The (Media) Circus Comes To Town

GAME THIRTY-TWO IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (14-17, 5th, 6.5 GB) AT SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS (15-17, 4th, 4.5 GB) Telephone Company Park, 7:15 PM CDT Weather: 56 degrees, clear, Wind Out to RF @ 20 mph TV: WGN, DirecTV 745 Radio: WGN, XM 189
Jason Schmidt, RHP 2-2, 3.77 ERA, 43 IP 33 K, 18 BB, 4 HRRich Hill, LHP 0-1, 11.25 ERA, 4 IP 1 K, 2 BB, 2 HR
*Juan Pierre, CF Ronny Cedeno, SS *Todd Walker, 1B Aramis Ramirez, 3B Michael Barrett, C *Jacque Jones, RF Matt Murton, LF #Neifi Perez, 2B *Rich Hill, P*Randy Winn, RF #Omar Vizquel, SS *Lance Niekro, 1B *Satan, LF Pedro Feliz, 3B *Steve Finley, CF Mike Matheny, C #Jose Vizcaino, 2B Jason Schmidt, P

Cubs vs. Schmidt: Neifi Perez: 6-20 300/391/450 1 HR, 3 BB, 2 K Michael Barrett: 4-20 200/200/350 1 HR, 0 BB, 2 K Aramis Ramirez: 5-18 278/350/611 1 HR, 3 2B, 1 BB, 1 K Juan Pierre: 5-17 294/333/412 1BB, 3 K John Mabry: 1-16 063/063/063 0 BB, 8 K Todd Walker: 4-14 286/412/286 3 BB, 1 K &nbsp&nbsp&nbspGiants vs. Hill:

The rematch we've all been waiting for, who could forget the epic duel between Hill and Schmidt last year on July 25th. In his first major league start, Hill labored through 5 innings, but held the Giants to merely two runs while striking out five. The veteran Schmidt though was up to the task, hurling seven strong innings, his only blemish - a Michael Barrett dinger. The Cubs offense persisted though, scratching a run off of Boo-Bird Hawkins in the eight, and then finally pushing through in the ninth off Tyler Walker. Cedeno leads off with a single, was moved over on a sacrifice bunt by Hairston, a sharp single to right by Todd Walker advanced Cedeno to third and that was followed up by the easiest decision ever made in baseball, an intentional walk to Derrek Lee. That set the stage for the one and only Jeromy Burnitz, who promptly flied out to centerfield, deep enough for the young Cedeno to scamper home with the winning run. 3-2, Cubs Win, Cubs Win!!!! Why did I write just write in such great detail about a meaningless game last July? Because it's a lot more exciting than the drivel the Cubs have produced over the last week or so. One other quick note from the game last year, Omar Vizquel stole 3 bases in the game, 2 off the Hill/Barrett combo that we'll see tonight. With Randy Winn now on the team, Hill's inability to hold runners and Barrett's well-known throwing deficiencies, I expect a track meet out there. Of course we stole five bases off Piazza over the weekend and scored one run off a Ramirez home run, so it probably won't matter much. The Cubs seven game losing streak though will take a backseat (at least on a national level) to the Barry Bonds pursuit of Babe's home run total. A mere two home runs from becoming the second greatest home run hitter of all-time, it will be up to the Cubs pitching staff to try and stave off the celebration until a later date. With Alou out at least 2 weeks (and likely more), I don't see any good reason to pitch to Mr. Bonds with anybody on base. Normally I abhor the "Walk Bonds" approach, because telling your pitchers that you don't think they're good enough to get Bonds out isn't the way to inspire future confidence when they do need to get a good hitter out. But in this case, I'd rather not watch that buffoon celebrate while I'm trying to watch the game. He may possibly be the greatest baseball player ever and I could care less, chemically enhanced or not, he's a jerk, a creep, and I hope he never even sniffs Aaron's record. If I was a major league pitcher, if I ever reached a three ball count on him, I'd just throw at his armguard every single time. Heck with George Mitchell's steroid witchhunt, go find out how much his home run rate went up once he started setting up half an inch off the plate with 2 feet of body armor covering his "tender" elbow. (On a sidenote, he is a free agent next year, man we could use a bat like that, Any takers? Anyone?........kidding) The Cubs are in desperate need of some offense, some defense, some kind of spark, a bench-clearing brawl, who knows. I suggest drilling Bonds each time, see what happens. Win a freakin' game!!!
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Comments

Any takers? Anyone?ÖÖ..kidding

Why are you kidding? I would take him.

i am so tired of this shit.

i second that.

I woudl take him in a heartbeat too. Oh yeah and that Alou guy who hendry didn't want. His stats the past 2 years have sucked (sarcasm).

why can't we have a "fun" team? you know, one that you root for, and is young and trying, and, yes, making some mistakes, but, like a puppy, you forgive their transgressions because you know they are trying and will get better. but these guys, jeez, they just suck.

winds only blowing 20mph out to right, what a lousy day for Bonds to try and break pass Ruth. :)

yeah Manny, complain about Hendry going after injury-prone players, then complain about Hendry not going after Alou. Pick a side, Mariotti!!!

i mean you just pick up their shit and complain. there is no joy in mudville.

try and pass Ruth I meant in post #6

Rob G.:
"yeah Manny, complain about Hendry going after injury-prone players, then complain about Hendry not going after Alou."

How was he injury prone???

The past 6 years he has averaged playing in over 137 games per season. For someone with his age and great production I would take in a heartbeat. I know you might want to deflect any critism away from hendry, but the fact is he made a mistake not keeping Alou. PERIOD!!!

well PERIOD!!! Holy s****!!! I suppose there's no point in even attempting a retort. I mean PERIOD!!!, must make it true.

Alou has played 14 major league seasons (I'm starting in 1992), he's played less than 150 games 9 of those seasons (excluding 1994). I am including this year cause he's already on the DL for at least 2 weeks if not longer. A 38 year old with a huge injury history is a pretty poor risk, especially on a team with enough injury issues. Of course there were contract and money issues that went into the decision as well. He's also a bad baserunner and a marginal defender (you know the anti-fundamental player you keep telling Hendry to go get more of).

Anyone don't really care if you really thought he should have kept Alou, but since you enjoy piling on Hendry for continuing to go after injury prone players, it's just another example of you talking out of both sides of your mouth.

"there is no joy in mudville"

Actually there is joy in "Mudville".... I was at the Toledo Mudhens game tonight and who was catching for the Norfolk Tides?

Sandy Martinez! Ya he sucks, but he will always carry a special place in my heart for catching the 20 K game in '98.

I had actually forgotten all about the guy, and got pretty excited. I blamed it on my love for the old Kerry Wood, my wife blamed it on the beer.

Either way, it was a good time.

At 39 years old, Bonds' OBP was .609. I still can't believe that's real. When most players his age are thinking about managing a AA team somewhere, he was busy getting intentionally walked 120 times.

I agree with you, Rob. With his gigantic elbow literally over the plate, he still 'only' got hit 9 times in his last full season, and has never been hit more than 9 times. Compare that to Fernando Vina, another platemonger, who got hit 28 times one year (compared to 36 walks).

If you're going to walk him, hit him-- and make sure it's in the ribs, not that hockey-goalie elbow pad he has. Make him think twice before hoarding the plate again. If the Giants look to retaliate by hitting one of our star hitters, the joke is on them -- we don't have any!

there is a difference in re-signing alou and replacing alou. wisely, hendry did not re-sign. stupidly, hendry did not replace.

for what it's worth.

roids...no roids...whatever...the man is f'n awesome at the plate.

off the field, pre game, post game, in the dugout, in the clubhouse...whatever...at the plate he is just simply awesome.

Manny, you're NOT a dipshit (sarcasm).

don't disagree with any of that crunch, I can appreciate his game, doesn't mean I root for him

"If you're going to walk him, hit him-- and make sure it's in the ribs, not that hockey-goalie elbow pad he has."

I'm sitting here smiling as I imagine Bob Gibson or Ferguson Jenkins pitching to this guy. Or Whitey Ford, or Charlie Root, Three-Finger Brown, or ... oh, anyone from the old days who had a mean fastball and an attitude. Bonds would be picking dirt or horsehide out of his teeth.

Wow, that Pujols guy is something else...

totally...i dont root for bonds either, but i find it hard to look away when he's at the plate.

even if he's chocked full of roids to the point of overflowing what he's done at the plate the past few years is probally something we'll never see in our lifetime again.

Rob G.-
Just admit Hendry screwed up and stop trying to attack me and make it about me. Alou would of been 1200 times better than the LF crap last year or JJ this year.

Dc:
"there is a difference in re-signing alou and replacing alou. wisely, hendry did not re-sign. stupidly, hendry did not replace."

maybe so and if hendry did go out and actually get a real corner OF I wouldn't complain, but we had a very productive one and Hendry let him go. So when people say "not hendry's fault as there was nobody to get", that excuse doesn't hold water.

BJS:
"Manny, you're NOT a dipshit"

Thanks man, I love you too...

Manny, Hendry probably would've kept him around if your boyfriend Dudsy was half the player's manager he's supposed to be. Dudsy ran such a smooth clubhouse in 2004 (sarcasm). Baker's no-account ass is why Hendry purged the clubhouse. He was getting rid of the distractions that the no-account, shit-for-brains Baker couldn't control and didn't want to take any responsibility for. PERIOD!!!

BJS-
Thanks for your deep intellectual thoughts on the matter. (sarcasm)

Was There Last Year

- for Rich Hill's debut. I was so excited for what I thought was a can't miss prospect.I don't feel that way now. Rich even showed some terrible base running skills and COULD HAVE scored from 3rd. I did enjoy booing a little bit of LaTroy Hawkins, and he truly stunk up the joint and didn't last an inning on his "return" to Wrigley. I still would just like to blow up this team save for Cedeno, DLee and Murton. Trade ARAM to an AL team where he wouldn't need to run as a DH. Fire Dusty, Gene Clines, and Sarge. And Spier too. JUST CLEAN HOUSE. No Neifi. No HAirston. No TWalk. Suck for a couple of years, yet build something up that has energy and is hungry to win - and of course plays fundamental baseball.

Was There Last Year

- for Rich Hill's debut. I was so excited for what I thought was a can't miss prospect.I don't feel that way now. Rich even showed some terrible base running skills and COULD HAVE scored from 3rd. I did enjoy booing a little bit of LaTroy Hawkins, and he truly stunk up the joint and didn't last an inning on his "return" to Wrigley. I still would just like to blow up this team save for Cedeno, DLee and Murton. Trade ARAM to an AL team where he wouldn't need to run as a DH. Fire Dusty, Gene Clines, and Sarge. And Spier too. JUST CLEAN HOUSE. No Neifi. No HAirston. No TWalk. Suck for a couple of years, yet build something up that has energy and is hungry to win - and of course plays fundamental baseball.

SORRY for the DOUBLE POST! PLEASE EXCUSE ME!!

E

good response, manny. I figured you wouldn't have any comeback for the truth about your boyfriend.

Hendry sucks, stop attacking Manny.

Hendry sucks.
Stop attacking Manny.

Hendry sucks?
Stop attacking, Manny.

Hendry sucks.
Stop! Attacking Manny!

fun with punctuation.

Just admit Hendry screwed up and stop trying to attack me and make it about me

Huh? Attack? All I did was call out your double speak, stop playing the victim.

Hendry screwed up by waiting too long to move Sosa. He didn't pick up Alou's extension cause he wasn't sure if he was or could move Sosa and there was a budget issue. By the time the dust settled, everyone was gone. It's totally on him, I agree. I probably would have cut bait with Alou to at the time, but would have moved a lot quicker on the Sosa deal. Hopefully find someone else OR worst case scenario, resign Alou at a discounted rate (remember his option was quite high)

Hendry does suck...
Dusty sucks much more and is a bigger problem than Hendry...
Manny refuses to see the reality that Dusty is a piss poor manager...

Manny deserves to be called out for being a pud and for constantly coping an attitude like he did with Rob.

thanks anyway, Fred

"Paranoid thinking and behavior are hallmarks of the form of schizophrenia called "paranoid schizophrenia." Individuals with paranoid schizophrenia commonly have extremely bizarre delusions or hallucinations, almost always on a specific theme. Sometimes they hear voices that others cannot hear or believe that their thoughts are being controlled or broadcast aloud. Also, their performance at home and on the job deteriorates, often with a much diminished degree of emotional expressiveness."

"In contrast, people with relatively milder paranoid disorders may have such symptoms as delusions of persecution or delusional jealousy, but not the prominent hallucinations or impossible, bizarre delusions of paranoid schizophrenia. Those with milder paranoid disorders are customarily able to work, and their emotional expression and behavior are appropriate to their delusional belief. Apart from their delusions, their thinking remains clear and orderly. On the other hand, those with paranoid schizophrenia are often intellectually disorganized and confused."

Manny, which one are you?

Rob G.:
"It's totally on him (hendry), I agree."

There you go...Thanks!!!

Rob G.:
"stop playing the victim."

Ironic consdering the previous posts, huh?

The pitcher for the Padres just had a better at-bat than any Cub over the last 2 weeks.

settle guys, it's one thing to argue about baseball, another to go after a guy personally. Relax!

Hill is getting pounded, but of course he's doing it in San Fran. I'll take Guzman over this, thank you.

Pierre just took away #714. That's gonna be the play that rights this ship. Just watch.

Okay, who am I kidding. But still, if Pierre gets on this inning, it could be just what the (voodoo) doctor ordered.

Hey, where's Carrie Muskat's mailbag this week? She must be sifting through all the hatemail, or trying to come up with more snide remarks to fans with legitimate questions.

hahaha

Who here can honestly say that this team wouldn't have been better off if Dusty had been fired the day after the 2004 season. He let a team lose focus the last week of a season when they had a 1.5 game wild card lead. The team underachieved all year and shouldn't have even let Houston back in the race. They were basket cases and the clubhouse was basically an asylum.

Furthermore there is no way a manager could have done LESS with the 2005 and 2006 teams than Dusty. And even if you disagree with that -- is he doing a 4 million dollar a year job with this team?

He basically admitted in the spring training press that he was distracted last year and took no responsibility for it.

As far as this year, name another team could lose one player and go into this kind of slide. And yes manny Hendry takes some of that responsibility (I have been terribly disappointed with him the last two years) but Dusty is the cancer that got the whole thing going. And his job is to handle adversity and he makes it exponentiallly more severe instead. Shame on Hendry for keeping Dusty after 2004 - shame on Dusty for his performance the last 2.2 years.

And shame on Crunch for whatever bullshit he is about to say.

Just kidding crunch . . . I just know you are going to disagree with me of course.

jacos-
You win $5 virtual bucks...

Cedeno had 4 Ab's tonight and saw a atotal of 11 pitches (2.75 pitchers per PA)

Neifi had 3 AB's tongith and saw a total of 8 pitches (2.67 pitchers per PA)

I owe you a beer when you go to a game with me in my seasons....

yeah...this is obviously the manager's fault.

god knows these players aren't to blame...that would be too hard to accept, huh?

sorry, but this is NOT a manager's fault.

what lineup would you march out there? what difference would it make? isn't this as close to optimal as it gets? whining about a 2nd basemen when the whole lot are no-power sub-.300ob% performers would not be a good place to start.

insted of focusing on results of players who are failing...let's treat them like 10 year olds and blame the lineup jockey insted of the grown adults who are put in their proper roles. maybe if dusty says he'll take them out to chucky cheese if they win will get them going...maybe give them some tokens to play skee-ball.

yes, you are watching professional ballplayers fail...you are not watching a manager turn professional ballplayers into crap by mismanaging them.

how ya like dem apples? they're fresh off the f'n tree...eat up and digest that. sorry if its hard to swallow.

Only the Cubs advance scouting staff can prepare the pitching staff for a guy who is 1 for 25 from the right side .... he goes 3 for 5 tonight. This crap has to start at the top. I'm sick and tired of excuses. The scouting staff doesn't prepare the team for success.

I think my observations vs. the Cardinals earlier were correct....I thought...why is it when the Cubs hit a ground ball, it turns into a double play...and the Cardinals hit one, it goes through somewhere where nobody is playing? The answer: poor coaching/scouting and preparation. Other teams have a plan and execute...the Cubs go up and hack away.

If I were made manager...and I don't think I would do any better than Baker...I'd institute rule 1....If you swing at the first pitch and make an out...$5,000 fine. If you hit (on the first pitch) into a double play....$20,000 fine.

2. Jacques "choke" Jones would become the most expensive player at Iowa ever.

3. Wood is coming back tomorrow. May 17th may be too late. His contract is up this year. My guess is he'll have a great year.

4. Nefi and Jerry Jr. aren't going to play anymore....Walker at 2nd...or the new guy..and Mabry (or Walker) at 1st.

This is rediculous...buy a share in the Tribune company and demand results.

BOYCOTT Wrigley...

Boo mercilessly when you are there....and only go if the tickets are a comp.

Drink at the bars in Wriglyville...and don't buy anything inside Wrigley field.

A message needs to be sent that the product is unacceptable.

Herzog once said something like...give me 9 guys in the last year of their contract and I'll manage a winner.......

The Cubs have scored ELEVEN runs the last TEN games. Somebody ought to get fired...

Crunch,

Dusty is not motivating this team. End of story.

No lineup change. No starting pitching. This team is playing like zombies.

No fire
No spark
No life

DOA

its painful to watch.

its even more painful to accept what you're seeing while watching it.

the last win was a 2-1 win over pitt (may 1st)...the last time the team scored more than 3 runs in a game was april 28th (6 vs. mil)...

the only guys hitting worth a damn during that time period was j.jones and murton hitting his singles...aram with his 2 homers in the 2 previous games...

sigh...

Dusty is the worst manager in baseball and I and others have been telling that to you for 3 years. He will never win. No WS under Dusty. That's a promise. Why? He's nuts, he's stupid and he thinks he is incredible. Bad combination.

Crunch please explain to me why Dusty is a good manager? On a daily basis several of us school your ass on details and you just ignore the facts (the double switches, freaky lineups, pitching rhythms, bullshit press conferences, pompousness in the face of TOTAL failure) and your response is what?

Cubs are doing great. Manager is great. CLubhouse is great. Latest callup Great. Blahblah blah.

You either enjoy countering everybody and the truth itself OR you are a bully planted here by «ubs' to try and counter bad PR.

Either way your ideas are absurd. Enjoy your losing team. They are just what you order and constantly defend. So go get'em Crunchie.

98 years and counting.

As I said in week two and thee when the Cubs were soaring, wach Dusty fall apart. Watch the magic. Well you ain't seen nothing yet. Dusty Baker is bad at his job and emotionaly unstable. The fireworks are just starting.

Guy still resents stone and sammy and ivy league girl and chicago and the press. For $4 million a year you think he'd hire someone to tell him how to make a substitution, light a fire under a team, and hold a press conference. Maybe even say ONCE "I blew it." Never has though . . .

Eh, not including today the pitcher's ERA this month was like 4.20, not great but it's really, really hard to blame them.

As much as the Cubs have sucked the last couple of weeks or so, it's hard to put all of the blame on Dusty. The 25-man roster we have right now is flat out terrible. Dusty isn't helping, but Dusty's negative impact is negligible at this point. This team just sucks and no manager can change that.

Manny...who was talking about triples on the broadcast?

It looks like someone on that production team reads Hardball Times.

sj...where did i say dust was a good manager?

are you watching these games?

are you watching these professionals?

is dusty really what you gotta bitch about watching this?

are you for f'n real? dusty? what? HUH?

i see players in their proper roles failing...you wanna bitch about a guy who doesnt throw a ball or swing a bat.

that's a cop out where i come from. these are not children out there.

im not a cubs PR person...what's going now has NOTHING to do with the past 98 years...

and this shit:

"Either way your ideas are absurd. Enjoy your losing team. They are just what you order and constantly defend. So go get'em Crunchie"

*** you have no idea what you are talking about and even less about what i am talking about if you can even type that crap and think it even remotely applies to me or my statements. ***

sorry if its easier for you to blame 1 person rather than keeping track of 25+ other people.

and i dont counter everyone's post...but to watch this past few weeks and have people STILL bitch about a manager is beyond obsurd.

lemmie get this straight so you can understand it...

I SEE PLAYERS...IN THEIR PROPER ROLES...GOING OUT THERE...AND FUCKING UP.

that clear? seems crystal clear to me.

now you can go on and on about steve stone and girls and other crap that has nothing at all to do with what's on the field if it makes you feel better, but those are grown men out there creating their own fate.

I think some of the Dusty apologists are asking the wrong question. Rather than asking "Would any manager do better?"- we should be asking "Is it worth paying a manager $4 million a year if he can do NO BETTER than Joe Shmo?"

Granted, you can't pin it all on Dusty. But Dusty definitely deserves some of the blame. So does Hendry, Tribco, McFail, and of course, the players. But Tribco ain't selling the Cubs any time soon; Hendry just got an extension, McFail is the luckiest sob on earth, and you can't fire all 25 players. So you start in the highest leadership position that YOU CAN DO SOMETHING about. And that position is Dusty and the whole staff. That doesn't mean you stop there, but you START there. It's important to get some new perspectives and new approaches to the players.

The point is NOT that Dusty is causing this current drought. He is NOT fully responsible for this. No way. BUT he is a big reason why this organization is in disarray. Hendry is a fool for backing him and has not helped the team much the last two years. But Dusty cancer is a powerful sickness and his scapegoating attitude in 2004 and 2005 were dispicable and coupled with Hedry's reactive purgation of talent and personalities led to what Baseball America call MLB's most dysfunctional organization. Look at the big picture for f%cks sake. The standard you are holding Dusty to is "well he is not responsible for one of the worst offensive droughts in MLB history. Hell THAT is a losing attitude. Can we please hold a manager to a higher standard than "one out of every 3 games he doesn't jsut plain hurt the team's chances to win". 4 million dollars a year and in 2004 possibly the most Cubs talent of my lifetime. The standards need to be MUCH higher. Wake p Cubs fans. Do you want to win someday?

Super,

Dusty is not a bad manager. He's not the right guy for this team but he's not a bad manger. The only people who don't like him are people OUTSIDE of professional baseball.

And before anyone says that Dusty is a big reason that a lot of the free agents came to the Cubs (because he's a player's manager), save it. Alou came in 2002; Juan Pierre has seen better days; Jacques Jones just plain sucks; Todd Walker is a nice fit at best; same with Michael Barrett; Maddux wanted the highest paycheck; and Howry and Eyre are merely set up men.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to say it's ALL Dusty's fault. But there is a stockpile of reasons as to why Dusty could and should not be given a new contract. Don't even have to fire him this year. Just don't extend his contract.

Crunch you are just plain wrong. About everything.

"Crunch you are just plain wrong. About everything."

awww...poor poor baby. evidently you're the one who needs TLC and your hand held to make it through this slump.

super...the past weeks you've been watching these games and dusty is what you find the time to go on a rant about?

losing attitude? steve stone? ivy girls? the big picture? 4 million dollar manager?

i dont care if jesus christ is managing the club...you give him this club/roster and you're not gonna find very much variation at all with the lineup...definately not any impact moves.

the right players have been playing almost every game in almost all the right places and THEY didn't cash in their chance.

you seem to think they need their hands held to produce and the clubhouse is in chaotic anarchy.

its hard to accept players in a slump not cashing in their chances, but we're knee deep in it.

Dave:
"Manny...who was talking about triples on the broadcast?"

Kasper said something about Finley being #1 active in triples (when he hit the triple). Then I looked up the list to see if he was right. He was... To note, Bonds was #4 active and Neifi was #10 active in triples.

Nazey,
if we have to wait another 5 months to have Dusty fired...it's going to be a long summer.

btw...im not wrong about everything.

and ya know what...unlike you i can accept and respond publically when i am.

he only people who don't like him are people OUTSIDE of professional baseball.

I don't think the Giants organization liked him much either at the end there.

Chad,

we've been through this before. First of all I don't care what other people say in baseball or out. I know stupid management when I see it. It is obvious. Throwing Hawkins out there when he blew 9 of 11 one run save opportunities. Stupid. Batting Neifi #2 Stupid. Paying attention to a frickin' TV Color man with a week left in a playoff run. Stupid. Forgetting to report a double switch with an umpire in 2004 and giving the team an out. Stupid. Sitting Murton until everyone on the planet knew he was a hitter. Stupid. pinch hitting Neifi and Macias in late inning situations. Stupid. Replacing Jaque Jones in late innings with a worse defender. Stupid. Removing two of your best hitters whe the team was struggling for runs. Stupid (and that could have been te da the Cubs cme out of the funk. Instead they had NO CHANCE, this is how Dusty continues negative trends with his lineup).Batting Korey number one. Stupid. having pitchers that only care about strikeouts and hitters taht won't walk. Being too reliant on the HR. STupid. And yes he has some control over these things. His teams in Chicago have consistantly been HR heavy and BB lighht. And pitchers throw too many pitches trying to get K's. Stupid. It is a trend. Stupid Stupid Stupid. Bad manager.

Also you have no proof that ALL people in baseball think he is great and only peple outside MLB think he is bad. It's not true. Players nad front office personell wouldn't go on record that way anyways.

All of that said. I think you are somewhat right that Dusty is the wrong guy here. There might be a team that he would excel under and not look so stupoid. But it ain't in Chicago. And for the record this guy doesn't like Chicago fans at all. Only Cubs' fans woudl defend a guy who is bad at his job AND doesn't even like us! LOL.

Nazey:
"I don't think anyone is stupid enough to say it's ALL Dusty's fault. But there is a stockpile of reasons as to why Dusty could and should not be given a new contract. Don't even have to fire him this year. Just don't extend his contract."

Replace the word Dusty with Hendry and I think that would fit nicely...But the Cubs fucked that one up with the extenstion.

wrong again crunch. Man you are consistant.

This is the worst $100 million payroll team I've ever seen. That ain't got shit to do with the manager. Allow me to pull out a little Rick Pitino:

Connie Mack ain't walking through that door fans. Sparky Anderson ain't walking through that door and Casey Stengel ain't walking through that door.

Even if they were, they wouldn't win. I don't know who you want to manage this team. LaRussa? Cox? Pinella? Torre? All 4 of them are in the 25 top in wins all time. They couldn't do shit with this team. We can't hit. We can't field. We can't throw. Half of the team can't pitch.

Don't blame the coaches for having shitty players.

And that's coming from a Dusty hater.

sj...you really cant stand me and my input.

you can't stand being wrong...and you sure as hell can't stand someone with a differing opinion from you.

you even have to make personal attacks on me and make crap up just to make your views on me fit.

and yes...your statement:

"Crunch you are just plain wrong. About everything."

...is childish, stupid, unrelated to a postive conversation, and quite honestly...a copout so you don't have to deal with reality.

you are what is known as a crybaby...now take your toys and get outta my sandbox before you piss all over it.

Wes, is it possible that we have a bad roster AND a bad manager and THAT is why we have practically set a record for futility these past couple of weeks?

Being too reliant on the HR.

Man, what I'd do for some home runs right now.

Crunch you are hilarious.

Oh . . . and quite incorrect.

troll.

Rob. Correct me if I am wrong but most of our runs the past few games have been from HR's. No?

in cubs related news (aka, non crunch/superj related news)...

i wonder what's up with walker.

aside from his slump, that is.

he's usually chatty cathy with anyone who has a mic, pen, or 10 minutes to spare.

this year he's been kinda subdued. i'd like to hear his take on the past couple weeks.

The only people who don't like him are people OUTSIDE of professional baseball.

Baseball is still a network of good ole' boys and well they need to embrace better efficiency which an open capital market needs and sabermetrics can bring.

I know I won't be the first one to say this, fire Hendry; bring in Paul Depodesta, and you can all flame the heck out of me. I am a stathead.

/rant on Cubs not being A's/Jays/Sox, but I have to be a Cub fan.

Calm down everyone, the Cubs are going to make a second half run.

They'll make the playoffs and maybe even win the NLCS.

This team is THAT good.

Once we get healthy, Jones shows us what his real potential is, Murton and Cedeno have their breakout seasons, Walker's defense shows much improvement, Pierre comes alive to hit over .300, and Dusty gets that double switch down, the Cubs are a lock for the postseason. Speaking of which, I'm on the verge of winning the lottery, a pulitzer, an oscar, and a latin grammy.

I can't wait!!

hahahahah

I would be fine with firing HEndry -- I just think that it would be hard to do with the new contract. Youthful fiery leadership (or any kind of leadership on the field) seems the easiest factor to address. Maybe purge our longterm bullpen dudes to the yanks and package pierre or JJ with Eyre or Howry. That is one way to get rid of these bum outfielders.

Rob. Correct me if I am wrong but most of our runs the past few games have been from HR's. No?

The Cubs are 2nd to last in the NL in home runs, 2nd to last in slugging, you don't win when it takes 4 hits to get a run across. Of course the Padres are the worst in home runs and slugging, but their little hot streak isn't going to last very long. There's nothing wrong with home runs. Now home runs without people on-base, that's another story.

Chad's right by the way. I've talked to all of the people inside baseball, and they all LOVE Dusty.

And it's a lusty love at that.

Funny thing is, if they were to miraculously fire Dusty during the season, look at the last time they did that: they fired Don Baylor, interimmed Bruce Kimm, then replaced him with DUSTY! As someone posted earlier, I would love to see them make some heads roll and just go young, but it's the frickin' Cubs that would control that. So 2007/08 would be any better? The only reason Dusty hasn't been fired yet is that they are probably tired of paying guys mega millions to leave the team (Sosa, Borowski, Patterson, etc.). If Dusty was making $1M or so, it might be easier for the tightass Tribco to justify.

God this is fucking hopeless- no matter how you look at it. Do we really think it's gonna happen in our lifetimes? I vote no.

Yeah I am in complete agreement with you Rob. I was mostly talking about the last few years. But I do find it interesting that we don't score even NOW without the HR. Barrett, Aram's 2 HR etc. Just since we don't hit the HR much now we also don't score at all now.

no matter what your stance on dusty happens to be, it doesn't take a genius to realize that when a team has underperformed for 2+ years, the manager is the first to go. Fair or not, it's just how baseball works. If this streak lasts till Friday, expect a lot of chatter about Baker getting fired. If we hear the "vote of confidence" speech from Hendry, you know it's over for him.

Supperjimmer-
Any manager is going to have a hard times succeding here as the front office is not very good.

Dusty is PARTLY to blame with the Cubs not making the playoffs the last two years and most likely this year (you will not get an argument from me about that), but I think Hendry is MUCH more liable. Remember there is ONE MAN responsible for having Dusty the manager.....HENDRY!!! If you think Baker is the cancer, well hendry is the doctor to cure the cancer, but hasn't done it. He hired him, he signed JJ for 3 years. He signed Neifi for 2 years, He traded away three top poitching prospects for Pierre. He signed Rusch for 2 years. Yes he has made a couple deals that were good, but the bad and losses WAY outweigh them.

The Cubs showed their still incompitent selves when tehy reupped with Hendry.

dusty isnt universally loved in baseball, but there's not many he doesn't have respect from.

he's not one of the highest paid managers by accident.

some may not give a rat's ass, but his ability to personally deal with all kinds of attitudes, backgrounds, cultures and have the players actually understand it is his main tool and its not a tool that's easy to come by.

i do NOT need a lecture on what dusty doesn't do...if you can't tell i'm kinda clued in already.

moving on...

a manager has a lot of roles to play on a club...for the fans its to guide the team to victory. a lot of this belief is held by football-mentality fans. a lot in the baseball realm do not share this belief...that a manager can make/break a team by the sheer will of their presence.

for most clubs, a manager is there to keep everyone in their roles and happy/ready to perform. its not sexy, but that's it...200 days together without killing each other, working on crap, and knowing your role.

they write the lineup, make the switches, and occasionally make the call on in-game strategy.

ultimately its up to the players to perform in their given roles.

ultimately its up to the players to perform in their given roles.

But dusty is one of the best at putting the wrong guys in the wrong roles, which is why he should go.

Deposesta? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Great job he did in Los Angeles.

I agree manny. I had a big scary Aha! moment when Hendry supported him after 2004. It was a horrible moment. I had imagined after watching that whole season (not just the last two weeks) that Hendry was embarassed by the Cubs perforamnce and attitude and was gonig to do something about baker. IOnstead the Stone contraversy breaks out AND Hendry backs baker. BTW Hendry could easily have NOT backed stone and NOT backed Baker. Something along the lines of addressing that it is innappropriate for players nad managers being paid MILLINIOS of dollars per year to bring Chicago a WS victory got in a yapping contest with stone while their perforamnce suffered. Somehow acknowledging that this was not appropriate and fair to the ticket paying public who count on the manager and players not watching or listening to the announcers and instead being fully focussed on winning games would have been nice.

Until then I had Hendry on a pedastal and Baker alone as a freak. But it made me wonder about the whole arganization when Hendry and McPhail said nothing to assure us fans taht this behavior would be dealt with.

Then Hendry basically dismantled the team based on Baker's assertion that the attitudes were the problem. Sosa, Farns, Mercker. Sisco, Alou. and Hendry didn't bring in a LF or a closer and Dusty throws Hawkins back out there. A PROVEN disaster as a clsoer and crowd pleaser. Sheesh.

All the while Dusty teams miss signs, blow bunts, are fundementally unsound, stupidly strategized, and OH! they cannot afford a LH batting practice arm. WTF!

This organization is a joke. And Dusty is the punchline.

But I like your analogy Manny. Baker is the cancer and Hendry is the doctor watching it spread . . .

Let's take a look at what "manager" actually means. I took this out of Webster's: "Sports:
One who is in charge of the training and performance of an athlete or a team." If we deem Webster a reliable source, then I'd say Dusty should be judged on the criteria of the definition. In that case, see ya!

hendry's attitude shakeup was all him, btw...

dustbag didn't have much if anything to do with it...you're better off blaming mcphail and hendry if you want a partner on that cause.

and the whole stone thing was nothing...nothing at all...

well, it was to alou/mercker but it didnt seem to phase them.

Superjimmer-
Actually the Merker/Stone incident happened in late August and after that HOU series the Cubs went on to go 16-7 in the next 23 games. The Stone thing had nothing to do with the collapse of the last 10 days.

yesterday i tried willing them to win.
that blew up in my face when maddux got shelled.

last night i prayed to my father's ghost for some help here.
no dice.

the guy who commented yesterday on how houston was 11-19 at this point last year really gave me a bit of a pickup. but man, this is looking bad.

how in hell did we score 16 runs?

what in hell must we do to get a damned rally going?

how much bad mojo is there here? if there was a bad mojometer we'd have fucking broken the damn thing by now!

everybody, sacrifice some living thing for the sake of this club. a chicken, a turtle, a wombat, a cardinals fan.

AAARRGGHHH!!!!

Siperjimmer:
"But I like your analogy Manny. Baker is the cancer and Hendry is the doctor watching it spread . . ."

For the record, I don't think Baker is a cancer, I was just throwing that analogy out there as something you can use, since it seems that is how you feel.

to add to the "stone incident" talk...

after the "stone incident":

alou:
.309avg .424ob% .546slg .970ops

mercker:
9 games 6.1ip 2h 2r 3bb 8k 2.84era 0.79whip

now can we shut up about this already?

geez...just cuz the press got some fans worked up and got some quotes outta dusty cuz the story was 1- good and 2- would not die, it doesnt mean that the club was fixated on it. they weren't...the meida was...the fans were...

general manager

n : the highest ranking manager

So as someone posted earlier, Hendry hired Baker. So it falls on Hendry's shoulders as well. But with the new extension, we can forget about Hendry being gone. I remember when Hendry got the extension that a lot of fans were pleased since you could point to a change in attitude by the direction of the organization, as well as key player acquisitions (Lee, Ramirez, Nomar*, Alou, Barrett, Maddux, Dempster, Pierre, etc.). Funny thing is, why the hell should we care if we acquire AllStars if it doesn't produce winning teams? Last I checked, how many AllStars did Kenny Williams bring in for the 2005 season? How'd that work out? I'd trade Derrek Lee, Aramis, Demp, and Barrett for average joes if it meant we would improve our team.

Also, this new "attitude" of the Cubs organization is crap. How many said that the 2004 Cubs team was the best team on paper they've probably ever had going into a season- and that team won a whopping 89 games!!! I think 1969 and '84 were the last 2 time the Cubs broke the 90-win barrier. So that 2004 team (wildcard choke or not) was unable to sniff 95 wins? Good god. I'd take a 100 win season and first round playoff upset if it meant I could enjoy 6 months of superior baseball (of course I'd rather have a WS, but I'd settle for consistency if nothing else).

Nazey-
And "general manager" means the highest ranking manager. In that case, see ya Hendry!!

sorry nazey, I posted my post before seeing yours...

No worries Manny. You're just on top of it like a two hopper deep in the hole.

manny you are wrng I'll get you the dates of when baker went to the press about teh stone comment. The incident I am talking about happened right before the collapse.

Crunch you are the best argument I have on most fronts. Do you think anyone with a brain thinks that managers don't really do effect the outcome of the game (for $4 million) AND that the Stone thing was nothing? Dusty sure didn't think it was anything. Why are you so dead set on making sure that everyone believes that YOU have inside informatoin ("hendry's attitude shakeup was all him, btw..."). I mean what the hell do you know? What info are you privvy to?

And you are just plain wrong about the Stone thing. It happened. It mattered. It is why Ston is not employed for the Cubs.

You are insane.

Crunch-
Thanks for those stats of Alou and Merker. Those along with the stats I have shown about the Cubs record after the incident, should end that complaint against Dusty, but just like the playing rookies, hurting pitchers arms and clogging bases, the inaccurate depictions will continue I am sure.

Any chance Cub Nation could petition Mark Cuban to make TribCo an offer they can't refuse? I hate that guy, but one hell of an owner (at least in terms of taking a laughing stock and turning it around with money).

Unless your Darren Baker, I can't imagine why anyone would even care right now if Dusty got fired. Who gives a shit? We suck, we've underperformed for 2+ years, something has to change and that change almost always starts with the manager. Firing a manager can spark a team, it's been done. It may not in this case, but you can't fire 25 players unfortunately.

Blaming Hendry is all well and good, but firing the GM isn't going to change anything right now (and of course isn't even plausible with his extension). Players don't relate to the GM, they relate to the manager and a fresh perspective, a new attitude can only help at this point. I suppose Hendry might try and wait to see what happens with Wood/Prior/Lee, but we're going to be out of it again like last year by the end of May.

they're flat sept. stats, btw...

alou actually had an even more kickass oct. to pump his stats throught the roof and mercker had 1 oct. outting where he gave up 1 hit (a HR) in 1ip to bump down his stats a bit.

by oct. i figured it didnt matter too much, though...

and superj...BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. you don't listen to a damn word i type and just wanna make this some kind of personal arguement. go dig your underwear outta your crack and get on with life. you're asking questions that have already been answered and on things you can't find answers to you're accusing me of poising having insider information. christ man, you wanna put dusty in charge of the minor league organization and i'm full of shit? damn dude...don't you have any new conspiracies to dream up?

jack mckeon's wonderful managing lasted all of a 1/2 year before he was "shit" again...

bob brenley's wonderful managing lasted all of a year or so before he was "shit"...

joe torre couldnt "manage" his way outta a box til he got a competative payroll and tallent to work with...

managing and wins do not go hand in hand...tallent and wins do...

managers have control over strategy of the game, but ultimately the players on the field have so so so much mroe control over it than any manager could ever have. most of the "strategy" of a manager involves shit players that are asked to bunt a runner over or hit to a certain field on the batting side and pitching changes/matchups on the pitching side.

ya know who's a good in-game guy to have manage...davey johnson...know why he isn't a manager...cuz he has the people skills of an autistic child.

Geez, if you're going to argue endlessly and wrongly about the Mercker incident, at least spell the guy's name correctly.

The fact is, Baker and Stone were feuding well BEFORE Mercker supposedly called Stone in the booth, which he did not, he called Sharon Pannozzo. And Stoney was one of the people instrumental in convincing Baker to come to Chicago in the first place, so he obviously thought Baker was a great manager. Things between those two just apparently went bad earlier that season and came to a head in August.

Frankly I think both of them are nuts.

Unbelievable....STILL talking about how poor Stoney was run out of his job.

Bob,

Losing Stoney was the greatest injustice ever committed by humanity. The Killing Fields, Holocaust, Milosevic, nothing compared to losing an above average color guy for a Cubs telecast. The travesty, how are we supposed to go on?

(sarcasm)

Stoney dug his own grave folks, he violated the broadcasters 1st commandment, "Don't become part of the story." Whether it's his fault, Baker's fault, the player's fault, it don't matter, broadcasters are there to tell us what's happening, not be a part of what's happening. It's why I can't stand to listen to Joe Buck, his reaction to Moss's mock-mooning was far worse than the act itself. You think VIn Scully would ever get involved with a war of words with the players? Hell, Harry Caray bagged on the players all the time, but I guarantee if anyone had issue with it he'd either back off his comments or publicly apologize. Stone was pining for a bigger payday and it all backfired on him. There's nothing wrong with criticizing, but whether you feel it's right or not, it was up to Stone to back off. I don't tune into the game to find out what the hell is up with Stoney and whether he feels he's right or not. I tune into to watch the Cubs. I appreciated Stoney cause he was insightful and did know what he talking about, but he crossed the line, DON'T BECOME THE STORY!!!

Commence with the flaming now....

Rob G., could not agree more. What people seem to overlook is Stoney's monstrous ego in all of this. Personally, I feel that's why he took the job with the Score, so he could continue to be viewed as Chicago's Baseball God while sticking it to the Cubs at every turn.

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