We So Own You

The almighty Redbirds march into Wrigley Field which has been their own version of "The Killing Fields", losing all seven games they've played here this year. Today's pitchers met back on July 28th here at Wrigley, a game in which Marmol walked seven in a five and third innings. That sounds familiar. But we seem to bring out the very worst in Scott Rolen who committed a throwing error in the fourth which would have ended the inning (He has something like 3 or 4 crucial errors against us this year, he only has 10 for the whole season). Pierre promptly tripled in three runs and the Cubs held on for victory. Another fun stat, Pujols is 4 for 24 at Wrigley this year without a homer. Do not taunt Albert Pujols or Happy Fun Ball! Cubs could make the Central very interesting with another sweep this weekend. Go Cubs! GAME ONE HUNDRED-TWENTY-ONE IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] ST. LOUIS CARDINALS (64-56 (Div) 1st- 0 GB; (Wild Card) N/A) AT CHICAGO CUBS (52-68 (Div) 5th - 12.0 GB; (Wild Card) 12th - 9.5 GB) Wrigley Field, 1:20 pm CDT Weather: Overcast, 82 degrees, Wind Out to CF @ 8 mph TV: CSN, DirecTV 735 Radio: WGN, XM 187
Carlos Marmol, RHP 5-5, 5.50 ERA, 68.2 IP 52 K, 55 BB, 11 HR 234/378/464 againstJason Marquis, RHP 12-11, 5.71 ERA, 156 IP 73 K, 55 BB, 28 HR 283/352/497 against

David Eckstein, SS *Chris Duncan, LF Albert Pujols, 1B Scott Rolen, 3B Juan Encarnacion, CF Preston Wilson, RF Ronnie Belliard, 2B Gary Bennett, C *Jason Marquis, P *Juan Pierre, CF #Cesar Izturis Michael Barrett, C Aramis Ramirez, 3B *Jacque Jones, RF #Angel Pagan, LF *John Mabry, 1B Ronny Cedeno, 2B Carlos Marmol, P

Cardinals vs Marmol: No Cardinals with more than 10 AB's Cubs vs. Marquis: Juan Pierre: 6-23, 261/346/435, 1 K, 3 BB, 3 XBH Michael Barrett: 8-22, 364/440/591, 0 K, 4 BB, 4 XBH Aramis Ramirez: 8-19, 421/476/737, 1 K , 2 BB, 3 XBH Cesar Izturis: 5-12, 417/417/500, 2 K, 0 BB, 1 2B
Preston Wilson signed with the Cardinals today and Edmonds is out indefinitely with post-concussion syndrome, something that has knocked Corey Koskie and Mike Matheny out for the season. Poor Matt Murton sits again. I don't even want to bring up his August numbers.
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Comments

Like I said, now a little angrier:
What the Bloody Hell does Murton have to do to stay in the effing lineup??!!!
Hit .700? Slug .1400?

Pagan is having a nice season, but here are the #'s siince the All-Star break:

Pagan:
.286/.343/.429
1 HR, 5 RBI in 63 AB's

Murton:
.348/.408/.594
4 HR, 17 RBI in 69 AB's

Who do you play?

Murton since the ASB:
348/408/594

Pagan since ASB:
286/343/429

vs righty (All Year)
Murton: 292/347/416 (219 AB's)
Pagan: 301/338/548 (73 AB's)

and for fun:
Mabry:
vs righties: 221/308/331 (136 AB's)
since ASB: 233/314/433

sorry Dusty, was typing mine up and didn't notice yours

No worries Rob.....
By all means, we'd better keep proven veteran Mabry around for the playoff drive....or something.

That's much better than..say, bringing up Restovich or Hoffpauir for a 1 month tryout, because they couldn't match those sterling numbers.

The Cubs are a joke, for so many reasons.

Obviously you don't want to take away a manager's gut instinct or behind the scenes info on unofficial injuries, etc, but it is disappointing to see someone so hot sit on the bench.

What is more sour is that with the seeming likelihood of signing a power stick for LF next year, trading Murton in the offseason rather than keeping him around as a 4th outfielder (probably Pagan's job) becomes a very likely scenario. Enjoy him while you can.

That's much better than..say, bringing up Restovich or Hoffpauir for a 1 month tryout, because they couldn't match those sterling numbers.

How about just hitting some ground balls to Murton at first and buying him a new glove. First base is not very hard to learn. Or try it with Pagan, don't matter.

But Rob, that would be logical.

It's way too late in the season to start doing that!!!

I hate to draw analogies, but look at today's Cardinal line-up and compare it to the 2005 Cubs...Who would you rather have?

1B: Pujols or DLee circa 2005?
2B: Ronnie Belliard or Todd Walker?
SS: Eckstein or Neifi?
3B: Rolen or A-Ram?
C: Bennett or Barrett?
LF: Chris Duncan or Todd Hollandsworth?
CF: Juan Encarnacion or Corey Patterson?
RF: Preston Wilson or Jeromy Burnitz?

As we learned last year, that ain't a line-up of a team the even sniffs contention.

Sorta on topic. Phil rogers is the dumbest man in all of the writing business. How this guy writes about sports for a LIVING is beyond me. If I had my way he would be writing Hardee's advertisements.

I'd say this Marmol kid has some composure problems...walks, errors, hit batters...ahh, the perils of youth.

Did Eckstein get hurt?

looks like an oblique injury for Eckstein

Could use murton's production right about now. what the f***, this is killing me.

Why not try Murton at second base. He could prove to be a good addition at that position. I don't think Cedeno is the answer. He probably will be a light hitting batter his whole career.

John

So much for the winning streak and the perfect record against the Cards at home.

i've read a lot of comments on next year's potential outfield. Why have i heard absolutely nothing about a potential trade for Vernon Wells? the guy is a certified bad a**. he's under contract through '07, but looks like the Jays may not have enough $$$ for an extension. is there potential for this?

looks like marmol might have pitched himself out of the rotation.

"Why have i heard absolutely nothing about a potential trade for Vernon Wells?"
I've mentioned him and Andruw Jones in center, as well have others.

See what happens when our pitchers don't walk anybody? DISASTER!

Marmol's velocity was down to 88-89mph so I'm sure that's why he was given the early hook...even moreso than the 3 ER. Probably will be hearing that Marmol will be going on the 15 day DL with "shoulder stiffness" or "shoulder irritation"...ie rag arm.

In the postgame interview on Comcast, Dusty said Marmol was taken out because he had pain in his right bicep.

whatever the hell gets him out of the rotation...

Also, Dusty said that Izzy has had a tight hamstring for a bit and that is why he was taken out. Most likely he won't be in the lineup tomorrow.

Well with Izzy hurt, I'm sure that will give Dusty the chance to give Theroit a start.

(snicker)

Dusty can play Theriot or Neifi, there and I can care less which one, as they both are back up players. But if the Cubs are serious with keeping Cedeno at 2B for next year, I hope he doesn't play SS unless in an emergency. He needs to break all those habits of playing SS and should focus on what a 2B is suppose to do.

Here is a poll from this week's SI:

Which ballpark is the most difficult to play in as a visiting player? (Based on a survery of 415 MLB players)

Yankee Stadium - 21%
Fenway Park - 20%
Wrigley Field - 10%
Citizens Bank Park (Philly)- 10%

Rob, as always, your post titles prove to be eerily inversely prophetic.

Dusty can play Theriot or Neifi, there and I can care less which one, as they both are back up players.

Vintage, Manny, vintage. Just because they're both backups doesn't mean they're the same level of ability.

theriot can take a walk...neifi can hit for doubles power with the occasional homer.

there's your difference...and its not like theriot's gonna take 100 walks and K 50 times. theriot does have 3 doubles and a triple, but 2 of those doubles should have been outs.

How many of Neifi's doubles (or base hits for that matter) should have been outs?

No, Crunch, your difference is that Theriot can get on-base, and Neifi can't.

theriot...

27ab's and everyone's gonna throw 2+ years of scouting out the window. great job.

what i said i'll stand by.

Oh, come on, Crunch. I'm not saying Theriot is a decent player or even a decent prospect. Theriot isn't a regular and he probably shouldn't be on the ML squad. But neither should Neifi.

If it's a choice between the career 40 ABs of Theriot at .275/.356/.425 or Neifi (career 4992 ABs, .269/.299/.378), I'll stand by what I said and take the former.

And, btw, that "doubles power with the occasional homer" has shown itself in 2 HRs and 13 2Bs in 230 ABs. That, and his season line of .252/.265/.343, is truly horrible.

and all im saying is what theyre capable of.

im not pulling this outta thin air. if you wanna shoot the messenger, just get your guns and go shoot the player doing it. he's the guy responsible for what he can and cannot do.

your hope, wishes, and dreams for theriot will not make him something he's not.

i didnt say who SHOULD play, but i did say what they can/cannot do.

if you're pissed theriot cant do what he cant do, take it up with him...its not my fault.

Whom exactly are you arguing with? I'm not disagreeing with you about Theriot -- he's nothing special. He's not anyone that should be playing UNLESS it's in lieu of Neifi. In my mind, he's simply "alternative to Neifi". Come on, Crunch.

neifi's only got power from the right side and not much of it. Theriot's a different player the last 2 years since he scrapped switch-hitting.

well andrew, if i scroll up it seems like i presented the differences between theriot/neifi and well, it didnt go over well.

i dunno what im argueing about at this point...it seemed that neifi vs. theriot comparison you didnt like, though.

there is very little mystery to theriot's game...if he didnt play SS as well as 2nd, he'd be in the class with fontenot and b.hill...the dude isnt an ob% machine and he's a single hitter.

and as hard as it may be to imagine, yes, give neifi a full season and he's a 30+double 10-homer guy. he wont walk as much as theriot, but there is more pop in his bat.

colvin 3/4 with a double today...up to .276

go kid go.

see you in 2 years hopefully.

53 hits...11 doubles, 5 triples, 5 homers...10sb/2cs...39k 13bb 188ab

looks like he's due for high-A next year and maybe AA.

btw...darin downs pitched, too.

another piss-poor outting.

poor kid. he was quite a promising suprise pick, but he's flaming out quite quik.

I was at the ballgame today -- two quick thoughts for those who didn't watch.

- The 3rd inning brought back memories of The Neifi Game against the Braves. 3 errors charged, and Cedeno should have had Marquis' inning-opening grounder -- went as a hit, but the play should have been made. Marmol's 2 errors were just horrible ands stupid -- his wild pick off throw was easily the worst I have ever seen -- it's like he thought first base was 10 feet left of where it actually is. Like the Braves series, the Cardinals 3rd base coach just kept waving runners home, knowing the Cubs can't execute a simple cut-off play. Truly embarrassing to be there watching all the Cardinal fans laughing at the Cubs Little League efforts.

- For those who didn't watch -- no cheap HRs for the Cards today. Each one was a rocket -- I don't know what the hell Aardsman was throwing, but it looked like BP. Truly frightening.

Lovely to see that Sean Marshall got rocked, again.

Crunch, I don't mind if you compare Neifi and Theriot, I just hold strongly that there's a distinct difference between the two. If you want to call them both worthless players, fine, but one of them is clearly, clearly more worthless. That was my point.

Ryan Theriot is a different hitter the last two years since he stopped switch-hitting. He benefitted from working with Von Joshua at West Tenn last year and at Iowa this year, and has been a consistent .304 hitter both last year at AA and this year at AAA. He doesn't hit home runs, but he does hit doubles and triples, and he steals bases. And he hustles his ass off. He also has a knack for hitting foul balls virtually at wiil. He is literally a David Eckstein clone.

Of course you're right about Theriot Arizona Phil. I've said the same since I saw him in spring training. He's a real nice ballplayer who belongs in the major leagues. No doubt about it fine second baseman and good hitter.

Hope Dusty gets the axe and he gets a genuine chance.

Still seasoning:

FELIX PIE went 4/5 tonight with a double, leading off for Iowa. He's raised his BA to .282 .

Meanwhile, Dusty's boy Bynum has apparently been handed the second baseman job (Fontenot=chopped liver) and the second spot in the order.

CWTP,
I think Fontenot is hurt but not on the DL.

Andrew,
The stats you give for Neifi are pretty good for a MLB bench player, especially a middle infielder. The thing that pisses you off is his OBP butthat is a stathead concern. More MLB teams find those stats useful than do not. Especially for a guy who is very sound inthe field, good in the clubhouse, and a team guy. He is also a guy who would be picked up right away if we DFA'd him tomorrow. Everyone who has a lower OBP is criticized here so it doesn't make any sense to argue about it. Theriot is a very nice utility player and I hope he is a Cub for many years to come but he is no savior or even a regular solet's just see what happens over the next 12 months.

What a sad state of affairs when the argument is if Cedeno, Bynum, Neifi, Fontenot or Theriot should be seeing playing time at 2B for the Chicago Cubs. Crap vs. crap vs. crap vs. crap. I wish that was ACTUALLY the top 5 things wrong with the Cubs. That should be something to waste any time on, if this team was a division leader, not 17 games under .500. But whatever, give Cubs fans their kicks nowadays.

i dunno if he is indeed a different hitter since he quit switch hitting...or what way, rather.

he's still got no power, not even doubles power. i haven't seen it, my friends haven't seen it, and unless im being lied to, he dont even show it during BP hitting those stupid yellow loogie balls.

bat control...this has gotten better, but he's still not a great contact hitter (which is kinda like having a nice boat with only 1 paddle...you got what you need, but it may not be pretty).

he's gonna K...he's also gonna walk...but the thing that bothers me is when he does make contact, he's not gonna go far and not going there often enough.

eckstein might be a good comparison, but that's not anything a player wants to be besides the "has heart" part. a guy who's playing beyond his skill set consistantly isnt projectible, just rare.

bobby hill sighting...

San Diego Padres minor league 2B Bobby Hill has been named to the USA Olympic qualifying roster, according to Amanda Branam of Sandiego.Padres.MLB.com. Hill, currently with Triple-A Portland, will be in the 2006 COPABE Olympic Qualifying Tournament in Cuba, from Friday, Aug. 25 through Tuesday, Sept. 5.

from kffl.com

What do we know?
Neifi is a .300 winning percentage-level player.
Cedeno has shown he is no better. He does have an advantage of youth, which means he may post sub .300 OBPs for years to come.
Izturis is in the same league offensively.
You CANNOT devote 1200 PAs over a season to two lineup spots which produce at that level. That is, unless the rest of your lineup is the '61 Yankees.
Actually Bobby Ridhardson was a Neifi/Cedeno-like player offensively. That's why he scored all of 80 runs hitting in front of Maris and Mantle. That's why before 1961, Stengel would bat him 9th in the batting order. Great "bat control", though. Great guy in the clubhouse. I sure Dusty would have loved him.

Ok Crunch, since "i dunno if he is indeed a different hitter since he quit switch hitting...or what way, rather."
Here's his last 2 years, this year at Iowa, and last year at AA.

2006:
.304/.367/.379 27BB/34K 14SB/3CS
2005:
.304/.365/.391 45BB/38K, 24SB/10CS

Neifi for his career:
.270/.301/.380

Neifi won ONE gold glove 6 years ago. He is NOT that player now. He is not a #2 hitter, no matter how much Dusty would like him to be.

Will Theriot "save" the Cubs? No, of course not. Does he have any power? No!
Is he less expensive, younger, and have more upside than Neifi!..yes.
Does Theriot show that he can work the count, get on base, take an occasional walk, and steal some bases?
In his last 2 years, and a small MLB sample size, he does.

For every "10 HR" year in the great Neifi Perez's career, you also get clunkers like this:
.236/.260/.303, 3 HR, 37 RBI
.232/.276/.295, 2 HR, 33 RBI

This team has lots of issues, but Neifi getting to play more than 1 time a week , except as a defensive replacement, shouldn't be one of them.

Cubs minor league highlights from yesterday:

Round Rock completes 4 game sweep of Iowa Cubbies. Obligatory Cubs 1st Round Bust update: Luis Montanez - no AB last night

West Tenn Diamond Jaxx continue their death spiral of the 2nd half season (hard to blame them - with the exception of Sean Gallagher, all of their starters have been promoted to the bigs or AAA). Obligatory Cubs 1st Round Bust update: Bob Brownlie pitches 2/3 of IP, no runs.

Daytona blows lead in bottom of the 8th, now drops to 3rd in division. Obligatory Cubs 1st Round Bust update: Ryan Harvey 2-4, 2rbi, no K

Peoria - loses 12-0 and NO-HIT in the process. Continue poor 2nd half. No Cubs 1st Round pick on roster. Yusef Carter does manage to not strike out - a feat more rare than the team being no-hit.

Boise - wins 5-1. Obligatory Cubs 1st Round Bust update: After having his avg. peak in the .320's, Tyler Colvin has been in a major Aug swoon, with the avg. dropping to the .260's (with several K's and a smattering of BB's -- a true Cubs prototype hitter for sure), Colvin bounces back with a 4-5 night to up the .avg to .276

Crunch doens't understand that 1 pitch can decide a game and one game a season. He'll agree that Albert Pujols is better than Travis Lee, but besides that all the players are about the same, and there's no need to concern yourself with roster spots 18-25.

Murton since the All-Star Game:
.352 .410 .592

Carlos Lee since the All-Star Game:
.307 .342 .467

5 years at $70 million? SIGN HIM UP!

THE REAL NEAL:

Murton since the All-Star Game:
.352 .410 .592

Carlos Lee since the All-Star Game:
.307 .342 .467

5 years at $70 million? SIGN HIM UP!

Wake Up Real Neal!

You are being way too narrow in comparing a guy with what - 350+ AB's in ONE SEASON ? with a proven, veteran, clutch power hitter that can also hit for average AND can field his position better.

Come back in two more years, and then you can have a better sampling, Senior.

So now we are suppose to decide what to do in LF in 2007 based on what? 6 weeks and maybe 100 AB's? Sounds like a good idea to me....

Murton's numbers since the all-star break shouldn't have any effect on signing another slugger this offseason.

What is insane is that a player can be hitting that well, and not be playing everyday.

But you know, Murton went into a slump in May, so he can't be counted on anymore. Afterall, Its not like anyone expected Dusty to cut Murton's playing time if he hit a rough patch. No one could have ever seen that one coming...

What's the story with Vernon Wells? There has been speculation here on TCR and elsewhere that he could be in the Cubs sights for 2007. But why would Toronto give him up? He's signed through 2007 and is one of the better CF in all of baseball. Is it legit to think he might end up in a Cubs uniform next year?

But why would Toronto give him up? He's signed through 2007 and is one of the better CF in all of baseball. Is it legit to think he might end up in a Cubs uniform next year?

Apparently Vernon Wells has said he won't sign an extenstion with the Blue Jays (wants to be closer to his home in Texas), making it likely that he'll be traded during the off-season. I suppose the Cubs could get him, if Hendry wants him, and Riccardi is looking for some young, talented pitchers who don't like to throw a lot of strikes.

Dont go after Wells he's another one of those Wilken drafts in Toronto and this is the same idiot that brought you Tyler Colvin!

neal...umm

wrong. just wrong. totally wrong.

stick to looking at blank stats without worrying how they got those stats. leave the analysis of what i know to those who are more familiar with what i know...like me.

Slamdog,
Yea, slam Wilkens for his outstanding drafts in Toronto. You mean to tell me that you know what Colvin will turn out to be? Wilkens has a track record as good as any evaluator in baseball. Even if Colvin is a bust, it won't change his overall record of having high draft choices reach the majors.

Manny and E-Man,

Murton has a higher OBP than Lee. Murton is going to continue to add power to his game. Murton is a better fielder than Lee and Lee is going to get worse and worse. Give your left ear a tug, maybe that is the on-switch for your brains.

Crunch,

Maybe you shouldn't talk about knowing where stats came from, in a post where you've been proven wrong on Neifi's stats. Just something to consider.

i got proven wrong about what stats of neifi?

hahahahahah

how many times did i mention stats...okay, i'll count

blah blah blah...carry the one..substract for wind speed resistance...

OH YEAH, ZERO.

"theriot can take a walk...neifi can hit for doubles power with the occasional homer."

Neifi's career doubles per 162 games = 28
Theriot's over last two years = 32

League and park adjust those, and what's it come to? The same.

Of course Neifi's doubles probably look better to your expert eye than Theriots.

hahahahahah

"League and park adjust those, and what's it come to? The same."

uhh...

ummm...

btw...i have no idea why you pulled those #s for points of comparision, but uhhh ummmm to that, too.

Having no idea seems to be a recurring theme with you.

Let me spell it out for you, using short words. Theriot hits as many doubles as Neifi.

so does michael barrett...let's keep trading up til theriot's good as pujols.

REal Neal,
Let's see...Neifi hits his in the majors and Theriot hits his in the minors and 28 = 32 by park and league aadjustment, ummm. Where do you get that?

Walt:
Let's see...Neifi hits his in the majors and Theriot hits his in the minors and 28 = 32 by park and league aadjustment, ummm. Where do you get that?

I think the 32 was for Theriot and the 28 was for Neifi, so he was adjusting Neifi up and Theriot down when he said they are the same.

Anyway, the point is, Neifi doesn't really have significantly more power than Theriot, and does not take walks, making Theriot the superior hitter.

majors to minors do not make a comparison.

"majors to minors do not make a comparison."

You're correct. Often players who really struggle in the minors become major league stars.

Let's just use Major League stats, and act like Coors field in the 90's wasn't a hitter's haven.

Neifi's slugging .378
Theriot's slugging .415

Thanks for clearing that up, Walt. Crunch is still wrong.

Players who often struggle in the minors do not even make the majors. High level prospects get the chance like CPat did. We cannot predict what Theriot will do in the majors based on his minor league stats. The fact is that I like him, actually any player that hustles all of the time. He'd be a nice Neifi replacement but still we have no idea if he is a better hitter than Neifi.

neal...i dunno how you manage to walk with a diaper full of crap around your waist.

at least it matches what you got comming outta your fingertips via your mouth.

i dont mind you've twisted your logic to make your arguemnt work...even in its very weak manner. you've made things up, tried to talk about stats, then compared minor/major leaguers...now you say struggle = greatness.

well damn...brandon sing is a 40HR 1st baseman waiting to happen...look how much he's struggling.

how can you pile a list of logic like that crap above and still have the balls to end your statements with "crunch is still wrong."?

Crunch,

Have you ever heard of the word 'sarcasm'?

What an idiot.

Maybe in English class they explained about sarcasm the same day they went over capitalization? Maybe it was the same year, I get the feeling you slept a lot in school.

Now, let's pretend like you're reaonable. You said that Theriot can take a walk, and Neifi hit's doubles. That implies that Neifi's doubles 'power' is a trade-off for his not being able to take a 2-0 pitch. Except that Theriot hits doulbes at the same rate. So, there actually is no trade-off, no advantage to playing Neifi, regardless of what your sister's girlfriend's brother's barber saw at batting practice one day.

Just a question, these things that I allegedly made up. Can you quote any of them? Where is this twisted logic that my posts are rife with, or is that just an idiot not being able to detect blatant sarcasm?

Walt,

The fact is that minor league success or lack there of is a very strong indicator of major league success. It is also the best indicator you have when a player comes up to the majors.

keep changing that arguement...hey this is sarcasm...what an idiot you are! haha.

"Just a question, these things that I allegedly made up. Can you quote any of them? Where is this twisted logic that my posts are rife with, or is that just an idiot not being able to detect blatant sarcasm?"

well, im at home now...i can elaborate...aka SCROLL UP TO SEE WHAT'S WRITTEN FOR THE WORLD TO SEE...

1- Crunch doens't understand that 1 pitch can decide a game and one game a season.

...false generalization.

2- 5 years at $70 million? SIGN HIM UP!

...saracasm.

3- Maybe you shouldn't talk about knowing where stats came from, in a post where you've been proven wrong on Neifi's stats.

...your use of the word "proof" especially when im not even talking stats...your 1st changing of what i said to fit an arguement/conversation on your view.

4- League and park adjust those, and what's it come to? The same.

...you made that up.

5- Of course Neifi's doubles probably look better to your expert eye than Theriots.

...sarcasm i suppose

6- Let me spell it out for you, using short words. Theriot hits as many doubles as Neifi.

...so does michael barrett...only mike does it in the bigs, not in AA/AAA. this is not 2 comparible items.

7- Often players who really struggle in the minors become major league stars.

...occasionally true, but well...that's a crapshoot and you cant just apply it to a player cuz you want to...in this case, theriot.

8- You said that Theriot can take a walk, and Neifi hit's doubles. That implies that Neifi's doubles 'power' is a trade-off for his not being able to take a 2-0 pitch.

...no, it doesnt.

9- The fact is that minor league success or lack there of is a very strong indicator of major league success. It is also the best indicator you have when a player comes up to the majors.

...now that is a gem. success or lack of it is a strong indicator of success. you realize you were being asked how in the hell you came to your conclusion that struggle in the minors = success in the majors. you didnt even address the issue and claimed either/or works.

----

there ya go neil...you asked, you recieved. the things you made up...the gross generalization you think are facts cuz you wanna believe them...etc etc.

btw...if you got a problem with any of that...pick 1 and follow up...or more than 1 if you can stay on task.

i can explain to you how the PCL is a hitter's league and etc etc. if you want help handicapping theriot's minor league career. then we can go to talking about AAA-calibre pitching if youre not bored by that point. the talk about unrefined breaking pitches and location is pretty damn boring.

we can also talk about where theriot actually puts the ball in play and you can tell me what your thoughts on watching him take BP are.

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