Who’s Your (New) Daddy?

The Cubs are without a caretaker for the first time in four years and Teflon Jim has been busy gathering the greatest minds in baseball, letting them know what a privilege it would be to manage the worst team in the N.L., for a franchise that hasn't won anything in 98 years. You've got your work cutout for you Jim. God Speed. Some of us TCR-folk (kind of like river folk) had a little chat on the candidates: ---- 1) What's the most important question that Jim Hendry needs to be asking the candidates in their interviews? Rob G. - Know any good places to eat? (just kidding) "What are your methods for preparing the team, not only on a daily basis, but to withstand the rigors of a six to seven month season?" I'm going to cheat here and throw in a second question - "From an outsider's viewpoint, what were the most obvious mistakes this organization has made over the last four years?" AZ PHIL- "What makes you think you can do a better job than the three previous permanent managers (Riggleman, Baylor, Baker), or to put it another way, what (if anything) did they do that you would have not done, or what did they not do that you would have done?" Ruz - "Pop quiz, hotshot: It's the bottom of the first inning. The leadoff man is on first. Ryan Theriot, a pretty good bat-handler is at the plate. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?" 2) What's the most important question the managerial candidates need to be asking Jim Hendry in these interviews? AZ PHIL - "What exactly is your plan to improve the team this off-season?" Ruz - "Will management spend the money that I know they have in order to give me the players I need to compete at the level that the fans of this team expect?" Rob G. - "Which current members of the team are going to stay, who are you targeting this off-season and how much will we work together to shape the roster?" 3) Give us your thoughts on the rumored candidates: A) Joe Girardi AZ PHIL - I believe he would make a better Player Development Director, GM, or Team President than a manager. I don't think he functions well taking orders from above, probably because the stupidity of club executives drives him crazy. Ruz - Seems to be a good motivator. His hard-nosed attitude would be a welcome change, and surely he spent enough time watching Joe Torre to know that there is more than one way to build a winning team. Still, I worry that hiring him would be too much of an Alan Trammell-ish sop to nostalgia rather than a way to bring the team to the next level. Also, he's too bunty. Rob G. - My doubts have been tempered with some of the recent quotes I've read from Girardi. While his in-game management sounds a bit questionable, it sounds like he posseses what I feel are the two most important traits of a manager. The ability to get the players to respect him and the ability to adjust to the talent given to him. Of course we'll have to see if that's true. B) Lou Piniella AZ PHIL - Another Dusty Baker. Not the right guy for the Cubs job at this time, partly because he had problems in Tampa Bay and didn't do much to help that franchise change its losing culture. He would be a good fit with a team like the Yankees or the Red Sox, or maybe the Mariners again. Ruz - You know, he wouldn't be a terrible choice. He has shown an ability to be flexible, and as cranky and "fiery" as he seems I get the feeling people like to play for him. You know, "Tough But Fair." He might enjoy the challenge of trying to put this team over the top. Rob G. - I never really had a problem with LouPa the manager, which is quite the opposite on how I feel about LouPa the announcer. He's kind of a blowhard and I'm sure he's very old school in his mentality, but he seems to demand the best out of his players and they seem to respond. This team certainly could use a little bit of an attitude change from the previous headmaster. C) Bob Brenly AZ PHIL - A nice guy who would maybe be effective following a control freak like Buck Showalter in Texas, but I don't think he is particularly sharp and he is not demanding enough of his players. Ruz - I think Brenly might be too nice for this team, which needs a bit of a fire lit underneath it. Rob G. - Big Joke Bob can stay in the booth or go babysit Barry Bonds for all I care. He was a disaster in Arizona whenever Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling weren't pitching; hired to loosen up the clubhouse after the uptight Showalter left. And for the love of Abner Doubleday, he used Tony Womack as his leadoff man. D) Bruce Bochy AZ PHIL - Not all that special, but he is familiar with National League personnel and knows how to manage a game in the N. L. without doing too much stupid stuff. Ruz - I know little about his managerial style, other than the fact that he's managed to stay in San Diego for twelve seasons, and after the first back-to-back playoff appearances in franchise history, he might get fired. That means he's either a good manager who is being underappreciated by management, or a bad manager who keeps his head down and stays out of trouble. Rob G. - For a guy managing for eleven years or so, I know little about him. I do know he batted Brian Giles second quite a few times and there were whispers of moving him to the leadoff spot if Dave Roberts left, so I'm guessing he's got some brains. I can't imagine you last as long as he did without a whole lot of winning if you don't know what you're doing. E) Mike Quade AZ PHIL - Because he has managed in the Cubs organization, Quade might be the best choice if the Cubs choose to rebuild in 2007 and try to develop their own players and pitchers, which I very much doubt will happen. Ruz - The Cubs are not in a position to reward an organizational solider, even a talented one, with the reins to the team. If they were going to blow up the team and start over, Quade might be a good choice, but if they're going to mostly stick with what they have and try to re-tool, they need someone with major-league managerial or coaching experience. Rob G. - Fine by me, at least he'd be cheap and since he came from the A's organization at least he's heard of OBP. Of course, maybe he left because he didn't agree with their methodology. But unless Hendry wants to spend the entire offseason answering questions on why they cheaped out on the manager search, it's better to pass on him. F) Pat Listach AZ PHIL - Needs to manage another year or two in the minors before I would even consider him. Ruz - See E. Rob G. - Hey, I'm the token minority candidate that has to be interviewed to fulfill MLB rules. Thanks a bunch for wasting my time. Have a good day. 4) Out of the rumored candidates, who's your pick and why? Rob G. - I would have said Bochy, but late word from the radio is that the Padres denied the Cubs request to let him interview. That's okay because Joe Girardi has grown on me. I'm completely un-enamored by John McDonough's plea that the next Cub manager understand the Cub way (too many jokes there), and the hiring of Girardi may look like just a way to placate the fans, but I can see great things. I think it's fair to assume that Girardi will have this team prepared every single day and be a tireless worker for the team he grew up loving and the team that originally drafted him. If by getting the Cubs culture means understanding how much harder this team needs to work to finally deliver a championship, then I'm all for this link to the past. Ruz - Piniella, I guess, but I'd really like to see the Cubs take a long look at Ron Washington. He's a guy who is uniformly loved and respected by everyone in the A's organization, who deserves a chance to manage after years of coaching, and who might have the perfect temperament to lead this particular team. AZ PHIL - BRUCE BOCHY: I disagree with John McDonough when he says the Cubs need a manager who understands the Cubs culture, the team's fans, and its history. What the Cubs REALLY need is an outsider to run the team, someone who brings a new perspective to the organization. I don't think Bochy's personality is forceful enough to change everything, but at least he's an outsider, and at least he hasn't run the Padres into the ground by doing anything stupid. BOTTOM LINE: No matter what he might say, I suspect McDonough is more concerned about protecting the Cub "brand" than he is with winning, and Hendry is most concerned with just being competitive. Winning must come first. There must be a "Commitment to Excellence." -- Well those are our thoughts, now time for you guys to weigh in.
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Comments

According to MIKE QUADE in today's Des Moines Register he got the impression that the Cubs want to hire someone with major league experience during his interview with Hendry.

Quade wants out of the minor leagues. Says it's 70-30 he won't return to Iowa but maybe that's wishful thinking.

Since the topic is Field Management...What is this strange charismatic power Neifi Perez holds over middle-aged managers? Michael Rosenberg writing in today's Detroit Free Press about Jim Leyland's wacky lineup construction,

"Leyland's shortstop and No. 2 hitter was Neifi Perez, a man who admitted after the game, "I'm not hitting good right now." Leyland has an odd affection for Perez. He says Perez has a lot of energy. So does Regis Philbin, and I wouldn't let him bat second, either."

more on Leyland,

http://tinyurl.com/zpdgn

being girardi's 3rd base coach would get quade where he deserves to be = mlb.

i suppose my choice would be girardi, but the point is moot until about half the roster is turned over. which is one reason a choice of manager should be made at once: more time is then available for the real task, getting better players.

The Tigers should have given Chris Shelton a chance to be on their playoff roster. The worst thing about Neifi batting second last night (and going 0-4 on about 7 total pitches) is that the Tigers already have a negative-VORP Neifi-type on their team, Ramon Santiago. Why they ever thought they needed TWO no-bat middle infielders is beyond my comprehension. Shelton's bat may have disintegrated, but there is just no way he could have hit worse than Neifi. Also, Shelton would have provided backup at 1B so Guillen could have stayed at his natural position. It just doesn't make any sense.

Mark my words, Neifi Perez will become the new Forrest Gump of baseball. Its inevitable that he will shortly be traded to NEXT YEAR's ALCS champion too, and ultimately go 0-for-WS.

HORATIO: No matter to "The Neif". He could wind up with AT LEAST a big chunk-o-change as a member of a pennant winner.

How long would he have waited sitting on Dusty's coat tails?

Its pretty interesting that five players from this years' squad played in the playoffs. And, perhaps the WORST of the five could end up in the World Series!

What does THAT say about all of our speculations, prognostications, predictions, and Monday Morning managing here at TCR!

NOTE TO ROB G:

Have you ever considered changing the Blog's name to:

The Cub Speculator? Or, the Cub Speculator-Reporter?

Since that is what we do most of the time.

Just wondering...

After watchiing Bochy's bone headed managing against the Cardinals in the playoffs, I am firmly against him.
Leaving in Cla Meredith, a sidearming righty, against a lefty hitter, bad double switching...bad bench usage.

Christ, I thought Dusty was beinig channeled..

I'm in favor of Girardi. As I've said before, I want a manager that keeps the troops happy and prepared, and that's exactly what Girardi did in Florida. His in-game tactics don't worry me as much because (a) they can't possibly be worse than Dusty's, and (b) I don't think they have a huge effect on the W/L record anyway. I think he's also smart enough and young enough that his in-game management isn't set in stone yet.

I hate the idea of Piniella. He's Dusty Baker 2.0: "old school", "history of winning", "will change the organization's attitude", etc. Did anyone else listen to him constantly defend Baker during his broadcasts this year? I don't want a guy who thinks Dusty Baker did a good job.

Pinella, he seems to have the best experience of the candidates.

To be fair, E-Man, I believe Christian was the founder of "The Cub Reporter," though I don't want to get into blog politics territory.

Also, way to take the name incredibly literally. Half the fun of following a baseball team (or any team for that matter) is speculating on what they're going to do. You expect this to be like the Trib, Sun-Times, or Herald? Really? Even those papers have (terrible) editorials and opinion pieces.

it's ruz's site and The Cub Reporter is a good name. I think we do a lot more than just speculating at least in our posts. The comments are a free for all though.

I voted for "other". At this point, the top 3 manager options (Girardi, Pinnella nd Brenly) all have good and bad points. But it doesn't matter who the manager is unless Teflon Jim gets builds a better team. I just hope he decides who he wants and gets him ASAP so then as much of the offseason as possible can be focused on players (mainly ARam, Z extension and 2-3 SP's). Free Agency & GM meetings begin in like a month and the winter meetings are in less than 2 months.

With Bochy supposedly out of the picture now, based on the 670 Score report I heard, that at least eliminates another interview and more time taken up. Brenly and Pinnella were suppose to be interviewed this week, so hopefully hendry sticks to his plan he said and makes a decision by next week and lets move on.

CWTP-
During the game last night I posted on the other thread that Pinnella mentioned he liked Leyland's lineup. So I guess Hendry better not hire Lou.

DC:
"the point is moot until about half the roster is turned over. which is one reason a choice of manager should be made at once: more time is then available for the real task, getting better players."

Sorry man, I didn't steal your thoughts. I just voted and posted my thoughts as not to be influenced by others, maybe I should of read the thread first and said I agree with DC.

Figure there are about 40 hardcore 'posters' on here. We each get paid 75K a year (which would be less than what they paid Dusty or what they would pay Lou) and supply us with custom made laptops. Every decision the MGR needs to make would instantly pop up on our custom-made laptops and we would each pick our decision with the majority pick being the decision made. It would be the 'college of TCR poster-coaches.' Since we all nitpick every damn thing our team does, I believe this would make a lot of sense and we would be all over the media. Think about it, a NEIFI-type player would NEVER bat 2nd, we would never double-switch 6,776 times during a game and we would actually carve out a lineup card where OBP woud influence order spots.........wow, I gotta stop drinking this Armenian coffee

I was KIDDING about the name! The Cub Reporter is a fine name, indeed. But we DO speculate endlessly.
TOM C: This year the Schaumburg Flyers for 30 days I think, had fans voting for the ACTUAL game day lineups and positions for their team via the 'Net.

I actually hear this being reported on NPR during the summer!

Er..I meant: I actually heard this being reported...

Since a great deal of information is really due to the comments that are posted the the name should be changed to - The Cubs Suck - Watcha Gonna Do About it!

Tom C:

Who out of the 40 would go into the clubhouse and turn down Sammy's boom-box?

[from not-one-of-the-40]

College of TCR posters would quickly suck down all the available bandwidth and waste most of their time looking for hotties to do the 7th inning stretch.

I'm just sayin

Marc V,

Well I have only met John Hill and Dave from PGH and I am way heavier then they are, soooooo if no one else weighs more than 250 and is over 6ft I guess it would have to be me by default....(sigh)

E - Man,

I want to know about that Flyers thing, the bastards stole my idea!

Those marketing geniuses make the big bucks, Tom C.

They even sometimes can rise up to become baseball club Presidents? Can you believe it?!

Here is the Flyers fans thing:

http://tinyurl.com/y9avol

TOM C: Thanks for the link!

I really like Bochy; he's got all the in-game smarts and player rapport. But, it doesn't look like it will happen.

Regarding the Ruz comment on Piniella: "He might enjoy the challenge of trying to put this team over the top." Over the top of whom, given the current talent pool? Pittsburgh?

Apart from the three inhouse candidates, who don't count, and putting aside Piniella's continuous lobbying, the Cubs have only really interviewed one guy for manager. Since there is no sign of anyone else--unless you believe the reporters who, resolutely trying to fill white space, day after day pronounce that the Cubs should be about ready to dial S. Alderson's number in San Diego--and since Girardi has not been making any rounds this week, I continue to assume that Joe is all wrapped up and that they are just waiting for a break in the playoffs to make the announcement. I assume that's why Hendry said end of next week.

I thought they interviewed Girardi and Pinella?

Piniella and Hendry talked at length last week, they just kept it from the media.

Comment #21 is an early front-runner for Post of the Day

I do love the college of TCR-poster-coaches idea, I'm going to present Teflon Jim the idea when we meet over doughnuts next week. :)

I'm not so sure that when Joe Girardi was in Chicago meeting with McDonough and Hendry, that Girardi wasn't being interviewed by Hendry for the manager's position and by McDonough for a "front office" job. Like another ex-MLB catcher (Ted Simmons), Girardi impresses me as being more of an administrator than a middle-manager. Like maybe Assistant VP/Special Assistant to the Team President, with the GM gig in his future if the Cubs flop again in '07. Or maybe Assistant VP-Player Development Director (often a pre-cursor to GM), replacing Oneri Fleita.

If he is hired as an exec, maybe McDonough would give Girardi projects like re-establishing a Cub presence in the Pacific Rim and upgrading the club's presence in Latin America, because those are two things that really need to get done ASAP. Or finding new ways to allocate the payroll more effectively, like maybe deferred deals that would free more money in the short run (as the Diamondbacks did in 2000-02) that would allow the Cubs to sign and acquire more good players immediately.

Or maybe with his engineering degree from Northwestern, Girardi couldl be given a job like supervising construction of the new Wrigley Field parking garage, or re-designing the scoreboard so that all MLB games can be displayed.

Girardi is a smart guy. Probably a little bit too smart to function well as a field manager.

hey, anything is possible, but our pal Bruce Miles says Cubs insiders don't share the McDonough/Hendry riff

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp

Inside the halls of Wrigley Field, Cubs people pooh-pooh a public perception that Piniella is the choice of Hendry and that Girardi is preferred by new team president John McDonough. Hendry and McDonough are said to be on the same page, with McDonough providing input while leaving the ultimate choice up to Hendry.

There's also very few ex-ballplayers who are GM's.

Kenny Williams & Billy Beane are the only 2 that I can think of, I would venture a guess that players want to stay on the field, close to the action rather than get tied up in negotiating contracts and talking on cell phonnes all day. Anything is possible though, but Girardi sounds to me like he wants to be a manager.

via rotoworld and the NY Times, Glavine says he's retiring once he hits 300 wins. Let me add how awesome it would be if he retired the day after he reached 300 ala that Bernie Mac movie. "Mr. 300"

Az: I would be really surprised if he took a career path that took him off the field any time soon.

Murphy all fired up... lol... manager musical chairs. He thinks it will be Brenley.

*sigh*...

Why the hate for Oneiri Fleita? He has a done a darn good job in his position of director of player development. I know you guys harp on Hendry all of the time (which I also can't stand because I think he is a better than average GM-but I can at least understand because he is ultimately the one in charge) but Fleita is very good. Wilken is also one of the best. The Cubs lost a very good one inb John Stockstill this past year. Not everyone in the front office is the devil. A lot of the problems with Cubs were related to Dusty embracing vets who stunk and couldn't get on base. And also the fact that he didn't know how OBP relates to lineup construction.

"Think about it, a NEIFI-type player would NEVER bat 2nd"

Yeah, it would suck to be the Tigers right now.

I don't think it would suck to be the Tiger's. They have good enough offense they can win even by incorrectly and very stupidly batting Neifi 2nd in the lineup.

Chad,

That's a pretty classic example of "in spite of" rather than "because of."

Way to go Chad!!!!

Dumb comment....
The Tigers are winning in spite of Neifi....not because of his 0-fer performance so far in this series. Wow....

...of course, if you can give some examples of how Neifi helped the offense with his at-bats in the #2 spot last night, I'm all ears.

man, we're reduced to arguing about who the Tigers are now batting 2nd?

(sigh)

anway cubs.com has their nominees for the top defensive plays of the year. I'd vote Pierre's grab off the ivy against the Cards. Please do not vote for that Bynum play, losing it in the roof and then making it look spectacular should not count.

AZ PHIL: "Girardi is a smart guy. Probably a little bit too smart to function well as a field manager."

I don't know about that. You are aware of Anthony LaRussa, Attorney at Law? He may be alot of things, but I wouldn't say he's a dummie.

Zumaya is now out day-to-day with a sore wrist, had it earlier in the season and sat out about a week.

"There's also very few ex-ballplayers who are GM's"

Rob G-

Show some love for Ed Lynch.

"Hope springs eternal."

Ugh.

Pierre taking away Bonds HR #714 doesn't make the list? I'm surprised.

I was thinking current GM's, but thanks for helping prove my point that ex-ballplayers probably shouldn't be GM's. :)

Yeah, didn't think about that Pierre grab against Bonds. Must be the same people who put together the Hometown Heroes list.

Cappy:
"Why the hate for Oneiri Fleita? He has a done a darn good job in his position of director of player development."

He has? Our minor leagues system has being going backwards for like 4 years now. We haven't produced any good hitters (maybe Murton now, but we got him in trade). And none of our young pitchers can throw strikes. What exactly has he done to garner praise like "He has a done a darn good job"?

Chad:
"Yeah, it would suck to be the Tigers right now."

Well clearly now if the Tigers win the WS, it will be in spite of Leyland as he is playing Neifi, let alone batting him 2nd.

Yeah, I love the in spite of comments. Unreal. You guys can't see that people who are actually involved in baseball like Neifi Perez. Instead you make up stupid excuses. In spite of, puhhlllleeez. Just admit that Sabrebaseball is a freaking JOKE and move on.

"Quade wants out of the minor leagues. Says it's 70-30 he won't return to Iowa but maybe that's wishful thinking."

he sure didnt leave the oakland system to come here to sit around forever in the minors.

not adding him to the major league staff as a coach would just be stupid, imo. if nothing else he's a guy who knows all these kids already. yeah, scouts are paid to have all this info down for managers/coaches, but quade dont need a piece of paper...he's read them already and seen it in action to begin with.

if he's not the team's 1st/3rd/bench coach next year the club either "knows something" or they've totally wasted an oportunity.

i still think he's pretty much destined to end up coach anyway...he's done riding those busses.

if he does come back to manage iowa...wow.

when you admit your living in the past Chad....

oh yeah...the name change thing.

i vote TCR rename itself to "Bitchcakes"

Chad,

Being likeable isn't the same thing as being a good baseball player. I know you're not overly fond of statistics, but can you honestly look at Neifi's numbers as a Tiger and say he's positively contributed to their performance this season?

His line as a Tiger: .200/.235/.215, 13H, 1 2B, 0 3B, 0HR, 5 RBI, 3BB, 4K.

In the playoffs thus far: .000/.000/.000, 0H, 0 2B, 0 3B, 0HR, 0 RBI, 0BB, 1K.

Tiger's regular season record pre-Neifi: 79-45
Tiger's regular season record post-Neifi: 16-22

#35 of 42: By Cappy (October 12, 2006 12:43 PM)
Why the hate for Oneiri Fleita? He has a done a darn good job in his position of director of player development. I know you guys harp on Hendry all of the time (which I also can't stand because I think he is a better than average GM-but I can at least understand because he is ultimately the one in charge) but Fleita is very good. Wilken is also one of the best. The Cubs lost a very good one inb John Stockstill this past year. Not everyone in the front office is the devil. A lot of the problems with Cubs were related to Dusty embracing vets who stunk and couldn't get on base. And also the fact that he didn't know how OBP relates to lineup construction.

-

CAPPY: Since I'm the one on this thread who made reference to Oneri Fleita (where I mentioned that Joe Girardi could be hired to replace Fleita as Director of Player Development), I presume you are accusing me of "hating" Oneri Fleita?

You are aware that the Cubs farm system has been getting progressively worse by the year? I see it first-hand in the Minor League Camp during Spring Training, in Extended Spring Training, in AZL rookie ball, and in the Instructional League. And while that is by no means all Oneri Fleita's fault, he shoulders some of the blame, as does the Cubs organization for firing its scout in the Pacific Rim (Leon Lee) and not going hard enough after prospects in Latin America.

That said, I do not "hate" Oneri Fleita (he is a very nice man), and neither have I ever referred in any way, shape, or form to anyone in the Cubs front office as "the devil." Not sufficiently competent? Probably. But certainly NOT "the devil."

Next time, be more careful. Do not put words in my mouth. OK?

re: neifi

some managers, and suprisingly to some not just dusty, love to put a contact hitter in the #2 slot...a guy who can put the ball to either side of the field, bunt, etc.

neifi's that type of guy...like it or not...the "scarey" thing to some is its not only uncommon, but there's a reasonable chance that whoever takes over the Cubs next will have the same philosophy about the use of the #2 slot.

i hate it, myself...but its in the baseball culture even for the "smart" managers.

my #1 beef with dust was his use of that, but just cuz Dust is gone doesn't mean that problem is solved.

before people run outta ticker-tape for their celebration parades they might wanna wait to see who's taking over and how they plan on using the players they get.

"anway cubs.com has their nominees for the top defensive plays of the year."

How is Cedeno's catch of a pop up in short left field during I think the second-to-last game of the year not on that list? He had his back completely to the infield and was totally horizontal. Probably the second best play of the year behind Gary Matthews' catch over the wall.

It was essentially Willie Mays' catch, except diving.

my #1 beef with dust was his use of that, but just cuz Dust is gone doesn't mean that problem is solved.

that's your #1 beef? Wow!

"His line as a Tiger: .200/.235/.215, 13H, 1 2B, 0 3B, 0HR, 5 RBI, 3BB, 4K.

In the playoffs thus far: .000/.000/.000, 0H, 0 2B, 0 3B, 0HR, 0 RBI, 0BB, 1K."

Well then, sure, you guys are right. And Jim Leyland doesn't know what he's doing. I should listen to you guys more.

Yeah, right.

"that's your #1 beef? Wow!"

yeah, what's yours?

i could care less about who gets patted on the butt or who gets chewed out in the press, honestly.

dust isnt a guy who's gonna give the press a lot to chew over cuz he's a guy who gets it done in the clubhouse, not the papers/press.

leyland will call anything out in public...that's his style...pinella...etc.

for what its worth, looking back at the personalities dust was around its not suprising...bonds, k.mitchell, w.mays...

yes, willie mays...for everyone that thinks he's a humble hank aaron...HAHAHAHHAHA...seriously, guy is a player/thug...he was just born 30 years too early. he loves his perks, he loves being the man, he loves having fun...he also played a little baseball. never saw a freebie he didnt like and he was/is a fixture in the giants clubhouse way past his employment days. good natured guy, though.

It is looking more likely than ever that Lou Pinella will be new Cub manager. As I've suspected all along, Hendry is not comfortable with Joe Girardi. And there must be a lot more to the story down in Florida. I don't subscribe to the theory that you can neatly chalk up Girardi's ouster from the Marlins to an idiot owner. There is more to the story. And least Jim Hendry has apparently convinced himself of that fact.

The problem for Hendry right now is that he knows he will be publicly skewered the moment he names Pinella manager. I think the naming process is being delayed in the hopes that Girardi takes the job in Texas or Washington first so Hendry can deflect some of the public outcry that is surely to come.

Anyone who isn't old enough to have watched George Reeves as Superman probably doesn't "get" The Cub Reporter.

I voted for Girardi, and see that he is leading comfortably in our voting. In today's Trib, Ed Sherman(how does he keep a job?) has an article about Steve Stone possibly coming back as an announcer. The most notable Stone quote is "I'm a free agent. I'll consider everything except managing. I will not be a manager."

I think announcer and manager are the only jobs in baseball that he's qualified for. I considered voting "Other" with Stone in mind, but that point is moot.

That said, I believe Hendry wants Piniella the most.

yeah, what's yours?

#1) Not adapting his style to the talent given to him

#2) not having his team sufficiently prepared for games

#3) Not EVER taking responsibilty for the team's performance, although never specifically finger-pointing an individual, he always infers it's the coaches, the players or management's fault when things aren't going right.

#4) Letting the players run the team, moving Sosa when Sosa asked to be moved, Nomar plays 3B because Nomar asked,etc, etc.

#5) Basing playing time on seniority rather than skill

I could go on...somewhere around 6-7 would be his lineup construction and in-game management.

Vorare:
"Tiger's regular season record post-Neifi: 16-22"

Are you saying they lost because of Neifi?

I would venture a guess that he's saying they were worse off with Neifi playing everyday.

Chad:

There's an attorney I work with from time to time who is in his late sixties or early seventies. He's a top notch lawyer--Ivy league educated, a marquee partner for years, very well regarded in the legal community here. He also flatly refuses to use email and does 90% of his written communication by regular postal mail (often in longhand). His talent and high regard in the community doesn't make his methodology any less inefficient, outdated, or frustrating.

neifi's situation is weird...beyond his glove and his bat he's a coach, too. very proactive guy when it comes to working with others. he knows batters even if he cant cash it in himself. very smart guy.

he'll become a more valuable coach/manager one day unless he decides to just go home and sip drinks all day.

at least he's detroit's problem now. cubs already have cedeno/theriot/izturis...neifi's just not needed. cedeno might need fielding tips, but the other 2 are good to go.

according to murph:

pinella to giants,

girardi to nats,

charlie brown to cubs

"Are you saying they lost because of Neifi?"

Not really; their poor record down the stretch had more to do with the pitching crapping out. My point was more that Neifi did nothing to positively influence the Tigers, and his numbers demonstrate that clearly.

according to murph:

*FOAM AT MOUTH* *FROTH* *ANGER* BLAH BLAH CUBS! JIM HENDRY KICKED MY DOGS! EVERYTHING SUCKS! I RULE! CUBS WILL LOSE 162! *FOAM* *FOAM* *RAGE*

I AM THE STAR...I GIVE INTERVIEWS WHERE I MAKE STUPID FLAMING STATEMENTS RATHER THAN ASKING QUESTIONS THAT LEAD TO ANSWERS FANS WANT TO KNOW. I DONT FIND NEWS, I MAKE NEWS! WHERE'S MY ESPN JOB? WHERE'S MY ESPN JOB? WHERE'S MY ESPN JOB?!?

according to murph:

giants get a pinella

nats get a girardi

cubs get a rock

we have a contender for Post of the Day

"Figure there are about 40 hardcore 'posters' on here. We each get paid 75K a year (which would be less than what they paid Dusty or what they would pay Lou) and supply us with custom made laptops."
--

you are implying that the 40 "hardcore" TCR posters are worth reading whereas I'd venture to guess that most of us part-timers or sparing posters would probably get even more nauseous being forcefed a Baker vs. Hendry "who's more responsible" by 40 regular posters. Think talk radio, the people who actually call the show tend to be the worst common denominator of the show.

Rob G.:
"I would venture a guess that he's saying they were worse off with Neifi playing everyday."

Neifi got 65 AB's in his 6 weeks with DET. I wouldn't call that everyday.

But don't you think maybe Polanco getting hurt right before they traded for Neifi would be the reason why they were worse off? Not that whoever replaced Polanco was goiong to be worse than him ayways. Just an idea...

Padres realize the importance of the ex-Cub factor....

Manny Alexander, Bellhorn and Williamson cut today

It is sad how many players the Cubs have had over the past couple of years that just get cut or nobody else wants them. Hendry should be proud...

Re: #65 of 74: By vorare

OK great point and well taken. But I am saying that Sabrebaseball is more CB radio than the internet.

how about this Manny? Who gives a F***? He's not our problem anymore and he did play everyday when he first got there and sucked up the place.

He was here for a year and a half, got too much playing time and ultimately hurt the team's chances to win. He may get hot for a stretch or two with the bat, but he has no business sniffing the everyday lineup for a team hoping to contend. I don't care why he was here or who's idea it was to bring him in, it's over and done with.

If he wins a World Series with the Tigers, god bless him. He may even do something positive at some point. It's not going to eat me up inside if he does or anything silly like that. There's a whole list of crappy ballplayers with WS rings, he'll just add to it.

Cubs winning percentage BEFORE trading Neifi
.427

Cubs winning percentage AFTER trading Neifi
.407

I'm sure this proves something or maybe not.

some SABR stats (and SABR-lumped produced stats by non-SABR guys) are useful.

but unless its a specific stat for a specific look at a part of a game, some are useless on their own.

there's many many ways to get a .350 ob% and what's more important is how they're getting it than what it is.

can they work the entire field? are they relying on others being on base? if they only work one part of the field are they aces at it (t.williams/d.ortiz) or are they just getting lucky? do they have a skill other than 1-dimentional play (f.thomas walk/homer/not-much-else at this point in his career)? if they can get on base for a single/walk does it harm others behind them.

most importantly, you cant put a player in a vacuum and assume his #s would carry over from team to team. a guy's #s arent created in a vacuum and a chunk of player's raw #s are created with the help of the players they're surrounded by.

there's a lotta foul ground in OAK that pitchers make a living off of as far as their #s go. there's a nice bigass wall with a short LF in boston players pimp their doubles (and hits) on.

park adjustments are simply f'n flakey for the most part...just like a lotta defensive stats.

The apparent hiring of Lou Pinella means lots of things. But one thing it surely means is that the Tribune Company is trying its damndest to gussy up this ballclub in a hurry for a possible sale. Pinella coming in means a "win now" strategy. I'll be happier than a pig in sh*t if the Tribune does wind up selling this team.

Rob,

Stoneman (LA3) and Flanagan (Bal) were also players.

CubsBears -- You're making it sound like an announcement has been made about Loupa being the Cubs manager. Do you have some info the rest of us aren't privy to?

where is this piniella hiring coming from? Cause he was pimping for the job yesterday in the papers? Or has something new come out..

CWTP (post #78)-

Great Post...

That is my vote for "post of the day".

Girardi has met for the 2nd time with the Nationals now which means they are pretty serious about hiring him.

The Cubs are pretty close to screwing up a slam dunk no brainer I think.

Cubsbears,

The trib is not the problem with the team. since Hendry has become GM Payroll has been in the at or near the 9 digit range. The next owner might not be able to afford that. The new manager will not add or Subtract value to the team in terms of selling unless he is given a Rick Dipetro (the NYI goallie who signed a 15 year deal) type contract

I got this from MLB trade rumors, but he talked to a guy who runs a site called Japanball.com and he seems bright enough. He said he's heard between $17 to $28 mil for the posting fee for Matsuzaka
and a deal in the $70 mil range (I assume 5 years)

He did say that pretty much all the teams have scouted him although not specifically mentioning the Cubs.

Speaking of crappy ex-Cubs who get lucky and wind up on winners,

With their 1-0 win over the Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks the Nippon-Ham Fighters captured the Pacific League Championship and qualified for the Japan World Series for the first time in 25 years ( http://tinyurl.com/yeolem ) thanks in part to the services of one JOSE MACIAS (.229/.264/.344 - 227 AB)wow!

The star of the Hawks? None other than former Cubs infielder JULIO ZULETA.

BTW, Trey Hillman, Fighters manager, is being considered for the Rangers job ( http://tinyurl.com/y9nuje ).

why's everyone up on girardi's crotch like he's a $1000 ho anyway?

what happened to the "warning signs" of a few months ago that put a lotta people off him?

didnt dust rolling into town as a savior put people off all this "manager making wins" stuff?

seen girardi's lineups? his use of bullpen? his affection for the bunt? his early troubles with his yankee-cloned rules for the clubhouse? the bitching over management that went well beyond an owner/manager pissing contest? the proposed use of youth that girardi saw for the marlins vs. the upper management and how girardi rolled over them?

Oh, yeah, "The Authority" - MLB Trade Rumors.

"I don't subscribe to the theory that you can neatly chalk up Girardi's ouster from the Marlins to an idiot owner. There is more to the story. And least Jim Hendry has apparently convinced himself of that fact."

#60 CubsBears, there is, Girardi didn't get along with Marlin's GM Larry Beinfest either. Girardi's a bit of a control freak, a my way or the highway" philosophy, and they butted heads over the roster.

espn1000 has been reporting that Brenly and Hendry are meeting right now. According to Tim Kurkjian, Pinella wants the Cubs job and he may be the frontrunner, however Kurkjian also noted that Girardi's interview was said to have gone "really well"...which was the same report on his meeting with the Nats....then again when do you ever hear that a interview in the baseball world went really poorly.

"Glavine says he's retiring once he hits 300 wins. Let me add how awesome it would be if he retired the day after he reached 300 ala that Bernie Mac movie. "Mr. 300""

More notably when John Kruk singled in what became his final AB with the White Sox...got his lifetime avg over .300 and called for a pinch runner and hung up his spikes after the game.

Awww, now you're going all mushy on me mannytrillo.

IMO, Matsuzaka is going to be a Yankee.

just posting info from a 3rd-party source, it's not from MLB trade rumors directly..sheesh.

Sorry...sorry. I think quite a few of us have, umm, varying opinions on the 'rumors' of "MLB Trade Rumors"

dont worry, if the MLB Trade Rumors info is wrong, it'll magically edit itself hours/days later to make itself right.

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!@#!@#!

Macias is barely posting a 600 OPS in Japan. Christ, how did this dude ever see the field???

I'll take Girardi fighting with managment over Dusty sleepwalking and throwing his arms up in the air any day. Of course it sounds more and more like that rift was a whole lot of nothing that really stemmed between Beinfest and Loria disagreing in the first plae.

If it comes down to LouPa vs Girardi, I wouldn't mind much either way. I wouldn't be too happy either way, but they'll each have to do quite the butcher job to equal the insanity we had to witness the last 4 years.

Btw, just shocked that Dusty is barely being even mentioned right now for any openings.

good lord, just posting some answers from a guy who runs a respectfully looking site on Japanese baseball. I just happened to find it through there. chill....

dust is pricing himself outta invitations supposedly.

he's probally not gonna go the baylor-route, though he'd probally be a good hitting coach. dust has a long history of correcting people's swings for better contact.

dust's biggest downfall in this market is there's not a team of attitudes that need shakeup managing to get their investments acting like ballplayers not divas.

he would have been a nice option for CIN last year.

dust is pricing himself outta invitations supposedly.

Giants weren't calling no matter the price, Texas didn't sound like they were even thinking about him and the Nats supposedly were going to interview him. So where did that come from?

"how about this Manny? Who gives a F***? He's not our problem anymore and he did play everyday when he first got there and sucked up the place."

This is the post of the day.

Or, since Murph's getting so much mention, why don't we call this the "Brown's Fried Chicken Caller of the Show!"

You've just won dinner for 2 at Brown's Beef and Chicken.

"dust's biggest downfall in this market is there's not a team of attitudes that need shakeup managing to get their investments acting like ballplayers not divas."

I think Dust's biggest downfall is that he just finished a 4 year stint with a team that was immensely talented when he arrived and was in the grave when he left.

"So where did that come from?"

3rd hand radio speculation from ESPN radio weeks ago...

not to * it, but that is why i threw in the 'supposedly'.

I just hope a manager decision is made ASAP so then Hendry can get focused on improving this pathetic team. Getting the ARam situation taken care of is vital and the manager search is only slowing that down. Yes, Hendry still has a few weeks with ARam, but hopefully we can start getting these loose ends tied up ASAP before time starts running out. I mean, Hendry has technically had months (after July 31) to try and work out a new deal.

"I think Dust's biggest downfall is that he just finished a 4 year stint with a team that was immensely talented when he arrived and was in the grave when he left."

almost everyone who played under those years did on par or better than they usually do under baker. hardly anyone left to go on to be pimps for other clubs because baker held them back somehow.

too bad too many key injuries and guys being counted on didnt show up.

the tallent is there...the lack of tallent, too...and injury.

Crunch, I agree with your points regarding Girardi 100%. Look, I like Girardi too. But I am not naive enough to chalk up his ouster in Florida to an idiot owner. Larry Beinfast is one of the best and most underrated GMs in baseball (HE is the guy that built that farm system and made all the trades for excellent young talent), yet he despises Girardi for some apparent reason. Were there is smoke, there is fire. And you are right. This love affair with Girardi is too good to be true.

Am I wild about Lou Pinella? Not particularly. Do I understand the attraction of Lou Pinella to our dull-witted and in denial General Manager? No. But I can understand if Hendry passes on Girardi. And I guess I shall respect his decision for what he sees as valid reasons.

Tim Kurkjian reported on Mike and Mike in the Morning that Lou Pinella is the choice of the Cubs. Kurkjian is a reporter, and all reporters are full of B.S. But generally speaking he doesn't fabricate and his pronouncements do wind up being correct.

it was reported the two sides already exchanged numbers so far, it's not like they need to get locked in a room for 8 hrs straight to hammer out a deal.

Beyond A-ram and Pierre maybe, there's absolutely no other urgency until 15 days after the Series ends. Z won't be dealt with until arbitration time or spring training like the last 3 times hendry went through this (Lee, Ramirez, Wood). Organizational meetings I believe are in the beginning of Nov when they'll put together there off-season game plan.

BJS-
Too bad Vorare and Crunch and Chad were also talking about Neifi. Even Rob G. had a paragraph or two talking about Neifi. Maybe Rob was talking about himself.

Or maybe Rob G. should take his own advice, when it comes to Dusty Baker:
"how about this Rob G.? Who gives a F***? He's not our problem anymore"

i should have said finalize there offseason game plan, that would be more appropriate.

I guess it's just a matter of preference. Girardi seems more of a teacher so he would be better with the Murton and Rich Hills of the Cubs. Pinella is from the Baker school of vet player honks though he doesn't seem to be as hardheadly stubborn by conjoining himself to worthless oddbodies like Neifi and Macias or Calvin Murray. Though if a player calls the Tampa area as home, Pinella would probably push Hendry to acquire him. If 2007 is as ugly for the Cubs as this season was and the Cubs brass actually do have the marbles to rebuild(unlikely) this club, the Pinella situation could be as ugly as Baker's has been the last 2 years. That's the one factor I would side with Girardi on. I would never expect the Cubs to endure a complete rebuild because the TribCo would never allow it, they'd just rather use vet stopgaps, but if Prior and Wood are their useless selves again next season and Hill regresses and Murton and Cedeno show no improvement then a rebuild has to get done.

From the our country is pathetic dept. Cory Lidle signed baseballs are selling for over $300 on ebay.

Enough with the criticism of Dusty Baker. I've been following the Cubs for three decades. And if there is one truism, it's that Cub fans notoriously overrate the importance of manager. Chicago has become graveyard for managers because post-Dallas Green we have had incompetence running amuk in the front office. Jim Hendry is the fool who invested enormous faith three consecutive seasons in a row that the enigmatic and injury plagued Kerry Wood could come thru and that the big pussy Mark Prior could overcome his vaginitis. Hendry is the one that didn't address the starting pitching. Hendry is the one who signed Ryan Dumpster to a ridiculous contract. Hendry is the one who saddled this team with any everyday outfield of Matt Murton, Juan Pierre and Jacque Jones, which as we leared is woefully inadequate in terms of run production. Hendry is the one who foiled Mr. Craptastic Augie Cedeno on us as an everyday middle infielder. Hendry is the one who acquired a starting catcher who can't block the plate, can't throw, doesn't work well with pitchers and doesn't call a good game. Etc...

The Cubs can exhume Casey Stengel from the grave and he wouldn't do much better than Dusty did with his abomination of a roster and farm system. Does Dusty deserve criticism? Sure he does. But he ain't the primary reason this thing is severely broken. And if anybody thinks a new manager, be it Girardi or Pinella or Leo Durocher, is going to turn this thing around in one year, well then I've got some swamp land to sell ya.

I wasn't piling on you manny. I'm in agreement with the point made, it just happened to have your name in it.

The Tigers steamrolled the AL in the first half and Neifi was brought in as a replacement when a productive player was injured.
The point is that just because the Tigers are batting Neifi second (even in the playoffs), it doesn't justify the fact that Dusty did it far, far too often.

CUBSBEARS: As you've seen in my "Stiffs Player's List", I totally agree.

HEndry has been living on his '03 laurels through some terrible player personnel decisions.

It is true that until this broken ship is righted, the manager chosen will not make nuch of a difference.

"From the our country is pathetic dept. Cory Lidle signed baseballs are selling for over $300 on ebay."

bit off topic, but this is a condition of our society.

for those that i didnt lose after that first sentence let me expand on that.

americans, on whole, are VERY disconnected from our heritage. we are very ignorant of our true history and we don't have much to latch onto as far as values and norms that are connected to our past. we have 3rd/4th+ generation whites that still go around with irish/itallian pride that don't really have any real connection with those societies outside of the food and things to buy that associate themselves with the group.

we're a very economic driven society. we place a lot of importance on things other than social issues. its quite ironic considering the amount of socialist/communist immigration that brought a lotta these white europeons over here to begin with.

for the most part a lotta that is gone now. we greive with money. very few other societies do that. we also dont smoke our medication or fear that our ancesors souls are present in animals, either. its just a trait present.

these expenses are not investments and they make no sense. its grieving. quite odd, but still stands over time. its a lot more obvious in the internet age. remember mike daar?

meh...

I love how one sentence is a paragraph or two. I offered a small clarification on something you asked, you wanted to push on trying to prove some obsolete point about Neifi from months ago and I went off.

yeah the tirade had your name in it, but it applied to the whole topic.

As for Dusty, it's a thread on manager's and we're still searching for one. How different or similar the next manager is and comparisions are still significant in my opinion.

I do hope to barely recognize Dusty once we hire the new guy.

# 72

THERE is your big post of the day!!!!!

Girardi in Florida:
Facts:
* Beinfest wanted Fredi
* Loria hired Girardi
* Girardi didn't know about the fire sale before he took the job
* Girardi told Loria to shut the fuck up at a game in August

I think it's pretty easy to go from that to speculating that Girardi was extra cranky in his dealings with the front office because he felt misled, and when he took that out on Loria in August when Loria was being a jackass at a game he literally had zero people on his side and Beinfest got to bring his guy in instead.

meh, look what I started. I point out a few posts that were innocent and amusing to me, none of them personal at all in their nature or insulting and now you guys are using it to take potshots at people.

Sorry I started it...

Crunch,

I think it comes down to this: Our country used to make things, now we buy things. After 9/11 the message from the President was, "Go spend money." Consuming is our answer for almost everything. Can a country based on consumption maintain its soul and in the end even last? I guess we'll have to stay tuned to find out.

TBONE:
"Our country used to make things, now we buy things."

Unfortunately, it's too expensive for our country to both make and buy things in this era of globalization.

As long as we're going to stick with the outdated notion that unions are a benefit to society at large, this country's ability to manufacture quality products at competitive prices will continue to decline.

On that note, I realize this is a Cubs blog.

Pinella mentioned something the other day about Bud Selig not wanting any big news to come out during the playoffs for fear that it will distract from the games. Does anyone know if that is correct? If it is, we probably shouldn't expect an announcement on a new manager until after the WS.

Doug,

yes, hopefully everyone else realizes that very quickly too. :)

Bud says that every year, particularly during the World Series he doesn't want any major announcements. There's just not a whole lot he can do about it. But it's something to keep in mind if things get real quiet about the manager and Ramirez in the very near future.

Americans are entrepreneurial and generally commerce minded. We have been since Day One. Sometimes that manifests itself in the development of groundbreaking technologies (mass production, sophisticated satellites, computers), sometimes it manifests itself in slightly tacky commercialism (flag sales after 9/11, Lidle's autograph skyrocketing), and to keep things vaguely on topic, sometimes it manifests itself in professional sports leagues that measure attendance in the millions and revenue in the billions.

You can't decry something like the Lidle autograph boom as the fall of Western civilization without doing the same thing next time you're able to buy a month's supply of toilet paper for less than the cost of a pitcher of beer.

"Pinella is from the Baker school of vet player honks though he doesn't seem to be as hardheadly stubborn by conjoining himself to worthless oddbodies like Neifi and Macias or Calvin Murray."
----

This is one reason why I don't think Lou is white Dusty. He also won't look for any excuse to defect blame when his team loses, or plays bad baseball. He'll demand his players worry about what's on the field and play hard.
He's certainly not my first choice, but Lou Piniella is not Dusty.
I don't know if anyone happened to hear this last night, but Lou spent a couple of minutes talking about the importance of protecting young pitchers like Leyland has attempted to do with Verlander. He said young pitching is a precious commodity and should be watched closely.
I don't know to what degree, but he said they used that approach with Kazmir in TB. He pitched 186 innings...

DD,

A little over 6% of the U.S. workforce is unionized. If you don't like unions, I think your battle has already been won. Do you really think any western country can compete with Indonesian children making sneakers for less than a dollar a day? I don't think this is a union issue, If you want America to compete open some good old fashioned 19th century factories here filled with child labor and we'll give 'em a run for their money.

Oh yea. Hendry must go.

unless Neifi or Darren is working in that factory, can we change topics, quickly?

dude, sweatshops 'n things ain't for The Cubs Reporter.

well it could be for The Cubs Reporter, but yeah, not for The Cub Reporter.

j/k...

But Lou also said on FOX dring Game #2 of the ALCS that he liked Leyland's lineup (which included Neifi in the 2 hole).

Also, as Kazmir is a perfect example of this year, over protecting young arms doesn't mean anything as they can still get hurt. It is a good concept, but shows no proof of getting matching results. Also Kazmir averaged well over 100 pitches per start in 2005, so I don't know what Pinnela was talking about. Yes he only pitched 187 innings, but that was because his WHIP was like almost 1.50. It wasn't like Pinnela was taking him out in teh 6th inning when he was pitching a shut out to protect him.

I will forever laugh by those who insist Dusty Baker is/was anti-young players. Fact is Dusty was one million percent vindicated in the cases of Hee Seop Choi (played for 4 organizations, currently looking for work), Bobby Hill (played for 3 organizations, currently looking for work), Jason Dubois (played for 2 organizations, currently looking for work), Brendan Harris, etc. If memory serves, Dusty gave Mr. Craptastic Augie Cedeno gobs of playing time.

Give Dusty capable young talent and he will play it. I'm sure the same can be said for Lou Pinella too. Jim Hendry's failed minor league system is the problem, not the damned manager.

I'm Dusty. You know, the CubS Reporter.
How about the Cub Reporters?
I'm dumb.

Cubsbear:

How have Eric Karros, Randall Simon, Lenny Harris, Tony Womack, and Todd Hollandsworth looked since leaving Cubby blue? You can't play the "no good rookies" card unless you can prove that the vets he used in place of those rookies were worth a damn.

"I will forever laugh by those who insist Dusty Baker is/was anti-young players."

You will forever be laughed at.
Murton is benched then platooned during the inevitable rookie slump, but Dusty has to see Jacque fail with his own eyes, which he does in a convincing manner, yet he still plays virtually every day. Several years of professional MLB stats aren't enough to persuade Dusty.

I laugh at people like Cubs bear who say Dusty had no preference of veterans over rookies.

All I have to show is exhbit one. Ryan Theriot called up and I quote from Dusty "to be a spark plug" early in the season. He was up for what 3-4 weeks saw 4 AB's?

Tony Womack was recently released cuz he sucked so bad and I quote from Dusty "to be a spark plug" and instantly granted starting time.

I guess Dusty has two different standards of what a spark plug is based off of service time. Either that or he is a hypocrite and talks out his ass most of the time. I will go with the later.

Jacque Jones checked in with a good and better than expected offensive campaign. Matt Murton was providing little run production from left field for a long spell. And Murton did wind up playing extensively for a first year player. Again, I can't fault Dusty's usage of players too much when the options at hand were damned pathetic to non-existent.

Jim Hendry's horribly failed minor league system is to blame. Give the manager a suitable platoon option in right field, and Jacque Jones will sit against left-handers. It's as simple as that.

"Americans are entrepreneurial and generally commerce minded. We have been since Day One."

this is a myth and plays into the part about our true history vs. what our real history is. that IS our history since around 1880+, though.

there's not much of a fine line between robber barrons and 'captains of industry'...it all depends on what history book you read.

we were not a country built on God...the Civil War was not about slavery...the unions are not enemies and have given us most of the protections from employers/govt. we enjoy and take for granted today. unions and "muckrakers" are why we have some of the morally-sane laws that were fought and died for years ago.

about all these industries leaving the US for cheap labor, horrible environmental laws, etc...you think these companies are american?

you know how many corporations pay taxes? you know why a lotta your medications are made in puerto rico? you know how much worse all this has gotten since the 80s...the outsourcing of american jobs? ...its not the worker's fault.

its like this immigration thing...build a few billion dollar wall...its cheaper than going after why they're here to begin with...the employers.

I also remember the great John Mabry and Henry Blanco playing 1b when we had Scott Moore on the roster. I guess that is Hendry's fault as well.

What the hell did it prove to play Mabry and Blanco at 1b the rest of the season? Would have been nice to see Moore get those AB's and see what he has.

Don't know if anyone else has seen this-

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sp...

Lou's "friends" saying Lou said Cubs would be best fit for prestige and geography.

And that the Nats would take Girardi if that happens.

Can anyone else remember so much clamoring to manage a 90 plus losing team?

90 loss team or not, its still a 100m payroll.

that's a chance almost automatically every year.

pray the GM gets lucky and people stay healthy.

I hate to break this to anyone, but Scott Moore has about as much of a major league future as does Jason Dubois. I can hardly fault the former regime for opting to go with Mabry, Nevin, etc. instead of Moore, who by the way isn't a 1st baseman by trade.

The Cubs are turning into a Homeresque epic.

Their siren call keeps bringing captains(Dusty,LouPa) and sailors(Nomar,Maddux)into the ivy covered rocks to parish.

"Also Kazmir averaged well over 100 pitches per start in 2005, so I don't know what Pinnela was talking about. Yes he only pitched 187 innings, but that was because his WHIP was like almost 1.50. It wasn't like Pinnela was taking him out in teh 6th inning when he was pitching a shut out to protect him."
-

If by well over, you mean 103 pitches per start, then yes. 186 innings pitched, average of 103 pitches per start.

How about comparing Lou's use of talented young Kazmir in his first full season against Dusty's use of talented young Prior in his first full season?

Lets...

Kazmir (32 starts) in 2005 vs. Prior (30 starts) in 2003

games over 100 pitches
Kazmir:22
Prior:25

games over 110 pitches
Kazmir:11
Prior:20

games over 115 pitches
Kazmir:3
Prior:15

games over 120 pitches
Kazmir:1
Prior:9

games over 130 pitches
Kazmir:0
Prior:3

How do you like that? There's a significant difference. Not only that, but Dusty rode Prior like a wild horse in Sept. and October.

Now that someone has explained it to you, maybe you know what Piniella is talking about. Or would you rather just not hear that Dusty is a notorious punisher of starting pitchers?

If I wanted liberal political commentary on the wondrous virtues of unions, I'd turn on NPR or visit a blog site operated by that bull dyke Rosie O'Donnell or something. Purpose of this blog is to exchange thought on the Chicago Cubs National League Baseball Club.

"Moore, who by the way isn't a 1st baseman by trade"

He's Aram's replacement if I recall some posters thought.

And Ryan Theriot was complete garbage and has opened the eyes that maybe he isn't.

Thank our lucky stars Neifi was traded and Izturis was injured because we would still be thinking Theriot is a garbage player instead wondering what we have seen is the real deal or a mirage.

But hey Mabry and Blanco will soon be free agents and Moore will still be with the Cubs. I am sure damn glad I got to see what Mabry and Blanco could do for our 66 win team. It will really help us out for next year.

Jayson Stark just echoed what Tim Kurkjian reported on Mike and Mike in the Morning earlier in the day. And that is THE OPINION that Lou Pinella has the inside track to get the Cub job. Stark and Kurkjian are two reporters I generally respect. So therefore I'm starting to think Sweet Lou is the guy.

Aramis Ramirez might want to practice how to run out ground balls down in the Dominican. Because Sweet Lou is going to plant a size 12 shoe up his ass if he pulls anymore of his lollygaggin crap in a Cub uniform.

"If I wanted liberal political commentary on the wondrous virtues of unions, I'd turn on NPR or visit a blog site operated by that bull dyke Rosie O'Donnell or something."

whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

enjoy your baseless hate of things you dont understand.

Yes, you are way to smart for us mere mortals to comprehend.

Give me a break.

"Give the manager a suitable platoon option in right field, and Jacque Jones will sit against left-handers. It's as simple as that."
---

Am I the only one calling total bullshit on this?
It certainly isn't as "simple as that".
Dusty was NOT going to platoon Jacque, that's simple.
Pagan would have been a much better option to face lefties, but it didn't happen. Instead, Pagan was platooned with Murton, a very talented young player who shouldn't have been platooning in a lost, pointless season.

"Yes, you are way to smart for us mere mortals to comprehend."

well, at least you can show your face for this comment.

just cuz its something you dont wanna hear or think about doesn't mean its untrue.

using "liberal" as a negative...calling someone a bull dyke...and having "asshole" in the fake email addy. yeah, me calling out anger is totally baseless. gimmie a break =p

I shall reserve judgment on Ryan Theriot for now. Up until his mid-season call-up by the Cubs Theriot was an aging minor leaguer with a dubious track record. I suspect that his offensive production won't be nearly the same once major league pitchers develop a book on him. Plus, he doesn't really have the defensive chops to play an adequate 2nd base on an everyday basis form the things I've read. That said, he definitely should be granted opportunity to win a roster spot in spring training. However, penciling him into the lineup would be a fool's exercise. Chances are he is the next Chadd Meyers as opposed to the next Dan Uggla.

Crunch,

I'll just say this: go read about the Virginia Company of London and the real reasons for colonization of the New World. If there's a myth, it's that the colonialists were high minded idealists fleeing from persecution and intolerance. That said, I'll drop the issue to avoid driving Rob's blood pressure up any further. ;)

BJS:
"How do you like that? There's a significant difference."

Yes and another BIG difference was considering the Cubs were in a pennant race and TB was going after 100 losses. Also, prior had a month to rest in the middle of the season.

But one BIG similarity yo didn't mention, they both got hurt!!!! Maybe you will now understand that "protecting" a pitcher will not prevent him from getting hurt.

"just cuz its something you dont wanna hear or think about doesn't mean its untrue."

It's something I definately don't agree with, and because we disagree, doesn't make your correct.

"using "liberal" as a negative...calling someone a bull dyke...and having "asshole" in the fake email addy. yeah, me calling out anger is totally baseless. gimmie a break =p"

That wasn't me in the post making those comments and this is not the correct forum for this discussion, as Rob has pointed out numerous times now.

Lets get back to Cubs baseball.

Big John, take a look at Angel Pagan's numbers versus left-handed pitching. Not too good. While I too didn't like Jones playing against certain pitchers, I can understand why Dusty stuck with him. No Derrek Lee and downright awful options on the bench. Pagan was lucky to even have a major league gig in 2006. And as much as the Jones acquisition made me sick, I have to admit he produced at a level that was solid by season's conclusion.

Crunch--Quit it...

You argue and refute simply for the sake of arguing. I don't have examples....I don't care enough....I don't keep nor look through archives. You're the sole reason I go away and don't read nor write much on here......and some may say GOOD. I can live with that....but you're incessant badgering causes some really good people to ignore a great discussion board. Stop attacking!!!!!!!!!

To your point about unions........you're wrong. Those are all the facts you give, so that's all I'm giving. Take a look at Maytag/Whirlpool...very close to me cuz I live in the town of their ex-headquarters. Blame goes EVERYWHERE.....to the union, the marketing people, the strategists....even to the consumer. Again....that's all the logic you get because that's all you ever give.

Wanna argue about it???? You can reach me via email and we'll go off-discussion board.

Until the proprietor's of the board appoint you as the Seargeant-in-Arms of this little Klatch, you are, IMHO...a confrontational idiot.

ROB--RUIZ....whooever makes decisions about such things, go ahead and bounce me out now. This guy is under my skin......I'm sick of reading his rants.....so I'd not really be missing much anyway.

HOORAYYYYYY BASEBALL!!!!!

Joey

Nobody is going to platoon JJ. He wasn't in MINN (by neither Kelly nor Gardnehire), he wasn't last year and he won't be next year, no matter who the manager is. Unless they add two big OF bats and the yplatoon Murton and JJ at one of the corner OF spots, which ain't happening.

And Murton was not platooned. He was given some time to sit down after his pathetic 6-8 weeks stretch, but he still ended up with 450 AB's.

just cuz its something you dont wanna hear or think about doesn't mean its untrue.

No, it smply has nothing to do with baseball, that's why no one wants to hear it.

"THE CUB REPORTER"
"analyzing the Cubs to death since July, 2001"

nothing about social and political commentary. Knock this crap off.

sweet lou reunited (and it feels so good) with arod...

oh totally...v...we were colonized by companies that sought to exploit the natural resources and expand territory here.

once the people became "free" and independant of their service from the companies they had to shape the country.

----

"You argue and refute simply for the sake of arguing. I don't have examples....I don't care enough....I don't keep nor look through archives."

and im arguing for the sake of arguing? =p

btw, its impossible to compete with countries without environmental laws where minimum wage in a day is less than a week's work here. its not a matter of an insurance matter or 2-3 dollars more an hour. its as old as america, itself...the story of labor and industry here has made us who we are and its not going to fix itself. and consumers generally do not even care at all...we all have homes filled with items that are made in other countries.

if you wanna find out a quick lesson on all this...go find out why a lotta our medications are produced in puerto rico and what benefit that makes for us average americans...

"nothing about social and political commentary. Knock this crap off."

fine...and yes i wrote that last bit before you wrote that...feel free to delete all the posts if you wish. understandable.

all i was trying to do was cover the "$300 lidle baseball" sales.

manny must have tuned out around july/august or something, cause I recall a pretty strict pagan/murton platoon for awhile, until pagan sucked so bad and murton hit like Adam Dunn that even Dusty couldn't do it any longer.

Pagan was out for most of the time anyway when he could have been platooning for Jacque, tough to knock Dusty on that one. He certainly could have used Restovich or Nevin when he got here though. Of course he thought it would be a good idea to put Neifi/Jerry at 2nd and play Walker at 1b, so what do you expect?

as for joey's comments, no big whoop, crunch needed to go off on some historical/politcial/social rant for no real reason, he brought it on himself.

But i'm deleting that stuff on this thread from here on out...

MoSieslak - "he doesn't really have the defensive chops to play an adequate 2nd base on an everyday basis form the things I've read..."

Did you make that up? It's not credible. From my seat in the stands, nobody in the Cubs system this year looked more professional and "ready" than Ryan Theriot. And his performance proved it. Are you confusing him with Cedeno?

Is there a way to block IP addresses from the message board?

Just wondering.

"But one BIG similarity yo didn't mention, they both got hurt!!!! Maybe you will now understand that "protecting" a pitcher will not prevent him from getting hurt."
---

I didn't have to mention it, everyone already knows he was injured this year and it's not even the point.
The point is something you'll never understand: regardless of whether or not protecting young pitchers helps any one particular pitcher, you need to do it with every young pitcher. They are the future of every organization and should be treated as such.

I completely understand there's no guarantee that Verlander won't suffer an injury this week, next week, or next year. But Leyland wasn't a stubborn, wreckless jackass with him the way Dusty F. Baker was with Prior and Zambrano.

I can ban people, but no, you cannot block people you don't want to read.

I rarely do it though, you'd really have to go off the deep end personally insulting people or trying to sabotage the site. And I've got more tolerance for folks who have been posting for awhile.

"That wasn't me in the post making those comments and this is not the correct forum for this discussion"

didnt say that was you though i can see how you might think that...just to clear that up and keep it politics-free.

Crunch:

[BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH]
Rob G.

adam dunn?

back to the Cubs, Giradi with a healthy lead in the poll.

59% Girardi
16% Piniella
10% Bochy
8% Other
6% Brenly
1% Quade
0% Listach

Did anyone notice:

A: Spelling does not count but i found it really funny that when the poster "mosieslak" misspelled the Simpsons character he inadvertently (or on purpose) spell it Moises.

and

B: That two posts later the word "Homeresque" was used. And yes I understand what that actually was in reference to.

Truth be told, the Cubs are going to probably suck once again in 2007. And I think the Tribune Company already realizes this, but doesn't really care. Chicago is about to go ultra crazy for our Bears because this football team has the makings of being special. And lets not forget a very promising Bulls squad which should go deep into the playoffs. Plus, you got to figure the White Sox will be very solid once again in 2007.

Does all of this bug the Trib? Nah. They still know 3 million of us dopes will fill Wrigley Field regardless.

I would prefer to see the Cubs totally revamp their managerial organizational chart.

I'd like to see a new position--Vice President of Field Operations.

The Field manager would report to the VP of Field Operations and the GM would also report to the VP of Field Operations. The GM and the manager would be lateral positions.

The GM would be responsible for assembling the roster....both minor league and major league rosters. The VP of Field Operations would hire and fire GMs and managers.

This being the case I'd like to see a VP of field operations taking a mentoring role with the new manager. Girardi would be a good choice...but may have more experience than this scenario would allow.

I'd like to see Steve Stone become VP of Field Operations...and act as mentor to a new manager--possibly within another teams minor league system (Oakland, Boston??) The GM would NOT be the boss of the field manager...but rather the logistical person who acquires and assemble the roster the VP of Field Operations and Manager desire. The manager would have MORE say in assembling the team than he does now. The GM would be more of a negotiator and less of a team strategist...basically doing the nuts and bolt work in acquiring/assembling the roster. The GM would have no control over the manager or coaching staff. Basically he would not be a manager of people.....but rather an independent manager who's sole responsibility is maintaining contacts with other teams GM's and acquiring players to assemble the team--the team the manager and VP of Field Operations desire.

So I'd say make Steve Stone the VP of Field Operations
Jim Hendry the GM
and some minor leage manager/coach who Stone feels a close connection to who shares his same baseball philosophy.

I think this would work out great....it would clearly change the direction the Cubs take. It would put more control in the manager--someone to coordinate the teams needs and wants with the one managing the team and the one assembling the team....I think it makes a great deal of sense...

now many may argue about Stone...but I think he knows his baseball--is a very intelligent baseball guy....and knows what attitude is like on winning and losing teams.

Rob G.:
"manny must have tuned out around july/august or something, cause I recall a pretty strict pagan/murton platoon for awhile"

"pretty strict platoon"? What team were you watching? Here is a list of RHP that Murton started against in July (where he ONLY got 50 AB's).

July 8th vs. David Bush
July 16th vs. Orlando Hernandez
July 21st vs. Pedro Astacio
July 24th vs. Steve Trachsel
July 27th vs. Jeff Weaver
July 30th vs. Chris Carpenter

I am sure August the list is even longer since he got 82 AB's. Not even close to a strict platoon. Basically Dusty sat him at the end of June and against some RHP in July right after his slump. When he got his stroke back, he started playing full time again.

Maybe something was clouding your judgement of what happened in REALITY.

*And I think the Tribune Company already realizes this, but doesn't really care. Chicago is about to go ultra crazy for our Bears because this football team has the makings of being special.*

Yeah, one-and-done in the playoffs is "special".

By the way, can someone tell me why the Bears have such an easy schedule AGAIN this year? I'm not talking about having Green Bay and Detroit 4 times, because that's a given, I'm talking about the other stiffs: Arizona? Buffalo? The Jets?

What luck! The Bears get to play their out-of-conference schedule against the worst division there is!

In fact, I just looked it up and it appears as though the Bears strength of schedule is the LOWEST in the NFL. Nice.

So before you get excited, consider that. Just like last year, the Bears are playing a bunch of stiffs (except Seattle, who LUCKY THEM, lost the league MVP the week before they played the Bears).

*Also said that "Lou thinks that this team isn't as far away as people think they are"... FWIW...*

Phht, Dusty thought this team was gonna win it all, dude.

Lou sounds about as dim as Dusty, at least he does during his commentary time. I'd be wary of hiring anyone who sounds so dottering.

ESPN 1000 reports that Soriano has rejected a 5 year/$70M offer from the Nat's, and will not return to the team in 2007.

wrong site but the other divisons you play in the NFL are rotated every 4 years, there's only 2 games a year in your conference deteremined by how you played last year, Giants and Bucs for the Bears this year.

And you should try watching the games and notice how we're trouncing the stiffs this year rather than just getting by.

Maybe something was clouding your judgement of what happened in REALITY.

still fighting for Dusty, bless you son, your doing the lord's work. fine not strict, mostly a platoon, my deep seeded anger for his idiocy probably got in the way. Blah, blah, blah, ding-dong, the witch is dead. They should have planted his head on a post and dragged it around the city for people to throw stuff at.

They should have planted his head on a post and dragged it around the city for people to throw stuff at.

Hey Rob...how did you guess what my halloween costume was going to be?

Dr. NO,

If you are not impressed with the Bears then tell me, Dr., in your professional opinion, who do you like in the NFL? The Colts? Wow they look convincing.

looks like the Score butchered yet another one, Rosenthal has the Padres granting permission for Bochy to be interviewed.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6054546?

Damn No,

I actually threw up a little bit right now as I'm saying this, but I agree with Chad. Have you watched the B play? Shawn Alexander or not, Seattle wasn't winning that game. Name me a team in the NFC that is in the Bears league right now. Indy has squeeked by two awful teams and they are suppose to be 1-2 with the Bears. Damn, you are tough to impress.

I also love how a post on the next manager can turn into the downfall of society. Gooooo Internet

Bears 156
opponents 36

Complete domination.

End -o - subject.

No,

Who are the juggernauts you suggest the Bears play? The Bears happen to be the only team emerging early in the season. Maybe later someone will catch fire (Philly? Pats?) And New England is on the Bears' schedule. So unless there's a way to bring back a great team from the past - maybe a 70s Steelers team or an 80s 49ers team, I really don't see how the Bears will ever live up to your idea of proving themselves.

And Cubfan,

I notice that you propose Stone might pick up someone from one of the teams that worship at the church of James. I heard Stone on the SCORE this season and he has nothing but contempt for the young GMs like Beane and Epstein. He was singing the praises of old baseball men who had payed their dues. So I doubt he would reach into the systems of one of those teams and pull out a manager who could discuss at length the importance of OBP.

The Bears schedule is indeed very easy, but they do play the Giants and Pats on the road in successive weeks. We'll learn a lot about our team on that stretch.

Rob G: looks like the Score butchered yet another one, Rosenthal has the Padres granting permission for Bochy to be interviewed.

And crunch's now-classic post:

crunch
media : have some table scraps.
people : thank you can we have some more?
media : here, suck the marrow from this bone.
people : mmm...this is so good. got anything else?
media : here, lick the plate.
people : oh god, yes.

That was great.

Anyways, this development on Bochy probably means he's getting moved to the top of Hendry's list. He has some unexplained hardon for him. I don't know much about the guy, he seems ok, but I think the "correct" move for the Cubs would be hiring Lou Pinella.

*If you are not impressed with the Bears then tell me, Dr., in your professional opinion, who do you like in the NFL? The Colts? Wow they look convincing.*

So because I have not annointed the Bears Super Bowl XLI champions this means I must like the Colts. Ooookay. Nice logic there, slick.

*And you should try watching the games and notice how we're trouncing the stiffs this year rather than just getting by.*

This could also indicate that the stiffs are just worse this year.

*The Bears schedule is indeed very easy, but they do play the Giants and Pats on the road in successive weeks. We'll learn a lot about our team on that stretch.*

Yup.

*Bears 156
opponents 36

Complete domination.

End -o - subject.*

Yeah, when the opponents are:
The Blind School
The Girls School
The One-legged men

You're going to dominate pretty easily.

It's hilarious to watch the same bunch of dolts dip right back into the same Kool-Aid that killed 'em last year.

"the same Kool-Aid that killed 'em last year."

Yes, because they are the same exact team as last year. Right?

The defense is at top of the league, and the offense is at the bottom...oh check that they are at the top also.

Damn would it be better if the Bears were squeeking out 2 point wins? Jesus dude, if you aren't happy with this start nothing will ever make you happy.

They are beating who they are supposed to beat and beating them handily. What the fuck more do you want?

The Peoria native is my choice. However, does anyone else see Joe and Ramerez butting heads?

AZ Phil: Didnt mean to make it sound like I was picking on you. It's just that I follow the Cubs religiously top to bottom and I KNOW that they are much better run than they were 10 years ago and I get sick of people who dog them. And I know that you weren't dogging them....I just saw Fleita name and flipped out. Didn't mean to overreact cuz I have seen your posts on here and you are a RARE breed: an intelligent Cubs fan.

Mannytrillo: let's see...yes, the Cubs minor league system has went down over the last four years. Who was in charge of the minor league system/scouting/player development from 1995 on? Hmmm. Can't think who would have been charge of taking a dump of a minor league system inherited from Himes/Frey and turned it into respectability (albeit thin on the position players - a little thanks to dusty; see patterson, corey) Can't think who would have moved up four years ago into an management position-thus not being directly in charge of player development....who would that guy be?

Ryno:
"Anyways, this development on Bochy probably means he's getting moved to the top of Hendry's list."

You are absolutely correct. There is really no other reason to ask for permission to talk to Bochy unless the other candidates didn't satisfy you. To me it looks like this is Bochy's job if he wants it. If Hendry did in fact ask for permission.

Oh yeah, Go 670 SCORE, another sham journalism source.

Rob G.:
"still fighting for Dusty, bless you son, your doing the lord's work."

Nope just fighting for the truth, and not revisonist history.

Horatio:
"The Bears schedule is indeed very easy, but they do play the Giants and Pats on the road in successive weeks."

Actually, the Bears play at the NY Giants on November 12th, then play at the NY Jets on November 19th, then play at the NE Patriots on November 26th.

Cappy:
"let's see...yes, the Cubs minor league system has went down over the last four years. Who was in charge of the minor league system/scouting/player development from 1995 on? Hmmm. Can't think who would have been charge of taking a dump of a minor league system inherited from Himes/Frey and turned it into respectability (albeit thin on the position players - a little thanks to dusty; see patterson, corey) Can't think who would have moved up four years ago into an management position-thus not being directly in charge of player development....who would that guy be?"

My point had nothing to do with Hendry, ONLY to do with Flieta, which got your panties in a ruffle. Why are youtalking about Hendry leaving that position, we are talking about Flieta and what HE has done as leader of teh minors. We are talking about Fleita and how under his watch, the minors have gotten worse. You even admit that in your first sentence: "yes, the Cubs minor league system has went down over the last four years." I don't understand how Hendry becoming GM has anything to do with Fleita and how the minors have gotten worse under his watch.

But, If you are saying because Hendry moved up to being GM caused the minors to start going bad, then by all means move him back to that position, because he has failed miserably thus far as GM.

On the BEARS - Actually, of the "36" points the D has given up. 7 was a freebee courtesy of one running back named Cedric, who fumbled inside of two minutes, inside the 20. Half of the Bears D starters were out. I was there.

NO to BOCHY!

Also, F**# ESPN, and "ESPN 1000 reports..."

They are wrong as much as they are right and also report inaccuracies - liked they did when jumping the gun thinking they had a "scoop" in the Lidle crash. "He was by himself" "No - wait - he was with someone else." "No, wait again! He was with his wife."

E-Man-
And 7 of those points were when Grossman threw that stupid pass out of his own endzone vs. MINN and the guy picked it off and ran it back 7 yards.

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