Roger and Me

We have a small disparity in experience between our two starting pitchers tonight. Let's look at the tale of the tape:
Clemens  vs. Mateo:
  681 &nbsp&nbsp GS &nbsp  1
  345 &nbsp&nbsp W &nbsp&nbsp  1
  4552   K &nbsp   3
  4764.2 IP &nbsp  7
No pressure kid, good news is you have Blanco behind the plate to make sure you throw strikes. The other good news is the Astros offense is just about as pathetic as ours. The bad news is you have Blanco behind the plate and he has to hit. Go Cubs! GAME ONE HUNDRED-NINETEEN IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CHICAGO CUBS (50-68 (Div) 5th - 12.5 GB; (Wild Card) 12th - 11.0 GB) AT HOUSTON ASTROS (57-61, (Div) 3rd - 5.5 GB; (Wild Card) 6th - 4.0 GB) The Juice Park, 7:05 pm CDT Weather: Roof Closed TV: WGN, DirecTV 741 Radio: WGN, XM 186
Roger Clemens, RHP 4-4, 2.24 ERA, 60.1 IP 50 K, 14 BB, 3 HR 280/315/431 sgainstJuan Mateo, RHP 1-0, 2.57 ERA, 7 IP 3 K, 5 BB, 0 HR 223/268/339 against

*Juan Pierre, CF #Cesar Izturis, SS #Angel Pagan, LF Aramis Ramirez, 3B *Jacque Jones, RF *John Mabry, 1B Ronny Cedeno, 2B Henry Blanco, C Juan Mateo, P Wily Taveras, CF Craig Biggio, 2B *Mike Lamb, 1B #Lance Berkman, RF *Luke Scott, LF *Aubrey Huff, 3B Adam Everett, SS Brad Ausmus, C Roger Clemens, P

Cubs vs Clemens: Jacque Jones: 7-26, 269/367/577, 4 K, 4 BB, 5 2B, 1 HR Michael Barrett: 4-23, 174/208/174, 2 K, 1 BB, 0 XBH Aramis Ramirez: 7-21, 333/391/476, 3 K, 2 BB, 1 HR Juan Pierre: 7-19, 368/368/526, 0 K, 0 BB, 2 XBH Neifi Perez: 3-18, 167/167/167, 4 K, 0 BB John Mabry: 3-16, 188/235/188, 5 K, 1 BB Cesar Izturis:3-11, 273/273/364,1 K, 0 BB, 1 2B Astros vs. Mateo: No Astros with more than 10 AB's
Pagan batting third, huh? That's, um, interesting.
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Comments

...and I've inherited the Earth

lets count the ways:

Roger Clemens vs Juan Mateo?
Blanco with an infield hit
An Angel batting third?
JPierre blasting a leadoff triple
Izzy with an RBI single
Cedeno with a HR
Dusty admits that he pulled this lineup out of his tush.

the world is upside down and inside out...

Most......

Pathetic.....

Lineup....

EVER.....!!!

Every time I've read that aboutone of Dusty's lineups the team has had a good offensive night. Keep it up!

Yes, Vince Most Pathetic lineup ever...

Good call Walt...

Go Cubs (up 5-2 in 5th)

"Yes, Vince Most Pathetic lineup ever...

Good call Walt...

Go Cubs (up 5-2 in 5th)"

OK Manny. They happen to score 5 runs in the game. I'm pretty sure they can't do that over 162.

still counting the ways:

JJones with a 445 foot HR over Tal's Hill after getting hit in his first at bat.
Juan Mateo plunks Clemens with a pitch, and Clemens doesn't whine about it...but just strikes back (hey, that's not being meek!)
Dusty Baker takes Mateo out after plunking Clemens (via a pinch hitter)
Clemens gets warned but not ejected for intentionally throwing (see above) twice at Ryan Theriot and actually hitting him on the 2nd up and in pitch.
Theriot then steals 2nd base (again, actions speaking louder than words?)
Clemens then throws the water cooler before leaving the dugout.

Neifi Perez sitting on the bench and pretending he's a utility player.

Vince,
They don't do it for 162 because we don't bitch about it every game. I'm sure it will work if we put our minds to it!

so if the reason that Mateo was taken out was because his manager didn't want Clemens to throw at his pitcher, can someone explain to me why we're now losing 6-5?

btw, patterson vs. farnsworth in the 8th of orioles-yanks

patterson has an awful weak swing at an 0-2 very high fastball. wow.

I booed patterson mercilessly at fenway on sunday in a terrible, sloppy, 3:40 hour AL game. he hit a home run but swung badly at first pitches his other times up.

oh, corey.

Murton leads off the 9th with a home run off Lidge to tie the game.

Yeah, he's hopeless.

And Neifi's the only one who hasn't played....

lord save us all!

Thank goodness "Neifi the contact hitter" was there to do his thing in the 11th -- make weak contact and hit into an inning-ending DP.

From last night's discussion -- that's what I meant when I said a contact hitter with a crappy BA and OBP is not worth anything.

I can't believe we have to watch that bum for another year. Augh!

Great game.............stop bitching and enjoy it!

Great game.............stop bitching and enjoy it!

post of the year.

Looks like Hill will pitch the 17th, so which Iowa Cub is getting the 12:30 am wakeup call with orders to catch the next flight to Houston?

Matt freakin' Murton!

Probably Jerome Williams. He's on the 40 man roster, threw 70 pitches on Sunday in a short outing.

Cubs win the nothing! Cubs win the nothing! Holy cow!

Best meaningless game in Cubs history?

Anyway...when is the last time two games in one night have gone into the 16th? Rockies, Diamondbacks 1-1 in bottom of 16.

Wow, what a game!

Phil,
Pat Hughes said the last time the cubs used 25 men in a game was 1986 but it was suspended and so there were differnet men on the roster. How does that work? Also, being a Cubs fan, I found myself wondering, what if we had an injury? I assume we would have had to play a man down on defense, but what about batting, would we have had to take an out every time around the order? Or would it have been a forfeit? I assume the All Star Game a few years ago isn't a good example (declaring a draw).

"what if we had an injury? I assume we would have had to play a man down on defense, but what about batting, would we have had to take an out every time around the order? Or would it have been a forfeit?"

Almost certain it would be a forfeit, I think you must have 9 men.

Matt Murton with the game tying and game winning RBI.

Mateo, Aardsma, Guzman, and Hill combine for 10 2/3s Innings of 2 run, 7 hit baseball.

These Cub rookies are going to make the rest of the season really fun to watch.

And in those 10.7 innings, they also recorded 9 Ks and only 2 BB. Fantastic numbers from the young guns tonight.

Im sure the batting team would have no problem with the cubs playing with 8 guys in the field but I doubt that would be allowed.

Astros 2nd 18 inning loss this season.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06148/693954-6...

It would infact be a forfeit.

MLB Rule 4.17
A game shall be forfeited to the opposing team when a team is unable or refuses to place nine players on the field.

The same section of the rule book also deals with the 25 players used in 86. Players added to the roster between the time a game is suspended and when the game resumes can be used as substitutes in the game, even if the player they replaced on the roster had already been used in the game.

numbers from the young guns tonight.

It's Cubs Young Guns and TCR gets all profits from it's use. :)

Wade Miller is supposed to pitch for AAA tomorrow, otherwise it's Ryan O'Malley's turn. Chris Shaver is due to start for AA. Sean Marshall didn't go too long on Saturday I believe.

And how is this for amazing, the Cubs game isn't even the last one of the night!

The D-backs just took a 2-1 lead in the top of the 18th in Colorado. (XM 188 for those of you interested)

2 18 inning games in one day, when was the last time that happened?

Fred Bynum is back. He had 2 of Iowa's three hits tonight. Felix Pie had the other one, a triple.

How soon til Dusty starts up the "Murton ain't cuttin' it" routine again?

"2 18 inning games in one day, when was the last time that happened?"

According to ESPN, it's the first time in MLB history that two games in one day went 18 or more innings.

I said in the chat that I wanted the Cubs to be part of history during this pathetic season....now they are...ahh, the memories this will invoke. (memories that will last about 12 hours)

That was only the second time Clemens has been HBP in his career? (According to the Trib: http://tinyurl.com/n7bk6) That's kind of surprising, considering the vengeance that was supposed to be called down on him in the NL.

Izturis's numbers with the Cubs are:

275/339/314 with 5 RBIs in 14 games.

other than his slg% it would seem that me, Chad, and the other pro- Izturis posters were right.

other than his slg% it would seem that me, Chad, and the other pro- Izturis posters were right.

You can't be serious. Check out these numbers:

347/373/490

That's Ronny Cedeno through his first 14 games this year.

Or these:

360/448/560

Ryan Theriot through his 10 games this year.

Wow! The Cubs middle infield is loaded with hitting tallent!

Jeez, they hate ARod in New York. (www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/with_alex_there...)

ARod is hitting .286 with 25 HR and 86 RBI. He has a .387 OBP and a .508 SLG% In his last 10 games he is hitting .324. Those numbers would look mighty good for a Cubs SS.

Much has been said here and elsewhere about ARod not wanting to leave NY, but why would he want to stay? No matter what he does (including winning an MVP award), he is summarily boo'd by the fans, killed by the NY sports writers, and at times, even ravaged by the Yankee announcers. His team captain hasn't had his back, his manager has questioned his toughness, and his owner at times has refused to call him by name.

Staying in NY does nothing for his endorsement deals. He could easily replace those deals in Chicago and be just as involved in the community as a Cub as he has been as a Yankee.

I think the argument about him not wanting to come to the Cubs because they are not a contender is also false. Remember, this is a guy that signed to play with the Rangers. I'm convinced that ARod would be willing to come to the Cubs if there was some plan in place to contend. Adding ARod would be a big part of that plan.

If ARod could be convinced that he would be in the same position as Curt Schilling was when he went to Boston and helped them win a WS, I think the notion of joining the Cubs would be appealing to him. ARod is all about his image and his legacy. If he could lead the Cubs to the WS, his legacy would be cemented. It's getting cemented in NY too, but for all of the wrong reasons.

Or Neifi's 371/400/548 in 2004. Were the people who were ecstatic over that also right?

And, without last nights 4/8 performance, he was hitting .232...but let's just wait until he gets more than a week's worth of at-bats before we christen or crucify Izturis.

Neifi lite!!!!

Thank you, NY Post!! Keep greasing those wheels. That's the beauty on the NY media they can make deals for their teams with their constant badgering.

Kudos to Manny, DFA Neifi, Trans, Mike C and the rest(on Gilligans Island) who were on the parachat way past their bed time. If I could only made it one more inning, fun game and fun 20 questions and hangman.

Why did Dusty bat a rh(Theriot) vs Clemens last nite?

Why did Dusty bat a rh(Theriot) vs Clemens last nite?

Isn't that obvious? Dusty has it in for Theriot, and wanted to see him get beaned by Clemens.

#10

Did I miss something? Did someone say Murton was hopeless?

I hear they called up Ryan O'Malley to pitch today....wonder which wonder Rookie they sent down?

#20 "what if we had an injury? I assume we would have had to play a man down on defense, but what about batting, would we have had to take an out every time around the order? Or would it have been a forfeit?"

Almost certain it would be a forfeit, I think you must have 9 men.
-

Actuallly no, that's not the case. They can FINISH with 8, but they have to START with 9.

Joey

MLB Rule 4.17
A game shall be forfeited to the opposing team when a team is unable or refuses to place nine players on the field.
---
I hate myself...

I was wrong.

I umpire in a semi-pro league in the midwest, and about 40 high school games a year.

In the semi-pro league we use MLB rules, with some exceptions. Bleeding Blue is right.....in MLB you have to finish with 9. Finishing with 8 is an exception for the semi-pro league.

Amanda:
"I hear they called up Ryan O'Malley to pitch today....wonder which wonder Rookie they sent down?"

They might put Eyre on the DL. He hurt his right hammy last night and he limped off the field badly. If not, Mateo looks like the obvious person to send down. The Cubs have an off day on Thursday and can go with a four man rotation and then in 2 weeks Mateo can come back with the expanded rosters.

And just an FYI, the Cubs have only 39 guys on the 40 man roster, so they can call up O'Malley and add him to the 40-man without cutting anyone.

Who the hell is Ryan O'Malley?

And why not brign Miller up so we can watch his shoulder explode on the same mound where he first hurt it.

Its all about symmetry!

So I was at the Iowa Cubs / Round Rock Express game last night. Overall, my impression was pretty pathetic--admittedly, small sample size city--but the way they played that game reminded me so much of the Cubs on a bad day. Swinging at everything, making lots of weak contact for easy outs, no patience, no runners on base until there were already two outs anyway. Meanwhile, the Express were much more persistent, forcing Les Walrond (who's he?) to throw lots of pitches and get in deep trouble in three out of six innings pitched. The fifth inning in particular was a merry-go-round... I think I saw all nine Express batters.

Felix Pie's triple was a softly-hit fly ball that looked to me like it was going to be caught (my angle was bad). He turned it into a triple with sheer hustle and speed, which was pretty exciting. Unfortunately, there were already two outs when this happened and the rest of his team couldn't get him home.

In general, it's really hard to have timely hitting when the only times you get anyone on base there are already two outs. I think this game was a perfect case study in how OBP wins games.

#20 of 45: By blockhead25 (August 16, 2006 12:52 AM)
"what if we had an injury? I assume we would have had to play a man down on defense, but what about batting, would we have had to take an out every time around the order? Or would it have been a forfeit?"

Almost certain it would be a forfeit, I think you must have 9 men.

---

BLOCKHEAD25: On defense, you just prop the injured guy up against the centerfield wall with an IV drip and keep on playin' with two outfielders covering the outfield.

Then you carry the injured player back the dugout when your team is batting, and then either have him "refuse" to take his AB (because he can't--in which case the plate umpire will order the pitcher to throw to an empty batter's box and will call all pitches thrown as "strikes" regardless of their accuracy), or else have the injured player take his at-bat while leaning on his bat until he either gets called out on strikes or walks.

If he walks, have him crawl down to 1st base and keep crawlin' around the bases until the defense gets worried thar he might score and decides to tag him out. Then carry him back to the dugout until it's time to play defense again. But it would be easier just to have the injured player "refuse" to take his at-bat. His team would be giving up an out, but it's better than giving up the game via forfeit.

Once the game is over, then the club can call paramedics (or the M. E.), as necessary.

Obviously, it's not the optimum way to play the game, but it's better than a forfeit.

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