal, Mark Pawelek, and Mitch Atkins, plus several other pitchers (Rocky Cherry, Robert Ransom, Billy Petrick, and Chadd Blasko) who could still eventually return to their prior form from elbow or shoulder injuries, so to me, it was Nolasco for Pierre, and with a need for a lead-off hitter coming into this season a high-priority, and with the Cubs minor league pitching depth, it was a price worth paying. Now, Pierre just has to do a better job of getting on base.

As for the rest of the lineup, there is an absolute need for another run producer in the middle of lineup (somewhere 4-5-6). I don't care what his OBP is, he just needs to play 1B and drive-in runs such that Walker can go back to hitting #2.

Until D-Lee returns, I would hit Walker #2, Murton #3, and keep Ramirez in the #4 hole, because if A-Ram doesn't hit, the Cubs aren't going anywhere anyway. But there needs to be a dangerous proven run producer hitting behind Ramirez. And I still maintain that should be Tony Clark, even if the price is Rich Hill and Will Ohman (which I believe it would be). BTW, I still like Ohman a lot, but he needs to be used exclusively as a LOOGY to be most-effective. In that role, he is very good. But Clay Rapada (the closer at AA West Tenn) has the exact same stuff as Ohman, and with his plus breaking stuff, I believe he is capable RIGHT NOW of being a big league LOOGY. Which is why I would be willing to trade Ohman. And Rich Hill is as attractive right now as he ever will be.

Also, I like Ronny Cedeno in the #8 hole because I prefer to see aggressive hitters batting ahead of the pitcher. And Jacque Jones needs to sit against all LHP starters. He won't, but he should.

SCOTT:"Yet, I think Burnitz is a much better player than Jaque Jones"

You are smoking crack again. These two are pretty even offensively. But if you've been watching games, or going to them as I do, JJ makes plays that Burnitz just is not "programmed" to do anymore. He's slower, and not athletic in the least. Burnitz cannot steal a base either which is something that Jones does. And, they both are good at stupid base running mistakes - so its a draw there. Angel Pagan was a great surprise. Had the Cubs known his ability, perhaps they may not have signed JaCque Jones (notice the "c" in the name Jacque)

E-MAN: I agree that Jacque Jones is more athletic than Burnitz and plays a crash & burn-style defense that can turn a game around, but I prefer a more stable player in RF. It doesn't have to be Burnitz, just not Jacque Jones. I also am getting tired of Jacque's ten foot throws directly into the ground that bounce a dozen times into the infield.

Jones is a better defender when he plays LF, in my opinion. His bizarre worm-killer throws and wild pigeon-killing flings aren't as costly when they come from LF, because 3B is a lot closer to LF than it is to RF when a runner is going from 1st to 3rd, and the catcher can always come up the line to get a throw from LF which he can't do for throws coming into home from RF.

Dusty Baker apparently thinks Jones should play LF, too, because Matt Murton was asked in Spring Training if he would be willing to try RF, but he declined.

AZ Phil: thanks for sharing your thoughts...the Cubs have been hanging in there above .500 in spite of the key players who are injured. I still think it will be tough for them to make any legitimate push for first place without Lee, Wood, and Prior. They'll need at least two of those guys in the lineup to have a chance...They'll also need a very productive Ramirez...Who knows, maybe they will surprise all of us...;-)

...and Mitch Atkins

AZ Phil:

Could you give a scouting report on Atkins. I noticed he's had some strong outings at low-A ball including his last being 6 shutout IP and 8K's (and overall 31K's in 27IP). He's a name that has until now flown below my radar screen.

The first time I heard of him was in the most recent Baseball America prospect report mailing mentioned him in their highlighted prospect linescore:

CHC LoA Atkins, Mitch....6.0 5 0 0 1 8 1.67 - G2; 31 K's in 27 IP

All winter long I said that Hendry needed to fill 2 offensive holes: leadoff and #5. Jones is just not a number 5. We don't have a 5 and that makes losing Lee all the more problematic.

For what its worth, Burnitz is not a 5 either. He's a 6. Given his second half, I wasn't surprised the Cubs passed.

I think the Cubs felt they would do better than Jones in the off season but just like last summer's trading deadline, the market fooled them.

You'll have to overpay right now to fix this 1st base/slugger problem but you don't have a choice. People just need to realize that when the pitcher or player we trade turns out good.

Carmen, What do you think of Murton as a #5?

i dont think the market fooled the cubs.

the FA RF market was giles, r.sanders, burnitz, encarcenon, and j.jones. the trade market for RF'rs has been dead for almost 2 years.

giles turned down 3/33m to go take his .400ob% and declining slugging back to SD for 3/30. sanders got 2/10m...burn got 1/6.7m...encarcenon got 3/15...jones got 3/16.

#35 of 36: By Cubster (May 2, 2006 10:37 PM)
...and Mitch Atkins

AZ Phil:

Could you give a scouting report on Atkins. I noticed he's had some strong outings at low-A ball including his last being 6 shutout IP and 8K's (and overall 31K's in 27IP). He's a name that has until now flown below my radar screen.

CUBSTER: From the times I have seen Mitch Atkins in the minor league camp over the past couple of years, I liked his fastball OK (nice sinking action), but he has a really NASTY slider that he has had big-time problems throwing for strikes in the past. He's only 20, and when I saw him this year in minor league camp, it looked like he had put on a few pounds. Not that he looked fat, just that he seems to be filling out.

He also seems to have finally gotten his mechanics straightened out to where he is now throwing all of his pitches (two-seam fastball, slider, and change) for strikes. As such, he suddenly becomes one of the Cubs top ten or 15 pitching prospects, because he certainly has the natural stuff to be an outstanding pitcher.

For those not familiar with Atkins, he was selected by the Cubs in the 7th round of the 2004 Rule 4 (June) Draft out of a North Carolina high school, and he has always had outstanding potential. He spent the previous two seasons in Extended Spring Training & short-season leagues, where he struggled, but he seems to have finally "found the light" at Peoria.

I am also happy to see that Rocky Cherry (drafted by the Cubs out of the University of Oklahoma back in 2002) is back in action and throwing the ball VERY well at AA West Tenn. Rocky had Tommy John surgery a year or two ago, but he seems to be about back to where he was before the surgery. If so, I would keep an eye on him, because I always thought his stuff was as good as any pitcher in the organization. He is being used out of the bullpen right now, but hopefully he will be back starting again before too long.

Steve Holley wrote an article on Atkins last year. He throws in the low 90s with a curve and a change. The offspeed pitches are supposed to be his bread and butter, I believe. AzPhil can either confirm or deny this. The pitcher I'd like to know more about is Jesus Yepez. I know some guys at BA like, but I have no clue what he throws, nor can I find anything anywhere about him.

All I can say is that he is one ugly kid.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/23/231574.jpg

Or he can deny it before I post, even better.

AZ will be sending out Miguel Batista Wednesday night. Maybe Pierre and Jones shake off the early season mediocrity/disaster (respectively). Lefthanders are currently hitting Batista at a .386 clip. One can hope any way.

I'm sitting here watching AZ pour it on LA at the moment. They've scored 9 runs so far. That's more than twice as many as the Cubs have put up in the last four games. Outscored 35-3 over those 4 games. Dang. Hard to believe.

Anyway, here's to hoping Walker et al can get it going against a pitcher every one has got it going on against.

#40 of 42: By Ienpw (May 2, 2006 11:44 PM)
Steve Holley wrote an article on Atkins last year. He throws in the low 90s with a curve and a change. The offspeed pitches are supposed to be his bread and butter, I believe. AzPhil can either confirm or deny this. The pitcher I'd like to know more about is Jesus Yepez. I know some guys at BA like, but I have no clue what he throws, nor can I find anything anywhere about him.

----

IENPW: When I've seen Mitch Atkins, I just saw fastball-slider-change. I don't remember seeing a curve, but his slider (which I would call a "hard" slider) would be his best pitch if he can throw it for strikes, because his fastball is OK but isn't anything special. I suspect he may have improved his change to where it's now an "out" pitch for him against lefties (because lefties used to hit him hard), but he would probably use the slider as his "out" pitch against right-handed hitters. Unfortunately, I can't see his games during the season, so I don't know for sure how he is getting it done for Peoria.

AZ Phil:
"Dusty Baker apparently thinks Jones should play LF, too, because Matt Murton was asked in Spring Training if he would be willing to try RF, but he declined."

Do you have a link to show the article of where Murton said he will not move to RF? For basically a rookie to say that, is HORRIBLE, and if he said that, we should be ROASTING him. Murton seems like a more of a team player than that. If he did say that, his stock dropped a lot in my book.

well that would shock me if Murton did anything along those lines since he played quite a bit of RF in the minors.

"And I still maintain that should be Tony Clark, even if the price is Rich Hill and Will Ohman (which I believe it would be). BTW, I still like Ohman a lot, but he needs to be used exclusively as a LOOGY to be most-effective."
--

Phil, I know you smoke alot of grass to come up with some of your theories, but trading Hill and Ohman for Tony Clark would be a 1st class fleecing. I haven't been that impressed with Hill either, but regardless, his trade value is much greater than Tony Clark. If Clark was hitting this season like he did last season then I'd understand, but he's been terrible so far. It's obvious that something/anything has to be done now because the offense is pathetic, but if you do a trade that involves Hill, then get a guy who really brings something to the table. Call the Pirates, be prepared to bend over and take it in the rear and ask what they want for Wilson. Then he could platoon with Jacque's sorry ass when Lee returns.

i'd like to see that quote by murton as well because i don't believe it either. if switching jones and murton will eliminate runs and the rainbow that comes from a throw by jones let's try it out.

now if the cubs can only get opposing pitchers to throw more than 27 pitches a game that would be great. oh wait can't blame opposing pitchers for that now can we?

i like how duke throws a complete game, yet throws 50 pitches less than 4 cubs pitchers COMBINED!! if we can't hit duke don't you think we should at least run his count up some to get him out of the game earlier. it's not rocket science.

i don't think wood and prior are necessarily the answer. walks have always hurt wood. also the reason his pitch count tops the century mark every time out by the 4th inning. and prior has always thrown well, but gets "no decisioned" or loses with no run support. the team has to start hitting...PERIOD...and teams in the BOB now CHASE have always hit well.

murton doesnt have a RF'rs arm to begin with. last year he was pretty timid in LF. this year, though he's no gold glover, he at least seems comfortable out there.

given his arm isnt all that to begin with, having him in LF and not moving him all over the place isnt that bad of an approach for him.

I remember hearing Murton's refusal to play RF as well. Can't remember where though. I think it was an MLB.com article, though I'm not sure.

The comments were down for a while today, but obviously they're back now!

#47 of 49: By edward (May 3, 2006 01:53 AM)
i'd like to see that quote by murton as well because i don't believe it either.

EDWARD: This is not something I read in a Chicago Tribune article or someplace on the internet. I am your source. It came directly from the horse's mouth, in a conversation overheard in a public place during Spring Training. I know what I heard. But that's all I am going to say about it. If you don't want to believe it, then by all means, don't believe it.

Why is Mike Restovich even on the big league roster? If he doesnt see any playing time with the way Jacque Jones is hitting against lefties, will he ever play? Might as well go with 13 pitchers if Dusty refuses to acknowledge obvious splits and make RF a platoon situation.

I read this board with fascination as both stat heads, amateur scouts, and die hard fans express fantastic and intriguing ideas.

Tony Clark, Carlos Pena, Maybe Doug Mankayvitch (I can't spell this), Mike Sweeney (denied by Hendry), Jeff Conine among others. Why do I want to retch at this list?

Giving up too much would a mistake. I don't regret the Pierre trade for a minute. No sir. However, I would love see Ricky Nolasco starting now. I hated Sergio Mitre, so that is no loss. Guzman is not ready...Clark might hit .230 and with Ramirez, JJ, Pierre all hitting in that range, who needs that (Cendeno has slowed down as well)? Still, I can't imagine giving up too much for an old, over the hill guy who has no chance of finding Maddux like magic in his old age.

I wonder what Hendry will do. What ever he does, this cannot continue. I can barely stand to watch games (go bulls) anymore--I do of course, as a season ticket holder I have to. But, it is really painful.

They remind me of last year. Can't hit lefties, still make some boneheaded plays, no clutch hitting--most games. I won't blame Dusty. Maybe Gene Clines. maybe dusty.

I'm lost.

Phil Rogers suggested maybe moving JJ to first, Walker back to 2nd, and letting Pie play right. Might be worth a try. and it keeps Neifi and Hairston (who I think will NEVER figure it out) on the bench.

My final thought is this who thought we'd miss Jon Koronka? He is having a solid, if unexciting year in Texas. A hitters ballpark no less. We got nothing for him, but I would have given him away too. The guy was so overmatched last summer. Yet, he leaves here and something, within days, clicked. ANother lefty always looks good. Maybe that is overstating the case. I'm sure someone will have stats to blow this idea out of the water :) .

I only thought I'd miss his incredibly hot wife.

Spats

#46 of 51: By big john stud (May 3, 2006 01:28 AM)
Phil, I know you smoke alot of grass to come up with some of your theories, but trading Hill and Ohman for Tony Clark would be a 1st class fleecing. I haven't been that impressed with Hill either, but regardless, his trade value is much greater than Tony Clark. If Clark was hitting this season like he did last season then I'd understand, but he's been terrible so far. It's obvious that something/anything has to be done now because the offense is pathetic, but if you do a trade that involves Hill, then get a guy who really brings something to the table. Call the Pirates, be prepared to bend over and take it in the rear and ask what they want for Wilson. Then he could platoon with Jacque's sorry ass when Lee returns.

----

BIG JOHN: It's not GRASS, man. It's called PEY-O-TE.

Anyway, I can understand why you would say trading Rich Hill and probably Will Ohman for Tony Clark would be a ìfleecingî if you mean the Cubs would not be getting an equal return on the deal, but given the situation, I would be willing to get ìfleecedî to fill this particular need.

Now, I would NOT be willing to trade Sean Marshall or Angel Guzman for Clark, but I believe Hillís trade value is at its highest right now, and I also believe Hill (a young rotation starter with options left) and Ohman (a young LOOGY) is what the Díbacks would want back in a deal for Tony Clark. Otherwise, they will just hang onto him.

And I am not put off by Clarkís slow start, either. If he goes 4 for 6, heís at .250, plus he has been driving the ball, even with his sub-.200 BA. He tied for the D'backs lead in RBI during Spring Training.

From Tony Clark's POV, if he agrees to waive his "no trade" and gets traded to the Cubs and does well but goes to the bench when D-Lee returns, he could demand a trade after the season is over (because he will have been traded in the middle of a multi-year contract), and if he does in fact demand a trade and the Cubs don't trade him by March 15th of next year, he can be a FA and negotiate a much better deal for a lot more money someplace else. So Clark really has nothing to lose and a lot to gain by waiving his "no trade."

That said, I would not be at all opposed to acquiring Craig Wilson from the Pirates for Rich Hill (the Bucs could recall Brad Eldred from AAA to replace Wilson), with Wilson playing 1B for the Cubs until Lee returns, and then moving to RF as Jacque Jonesís platoon partner after that. But there is a difference in salaries involved, where Wilson is making $3.3m in 2006 (plus another $300,000 in performance bonuses tied to PA), while T. Clark is making only a little over $1m each season (2006 and 2007), a very reasonable price for a bat off the bench. So it would cost the Cubs an extra $2.5m in 2006 payroll to acquire Wilson instead of Clark, which is fine with me, but itís not my money.

I also can't see Dusty platooning Jacque Jones with anybody, even if the Cubs were to acquire Craig Wilson. He should, but he won't.

Just when I praise Baker he has to go make a fool of himself and start dropping excuses for the team's lackluster play lately. Are runners clogging the bases, could it be a race issue?

"It matters because you get to see [a lefty], especially on game days," Baker said.

But since Baker came to the Cubs, no one can seem to find someone left-handed in all of Chicago who can throw batting practice before games.

"It matters," Baker said. "It'd be easier if we played a lot of night games because we could find somebody who could come over after work. I don't know why it's been so difficult. We've had a couple guys lined up and it just didn't work."

Are you fucking kidding me? All this money spent on this squad and all of the peeps just dieing to work and play for this clown and he can't find a lefty BP pitcher? Thats our excuse for getting blasted in 3 of the last 4 games?

Last I checked a lefty BP pitcher has nothing to do with our pitching giving up 35 runs in the last 4 games or so. Though Glendon has been throwing BP to opposing teams.

I also can't see Dusty platooning Jacque Jones with anybody, even if the Cubs were to acquire Craig Wilson. He should, but he won't.

Which is why he is a terrible manager. Everything in Jones career splits suggest that he needs to be platooned. Its nothing but pure stubborness that he keeps getting sent out there to give away 4 outs against every lefty we see.

Oh and if you got some spare time, you are a lefty, and live in the Chicago area, drop by the stadium and put your resume in for the job. You could probably make a good living doing that job for the season.

Help Dusty and Hendry out, $90-100 million doesn't go as far as it used to.

"#56 of 57: By aaronb (May 3, 2006 12:47 PM)
Which is why he is a terrible manager. Everything in Jones career splits suggest that he needs to be platooned. Its nothing but pure stubborness that he keeps getting sent out there to give away 4 outs against every lefty we see."

So I guess Ron Gardenhire in Minnesota is a bad manager too?

"#56 of 57: By aaronb (May 3, 2006 12:47 PM)
Which is why he is a terrible manager. Everything in Jones career splits suggest that he needs to be platooned. Its nothing but pure stubborness that he keeps getting sent out there to give away 4 outs against every lefty we see."

So I guess Ron Gardenhire in Minnesota is a bad manager too?

Maybe he is? I dont view it that its ok for Dusty to missmanage Jacque Jones because Ron Gardenhire did. Bruce Kimm wasnt a good manager, so by that same rationale its ok for Dusty to suck as well. I am inclined to give Gardenhire more of a free pass because of the financial limitations in Minnesota. It still doesnt change the fact that years of evidence proves without a shadow of a doubt, that Jacque jones should be sitting in the dugout whenever we are scheduled to face a LHP.

JUST STOP IT: Craig Wilson ain't goin' nowhere. Eldred may be out for the season.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06116/685123-6...

and furthermore. We hear all Dusty's garbage about having vets around because they are dependable. It is ridiculously self defeating to put these vets in positions where you can depend on them to fail. I challenge you to find me ONE shred of evidence to support that Jack Jones can be an effective hitter against lefties.

And I am not put off by Clarkís slow start, either

Are you put off by all the crappy seasons he's had since 2002?

Wrong. You don't just platoon a player. Its not how baseball works. People at Jone's age and salary don't platoon. He was signed as a starter and that's what he'll do.

Gimme an example of any player in Jones' position that platoons. You can't. You're baseless attack of Dusty is unwaranted. My point about Garednhire is that it shows how a guy like Jones is used.

#62 of 63: By Rob G. (May 3, 2006 01:06 PM)
AZ PHIL: "And I am not put off by Clarkís slow start, either."

Are you put off by all the crappy seasons he's had since 2002?

----

ROB G: I would be, except I know what I saw last year. But maybe my eyes were lyin' to me. Maybe the 30 HR were an illusion.

Wrong. You don't just platoon a player. Its not how baseball works. People at Jone's age and salary don't platoon. He was signed as a starter and that's what he'll do.

Gimme an example of any player in Jones' position that platoons. You can't. You're baseless attack of Dusty is unwaranted. My point about Garednhire is that it shows how a guy like Jones is used.

Ok, So know we need to play guys based on salary. Production be damned, Jack Jones is paid like a starter so a starter he will be. I dont buy it for one minute.

"Any body know how Kerry Wood did today in A ball?"

From the Sun Times:

The Cubs will monitor how Kerry Wood feels today and Thursday after he pitched five innings Tuesday for the Mesa Cubs in the Arizona Rookie League.

Wood allowed one hit, struck out eight and threw in the 94 to 96 mph range, general manager Jim Hendry said.

His next outing should come Sunday "in the system,'' Hendry said, possibly at Class A Peoria.

Gammo made reference to Wood last night on BT and claimed that Wood was reaching 97 on the gun with good command.

In his postgame comments Baker was asked about the DL pitchers and commented that expectations in order for return would be
Wood
Prior
Miller
(for what it's worth)

trot nixon/ wily mo pena RF boston red sox

#60 of 64: By dave in pittsburgh (May 3, 2006 01:04 PM)
JUST STOP IT: Craig Wilson ain't goin' nowhere. Eldred may be out for the season.
---

DAVE: Too bad about Brad Eldred. That's a real bummer for a young player trying to get to the big leagues.

Dave, what is the feeling in Pirateland about the 2006 season? With Craig Wilson making $3.3m and with him being a FA after this season, do you think the Pirates will wait until the trading deadline to move Wilson, or would they pull the trigger right now if they could get a pitcher like Rich Hill, and then find a cheaper 1B replacement (like maybe Carlos Pena or Hee Seop Choi) elsewhere? And how long is Sean Casey supposed to be out of action?

My resume that I'm sending to the Cubs to be a batting practice pitcher:

Name: Adam
Height: 6-2
Throws: L
Pitches: 2: Fastball, Underhand soft toss
Top speed: Fastball: 60MPH, Soft Toss: 12MPH

Experience:
8th Grade Baseball Stats:
0IP, 0 wins, 2 Losses, 1Blown save, 8 Hits, 8 Walks, 5HBP, 17 runs

Summer Camp softball:
15 straight complete games, 1 no hitter.

Sing me up!

I think it's reasonable to expect you'll be getting something much closer to the Tony Clark of 2002-2004, not the 2005 version.

"Sing me up!"

La, la-la-la-la, laaaaa

before Casey went down, it was a veteran right handed pitcher the Pirates were looking for to move C. Wilson. Considering they may be mathematically eliminated by June 1st, maybe they'll do a Marlin like gutting pretty soon. We can hope. I'll take Jason Bay and C. Wilson.

I am pretty big on past performance in veterans and what you might expect in future performance. I hated guys like Holly and Neifi because they have virtually no track record of being good.

Tony Clark is almost in that mold but not really. He was actually a pretty good 1b man during a 3 year stretch. In fact you could argue that Clark and DLee experienced almost identical early career success.

He went through several injuries in 2000 and 2001. The most alarming one was a wrist injury that ended his 2001 season. Again similar to Derrek Lee. In his season in Boston the next year he displayed no power, whether that was the lingering effects of the wrist injury is up for debate. He did manage to regain his power stroke with the Mets and Yankees by hitting 16 HR's each of the next 2 seasons in 250 AB's. But his BA was pathetic.

And we all know about what he did for the D'backs.

I think Clark found himself offensively again. I think he is a better player than the one that existed the last 3 years. But Clark loves where is at...

1B Tony Clark said he would agree to waive his no-trade contract if a club is interested in obtaining him, but only if the deal made sense for the Diamondbacks. Clark has started only five of Arizona's first 22 games, but playing time hasn't been an issue. He just knows his name has been linked to possible rumors. "My concern has been and will continue to be what's in the best interest of the Arizona Diamondbacks," Clark said. "Wherever that leads us is wherever that leads us."

I sing as well as I pitch. I can kill two birds with one stone (think Jaque Jones throw yesterday) batting practice pitcher and singer of the National Anthem.

Remember teams like the Pirates, Marlins, and I can't remember the other 2 get more money in revenue sharing than they actually spend on the team.

So they are making a profit off that and what ever money they get through ticket sales. The Pirates don't have to move a single soul on that roster because of financial reasons.

The Marlins gutted their roster because they refused to build a new stadium for them again. It was more out of spite than anything and probably paves the way for them moving the franchise.

"You don't just platoon a player. Its not how baseball works."

Huh? Of course it is. It's exactly how baseball works.

"People at Jone's age and salary don't platoon. "

Jones is 31. Trot Nixon is 32 and can't hit a lefty to save his life. He was a full-time player until 2002, but the fact that he couldn't hit lefties meant his season numbers ended up in the 270/360/460 range.

His last season as a full-time player (2002) he hit 233/303/353 against lefties and only 256/338/470 overall.

In 2003, Grady Little started platooning him. That year, he ended up at 306/396/578, and had similar numbers the next year before he got hurt. He's gone from a guy who could never quite fulfill his potential to a guy who is beloved in Boston -- he plays 120-130 games a year, hits well in the games he plays, and no one seems to care that he can't hit lefties. He made $7.5M last year.

The Pirates may not be the only club looking to dump players if things don't turn around. Anyone want C.Silva, S.Stewart, Hunter or to bring Lohse back to the organization?

thank you christian

In just 349 ABs last season, Tony Clark hit 30 HR and knocked in 87. That prorates out to 40-45 HR and 120-130 RBI over the course of 500-525 ABs. He also went 14-44 (.318) as a PH, with 3 HR and 15 RBI. And although he hit twice as many HR per PA left-handed than right-handed, his LHP/RHP splits were otherwise practically identical. He plays 1B, he is a solid defender, he can play everyday against both RHP and LHP, and he is a proven run producer. And he is a good citizen, too.

and he reportedly brakes for animals and helps old ladies with their groceries whenever he can.

AARON B: Actually, I believe you are correct.

Anyone want C.Silva, S.Stewart, Hunter or to bring Lohse back to the organization?

No, maybe, maybe, HELL NO

So hypothetically speaking if we were to get Hunter and figure out some platoon with Jones, does Baker insist on leaving Pierre in CF or let Hunter play there? Of course I'd assume a trade for Hunter would only be done if someone went down in the OF, we might be able to trade for Stewart and relegate him to platoon/bench duty.

The bigger question if the Twins went trade crazy is would Santana be available? Cause I'd trade anybody for him and that's includes Prior, Wood, Z, you name it.

That's a great outlook, but I think you can get a better player right now for Rich Hill and another prospect or two.
Say the D-Backs would make the deal, does anyone really think Hendry would trade his beloved Rich Hill for Tony Clark?

Clark has good power, I don't doubt any of that (BOB park effects notwithstanding), I think his OBP will be in the 300-310 range though for the rest of his career.

Good bench guy, should cost the price of a good bench guy. I'd possibly consider Jerome Williams cause I never really liked him, but who knows what the D'Backs would ask for....

BIG JOHN: There is a BIG (HUGE) difference between what I would do and what Jim Hendry will do. I would give up Rich Hill and Will Ohman for Tony Clark, but I doubt that Hendry would. And I doubt that the Pirates would trade Craig Wilson for Rich Hill right now, although they might.

As for WWJHD, I would bet that he will acquire Jeff Conine from BAL. Might as well keep trying to reunite the 2003 Florida Marlins at Wrigley Field.

Because Conine was a Type XX FA, he has an automatic "no trade" until June 15th, but even if he waives his "no trade," BAL cannot trade him for anybody making more than $50,000 or for cash in excess of $50,000 before June 15th.

So if the Cubs get Conine in the next few days (they are NOT going to wait until June 15th), it would have to be for a player or two not presently on the 40-man roster, possibly a position player like maybe Casey McGehee, Buck Coats, Luis Montanez, Chris Walker, or Micah Hoffpauir (Orioles choice, take ur pick), and/or a pitcher like Clay Rapada, Randy Wells, Federico Baez, or Thomas Atlee (again, O's choice, take your pick).

Anyway, that's my prediction.

Jeff Conine for a couple of players not on the Cubs 40-man roster. If I HAD to guess which Cubs minor leaguers BAL would take, I would guess Coats and Rapada.

It's not what I would do, but it just sounds like something Hendry would do. And then Conine would stick around as a back-up guy after D-Lee returns.

The bigger question if the Twins went trade crazy is would Santana be available?

I'd have to believe that would be a hearty "NO" no matter what befalls them this year. I think it's more likely that the Cubs combine a few stellar players into a package for Francisco Liriano. How about Pawelek, Rich Hill, and Brian Dopirak?

well if you're the Twins, wouldn't you want to save on Santana's contract and trade him if you had minimum wage Santana Jr. waiting in the wings?

Yes, I would surely. But do you think the Twins, who are struggling enough as it is to stay where they are, could conscionably even think of trading away possibly the best pitcher in the game? Liriano is much more of a lesser known commodity and I'm not sure if they know quite what they have there with him. He could be very possibly be just as good as Santana, and maybe even better.

AZ Phil:

Pirates vibe around here (IMHO) is pretty much getting a 'free pass' for the year due to the ASG buzz. Yes, plenty are crying over the April record, one of the sorriest ever (only one road win, for example), but no one is calling very loudly for Jim Tracy's head yet. Remember, Lloyd MacLendon survived five years of this. A new breed of apathetic fans, from 14 losing seasons, perhaps.

Patience has run out with Oliver Perez, however. The new Mark "The Bird" Fidrych. Send him down. Imagine if KPat were a pitcher.

MikeC is right, there is no overwhelming financial push to gut the team and pocket the difference; ownership is fairly low profile and not overbearing with unrealistic expectations, but this has puzzled me. Doesn't everybody want to be Steinbrenner? I'm wondering whether they're staying quiet and looking to "sell high" after the good national buzz about the club/city this year [the park was public funded, btw, no crushing debt or deal there, I think]

The promotions here are phenomenal at boosting gate. I've been to several "fireworks" or "bobblehead nights" where the walk-up (gameday sales at the box office) is over 10,000, for a house which only seats 38,365. So people really want an excuse to go to the game, if it isn't the team itself. The stats for 'teams which are good road draws' would be especially skewed here.

Otherwise, if locals were as passionate as Cubfans, they'd be just as steamed as the Penguins fans are: "Why In The Hell Do We Pay These Guys As Much As We Do [and get Crosby to boot] Just to Suck This Bad?!?"

Look for the Penguins to leave town btw if the new Pennsylvania slots-casino license awarded to Pittsburgh doesn't go to one of the bidding firms which is promising to build a free new ice arena. Sounds too good to be true...probably is....

blockhead25: I can kill two birds with one stone

Insert Ryu joke here __________________.

AZ Phil, I know you're a big fan of the Cubs going to get Clark, but I read a quote from Clark that said something to the effect of he'll do whatever it takes to help the Diamondbacks, even if it means moving. Does this throw up any red flags? The goal isn't to try to help the Diamondbacks, right?

Other headlines from around the sports world:

-Tiger's dad died.

-The Nationals have a new owner headed by the Lerners.

-Matt Leinart is dating Paris Hilton.

Man, I'm bored. I hate West Coast roadtrips.

Much like simulated games and towel drills, I have grown very tired of minor league rehab stints like the one Wood is about to embark on. I think they are overused and overrated.

In every other sport, when players come back from injury, they come back to the team and work their way in. If he is ready to pitch, he's ready to pitch. There's no less risk of injury in the minors -- he will be going at 100% wherever he is. And I'm not buying that the purpose of the rehab stint is to shake rust off -- isn't that what he's been doing in Arizona? Will pitching against 20 year old starstruck A ball "players" really shake off any rust that will help him prepare for the majors?

No matter when he comes back, his first major league game will be a struggle; the second ML game will be a little smoother than that; and the third ML game a little smoother than the second. I'd like to get over these initial hurdles ASAP.

I should have added:

The question to ask is, Are the Cubs better off with Wood in the rotation starting Sunday, or with Guzman/Hill starting Sunday?

I'll take my chances with Wood, especially since it will accelerate his assimilation back into the team.

Does this throw up any red flags? The goal isn't to try to help the Diamondbacks, right?

I know you've mentioned this a few times, but don't you think it was just a slip of the tongue? I mean, he probably likes the D'backs and doesn't want to say "Yeah, I'd love to leave." So he says something like "I'd be fine with leaving if it helps them out." Whatever the case, if he is traded, I have to imagine his loyalties would shift. What's he going to do? Try to win games for the D'backs while in a Cubs' uni?

I don't see why we're still focused on Clark though. Although he's the best fit, numerous sources have now said the Cubs aren't interested in him. I think this is dead.

No, it wasn't a slip of the tongue. Clark has a very good rapport with the Dbacks -- they're the ones who took a chance on him (or, if you prefer, signed him when no one else would) so he feels indebted to them. He will almost certainly become a coach for them after he retires.

So when he says he'll do it if it will help the Dbacks, he means it. He'll only waive his no-trade if he & the Dbacks feel they're getting adequate talent in return for him.

*** ANGUISHING POST WARNING ***

433: I know, I'm so tired of injuries. The "3rd Annual Wood & Prior Wait" is agonizing. And Derrek Lee... *sigh*

I swear, sometimes I think the Cubs will need to triple to a $300M payroll to make the playoffs.

Still, I think the goal for Wood is to be in good enough shape where when he returns, Dusty doesn't have to use overuse the bullpen. Especially since the bullpen has to be abused every fifth start after the infamous Z meltdown. I think they'd like to bring Wood into the rotation when he can throw a good 90-100 pitches without worry. *

* Tongue-in-cheek.

Clark has good power, I don't doubt any of that (BOB park effects notwithstanding), I think his OBP will be in the 300-310 range though for the rest of his career.

Clark is hitting .189 now but has a .326 OBP. It is safe to say if he only hit .250 as a Cub he could have a .350 OBP.

However for his career isn't a big BB threat. When he is healthy it looks like he could easily be a .270 hitter with a .350-.360 OBP while flashing power. Throw out his Arizona season and pro-rate his two years with the Yankee's and Mets and it averages out to about 30 Hr's and 100 RBI over 500 AB's. And that is with him hitting .220-.232. Look what he did in Arizona when he got that average up.

He is a run producer plain and simple. For a million dollars you can't get any better replacement for Derrek Lee and have the potential to also be an offensive threat.

If he is ready to pitch, he's ready to pitch. There's no less risk of injury in the minors -- he will be going at 100% wherever he is.

433, I hear what you are saying, but I disagree for two reasons:

1) Pitch counts -- Rehab starts are, to my knowledge, meant to continue to build up arm strength. Sure, he can throw 5 innings right now, but you'd like him to be able to throw 6 or 7 if necessary. If he gets in a few tough jams in his first start back and throws 80 pitches in three innings, you're going to put a real strain on your bullpen.

2) Batters -- Let's not kid ourselves, there's a difference throwing towel drills and bullpen sessions for months and then jumping in against MLB batters. Rehab starts allow the pitcher to become accustomed to game situations again and not re-injure himself when he tries to rear back for a little added zip. I have no doubt that if other sports had minor leagues the way baseball does, they'd use them the same way.

No, it wasn't a slip of the tongue.

Fair enough. I'm not terribly knowledgeable of their combined history.

Christian -- that may be true, but I think Andrew's point was that this doesn't imply that Clark will underperform after he is traded, as if his work will be finished simply by participating in a trade.

Nobody really believes that's a risk, do they?

You're probably right on all counts, Andrew. It just sounded "wrong" to me.

#90 of 90: By Ryno (May 3, 2006 02:42 PM)
AZ Phil, I know you're a big fan of the Cubs going to get Clark, but I read a quote from Clark that said something to the effect of he'll do whatever it takes to help the Diamondbacks, even if it means moving. Does this throw up any red flags? The goal isn't to try to help the Diamondbacks, right?

-

RYNO: Tony Clark really loves Phoenix and the Diamondbacks organization, and I would imagine he will work in some capacity for the D'backs after he retires, but I can't see him standing in the way of a trade if he feels the D'backs would be improving themselves over the long-haul by trading him. That's why a Jerome Williams for Tony Clark deal probably woulldn't work, because it would probably be hard for Clark to see Jerome Williams as an improvement over what the D'backs have now. But Rich Hill and Will Ohman? That's another story.

I mentioned Jeff Conine as a likely target of Hendry in a previous post, but that was before I read the article in the Sun-Times by Toni Ginnetti where Toni mentioned both Jeff Conine and Kevin Millar as potential Cub righht-handed hitting 1B targets. And upon further review, Millar sounds even more likely to me than Conine.

Jim Hendry was a special assistant to GM Dave Dombrowski in Florida way back in 1993 when the Marlins signed Kevin Millar, and so I would bet Hendry would have more of a knee-jerk interest in Millar than he would in Conine. Also, Millar is five years younger than Conine, and is only signed through 2006, while Conine is signed through 2006, but with a mutual option in 2007 that can become a player option with 450 PA in 2006.

So everything I said in post #85 about Jeff Conine, make that about Kevin Millar instead. I believe Hendry will likely try to acquire Millar, offering the Orioles one or two players not presently on the Cubs 40-man roster (as with Conine, Millar is a Type XX FA with an automatic "no trade" until June 15th, but even if he waives the "no trade," the Orioles cannot trade him for a player making in excess of $50,000 or cash in excess of $50,000 before June 15th).

It's pretty obvious that Hendry likes doing business with the Orioles, what with the Sosa trade prior to the 2005 season, and then the Corey Patterson trade this past off-season. So it would make sense that he would go back to the Orioles when looking for a right-handed hitting 1B.

Again, I want Tony Clark. What I am saying is that I believe Hendry probably isn't interested in Clark because of the price he would have to pay to get him, and so he will instead get Millar (or possibly Conine) from BAL instead.

Ryno & Andrew --

I might agree with the pitch count/bullpen use argument if it weren't Guzman/Hill he would be replacing. In either scenario, we're looking at 5-6 innings, so it's a wash.

Andrew, your note about "MLB batters" is exactly my point. He's going to have to adjust to major league hitters no matter when he comes back, and by all accounts there's no way to simulate that -- not in towel drills, not in simulated games, not in minor league games. He just has to do it.

And I think if a guy is pitching in a "live" game, he's at full speed whether it's a minor league game or a major league game. I don't see a meaningful injury risk difference either way.

And what do we think of Kevin Millar? I recall him being pretty sweet with the Red Sox champsionship team, but not that great since. Can he still hit? Can he still hit for power?

im still suprised no one's mentioning hinske. heheh...

unfortunately i'm serious...he's got no where to go at 1st/DH. theyre desperate enough to play him in RF this year, but alex rios is pushing him out of that temp role. i'm not a fan, myself.

CRUNCH: I think whoever Hendry gets, it will be a right-handed hitter or at least a switch-hitter. I just can't see the Cubs acquiring another left-handed bat right now.

I see your point, 433. I suppose it just seems to make conventional sense that it is harder to go from bullpen sessions to MLB starts than it is to go from bullpen sessions to sim games to rehab starts to MLB starts.

Andrew -- I'm sure that's right, but is that worth having him miss 2-3 more starts in favor of Guzman/Hill? I just don't think so.

yeah...i just hope the panic trade doesnt happen. i dont wanna see tallent walk for some washup or second rate bench.

there's all kinds of small stuff at hand, especially with it being so early and the GMs have barely had time to play with the new toys theyve assembled.

i just dont wanna see some restovich clone with better D come over in a tallent trade that would have had hendry run out of town if this was a face value trade (discounting the need after the d.lee issue).

i just dont wanna see some restovich clone

I'd agree, except that it's Restovich we're talking about, and Dusty seemingly has no interest in letting him do anything more than pinch-hitting. I don't know, maybe a Kevin Millar type would be better if he could platoon with Jones in right against lefties and take over first against righties with Walker moving back to 2nd.

but is that worth having him miss 2-3 more starts in favor of Guzman/Hill? I just don't think so.

Hmm, yeah. I suppose I agree. Assuming Wood is "healthy", he should be able to go at least as long as Guzman or Hill are going thus far. I'd argue the Cubs must have some good reason for doing what they do, but seeing as it is the Cubs....no, I won't argue that.

Millar, Conine headed to the Cubs?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5568104

how about this trade idea:

cubs get

Kevin Millar

O's get

Nate Spears
Carlos Perez

That sure would be some irony

Millar, Conine headed to the Cubs?

It's nice that Rosenthal gets paid to make-up trade scenarios just like we do. Good gig.

His point about Clark though is good; the Cubs would prefer a guy to fill-in at 1B that could eventually fill in the outfield when Lee comes back, which Clark cannot.

His point about Clark though is good; the Cubs would prefer a guy to fill-in at 1B that could eventually fill in the outfield when Lee comes back, which Clark cannot.

We need to make sure that whomever we get makes enough money to justify making Jacque Jones a platoon RFer.

We need to make sure that whomever we get makes enough money to justify making Jacque Jones a platoon RFer.

I assume you mean the platoon RFer makes relatively little money so we don't spend an exorbitant amount on RF. I don't know if I agree. I'd rather have the right player at a slightly higher cost than the right cost with a player that doesn't fit well.

I think Christian's analogy of Trot Nixon and Jacque Jones is a good one. If Jones could approach numbers Nixon's numbers in a purely platoon role, I think he'd definitely be worth his salary.

I think AaronB was making a joke...I think.

Well if the Cubs are going to limit themselves to that scenerio of a 1b man and then he has to play OF then we are screwed. The sure narrows down the available options and talent by a large margin.

Millar can "play" OF but that is about it. I dont know why Hendry is not trying to target Hillenbrand who is currently platooning at 1b/dh for Toronto. Their rotation isnt good past Halladay/Burnett/Chacin and their only backup MI is John Mcdonald. I think we could get him for Jwill and Theriot. He can also play 3b when Ram goes down with his annual muscle tear/pull and could probably "play" OF as good as the Orioles crap.

I was making a joke. In reference to posts 56-59

"It's nice that Rosenthal gets paid to make-up trade scenarios just like we do. Good gig."

Considering both players were talking about it and specifically about Conine...doesn't really seem like it is made-up...I think it seems like one of the more logical rumors out there as both teams could gain from it.

No. You just DON'T platoon a player. Sorry. It doesn't just happen that way. Trot Nixon is a long time Red Sock. His role as a platoon partner evolved over time. I'm sure they approached him about it and he agreed to it.

Jones (probably) did not come to Chicago to platoon. He was (probably) told that he was our starting right fielder. So you just don't platoon him out of now where. That's what I'm saying.

If we signed him by saying, hey Jack, we want to you come to Chicago as our left side platoon partner and he then agreed, that's a different story. It's NOT just Dusty being Dusty why Jones is not platooned.

I understand what you are saying. My point is that it needs to be about what is best for the team, not the individual player. Its not like Jack Jones was tangilbly better than any number of guys we could have signed. Burnitz/Encanacion/Preston Wilson/Jack Jones/Corey Patterson are all basically the same player. If Jack is so self centered that he wont admit a painfully obvious weakness, then it was stupid for the cubs to bring him aboard.

Chad: Bullshit.

If the Cubs determine that the team will win more games with JJ in a platoon, then that's the way it's gotta be. The guy is making millions of dollars and he will do what he is told. Are you suggesting that the Cubs should put JJ's feelings or prior understandings above winning games?

Of course you run the risk that he will become a disgruntled jerk, and that risk should be taken into account when the decision is made. But things changed when DLee got injured -- the Cubs need to maximize their offensive potential in every way they can. Therefore, while platooning JJ may not have been on the table a month ago, it is now.

Chad,

Who the hell cares what Jones "agreed to." If it doesn't violate the terms of his contract, then it's AOK.

I also strongly disagree Chad...I don't care what we signed the guy for...he is going to get his money no matter what...if a player is hurting their team they will be benched. You can't just go out and play a guy who you know is going to make outs 9 of 10 times against lefties for 162 games.

The figure that matters is hte $6 Million per year. If we are playing someone just because we told them they would play, and that it continues to perpetually hurt your team...then a whole out of people in the organization don't belong where they are. I think it's reasonable to see what JJ could do against lefties...but 1-18 or what ever it is, along with his lifetime stats show that the game plan is not working...so unless JJ earns his money and figures out how to hit lefties...then he needs to be platooned.

Do we keep parading him out there if he is 3 for 30? 6 for 50? 15 for 100? at some point, even with slight improvement...that is going to cut the legs out from the team.

Aaron. now we are getting somewhere. I would say that one month in is too soon to try to make Jones a platoon player. maybe by June, if his numbers don't improve you can approach him then. But its not just as simple as Dusty looking at him and saying "Sorry dude, you can't hit lefties".

433 and Horatio, what planet do you live on? One, even in my little corner of the world, I don't drastically change someone's job duties. Does you boss do that to you? You do those things slowly, if you care about your employees. And that's just low level peons. Try doing that to a professional athlete who makes millions a year. You wanna piss that guy off? And if you do, what kind of message does that send to your team? And good luck signing free agents in the future. I'm sure they'll all line up to play for you.

RE: Dave in PGH,

PNC Park is truely the cream of the new ballpark crop. I've been to a few Cubs/Pirates games there and would recommend the 7hr drive (or $39/one-way SW flight) to anyone in Chicago looking for an excuse to take a Cubs roadtrip.

Does anyone know how you can actually purchase a ticket to the All-Star GAME ITSELF??? I'm not interested in the festivities surrounding.

I would say that one month in is too soon to try to make Jones a platoon player. maybe by June, if his numbers don't improve you can approach him then.

You are right Chad, one month is too soon to declare someone a platoon player.

But the platoon argument isn't based on one month. It is based on his entire career full demonstrating that he clearly can not hit lefties.

Blue, that doesn't matter. Jones was brought here as the everyday right fielder. You cannot take that away from him yet. If you wanted to base it on his career numbers, they should have signed him as a platoon partner from the get go. They didn't so a move right now would be wrong.

Aaron. now we are getting somewhere. I would say that one month in is too soon to try to make Jones a platoon player. maybe by June, if his numbers don't improve you can approach him then. But its not just as simple as Dusty looking at him and saying "Sorry dude, you can't hit lefties".

Chad I would agree with you if Jack Jones had a track record that showed he could hit lefties. However his track record blatantly screams out that he cant do it. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same behavior over and over and expect different results. Therefore playing Jack Jones against Lefties is by definition " insanity"

Eric,

I haven't been to Pittsburgh yet, but have you been to Pac Bell/SBC/Att&T park? I can't imagine anything being better than that (of any NEW stadiums - Wrigley Uber Allis!)

So, Chad, by your logic, should the Cubs leave Rusch in the starting rotation to avoid pissing him off? My understanding is that he was signed to be in the starting rotation.

Chad, if someone is not performing their job well, they are often reassigned if not fired...you really lost me here. I think anyone on a 25 man roster understands that if they go into an extended slump, they will be sat or moved around...it's part of the game and the sport.

Now if we want to argue about the definition of an extended slump...I think that's an entirely different argument...but you are railing on people who are talking about the general idea of platooning a guy who can't hit lefties.

You are arguing this from a point of respect, versus the quality of the team as a whole...and calling other people wrong and crazy for thinking otherwise...that's just an odd and unconvincing argument in my mind.

I would say that one month in is too soon to try to make Jones a platoon player.

Chad...come on. Jones has never been able to hit lefties.

They didn't so a move right now would be wrong.

how so? Your only justificatin is "because it is wrong." The Cubs need to do what is best for the team, not what is best for Jones. It would be foolish to do otherwise.

PAYING MILLIONS TO THOSE WHO CAN'T HANDLE PRESSURE:

It is apparent within the first 30 days or so of the new baseball season that Aramis Ramirez is not "The Man" without someone in front or in back of him that gets him better pitches to hit.

This guy, who will be a fine DH within the next five years, truly has SOOOO much potential, yet never seems to get it together until the Cubs are 8 or 9 games out of it...Why???

Jacque Jones would do really well on a team that is loaded like the Yankees. No one would give a shit about him as he'd bat 7th, or 8th, and sit against lefties. Here, he plays every day and we boo him for his once a week home run average, and getting picked off at second when a play is right in front of him.

Juan Pierre is battling Furcal for one of the lowest leadoff men avg., and Furcal leads in OBP, last I checked.

Glendon Rusch - well you know his nickname - he comes to camp out of shape, fat, and stunk as much in ST as he did last year - yet he says, "I feel great out there..." His career year was 2004 - this guy is FINISHED yet signed to a nice deal...At least it only took four losses to get him out of the rotation. Maybe Dusty could use HIM to throw BP since they're looking for a lefty simulator. He does that really well!

Jerry Hairston has a decent glove, but can't hit ESPECIALLY in the clutch...

This leaves Matt Murton as our current savior! He is truly remarkable, so far! And makes a small percentage of the above disappointments. I certainly will accept the inevetable errors that Ronny Cedeno makes as I really feel hope for the future that he'll grow into an excellent player and the team will have some long term stability there. '

Michael Barrett is a nice bat, but certainly not a cleanup guy. He still has a difficult time throwing runnes out.

This Cubs team TRULY IS a FOURTH-PLACE TEAM, YA'LL!! I predict that by June first, they'll be 8 or 9 games out of it in the Central. Sorry guys & gals, I pray I'm proven wrong, but this is a broken record since 2003 ended...

"You are arguing this from a point of respect, versus the quality of the team as a whole...and calling other people wrong and crazy for thinking otherwise...that's just an odd and unconvincing argument in my mind."

You act like these players are robots who can be switched on or off and told to do what ever you need them to without them caring. This is not how things work in this world. YES, I'm talking about respect. For you all to ignore how disrespectful it would be to just tell him he's been platooned is not realistic.

And once again, please oh please stop with the 'Jones' history of inability..." They signed him as the everyday guy, it is too early to ask him to platoon.

Having said that, it would not be disrespectful to ask him to sit against a CERTAIN left hander, for example, Randy Johnson or even Andy Pettitte.

"This leaves Matt Murton as our current savior! He is truly remarkable, so far!"

Am I the only one who isn't close to being sold on this guy yet? Sure he has come through several times in the last week, and he has a good attitude...but I'm not seeing the consistancy yet to call him a "Savior" or even "remarkable". I guess I kinda see him in the same light as I do Marshall...not a phenom but getting the necessary job done and better than expectations.

I like Murton's OBP a lot, but his slugging is down close to .100 points from last year.

FWIW - Someone asked about Jesus Yepez. He is supposed to have one of the best pick-off moves in the minors. Picked 2 guys off in the Chiefs last game.

So it's disrespectful now, but it's not distrespectful in a month? Where is the line Chad. Also would you stop talking in terms of "this is the real world"...you are no more in tune with the business and personalities behind baseball then the rest of us are...so just argue your point...and don't try to act as if some secret force called "the real world" makes your opinion more valuable then anyone elses. My "real world" says that when someone doesn't perform their job to satsifaction they are fired, warned or reassigned"...obviously firing is not an option here...but the fact is "the real world" is nothing more than yours and my perception of our own personal viewpoint...so leave that hyperbole crap out and just make your argument based on your ideas, not what you think everyone else thinks.

So back to the argument at hand...at what point do you sit Jones if he is still hitting below .150 against lefties? At what point is it "respectful" to sit a guy who is not doing their job well.

Fourth place team? That's a distortion. Have you checked the standings lately? Do you know how many major league teams would trade records with the Cubs right now? (Answer: almost 3/4 of them.)

The Cubs have the 4th best record in the division, yes. But they also have the 8th best record in MLB, and are on pace to win 91 games.

It's stunning how fans tend to judge the team's success based on the current standings. Of course those results matter, but you have to look at the team's W/L record to judge whether they are playing up to their potential, not just in comparison to the other teams in the division (especially this early in the year).

It's funny -- the 2003 Cubs are looked back on fondly as an overachieving, thrilling bunch. They won 88 games.

The 2004 Cubs are remembered as a tremendously disappointing team of underachievers. They won 89 games.

The Cardinals and Astros controlled those two results, in games totally out of the Cubs control.

Of course it matters where the teams finish in the division. The playoffs are the goal. But it's not outside the realm of possibility to predict that the Cubs will win 91 games and finish third in the division, for example. It happens. But that won't mean they didn't perform up to expectations for gods sake.

This guy, who will be a fine DH within the next five years, truly has SOOOO much potential, yet never seems to get it together until the Cubs are 8 or 9 games out of it...Why???

Have you watched the Cubs before 2006? Hell, are you watching this year. Nothing but big hit after big hit in 2003, had one bad month in 2004, 2005 was a little more up and down and this year pitchers are avoiding him like the plague. He's not seeing any good pitches up there.

Now if you want to question his lack of hustle, go for it. Cause that's downright irratating on his part, no excuse for his jogging like every ball he hits is out of here.

#118 of 135: By chifan3887 (May 3, 2006 04:24 PM)
I dont know why Hendry is not trying to target Hillenbrand who is currently platooning at 1b/dh for Toronto.

CHIFAN3887: Hillenbrand is making $5.8m in 2006, and so I doubt that Hendry would want to commit that much payroll toward a guy who would probably be a starter only until the All-Star break and then can't also play a corner OF spot after D-Lee returns.

If Hendry is not interested in Tony Clark (who is making just a little over $1m) because he can't also play OF, why would he be interested in Shea Hillenbrand (who is making $5.8m) if Hillenbrand can't play OF, either?

Since the Pirates are (apparently) not inclined to trade Craig Wilson, that (unfortunately) leaves just Kevin Millar and Jeff Conine.

Chad, I don't disagree that you do have to deal with egos when deciding to bench or platoon somone.

That said, the greater responsiblity is to make sure the best possible lineup is on the field. Dusty is supposed to be a great players manager, unfortuantly, it at times appears that he is liked by the players because he lets then do whatever they want. If Dusty is as good at managing players as he is supposed to be, then he should be able to make Jones realise that a platoon situation is what will be best for the team.

Great post, BBlue.

While I understand your point 433, after 1 game, the Cubs were on pace to win 162 games...that's why I think trying to predict final records, saying they are on pace for 91 wins is just as distorted as arguments talking about the Cubs being in 4th place. The bottom line, 4 teams aren't going to win 90 games in this division with the unbalanced schedule...so two or probably 3 of the 5 teams are going to finish well below their current pace...I don't see why it's a distortion to think the Cubs will end up in the back 2 of those 5.

On a completely unrelated note, why does ESPN.com insist on listing the Cubs 5th, when our winning percentage is higher then the Brewers?

Eric W: Stubhub has *plenty* of tickets to ASG 2006 here at bee-yoo-tee-full PNC Park! You've just gotta suck it up and pay $530 for a single in the farthest seat in the house (sec301, row Y), from which you can just about spit into the river. Now if you want lower decks or field level, take out a loan, those are going $1,000-$12,000 at present.

The best John Hill and I can do (he tentatively plans to be here in Pittsburgh over the ASG break in his grand-tour-of-MLB-parks this summer) is the Futures Game/celeb softball, which is going to cost me $29 for half a ticket. John *says* he'll pick up the other half in gratitude for crashing on the couch in my basement during his stay here. More as it develops.

BTW Anyone wanting to try Eric's suggestion, ride the El-Orange line out to Midway and get a Southwest airlines round trip direct to Pittsburgh for $39 each way. Cubs are here at PNC Aug 28-29-30 Mon-Tues-Weds [eve-eve-day games] and I'll make the same chauffer offer I'm making to J Hill: ride in from the airport and/or rides around town are on me. And assuming he doesn't trash the basement if he comes in July, the foldout-couch-in-the-basement offer would still stand, if the couch is still standing, that is.

Yeah, I don't think the Cubs' current 91 win pace is an indicator that they are necessarily a 91 win team. It's far too early for that. But I bristle when I see people refer to them as a "4th place team" as if that has any real meaning.

The bottom line is that they have a terrific record and are outperforming expectations in light of the injuries, but that's largely ignored by Cubs fans. I know we have been trained to expect the worst, but for the love of Mike, wait until they start losing games to accuse them of suckage.

just tell Jacque that Darren doesn't think he should play against lefties anymore, we all know he runs the team anyway.

millar/conine are interesting but this team cant wait another 6 weeks to pick up a guy for what may be 20 games at best of starting action at the expense of some kids or worse, a legit/ready pen arm.

I think it's pretty apparent that Dusty doesn't feel like he has any other option right now as is, so it's going to take a trade before any platooning happens I'm guessing.

fair enough 433...I agree refering to us as a "th place team" now is distorting...but I also don't think 14-11 is a "terrific" record either....especially when you think about the fact that they are only 10-10 since the Cardinals sweep and 5-6 since Lee went down.

XM Satellite Radio's "Home Plate" said today that the Cincinnati Reds are in discussion with the Florida Marlins in a proposed trade that would send Dontrelle Willis to the Reds and Edwin Encarnacion to the Marlins. Ryan Freel or Rich Aurila would take Encarnacion's spot at 3rd base...

That said, would you trade Felix Pie for Miguel Cabrerra? That would solve our first base problem AND our right field problem when Lee gets back.

That said, would you trade Felix Pie for Miguel Cabrerra?

Umm, I hope anyone would make that trade, but I'm guessing it's going to take more like Pie, E-Pat, name a pitcher (Hill, Guzman or Marshall), maybe even Murton to get him. And I still would probably make that trade, although without Murton hopefully.

I assume it's going to take a little more than just Edwin Encarnacion to get Willis though, but that would be a great deal for the Reds, get some much needed pitching in there.

Pie for Cabrera? If Hendry pulled that one off I'd give him a free pass on Jacque Jones-type signings for the next 5 years. There's really only 1 position player I'd rather have than Cabrera, and he currently resides just west of the Mississippi.

Also, is anyone watching ESPN right now? Bonds just got nailed in the head with a BP ball. Apparently he was leaning up against the cage, a ball was fouled back, stretched the net, and hit him square in the noggin. I don't like to take pleasure in the misfortunes of others, but for Barry I'll make an exception.

Az Phil,

Thanks for the info on Hillenbrand I thought he got paid half of what he does. I thought he would have been a nice pickup because he could be insurance at 3rd when Dlee comes back and even though he has not played OF he couldnt be worse than Millar defensivly. If its bewteen Millar and Conine I hope he goes with Conine.

Carmen,

If the Reds get Willis they would have to give up Bruce and Bailey along with Encarnion.

Bruce can't be traded until the middle of June.

IENPW,

He could be included as a PTBNL.

Apparently he was leaning up against the cage, a ball was fouled back, stretched the net, and hit him square in the noggin.

Replays showed a white cloudish image next to the net that appeared to be stretching it, it appeared to have Yankee pinstripes on it.

The bigger question if the Twins went trade crazy is would Santana be available?

"I'd have to believe that would be a hearty "NO" no matter what befalls them this year. I think it's more likely that the Cubs combine a few stellar players into a package for Francisco Liriano. How about Pawelek, Rich Hill, and Brian Dopirak?"

Actually that's a whole helluva lot less likely. Liriano actually has better pure stuff than Johan and makes nothing and will be replacing Lohse in the rotation pretty soon...not that Johan is in any danger of being moved anyway. What would the Twins need Dopirak for when they already have a better version of him in J.Morneau? I'm sure the Twins would take virtually any decent prospect package for S.Stewart because Kubel is ready to take a corner OF spot anyway and is reportedly supposed to be called up within the next week or so. Torii Hunter will probably command two top prospects and maybe even one good ML ready CFer because I can't think they'd want Lew Ford taking over in CF.

Anyone notice that Koronka is holding lefties
to a 2-28 clip. We had a loogy who could spell Ohman..but it's a good thing we received Bynum...where would we be without his..his...

i suppose the Cubs powers that be would have noticed that Koronka found a slider somewhere in between his callup last year and this season. Because before this season he had the knock of not being able to get lefties out cause he was all fastball/changeup. But the few highlights I've seen of him this year, it looks like he has a decent enough slider now that he can use against lefties and occasionally to throw righties off of his fastball/change.

I'm not ready to jump on the Koronka bandwagon just yet. Yeah, in hindsight he may be a better option right now than Ohman, but would anybody have thought that he'd be worth a bag of balls after his call-up last season?

J. Pierre cf
R. Cedeno ss
T. Walker 1b
A. Ramirez 3b
M. Murton lf
J. Jones rf
M. Barrett c
N. Perez 2b

*** Whoop Whoop: Irrational Cabrera Trade ALERT ***

N E W S F L A S H

This just in, Cabrera will not be traded. The Marlins have an All-Star caliber player for a salary of $472,000 this year. It would make no sense whatsoever for them to trade Cabrera.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile...

"It is apparent within the first 30 days or so of the new baseball season that Aramis Ramirez is not "The Man" without someone in front or in back of him that gets him better pitches to hit."
----

No, no, no, no.... ask Chad, he's better than DLee. He's an "RBI machine". Lee's not an RBI machine, but Aramis is. A legitimate, loafing, RBI machine.

John, youre shot at me only is evidence of my overall point. Aramis is not hitting well and not getting RBIs. It has nothing to do with anyone getting on in front of him. So thanks.

RYNO, its not his salary this year that bothers them. It's next year's when he'll be ARB eligible. Big difference.

"It has nothing to do with anyone getting on in front of him. So thanks."
----

You, my friend, are a dumbass. So thanks.

A-Ram hit a line drive double in the 3rd... why didn't he get and RBI?
Is he not really an "RBI Machine"?

HEY 433:

If you want to put your money where your mouth is, I'll wager $50 (going to Cubs Care), that on June 1st, this Cubs team will not be higher than 4th place in the Division.

If they're tied - we split...

Let me know, 433. Don't forget, "They're on pace to win 91 games..." with a "...terrific record."

I"m the dumbass? ARam didn't hit a double in the 3rd. He LED OFF the 4th with a double. Why no RBI? He LED OFF!

#161 of 169: By Rob G. (May 3, 2006 07:17 PM)
i suppose the Cubs powers that be would have noticed that Koronka found a slider somewhere in between his callup last year and this season. Because before this season he had the knock of not being able to get lefties out cause he was all fastball/changeup. But the few highlights I've seen of him this year, it looks like he has a decent enough slider now that he can use against lefties and occasionally to throw righties off of his fastball/change.

---

ROB G: John Koronka was throwing a slider in the AFL last year. I think the Cubs knew that he could be a LOOGY in case Ohman struggled in Spring Training (except Ohman looked great), but I believe it was more a matter of the Cubs actually wanting Freddie Bynum and the Rangers (correctly) projecting Koronka as a starter once they could get him stretched out.

The Rangers projecting Koronka as a starter is what really surprised me. Seeing him in the AFL last year and in Spring Training this year, I thought Koronka would be the 2006 Cubs Plan "B" LOOGY in case anything happened to Ohman. But I couldn't see him ever starting again. Boy, was I wrong!

And Koronka IS eligible for the 2006 A. L. Rookie of the Year Award.

BTW, the Cubs still owe the Rangers a PTBNL in the Koronka deal.

E-Man - I think you missed the point of my post. I pointed out that 4th place in this division this year might be pretty damn good, unfortunately, if this keeps up (which it probably won't). If the 4th place team is (was) on pace for 91 wins, that's a seriously good division, at least right now. To imply that 4th place is junk isn't being intellectually honest when that 4th place team also has the 8th best record in baseball.

(My case was made before last night's loss, so I'm using the records we were arguing about at the time.)

Do you really not think 14-11 is a terrific record for a 25 game period? If the Cubs go 14-11 six times, they will be 84-66 with 12 games left to play. I'd take that.

I'll take your bet, but we need to look at the entire season, not June 1. Remember, you said this is a fourth place team.

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