It’s Official

Lou Piniella will be introduced as the next manager of the Chicago Cubs during a press conference tomorrow. Piniella has apparently agreed to a three-year deal with an option for 2010. I think this is a good move for the Cubs. Piniella pretty obviously lost interest while he was managing the Devil Rays, but as bad as the Cubs were this year they were not Tampa bad. It's on Jim Hendry to get Piniella the players that will make the team competitive, if not in '07 than in '08; if he does that I think Piniella will be a good fit -- a good motivator, a decent in-game strategist, and a guy who I think fans will be happy with.
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"In Piniella we win NL Penanta"
"In Lou we won't be Blue"

I'll keep my day job, no worries.

I'm mixed about him, but I'm fine with it...the bottom line is, we need the players on the field to do their job, and the manager is just the top level make or break point...so as far as I'm concerned, Lou is as good for the Cubs at this stage as anyone else.

bummer, if Hendry waited a little he could of had Ken Macha. :)

Piniella vs Girardi, pick your poison. If Piniella's clout gets $20 mil added to the payroll as has been rumored, he's worth it right there. Time will tell if this is any different than the last regime.

Word from the other thread is Rothschild will be back and one of the articles says Piniella is pretty likely to bring McLaren is an his bench coach.

LouPa's batting order preference:

in 2002:
Mark Mclemore with a career .349 OBP (380 for the year) got the most Ab's (225)

Jeff Cirillo was 2nd (182 AB's) (Career) .368, (2002) .301

in 2001:
McLemore again(316 AB's) (Season) .384
Stan Javier (124 AB's) (Career) 345/ (Season) .381
Mike Cameron (110 AB's) (Career) 342/ (Season) .353

in 2000:
Cameron (160 AB's) (Season) .365
Javier (159 AB's) (Season) .351

R. Henderson and Mclemore did most of the leading off that year. Of course Ichiro lead off when he arrived.

Hard to say whether it's speed or on-base ability that he wants up there, maybe he's smart enough to realize you need both. Contact isn't as much an issue as he put Cameron up there and he K's a lot.

Does seem to like to mix-up his lineups a lot much like Dusty did.

Can I throw out the Carl Crawford card again? I will even be nice and say you can have Vernon Wells also.

Got to rape the farm system for it, but hell its worth it.

*snap* Damn it, who ordered the reality?

I suppose a look into the Drays years is necessary although I'm pretending they didn't happen for poor Lou.

2003:
Leadoff man: Carl Crawford with an OBP not worth mentioning on a family site

Baldelli and Lugo got the bulk of the #2 spot Ab's

2004:
More Crawford in the leadoff spot
Lugo and Baldelli in the 2 spot

2005:
Lugo and Crawford interchangaeble in the 1 and 2 spots

I wonder if Lou will push for Lugo at 2b or something like that. I'd prefer he push for Crawford for CF now, but we'll see.

Crawford btw 617 games in LF, only 53 in CF for his career.

"In Piniella we win NL Penanta"
"In Lou we won't be Blue"

I think what you're looking for is:
"On LouPa we poopa"
when he inevitably doesn't live up to our expectations.

sadly, after "though who shalt not be named", I have absolutely no expectations whatsoever for Lou. He can't possibly do worse.

"He can't possibly do worse."

Rob thats one of the best statements anyone has stated about LouPa - it's certainly something almost anyone can agree with!

Stone optimistic, thinks the Cubs will get it done in the next year or two.

Eyre says he wants to see Lou explode at least once. He said he wants to be on the mound when it happens, too, so he can see it up close, lmao

blockhead25: "In Lou we won't be Blue"

"With Pini' we Wini" ?

I think this is the "project" Pinella has been denying he was wanting to take on.

This is probably the worst baseball franchise in the past century. To think this club is positioned to win it all next year is buying into the perrenial "Wait 'till Next Year" mentality.

This club lost just shy of 100 games this year...it is FAR from being positioned to win it all next year. Though baseball teams NEVER have to totally blow it all up....they do have to get rid of a lot of overpriced crap...and go get some very expensive, but great, talent in order to do it. Lou proved he can't be a winner with a crappy team. So unless Hendry goes out and drastically cleans house and brings in better appliances....Lou will repeat the Tampa Bay years. If Hendry gets a great product for the field I have no reason to believe Lou can't win 110 games in Chicago. They key is not LOU...the Key is HENDRY. If we spend 115 million to field a team full of Neifi Perez, Michael Tucker, etc...then this will be a "project" Lou didn't want to take on.

I think Hendry is incapable of fielding a strong winning team as evident he hasn't been able to conduct extension talks with Aramis Ramirez at the same time getting a deal done with Pinella. To field a winner Hendry is going to have to take risks (unwilling to do so..although I'd suggest sitting on your ass doing nothing is the greatest risk he could take)....be willing to make concurrent deals without focusing all his energy on just one guy.....Can Hendry do it? Very doubtful...it's like trying to change his personality....very difficult to do.

Chicago seems to be the place managers go to die--why should we perceive Pinella as having better odds? Chicago has been a horrible franchise for winning....and unless they take a good honest look at what it is they are doing to lose..they will continue to make the same losing mistakes.....
Let's hope Hendry does look honestly...and approach the offseason in a different way...a winning way.

now that the team has a manager the club can get onto less important things, like players.

thank god Savior Part 3 is here...maybe he can make key players stay healthy with mystical managerial powers. hell, just using the #2 slot correctly should lead to at least 30-40 more wins.

Isn't anyone disappointed we're not going to see Girardi back in Cubbie blue??

Cubfan above mentioned "Lou proved he can't be a winner with a crappy team" (Tampa). Well Girardi was the one guy who seemed to inspire a 'crappy team' (FL) to win! I'm genuinely let down by this one.

Syrith - I disagree not to take anything away from Girardi Marlins accomplishment - the Marlins were not a "crappy team" instead teh Marlins were a very low salary team with a great deal of talent. The TB team is a crappy team! Hands Down!BTW I was rooting for Girardi as the new Cubs manager not because what the Marlins did but the winner that Joes has been his whole life!

Girardi did not have a "crappy team".
He had a highly talented team full of youngsters that were expected to lose because they were young. Girardi also had one of the best pitching staffs in the NL.

Beat me to it, you sonuvabitch...

to be fair to Syrith, it's a lot easier to call the Marlins a "highly talented team full of youngsters" or a "low salary team with a great deal of talent" after the fact. The truth is that they were projected to lose up to 100 games in '06.

I'm not sure the Cubs felt comfortable giving the "Second best" managerial job in baseball to a manager with one year big league managing experience. Girardi (IMO) did a fabulous job with Florida...but still his team finished under .500 I'm sure the Cubs looked at Girardi as "too risky"....and time will only tell if it was a good call on the Cubs or a bad one. I like Joe and believe he'd do much better than league average...and much better than sit on my ass Baker....

I'm not sure the Cubs felt comfortable giving the "Second best" managerial job in baseball to a manager with one year big league managing experience. Girardi (IMO) did a fabulous job with Florida...but still his team finished under .500 I'm sure the Cubs looked at Girardi as "too risky"....and time will only tell if it was a good call on the Cubs or a bad one. I like Joe and believe he'd do much better than league average...and much better than sit on my ass Baker....

"This is probably the worst baseball franchise in the past century. To think this club is positioned to win it all next year is buying into the perrenial "Wait 'till Next Year" mentality."

I would say Cleveland is worse. If for nothing else, they are in Cleveland.

girardi's young...if he wants to keep on this route and can manage not to piss off too many more possible employeers he'll work for a long time.

he needs to learn spanish. he will probally never make it onto a team who lures tallent by spending without knowing it or latching onto a bench coach who's fluent with it who will stick by him.

we could be hearing about him in 3-4 years...

If you consider how bad the Detroit Tigers were in 2003 and look at them today why can't the Cubs change course and do it as well. Especially when you consider how watered down the talent is in the National League especially the Central. Lets see what the team looks like in Spring Training!

Do Cox and Torre know Spanish? Larussa? Macha? Tracy? honest questions.

i have my doubts that it influences hiring decisions all that much.

Fredi Gonzalez didn't join the Braves until a few years ago, so don't pull that out.

i feel a little bad for girardi because this was a chance for him to manage his favorite team, but we turned him down. i'm sure he understands the cubs point of view, going with the more experienced lou, but i bet he's still a little hurt. it might work out down the road that we're looking for another new manager when joe is looking for a new job again, but it doesnt seem all that likely. this could have been his only chance.

has any mention been made of lou having an out clause in the event the yankee job opens up while lou is in chicago?

and i wonder if quade will get any phonecalls to return to the a's as their new manager...

girardi is young. there is still plenty of time for him to wear cubbie blue again. say, in three or five years, and one world series later.

knowing spanish isnt a "must have" but a LOT more managers speak it than people would realize.

those that dont speak it usually keep a guy by their side that's an attachment to the manager...like l.sojo for the yanks.

cox/torre speak "conversational" spanish..larussa speaks it...tracy speaks it...macha, i dunno.

I am just wondering who we are going to get next year once Lou bolts for the Yankees job next offseason

You can tell how much Joe not knowing Spanish really hurt him. Just read all the horrible things his players said about him....oh wait.....just look at how little effort his players gave him because he didn't know spanish....oh wait.....nevermind

I would agree that you'd want someone your staff who can speak Spanish at least and that makes me wonder how much influence Girardi had on his staff last year anyway. Being a 1st year manager and all, you'd think the powers that be would have realized to put someone there to interpret.

in the managar carousel, who's next to land?

Girardi to Nats seems obvious
Hillman to Rangers maybe
Macha to Giants?
Geren or Washington in Oakland

I want to see Girardi go to Oakland, he'd do great there.

With Hendry still at the controls, changing managers is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. Let's see if Hendry can find some players this year. Although the resignation of Andy MacPhail was clearly a step in the right direction.

"You can tell how much Joe not knowing Spanish really hurt him. Just read all the horrible things his players said about him"

well, yeah...there was more than a few comments about it in march/april/may...it caused more than just a little friction when the team showed up for spring and had to run down other PLAYERS to translate for them so they can talk to the guy who's gonna determine their role on the club.

cabrerra, a known asshole btw, complained pretty loudly about that lack of oversight leading to trade rumors before ST camp even ended.

that was his first big mistake and it was a hell of an oversight.

btw, you cant pretend not beign multi-lingual in this particular workplace isnt something people look for in a manager no matter how important any of us think it is or isnt.

we have cubs that dont speak english.

"Pinella makes Cubbies Jell-a"

"In Lou we finish #2"

sadly, after "though who shalt not be named", I have absolutely no expectations whatsoever for Lou. He can't possibly do worse.

Of course he can. It's quite likely he will, although I hope you're right.

Baker's career Win%: .527
Piniella's career Win%: .517

Baker's wins over .500: 121
Piniella's wins over .500: 99

Considering that Piniella has managed 735 games more than Baker, that last stat is the more troubling.

On the bright side, if Piniella manages to his career averages, he'll be good for an average of just over three wins more per year than what Dusty got.

I would have to think there would have been some very forward and frank discussions in negotiations with Pinella in terms of the prospect of the Yankees job opening up next year. I'm sure there is some mutual understanding in terms of how that situation will be handled if it arises. My thought is maybe if this year is awful, that the Cubs would agree to a buyout of some kind (yanks pay Cubs)...or that Pinella agreed to forgo the opportunity, period.

Scott De B. I don't think it's fair to compare Dusty and Lou on those terms, because they both have managed very different types of teams...including Lou getting hit hard with Tampa Bay for a couple years.

"I want to see Girardi go to Oakland, he'd do great there."

You're kidding, right?

I've mentioned numerous times how completely worthless I find won/loss records for managers. And I assume pre-Drays days, the numbers are about the same anyway.

And Lou's got a ring and more division titles anyway. (I think)

Lou obviously didn't have to take this gig as he had a cush TV job. He could of just stayed in broadcasting and waited next year for the inevitable Yankee opening. Unless him and Hendry end up hating each other by the end of the year, I doubt it will be much of an issue, And if is, then the Yanks get to pay us for our next manager, so that's fine.

NLCS is cancelled tonight btw, go Bears!

Phils name 3 ex-managers as coaches, don't slip up next year Manuel.

anyway Jimmy Williams as bench coach, Art Howe as 3b coach and Davey Lopes as 1b Coach.

Cha-
Why wouldn't Girardi do well in Oakland?

I mean:
Chad-

wow..that's a lotta high end personalities on 1 team.

none are known as ego guys, though...williams is probally the most intense, but he's still pretty tame. interesting crew.

Girardi just spent a season fighting with the management and you think he'd be a good fit for an organization that likes to tell it's manager what to do?

I think I see Chad's point....

i doubt he'll even be considered.

The first time Joe bunted with a runner on first and no outs in the first inning, Beane would walk down and fire him immediately

Rob's got it. Billy Beane runs that team and I don't think that Girardi is the right guy for that job. Girardi would have been great in Chicago and would also be great in New York.

"I want to see Girardi go to Oakland, he'd do great there."

You're kidding, right?

Anybody else think Baker suddenly seems like a possiblity in Oakland? Now he would have to come in at a relatively low price as I don't think Beane will give him close to what he got with the Cubs. I'm just thinking given his history in the Bay and Macha's not connecting with the players, it may happen.

Baker's career Win%: .527
Piniella's career Win%: .517

Baker's wins over .500: 121
Piniella's wins over .500: 99
-
Hey Chad....where are the stat guys with this obvious Feaux paus by Hendry???????

For Gawwdd's sake, we can't possibly win with THOSE historical statistics.

I think Baker would have the same problems in Oakland that Girardi would... Beane likes a manager who takes orders, not gives them.

One funny thing about having Lou here is that everyone will try to imitate how he talks. They did that here in Seattle and still do whenever they talk of him (mainly on the sportsradio shows).

On another note, Lou will be better at handling the local press than Dusty was. I felt that Dusty was shocked at the Chicago press when he first arrived and never really figured it out. He tried being surly with them the first couple of years and then just made excuses...kinda of like how he managed the team after 2003.

I'm rambling.

Welcome Lou.

oh, Baker and Beane, it's baseball's very own odd couple. If they didn't do a reality show with that dynamic, I have no faith in television.

Ron Washington, Bob Geren, Rene Lachemen, or other no name assistant will be the next A's manager.

Anyone else unsurprised that Piniella's deal has an option year?

Freakin' Hendry.

hahahahhaha

I wonder if Macha had any troubles with getting respect from his Hispanic players. You know, considering his last name...

Block (Adam):
"I would have to think there would have been some very forward and frank discussions in negotiations with Pinella in terms of the prospect of the Yankees job opening up next year."

Yeah, Hendry better told him that we are not giving anyone permission to talk to you. Why would Hendry hire a manager and have even a slight possibility that he could bolt next year. I don't think even Hendry is that stupid.

But I am a bit suprprised they gave him 3 years, but I guess that a manager with a name like Pinella's, he wouldn't settle for 2 years plus club options. Oh well, that is fine, as long as Hendry does not get reupped if they don't make the playoffs again.

Overall, I am blah about Pinella. He was won a WS, which is nice, but the whole TB situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yes, they didn't have much talent at all, but still, it was a disaster. But it does not suprise me Hendry went after the biggest name possible (possibly another shield/scapegoat), but I am glad he moved somewhat quickly. Now Hendry has got to improve the team, or it doesn't matter who is the manager.

Now lets focus on ARam and signing a big hitter and pitcher.

Go Cubs!!!

Now that he is the manager and all, maybe we should try to get his name right, myself included.

Piniella

There's a second "i" that's silent.

Piniella will show just how bad Baker was for all those that don't believe a manager makes musch difference.

He won't stand for losing or any excuse not to win. Fundamentals will be seen as never before under Baker.

Hendry will assemble a team based on Piniella's needs and he'll actually the guys given to him and anyone not performing will be replaced by a hungry youngster from AAA Iowa or AA Tennessee.

His approach to the game reminds me of Leo Durocher - this should be fun to watch!

www.theLOCALfolks.com

Piniella will show just how bad Baker was for all those that don't believe a manager makes much difference.

He won't stand for losing or any excuse not to win. Fundamentals will be seen as never before under Baker.

Hendry will assemble a team based on Piniella's needs and he'll actually play the guys given to him and anyone not performing will be replaced by a hungry youngster from AAA Iowa or AA Tennessee.

His approach to the game reminds me of Leo Durocher - this should be fun to watch!

glendon rusch is hungry...never did him much good on the field.

Ruz was happy about Baker at one point, too, so I will refer to this post in 2009 when we're all regretting LouPi's tenure with the Cubs.

But who knows; maybe we'll win it all under LouPi's wing!

Scott De B: Dusty vs. Lou - you compared their WP's.

So - the Great Joe Torre? His highest finish with the Cards (intra-Division), 1990-1995? 3rd Place

With the Yamkees, in a ten-year span, 1996-2006, Yanks finished 1st except for ONE year, when they finished 2nd.

Its the talent, baby. The Talent.

Its why I'm not holding my breath with the track record for 3 years of one James Hendry - the man who brought us this "Stiffs List" (which I've posted before, yet I'm sharing again):

Mabry, "Holly", Neifi, Dubois, Jody Garut, Macias, Bynum, J. Williams, S. Williams, Hawkins, Dempster, Nevin, Rusch(!), Hairston, Burnitz...

AND, THEN he was counting on Miller, Woody and Prior!

RESTAURANT NAMES:

As discussed by one of our illustrious bretheren, it might be a good time to think off names for Lou's upcoming River North dining/drinking establishment.

Who will kick it off?

Er.."Think OF names..."

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Baker had one of his usual moments on BBTN:

From BaseballProspectus.com
"His power numbers are down some."
--Dusty Baker, in his Baseball Tonight debut, on Cardinals 3B Scott Rolen. Rolen's slugging percentage this season is three points above his career average.

Rolen hit the least amount of HR's this year than any other year since his first full year (throwing out last years injury season). Yes he hit more 2B's this year, but maybe that is because his power is down. And agin throwing out his injured year last year, his slugging percentage is the lowest its been in 3 years.

Nice catch, Manny. It goes to show that sometimes its the numbers behind the numbers that give a more thorough picture.

dusty probally didnt have a huge in-depth study of rolen...he probally just glanced at his stats and saw 12 less homers than his last full year and made his statement.

his .518 slugging % is a bit off his pace from 02+ (discouting the 05 injury season), too.

still, he definately was effective vs. the cubs and that couldnt have swayed his analysis.

ESPN says Lou wants A-Rod. Would you give up A-Ram and Prior for A-Rod?

For those that watched the Bears game. An amazing comeback. Wow.

If hiring LouPi nets us A-Rod, I will forever love Jim Hendry.

MIKEC:
Yeah. Amazing game. Was Rex "Glassman" Grossman drunk in the first half, though?

I would take A-rod at SS instead of having Ramirez at 3rd.

Though for some reason I don't see Ramirez signing and then being traded. If the Yanks were at all considering Ramirez for 3rd base they would just use his current contract as leverage and tell his agent don't sign with the Cubs. That way the Yanks get more in return for A-rod and still get Ramirez.

The only way the Yanks and the Cubs would do a Ramirez for A-rod deal is the Yanks don't want Ramirez to hit free agency and risk him going to Boston or the Angels.

It is a hell of a pipe dream, but I will smoke on it till it is dead and buried.

So who would we get to play 3rd base if this little dream ever went down? I would target Huff.

ESPN says Lou wants A-Rod. Would you give up A-Ram and Prior for A-Rod?

Another injury prone pitcher is the last thing the Yanks want, and they already have A-Ram's production in A-Rod. If the Cubs want A-Rod, a report from the Trib via Rotoworld says it will take Felix Pie, Scott Eyre, and Rich Hill.

For those that watched the Bears game. An amazing comeback. Wow.

I'm not a Bears or Cardinals fan, but it's really hard to call that a "win". Rex Grossman was truly, hideously atrocious.

Dusty v. Piniella... Durocher v. Piniella... blahhh. Piniella a different guy with his own strengths and quirks. Is it spring training yet?

me: Would you give up A-Ram and Prior for A-Rod?

No, Aram's on the "indispensible" list. Prior, any one of the Cub's miserable prospects, sure whatever. No way they'd want Prior, though. The Yanks are a ball club, far different from the "Chicago Cubs Rehab Clinic for Chronically Injured Pitchers with Potential".

MikeC: For those that watched the Bears game. An amazing comeback. Wow.

HOLY SHIT, they won?

I turned it off, down 10-23 to watch "The Family Guy". Dammit!

A win is a win. You got to play defense and special teams also. Granted the offense stunk, but the Bears flat out killed them in the other 2 areas.

I know its rare to see a team never give up, play its ass off, and overcome multiple damaging plays, but hey you saw it tonight with the Bears. They played with the heart of champion. They didn't roll over and play dead like our Cubbies when the chips were down.

Granted the offense stunk, but the Bears flat out killed them in the other 2 areas.

I'll give you the punt return, but "flat out killed them" is an overstatement. There was a blown block that resulted in Leinart being hit from the blindside and fumbling for a touchdown, and Edge was stood up and stripped, which was returned for a touchdown.

The Cards' offense was able to pick apart the Bears' secondary most of the game, esp. when they weren't backed up against their own endzone. Again, I only care about the NFL as it affects my fantasy teams, but it's tough to look at the Bears and still say they're the best team in the NFL.

Yeah because when Indy barely beats the Titans its a gutsy win. But when the Bears do the same thing to a much more talented Cardinals team it some how means less.

Whatever, enjoy the win. They are still the best team in football.

Truly the AZ Cardinals are the Cubs of the NFL. Their second half was an hour and a half of Hawkins' throw bouncing off Offerman's helmet.

adam dunn?

Yeah because when Indy barely beats the Titans its a gutsy win.

I didn't say Indy's the best team -- they're top 5 in my mind, but no closer than that.

But when the Bears do the same thing to a much more talented Cardinals team it some how means less.

It's arguable that the Cards are vastly more talented than the Titans.

Whatever, enjoy the win. They are still the best team in football.

The Bears did win, so enjoy that. I'm not sure they're the best team in football though. I'd have to include the Chargers in that discussion.

Btw, in Cubs-related news, I read the article on ESPN.com about Piniella wanting A-Rod. Interesting stuff. I think it would probably cost more than the Cubs could afford but if Hendry can find a way, bring him on.

Oh yeah the Chargers, you kind of forget about them. But they haven't really played anyone either.

1) i hope you all were watching that bears game. one of the most unbelievable events i've ever watched. between that and ND's comeback over MSU a few weeks ago, my teams have had probably the two most exciting games of the year at their levels.

2) trading for ARod by giving up Ramirez AND a pitcher makes very little sense to anyone for me....the cubs should be putting ARod at SS if they're getting him and keeping Ramirez. Otherwise your upgrade is not that huge on offense and you've given up a pitcher. it also makes no sense for the yanks as they would rather just trade ARod and then sign Ramirez.

i know some people think he couldn't play SS as well anymore, i don't think he'll have many more errors than Ronnie, and would give you a potential lineup of this

(and no, i don't even know why i'm doing this bc it's such a dream, but if i had 40 mill to play with i would give ARam and ARod 30 combined and then use the other 10 on a pitcher, use cheapies to fill out the pen and bench)

Theriot/Durham/Pierre?
Rodriguez
Lee
Ramirez
Barrett
Jones
Murton
CF?/2B?

i'm sure most managers would put murton at 2, but to me it's a waste to have one of those big 3 at 5 or lower in the order. it's not like ARod is slow.

that lineup is as good as they get in the NL. if it takes hill, pie and eyre, you've gotta do it. pie is farfarfar from proven, hill is probably good but even that's not for certain (he's also 26 already) and eyre is good but certainly replaceable.

that lineup is badass. wow.

and kick pierre off the considerations. if the cubs spend 3/22 on him and then say that ARod was too expensive i might jump off a cliff.

not worth the money for JP.

Giving up Hill at this point would be insanity. He appears to have "figured it out," and was utterly dominant in his last couple months at the big league level. He's also a healthy left-handed arm that can go out there every 5 days--something the Cubs cannot afford to give up on at this point.

I am a huge fan of building from within, but a guy like A-Rod is worth trading for. Pie? Hell, take him. I'm not so sure about giving up Eyre, though. I would hope that a Pie/Howry/Ohman deal might get it done, as that would allow the Yanks to bolster their bullpen and then focus on acquiring a new 3B and starting pitching. I expect that the Yankees are going to want a couple of "proven veterans" for their rotation--I can't remember the last young starting pitcher (other than Wang, which was not something they planned on) to start for the Yanks. The money they would save on A-Rod's contract could go directly towards Zito or Matsuzaka, as those guys are probably the top two targets for the Yanks at this time.

Otherwise, maybe trading Ramirez and Howry would be enough to get Rodriguez. Maybe then the Cubs could work out a deal to get Lowell from Boston, although I doubt they're in a hurry to get rid of doubles-mashing defensive stud like him with such a thin FA market at that position...

of course pin wants arod...who doesnt...besides the NY sports media.

how would this happen, though?

who would want to trade for a guy who can file for FA in 3 weeks? that alone makes his value next to nothing unless he's tossed in as fluff coattailing the "real" trade.

the cost would probally be huge for a guy who wont outperform aram anywhere but in the contact hitting dept.

everything else he's equal to or better than arod at.

its not like there's a 3rd base market out there.

and if there was a push for arod i'd be concerned negociations with aram have broken down to pretty bad levels.

Crunch,

Here is a plausible way to get Arod a 3-way trade with FLA:

Cubs get:
A-rod

NYY gets:
D-train
Prior

FLA gets:
Pie
Marshall
Guzman
Moore

Moore and Pie fill organizational holes for FLA, and one of Guzman and Marshall should be a solid MLB starters. Also NYY gets the ace they need and random luck would suggest one of Pavano, Prior, or Wright would have a healthy and solid year.

Sign Aram and trade for Arod. Give them ANYTHING THEY WANT. (not aram as you really cant sign and trade in this league.)

i can see the cubs wanting arod...and 29 other clubs...including the one he's playing for.

i just don't see the yanks even entertaining getting rid of him in a market where there's no comparable replacement in trade or FA.

yanks dont need to free up money and they dont need to make way for a youngster.

the same reasons fans of other teams want him are the same reasons everyone but the ny media can see...that a .430 ob% with RISP and .500 with bases loaded (25rbi) isnt exactly a lack of "hitting in the clutch" or other such crap arod's been saddled with.

a couple weeks of K-heavy/error-heavy play and suddenly arod's a puppy killer...another bad playoff and suddenly he's a kitten drowner as well as a puppy killer.

still, i think anything's possible with a team like the yank...and yeah, there's trade scenerios (especially 3+ way ones) that could make it all make sense.

Fwiw (not much), Chris De Luca thinks the Cubs will go after Soriano. De Luca is often full of crap, however.

With Piniella on board, Hendry will quickly try to furnish his superstar manager with a star-studded team. Sources said the Cubs have identified potential free agent Alfonso Soriano -- whom they view as a center fielder and leadoff hitter -- as their primary target in rebuilding a team for Piniella.

Here's the link:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/...

#64: Lou's restaurant names:

Fancy restaurant: OneSixtyLou
Schaumburg location of fancy restaurant: LouTwo
Supper club/jazz venue: Kind of Lou
Kids' theme restaurant: Skip to My Lou
River North singles bar: WaterLou
Wrigleyville casual dining: Electric BurgerLou
Upscale Mexican restaurant: TopoLoubampo

^^ He wins!

If De Luca and Paul Sullivan are both right, Piniella's coaching staff currently stands at:

Bench: McLaren
1B: Quade
3B: Speier
Pitching: Rothschild

PELL MEL: Really nice job.

How about his Downtown "Diner/Frence Restaurant": Loop de Lou?

DeLuca gets it wrong sometimes - as they all do. But he called the hiring as definitive the earliest of all of 'em. I gotta give him his props there.

I sometimes think I'm the president of the "Trade for ARod" club, but even I don't think it is a good idea to trade ARam for ARod. The only guys I would consider off limits in an ARod trade would be Zambrano, DLee and ARam. Other than that, everyone is up for discussion.

I know that Rich Hill is supposed to be the Cubs new pitching savior, but from my perspective, he is still just a guy with potential who had a good half-a-year. Don't get me wrong. I'm excited to have him in the rotation next year to see what he can do, but if the choice is ARod or Rich Hill, I'm going with ARod every single time.

"In Piniella we win NL Penanta"
"In Lou we won't be Blue"

"We're Lou's-ers!"

Trading ARam for ARod would be pointless, unless our goal in the offseason is simply to add salary just to say that we did. We need to ADD ARod to the existing mix, not just exchange productive players with another team.

One of the things that bothered me about the ESPN.com article was that it said Piniella wanted ARod to play 3rd for the Cubs. I don't know if the source for the article said specifically that Piniella wanted ARod ot play 3rd or if the author just assumed that because that is the position ARod currently plays.

If ARod does come over to the Cubs, he needs to move back to SS. Assuming ARam re-signs, the Cubs already have a 3rd baseman. And ARod would certainly be a huge offensive upgrade at SS.

It's always safe to assume ESPN has their facts wrong when it comes to teams outside of the northeast.

Hiring of Sweet Lou not a very sweet idea

http://www.sj-r.com/sections/sports/stories/9...

Sweet Lou:
I know that Rich Hill is supposed to be the Cubs new pitching savior, but from my perspective, he is still just a guy with potential who had a good half-a-year.

It's not that he's a "savior", it's just that without him, we only have 1 starter good enough for the rotation next year. Pitching wins in the long run, so the question shouldn't be how do we get Arod, it should be: how do we fill out the rotation?

Say the Cubs go after Schmidt, there's 3. Maybe a Lilly/Suppan/Eaton-type, there's 4. Then what? Prior? Give me an f'ing break, no way he makes more than 4 starts next year. Marshall? Blah. Gooz? Blah. Miller?

And don't fool yourself into thinking that last rotation spot is inconsequential, it's vastly important the Cubs find someone reliable and effective for that 5th rotation spot if they plan on winning a lot of games. He'll be responsible for the outcome of roughly 30 games.

"It's not that he's a "savior", it's just that without him, we only have 1 starter good enough for the rotation next year. Pitching wins in the long run, so the question shouldn't be how do we get Arod, it should be: how do we fill out the rotation?"

Ryno -- I understand what you are saying, but I don't completely agree. Pitching doesn't win ni the long run, well constructed teams do. Granted, a well constructed team needs a strong, dependable rotation, but pitching alone isn't going to get the job done.

More to the point, we're talking about whether the Cubs would be better off in 2007 with ARod or Rich Hill. Hill had a nice half-a-year, but he is certainly not a lock to be just as effective in 2007. I like what I've seen of him, but I also understand that ARod would be much more valuable playing every day for the Cubs than Rich Hill would be pitching every fifth day. And that assumes that Hill pitches well enough to stay in the rotation all year.

I hope Hill turns into a really good starting pitcher, but considering his track record so far, there are no guarantees. With ARod you know you are getting an (at least) average defensive player with an above average bat.

Quote of the Day, via Baseball Musings:

The A's need a new manager, and former Giants skipper Dusty Baker says he'd "be interested."

"In the Bay Area, oh, yeah. It would be nice for me and my family." Baker said by telephone Monday.

Ken Macha apparently didn't communicate enough in the A's clubhouse. Communication is Baker's strong suit. He is the consummate player's manager, a natural leader.

"My best is yet to come," Baker said. "Whoever gets me is gonna get a manager who's on a mission to win. I'm a better manager because of what happened the last couple of years."

Hehe...I could just imagine Dusty managing for a Billy Beane run team.

"With ARod you know you are getting an (at least) average defensive player with an above average bat."

ARod is one of the greatest players of the past 25 years. Whether or not he is a 3B or SS, his production as an infielder is other-worldly (especially as a SS). His average line over the last 5 years:

.299 AVG
.575 SLG
119.6 Runs
44.6 HR
123.4 RBI

Are you kidding?

I did not want to calculate his OBP, but his worst OBP season over the past 5 years was .375

I don't care if it takes Rich Hill, Pie, our entire bullpen, and Jim Hendry's first born child, you make the trade to get ARod.

If Hendry seriously wants to go after A-Rod, the key would be finding a third team to involve in the trade. The Marlins are the obvious candidate, with us sending our top crop of prospects for Willis, then Willis and probably Izturis to the Yankees for A-Rod.

Even then, I'm not sure we could land A-Rod without losing at least one of our MLB ready young players -- probably Murton or Hill.

If the Cubs deal Hill, the marketing slogan for the 2007 starting rotation should read, "Zambrano and guano".

"...He appears to have "figured it out," and was utterly dominant in his last couple months at the big league level."

Well, I agree he SEEMED to have figured it out. "Utterly dominant"? In a couple of games, maybe.

SWEET LOU: No, I have to agree with RYNO, and so does the majority of managers in the MLB, I would think. Pitching is at least 75% of the game. Hendry thinks its 90%. Arizona beat the Yankees with 2.5 pitchers (and two who will be first ballot HF'ers), one everyday player who had a career year, one player who was to retire shortly thereafter,and won the WS.

Indeed, pitching is everything. The Cubs should build their pitching first and foremost. They have a 1 & a 5, right now. That is all they can count on. It is pathetic. Their closer sucks-ass. These are more pressing needs. Trading for A-Rod, would mean the team would have to give up what we (and the Yankees) need: Pitching. Unless, they agree to take Prior as part of some deal. BUT - Cashman is not stupid. Hasty, maybe, but not stupid.

"If the Cubs deal Hill, the marketing slogan for the 2007 starting rotation should read, "Zambrano and guano"."

Seamhead -- Use some imagination. The starting rotation has to be addressed anyway. If the Cubs trade Hill, I don't think that will be the end of it. They'll just need to replace him. But you don't let the potential of losing Rich Hill stop you from trading for ARod.

E-Man -- Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying pitching isn't important. Obviously it is. But I don't think we should make Rich Hill untouchable because "he's all we've got." Hill can be replaced by a number of bottom of the rotation free agents. Keep in mind, we're talking about a guy with a career 6-9 record and a 5.12 ERA.

Losing a #5 starter should not stop the Cubs from getting a perennial all-star and future hall of famer, not to mention a guy who can put butts in the seats and sell tons of merchandise. Rich Hill might some day be a dependable starter, but he'll never have the impact to the bottom line of wins and dollars that Arod will have.

"Cubs get:
A-rod

NYY gets:
D-train
Prior

FLA gets:
Pie
Marshall
Guzman
Moore"

-chifan3887

There is no way that Willis can be had for Felix Pie, Sean Marshall, Angel Guzman, and Scott Moore. Forget ARod and keep Willis. If that was "plausible" why don't we just trade Mike Fontenot, Eric Patterson, and Carlos Marmol for Justin Verlander. And then we can trade Brian Dopirak, Sean Gallagher, and Ryan Harvey for Matt Cain.

Plausible 2007 Rotation:
Zambrano
Willis
Verlander
Cain
Hill

That was easy.

Seriously, if we really think ARod is actually available, it is going to take A LOT MORE than B-level prospects to trade for a two-time MVP, future HOF, and arguably the greatest SS ever.

Let's not have a whole offseason of Prior trade talk like we did with Wood last year. Prior, like Wood last year, isn't going anywhere because he's worthless until he proves he can pitch again. And that won't happen until sometime next spring at the earliest.

The Cubs can compete in their terrible division and league next season with the players they have. What they need are three starting pitchers. Trade Hill and you make that four starting pitchers.

Sweet Lou-

That's a grerat reason to trade for A-Rod, because the park has been empty, and no merchandise is getting sold....right?

I'd loooove to see A-Rod as a Cub, but I've seen too many futures mortgaged over the last 30 years. We'll trade for him, and then have a rotation of:
Z
Prior
Miller
Suppan?
Mateo/Marshall/Guzman?

We'll finish in the top 3 in runs, and dead last in pitching again.

"Seamhead -- Use some imagination. The starting rotation has to be addressed anyway. If the Cubs trade Hill, I don't think that will be the end of it. They'll just need to replace him. But you don't let the potential of losing Rich Hill stop you from trading for ARod."

We'll just need to replace Hill...sure, and then we'll "just" need a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th starter too. Oh, and a closer. It's just that simple?

Let's get A-Ram signed, and go get a CF. Then sign Vincente Padilla and/or Jeff Suppan/
Neither of those 2 are stars, but will give you innings, and Padilla can be electric at times.

You guys see Eyre's comments?

I know he's a lot different than 'Bake,'" reliever Scott Eyre said. "From what people have said, he's a lot more of an 'in-your-face' guy. He doesn't mess around much. I mean, he'll have fun, but once we're on the field he's very serious.

"I doubt he'll be laid-back. He wants to win, and he'll spark a fire under some people, and maybe some guys here needed that. Or, who knows? Maybe we could've just had a really terrible year."

Asked if an "in-your-face" manager was a necessity, Eyre replied: "I think some guys [need one]. I know at times I got lax and I didn't do what I was supposed to do. But I'm also 34 years old and should be able to police myself. But if he's able to do that, it'll be good for some guys."

Gee, I wonder who he is pointing out?

But I like how other guys need a fire lit under them but he is fine. Even though he gets lazy as well.

I am glad he policed himself this season though. 2.38 ERA in the 1st half, 5.49 ERA in the 2nd half.

I heard an interview with "Sweet Lou" and he cited Detroit as an example of a team that engineered "a quick turn-around" -- and then he went on to say that the Cubs can do the same thing...Does he realize that it takes a wise GM (unlike Jim Hendry) to make the right moves AND a Manager to get the most out of the talent...? Check this article out...

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?...

GM made the right moves

Owner opened wallet for Dombrowski

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...

#110 of 110: By vorare (October 17, 2006 10:34 AM)
If Hendry seriously wants to go after A-Rod, the key would be finding a third team to involve in the trade.
----

VORARE: I agree with you.

IF Hendry seriously pursues A-Rod, and IF the Yankees are serious about wanting to move him, and IF A-Rod agrees to waive his "no trade" (three HUGE "ifs"), at least one other MLB team will need to be part of the deal.

In any proposed deal involving A-Rod, the Yankees will probably want to get back a 3B to replace A-Rod and a proven rotation starter, neither of which the Cubs can offer or afford to trade(Zambrano isn't going anywhere, and a "sign & trade" deal involving Aramis Ramirez ain't gonna happen, because either A-Ram elects to be a FA and leaves, or the Cubs re-sign him for "Derrek Lee money" plus a "no-trade").

An obvious potential 3rd team could be the Texas Rangers. Why Texas? Because the Rangers would seem to be in a rebuilding mode now, and one albatross they have around their neck is the portion of A-Rod's salary they are obligated to pay for the next several years ($7M average per year over the four-year period 2007-10).

If the Cubs would be willing to assume half of what the Rangers owe A-Rod (which would be $3.5M per season through 2010), and if the Cubs would be willing to trade (let's say) Felix Pie, Sean Marshall, Angel Guzman, and Scott Moore, I think it is plausible that Texas would be willing to send Hank Blalock (owed $10.7M 2007-08 then a FA) and Kevin Millwood (gets $27M 2007-09 with a $12M vesting option for 2010, although he has a limited "NO TRADE" so that the 2010 vesting option might need to be guaranteed) to the Cubs for Pie, Marshall, Guzman, and Moore, with Blalock and Millwood then going to the Yankees for A-Rod.

The salaries exchanged by the Yankees ($66M over the years 2007-10 they would have had to pay A-Rod if he remained with the Yanks, balanced by the $10.7M owed Blalock 2007-08 and the $39M owed Millwood 2007-10 they would be assuming) would save the Yankees $16M over that four-year period, so they also could help pay the $28M the Rangers owe A-Rod in salary over the years 2007-10.

But even if the Rangers had to pay A-Rod the entire $28M they owe him 2007-10, they still would save about $50M in payroll through 2010 ($12.5M average per season) just by trading Millwood and Blalock for prospects, while the Cubs would be taking on about $16.5M (average) for the years 2007-10, escalating $15M-$16M-$17M-$18M over this four-year period (which they can well afford, especially if the 2007 payroll budget is increased to $115M).

SWEET LOU: "...not to mention a guy who can put butts in the seats and sell tons of merchandise.

I agree w/DUSTY above, that this is of no significance in itself to us. I'm sure John McD obviously sees this angle.

I agree w/your assessmt. that Rich Hill is not "untouchable" but, as a lefty, with NO PREVIOUS ARM TROUBLE, and some nifty stuff in the making, IF he's traded, it better be a damn good deal.

Quick question -

I remember reading somewhere that all merchandise is owned by MLB (not the individual team) and thus a shared revenue stream amongst all teams, so it doesn't matter if you sell a million ARod jerseys because every team in the league is getting that revenue.

Anyone know if that's true?

If Rich Hill was in fact a Hendry untouchable last Winter, he is REALLY untouchable now.

Doug,

I'm not sure if merchandise is included under the general revenue sharing scheme, but I thought MLB clubs were required to put something like 35% of their local profits into a common fund that is then evenly distributed. So if the Cubs sell an extra 50,000 jerseys in Chicago thanks to signing A-Rod, they'd get the majority of those profits.

It may be that profits on merchandise sold nationally (especially through MLB.com) is shared equally, though -- I have no idea.

Oh boy..this A-rod thing is going to be ridiculous. I agree he is probably teh best player of generation X, however what good does he do for us if we have no pitching. I've been a big fan of Henry but I'm worried he's going to morgage every last little thing we have in the minors to get A-rod and then what...when he gets the boot..we'll be back in the abyss again for the next five years. I'm tired of that. We were close in 03, we have hill, Pie, (nolasco, and others which we gave up for Pierre - some good that was...because we weren't willing to pay the crazy price for Furcal which in the end would have saved our system).

How much is Arod going to help us if we have no pitching...nobody has every won with a patchwork pitching staff from FA..you need to develop players and also add key components. To get Arod you will have to give Aram and pitching. As great as Arod is Aram is pretty good too..and losing pitching will kill us.

Enough of this Prior trade talk...he isn't worth a damn to anybody...so we might well keep him and hope it turns out for the best. We will get scraps for him and he could turn out to be back to 03 from. So slate him as a 5 starter...and whatever else he does is bonus...so get a number 2 in the FA market and keep Hill. All of a sudden you have two studs in Z (Matsuzaka or Schmitt (short term contract) and Hill (a very good #3) Stick Guzman the once #1 prospect...and let him pitch..and learn as a 4/5 pitcher. REalistially three good starters and a potential of Prior is very good to win this pathetic NL Central. If we do add another SP it will only solidify things.

The way to go as henry said today...Soriano is a great idea....you can stick him in the OF and when Pie is ready you have the option to move Soriano to LF or 2B depending on how Murton/Therriot/Cedeno do. Your flexibility has increased tremndously....not to mention Soriano is worth 15 mil and Pirre will probably ask for 10..so the extra 5 mill a year gives us 40 extra HR and 15 less SB's. A pretty great deal....With Aram, Soriano, DLee, Zambrano, Matsuzaka/Schmitt we are a pretty damn good team...look at this terrible NLCS...

Then all it takes is chemistry....and hope that Sweet Lou can make some sweet music in October....and save our minor league system.

Please don't sacrifice the future...how every little there is left for these two remaining years on Henry's contract.

I do live in NYC now..and the media here want's Arod out of town so fast...it is crazy....as much as the poweres at be say he's not for trade...if we can get him for cheap....in a Hendry sort of creative deal (the problem is the yanks can pay...we've been stealing players from teams who cant)...and stick him at SS...i'd be all over it...but realistically who could we give up...and not regret it later. Hill/Pie/Moore/Marshall/Guzman/Marmol...it may take all of them (the yanks don't want minor leaguers they want players that can make them win now.

Just thought this one up...a little conversation starter -- and stick with me as it is a little long

Yankees Receive:
Joe Crede
Rich Hill
Felix Pie

White Sox Receive:
Scott Moore
Juan Mateo
Sean Gallagher/Donald Veal
Scott Eyre
Cesar Izturis

Cubs Receive:
ARod
Freddy Garcia/Javier Vazquez

I really just put this together off the top of my head, but the IF the Yanks trade ARod, they will need a 3B and want young pitching in return. They get that in Crede (gold glover, blue collar) and Hill, and I am sure Cashman would love to see Tabata (their top positional prospect) and Pie in the same Yankee OF for years.

The White Sox need to unload one of their starters to make room for McCarthy, and that make Garcia or Vazquez expendable. They need MAJOR help in the bullpen as they lost too many games in the 7th and 8th innings. Scott Eyre is the answer there. Josh Fields (their top prospect) is ready to play 3B now, and they wont have to pay big $$ for Crede, who is a Boras client...Kenny Williams DOES NOT get along with Boras at all. Give them one of our top pitching prospects (Veal or Gallagher), Mateo, and Moore to play 3B at AAA Charlotte for them, and just MAYBE. Izturis may fit as Uribe IS IN SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE...can you say Urbina version 2.0!! They have a hole at SS now and I bet Ozzie would love a slick-fielding Venezualan SS. But it also saves them $$ by not paying Garcia/Vazquez and the $10 million a year that Boras will get Crede. They will take this money and go after a big bat in LF (Soriano anyone). White Sox lineup would look something like this:

Soriano LF
Iguchi 2B
Dye RF
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Anderson CF
Fields 3B
Izturis SS

But, MORE IMPORTANTLY, this scenario nets us ARod and Freddy Garcia. We lose a lot in the minors (Veal/Gallagher, Pie, Moore, and Mateo), but it is worth it, especially when we have talent in lo-A (Pawelek and Colvin), and the #3 pick this year as a BIG MARKET TEAM that can afford to deplete the farm.

This would give us:

Pierre/FA CF
Theriot 2B (Cedeno/Izturis would bat 8th pushing Murton to the 2 slot)
Lee 1B
ARod SS
ARam 3B
Barrett C
Jones RF
Murton LF

A-Rod's best position these days might be 2B.

A Rod is not coming to Chicago. Just because Pinella coached him in Seattle and says he would like to have him--don't get your undies in a bunch. Until someone gives evidence that New York (the organization, not the fans) wants to get rid of him, it is not happening.

Remember all of the hoopla this time last year about what would we give up for Tejada? At least we were in serious talks with them, but Prior for Tejada and Bedard, not even if Angelos was on drugs would they have made that deal.

The Yanks are not stupid. If they do decide to move ARod, don't fool yourself, it will cost A LOT. Way more than any of the posts here are suggesting.

A-Rod's best position these days might be 2B.

What are you talking about? Just because he had a bad week at 3b?

A-Rod was (and probably still is) a better SS than Derek Jeter. A-Rod had some struggles this year, but overall he was very good in the field and even better at the plate.

OK, I got what I had wished for. The ideal scenario would be that as at many big companies the incompitent get promoted. That would mean promoting Hendry to President "for a job well done" and then getting a real GM. That's not going to happen.

What is all of this A-Rod talk about? Kinda sounds like all of the hot air about Torre. I don't want to hear about anything else that we might need until the pitching problem is solved.

#96 and #98: Thanks. E-Man, "Loop de Lou" is awesome. And don't forget:

Gentleman's club: Looky Lou

Spongebob: Please don't sacrifice the future...

I'm tired of living for tomorrow that never seems to come. Potential is just that, potential. We need to sell short and build a team out of (mostly) proven talent, not sit back and wait for the kids. If we keep waiting, most of us will be yelling for those kids to get off our lawns while we lament our lack of a world series.

We should sell from our rich farm system while it's still rich with potential.

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