Dusty Watch 2006

I suppose many of you have seen the reports that Florida Marlins manager Joe Girardi got into it with the Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria over the weekend. The story goes that Girardi told Loria to basically shut it when Loria decided to heckle an umpire over some questionable balls and strikes calls. Of course you have to believe there's been some tension leading up to that point as that hardly seems enough to warrant what supposedly happened afterwards. The story goes that the discussion got even more heated after the game and there's a rumor floating that the Marlins were ready to announce Girardi being fired as the press room they use for such things was being set-up in anticipation of the announcement. Of course no announcement came, but the conspiracy theorists out there will certainly speculate that Girardi could be on a path to get himself fired in anticipation of taking over the Cubs this off-season. Well Girardi was happy to squash those rumors today, saying that he loves living in Florida and has no desire to leave for the Cubs right now.
''I am still the Marlins' manager, [and] I plan on being the Marlins' manager for a long time. People like to speculate that I am going to Chicago." ''If I was going to go to Chicago, I wouldn't have sold my house [in the north suburbs]. I have property there that we've kept there for a long time. I don't have a house there; I sold my house, my kids are enrolled in school in South Florida. I enjoy jumping in my pool every day. It's a nice life.''
Well maybe there's an out clause or a super-secret blood oath handshake?
''There are no outs. I have a three-year deal. No handshake agreement, no elbow rubbing, no kissing, nothing. Why would any club hire someone who had a handshake agreement that they could get out? Because you would know their heart's not in it. I think the one thing that you know about my heart is that it's about winning.''
Well there you have it, of course getting yourself fired might solve all that. Some other quick notes after the jump... - Juan Mateo will be back into the rotation on Saturday versus the Rockies if he's not needed in relief for the Brewers series. - Sean Marshall will go on a rehab assignment this weekend and Wade Miller will have another rehab start as well. One will pitch with the AA Jaxx, the other with the AAA Iowa Cubs. - Barrett Watch: He's up to 339 plate appearances, he would need 347 at this point to qualify for the batting title (you need 3.1 PA per game your team plays). If he did qualifty, he would be 4th in the race right now, 11 points behind Freddy Sanchez and a couple points behind Chipper Jones and Miguel Cabrera with Nomar Garciaparra and Chase Utley within striking distance. If he stays in the top of the order with limited off-days, he should be able to qualify.

Comments

Two other things about the Giradi situation that you failed to mention. 1 - Hendry likes Dusty, which could mean that we will have a couple of more years with Dusty as the manager. 2 - Even if, and right now that is a very big if, Dusty is fired Hendry may not go after Giradi as the next manager.

Even though I would love to see Giradi managing the Cubs next year, my gut feeling is that Dusty will be back for at least one more year. Hendry has stuck with him this long and the team is playing the best it has played in probably two years right now. Combine that with the injuries that we have had and Hendry/Dusty have the perfect built in excuse. I don't like the moves that Dusty makes, even though I am not a big "stat" guy, but he does have a track record of winning. His first 2 years with the Cubs were pretty good seasons.

I look for a change in the coaching staff, possibly Rothschild and Clines. I could see Dusty getting one more year and then see what happens.

Well Giradi had to deny this if he wanted any of his players to listen to him and as for selling his house if you cant live in the Chicagoland area during the summer than part-time resindence isnt a great idea. With the season gone Barrett should be hitting leadoff until he qualifies for the race.

Joe is required to say things like that. My mother sold her house and is still living in the same city. Selling a house doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot about where you live.

All that being said, getting Girardi probably won't happen.

It would be a travesty if Wade Miller started at all this year. He is not part of next year's plan (at least I hope not) and we need to continue to see the youngsters. The biggest benifit in trading Maddux was seeing what the kids can do and getting them experience. Just ask the Tigers about the benefit of doing this.

TJ-

Great post!! Exactly right....let's evaluate Marmol, Marshall, Mateo, and Hill the rest of the year.

Wade Miller...give him a contract guaranteeing an invite to spring training, and thats it..

From this weeks BA's Prospect Hot Sheet

Allesandro Maestri, rhp, Cubs (Short-season Boise): The first pitcher ever signed out of Italy is showing he is more than a novelty. The 21-year-old reliever has allowed just two earned runs in his last 17 innings and boasts an impressive 26-8 strikeout-walk ratio in 30 innings this season.

AZ Phil, closer at Peoria next season?

Does any one see this team finishing 32-18 in the remainder 50 games?
Me neither, at that .560 clip they will be .500 for the season.

Dusty will be gone, Johnny Cakes will come down from the booth and be the new manager.

Rob G.:
"Of course no announcement came, but the conspiracy theorists out there will certainly speculate that Girardi could be on a path to get himself fired in anticipation of taking over the Cubs this off-season."

Conspiracy theorists? Here at TCR? No way...

Just another a round about FIRE DUSTY story by the media that is much ado about nothing. Shocking...

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2...

Holly to the Reds for a PTBNL, guess Denorfia wasn't cutting it. Why the hell don't they just play Freel everyday?

I wonder if the Indians will call-up Dubois to take Holly's spot...

Conspiracy theorists? Here at TCR? No way...

Do you actually enjoy reading TCR manny? You seem to have a very low opinion of everybody around here.

Now that would be sort of ironic, wouldn't it?

Fucking Hollandsworthless.....

Rob G.:
"Do you actually enjoy reading TCR manny?"

Yes, I like to converse with other diehard Cubs fans, but some times it is for comical relief.

"You seem to have a very low opinion of everybody around here."

Not everybody...:)

David Wright, arguably a better player than ARAM, signs a 6-year, $55M contract extention with the Mets.

Does this signing set the market for 3B, and discourage ARAM from opting out of his $11M deal for 2007?

Seamhead:
"Does this signing set the market for 3B, and discourage ARAM from opting out of his $11M deal for 2007?"

This was discussed in a prior thread, but Wright's contract has very little to do with ARAM's. Wright is under club control for 4 more years and the Mets could of paid him much less than they did. ARAM will undoubtedly void his deal and file for FA, as he can get more than $11 million per over the next 3 years on the open market. Now, it just comes down to how much of a hometown discount ARAM will give Hendry. I think Hendry gets him for an average of $13 million per.

Franklyn Guiterrez gets the call-up for the Indians, poor, poor Dubois.

and yes I'm kidding...

Did someone say Jason Dubois?

Bisons unleash a comeback for record books
8/9/2006

It really wasn't a very pretty effort. Until the ninth inning. And then patience paid off. A three-run home run by Jason Dubois in the ninth gave the Buffalo Bisons a 12-9 win over the Ottawa Lynx on Tuesday night.

That capped a seven-run final inning, erasing a 9-5 deficit as the 10,750 fans at Dunn Tire Park saw the biggest ninth-inning comeback in the ballpark's history.

http://tinyurl.com/psm5d

Rob,

Rotoworld thinks Franklyn Gutteriez will be the call-up and the Reds have been using Freel as their RF a majority of the time since I am sure what will only be called "the Lemon Trade" from now on. I think Holly was brought along to be a LBOTB (not as catchy as LOOGY) and to draw starts aganists the Clemens, Carpenter, Oswalt, and Z.

Seamhead,

Wright doesnt affect Ram because Wright was under NYM control for another 4 years and they werent going to overpay him. The only way this affects Ram is if LA3 or BOS wanted to give him a 5 or 6 year deal (which was unlikely before the Wright signing) then they would have to know that years 5 and 6 would have to be in the 16-18 mil range.

Manny, quick questions.

Given the choice, would you rather have Dusty back in 2007, or have Girardi replace him? If you had to choose one or the other, who would it be?

And more generally, assuming the Cubs miss the playoffs in 2006 and Hendry comes back in 2007, do you think Dusty should be the manager in 2007?

I'm not picking on you -- I'm genuinely curious how Dusty supporters think on these points.

Why is the concept of a hometown discount so difficult for some people to understand?

If ARam renegotiates with the Cubs, he almost certainly will not be a "hometown discount." If ARam takes his option, goes on the FA market, and then comes back to the Cubs for less money than other teams are offering, then yes, we can talk about a hometown discount. Along those same lines, DLee was NOT a hometown discount. He resigned when his value was high, at a fair rate with the only team he could negotiate with. While it is possible he might have made more money on the FA market, it wasn't a sure thing (particualrly in retrospect where he's missed almost the whole year with a wrist injury), thus it was NOT a hometown discount.

If you want to talk hometown discounts, look at guys like Brian Giles, Trevor Hoffman, and Brad Radke. Those guys were free agents and turned down more money from other teams to stay at home. Those guys took hometown discounts that were actually discounts because they wanted to stay with their current teams.

Freel has been getting pretty much every start in RF since the Kearns trade...he made an unbelievable catch last night..I'm sure it was on Web Gems.

As a big Dubois apologist from waaay back, I am surprised that the tribe didn't call him up.
20 HR, 79 RBI, and .500 SLG are pretty good #'s in the International League, and he could DH..play 1B in a pinch...

Freel's catch is here:
http://tinyurl.com/elozg

433:
"Given the choice, would you rather have Dusty back in 2007, or have Girardi replace him?"

Dusty.

"assuming the Cubs miss the playoffs in 2006 and Hendry comes back in 2007, do you think Dusty should be the manager in 2007?"

As I said at the beginning of the year in the roundtable discussion, I think Hendry and Dusty should be tied at the hip, and if the Cubs don't make the playoffs, they both should not be brought back. But, at this point, I say if Hendry comes back, Baker should come back too.

I'd like to know how Miller starting a few games in September is a travesty. And how it somehow blocks Marmol, Marshall, Hill, Mateo et al. Will maybe two missed starts by each really make a difference? Hill is a lock for the rotation if he keeps going like he is now. What's wrong with taking a look at Miller to see if he can help at all next year? They're already paying him, why not see what he's got?

Cubs press conference in October 2006

"I've called this press conference to announce our plans and direction for the 2007 season and beyond. As you know, I said at the All-Star break I was going to evaluate our team, coaches, roster and decide what changes needed to be made to right this ship that didn't sail too well in the season. I am announcing today that Dusty Baker will be with the Cubs in the 2007 season...as well as the 2008 season. I've always had the utmost faith and confidence in Dusty and believe he is the right man in the right place for the managerial job of the Cubs. Dusty did a tremendous job last years--the intangibles that can't be measured were tremendous. He kept this team together when they could have fallen apart. He was faced with many obstacles that no manager could overcome. He will not be punished for these obstacles. Dusty is a true leader....players love him and Dusty loves the city of Chicago. I have full faith that Dusty will lead this team to great things the next two years. With that I'd also like to announce that the entire coaching staff will be back for the 07 season. They too did a tremendous job getting the most out of our players and showing up for work. They will not be punished either. Don't look for any long term contract free agent signings...too dangerous and risky...instead we will get value--and sign players who want to play for the Cubs because they love the Cubs...not because it's the biggest paycheck.....and with that...any questions?"

I have a question:

that was funny...but seriously, who's managing the Cubs next year?

"Dusty is a true leader....players love him and Dusty loves the city of Chicago."
---

There's a typo there, it should read:

Dusty is a true leader....players love him almost as much as he hates the city of Chicago.

"I think Hendry and Dusty should be tied at the hip, and if the Cubs don't make the playoffs, they both should not be brought back. But, at this point, I say if Hendry comes back, Baker should come back too."

I don't get this logic. You believe Dusty and Hendry should be fire if the Cubs don't make the playoffs. Thus, you think it was a mistake to extend Hendry right? Why then would you compound that mistake with another mistake or to two wrongs make a right some how?

I agree with RobR here. One of the definitions of insanity is continuing to behave in the same manner while expecting different results. Giving both of these guys two more years fits that definition.

That said, who knows whether Baker or Hendry is solely the problem? But since Hendry's the boss here, he's the one who has to make the change.

Dusty is a true leader, and will lead players like Juan Pierre right out of Chicago if we don't extend his contract.

ROBR:
"You believe Dusty and Hendry should be fire if the Cubs don't make the playoffs. Thus, you think it was a mistake to extend Hendry right? Why then would you compound that mistake with another mistake or to two wrongs make a right some how?"

Who is saying that bringing back Baker is compounding the mistake? Who is saying Baker is "a wrong"? Not me. I think Hendry is the WRONG.

Thanks for the responses Manny. They triggered one more question though. You say that Hendry and Baker should be "tied at the hip" for 2007. So, if McPhail comes to his senses and fires Hendry this winter, you think Baker should go too?

"Who is saying that bringing back Baker is compounding the mistake?"
-

I'm pretty sure that just about every Cubs fan is saying that. There's still a small group of terrorists like yourself who support Dusty.

A note on Barrett. Technically he doesn't need that many plate appearances. If he falls short they give him 0fers until he qualifies he and he theoretically could still win the batting title. I think it happened with Gywnn once.

433:
"So, if McPhail comes to his senses and fires Hendry this winter, you think Baker should go too?"

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

"And then patience paid off. A three-run home run by Jason Dubois"

that sentence before his name is the closest dubois has ever come to patience.

hehe...

Manny, understanding that we are on opposite ends of the spectrum on the Baker opinion poll, could you, or anyone else answer these questions?

1)How do you explain Dusty's insistence on using Neifi Perez, Roberto Novoa, Freddie Bynum..Enrique Wilson..Todd Hollandsworth..etc?

2)How do you explain Dusty's completely ignoring Jacque Jones' split against LHP, and not platooning him?

3)Could you explain Dusty's problem with the double switch..why he can't seem to do it correctly?

4)Referring to Baffling Bob Novoa, how was Wuertz left at AAA all year pitching the way he was(very well), but Dusty runs Novoa out there 1-2 times a week with an ERA of 5.00!?? (career ERA around 4.95?_

5)Please explain Dusty not using Angel Guzman more after his strong 5 1/3 inning relief appearance vs the Tigers? At least, explain why sit the kid for 3 weeks and then send him down?

6)Could you explain Dusty's insistence on having low OBP players in the #2 spot? Perez, Cedeno, Izturis?

A note on Barrett. Technically he doesn't need that many plate appearances. If he falls short they give him 0fers until he qualifies he and he theoretically could still win the batting title. I think it happened with Gywnn once.

hmmm, that's an interesting twist I've never heard of.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average

Wikipedia concurs...
The Major League Baseball batting average championship (often referred to as "the Batting Title") is awarded to the player in each league who has the highest batting average with at least 3.1 plate appearances per game that his team has played during a season, though if the batting leader fails to meet the minimum number of plate appearances, the remaining plate appearances until qualification (502) will be theoretically be considered outs, and if the batting average is still the highest in the league, he will be awarded the title.

baker...girardi...baker...girardi...

gimmie another power bat, some health, a couple healthy starters to go with Z...hell, you can let len kasper manage for all i care.

i dont get the whole pining for ex-cubs to run the show thing...pipe dreams about maddux the pitching coach, girardi the manager, and ________ (fill in blank grace/sandberg) being the hitting coach.

if a buncha guys with no experience are what people want, what good do these people do to begin with and how important is it really?

It's pick on Manny Day!!! Wheeeee!!!"

lol...

Hendry will meet with Dusty this fall and offer him a one year extension at $ 1 million.

Dusty will scoff at this and pack his bags for Seattle.

Hendry will say he tried his best to resign Dusty but did not agree to terms.

Meet Bob Brenly your 2007 Cubs manager.

Yawn.

im not manny, but this one is easy...

"1)How do you explain Dusty's insistence on using Neifi Perez, Roberto Novoa, Freddie Bynum..Enrique Wilson..Todd Hollandsworth..etc?"

answer: the alternatives.

just because someone values the "undetermined prospect of youth" doesnt mean they're worth playing.

many people wanted to see what dubois could do, but even more people that are closely associated with tracking what he could do KNEW what he could do.

when you look at the choices, you gotta ballance it with the alternative. playing a kid vs. a vet for the sake of playing a kid who might have potential isnt simple as that. the potential a fan might hope for cannot make up for the lack of skills that people already know about. hope cannot replace what a person is/can do.

what's more disheartening that that list up there is the list of people who were "blocked" by those guys...its a rather crap lot of players, most of which are either not playing in the bigs or are working similar roles with other clubs.

about #4...hendry brings up the crew, baker just plays them (or not).

wuertz's pretty AAA numbers kinda hide the wild pitches and overall spot-missing he was doing early.

he's ironed them out quite nicely for what its worth.

Explain Novoa to me, Crunch.

..also, please explain having Neifi at 2B, and Walker at 1B instead of Walker at 2b, Mabry @ 1B?

Dusty Baylor:
"It's pick on Manny Day!!! Wheeeee!!!"

And that is different from which day? :)

ex cub factor...

294ab 81h 22-doubles 3hr 46bb 63k .276/.393-avg/ob%

he plays 2nd and occasionally a touch of 3rd (though weak armed).

he's bobby hill.

he's also in AAA for a reason...even through injuries to major-leaguers and ups/downs of josh barfield.

he's there cuz even though those numbers look pretty, he's a no-power mostly-2nd playing hitter who's lost his speed.

AAA is littered with these kinda guys...some would argue he should probally be on some team's bench, but well...its not like SD is holding him hostage in trade talks wanting the world for him.

I think the problem with the whole "alternatives" argument is that it presupposes that Dusty didn't play any role in having trash like Neifi, Hollandsworth, Novoa, etc. on the active roster in the first place. Comments by both Hendry and Dusty, however, suggest that Dusty is heavily involved in those roster decisions.

I'm know its foolish for me to continue trying to figure out this Dusty is partly responsible, but he shouldn't actually be held responsible unless someone else is too logic, but..

at this point, I say if Hendry comes back, Baker should come back too.

So Dusty should be fired if the Cubs don't make the playoffs, unless Jim Hendry gets to keep his job then Dusty should get to keep his job too.

Two Wrongs Make a Right?

Who is saying Baker is "a wrong"? Not me. I think Hendry is the WRONG.

So Baker isn't wrong, he just should be fired at the end of the season if the Cubs don't make the playoffs?

If Baker isn't wrong, then why should he be tied to Hendry's hip?

If in your mind Dusty would be the right manager if Hendry is allowed to stay, and if Hendry is the "wrong," then why on earth would you want to fire Dusty if there was a new GM?

"Explain Novoa to me, Crunch."

i dont understand...what about novoa...

"..also, please explain having Neifi at 2B, and Walker at 1B instead of Walker at 2b, Mabry @ 1B?"

who cares is my responce? mabry? seriously...does it matter?

you got a lefty 1st baseman who's not hitting his weight and a 2nd baseman in walker who's adequate at best vs. walker playing 1st and someone who can field playing 2nd.

if its mabry vs. neifi that's gonna sink a club or even remotely impact it...there's larger issues going on.

Bleeding Blue:
"So Baker isn't wrong, he just should be fired at the end of the season if the Cubs don't make the playoffs?"

Collateral damage. Hendry being the target.

"If Baker isn't wrong, then why should he be tied to Hendry's hip?"

A GM should be able to pick his maanger. If the new GM wanted Baker fine, but he should not be forced to take him. And with Baker not having a contract next year, it would be easy for a GM to pick his own maanger as buying out a contract wouldn't be an issue.

"If in your mind Dusty would be the right manager if Hendry is allowed to stay, and if Hendry is the "wrong," then why on earth would you want to fire Dusty if there was a new GM?"

Dusty doesn't have a contract after the the season, so he can't be fired.

"Who is saying that bringing back Baker is compounding the mistake? Who is saying Baker is "a wrong"? Not me. I think Hendry is the WRONG."

I am getting more confused.

You think Baker should be fired if the Cubs fail to make the playoffs, right? If the Cubs don't make the playoffs and Baker is not fired, doesn't this count as a mistake based on the opinion above?

If I have this wrong and Baker should ONLY be fired if Hendry is also fired, why? Does Dusty not manage as well if Hendry is no longer his GM? Are you only willing to accept Dusty's firing if at least it would get rid of Hendry? Do think it is just not fair that one man would be held accountable while the other is not?

I have your answer.

Chad is the manager next year...he said so himself.
-

As for the logic of Jacque Jones platooning......personally...and it's been decided I'm not very smart....the idea of platooning ANY position is the damndest thing I've ever heard.

Look at the other side of the equation (big word, I know).....
What if........JJ collapses against RHP, and his platoon lover collapses against LHP, so the combined averages of the platoon sucks the big one.
THEN...WHAT IF...... Chad or Baker...wait, Chad's too smart, he'd never do this....Baker decides the platoon is the RIGHT thing NOT to do, and plays JJ every day, and he takes a year to get back in the groove?

You have a .300 hitter in the f*7king lineup.......leave him alone and focus somewhere else...JJ is NOT the Cubs problem.

Sorry, but this is too many questions, I am going to have to call an end to this press conference. :)

No- according to Todd Walker, Wrigley and day baseball are the problem.

Bring in Sweet Lou before Washington or Philly signs him! We don't need the ultimate player's manager. That attitude doesn't work with the high priced Prima Donnas.

Thanks Manny.

I think I understand your point of view better. If you were the new GM would you keep Dusty?

I'm genuinely curious how Dusty supporters think on these points.

Does "supporters" really need to be pluralized?

RobR:
"If you were the new GM would you keep Dusty?"

Probally not. I think I wouldn't bring back him nor any of his staff. Not because of not having confidence in him, but just to start with a clean slate. Of course, that also depends on who else I could get as manager.

A GM should be able to pick his maanger. If the new GM wanted Baker fine, but he should not be forced to take him. And with Baker not having a contract next year, it would be easy for a GM to pick his own maanger as buying out a contract wouldn't be an issue.

Ah, so here is it. You DON'T actually think that Dusty should be Released/Fired/Terminated/Whatever, and you think it would be perfectly acceptable if Dusty were to return next year regarless of who is GM.

But lets take this a step farther, if Dusty is still the right guy for the job, then why not have McFail just extend his contract, and force a new GM to work with him for another couple of years?

Sure, its not traditional, but New GMs have been told to work with the current managers before. I mean if you want to talk tradition, while most GMs get to pick their manager, most GMs also get a much longer leash than the manager and get to pick at least 2 managers during their term.

BJS:
"There's still a small group of terrorists like yourself who support Dusty."

I guess Rob G. is only going to crack down on some negative attacks. But BJS, I am sorry you feel threatened by me and that I cause you terror. Hope it doesn't cause your nightmares.

Probally not. I think I wouldn't bring back him nor any of his staff. Not because of not having confidence in him, but just to start with a clean slate.

And this still wouldn't be true next year, even if Hendry is still there? The same core of players are still going to be there regardless of who is GM, so why wouldn't you still want a clean slate in the clubhouse next year?

For that matter, what on earth has Dusty done to deserve keeping anyone's confidence? Despite asking several Dusty supporters repeatedly, I still can't get an answer about what Dusty does to help or improve the Cubs.

Joey:

JJ is a f*cking .300 hitter vs. RHP..against LHP, he's hit .219 for his career...

Crunch...Neifi didn't field too well at 2B this year....not enough to offset his bat in the lineup in May:.230/.250/.295. Granted, Neifi had a pretty good June, but so did Mabry.

I guess I didnt understand putting a second baseman at 1B, instead of playing a first baseman there.

First, if was GM, I would fire Dusty. But I am not the GM, Hendry is, and Hendry likes Dusty. They have a compatible philosphy on the kind of players they like. I expect that Dusty will be back unless he find a job on the West Coast (Seattle?, Arizona?).

I have very little hope that Cubs will be a strong team the next two seasons. They could luck out and win a NL Cenral title as the teams in the NL central are all in flux, with Houston and St. Louis aging, and both Cincinnati and Milwaukee having flaws almost as big as the Cubs, but with little cash to fix them. But winning a pennant or world series, I don't think so. I don't like the contact, low-slugging, low-on base percentage hitters Dusty and Hendry will have playing center, 2b, and SS. I expect this season will be Jaques Jones's best season for us in right given his age. I don't expect the Cubs to get a Type A free agent (Soriano, Lee) to play left, but rather a class B type like Cliff Floyd or Trot Nixon, who they can sign with an injury discount. I see an offense built on the hope that the post wrist-injury Derek Lee will be as good as the 2005 pre-injury edition, which I strongly doubt). I expect them to build a starting rotation on the "hope" that the Prior of 2003 will return and provide 30 quality starts. This has been their pattern since the end of 2004 and they are to stubborn (they being Dusty and Hendry and McPhail) to imagine the possiblity that they are wrong.

i dunno if hendry/dusty really are as compatible and buddy-buddy as people think, nor do i think their player philosophy are similar enough to say they're on the same page all the time.

walker vs. hairston...hendry's hardon for r.theriot...dempster...etc etc.

i wouldnt take dusty's lack of unemployment as an indication that hendry/dusty are boys. hendry/mcphail are boys...dusty's just a 4m elephant in the room. get him outta the room and not much has changed except the room is less full of elephant.

the players are still there...what major change could be made getting rid of dust at this point? murton/pagan hitting 2nd? cedeno losing his job to neifi? anything that would be of any consequense or help to the club's current situation? he's gonna get paid no matter who the lineup jockey is.

JJ is a f*cking .300 hitter vs. RHP..against LHP, he's hit .219 for his career...
---
DUSTY BAYLOR
So let me get this straight, according to your logic, the following players are also worthless slugs and deserve to be platooned or traded:

PLAYER LIFETIME BA
Derek Lee .276
Aramis Ramirez .277
Michael Barret .263

Your logic is flawed. Too much emphasis in the game is on stats...in addition especially for the more dominant posters in here.

I say again.....I said it last year when we argued about the current "major league bunt for hits leader" Corey Patterson....baseball is NOT ABOUT STATS.

It SHOULD BE due to the sample size of games, AB's, etc, but it's not...or...if you're gonna use statsitics at LEAST use them within the context of some actual baseball knowledge.

Statistics can only be trusted when you understand casue and effect, and what happens when you extrapolate the numbers and the dynamic causes.

(DELETED)

my pick for manager...

darren daulton

if this club plans on spending more than a few hundred K on the next lineup jockey...at least make it interesting...DD!!!!

Lou P is not coming to the Cubs....he's no fool. He knows Wrigley is a place that anything of value goes to die. I don't think he wants to take on the goat.

well to be fair joey...j.jones really is that bad, and more importantly consistantly bad, verses the lefties.

that said, its not that many a/b's in the grand scheme of a full season. he'll see all of 130-150ab's vs. lefties at his current pace this year.

while i wouldnt straight platoon him, i would hold him out vs. tougher lefties, myself.

Sorry this evolved into a jump on Manny because he doesn't hate Dusty Baker thread. That's a shame, maybe we can shift focus onto what traits we want in our next manager or why we think Girardi would be good or bad for the job

I guess Rob G. is only going to crack down on some negative attacks.

Ergh, Argh!!! A) I do occassionally step away from the computer you know? B) If you want sympathy from the TCR collective, don't play the victim role. No one's buying it and it just annoys everybody. If you don't care about getting sympahy, then don't play the victim role either cause it's pathetic for a grown man.

(this goes for everyone)
I think I already said this but if you're going to call me out for not teliing people to cool off with the insults, don't expect me to say anything. I don't take kindly to this whole I'm the victim and I'm going to try and point out Rob's hypocrisy. If that's what you want to believe, I'm going to just let you go on believing that. If you want me (or other TCR writers) to do something about it, let us do it on our own terms or email us privately with your suggestions.

Crunch......there is some logic there.......but we're fooling ourselves if we think JJ's BA will improve by getting him less at bats, even if those at bats are against RHP.

It just doesn't work that way.

The best TEAMS are the ones who go with a lineup and stick with it. This constant juggling, on the field, off the field, down to AAAA, up to the big club...is maddening for a player.

Once a player loses the mental edge..begins to doubt himself, he's done. Rarely do they come back to form.

It happened to Corey PAtterson, and it might be happening to A-Rod.

THAT'S my concern for JJ..if we end up with a WORSE team due to the platoon idea, then it's not worth it.

My opinion. Talk amongst yourselves....gotta umpire a DH tonight.

Joey

while he might improve vs. lefties, it just doesnt seem likely at this point.

he's yet to get a hit vs. a lefty this year who gets 2 strikes on him. he really doesnt see them well for whatever reason.

he's a swinger (even vs. righties he doesnt walk), but being a swinger who's contact with lefties is as dismal as his has been...well it isnt promising.

an arguement can be made for a platoon for JJ, but sitting him vs. every lefty (especially when a team plays a lefty-heavy rotation like florida's at times for instance) wouldnt really work with a guy like him who's pretty much used to playing almost every day.

he's used to missing 10+ starts getting rest-days anyway...usually vs. lefties.

Joey:

1) JJ's stats would improve

vs. LHP:
.196/.212/.340

vs. RHP:
.321/.358/.555

Not only that, the Cubs would have someone in the lineup, Murton/Pagan, whose #'s are better against LHP, thus improving the lineup.

Baseball isn't all stats, but don't be obtuse about them either...geez.

well joey, since your acting like my one year olds who are in the how far can we test our parents mode until they scream at us, I deleted the end of your post.

It was a simple request, stop with the personal insults. I'll let a lot go by, but you obviously feel the need to mess with me. That's cool if that's the way you want to get your kicks.

I don't see why it's that hard to talk about baseball and the Cubs without continously insulting each other. I can live with the playful banter or the light-hearted jab between pals. But folks here are choosing to use the anonymity of the Internet to get out their aggression towards commenters whose opinions differ from their owns and do so by reverting to playgrounds insults.

This site has been better than that and should continue to be better than that.

Joey,

"The best TEAMS are the ones who go with a lineup and stick with it. This constant juggling, on the field, off the field, down to AAAA, up to the big club...is maddening for a player."

There's a major cause and effect flaw there, see if you can pick it out on your own. Also, there's no such thing as AAAA unless you mean KC and TB.

Crunch,

"an arguement can be made for a platoon for JJ, but sitting him vs. every lefty (especially when a team plays a lefty-heavy rotation like florida's at times for instance) wouldnt really work with a guy like him who's pretty much used to playing almost every day."

Your hypothesis is that he stays sharp for hitting righties by striking out against left handers? I've never heard that before, but I bet Dusty likes the sound of it.

I see Crunch's point about JJ not sitting everday, especially if he was still in the AL. But other than the blow to the ego, there's a good chance he'll still get into the game on a double switch or as a pinch-hitter in the NL.

I wasn't being facetious. Explain it to me. I mean there's been hundreds of successful platoon players throught-out the history of MLB. How is Jones special in that he needs to go 0-4 twice a week to mantain his hitting prowess against righties?

Rob G:
"I think I already said this but if you're going to call me out for not teliing people to cool off with the insults, don't expect me to say anything."

That is why I call it out as I don't expect you to say anything when it is directed at me. And as a "grown man" I can take it, but I think it is fair that if TCR is not going to say something, I might as well say something to defend myself or show call out the attack.

I can't foresee the future but I think it is possible that a player like Jones who is use to playing everyday could perform worse on the days he does play if went into a straight platoon. The hit to the ego would be one thing, the second would just breaking out of the routine of starting everyday along with messing with your swing. It's just a guess to be honest, he could really thrive in a straight platoon. I don't know.

I would definitely platoon him against MOST lefties, maybe give him a start if there are 3 or 4 in a row or against some of the soft-tossing lefties like Glavine that rely on their change-up and have never really dominated lefties over righties.

Liriano to DL:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

Now they are saying the pain has gone from his forearm to his elbow. Not good.

I don't think referring to Manny as a 'terrorist' was an attack. Just a quick way of describing his fanatic commitment to Dusty beyond all reasonable explanation, and his tendency to turn posts that aren't about Dusty into a soapbox for his one-man crusade. Sort of like people who throw paint on models. Aren't they terrorists?

"Your hypothesis is that he stays sharp for hitting righties by striking out against left handers?"

no, playing baseball is more than swinging a bat. i dont believe in a straight platoon for JJ. i dont believe in many straight platoons anyway, especially for a guy you know you want to go out there 130+ games ready to pull 9 innings.

the RF options outside of JJ are pagan, bynum, and evidently nevin. when JJ has seen a bulk of his time out there 2 of the 3 guys in that list have been out of the mix. bynum played like 5 or so games in RF. pagan's been getting shots there recently.

So when the guys on SportsCenter were talking about the Girardi issue, they mentioned something about Loria being incredibly frustrated with the team (implying he's been frustrated with Girardi's performance as well).

How can that be possible? When you set your payroll at a shade under $15 million, as an owner you pretty much give up any right to be frustrated with the season. Aren't the Marlins still pretty much in the Wild Card race? How coudl he be frustrated at all?

What Girardi has managed to do with that young team is exactly why the Cubs need him. The Cubs could have the youngest rotation in the majors next year, and having an expert game-caller managing the team might do them an awful lot of good.

FOR ALL FANTASY BASEBALL OWNERS:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

Some good news from the courts. A federal court ruled that online fantasy baseball buisnesses can use names and stats for free. Basically saying MLB does not won a players stats.

"Liriano to DL:"

Let the Gardenhire ruins young pitchers posts begin!

That is why I call it out as I don't expect you to say anything when it is directed at me. And as a "grown man" I can take it, but I think it is fair that if TCR is not going to say something, I might as well say something to defend myself or show call out the attack.

Pick a side, Manny. If you want to just defend yourself, fine by me. But don't call me out or TCR by saying we're not doing the job to your satisfaction. I told you that I'd do my best to take care of that stuff, hell I even defended you in the paragraph before and I've done it many times before.

If you want us to take care of it, I gave you a number of options, none of which were call me a hypocrite.

The Real Neal:
"I don't think referring to Manny as a 'terrorist' was an attack. Just a quick way of describing his fanatic commitment to Dusty beyond all reasonable explanation, and his tendency to turn posts that aren't about Dusty into a soapbox for his one-man crusade."

Terrorism from Wikipedia: "the intentional use violence or the threat of violence against one or more members of a general population to generate fear, cause disruption, and ultimately to cause the authorities of a population to comply with certain political, religious, ideological, or personal demands."

I don't recall ever threatening violence against BJS or anyone on here. If anything maybe BJS is the terrorist as he has said: "I seriously want to punch you in the throat" and "you could use a good old-fashioned throat punch".

um yeah, didn't we just get a lengthy comment about how the Twins were protecting his young arm by limiting his pitch counts?

just sayin'

You guys are forgetting the first rule of TCR.

Personal Attack are not OK - unless it is Manny making those attacks. Then Manny is just defending himself, even when he's the first person to call a name.

Its kind of like Germany was defending itself when it invaded Poland, except even Germany didn't play the victim when the Allies started marching on Berlin.

J. Pierre cf
C. Izturis ss
M. Barrett c
A. Ramirez 3b
J. Jones rf
P. Nevin 1b
M. Murton lf
R. Cedeno 2b

btw...all your moms wear combat boots.

Liriano's not excatly the picture of perfect health to begin with. His rather extensive injury history is pretty much the reason why the Giants got rid of him.

but Wood was ruined by Baker, right?

(okay I don't know if you ever said that bleeding blue, but others have)

Manny,

"The term "violence" also connotes an aggressive tendency to act out destructive behaviours."
Isn't causing meaningless arguments a destructive behavior, especially self-destructive in your case, when your agregiously wounded by these 'insults'? Are you not causing disruption? Are you not beseaching the authorities of this population to comply with peronal demands?

Anyway, he was making a metaphor. Look that one up on Wikipedia.

game preview up, let's end this pointless discussion por favor...

I don't think I've ever said it, but I think its rather foolish to say the large number of high pitch count outings thrown by both Prior and Wood in 2003 have had absoultely nothing to do with them being consistantly injured every year since.

Low pitch counts don't completely stop the threat of injury in any pitcher any more than High pitch counts cause injuries in every player.

But one injury prone pitcher getting hurt despite throwing few pitches doesn't in any way shape or form discredit the other evidence suggesting that high pitch counts increase the risk of injuries, particularly in young pitchers.

the list of pitcher he's ruined is a mile long...

there's...umm...

hmm...

okay i give up.

but well, he has ruined tons of pitchers, i believe i read something about that somewhere.

=p

Livan Hernandez
Mark Prior
one of the Oritz's

Is Francisco Weeked Liriano an anagram for Kerry Fainciscian Wood?

Actually KW's middle name is Lee and FL's middle name is Casillas (but if #34's middle name was the F bomb above, well I'm just saying'...)

In August of í98, he had sprained his right elbow, but worked through the pain over the season's final weeks. In his first outing of spring training '99, however, he tore a ligament in his right arm. Kerry was done for the year.

livan and ortiz?

no and no.

=p

russ, btw...who went on to throw 2+ 200ip seasons for bobby cox.

livan, who went on to throw 700+ip over 3 seasons for frank "master of discipline" robinson.

He had to have been kidding about Livan.

Dusty wrecklessly overpitched Prior in 2003.

He made a real good attempt at taking away Latroy Hawkins' manhood by mercilessly using him as a closer even though everyone (except Dudsy) knew he couldn't do it.
He may as well have pulled LaTroy's pants down for him and dragged him out onto the mound in the 9th inning. That's how sad the whole thing became.

the same latroy who's a perfect setup man?

the same one that's done WORSE since leaving the cubs on 2 separate clubs in the exact role he was supposed to be better in cuz of some magical 8th inning thing that makes his stuff suddenly better than if he throws it in the 9th?

14 years of doing this and dusty has a "maybe" with prior's use behind it...and this injury prior has isnt even a fatigue injury or a surgery requiring injury (for now).

JACQUE JONES Stacks up Well against 2006 FA Signees

Taking a page from MANNYTRILLO, who has a lot of time on his hands to look up anything and everything, I have compiled BA's of the OFers that the Cubs could have considered signing, I did NOT consider the couple FA's like Brian Giles who never would have considered coming here, etc. Let's be realistic.

Anyway, here is where they currently stand. If you want to look up OBP, SB, K's - feel free...

Endy Chavez w/the Mets is the cream of the crop, and JJ is a close second. All of you JJ haters, read it an weep. ITs not my fault that Dusty has him bat so much against lefties!

Burnitz, Jeromy (and sucks, than you Jim Hendry for passing)
.254
CHC
PIT
Byrnes, Eric
.263
BAL
Cedeno, Roger
Not Playin'
STL
Chavez, Endy
.289
PHI
NYM
Conine, Jeff
.271
FLA
BAL
Encarnacion, Juan
.269
FLA
STL
Hyzdu, Adam
NP
BOS
TEX

Jackson, Damian
.244
SD
WSH

Jones, Jacque
.280
MIN
CHC

Perez, Timo
.240
CWS
CIN
Sanders, Reggie
.238
STL
KC
Tucker, Michael
Not Playing
PHI
WSH

"wrecklessly overpitched"

What a silly comment. Talk about a matter of opinion. You state it like its fact. Over-pitching is all a matter of opinion. In your world maybe but not in Nolan Ryan's world or Fergie Jenkins world. But you know better I'm sure.

And as far as the whole Hawkins thing went, what was he supposed to do? Just not pitch anyone?

JESUS! If you're going to rip Baker, make it about something he did wrong.

#6 of 93: By Bogey (August 9, 2006 12:32 PM)
From this weeks BA's Prospect Hot Sheet

Allesandro Maestri, rhp, Cubs (Short-season Boise): The first pitcher ever signed out of Italy is showing he is more than a novelty. The 21-year-old reliever has allowed just two earned runs in his last 17 innings and boasts an impressive 26-8 strikeout-walk ratio in 30 innings this season.

AZ Phil, closer at Peoria next season?

---

BOGEY: The Cubs had to beat-out the Twins and the Mariners to sign Alessandro Maestri, who has been Italy's prized baseball prodigy for several years. He spent several years attending Italy's national baseball academy and has had extensive International experience pitching for Italian National teams (at various levels) since he was 12.

He could be the closer at Peoria next season. Or he could be a rotation starter, too. He has been throwing a low-90's two-seamer (sinker) and a slider for quite a while now, but has since added a third pitch (change) to his repertoire. If he masters the third pitch, then I think it's far more likely that he will be used a starter next season. He was moved from the bullpen to the rotation at T & A San Marino (Italian Serie A1 League) last season, so he has experience doing both. He could possibly even get jumped to Daytona in 2007.

Then again, Maestri may be under pressure to return home and play there. Having played baseball professionally in the U. S. in the Cubs organization, he would be the Roger Clemens of Italy. I know Maestri has said that he enjoys playing in Boise because there are no distactions, but LHP Masanori Murakami (the first Japanese national to play in MLB in 1965) went home after only a couple of years in the U. S. because he was under pressure to play professionally in Japan. It was quite a few years after that before another Japanese player "defected" to the U. S. But hopefully, Maestri will stay in the U. S. and continue to climb the organizational ladder with the Cubs.

In case you think baseball is not taken seriously in Italy, it is. There are professional leagues there (including a "major" league known as Serie A1), and interest in baseball is likely to increase what with Italy's participation in the WBC last March (Maestri was a member of Team Italy).

Cheers AZ Phil, I was actually going to throw out what the possibility would be that the organization would move Maestri to a rotation slot, but then reconsidered because I didn't think the Cub brass would consider it due to his proficiency to get the ball over the plate. It would also be nice to have a closer who didn't feel the need to put a runner or two on base via the walk before finally deciding to go ahead and close the game out. I'm lobbying for him to come to Peoria though so I can see him pitch while he roles through town to face Justin Upton and the Silver Hawks.

"livan and ortiz?

no and no.

=p

russ, btw...who went on to throw 2+ 200ip seasons for bobby cox.

livan, who went on to throw 700+ip over 3 seasons for frank "master of discipline" robinson"

Oh, I hadn't realized that innings pitched was the only way to evaluate the health and ability of a pitcher. Too bad we don't have any other measures like ERA or radar guns to evaluate that sort of thing.

Thanks for clearing that up. Hey, and don't worry about not getting a quarter for that last tooth you put under your pillow, sometimes the tooth fairy get's sick and takes a day off.

E-Man-
You have the wrong stats on Eric Byrnes and Juan Encarnacion

A little more in depth?

2006 stats:
Jacque Jones
.285/.318/.493 18Hr, 55RBI, 6/7 SB

Juan Encarnacion
.285/.318/.470 18HR, 62RBI, 4/8 SB

Eric Byrnes
.285/.343/.528 18HR, 46RBI, 16/17 SB

Jacque acquits himself nicely there, but not exactly a runaway winner either.

Endy Chavez??
.299/.345/.439, 2HR, 28RBI, 8/10 SB
A blind squirrel finds a nut? With at least 130 AB's less than the other 3..

Read 'em and weep??
C'mon now....

Lou P. would prefer a team in the NL. If Dusty is the highest paid manager in baseball Lou's contract shouldn't be a problem. Player's payroll, which was a major issue in Tampa is not an issue. Spring training in Arizona is not a problem. Lou would toss the goat into the outfield like a base. My pick for GM would be Steve Stone. He was right, again. Wood will be selling cars soon. What he needs to do is quit sniping from the safe sidelines of a radio show and put his money where his mouth is.

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  • QuietMan 8 hours 1 min ago view
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