Winter Meetings ‘06: Day Four Rumor Roundup

The updates will be scarce today as most the GM"s have left Florida and our own GM is recovering from getting fifty years of donuts and trans fats blown out of his arteries. 2:03 PM Another Score update from George Offman and he cites "one report" that the Cubs are talking to Jeff Suppan and mentions that Rocco Baldelli is on the Cubs wish list along with the White Sox. Both sounded like much ado about nothing at this point, so don't go nuts over it. 1:36 PM I'm listening to the Score at the moment and they did mention the Cubs are talking to Jeff Suppan, but no real details. 1:33 PM - Word is that Levine on ESPN 1000 is reporting the Cubs are "close" to signing Jason Marquis, take it for what it's worth. Thursday Morning/Afternoon Roundup - Gil Meche's deal with the Royals is in the 5/55-60 range. Bullet, Dodged. - Daryle Ward looks to have signed with the Cubs on a one year, $1.05 million deal. - I can't find a link, but I believe ESPN 1000 is reporting that the Cubs have turned their attention towards Jason Marquis after losing out on Meche. - A very random rumor of Mark Hendrickson being dealt to the Cubs.
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Comments

Daryle Ward looks to have signed with the Cubs on a one year, $1.05 million deal.

What are the thoughts on this? Is this really Jone's replacement? Is this guy any good for the bench even? This has me concerned.

nah, Ward's going to be our prime left-handed pinch-hitter...

3 yr splits:
vs righties: .277/.340/.492
vs. lefties: .216/.262/.301
as PH: .292/.375/.494

I believe he can stand at 1b/lf or RF and pray the ball is hit right at him as well.

He's John Mabry but he can, you know, actually hit.

#1 of 2: By Ryno (December 7, 2006 02:02 PM)
Daryle Ward looks to have signed with the Cubs on a one year, $1.05 million deal.

What are the thoughts on this? Is this really Jone's replacement? Is this guy any good for the bench even? This has me concerned.

===================================

RYNO: Daryle Ward was the best LHPH in MLB last year. I don't have much faith in him in the field however (MAYBE 1B every now and then), although at least it should mean Murton's job is safe (for now).

I like it, Randall Simon Part II, you need a guy like Ward to come off the bench. Dude can mash RHP. Ward >>> Mabry, for the same money. A modest move, but over the course of a season could help the team win a few extra games, I like it.

anyone listenting to the Score? if so, let me know if anything is mentioned about Baldelli or Suppan. Thanks.

last year Ward only had 17 AB's against Lefty pitching...I'm sure those were just to give him a rare start or a double switch that went into extra innings.

So aside that he's good vs Righty pitching, it's better than Mabry as it's known not to put him in against Lefty pitching. (although I'm sure that kind of info wouldn't keep Ol' Toothpick from using him vs Left Handers)

but I agree, he's taking the roster spot that Mabry had last year

...and there is still room for Cliff Floyd (to take Bynum's spot...fortunately Floyd will never be used at second base although he's probably as surehanded as fast freddie was, oops bounced off Bynum's mitt again).

and if you're listening to ESPN 1000, anymore mentions of Marquis?

SUPPAN or MARQUIS?

Any new rumors guys?

link us up!

Ward might be more useful than Lilly. ... In seriousness, a nice solid signing.

My friend and I drove to Pittsburgh for the doubleheader debacle in 2004 (the Mackowiac games) and spent the whole game heckling Ward a la Bart and Lisa, "Dar-yle! Dar-yle!" Didn't work. =)

"a la Bart and Lisa, "Dar-yle! Dar-yle!" Didn't work. =)"

Please tell me that this is not the only reason you know about the Daryl, Daryl chant. Please!??!?!?!

You do know where that really comes from, right?

cubster:
fortunately Floyd will never be used at second base although he's probably as surehanded as fast freddie was, oops bounced off Bynum's mitt again).

You reminded me of some of the highlights of '06.

* Bynum dropping a routine fly-ball in LF.
* Bynum bobbling a game winning double-play ball, the Cub's ended up losing the game.
* Aramis getting thumped in the head by a routine infield fly-ball.
* Bynum's 3-error inning.

Levine was just on a Chicago sportscenter update about 15-20 minutes ago saying the Cubs were close to terms with Marquis...no details, just that they were close. No more than that though, Rob.

thnx, I'll give it a mention

RobG - excellent coverage of the winter meetings.rumors etc. Aside from AZPhil you are the man on TCR. Congratulations!

That aside, I am curious to know why the Cubs do not have any interest in Jon Lieber - if Meche is truly a Royal, thank goodness - and given the dearth of pitching why not give some AAA bodies or JJ to the Phils for a groundball pitcher with control.

I like the Ward signing, it will keep Neifi from replacing Lee in the lineup... oh yeah, Neifi is gone and Baker is gone. But he can still help keep Lee fresh and pinch hit for pitchers not named Zambrano and urgh, Marquis.

Why would the Cubs be in on Baldelli?

Well, at the very least, Marquis is an innings eater by 2007 standards.

But - 1st in HR's (35!) 1st in Losses! High ERA!

This will give us our third #3/4 pitcher...

Scary, man. SCARY!

I don't even know if they are, just read something on another board that I don't particularly trust, wanted to know if anyone else heard it.

Listening to Score myself now and they mentioned Suppan, but nothing on Baldelli.

Are we allowed to use the word, "Dude" anymore here?

Absolutely, kudos are in order for you, Rob. Thanks for saving all of us the hassle of clicking through a bunch of other sites and giving the people what they deserve.

And what's up with Cliff Floyd? Yesterday a deal was all but done. Anything new? JW

A deal on Floyd was never close, all they've done so far is request medical reports. Bruce Miles just speculated that it's only a matter of time before Floyd signs here, but he was talking about weeks, not days.

Why would the Cubs be in on Baldelli?

Umm...because the Cubs do not currently have a center fielder.

About Jason Marquis:

I have been opposed to the Cubs signing Jason Marquis, but I am going to try and be Jack Brickhouse about this.

Let's see...

He's only 28. Still young and probably quite capable of improvement.

He had decent years in 2004 & 2005, so 2006 was probably just an aberration.

Larry Rothschild will be available in Spring Training to help him fix his mechanics.

At least his '06 road numbers weren't as bad as his home numbers.

And he had an ERA under 5.00 in May.

And, uh, I hear he is very nice to his mother.

OK!

Let's sign the freaker!

I don't think that Marquis would signed with the expectation of him filling a spot in the rotation. I would hope that he would be signed as a project.

Rob...have you heard anything about Baldelli and the Cubs? Your mention of it was the first I had heard of it.

'Umm...because the Cubs do not currently have a center fielder.'

Someone better tell Jim Hendry that Felix Pie has gone missing.

i just dont like the idea of signing a "placeholder" tallent in this market. its gonna be for 3+ years and for 1-3m too much in this market based on speculation of how things are going now.

it might be needed for 07, or prefered, but taking it into 08/09+ isnt something i look forward to.

that's the problem when there's only 2 sure things backing up 10 zillion dollars worth of bats, though...Z/lilly.

Someone better tell Jim Hendry that Felix Pie has gone missing.

Most people don't think that Pie is ready. It appears that the Cubs are not going to go into spring training with Pie as the only CF option.

Dave,

Read comment #17. It was probably just some jerkoff making up rumors on another board. I know other people listen to the Score so I asked if anyone else heard it. Pretend like it didn't happen...

if anyone cares at this point, the St. Louis writer I linked to yesterday says the Cards offered 3/39 on Schmidt and were willing to go to 3/42 but no higher.

Read comment #17.

Got it...I guess I missed the first part of your comment on that one.

right, thanks for the clear up on Floyd

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6247184

If you, like me, get annoyed when people bitch about Hendry sitting on his ass and doing nothing, stow that link away for the right time. :)

"Cards offered 3/39 on Schmidt and were willing to go to 3/42 but no higher."

What an old-Hendry move that was. Give him a competitive offer that you know he'll never take, yet still be able to look everyone in the eye and say, "Hey, we gave it our best effort".

one more thought on the Darryle Ward signing...if they do sign Cliff Floyd in addition to Ward, I think it will nearly end the speculation about Kenny Lofton coming here. Too many bench lefty's given that Angel Pagan is the 4th OF and a switch hitter plus speculation about Theriot (a righty) also seeing some CF time (5th CF until the Pie era starts)...and then the side OF depth in DeRosa, Floyd, Pagan and Ward.

I wouldn't have minded Lofton for the bench but I just don't see it happening (especially at $6M x 1) with both Ward and Floyd (unless the medical records on Floyd leave Hendry with more chest pain)

If/When JJones is traded would be the only chance I'd see them go after Lofton (he's be the midwife on duty) to give birth to the Pie man era. Pie also is a lefty.

listened to another Score update and they did mention Baldelli, no details though. I'll throw it out there.

hey...ben maller says Adam Dunn may be available... :)

Dunn in Left, Soriano in Center, Murton in Right?

What an old-Hendry move that was. Give him a competitive offer that you know he'll never take, yet still be able to look everyone in the eye and say, "Hey, we gave it our best effort".

Re-read what I wrote Chad, that's what the CARDINALS offered. We've never heard what the Cubs were offering, at least nothing reliable.

Surprised it's not in the thread (did I overlook it?) but Meche is going to KC:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/basebal...

5 yrs/$55 million

I think Chad was just comparing this Cardinal effort to what Hendry had done in previous years without an unlimited budget.

As for Pie's readiness, Bruce Miles has the scoop from Lou at this link:
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?i...
Basically says they're not sure he's ready, but he could prove them wrong in the spring.

you might be right about that Ranch, if so, my apologies Chad.

yeah Meche signing was mentioned in the post, you have to hit the "continue reading" link though...

Ah! It was in the thread below, posted a few hours ago. Disregard #37.

My point being that Baldelli is:

1. A center fielder signed to a long deal
2. A right handed batter
3. Not a leadoff hitter due to his Dunstonesque patience
4. Would only be available for Hill, and probably not even up at that

It makes no sense whatsoever to pursue a trade for him.

everybody seems to love Baldelli and for the life of me I can't figure out one good reason why.

1. A center fielder signed to a long deal

This is what makes him attractive. If Pie works out, you can trade Baldelli or Murton.

2. A right handed batter

Sure...but there are not a lot of great lefty CFs available.

3. Not a leadoff hitter due to his Dunstonesque patience

The Cubs already have a leadoff hitter that they are paying 17 million a year to. Not all center fielders need to be leadoff hitters.

4. Would only be available for Hill, and probably not even up at that

You never know...i would have never thought that Garcia would be available for two decent, but not great, prospects.

any thoughts on who gets bumped from the 40 man to make room for Ward (given that Lilly takes Bynum's spot)

I vote for Jose Reyes or Adam Harbin (or both if they sign Floyd).

Is Glendon Rusch still on the 60 day DL? If he is they probably don't need a roster spot for Ward.

everybody seems to love Baldelli and for the life of me I can't figure out one good reason why.

He is young and affordable. he is more of a potential guy than anything else.

He has plus speed, plus power, plus defense, hits for decent average.

His main weakness is his OBP.

He is a guy who should have many 20 HR, 20 SB seasons while hitting around .300 and playing quality defense. To get that at 6 million a year for the next five years is a steal, even with his .325 OBP.

I gave Ted Lilly my heart...

problem with Baldelli is your going to have to pay even more "in potential" than Baldelli brings.

He's been injured, his numbers aren't good at all in my opinion besides the power surge last year in half a season and he hasn't stayed healthy at all.

as for the 40-man, I have no idea to be honest. Dopirak, Reyes and Soto are dead weight in my opinion.

Bullpen trade certainly is possible as well...

It seems that we got "Minor League right-hander Kevin Hart" from Orioles for Boom Boom

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...

-Cubby78

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y3psgf

Elia claims Cubs wouldn't hire him because of his rant. He was supposed to come to Cubs in a uniformed capacity (likely hitting coach) and then was going to get a scouting job with help from Piniella. Hendry called him and said nothing was open and he now works with the Drays as a scout.

Not too big on Baldelli myself. Rays are probably asking the world for him and he's not worth it.

Ward is a nice pickup for our bench. Isn't he the only player to hit a homer in PNC that hit the river on the fly?

He's been injured

He only had one injury, and has bounced back nicely.

These were his numbers last year, in 92 games:
.302/.339/.533, 16 HR, 57 RBI, 59 R, 10 SB

Over 162 you have this:
.302/.339/.533, 28 HR, 100 RBI, 104 R, 18 SB

Those are very good numbers, especially for 6 million a year. And even more so considering he just turned 25 in September.

Thank you Ranch. Jeez Rob, who peed in your Post Toasties today?

steve:
Not too big on Baldelli myself. Rays are probably asking the world for him and he's not worth it.

Wow, this is a tough crowd.

I apologized Chad, I misread it obviously.

Was it just the one knee injury that made him miss part of 2004, all of 2005 and half of 2006? hell of an injury if that is the case...

I've heard rumor of the Cubs going after Ryan Church. He would make more sense as a stop-gap CFer who also hits lefty. He might not cost too much in trade.

"Thank you Ranch. Jeez Rob, who peed in your Post Toasties today?"

I guess updating a blog 24/7, three days in a row, for the benefit of us, must be pretty tiring. Give the man a break.

No, I was wrong...He tore his ACL in 2004, as he was rehabbing his knee he tore a ligament in his elbow and had Tommy John surgery.

you can read more here.

despite the fireworks this offseason, this team still hasn't addressed it's woeful OBP problems very well. Baldelli is another high K/low walk guy and he's just not worth the pricetag that is being rumored. If the power surge he discovered last season continues, well I'll dislike him a little more, but I don't think he's worth more than Marmol and Rapada to be honest. (or pick any 2 pitchers simiar to those guys from our system)

#44 of 55: By cubster (December 7, 2006 03:32 PM)
any thoughts on who gets bumped from the 40 man to make room for Ward (given that Lilly takes Bynum's spot)

I vote for Jose Reyes or Adam Harbin (or both if they sign Floyd).

Is Glendon Rusch still on the 60 day DL? If he is they probably don't need a roster spot for Ward.

==========================================

CUBSTER: All players must be off the 60-day DL by November 20th (at the latest), and it is not available again until March 1st.

As for who goes when Ward gets added to the 40, I'd say either Buck Coats or Jose Reyes.

"Was it just the one knee injury that made him miss part of 2004, all of 2005 and half of 2006? hell of an injury if that is the case..."

He had Tommy John surgery in 2004, followed by its mandatory rehab, in which he tore his hammy.

Sounds like the Cub's should try to get him for their starting rotation.

Guys any more news on Suppan,Baldelli?

PHIL:

Given the current structure of our roster, was there a chance in hell Josh Hamilton could have stuck on the 25 man for the whole 2007 season?

Hmmm...I didn't know about the torn hammy.

But I should that he also had 24 doubles this last year, converting to 40+ over 162 games.

"Hmmm...I didn't know about the torn hammy."

Yeah, he had a career's worth of injuries over a three year period. Torn ACL, Tommy John Surgery and torn hammy.

No more info on Suppan, Baldelli or Marquis.

in yesterday's roundup, I pointed to a link that Cubs had a 3/30 offer on the table for Suppan.

from BP.com

Forty-seven million for Jason Schmidt, or $40 million for Ted Lilly? It's in comparison to contracts like the other big one handed out yesterday that you start to see the value in the newest Dodger. Lilly has never thrown 200 innings in a season, and has one ERA below 4.00--that in a shortened campaign--in his life. He's not improving significantly as he crosses 30 years old, and it's not like he has hidden value when you go into his peripherals. The going rate for a mid-rotation free-agent starter without much upside is eight figures a year, and the Cubs paid it. I just don't see where this pushes a team that much closer to a title.

also..

but now that the Dodgers have brought in Luis Gonzalez to join Juan Pierre and Andre Ethier in their outfield, this meansÖ well, possibly the worst collection of outfield throwing arms since any unit that had Rudy Law in center.

#64 of 65: By Carlos (December 7, 2006 03:58 PM)
PHIL:

Given the current structure of our roster, was there a chance in hell Josh Hamilton could have stuck on the 25 man for the whole 2007 season?

================================

CARLOS: No way. Just having anybody with Rule 5 restrictions on a team for an entire season puts a crimp into roster flexibility, but carrying a guy on the bench who has spent most of the past four seasons on the Resricted List and who has only played 23 games above Class "A" (and that was in 2001) would really be a problem.

I know Hamilton is only 25 and no doubt he has outstanding natural talent, but he cannot spend an entire season on an MLB regular-season roster at this point in his career (such as it is). Perhaps the Reds want to take a look at Hamilton in Spring Training, and if they like what they see, maybe they will try and work out a trade with TB so they can send Hamilton to AA for a year. That would be the only way it would make sense.

BP.com:
"I just don't see where this (signing Lilly) pushes a team that much closer to a title."

I can't agree more...

CUBSNLINUX: Please do a search here before posting old news on this blog. You can simply hold the Ctrl & F key and type a keyword.

"Old" here is from 10 minutes to an hour after the first source lets it fly, in any medium, print or broadcast.

It got pretty crazy here the last couple days, and the extra and double postings does put a drag on the server.

Thanks!

As I said, not a good fit for the Cubs, of neither was Izturis and Hendry is still tickled about getting him. But, I think the Rays are going to ask for Hill and Marshall for him, and as Rob pointed out, he's an out machine. Check the 2005 Cubs for what Homeruns and batting average do for you. A .370 OBP guy for CF is what the lineup needs, not another .320 OBP 20 HR hitter.

Forty-seven million for Jason Schmidt, or $40 million for Ted Lilly?

Come one...big difference. Once guy will make ten million a year. One guy will make 16 million a year. You cannot compare total values of contracts when they are of different lengths.

"Forty-seven million for Jason Schmidt, or $40 million for Ted Lilly? It's in comparison to contracts like the other big one handed out yesterday that you start to see the value in the newest Dodger."

wow.

now that's slanting the view.

why not ask "10m a year for lilly or 15m for schmidt?"

geez. yeah, some at BP still cant get over the soriano signing, but that's a bit sophomoric to print a comparison like that just acting like how long you get to keep the tallent means nothing.

that 40m furcal deal looks good when you see that the yanks gave 190m...wow...40 is less than 190!

the kicker is those are educated people who know better than that.

I have no idea what the Nats are asking for Church, I assume young pitching, but I think he's a better option at a more reasonable price.

it also assumes Schmidt was just going to go to the highest bidder. We still don't know what or if the Cubs offered anything...

MANNY: While I do agree about the Lilly quote to a point, the writer also did not mention that the team did not even have a Lilly-type arm at all, and that compared to last year, with his addition, the staff's net wins should be improved - we had TWO bona fide starters and Schmidt did not want to come here. So, yes we didn't get a top-shelf starter, but we got what was available.

If you read the Toronto bloggers that I mentioned earlier, the guy gets thumbs up from the Jays loyalists.

If we do not get another arm that is better than he by opening day, I'l be more worried.

But I will say he will keep us in enough games to win 14-16 games in his first year in the NL, as a lefty. Provided the wind isn't blowing out.

he's an out machine.

I can handle an out machine that brings an 850+ OPS with plus defense and plus speed.

And what realistic CF options are out there that have a .370 OBP? You brought up Pie, yet Pie's OBP in the minors has rarely been anywhere close to .370. The last two years he has been at .341 and .349.

Haven't really thought about Baldelli much since if we planned on dealing with Tampa I wanted Crawford. But I certainly will not turn my nose up at him.

He can do more in 90 games than Lofton can do in 150. Plus his contract has built in safe guards if he does get injured. It is a contract he negotiated himself that is very shrewed in its construction.

It is a 6 year contract...

he receives salaries of 2M in 2006, 750K in 2007 and 2.25M in 2008- + with 600PA in 2006, his 2007 salary can increase to 2.5M and 2008 salary can increase to 4.5M- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2009 worth 6M or a 4M buyout- + if 2009 option is exercised, then a dual 2010 Team Option worth 8M and 2011 Team Option worth 9M are added- + the 2010 and 2011 options must be exercised together- + if the dual option is declined, then he receives a 2M buyout- + if does not reach 600PA in 2006, then he can earn 1.75M in performance bonuses in 2007 (mostly based on PA) and 2.25M in performance bonuses in 2008 (mostly based on PA)- + 2008 salary can become guaranteed at 5M (w/out performance bonuses) if he reaches 600PA in 2007- + as part of deal, if he remains with Rays thru 2011, he will have donated 400K to Rays' charitable foundation

That is a sweet contract with very little risk. He gets some money in case he never plays again, while at the same time not making himself a financial burden on the team.

I will take Rocco Baldelli any day of the week as my CFer.

E-Man-
AS I posted earlier, I think we did have Lilly on the team last year, and his name was Greg Maddux. About the same money and about the same results we can expect. So again, I don't see an upgrade just a wash with what Maddux has done the past 3 years of his career.

"And what realistic CF options are out there that have a .370 OBP?"

What was Lofton's OBP last year? Does he cost us Rich Hill to sign, or can we get him for Marmol and Marshall?

Hendry needs to worry about trading for a pitcher rather than trading for OF'er.

Lofton's OBP was .360.

Lofton's OBP in his last four seasons: .333, .346, .392, .360.

He also brings a lot less power and defense. You also can't count on him for 160 games.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Baldelli is the "answer" but I do like him and love the fact that he is only 26 and has a very affordable salary.

But I wouldn't give up Pie or Hill for him. But anyone else would probably be tradeable in my book for him.

Manny: It is a good point to be sure. But Mad-Dog was only with us the first half, and he had no help from the guys around us.

So - let's see what fills in around him.

It was really, as someone put yesterday, kind of a "no-choice" signing recognizing the holes in the starting rotation.

"But I wouldn't give up Pie or Hill for him"

But you'll block Pie, who is cheaper, has better plate discipline and similar tool set in other regards, probably a little better defensively. Again, there is no point in trading for him.

And projecting half a season of stats and calling them a full season, is nice but it's not really a true representation of what he is going to do. If you just look at Pie's 2nd half stats, his AAA numbers suggest that he could be ready to play in '07.

I hope there is no validity to the Jason Marquis offer rumor. He has been with the two best pitching coaches in baseball with poor to mixed results. What chance would he have with our guy?

"a la Bart and Lisa, "Dar-yle! Dar-yle!" Didn't work. =)"

Please tell me that this is not the only reason you know about the Daryl, Daryl chant. Please!??!?!?!

You do know where that really comes from, right?
_____________________________________________________

No one answered this one? Dar-yl as in Daryl Strawberry @ the SHEA...witnessed it many a time myself.

If we get Baldelli, it means that Pie is going no longer in the Cubs plans. Are we willing to give up Pie's potential for the production of Baldelli? I'm not.

But you'll block Pie, who is cheaper, has better plate discipline and similar tool set in other regards, probably a little better defensively.

Did you read anything that I wrote?

I already said you either move Baldelli to left or trade him once Pie is ready. I would not let Baldelli block Pie, and neither would the Cubs.

And projecting half a season of stats and calling them a full season, is nice but it's not really a true representation of what he is going to do.

for example...

Baldelli in 2003
1st half .304/.329/.446, (89 Games)
2nd half .270/.322/.378, (67 Games)

in that particular episode mr. burns hires d.strawberry to play on the company softball team.

episode features many pro players.

strawberry plays a brownnoser to the manager...kinda funny.

griffey jr. gets an "enlarged head" from drinking too much nerve tonic.

etc. etc.

There is no reason that Baldelli and Pie could not play in the same outfield.

I would love to see a Pie (RF), Baldelli (CF), and Soriano (LF) outfield.

Look...if Hendry can get Baldelli without trading Pie or Hill, I would be excited about that. The Cubs are clearly committed to Pie, and a Baldelli signing would not mean that they are giving up on Pie. It would just mean that they see a talented young player that could be under Cubs control for several years at a very affordable cost.

I have no idea what it would take to get him, and I am sure he would be demand multiple high quality prospects. But it could be worth it.

well if we're banking on potential, I'd just roll with Murton and not give up the pitching prospects.

Murton will probably put up similar, if not better, numbers than Baldelli by the time Pie is ready.

thanks Rob....agreed...

looks like the well has dried up and everyone has gone home. i'm officially clocking out.

Look for TCR Friday Notes tomorrow...

Dave,

Sorry I am having trouble keeping up with your logic. We are going to trade players we don't have, for 6 months of a player who is best suited to bat 7th in the lineup. Or maybe we'll put him in left, diminishing his value to the team and pushing a better hitter out of the lineup as we do it. I think I got it now. Great idea!

Nice job on the updates Rob G, and others who helped.

But that doesn't solve our CF problem that we have this coming season, especially if Jones is traded.

I go back to the original problem - no center fielder. And options are limited.

I would love to see a Pie (RF), Baldelli (CF), and Soriano (LF) outfield.

That's a lot of K's in the outfield. The wind would perpetually be blowing out.

Your not possibly comparing Pie's minor league numbers to Baldelli's pro numbers are you? That is just full of pit falls.

The fact is we need a CFer if Jones is on the outs with this organization. If we do get Baldelli he doesn't block a damn thing. Pie has proved nothing, and who knows if he ever will. If you start depending on him to be good while finding subpar pieces to fill in in the meantime you are running a risky gauntlet. A gauntlet this organization has a very poor track record on.

The best situation to be in is that you have Baldelli and Pie comes up in September in the the next couple years and dominates. Then you are in the very enviable situation of dealing from a position of strength. Murton, Baldelli, and Soriano would all bring something very worthwhile in return. Or Pie could bring something very good in return. Because why would you want to break up Murton, Baldelli, Soriano if they are all producing very well? Best to dump Pie for an upgrade somewhere else and not take the risk that he might be a bust. It is the old trading an unknown for a known trick.

At the very worst, if an injury happens anywhere in the OF, Pie would/should get first crack and the starting gig. It is that very situation that made Thome expendable to Ryan Howard. If Thome was never injured, you probably would have seen Howard on another team. Yeah Howard was good, but there were no guarantees he could hit as good as Thome. It is a hell of a leap of faith to take a known and go with an unknown unless you have no choice and have financial limitations.

Umm...as far as projecting a half season's worth of stats out to a whole year, I have just one thing to say to you:

Corey Patterson, 2003.

I rest my case.

Just for shits and giggles because I know it's not necessarily fair to compare Korey and Baldelli but:

Korey 2003:

83 Games: .298/.329/.511, 13 HR, 55 RBI, 49 R, 16 SB, 15 BB, 77 SO

Baldelli

92 Games: .302/.339/.533, 16 HR, 57 RBI, 59 R, 10 SB, 14 BB, 70 SO

Eerily similar, no?

well personally I don't care about blocking Pie or not, he can play any of the OF positions as is.

I personally care about giving up anything worthwhile for Baldelli who has demonstrated severe problems in his game so far, most notably...

- Injury history
- poor plate discpline
- not a lot of power

He doesn't hit for a high average, he doesn't get on base on a good clip and he's had half a season worth a damn of power. If the power continues to develop, you have something albeit nothing fantastic.

Oh, I should clarify, that is Baldelli in 2006.

"Your not possibly comparing Pie's minor league numbers to Baldelli's pro numbers are you? That is just full of pit falls." Is it as full of pitfalls as looking at half a season of stats which are out of line with his career and deciding he is now an .872 OPS (slugging heavy) hitter?

"It is that very situation that made Thome expendable to Ryan Howard."

It's not the same situation. Because the Phillies didn' have Howard when they signed Thome (yes they had him, but he was in A ball, and had hit 18 HR's that season as I recall). Also the Indians didn't get Brett Myers, either.

Hellfrozeover, I know that's not a fair comparison for various reasons, but that is spooky.

Baldelli has hit every season he has been in the majors. Patterson didn't.

That is the major difference.

Look at Baldelli's numbers in 2004 and 2003 if you want an idea of what he can do over a full-season.

He is going to hit about .280 with a .326 OBP with maybe 14 HR's, 75 RBI, and score 85 runs.

And there is no reason to believe he can't improve upon those numbers since he is only age 25. His power stroke looks to be coming along as he not only hit 16 HR's in 364 AB's but stroked 24 doubles as well. In his rookie and sophomore seasons where he got over 500 AB's in each he had 32 and 27 doubles.

Unlike Patterson Baldelli hits for average against both RHP and LHP. Though his hitting against LHP is much better. Plus he can hit with RISP, posting a .296/.356. That is in stark contrast to Corey Patterson's .242/.315 with RISP.

It is really laughable to compare Patterson to Baldelli. Patterson isn't 1/4 the player Baldelli.

Why isn't that a fair comparision?

toolsy guys with little plate discpline both around the same age at those times (Baldelli 25 last year, Korey was 24 in 2003).

you have low standards Mike C because his 2003 and 2004 numbers look bad to me...

Why isn't that a fair comparision?

because Korey only has one half of a season where he put up comparable numbers to Baldelli. Baldelli has put up solid/good numbers over 2.5 seasons, and has improved each season.

"It is really laughable to compare Patterson to Baldelli. Patterson isn't 1/4 the player Baldelli."

"Look at Baldelli's numbers in 2004 and 2003 if you want an idea of what he can do over a full-season."

Ok, let's look at what Baldelli did in 2004.

.280 .326 .436 .762

Now lets look at what Corey did in 2004.

.266 .320 .452 .772

Yeah MikeC, you're right on the money. Baldelli is 4 times as good as Patterson.

Well show me all the seasons Patterson had respectable numbers?

The fact is the only season anyone would consider worthwhile for Patterson was the 2003 season and that was the half-season.

Baldelli on the other hand has in each year he has played put up decent numbers. He can already hit for average in the majors so he wont struggle with that as Patterson did. Usually a guy that can hit for average can bring his K's down and his walks up as he gets older. Guys that are undisciplined hack machines like Patterson continue to hit for poor average and never take walks.

The fact is Patterson never but up 1 single half way decent full season in his major league career to date. Baldelli already has 2, that is why the comparison is silly.

I ask, again, what were good about Baldelli's 2003 and 2004?

they're very similar to Korey's 2004 and 2006

Damn MikeC, you just owned yourself. Well done!

you have low standards Mike C because his 2003 and 2004 numbers look bad to me...

really?

2003- .289/.326/.416 - 11 HR, 32 2b, 89 R, 78 RBI, 27 SB, all at the age of 22
2004- .280/.326/.436 - 16 HR, 27 2b, 79 R, 74 RBI, 17 SB, at the age of 23 and in only 136 games.

By no means are those hall of fame numbers, or even all-star numbers, but at his age they are quite decent. Add to that an even better 2006, and it looks like he has a very promising future.

what numbers are people looking at with Baldelli that I'm missing?

well yeah, at his age they were quite decent, so were Korey's in 2003 and 2004...

and I'm not even saying they're the same player, Korey is a headcase, from what I know Baldelli is not. And improvement is certainly possible and even expected. It was also expected in Korey and it's expected in Murton and Pie.

But people act like this guy is an All-Star just waiting to get out of Tampa, when it's far more likely he's another run of the mill league average player. And he's certainly not worth what the Drays seem to be asking right now.

I guess you don't give a shit about young players who are capable of hitting for average consistently.

It is probably why Murton isn't liked by most people on this board. He doesn't put up the sexy power numbers.

As I said: "Just for shits and giggles because I know it's not necessarily fair to compare Korey and Baldelli"

I just thought it was a damn scary resemblance between seasons.

That said, I do think there is something to the fact that in the given half-seasons of comparisons, they were both young, toolsy players as Rob said.

Also Dave, that is patently untrue. Actually, during the 2004 season, Corey put up numbers arguably superior (going by runs created) or at least on par with Baldelli in either 2003 or 2004. The difference is that Korey had a terrible year in 2005 and then proceeded to rebound to a normal expected production in 2006 and also that he is older than Baldelli in those seasons.

Corey 2004 and 2006:

157 Games: .266/.320/.452, 24 HR, 72 RBI, 33 2B, 6 3B, 45 BB, 168 SO, and 32 SB

135 Games: .276/.314/.443, 16 HR, 53 RBI, 19 2B, 5 3B, 21 BB, 94 SO and 45 SB

Baldelli 2003/2004:

156 Games: .289/.326/.416, 11 HR, 78 RBI, 32 2B, 8 3B, 30 BB, 128 SO and 27 SB

136 Games: .280/.326/.436, 16 HR, 74 RBI, 27, 3 3B, 30 BB, 88 SO

So what does this mean? Nothing really because the argument for getting Baldelli is that 2006 was his breakout year.

But for those with short memories, a lot of people were saying the same thing about Korey after 2003 and even after 2004. "He's finding his power stroke".

I'm not advocating one way or the other on Baldelli because while I'm not a fan of his skill set, he will at least put the ball in play a hell of a lot more than Korey and as a result would likely consistently put up a decent batting average even if his peripheral numbers aren't any better than what Todd Walker would provide. But frankly I think the Cubs would be better off to tell Jaque Jones to give all those assholes making threats to him a big "fu-- you!" and come back and play CF anyway.

Uh, Murton is pretty well liked around here from what I've read. And he looks a whole helluva lot more promising than Baldelli -- more power, more patience, and healthy.

Baldelli is clearly superior to Korey in one area. He has a great name.

Anyway, not sure why people don't like Murton either. He's a young Brian Giles. A healthy one, too, for now at least.

"He is going to hit about .280 with a .326 OBP with maybe 14 HR's, 75 RBI, and score 85 runs.

So basically, we're trading for another Mark DeRosa?

No, I don't. Batting average is fluky and very difficult to maintain. A high batting average (which Baldelli does not have) is even harder when you strike out a lot (like Baldelli does).

fun with numbers...

Patterson in the minors:
282/338/499

Baldelli in the minors
282/329/434

And yeah, i can't stand Murton, what a bum.

The Pie business is getting silly. People like to pretend he's a good prospect simply because he's the Cub's best prospect (that's not saying a whole lot). I'm not too enamored with him. He appears to be hacky and has a very long swing. His redeeming quality is his defense & speed. Whoopedy doo.

My guess is in ST '07 we'll see him taking some very strange hacks at big league sliders.

I love Murton, and I think he'll turn out to be better than Korey and Rocco combined, mostly because he actually has plate discipline. He probably doesn't come across as sexy at first because they both are excellent with the glove and have great wheels, but I think that in 2 years neither of those guys will hold a candle to Orange Man.

hellfrozeover:
He probably doesn't come across as sexy at first

My wife disagrees.

People like to pretend he's a good prospect simply because he's the Cub's best prospect

Yea...except for the fact that most baseball people think quite highly of Pie.

His biggest downfall is his plate discipline, but his defense is gold glove caliber, with great range and a great arm. He has plus power and is slowly learning how to steal bases. He has hit for average, and just needs to increase his OBP.

And he is still really young. There is little not to like.

Rob check out Baldelli's 3 year splits on ESPN.com.

Baldelli's situational hitting is better than Patterson's across the board. Baldelli hits RHP and LHP, Patterson not so much especially lefties.

Look at the monthly splits where Patterson is all over the board with nothing really that good, and Baldelli is much more consistent.

(Bah just noticed it doesn't include Baldelli's 2003 splits on ESPN, I don't feel like going back to adding them up to include them)

More flukiness Mike....

just go to Baseball reference.com, they have splits now Mike C, year by year or career

comparison test:
the cubs are screwed. the blue jays are screwed.
one has hendry. the other has ricciardi.
with what one paid for soriano the other will have to exceed for the even better vernon wells.
with what one paid for a ted freakin' lilly will have to pay double for the vastly better carlos zambrano. the other may have to settle for victor zambrano to fill out the rotation.

re ted lilly: he'll have some good games. but prepare those gloves out on waveland.

More fun with numbers:

Patterson in the minors:
282/338/499
Baldelli in the minors
282/329/434
Pie
.294 .353 .459

Pie has higher BA and ISO OBP than both of them. Baldelli, however was 'rushed'.

Vorare - I don't get that impression at all regarding Murton. I see a lot of posts about how he can platoon with this guy or that guy. The one most often throw around he is can platoon with Jones.

Murton is already a better over-all hitter than Jones, why he would platoon with a lesser player and stop his development I have no clue.

Anyone been reading the rumors about Cliff Floyd over the last week or so? You see a good number of people in the blogsphere who say he would make a fine platoon partner with Murton. That crap make my brain bleed.

I agree with you, any mention of putting Murton in a platoon makes me want to break things.

I wouldn't worry much about Cliff Floyd, when's he's healthy he's usually good (exclusing last season). When he's not healthy than Murton will be playing anyway.

Those are interesting numbers Real Neal. Patterson hasn't consistently come anywhere near to his minor league numbers.

Baldelli has pretty much made the transition from the minors to the majors with no major hiccups as his numbers haven't declined at all. That is a very important and a good sign. It is the same thing Murton is doing.

I think it depends on what you mean by 'platoon'. If the idea is, an I think that this will be the case, to limit the starters to 140-145 starts, then you have Floyd start 17 in left, maybe a few in right and at first if he promises not to break his wrist horrifically, he is going to make his 17 starts against right handers, and provide insurance in case Murton goes down.

I guess I wouldn't have a problem with that Neal.

When I see platoon I am always thinking of Floyd/Jones getting all the RHP and Murton getting all the lefties. Which means Murton riding the bench for weeks on end.

You don't ever do that to a young player with his kind of batting ability. It is a sure fire way to destroy him.

well I'm guessing Murton will be the insurance if Floyd goes down assuming he signs here.

3 yr splits on Floyd:
261/347/466

vs righty: 274/351/500
vs lefty: 245/343/423

I certainly feel it's excessive and unnecessary to bring Floyd in to share time with Murton but it's not sharing time with Angel Pagan or some other sort of crap. Floyd can still hit the righties and he gets on-base. It also makes your bench that much better.

And Floyd gets injured so often that Murton will still end up with the bulk of the Ab's I'm guessing, even on the short side of a platoon.

rob G,
do you really not like murton?.. i see a lot of potential in him

ESPN has Floyd's 3 year splits against lefties at .218 BA/.285 OBP.

Besides Floyd has no business ever being a starter again. Murton is where we should be focusing on, not a washed up veteran on his last legs.

doesnt the d.ward signing kinda kill the floyd thing?

i get the impression that hendry and pinhead are kinda happy with murton.

i guess it ultimately comes down to who's playing CF and if they add or subtract power jones provides.

I was kidding, murton is one of my favorite young players on the team and I wish the Cubs would leave him alone in LF.

It doesn't mean I can't recognize that Floyd hits righties fine and at the very least is more consistent with his power.

I don't think so crunch, Ward I think is a strict bench guy. Floyd would come here to play more regularly, but who knows.

It really depends on how Piniella plans to use these guys.

yeah, i see ward as the bench guy.

i dont buy into this whole "murton gonna get platooned" thing.

he may get occasionally platooned, but that's what a guy like ward is for.

if youre gonna sign a guy for a straight platoon, that's pretty much saying "murton, youre gonna get 200-300ab at most...and 150-200 will be the lefties."

i just dont think they wanna use murton like that and i dont think floyd wants to sit around hoping for 300-ish ab's himself.

Oh I agree with that Rob regarding Floyd. I am just scarred by years of the Cubs going with the broken down aging veteran without giving a younger player a shot.

We haven't had anyone with Murton's skills recently come up through our minors. But in the back of my mind I always fear something or someone is going to fuck it all up.

It would be very Cub like for them to sign Floyd and then instill him as our LFer. If Dusty was still around, it would almost be a certainty.

But like Crunch said, Piniella and Hendry seem to be high on him and expect him to be even better as the years go on. So that makes me feel comfy about his future with the franchise. Ward also makes me feel better. But every time I see Floyd's name mentioned that is what I fear, so I don't want him. It is my paranoia, I can't help it, lol.

of course, who knows about Floyd is looking for these days, he's sure to get offers to be the LH side of a DH platoon somewhere (pair him with Sosa and some team would have a nice pair).

My guess is that Piniella wouldn't make it all that strict. Murton plays against all lefties, but he'd spell Floyd/Soriano 2-3 times a week if we faced a string of righties in a row. I did read they were talking about letting Murton play some right (which he did do in the minors). Just a guess on my part though...

Kevin Hart played for the Frederick Keys, in Hi A ball.
He went 6-11 4.61 ERA 7K/9 .258BA (Orioles system)

not all that great numbers.

before anyone asks about d.ward's arm...the word "weak" sums it up...not exactly a great glove, either...but hey, neither is murton and floyd is just a piss poor defender.

crap vs. crap vs. crap...

i'll take the 1.4m murton/ward package of defensive liability, though.

ya know, early in the year murton looked VERY comfortable in LF but as the year dragged on he became a little more clumbsy out there. weird stuff. still, while his arm might not let him escape LF but for a few games, his evolving approach to hitting as the pitchers adjust to him shows a lot. kid is not only coachable, but can take what he's told and translate it. seems to not get confused when he has to adapt many times in a season...or complain about it.

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2006/12...

Dodgers kicking the tires on Wells now, rotowold suggested Penny, Kemp and another prospect

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/12/07/Rays/Possib...

all kinds of suitors for Baldelli

Braves for Chuck James
O's for some combo of Cabrera, Loewen and Penn
Dodgers for Billingsley

WSox, Tigers and Marlins as well, no mention of Cubs.

Stats scouting report on Ward:

Ward's lack of agility also hurts him in the field. He has little range at first base and his footwork is subpar, though he shows decent hands. Ward is strictly a corner man in the outfield, where he gets to few balls and has a below-average arm.

probably before 2005..

ward's weight has been his downfall.

we can all hope he shows up in good shape, but houston gave up on it, LA paid the price for their gamble, and now its the cubs turn.

for a guy with his power, its not really a bad gamble cuz he's never been hugely overpaid, but if he's showing up fat you can count on a fatass 1st baseman who will see limited LF time.

Those are some good arms for Baldelli.

all rumors at this point, no way Billingsley goes and I don't see the Braves giving up any arms right now, not to mention they have a CF. (I suppose they could be preparing for next year)

O's are just dumb so I don't put anything past them.

if Floyd does sign with the Cubs isn't someone left out? Jones, Pagan? I can't see the Cubs carrying 3 reserve outfielders (including D.Ward as a OF/1B). I can't see Hendry/Piniella only carrying 1 reserve IFer despite both Cedeno and Theriot being capable 2B/SS. It's possible, but I don't see it, and with that rotation no way is Hendry only carrying 11 pitchers. At least after April.

Bench
Blanco
Theriot
Cedeno
Pagan
D.Ward

My (realistic) wish list for the Cubs the rest of the way...

SP - Suppan or Jennings
CF - Talk Jones into staying, get Ryan Church or Kenny Lofton
BENCH - Sign Nevin or Craig Wilson

25 man roster
C - Barrett
1b - Lee
2b - Derosa
SS - Izturis
3b - Ramirez
LF - Murton
CF - Jones/Church/Lofton
RF - Soriano

BENCH - Nevin/C. Wilson, Blanco, Theriot, Ward, Floyd/Pagan

SP - Z, Hill, Lilly, Suppan/Jennings, Prior/Miller

RP - Cotts, Ohman, Eyre, Howry, Dempster, Wood, Miller/Wuertz

the slashed guys count as one player.

I think with Derosa and Izturis who both can play 2b, 3b and SS along with Theriot who can SS/2B, you'll have enough flexibility for late in games. I feel another middle infielder is completely unnecessary. Put power on the bench.

If some injuries hit, just call up from the minors guys like Scott Moore or whatever.

Does it bother anyone else...

That Murton only makes outfield catches with one hand exclusively? What's up with that?

I see him as pretty mediocre in the outfield. Sometimes decent. Sometimes, bad. Bad angles to the ball. Misjudging distances, etc.

But I think he'll really develop into a professional hitter.

If Cotts isn't going to be used as a starter, then we need to deal Ohman. The dude made arbitration hellish last year for the Cubs, and we don't need three left-handed relievers.

Rob, where does Rusch fit into your 25-man?

r u baiting me for a joke?

let's say that if he's cleared to play, which no one knows when that will be or if it will be, he's goes on a very long rehab assignment and we pray that someone will offer us a good steak and a bottle of wine for him. Otherwise cut his ass....

And yeah, I assume some trades will happen and Wuertz finds his way into the pen with no problem, but for now I'm fine with that. Cotts career numbers show him being just as good versus lefties and righties. I believe his out pitch is a change anyway, so he doesn't really qualify as a LOOGY in my book. Ohman has that nasty slurve which is far more effective versus lefties.

I think Cotts will actually be the swing man and I have no idea what they'll do with Miller if Prior is healthy.

Rusch =DL followed by DFA
Cedeno = AAA or trade bait
Ohman did stretch the arbitration process last yr but settled...but that was mostly an issue which would piss off Andy McFail. So it's not the current issue with Andy the Clown gone. I suspect Ohman is LOOGY trade bait since they don't need 3 lefty's in the pen when Eyre is a workhorse and can get righty's out too and Cotts is probably 2nd in line to get innings.

Some solid starting pitcher must be out there if you dangle JJones/Cedeno/Ohman. Especially to a team that wants a salary dump. That trade might not happen until the spring though unless some groundwork was done for such a deal this week.

Q: where does Rusch fit into your 25-man?
A: 3 in front, 3 in back

Is this a variant of:
How many elephants fit in a volkswagen?

ROB G: FYI - The blog-master of "Kauffman Confidentials" the blog link on TCR home page for the KC Royals, decided yesterday to call it quits and shut it down!

He said basically, he was so disgusted by the team then rather than just spew negative stuff endlessly, he would just shut it down!

Maybe the Meche signing drove him over the edge?

Not baiting you. I haven't kept up much with his rehab. I honestly didn't know his status.

he wrote that before the Meche signing, I mentioned it under the comments yesterday or the day before. Poor fella....

if I recall correctly, the earliest Rusch could be taken off blood thinners was in 6 months which put it around the beginning of spring training and he could very likely have to wait the entire (or most of) the season. He cannot pitch while he's on the medication.

Batting practice pitchers don't need to be on the 25-man roster. He'd make a great left-handed batting practice pitcher.

Wonder if Rusch is a better BP pitcher than Dave Otto?

#167 of 168: By Ryno (December 7, 2006 08:21 PM)

Batting practice pitchers don't need to be on the 25-man roster. He'd make a great left-handed batting practice pitcher.
----

That was something we needed last year... literally.

How ridiculous was that situation? Not even talking about whether it truly would have made a difference or not, but just the simple fact that Dusty said we couldn't even find a Left-handed BP pitcher.

Most good little league All-Star teams can come up with one of those. Only the Cubs.

After signing Ward I'm not sure they can afford to have another PH/non-defensive player like Nevin take up a spot unless there were an injury at 1b again.

doesn't seem like a priority for the Cubs, but I do wonder if they plans to have a right-handed bat available for late in the games with power. Blanco, Theriot, Pagan don't really count in my book.

I particularly like Nevin or Wilson because both can be emergency catchers meaning you can pinch hit for Blanco or Barrett if desired.

Nevin would be alright, but Wilson would be awesome.

Career:
Nevin vs lefties: 292/379/540
Wilson vs lefties: 296/395/543

3 yrs
Nevin vs lefties: 258/359/465
Wilson vs lefties: 272/378/497

Nevin will be 36 next year, Wilson 30

Yeah I'd like Wilson more too, but I'm sure someone will give him the chance as a DH/1b type before the offseason is out. Yanks are still talking to him for their 1b job.

via rotoworld...

it was the Braves who killed the Laroche/Gonzalez deal asking for a 2nd player

I agree with Rob in regards to getting Wilson. Maybe he'd get a DH/1B offer from one of the small-market teams in the AL, but I think he'd ultimately go where the money is. The possible problem would be the Yanks, who can and will outspend the Cubs and who could use his right-handed presence in their lineup. He'd be a great RH PH and occasional spot-starter, though.

No chance on the Cubs getting Baldelli. They have the young pitchers the D-Rays crave, but it'd make little-to-no-sense for the Cubs to trade valuable young arms for an injury-prone outfielder when they are supposedly keeping Murton, have Soriano for the outfield, still have Jones, and supposedly are unwilling to trade Pie. That's one clogged outfield (not the same as clogging the bases, though). Offman is not exactly the most reliable source, either. Now, I could see the Cubs offering some young arms to try to get Crawford, who is healthier and is a left-handed stick, but that would only make sense if they plan on trading Pie in addition to either platooning Jones and Murton or trading Jones or Murton.

The Cubs' outfield picture is looking sketchier and sketchier. It'd make the most sense to move Soriano to CF, keep Jones, and then get a guy like Wilson to platoon in RF against LHP (or put DeRosa there and have Theriot start at 2B). Of course, that pales in comparison to the thought of Marquis being in our rotation. That would piss me off even more than signing Meche.

Note to Hendry: You have to TRADE to get a #2 starter. Not sign a bargain-bin pitcher with a bloated ERA.

Guys, Appears Jason Marquis is set to sign and 3 year 27-30 million contact. the source mlb4u.com

What do you want to bet that Bonds magically hits #'s 755 and 756 in San Fran?

Is it really too much to ask for all the ligaments in his knees to snap during Spring Training.

I'm going to hold out hope the Cubs don't get Marquis. mlb4u.com is a pretty unreliable site...I mean, when one of your most common sources is a certain traderumors site, you'll have a lot of bogus info.

Signing Marquis is dumb enough...signing him for a multi-year deal is asinine...signing him for $27-$30 million is criminally stupid.

C'mon Jim, do the right thing. Get Jennings or Westbrook or Penny...hell, I'd take Hendrickson over Marquis at that price.

#171 of 176: By Rob G. (December 7, 2006 08:38 PM)
doesn't seem like a priority for the Cubs, but I do wonder if they plans to have a right-handed bat available for late in the games with power. Blanco, Theriot, Pagan don't really count in my book.

I particularly like Nevin or Wilson because both can be emergency catchers meaning you can pinch hit for Blanco or Barrett if desired.

=================================

ROB G: Two words - Casey McGehee.

Not the power of Nevin or Wilson, but a consistent line drive stroke. And he can play 1B, 3B, and be the 3rd catcher.

McGehee is currently the leading candidate to win the MVP in the Mexican Pacific League, so expect him to be one of the in-house guys (along with E. Patterson, Pignatiello, Wells, Fox, Fontenot, and Hoffpauir) who gets an NRI to ST, and watch him impress the hell out of Uncle Lou.

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, but it doesn't make sense for the Cubs to NOT make a trade at this point. For starters, they have 3 lefties in the pen...even if Cotts is going to be an all-purpose set-up/swing-man, there's no need to have Ohman, with Rapada apparently ready. Adding him to the 40-man roster seems to indicate that the Cubs know he's a valuable LHRP, and that he is capable of being on an MLB 25-man roster (hence protecting him today). They also still have another RHRP that is expendable...either Dempster, Novoa, or Wuertz (I hope not him, though) would be expendable in trade, assuming that Woody is healthy and that the Cubs feel confident in Howry's ability to close (I tend to think that Dempster will bounce back this year, but that still leaves Novoa and Wuertz). The Cubs also have a few young SP prospects and relief prospects that were called up last year that have to be running out of options. Then there's the fact that Jones apparently asked to be dealt, and the Cubs are looking for a left-handed outfielder--preferably a CF.

Signing another starter--especially a guy like Marquis, would make no sense, unless the Cubs plan on trading for yet another starter and then dealing towards the middle of the year from a position of surplus/strength, or unless the Cubs plan on trading for a starting CF who hits left-handed. Of course, it's possible that the Cubs are inept, but I tend to hope that's not the case.

Macgehee doesn't possess the power that I want from my right-handed bench bat. I basically want Glenallen Hill.

http://www.mlb4u.com/rumor.php?order=date&spe...

that marquis rumor is bogus, anyone can post them there and the source is an old article suggesting Marquis be one of 3 pitchers we sign.

Pettite is about to raise Zito's pricetag to something insane....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers...

talking $17 mil on a one year deal, possibly a 2 yr deal

Astros started at 1/12

Petitte is good, certainly better than Ted Lilly, but $17 million good?

The Cubs aren't in on the Zito sweepstakes, are they? I hadn't heard anything about it if they were until I read Susan Kelley's article on all-baseball.com. The article was posted today at 4:12 pm and says:

"Thus far, the Texas Rangers and Chicago Cubs have both shown some interest, and both are thought to be willing to accede to the six year request."

Is this real news or is it just wrong?

write her a comment and ask where she got it from.

so far all I've heard is that they asked about him to see what it takes. I just can't imagine they'll enter into another 5-6 yr mega-deal with our own Z up for a contract extension.

As far as I know, the serious suitor for Zito (so far) are Giants, Mets, Rangers and Angels.

Q: where does Rusch fit into your 25-man?

A: right in front of me in the drive thru at Wendy's

The Trib reports the O's might be willing to offer utility man David Newhan in return for Jacque Jones. Woo hoo.

Andrew:
The Trib reports the O's might be willing to offer utility man David Newhan in return for Jacque Jones. Woo hoo.

hahahaha... Good one, O's.

"Throw in" Erik Bedard and you got a deal.

so far all I've heard is that they asked about him to see what it takes. I just can't imagine they'll enter into another 5-6 yr mega-deal with our own Z up for a contract extension.

Not to mention we've already got Lilly and Hill already. That would be three very similar lefties in the rotation. I'll pass on that, thanks, unless we then trade Hill for a right-hander.

I have to read that one for myself, do you have a link?

nevermind, I found it.

c'mon...david f***in' newhan? someone writing that one was smoking some tainted crack?

.256 .315 .386

enuf said.

I'd rather have Jose Macia$, with throw ins Nate Spears, Carlos Perez AND David Crouthers... and I never want to see Macias again.

EVER.

jones for newhan would be straight up pathetic. hope that one stays in rumor stage.

O's supposedly offered 3/48 for Schmidt, but not enough to get him to the East Coast

O's wanted Garland as well but Wsox were asking for Daniel Cabrera and Garrett Olson

cubster:
.256 .315 .386

Stats aside... he just plain sucks. I'm sure there are some missing details in that rumor. When you look at the value of a player in a trade, you have to figure:

1. What kind of production will you get with the guy?
Jacque Jones -- 25 HR

2. What are similar players getting?
JD Drew -- 14 Mil/year

3. What is his current salary?
Jacque Jones -- 5 Mil

That is a huge trading chip. The Cub's have the leverage, too, because Jones can only ask to be traded. If Hendry wants to keep him, Jones has to stay. So essentially Hendry could say, the price for Jones is ________, anything less is unacceptable.

Newhan? Come on, get real.

The Orioles are interested in the Cubs' Jacque Jones and could offer utility man David Newhan

that's the actual rumor...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfkz3v

Hendry needs to wait on Jones for a month or so and teams will start realizing what they don't have.

that being said, I really don't think he'll get us that much.

I'm still holding onto Rodrigo Lopez coming our way...

off the top of my head, some teams that may pursue him...

O's, WSox, Angels, maybe Rangers if they never get their CF and think he can play there

I imagine the Cards and Pirates wouldn't mind having him either depending on how the rest of their offseasons shake out. Hendry would probably never deal him to the Cards, but he might consider the Pirates.

I'd deal him to the Cards if it meant we could get Colby Rasmus. Of course, that would never happen.

Marquis = project
Wood = project
Prior = project
Lilly = project
ZAMBRANO = STEADY
SUPPAN = STEADY
Meche = project
Weaver = project
Mulder = project
Hill = project
Marshall = project
Cotts/Ryu/Marmol = projects
____________________________

Cubs sign Marquis.

...and Zambrano still not signed longterm.

Cubs seem to avoid reliability.

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