Go! Go! Two In A Row!

GAME FIFTY-ONE IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CINCINNATI REDS (28-23, 2nd, 5.0 GB) AT CHICAGO CUBS (19-31, 5th, 13.5 GB) Wrigley Field, 7:05 PM CDT Weather: 78 degrees, cloudy, wind variable @ 8 mph TV: CSN, DirecTV 743 Radio: WGN, XM 188
Greg Maddux, RHP 5-4, 4.28 ERA, 61.0 IP 41 K, 16 BB, 5 HR 272/316/414 againstBrandon Claussen, LHP 3-5, 5.25 ERA, 58 1/3 IP 44 K, 18 BB, 12 HR 296/357/511 against

# Felipe Lopez, SS *Scott Hatteberg, 1B *Ken Griffey, CF *Adam Dunn, LF Austin Kearns, RF #Javier Valentin, C Edwin Encarnacion, 3B Ryan Freel, 2B Brandon Claussen, P*Juan Pierre, CF *Tony Womack, 2B Matt Murton, LF Aramis Ramirez, 3B *Todd Walker, 1B Ronny Cedeno, SS *Jacque Jones, RF Henry Blanco, C Greg Maddux, P
Reds vs. Maddux: Javier Valentin: 6-12, 500/538/1500, 4 HR, 1 BB, 2 K Ken Griffey: 9-21, 429/538/762, 2 HR, 4 BB, 7 K Ryan Freel: 6-19, 316/316/579, 1 HR, 2 K Austin Kearns: 7-24, 292/292/458, 1 HR, 6 K Jason LaRue: 5-17, 294/368/333, 1 BB, 4 K Adam Dunn: 4-28, 143/226/464, 3 HR, 3 BB, 8 K Rich Aurilia: 8-39, 205/205/410, 2 HR, 5 K
Return to Homepage

Comments

Tony, Tony, he's our man! If he can't do it, some other fogie can! He might hit .300, he might not, but I guarantee he'll get treated like he does either way.

tony womack, get out of my life right now. please.

i fear for the day that we get womack-perez playing 2B-SS, batting 1-2 on a day when pierre gets his day off. no more bad players who are short on the cubs.

I really, truly, don't understand the scorn of Womack in the short term. If Womack starts ahead of Walker when Lee is back, then I will understand why people are upset. If womack starts ahead of some uber-rookie callup destined to show his worth for the team, then I understand.

But considering the other options now at 2b are Neifi and Hairston...I really don't get the problem with Womack...more Womack means less Neifi, pure and simple. I don't understand who Womack is taking playing time away from that everyone seems to think is hurting the team.

Nice throw, jacque ass.

If Dusty had any balls/sense, he'd take him out of the game RIGHT NOW.

This ain't the little leagues.

Blockhead, here's the problems with Womack.

Based on recent history, if Womack performs at even an average level for a couple of weeks, not only will he become a fixture in the line-up for the rest of the year, but he will also be rewarded with a multi-year contract next year as thanks for saving our season.

(from other thread)

screw it, lets just blame the damn park. tear down that house of woes and build something new in its place. we can play in rockford during the rebuilding year of 2007.

i got great memories of going to games there with my dad when i was a kid, and my most prized photo is of me and him under the marqee, but i think at the 100 year anniversary they should fill it with TNT and start over for real.

anyone? anyone?

Blue...Yes, if we sign him for a multi year deal, that's a problem...but I see this as a short term move to give us a little juice compared to Hairston and Perez...while possibly freeing up Walker to be traded this year...and then starting fresh next year. I'm not keen on trading Walker...but he is probably one of our most valuable trading chips.

hey, why is the game delayed in the 4th!?
please tell me bynum fell out of a sky box.
whats going on?!

Cubby, I'm going to have to guess rain
http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/inters...

:-)

oh, jeez i was freaked out there.

but shit if the rain was bad enough to call it before walker hit, couldnt they have called it before aramis flied out, dammit?!

once again the lineup is juggled in a way where the timely hit is far from it.

i fear for the day that we get womack-perez playing 2B-SS, batting 1-2 on a day when pierre gets his day off.

They've fielded a San Fransisco Giants type Dusty Baker team....took him 4 years to do it...

Granted it's minus the steroids....but that would explain the current year record.

Oh my, I had no idea Blanco was this bad at the plate. That is amazingly bad - as are his career numbers. I would doubt any catcher plays enough defense to compensate for that kind of offensive short-coming. What gives?

Dusty saw him get a couple hits back in the mid 90's, and demanded he be brought onto this team.

The problem is that Womack is still going to be getting starts like he's 7-12 even after the rest of the national league have pulled his scouting report off the microfiche.

And while he's better than Hairston or Neifi, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like The Riot get reps over Tony Womack to grow and salvage some bright spot from this wasted season.

The big problem with Dusty is that he sees a guy go 4-6 and he will always remember that, and somehow believe that his is true ability. Even after an 0-25 slump.

Unles you are younger than 30.

stop talking about that, discuss the game please

Yes, we have no reason at all to be disgusted by this team.

Go get some more kool aid.

Wrigley Field's not the problem, curses aren't the problem - an organization under two owners that's had its head up its ass for 60 years is the problem.

For those who do think it's something besides gross incompetence, here's some fuel for your supernatural fire - the Cubs have never won a World Series north of Madison Street. They did win a couple of championships at a place at Randolph and the lake but that was in the 19th century, pre-WS. Maybe Chicago was meant to have two south side teams.

i think the cubs dont deseart the kind of fans that we are, but the only thing that we can do, its always stay positive, because after 50 years we still gonna be cubies fans, no matter what

looks like the delay was good for the ofense

I am positive about one thing - this team needs a good housecleaning, starting with McFail, and ending at the lowest level coach at the Dominican Summer League.

We will never win anything with the clowns we have in this organization.

i agree whit you, we need to clean this organization, i sick of them

yes. we need some good personal hygiene.

Back to the game -- has any one heard why maddux left early? There was speculation that he'd been hurt somehow, but I haven't heard anything on CSN or WGN Radio...any updates?

Haven't heard a thing, but remember, it is Maddux, and he seldom goes deep into games anymore. Lip reading him on the mound he seemed to say nothing was wrong.

did we get the TWomack who played for the cards in 04?

He's implying that 64 pitches seemed a little short. Anyway I've always had the impression Maddux goes deeper than any other starting pitcher than the Z-man. He's a reliable 6 inning arm.

Someone at BCB said it was dizziness and nausea.

Yes Eli, it's the same Womack who hit over .300 for the Cards last year. Once you've start dissing every move and every player we would probably diss Tejada, Jeter or any other star the first time they strike out. I'm not sure anyone knows the difference anymore.

the cubs win !!! leet hope its a good sign of the things to come

Actually, he hit .249 with the Yankees last year, with peripherals of .276/.280!/.566.

This is horrible, no matter who the player is.
Even more so for a 36-year old, average fielding second baseman on a team stocked with second basemen. He has never been an OBP guy, and never will.
This was a stupid pick-up, no matter how he's performed so far.

Womack is no Tejada, no Jeter, and not even a Todd Walker. He's more like Neifi on steroids and if Cincy released him, that's hardly a stunning pickup by Hendry.

I was watching the Reds broadcast tonight and the broadcaster said that Womack was quoted as saying he signed with the Cubs only because he knew it would be his best chance to make it back to the majors.

So no, not a good move by Hendry. Just a lucky move by Hendry. And what an indictment on the quality of this team if Tony fricking Womack knew it gave him the best chance to play, with five second basemen no less!!!!!!!!!!!!!

neifi/hairston/womack/bynum...pick your poison. at least there's an option no matter how fringe.

with all the troubles the yanks have...and the cockblocking of the entire IF while having some IF hitting prospects that are legitamately expendable...and them doing jack about their injuries...

its just not that easy to make a major move for anything but a mutual glaring need or an underperforming dump from another team (o.hernandez/j.julio).

i thought hairston was gonna do well better than he's doing, but while his baserunning has gotten a lot sharper/better in quality, his bat just looks slow and clumbsy. he's getting under a lotta stuff and for a grounder-liner guy like him, that's just useless.

btw, yes, i know about milkey cabrerra...but there's more of an issue than matsui's injury for the yanks since opening day came and went...besides, cab isnt replacing matsui's power (though he's definately better than his power #s so far).

melky cabrera

=p

Anyone seen this article?

Pitiful Cubs could use a maverick owner

http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-s...

Anything new would be refreshing. As I'm sure has been posted here before:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Benjamin Franklin

It'd working with Womack now so enjoy. You can't have Neifi sit and complain about Womack playing...or I guess you can if you insist on complaining. When DLee returns Walker goes back to 2nd and Womack makes a lot better bench player than Bynum. The Cincy situation was caused mostly by an overflow of 2nd basemen just like the Cubs but he was deemed the most expendable. Woamack has always had streaks where he was a very exciting and useable MLB player. Why bitch before he plays poorly. I notice the griping about JJ has eased since he is hitting...even though his throwing still sucks. I've been seeing a lot of this BEFORE guys even play a game. Get real and give a guy a chance. It didn't take a genius to figure that Hairston and Perez weren't getting it done..I'd signed with the Cubs too. Besides Womack can also fill at SS and all of the OF positions.

Womack will have a career year at 36... doubtful.

The guy is living off a few years of remarkable SB totals in the late 90's.

Think about it. If Womack was such a great find why wasn't Theo Epstein all over him when Alex Gonzalez and Alex Cora are playing SS and filling in for Mark Loretta at 2B?

Henry:yes. we need some good personal hygiene.

I've heard peeing on your hands sterilizes AND builds callouses. Someone should tell the team.

Steve:has any one heard why maddux left early?

Maddux allows the Cubs to use him for exactly 1 hour and 26 minutes every outing. Sometimes a rain delay will prorate his outing. There's golf to be played!

New Topic (maybe):

Who is the Cub's All Star?
Up till 10 days ago, i would have said Dempster. Now... i'll go with Howry. Behold the middle reliever.

It could be from a list of Dempster, Eyre, Howry, Jones or Walker. None is exciting but we have to have one. Barrett might have had a chance until he coldcocked AJ.

All things considered the Cubs played a pretty good game this evening...Finally we are seeing some timely hitting and Maddux had a better outing than he has had recently...2 wins in a row is nothing to write home about BUT it's a start...We'll see if the Cubs can sweep the Reds and start a run towards .500...;-)

Depending on what Garner wants for his bullpen, a lefty or righty, it would most likely go to Howry or Eyre. If Maddux has a solid June, say 3 wins, that would give him 9, so maybe him. Z still leading NL in Ks, but needs to stack up the wins. I'd say 3 in June and one in July before the AS game, giving him 7 with k leader might be enough, but doubt it.

How about this: Maddux repeats his April, Z is finally ready to truly dominate in June, and Wood gives 5 quality starts. With Lee coming back, we could be back in it at the end of June, middle of July!!!

Just kidding. Grad school is frying my brain, but not to this extent.

Prior: Don't question my desire

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

D- Desperately
E- Entertaining
S- Some
I- Ineffective
R-Rehabs
E- Eternally

I disagree about our all-star. Remember the players have votes now for backups, and everyone hates Przynski, Barret will probably get voted in as the backup catcher by his peers BECAUSE he slugged AJ.

cubs/hendry stuff from paul sulivan/trib...

lotta "blah blah blame me not the trib" stuff from hendry with explainations and this...

"Tribune Co. announced Tuesday it would sell off some "non-core" assets, not including the Cubs."

Nazey: How about this: Maddux repeats his April, Z is finally ready to truly dominate in June, and Wood gives 5 quality starts. With Lee coming back, we could be back in it at the end of June, middle of July!!!

It's too early to write the season off, it's a very long season. The problem is playoff teams don't usually have 5-20 stretches and hit a winning percentage of .392

Of course you have to expect suckiness when your best player is injured for 6 weeks. Angel Pagan was a huge loss, too, because that meant Bynum is in where Pagan would have been.

"cubs/hendry stuff from paul sulivan/trib..."

hiatus yes, vacation no

corey's progress in baltimore is a damning indictment of this whole stinking organization.

"It's too early to write the season off"

It might be, John Dewon(?) from Stats inc was on the Score the other day doing magic numbers. These are not exactly as I remember but the Cardinals on the Cubs is 96. The Cubs on the Cardinals is 126. Houston on the Cubs is 106. The Cubs on Houston is 117. The thing is the Cubs can't have one team dominate another because they are chasing too many teams. It's a nice little mess they got themselves into.

By the way -- Corey with 2HR and an SB last night. Now hitting .291 and is 18/19 in SB.

He is, to me, the defining failure of Hendry's organization. Unable to harness his obvious talent, they inexplicably put him in the one spot (leadoff) that accentuated his weaknesses and made him a more prominent target for fans, despite the fact that he had show no indication that he was ready for the role.

He's also hitting that in about 140 ABs. Let's wait a bit longer before we declare Corey Patterson back to his 2003-2004 form. He's had wonderful stretches at the plate before, particularly early in the season.

By the way, since the Dusty apologists like to call Dusty's Veteran Love a myth, I wonder how they explain the tale of two mediocre second basemen:

Ryan Theroit: Spends 18 days in Chicago, gets 4 at bats.

Tony Womack: 4 Days in Chicago, 16 ABs.

But Dusty treats veterans and rookies equally, and don't you dare question it.

crunch: "Tribune Co. announced Tuesday it would sell off some "non-core" assets, not including the Cubs."

I wonder if that would include some of the more trivial things like the newspaper.

Thomas Jefferson once said that a man who can not read at all is better educated than a man who only reads newspapers.

billybucks: By the way -- Corey with 2HR and an SB last night. Now hitting .291 and is 18/19 in SB.

And Pierre looks like Patterson circa 2004-2005. That's just spooky because you know Pierre's slump is not for lack of effort or ability. Very strange, indeed. Almost curse-like.

Bleeding Blue: By the way, since the Dusty apologists like to call Dusty's Veteran Love a myth

It's not that he likes veterans better, it's just easier for him. A rookie you need to lead and mentor a bit, but a veteran you can just put out on the field and he does his thing.

Yeah, Matt Murton, Ronnie Cedeno, Sean Marshall have really not gotten enough PT. That Dusty, he sure hates rookies.

HE IS BARRY, BARRY HAPPY-

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

The always delusional Barry bonds.

Yeah, they're low-maintenance.

It's the chicken and the egg theory when it comes to Dusty's alleged bias versus younger players. My take is that if the Cub system actually produced legitimate positional talent, then Dusty will play it. Last time I checked Matt Murton and Ronny Cedeno were playing regularly.

Dusty plays stiffs like Neifi and Womack because the Cub farm system continues in its failure to produce top flight young talent. Blame Hendry.

Mike-
That may be true, but while this team has been struggling the last month with Neifi out there bunting to end games, playing out of postion at second and just being plain sucky Neifi Dusty did not start Theriot once.

Theriot is hitting .299 ia AAA, and is considered a solid fielder....he may never pan out, but he was on the roster, and deserved a shot at least.

Point being we know Neifi sucks but will never know about Theriot when there was an opportune time to find out.

And Murton played once Lawton and holly were taken away from Dusty.

WHEN JACQUES JONES' MOTHER ATTACKS-
(picture included)

http://www.wearethepostmen.com/?p=431

Interview with guy who mixed it up with the Joneses on Friday. He knew the Joneses were sitting there, then again don't sit with the riff raff if you don't want to hear the crass talk.

Of course, Bleeding Blue neglects how many hits Womack has gotten in those 16 ABs, because it weakens his argument.

Clemens is officially back with the Astros:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5651570

Ryno-

The Corey/Pierre switch is almost as alarming as Nomar's rebirth out west. The guy has been an amazing hitter for his entire career, except for 2 years...the Wrigley years. Ugh.

Did anyone else catch the quote from Dusty Baker where he says he's thinking about making Womack his leadoff man and batting Pierre second!

No one who thinks like that should be managing in the major leagues.

"The guy has been an amazing hitter for his entire career, except for 2 years...the Wrigley years. Ugh."

??

Nothing wrong with Nomar's hitting when he was a Cub.

Hey!!! Womack! is 8 for 16!!!
Judging by his career stats, and status as a proven veteran, he should end up at 96 for 206, with 80 runs..right?

Great move..ugh.

Of course, Bleeding Blue neglects how many hits Womack has gotten in those 16 ABs, because it weakens his argument.

I didn't neglect anything Pete, what difference does it make how many hits Womack has when Theroit wasn't given a chance to see if he could perform on the same level? Womack had more plate appearances in ONE GAME than Theriot got in THREE WEEKS!

If Both players were given a chance to play for even a week, Theroit sucked and Womack performed well, then maybe you'd have a point.

But My point has nothing to do with how well or how poorly Womack does in 16 ABs. My point is that Womack is given a chance to see how well he can do because he is a veteran, while Dusty makes Theriot rots on the bench for 3 weeks because he is a rookie.

Dusty plays stiffs like Neifi and Womack because the Cub farm system continues in its failure to produce top flight young talent. Blame Hendry.

Typical Dusty apologist, we are supposed to blame Jim Hendry because Dusty refuses to play a young prospect when the decaying veterans don't perform. Seriously, if Dusty isn't responsible for making decisions about playing time, is he responsible for ANYTHING?

How on earth is the Cubs farm system supposed to produce anything when players who do get called up see the batters box all of 5 times over the course of a 3 week call up?

Yes, Shame on Hendry for signing Womack in the first place, and Shame on Hendry for calling him up from Triple-A, but you can't blame Hendry for Dusty's refusal to give the rookie Theroit, when he gives every chance in the world to decaying veterans.

While I too have issues with Dusty, I don't know how anybody can much blame him for his lineup decisions. Take a look at the crappy roster he has to work with!!! Pierre, Neifi, Hairston, Womack, Bynum, Blanco, Mabry!!! YOU try filling out a sufficient lineup card with names like that. Last time I checked Pierre had a SUB 300 ON BASE PERCENTAGE! Can you hardly blame Dusty for thinking about putting Womack at the top of the lineup? Answer is no. The roster is AWFUL.

I don't care if Womack hits a HR every time he is up, and makes Gold-Glove plays at 2B. He is not part of the long-term plan for the Cubs - he cannot be, at his age and on his career path. Womack is a great pickup if Lee gets hurt, you move Walker to first, and the Cubs are contending. Womack is a horrible terrible pickup when the Cubs are a cellar dweller, are quite obviously not just "one player away," and need to see what talent they have in their organization that can be in the plan for 2007 and beyond.

It's a simple matter of perspective. Womack may have something left in the tank, but who cares? If the ultimate goal is to see the Cubs win a World Series, picking up Womack is a net negative.

Hope this doesn't come as a revelation to anybody, but Ryan Theriot is the next Richard Lewis who was the next Chad Meyers. In other words, he ain't good. Don't blame Dusty for ignorning largely ignoring a player who has zero business being on a big league roster to begin with. Wrath should be directed at Hendry for this roster mess and the continued failure of the Cub farm system to produce legitimate QUALITY talent.

And, I can blame Dusty in part for the complete lack of patience and discipline shown by Cubs hitters. The attitude, the approach from day 1 is to "be aggressive." Walks "clog the bases." He may not have much to work with, but he's also not the guy to bring talent up to potential. He is a master enabler of poor play and poor attitude.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=194654

Dusty says at this time he has a double leadoff man situation at the top.... (@%!&@# sound of head exploding)

Change at the top? Dusty Baker said itís possible heíll put second baseman Tony Womack into the leadoff spot and move struggling Juan Pierre into the No. 2 spot.Pierre entered Tuesday with an on-base percentage of .269. That placed him 95th in the NL.ìRight now I think Womack can do more in the second spot as far as bunting and hit-and-running than Juan can,î Baker said. ìI have to sit down and talk to those guys, both of them, because at this point, you have a double leadoff man situation.ìAt this time, as far as stealing is concerned, I think Juan might have the nod for age and speed than Tony. Iíve got to see how good Tonyís running before I can make that decision, too.îWomack took a lifetime OBP of .317 into Tuesday.

You can blame Dusty when ever he bats Neifi above the 8th spot in the lineup.

Wrath can be directed at Dusty for failing to give marginal players like Theriot and Restovich even a sniff at the playing field, Mike. If the Cubs were in a pennant race, that's one thing. But they're not. Why not take a flier on a Theriot? Stick ihim in the lineup for a week. OR, with Restovich, a platoon with Jock was basically his purpose in life as he mashes lefty pitching, but hey, we'll never know because Dusty wouldn't put him out there. We might suspect that these were Richard Lewises, but we don't have any way to know for sure because we have zero evidence of their abilities at the major league level.

Your other point that Hendry should also be an object of wrath is a correct one. It's hard to be that bad at judging talent and developing talent... and yet the evidence on that speaks for itself.

OFFICIAL:
Clemens resigns with Astros, pro-rated $21 million/1-year deal.

UNOFFICIAL:
Red Sox begin lining up prospects to trade Astros on July 31.

Tell me Morpheus, what is the "potential" of crap like Neifi, Hairston, Mabry, Blanco, Bynum and Womack? In terms of Pierre, the guy's offensive ability has been in a pronounced nosedive since the end of the 2004 season. Jock Jones is producing at a level consistent with the marginal, non-impressive production he gave Minnesota. Ronny Cedeno and Matt Murton are young players in the development and proving stage. Seems to me each is holding his own even though neither falls into the category of being a "sure thing" for the future.

So tell me, how has Dusty and his coaches "failed" Cub hitters? I can't think of a single instance where you can point to failure of Cub hitting instruction. The failure is with the talent (or lack thereof) on hand.

Being concern which player can steal more bases or is better at sacrificing instead of worrying about getting high OBP guys at the top of the order is more evidence that the Cubs do not understand what makes offenses score runs.

Mike-
How do you know that Theriot is Richard Lewis?
How much time did Lewis spend with the parent club?
Theriot is hitting .299 at Iowa. He is younger than Hairshirt, Neifi F. Perez, or Womack!
How do we know how he will play...unless he plays!!!
He may turn out to be nothing, but, as the season is in the toilet, why not play the guy who is 10 years younger than Womack!??
Hell....play Bynum at 2nd and see what he has to offer...anything over Womack....weeping, creeping JESUS!!!!! #%@&*!!

If Ryan Theriot was the next Mark Grudzielanek or Michael Restovich was even the next Todd Hollandsworth that would be one thing, but fact is both are nothing more than perpetual Triple A types. Therefore, I can't get worked up over Dusty's refusal to give either major league playing time.

The BIGGER picture is being missed, and that is the continued FAILURE of the Jim Hendry / Omar Fleita minor league system to produce legitimate quality talent that can compete for major league jobs.

"So tell me, how has Dusty and his coaches "failed" Cub hitters? I can't think of a single instance where you can point to failure of Cub hitting instruction."

It is not so much that Dusty and the Cubs have failed hitters, it is that he/they don't value getting on base and controling the strike zone. Instead he/they like players like Womack and Neifi (both of who were cut from their prior teams). Also, when he/they have a player who has strengths and weakness they do nothing to minimize those weaknesses (see JJ not platooning, CP leading off, Neifi hitting something other than 8th for examples).

Set up a straw man and knock it down. Nicely done. If a team consistently (that's over years, mind you, not just this year) sees the lowest number of pitches per at-bat, is near the bottom of the league in OBP and walks, then what does that tell you? If it's over one year, then it's most likely the collection of players. If it's over multiple years, then more likely it's an organizational issue, a problem with the general approach encouraged by the club.

We'll never know about actual potential of anyone with this management regime because youth generally does not get a shot. Murton and Cedeno have, but they are the exception; they both spent significant pine-time last year with the Cubs, don't forget. Neifi spent an awful lot of time starting while Ronny was on the bench. Dubois last year, Theriot, Restovich... and before you wah-wah about Dubois, remember he started maybe once a week, with Hollandsworth getting the bulk of the time in the field. How do you know what you have if you don't really make an attempt to find out?

My youth comments do not apply to pitchers - Baker has shown no hesitation in using young pitchers, I'll agree. I don't know what his hangup is with young position players, but it is pretty obvious that he would much rather play a known quantity like a Neifi than a young guy with upside like Theriot.

After 2002 the Cubs were a team that was going to be built on young pitching and young position players. They hired a manager who was known for working well with veteran players, but who had a poor record of working with young players (maybe no record would be a better way to put it).

Clearly Dusty is a perfectly fine manager on the right team (see his record in SF), but his hiring in Chicago is another example of the Cubs trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.

Robr and Dusty Baylor, good points, and stuff I probably should have included in my post.

Another thing - there's nothing wrong with laying blame on Dusty and Hendry andMacFAIL... we don't have to choose one. I blame them all.

Mike...how do you KNOW that Theriot is that type?
By looking at a sample size of 30 AB's?

You continue to pound us with Neifi, Hairston, Mabry...we are not talking about them.

One name for starters: Corey Patterson
Talk about avoiding culpability.
He may not end up the gaudy stats he has now, but 3 years of jamming him into the leadoff spot in the lineup was just HORRIBLE!!!
He never hit leadoff in the minors, and now he's supposed to do it on the fly at this level???
He sure looks good in the 7 spot.

How about lineup construction??
Pierre has been a disappointment, and has been penciled into the lineup leading off. So why not maximize what you DO have until Lee gets back?
1)Pierre...ok, he's stunk, but this is what he's here for
2)Murton: a little pop, good patience, will take a walk, and can hit
3)Walker: He's hit well, is patient, and has performes as we'd hoped
4)Ramirez/Barrett: Whichever is the hot hand at the time. These are the 2 guys who should carry the load a bit
6)Jacque Jones: Jacque has hit pretty well, and should continue to play against RHP. PLATOON?
7)Cedeno: Not enough OBP for the #2 spot, a little pop and good speed here though.
8)Whoever plays second base. Theriot, Bynum, Hairston.....Neifi!!! or Womack!

Platoon Restovich, Hairston, or another yet-to be determined righty OF with Jones.

Of course, Duty the Magician has to continually shuttle everyone around, and avoid obp at the top of the lineup at all costs, bnecause spped is way more important of course...ugh.

Hendry is to blame for who is on the roster, Dusty couldn't find his ass with both hands, a map, and a flashlight!!!

I thought I'd offer a different criticism of Dusty on young players. Re his line-ups, the order of hitters cannot affect more than a handful of games a year. But re younger players, I think the problem this year is with the pitching. This year has presented a great opportunity to let Guzman and Hill learn how to pitch at the major league level, and yet they've both been sent down after a few bad starts. As I recall, Maddux got shelled for much of the year in '87. Not that Guzman and Hill are Maddux level, but why not let them take their lumps and eventually develop confidence now? There's nothing to lose except for ugly Rusch starts and fantasies that Wood or Prior can be counted on for the future. Development of young pitching sure seems more important than determining if Theriot or Restovich can be decent utility players.

Good point Mojo..
Again, nothing to lose with that.
I do think that Guzman would be better served pitching in Iowa this year, as he's missed most of the last 2 years with injury.

Anyone else curious about Marmol, Mateo, or Shaver in AA?

If Ryan Theriot was the next Mark Grudzielanek or Michael Restovich was even the next Todd Hollandsworth that would be one thing, but fact is both are nothing more than perpetual Triple A types. Therefore, I can't get worked up over Dusty's refusal to give either major league playing time.

The point that is missed is the Cubs will take guys like Womack and Neifi, who in their own right are nothing more than AAA players, and hand them starting jobs, huge amounts of playing time, and fat contracts.

A guy like Neifi Perez is a dime a dozen in every major league system in baseball. Augie Ojeda can do what he can do for 300k. Ryan Theriot can do what he can do for 300k. Nope, not the Cubs they throw $2.5 million at something that can be fixed for 300k.

Womack, Theriot, Fontenot. Probably would all have the same results at 2nd. They would probably all suck. And this is the part where fans get upset. Why bring in a guy who is sitting on his couch, eating nacho's, has spent zero time in the organizaton, promote him, and make him your starter?

I don't know how better else to explain it more clearly over the internet. I guess it is like a company who has 3 people they are grooming for the job but none are up to speed for the job. So in a brillant move the company hires some slob of a Boss who is no better than the 3 they already have.

It doesn't make any sense when you bring in scrubs like Womack and Perez who are no better than players you currently have in AAA. I will give a shot to a guy like Theriot at 2nd over a guy like Womack any day of the week.

Right now Guzman is just a mediocre AAA pitcher. He's not ready.

14 K's yesterday. Hill is an enigma. He belongs in another league, AAAA+ I think the Cubs need to bring both Hill and Soto up at the same time, let Hill pitch to Soto, and give Rothschild the day off so he can't ruin things.

With Barrett often set up a foot outside the plate when Hill was pitching ...well, is it any wonder Hill had a hard time getting the ball over?

I am so entirely sick of the arguement by Dusty apologists that its ok to let young players rot on the bench because they aren't any good in the first place. How do you know, when the only thing we've seen of them at the major league level is a handful of at bats scattered across a few weeks.

The Neifi's and Womack's of the world have proven themselves time and time again that they are poor major league ballplayers, yet Dusty gives them every chance in the world to prove their failures again. Even Tony Womack admitted it when he said he signed with the Cubs because he knew that he would get a better chance to play here than anywhere else.

What on earth could be the downside to letting Theriot play? Sure, he might not turn out to be anything special, be we already know the other options are aweful.

Its just more examples that back up the facts: Dusty Baker will never give significant playing time to a rookie when he's got a mediocre veteran that he can rely on.

Its not a myth, and it doesn't matter who the General Manager is, it is simply what you get with Dusty Baker as a manager, and frankly, its not good for the Chicago Cubs.

It's shocking to see the news that the Royals GM (Baird) was fired.

I mean, I guess it was a little odd when they started interviewing for his replacement last week and began talking about Baird like he had died. But for him to actually get fired...it's just so sudden.

I mean right at the very end, when they actually fired him, that part was sudden. (name the movie this was paraphrased from for $.10)

That's why I cringed when the Cubs invited Marquis Grissom to spring training... thankfully he retired. Then, they signed the Reds castoff Tony Womack to a AAA deal... and here we are, again using a mediocre-at-best veteran who absolutely does not figure in the Cubs' chances to win a World Series... but that's so typical of this organization. You just knew, knew, that if the Cubs signed a guy like Womack, who couldn't find work anywhere else in MLB, it was just a matter of time before he was in the starting lineup. His flash-in-the-pan start has probably cemented him as a regular for the rest of the year.

Flertch, 433.

D'oh, I mean "Fletch"

"He was in intensive care for eight weeks!"

"I haven't thought about any selling because first and foremost you still have to get some time to fight back in [contention]," Hendry said. "I don't think there is any message that needs to be sent that, 'Oh, we're going to give up with 100 games left.'

= = =

70-41, a 102-win pace over a full season, just to reach 90 wins (which would be a first for Hendry). Positively delusional if he seriously believes what he's saying.

"Ahhhh..he'd been dying for years..."

Call me a Dusty apologist, but name an available manager that could win consistently with Walker/Mabry/Restovich playing first base, Womack/Theriot/Hairston/Perez playing second, this year's Ramirez at third, rookie inconsistency in left and at short, and a rotation with two spots being occupied by Hill/Rusch/Guzman/Ryu. If they should give up the season and develop young pitchers, like I suggested above, fine. But do you honestly believe that a new manager could win with this roster? And don't say Piniella, as he hardly succeeded in developing young talent in Tampa.

Where can one get such a drug...that would make one so deluuuusional?

Stick a fork in 2006 Jim....

Point taken Mojo...but, it's not like the 2005 Cubs won 95 games, and are now racked by injuries. This is a team that underachieved last year, to a 79-83 record, and Dusty continues to bring nothing to the table.
-forcing Patterson to hit leadoff
-forcing Hawkins to close
-jamming Neifi, Hollandsworth, Lenny Harris, ENRIQUE EFFING WILSON, and others down oour throats
-refusing to see the reverse split on Mike remlinger over his careeer
-refusing to platoon JJ against lhp, even though he can't hit lhp to save his life.

These are but a few transgressions....he isn't the root cause, but he ain't helping either.

Bob Howry was on WSCR today and he chanted the Cubs Mantra "2005 Astros, 2005 Astros".
Next time Hendry, Dusty or any Cub says that I wish the interviewer would point out "who are the 2006 Cubs equivalent of Petitie, Oswalt and Clemens ?"

Shut the hell up about the 2005 Astros already, for christ sakes.

BWWWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA-HAHAHAHA!!!

You tell 'em Jacos!!!!!

Jim Hendry is a master when it comes to giving away top talent...It's also clear that his coaching staff is unable to bring out the best in emerging stars...check out this update on Corey Patterson...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/scorecard/mlbne...

Tuesday, May 30, 2006

Patterson the offensive and defensive hero for O's

{...Baltimore, MD (Sports Network) - Corey Patterson blasted home runs in consecutive at-bats and prevented the tying run with a leaping catch over the center-field wall for the game's final out, as the Baltimore Orioles began a 10-game homestand with a 7-5 victory over Tampa Bay...}

Jones has a whopping 32 ABs vs. lefties this year. Wow, stop the presses, that's why the team stinks.

"Its just more examples that back up the facts: Dusty Baker will never give significant playing time to a rookie when he's got a mediocre veteran that he can rely on."

Is that why Cedeno has played almost every game at SS?

Other than Dontrelle Willis, what "top talent" has Hendry "given away"? Is Patterson really top talent based on two months? Is Nolasco? Pinto? Mitre?

What about the top talent he got for the likes of Choi, Hill, B.Harris, F. Beltran, et al (Lee, Ramirez, Lofton, Nomar, Murton).

Hendry's made some bad moves, but let's not say he's the master of giving away "top talent," Sox Boy.

Center Fielder Corey Patterson is being paid $2.8 Million this year by Baltimore...Jim Hendry is paying the underperforming Juan Pierre about twice that salary...And Baltimore's hitting coach really worked some magic with Patterson who is playing everyday now...These numbers aren't bad at all...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile...

Corey Patterson | CF

AVG .291 | HR 7 | RBI 20 | OBP .336 | SLG .507

For every fan clamoring for Ryan Theriot (think about that for a second), you'd have another wondering why they didn't get a better veteran when/if he floundered. So you can't necessarily blame a team for going with what they feel is a proven commodity. Actually, wait, yes, you guys can. And will. And have done ad nauseum.

Pete?
Proven commodity?
So its better to have a proven shitty commodity than the unknown?

At least you'd know if you gave him some pt.

Future Hall of Famer John Koronka today

IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA
J. Koronka 2.2 11 7 7 0 3 1 4.87

why do people think ryan theriot is anything but auggie ojeda with a touch more speed? he has never shown anything at any level of baseball besides he can hit singles, take an occasional walk, and has decent speed (but not big base stealing speed). his lack of power isnt just bad, its juan pierre bad...and he doesnt have juan's speed. if he only had more speed or had at least 10HR/30double power he'd be a guy worth talking about. his glove at SS is the only thing that's kept him in the game this long.

theriot isnt a prospect...he's middle IF bench...he's a defensive sub...he's a pinch runner. he's had 1500+ ab's behind him to prove he's not...

It is assinine to be arguing whether Ryan Theriot or Tony Womack should be playing 2nd base or carrying on debate whether Michael Restovich should be handed playing time in the outfield or first base. The POINT is that the three names of Theriot, Womack and Restovich are microcoism for what is PATENTLY WRONG with this organization, maninly the LEVEL OF FRIGGIN TALENT !!! The Cubs are in 5th place and 12 games under .500 for a REASON. And that REASON is that the roster options SUCK !!! My Lord, some of you need to step back and examine what it is you are debating. Ryan Theriot?!?! Michael Restovich?!?! Tony Womack!?!? John Mabry?!?!? Neifi Perez?!?! Etc.

for those that like stats and not "scouting" of what a person does in real life...

1665ab 448h 72double 12triple 5hr 99sb 42cs
.269/.353/.336

and that's in the minors...his major league shots look much worse, but seriously...what is anyone expecting out of this guy with scouting reports AND numbers saying some pretty bad things about his abilities.

the only thing not coming through in those stats is why he's employeed...he plays middle IF.

Are those Theriot's stats crunch?

To quote Herm Edwards "You play the game to win" I dont mind if they see if they can salvage the season before the ASB. What will upset if they do what they did last year and pretend there in it till mid-august. Hendry needs to realize if(most defintaly when) they start to sell that Pie wont be ready until 2007 and then go out and get a CF and groom Pie to be the RF in 08. Maybe a Pierre and Williamson to the Sox for Anderson and a AA reliever if Pierre starts hitting and Anderson doesnt. Anderson is going to be a GG CF and a .300/.350/.500 hitter with about 20-25 HR pop. Also that for 07 you will need a RH platoon partner for JJ (Walker for Diaz and C+ level pitching prospect). Also you need to gauge Ram's intrest in returning if he is inclined to opting out of his deal put him on the block and see what you can get for him if LAAA gets back in it they will need a bat see if there interested in a Ram and Epat for Kendrick, Mcpherson, and Joe Saunders deal. Yes he has been our best 3b since Matlock but I would rathere get something for him then nothing. I believe his deal includes a no-arbirtation clause if he does opt out.

Lets not even start the back stepping on Corey Patterson now guys. He had to go, he needed a change of scenery and different coaches.

I am glad it is working out with him so far, but I don't miss him one single bit. He was never going to amount to anything in this organization with it's swing early and often approach.

I love his SB rate now. What is it 17 SB's only 1 time caught stealing? And his strike out rate has dropped dramatically. Still isn't walking any more but he is cutting down his strikeouts.

...I'm just asking because Theriot has a whopping 13 ab's last year, and a few this year.
Kinda hard to gauge the stats when the sample size is so small.

Hell....I'd rather see Eric Patterson at this point than Neifi or Womack!

This season is shot, why not evaluate the younger, cheaper players instead of forcing the crappy aging veterans down our throats?

The Cubs gave Shawon Patterson over 1,600 major league at bats to prove himself. Corey Dunston returned the favor by being lazy, disinterested and just plain awful. Good riddance.

Criminy. Ryan Theriot is a minor league stiff. We might as well call up David Kelton and Calvin Murray and give those stiffs a shot too.

Let it go!

I'm watching the Rangers and Mariners on the ticket and the Rangers broadcasters are reporting that Phil Nevin has been traded to the Cubs for future considerations....

I'm sure we'll hear more later today

To wit, "younger" and "cheaper" does not equate to being any good and worthy of a major league shot in the case of Ryan Theriot and Michael Restovich. In the case of Restovich, quick check of the stats shows that the Minnesota Twins gave him multiple big league shots. Last time I checked the Twins were absolutely starved for offense, so it's not a ringing endorsement of Restovich that they let him go for nothing over the winter.

Phil Nevin is a Cub?

This move, if it makes sense ever, should have been done a month ago...

Thanks, Jim.

I'm watching the Rangers and Mariners on the ticket and the Rangers broadcasters are reporting that Phil Nevin has been traded to the Cubs for future considerations....

I'm sure we'll hear more later today

phil nevin to cubs?!?! wow.

and it didnt even cost j.hairston...weird.

I should have posted the link: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

September 2014
SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
31123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
2829301234

Cubs Blogosphere

X
  • Sign in with Twitter