Renewing Team’s Hopes One Series at a Time

I imagine by the end of this series, the Reds will think they're right back in the playoff hunt. We've already given new hope to a number of teams the last month or so. Go Cubs! GAME ONE HUNDRED-FORTY-NINE IN-GAME DISCUSSION THREAD [PARACHAT] CINCINNATI REDS (73-74 (Div) 2nd - 5.5 GB; (WC) 5th - 3.5 GB ) AT CHICAGO CUBS (59-89 (Draft) 3rd - 2 GB) Wrigley Field, 3:05 pm CDT Weather: Cloudy, 78 degrees, Wind from R to L @ 14 mph TV: CSN Radio: WGN, XM 188
Rich Hill, LHP 5-6, 4.60 ERA, 78.1 IP 63 K, 34 BB, 12 HR 243/321/438 againstChris Michalak, LHP 1-2, 5.09 ERA, 23 IP 6 K, 10 BB, 4 HR 299/378/494 against

Ryan Freel, CF Norris Hopper, RF* Rich Aurilia, 1B Edwin Encarnacion, 3B *Adam Dunn, LF Dave Ross, C Royce Clayton, SS Brandon Phillips, 2B *Chris Michalak, P *Juan Pierre, CF Ryan Theriot, 2B Aramis Ramirez, 3B Matt Murton, LF *Jacque Jones, RF Henry Blanco, 1B Ronny Cedeno, SS Geovany Soto, C *Rich Hill, P

Reds vs. Hill: No Reds with more than 10 AB's Cubs vs. Michalak: No Cubs with more than 10 AB's
I assume something is wrong with Derrek Lee. We know something is wrong with Dusty Baker. Does Blanco have some incentive clause or something Baker's trying to reach for him?
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Comments

Rich Hill needs to be traded. Hendry has to learn how to sell high, not low like he has been lately.
Posted by: mannytrillo at July 19, 2006 12:08 PM
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And Hendry's the dumbass? Right....

Rich Hill continues to look like the sole beacon of light in this rookie starting rotation.

Is Izturis still recouping, and getting every other day off, or is that just so he can get the SS of the Pirates' future more PT?

Our first complete game of the year.

Brilliant, Rich Hill. Only 100 pitches too

118, Yahoo was being slow.

Fuck yeah, I've always liked you, Rich.

"And Hendry's the dumbass? Right...."

Go TCR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, Great Job Rich Hill!!! It is GREAT to see his dramatic turnaround. Last year, the Cubs clearly rushed him to the bigs and this year he struggled early in the season, but did a superb job of working on his faults when he got sent down and made the most of his recall. Hopefully he can continue it through ST next year and we got our #4 starter.

Today is why I'd like to see the Cubs' next manager have a plan for Felix Pie. If his first five weeks of 2007 are like his last 6-7 weeks of 2006, then bring him up in May during interleague play (when they can use the extra bat in AL ballparks and have Pierre DH) as a learning experience, give him another three starts at home, then send him back to Iowa for June to work on what he has learned are his deficiencies. Then if he has fixed them, bring him up on July 1 to stay.

But I'm still annoyed that Blanco got another start at 1B. Play Scott Moore now, let Blanco play a lot of 1B in Spring Training.

Nick:
"But I'm still annoyed that Blanco got another start at 1B."

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I didn't hear anything that Moore was hurt. But at least Soto got a start.

"and have Pierre DH"

Why would you DH your best outfielder (glove-wise)? You would have Murton or Jones play DH.

Rich Hill did great today!

If he shows up to ST pitching like that, that will make another arm for the rotation next year. Hooray for the 2-man rotation.

Lee is out do to a family emergency.

I was at today's game and Rich Hill was truely impressive, low pitch count throughout and no innings where there was only one inning where he had more than one baserunner. Given their current lineup it's hard to believe the Reds are still in wild card contention. It speaks to how horrid a season the Cubs really have had. I recall that Prior in his rookie season went 6-6, so Hill has essentially matched that even with his 0-4 start.

from cubs.com notes:

Z starts tomorrow after getting medical clearance, Marshall gets to go Monday vs Phillies. Hooray cause I'm going tomorrow too.

Rusch still eating hospital food and getting a daily dose of rat poison (aka a blood thinner called coumadin). Yum.

Hail Caesar Izturis didn't play as he's still nursing a hammy. I think they spotted him in full nursing gear feeding Glendon.

Ryan O'Malley out till next year but he's busy writing his life story including the screenplay.

Rich Hill and Donald Veal were named organizations co players of the year. Wow, two leftys...it's been a long time prior to this year when the Cubs had more than one lefty on the starting staff. The future's so bright I've gotta wear shades.

sorry, I need to fire my proofreader:

...low pitch count throughout and there was only one inning where he had more than one baserunner.

the future's so bright you need shades? the fact that there were no position players worthy of the award is distrubing. especially when we're last in runs scored. the futures not too bright.

"Last year, the Cubs clearly rushed him to the bigs and this year he struggled early in the season, but did a superb job of working on his faults when he got sent down and made the most of his recall. Hopefully he can continue it through ST next year and we got our #4 starter."
---

I almost choked reading this pile of horseshit.
Hill hasn't changed a damn thing and he wasn't rushed last year, he's just been given the opportunity to succeed. A real opportunity. He hasn't had to look over his shoulder knowing that Dusty will yank him from the rotation if he has 1-2 bad outings.

How's the crow taste? It seems that Hendry shouldn't OF traded Hill after all. Give Hendry the credit for his brilliant foresight in not trading Hill.

"And Hendry's the dumbass? Right...."

Go TCR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mannytrillo - post #6
--

Go TCR? What does that even mean?

You advocated the trade of Rich Hill midseason (July19) where we would have likely gotten very little in return... Hendry stuck with his boy and its clearly paying off.

I guess its too much to ask to give Hendry some credit for correctly evaluating talent.

Go Manny Spin-Machine!!! (I have no idea what that truly means but I think it makes about as much sense as responding to a post with "Go TCR!!!")

FWIW, Hill's game score today was 92, which ties him with Dontrelle Wiilis for the highest game score in the NL this year. Since August 1, he's 6-2, with an ERA of 2.23 over 64-2/3 IP with 62 K and 17 BB and 44 hits allowed. I was a doubter, but maybe he really can pitch. I agree that he's probably pitched himself into the rotation for next year.

Why only quote Manny? There were a lot of dumbasses who criticized Hendry for not selling high last winter. I'm glad Hendry doesn't read these pages too often.

"Why only quote Manny? There were a lot of dumbasses who criticized Hendry for not selling high last winter."
----

1) The quote wasn't from last winter. It was from July 19. It's one thing to question Hendry not "selling high" when the target may have been Austin Kearns. Its another when its mid-season and you likely aren't going to get jack.

2) Manny screams hypocrite. Criticize everything and if it turns out you were right, then gloat and say "I told you so, Hendry's an idiot and is mainly responsible for the current downfall of this organization." If it turns out you were wrong, respond with spin like "Go TCR!!!"

This start does not prove anything for Rich Hill. So, let's not hand him a Cy Young award Big John.

Walt: There were a lot of dumbasses who criticized Hendry for not selling high last winter. I'm glad Hendry doesn't read these pages too often.

I distinctly remember that. I remember people thinking it would be good to trade Hill while his value was high, then, he bombed again and those people were, like, "told you, that's just like Hendry to miss out on that opportunity".

I think in general we expect too much of rookies. Even some of the greats didn't fare too well in their rookie years.

That's why I don't think I could handle too many of these young guys in the rotation next year.

Ideally I'd like to see Zambrano, Hill (although I wouldn't have said this 2 weeks ago, and we've only seen Hill version 2 for 1 1/2 monthes, that's a small sample), 2 journeymen-type veterans not named Prior or Wood acquired this offseason, Miller. If Miller can't stay healthy, I'd let the rookie pitchers compete for the last spot, probably between Marshall, Gooz, or Mateo.

Ideally, two guys like Adam Eaton.

Chad: This start does not prove anything for Rich Hill. So, let's not hand him a Cy Young award Big John.

That's fair, I boo small sample sizes as well, but did you watch the game? His pitches are electric and with the changeup, his fastball is a ton more effective.

I'll be more interested in seeing how he responds to a rough outing.

BJS:
"Hill hasn't changed a damn thing..."

He hasn't? Have you watched any of his games? He clearly has been spotting his fastball much better, in my opinion. That has set up his curveball and the hitters don't just have one pitch to look for. I think that is a pretty big change..

"and he wasn't rushed last year,"

That is your opinion, but I don't agree. I said it at the time, even before he pitched that first game last year. Before last season he had NEVER pitched above A ball. Even though he had a real good season in A ball the year before, I didn't like the fact they rushed him up to the bigs. I didn't fell he was ready last year and it showed.

"He hasn't had to look over his shoulder knowing that Dusty will yank him from the rotation if he has 1-2 bad outings."

He was actaully given 4 starts in a row earlier in the year and lost them all (and didn't look good in any of them). He was 0-4 with a 9.31 ERA in his first stint.

"How's the crow taste? It seems that Hendry shouldn't OF traded Hill after all. Give Hendry the credit for his brilliant foresight in not trading Hill."

There is no question Hill has pitched very good since being recalled and I truely hopes he continues it. I didn't think he had this in him, so yes I was wrong at this point (as were many other TCR psoters), but I think it is fair to hold over final judgement until next year to see how he does. If he does continue, then Hendry made a smart move not trading him, and I was clearly wrong, no doubt. I still don't think any player really should be "untouchable", but Hendry stuck with Hill and it appears now it might be the right move, again let's see over the course of a full season. But I hope he can parlay some of that good decision making into this offseason to fill the other holes/question marks on this team.

LNL:
"You advocated the trade of Rich Hill midseason (July19) where we would have likely gotten very little in return."

How do you know what he could of gotten in return?

"Hendry stuck with his boy and its clearly paying off."

Yes at this point it clearly has. I think to be fair we need to see how things go next season, but at this point Hill has done better than I thought he would of been able to. Kudos to Hendry...

Walt:
"Why only quote Manny?"

Isn't it obvious?

"There were a lot of dumbasses who criticized Hendry for not selling high last winter."

Hendry has sold low a few times over the past couple years with Patterson and Sosa, so maybe I was a little gun shy with Hill being called "untouchable". So far Hendry looks very smart over the past month, but like I have said, let's at least see what happens next year before making any final decisions on Hendry's geniusness. We need to improve our pitching a lot next year, so I hope he is finally right with Hill.

mannytrillo: Hendry has sold low a few times over the past couple years with Patterson and Sosa

Wow... Just wow.

Couple tidbits:
- Ichiro has gotten at least 200 hits in 6 consecutive seasons. Can you imagine what his numbers would be like if he played in US his whole career?
- Ichiro also has set an AL record for stealing 33 consecutive bases. Vince Coleman holds the NL and MLB record with 44. Ichiro is 39 for 41 this year in SB's. Only caught stealing twice all year...DAMN!!!
- Soriano tonight became the 4th player ever to go 40-40 (Canseco, Bonds and AROD). Soriano has 45 HR and 40 SB. Doesn't look like he will get 50-50.

I'm curious to know, manny, when is the correct time to trade a $17 million dollar player who turns shitty after getting busted with corked bats. Hmm?

Just... wow.

Ryno:
"I'm curious to know, manny, when is the correct time to trade a $17 million dollar player who turns shitty after getting busted with corked bats. Hmm?"

Preferrably not after you sell him out by releasing video tapes that he left early without permission on the last day of the season.

But many people, not myself, were advocating trading him even way before that. Saying they should of traded him the offseason before or even earlier.

You missed my point, manny. If I'm the Yankees, or Blue Jays, or Cardinals, I see a $17 mil dollar player who can't hit and say, gosh, that's not a good trade.

The video tape thing is a non issue, it didn't hurt his value any more than what he did to himself. Don't bring it up again.

Ryno:
"The video tape thing is a non issue, it didn't hurt his value any more than what he did to himself. Don't bring it up again."

Yes SIR, whatever you say...:)

"It is better to trade a player one year too soon than one year too late." - A's GM Billy Beane

Bah, we'll never agree on this stuff. We do agree the Cubs need starting pitching for next year, and lots of it. Of course even a drunk Joe Morgan could figure that out :)

Good quote, by the way, it's clever.

Yahoo! Sports: Reds star Ken Griffey Jr. was out of the lineup for the 10th straight game with a dislocated second toe on his right foot.

lol 'foot injury' would have been good enough. How does that happen anyway? How do you abuse one specific toe, while all the others stay healthy and intact.

"That's fair, I boo small sample sizes as well, but did you watch the game? His pitches are electric and with the changeup, his fastball is a ton more effective."

Maybe so. He may be the next big thing. I'm just saying lets wait and see.

And Ryno, the tape had a big effect on Sammy and his trade value. To a. dismiss that fact is ignorant and b. to say don't bring it up again is fascist.

Hey, Chad, did you watch the Dodgers game today? Why didn't Nomar play?

Nomar hurt his leg (possibly Quad?) during Saturday's game. I haven't heard anything today, but at the end of last night's radio broadcast, Stiener said Nomar would be out for at least a couple days.

Bleeding Blue:
"Nomar hurt his leg (possibly Quad?) during Saturday's game. I haven't heard anything today, but at the end of last night's radio broadcast, Stiener said Nomar would be out for at least a couple days."

Thanks! I wish I could say I am surprised. He has gotten 429 AB's this year though.

"It is better to trade a player one year too soon than one year too late." - A's GM Billy Beane

That quote is actually from Bill Veeck from well over 30yrs ago.

Azrad:
"That quote is actually from Bill Veeck from well over 30yrs ago."

That is very possibly correct, maybe Beane took it from Veeck. But when I type it in Google, it appears Branch Rickey said it also. So who knows who said it first.

Tick-Toc Jacque

I have mentioned probably ten-plus times that I'd like to give medium kudos to Hendry for signing JJones instead of worthless Burnitz again as quite a few of you had proposed.

Since it has been reported in the off-season that the Cardinals would have signed JJ had the Cubs passed, and then they signed J. Encarnacion, Jacque finally put together some very nice offensive numbers this year and I'm hopeful it will continue.

His 25 HR's to Edgar's 19 looks good, as does RBI's - they really have pretty similar stats and BOTH are signed to 3-year deals which turned out to be the "going market rate".

However, his horrid arm would be better suited to LF as some of you have alluded to. Also, a different manager would sit him against lefties more, which the current manager refuses to do. Perhaps, with the acquisition of another "big stick" it should help him more next year.

According to ESPN's game scoring system, Rich Hill has thrown the best game in the NL this year.

A complete game!

I missed while I was at the ND game.

Yuck.

MIchalak! I went to HS with that guy. His older brother was my homeroom teacher!

Cool. Nice to see a hometown guy pitch in the show.

Further thoughts on Dustyís seniority system, in which rookies are not allowed to upstage veterans:

Rich Hill mentioned yesterday that he and Soto have played together a long time, as far back as single-A.

Several weeks ago when Hill was doing his Jekyll-and-Hyde thing between Iowa and Chicago, I wondered why they didnít bring up his minor league catcher for a few games. That guy might be able to straighten him out.

But of course, in Dustyís system Soto could never have played ahead of Barrett and Blanco. The only reason Soto caught yesterday was that Blanco was playing first base.

And why was Blanco playing first instead of, say, Restovich, who had pretty much the same year at Iowa that won Jason Dubois the starting job in left for the Cubs the following year?

Restovich certainly deserved a call-up, but Hendry probably realized that Dusty would never play him anyway.

I donít consider myself a Dusty-basher. I think heís a good guy and a class act. But the type of team he could win with doesnít need a good manager.

JACOS:

Too bad you wasted your money on the Irish Hype.

No "National Championship" this year. YES!

Go Big Ten!

It looks like Scott Moore and Henry Blanco from here on out...so you might get to see if the rookie pitchers do better with their "comfort" catcher.

I just heard on AM 1000 that DLee is expected to miss the rest of the season as the medical leave he's on has to do with an illness with his daughter. I'm sure the entire TCR readership sends out their well wishes so that she fully recovers.

E-Man:
"Also, a different manager would sit him against lefties more, which the current manager refuses to do."

I don't know about that. In MINN, he got about 150 AB's every year vs. LHP. This year he has 125 AB's vs. LHP. I think with that big of a contract, he was signed to play everyday and that a vast majority of managers would play him everyday. Of course, I agree with you that I would like to see him not play at all vs LHP, as I too have suggested many times a JJ/Murton platoon in LF.

Yeah, you sign a guy for $3 mil to play every day, you just play him. His arm and problems hitting off lefties is nothing new, he did the same thing with the Twins.

Bummer about DLee.

WGN reports that D-Lee's three year daughter has developed blindness in one of her eyes.

Keep her and her family in your prayers.

http://tinyurl.com/hwzw4

here is the mlb.com article confirming the DLee news

same lineup as yesterday with Z pitching...

Hollandsworth is in the Reds lineup, Dusty musta pleaded with the Reds to get one of his guys in there since all his have been traded.

Real Bummer about both Derrick and Glendon -

This is really all entertainment for us and when we take a second for perspective, we realize what is truly important.

Agreed. Family is always more important. They'll be there long after baseball.

Ex-Cub Report - '06

OF the folks we let go at the deadline, it appears as if TWalk, Williamson, Maddux, and NEIFI are strongly smelling the playoffs.

TWalk is still doing his usual professional hitting thing and hit a HR against the Dodgers.

Nolasco and the Marlins are in the team photo, but I think it will take a huge push and combination of the teams in front going on a 3-5 or 2-6 record in order for them to sneak in.

So - nearly all of the cast-offs have a chance to make the post season. What does this say about the Cubs org?

GO BEARS!!

CUBS INFIELD

Hows this, Put Theirot at SS buy soriano then use all the rest of the money u have on starting pitching.....NOw we have a pretty formidable offense and only have to buy 1 FA for offense...get 3 Starters with the rest and/or trade.. get rid of cedeno and or Izturis and or bynum.

This would be the cheapest way to stregnthen offense(which the trib loves) it will satisfy the fans and then u build the pitching staff which is the Number 1 problem (after dusty,I am assuming we all know dusty is a given for gone.)

"said it at the time, even before he pitched that first game last year. Before last season he had NEVER pitched above A ball. Even though he had a real good season in A ball the year before, I didn't like the fact they rushed him up to the bigs."

Ever heard of Dwight Gooden?

"I didn't fell he was ready last year and it showed."

That's interesting. But if we try something called using facts:
Rich Hill 2005 23.2 Innings 9.13 ERA
Rich Hill 2006 23.2 Innings 9.53 ERA

The differece? Hill was given more of a chance in 2006 - that's all.

and before you say 'he got sent down in 2006 and learned some more', the main reason he got sent down was the stupid comments about Barret laying out Punchingbagnierski.

When you describe Hill as a 4th starter, I assume you mean after Zambrano, Schmidt and Prior?

So, The Real Neal, The Rich Hill Experience ended in 2005 because he sucked. Why didn't the Expeirence end this year after a horrible start? INJURIES. He would have never made it back this year if any of the following didn't happen: Maddux was traded, Prior discovered his vagina, Kerry Wood was Kerry Wood.

Also, if you think Hill was sent down because of comments about Barrett hitting AJ Eyechart, you would rate below retarded on most IQ scales.

I forgot to add that Gooden was a coke addict, Neal. Also, the main reason for Hill's recent dominance has been the ability to spot his fastball.

Hill's major league scouting report has been he has a wild fastball so sit on a curve. Now that he's spotting the fastball, the curve is actually effective. Until his change is at an ML level, hitters will start teeing off on the first 90mph absolutely straight fastball they see.

And once again, Hill didn't get sent down this year because Barrett hit someone, he got sent down because he sucked at the time.

Hill sucked at the time because he wasn't given the chance to know that he'd get the ball every 5th day for an extended period regardless of results.
If you expect every talented minor leaguer to perform their best right out of the gate in MLB, then you'd be sending most of your guys back after a SMALL sample size.

-
He hasn't? Have you watched any of his games? He clearly has been spotting his fastball much better, in my opinion. That has set up his curveball and the hitters don't just have one pitch to look for. I think that is a pretty big change.
-

This doesn't make a damn bit of sense.
Of course I've watched him and no, he hasn't changed a friggin thing. He didn't get sent back down to "work on stuff", he owned in the minors and had absolutely nothing left to prove... he got sent back because the Cubs have shit for patience when dealing with and developing young players.
He promptly went back down and completely dominated the minors.
His only issue during his last callup was the confidence to throw his pitches to MLB hitters the way he has thrown them to AAA hitters.

Do you understand how best to solve that problem?
Send him out to the mound every 5 days.

You are simply wrong.

BJS:
"You are simply wrong."

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I just don't agree.

Smitty, you made lots of sense in his posts.

Of course you don't agree. You have to stand firm and make it look like you had a point in the first place.

Hill had to work on his faults...?

his "fault" was not being given the chance to pitch in the big leagues every 5 days.

It's a good thing he was sent back to AAA to fix that problem. Because it only makes sense that if a guy has confidence issues in the majors, you send him to the minors where he can strike out every other hitter in his sleep.

This logic is incredible. Stand firm.

BJS:
"Of course you don't agree. You have to stand firm and make it look like you had a point in the first place. Hill had to work on his faults...? his "fault" was not being given the chance to pitch in the big leagues every 5 days."

I made my point, you just ignore it. His fault was that fact that he did not place his fastball very well. So batters were sitting on the curve. In his first stint this year he walked 15 guys in 19.1 IP. Since his latest recall, he has walked 20 guys in 68.0 IP. It should be pretty obvious.

"you send him to the minors where he can strike out every other hitter in his sleep."

You send him down to work on his fastball and the placement of it, instead of relying only on teh curve. He did that and now has had success. I hope he can keep it up.

You just don't get it. You have no point. Hill didn't have shit to work on in the minors.

Let me do this in manny-speak: "He placed his fastball with NO PROBLEM in AAA." "The MAJORS is where he had his problem with location because of CONFIDENCE!"

This was something that could only be rectified by pitching in a big league rotation on a regular basis.

BJS:
"You just don't get it. You have no point."

I feel I did make my point, you don't agree, and that's cool. I guess at this point it makes no sense talking anymore on the subject as we don't agree on anything, shocking I know...:)

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