Cubs Non-Tender Two

The Cubs made some room on the 40-man roster by non-tendering P Adam Harben and C Jose "I never should have been on the 40-man in the first place" Reyes. They're both likely to be resigned on minor league deals. Here's a list of some the notable non-tendered casualties: Marcus Giles (whomever suggested the Astros in the comments is a sick bastard) Jayson Werth Toby Hall Jerome Williams David Newhan Victor Zambrano Joel Pineiro Aaron Guiel Many of these players will end up resigning with their old teams but were non-tendered in order to avoid giving the player leverage in arbitration as their teams feel they deserve a paycut, something that rarely happens in arbitration cases. UPDATE: As expected, the Cubs signed Adam Harben to a minor league deal. No mention of Jose Reyes though. That's two open spots now for Daryle Ward and what looks to be the eventual signing of Jason Marquis. My bad on the Ted Lilly reference earlier, he got his spot when "Boom-Boom" Bynum was dumped.
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Comments

What's wrong with the lesser Zambrano? He seemed to pitch decent the few times I saw him. He dominated the Cubs once... no great feat there, but he looked like at least an average type starter. Is he an injury case?

Victor blew out his arm last year I believe and is on the recovery trail. Otherwise he's a walk happy league average pitcher who's topped 180 innings once.

He seemed to have a real good sinker, but aside from that, he did look about exactly average the handful of times I saw him. Except for the Cubs game and that's probably the reason he shut them out, the Cubs refuse to take a walk.

So the Adam Harben Era is over? Damn. This is the guy Phil Nevin engineered his own trade for. Speaking of whom, we should have kept Nevin for our bench, that was stupid. He'd be a nice RH PH complement to Daryl Ward.

Zambrano non-tendered? Him of the infamous Kazmir-Zambrano trade? this is just the cherry on top of the "worst trade ever title"for Minaya. It must have been hard to swallow for the Mets GM...

Here's the complete non-tender list in case anyone is interested

Angels: Jason Bulger, RHP
A's: Jerome Williams, RHP
Mariners: Joel Pineiro, RHP
Orioles: David Newman, OF
Orioles: Aaron Rakers, RHP
Orioles: Todd Williams, RHP
Rangers: Mike Wood, RHP
Rays: Damon Hollins, OF
Royals: Scott Dohmann, RHP
Royals: Brandon Duckworth, RHP
Tigers: Alexis Gomez, OF
Twins: Luis Rodriguez, INF
Twins: Willie Eyre, RHP
White Sox: Eduardo Sierra, RHP
Yankees: Aaron Guiel, OF
Braves: Marcus Giles, 2B
Braves: Chris Reitsma, RHP
Cardinals: Rick Ankiel, OF
Cardinals: Jorge Sosa, RHP
Cubs: Jose Reyes, C
Cubs: Adam Harben, RHP
Dodgers: Toby Hall, C
Dodgers: Jayson Werth, OF
Mets: Victor Zambrano, RHP
Padres: Jon Knott, OF
Reds: Brandon Claussen, LHP
Reds: Miguel Perez, C
Rockies: Chin-hui Tsao, RHP

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.js...

#5:this is just the cherry on top of the "worst trade ever title"for Minaya. It must have been hard to swallow for the Mets GM...

Minaya didn't make the Kazmir-Zambrano trade. Jim Duquette was the GM of the Mets at the time (July 30, 2004). I found not only a NYT article on the subject (http://tinyurl.com/yf3zro) but also Why Duquette Why (http://whytradekazmir.blogspot.com/), a blog that some Mets fans did between May-June 2006 just to lament the Kazmir trade. I wish they'd kept it up because they were quite amusing in their bitterness.

FYI...Mike & Mike on ESPN Radio just said they will have Jim Hendry on tomorrow morning. I think they said 9:20 AM EST.

Interesting on Joel Piniero - here's a pitcher who had 16 wins 3 years ago, and was near the top in AL era, then, each year subsequently his era grew by a whole point! His Losses-to-wins gaps grew as well. He's still pretty young, too.

Wonder what happened?

Maybe he hung out with Gil Meche alot in Seattle?

If Pineiro hung out with Meche, shouldn't he be in line for around $60 million instead of getting non-tendered? ;)

This is the guy Phil Nevin engineered his own trade for. Speaking of whom, we should have kept Nevin for our bench, that was stupid. He'd be a nice RH PH complement to Daryl Ward.

Nevin is a Free Agent, so there's no reason the Cubs still couldn't go out and get him for the bench. I don't think they will, but there's nothing stopping them from doing so.

I'm a little surprised to see Scott Eyre's brother Willie was on the non tender list. I though he had a pretty good year last year.

Actually, Willie Eyre had a pretty poor year. He had a 5.31 ERA with a 1.64 WHIP and he will be 28 years old. Considering he was 27 in his first year in the bigs, I am sure the Twins weren't expecting much. Sadly if he was left handed like his brother, he might get a 2 year deal with those numbers.

The man key to signing Adam Dunn has quit the Cincinnati Reds. Johnny Almarez, head of player development and international operations, said he was left out of the loop by new GM Wayne Krivsky. He joins special assistant Larry Barton Jr. in the "I quit because Krivsky won't talk to me" Club.

"I'm not included in any of the discussions and, in fact, when I walked into the suite during the winter meetings Wayne and his people would lower their voices to a whisper or take their discussions into the bedroom," Almaraz said.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yhv9wu

Ok, I guess Willie did suck. I didn't look up the numbers. I was just going off memory, and thought I remember him doing better than expected.

Yeah, in this market a LOOGY could probably still get a 2/3m deal, even with those numbers.

I wonder what kind of a contract Bernie Williams would want. I wonder what his status is, is he retiring, or looking to sign back on with the Yankees. He would be a temp CF if he would take a 1-year contract with incentives. Anyone have anything on him, he had a nice year last year, and would probably fit in well with the Cubs, he knows Lou, and Soriano. Is he good defensively?

Is he good defensively?

No!!! He is terrible. Old and slow.

Bernie Williams is a nice player, but I would be pretty surprised if he ends up anywhere else but with the Yankees. He is not really starter material anymore.

I can't imagine Bernie signing with anyone but the Yanks. Regardless, he's not worth pursuing -- Pie can probably match Bernie's offensive abilities at this point and he'd bring a much, much better glove.

BLUE Jays may have have offered 7/126 to Vernon.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y24t7d

One less year than Soriano but a million more a year

Taking a look at who is still free agents, here is a short wish list, that in some cases would be pretty good Jim Hendry moves.

#1-Cliff Floyd, lefthanded bat, and loves the Cubs.
#2-Darin Erstad, CF with good speed, but has been hurt.
#3-Steve Finley, CF, could though be way over the hill.
#4-Aubrey Huff, can play various positions, and a good lefthanded bat.
#5-Trot Nixon, good lefthanded bat.
#6-Jeff Suppan, never have enough pitching.
#7-Steve Trachsel, he had another good year last year, W-L.
#8-Mark Redman, like I said you never have enough starting pitching.
#9-Joel Pineiro, Another possible SP.

Depending on Erstad's physical condition, he would be a nice CF. The money Suppan is asking might be a little to much. Aubrey Huff???

Boston Herald was saying the Red Sox offered 6/48 and Boras was down to 6/66.

I figured they'd settle at around $10 - $12 million although I expected 4 years, we'lll see what happens.

Yeah Boston has been pushing for Matsuzaka to assert himself more in the negotiations.

Matsuzaka wants to pitch in America next season, sure his agent is going to push the limit, but when push comes to shove Matsuzaka is going to sign that contract.

It would be some major bad press state side and in Japan if he didn't. All that hype and expectations thrown out the window.

well getting Erstad would guarantee Felix Pie plays next year. Guy can't stay healthy. Scioscia swears by him though, certainly doesn't have the numbers, but has the "win at all costs" attitude that managers fall in love with...

Great glove when he's out there.....

I would be willing to bet that the Red Sox will stick with 6 years, or at worst, not give MAtsuzaka an out after contract and make him go through arb-eligible years. For that posting fee, they need to know at least they are geting 6 years from him.

Rick Ankiel got non-tendered? Aw, crap. I was almost pulling for that guy to not completely suck as an outfielder.

A real headcase, that one.

ESPN reporting that Matsuzaka is on a plane with RedSox brass heading back to BOS for a physical.

Didn't Steve Phillips make that Kazmir/V.Zambrano trade? They always crack on him on Baseball Tonight for it.

Bogey-
Phillips was fired in June of 2003. Phillips was replaced by Duquette. Duquette had the job until Minaya took over in September of 2004. So it was Duquette who made the trade.

I also see that the Dodgers non-tendered Jayson Wirth. That might be nice bench pick-up.

I know he hasn't played in the since 2005 because A.J. Burnett destroyed his wrist with a fastball in 2005 ST, but if he would be even half of what he was in 2004, when he 16 HR's in 90 games in the great expanse known as Chavez Ravine, that wouldn't be too bad.

Maybe I'm jaded because it seems like he was on BBTN every single night in 2004 because he always did something good. I dunno. Guess I think he's better than Daryle.

Amusing bit from the Boston Herald article on Daisuke:

The Red Sox are shaking their heads, wondering how Matsuzaka and his agent Scott Boras can overlook the $51.11 million that they will send to the Seibu Lions if Matsuzka signs, meaning a total commitment of more than $99 million. Meanwhile Matsuzaka and Boras are wondering if the Red Sox think Daisuke Matsuzaka is Japanese for ìGil Meche'í or ìRandy Wolf.'í

re #24:

I love Erstad. He's one of my favorite players. But as you mentioned, how many games can we expect him to play. I wouldn't mind Felix Pie playing 40 games in Erstad's absence.

I'd like to see Pie play in 150 games in Erstad's absence.

Darin Effing Erstad.

Let's all just step away from the crack pipe people.
If he hits as well as he did in 2005:
.273/.325/.371...wouldn't Pie be able to approximate that for much less? I think he'd probably do even a little better.
Let's go get Jay Payton too...

Let's go get Jay Payton too...

He signed with Baltimore.

Early AP reports insinuating Matsuzaka will get appx 6/$52 + escalating clauses/incentives.

as much as any of us may like pie, it seems as if he's not in the starting plans.

...and as much as people like me wanna see jones stay and play CF for the next 2 years; all the hendry talk is pointing to a scenario where he's traded and a 1-year stopgap is put in place.

it seems the team is dedicated to pie and they expect him to show up to get a taste sometime this season, but they also dont wanna block him with a multi-year, and it seems 2 years of jones in CF isnt on the table right now.

SI's J.Heyman has also picked up the 6/$52m and notes escalators could take the conrract up to 6/$60m.

WFAN says 6 years/$51 million for Matsuzaka.

The Red Sox buried Boras. They got 6 years and only 8 million a year. NICE!!

Burried Boras? They are paying a guy almost 17 million a year who has never thrown a ball in the Major Leagues. I'd say Boras burried the Sox. Boras got that much money from a team that had no competitors.

I hope this guy is a career .500 pitcher with an e.r.a. @4.50.

So then, if he's a 4.50 ERA .500 pitcher, the 6 yrs/ $51 mill would be about right?
See Meche...Lilly....Padilla...

Chad:
"Burried Boras? They are paying a guy almost 17 million a year who has never thrown a ball in the Major Leagues. I'd say Boras burried the Sox. Boras got that much money from a team that had no competitors."

Absolutely they did...

Boras was saying he wanted $100 million for DM not counting the posting fee. Or Boras wanted only 3 years and then have DM be able to become a FA. He got nothing close to that. And Boras doesn't get any commission, not even a penny of the $51.1 million.

The Red Sox couldn't of done much better with the contract part of the deal.

The Boras Premium might be negated for a while by the Free Agent Premium that seems to have gripped the market. It's like everyone is represented by Boras circa 2000.

In related news, the White Sox vow to never sign another free agent again.

They are paying a guy almost 17 million a year who has never thrown a ball in the Major Leagues.

Chad...6/51 is 17 million a year?

Looks to me like that is a little under 8.5 million a year.

Sure...they are paying a lot more than that when you factor in the posting fee, but Matsuzaka or Boras are not going to see any of that money.

Right because Boras sees none of the $51m posting fee so I'd say that's a pretty good deal for the RedSox in terms of finance because they'll make most of that posting fee $ back in publicity/marketing in the Far East, an obvious cable/broadcast deal which I'm sure is already in the works between the Red Sox and some Japanese broadcaster, not to mention getting other players into their new development centers in China and Japan, and of course merch sales. Now in terms of on field, he could be great like some experts think, or he could be Hideki Irabu who a lot of scouts called the Japanese Nolan Ryan. It will probably hurt a little more if R.Clemens actually announces he would've come back to BOS for one year...but who knows, maybe the Sox could still bring him back and slide Papelbon back to the closer's role for one more year because that bullpen looks terrible right now.

Dave,

Are you being intentionally obtuse? You must include the posting fee in that. While the money doesn't go to Matsuzaka, it does come out of John Henry's pocket. So, if you have ever studied business you would know that the cost of this guy must include the posting fee amortized over the life of the contract. Sheesh, and I'm a Liberal Arts Major and I get this.

You are right Chad, but don't say "you're paying a guy $17 million a year," when the player's salary is only $8.5 million or whatever it is.

The Sox chose to pay a huge posting fee to get the rights to this player. Boras had nothing to do with that.

John Henry's pockets are deep, he'll be okay.

One difference between the posting fee and salary to Matsuzaka is that the BoSox don't pay taxes on it. So if you divide the 51.11 by six years, that's 8.52 million a year for the posting fee, or only about $6 million compared to what equal dollars would have cost if they had been taxed.

and I'm sure the major sticking point between Boras and the Red Sox was to get Matsuzaka to FA as soon as possible...I'm sure he was shooting for a 3 yr contract initially.

WPZ, please explain further. Wouldn't it go the opposite way. That the 8 million would have been 10? I dunno. Can you clarify?

I'm sure the Royals planned on Gil Meche bringing in a ton of revenue on broadcasting and jersey sales. Luckily I wasn't one of the gullable fools who dropped a cent on any Sosa merch.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

No Chad. But do you intentionally write poorly so that you don't actually portray what you mean?

You must include the posting fee in that. While the money doesn't go to Matsuzaka, it does come out of John Henry's pocket.

I agree that that Boston still needs to pay the money. I never said anything about that. I simply said that Boston was not paying Matsuzaka 17 million a year, as you said.

As already mentioned, Boras initially wanted ace money - 15+ million a year - on top of the posting fee. And he isn't going to get anything close to that, at least not guaranteed.

Dave, it was pretty obvious what Chad meant. You're just being a nit.

I'm not an expert on payroll taxes. But as I understand it, there's no tax involved on a posting fee because it's money spent inside the business as opposed to net income or payroll, which are taxed. If the Red Sox made $100 million last year (just throwing in a number from thin air), then they can subtract the $51.11 million from that for a pre-tax income of $48.89. They will pay about $17-20 million less in taxes.

If they pay that $51M money as a salary to DMat, then DMat automatically will pay something like $17M in taxes. Agents know when they negotiate a contract that the player doesn't actually get the dollars involved because of taxes, so they push for more. Same as you and I except we (at least I) make a lot less than DMat, so we're not talking about millions of dollars.

Maybe someone here is in accounting and can explain it a little better.

Dave, it was pretty obvious what Chad meant. You're just being a nit.

No...chad said this:

They are paying a guy almost 17 million a year who has never thrown a ball in the Major Leagues. I'd say Boras burried the Sox. Boras got that much money from a team that had no competitors.

This does more than just imply that the Red Sox are paying Matsuzaka 17 million a year. Chad also said that Boras "got that much money," but that is patently false.

Boras supposedly got his guy about 8.5 million a year, which nowhere near where what he said his client would receive. And it is nowhere near ace money. Boras most definitely did not bury the Red Sox.

mannytrillo:
The Red Sox buried Boras. They got 6 years and only 8 million a year. NICE!!

#108 of 255: By Ryno (November 13, 2006 04:08 PM)
...I'd value him at about $8 mil/year. Maybe he's a #2 starter, but I wouldn't want to count on him as an ace.

By the way, $8 million is too much for the guy, but in today's FA market, it's probably right on par.

Does anyone find it completely silly how much money the Seibu Lions get out of this deal? That's Japanese-American business in a nutshell: American ball team paying 51.1 million dollars to a Japanese team for rights to negotiate with him. Seriously?

i dont understand...horatio said this wasnt supposed to happen.

my life is crumbling before me. up is down, left is right, and nothing makes sense anymore.

Does anyone find it completely silly how much money the Seibu Lions get out of this deal?

Boras said that the 51 million would cover their payroll for three years. Not sure that you can trust Boras, but if that is true, that would be like the Cubs receiving over 300 million dollars.

That's a lot of sushi.

Well thank you Jan Brady. "Exact words, exact words".

Stop acting like a child.

Neither side buried the other. Boras gave ground on money, Boston gave ground on the total commitment.

if this was a cubs signing would people be talking about the deal the cubs were getting putting 10m a year into mats or the insanity of the total 18.5m+ investment into mats?

i dont think too many people would be excited about the total payout investment except the "screw the money its not mine" people.

btw, has the love for kid-spend-a-lot died yet? theo's a hack with a checkbook who's taken it on his own to break some "unwritten rules" of proper negotiation in the past.

The Red Sox buried Boras. Boras has nothing to do with Seibu and/or the posting fee. Boras wanted $100 million contract he settled for $52 million and had to let Mats sign for 6 years too. Hopefully that will knock Boras down a peg. But unfortunately he will probably jump right back up a peg with a HUGE Zito signing coming up with TEX or NYM.

Saying that, Matsuzaka was going to get roughly $100 million no matter what. If the posting fee was only $30 million, he would of gotten a 6 year $70 million contract. It is just very nice to see Boras get the short end of the stick and not get as much commission.

But Manny, it was simply never going to happen. Like I said, Boras did great when he had ZERO leverage.

Pardon me for a moment, but since you cared to call us out...

Um, Horatio, where are you pal?

A 500 word paragraph on my awesomness and those that agreed with me sounds fair.....

:)

and I normally hate the whole gloating thing, but Horatio made it a point to call us all out on this one, eat your crow!!!!!

I assume Jones in CF is the plan right now -- "right now" meaning as the team is currently put together. For that plan to change, they would need to find a) a decent stop gap CF and b) somebody to take JJ, and would have to pull this off pretty much simultaneously.

Adding yet another OF with JJ still on the payroll doesn't make sense. So, what to do with JJ, and what do you trde him for? Prospects?

Well Boras isn't about to file for bankrupty and take on a Buddhist lifestyle all of a sudden. I applaud the Red Sox for sticking mostly to their guns, but Boras did well in the situation as well. If he's upset about anything, I bet it's the 6 years he had to give up.

Chad:
"Like I said, Boras did great when he had ZERO leverage."

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think Boras could of done any worse. The Red Sox could not of offered any less than $8 million per year without really bargaining in bad faith, considering what the market is this year.

"A 500 word paragraph on my awesomness and those that agreed with me sounds fair....."

only 500?

you're too easy on him.

bring rob the wookie, if it comes through TCR, it comes through him.

seriously, though...BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN.

Boras did not do a great job. He got an average contract for a pitcher with a very high ceiling, and he gave up 2- 3 years of contract control.
It is a contract 90% of the registered player's agents could have negotiated.
Clemen's agent does a great job. This one is very pedestrian.

boston has no incentive to give him anything but league average.

NO ONE who comes from japan, including one of their best powerhitters and bet hitters ever made bank on their first contracts.

if boras really wanted that OMG money boras would have pushed for a 3yr FA deal like matsui got...sucked up making 8m-ish for the next 3 years, then let his boy sign a 14-16m multiyear deal.

theyre going for a level of pay+safety with this contract if it is true as stands.

Wha??

"Adding yet another OF with JJ still on the payroll doesn't make sense. So, what to do with JJ, and what do you trde him for? Prospects?"

Why do you keep re-hashing and re-hashing this?

There is no necessity on behalf of the Cubs to do anything with Jacque Jones, except welcome him to Spring Training.

You might want to save yourself some sleepless nights and realize that he will be a Cub in 2007.

"Trade him for prospects." Yeah, right.

It ain't happening.

Again, Boras didn't get "buried." Getting Boston to guarantee six years means that he effectively got Boston to relinquish their financial control over Mats. If he ends up sucking or getting hurt, they can no longer nontender him -- they're committed to him for six years. That's a pretty big deal when you're talking about a pitcher that's completely unproven at the MLB level.

On the whole payroll tax question, the Red Sox will not realize any savings by paying $51 million to the Seibu Lions rather than Matsuzaka. Since the payroll tax (social security) is capped at $90,000, Matsuzaka will max out on his first paycheck each year whether he's making $8 million or $80 million.

Vorare:
"Again, Boras didn't get "buried"."

That is your opinion, I think otherwise.

"Getting Boston to guarantee six years means that he (Boras) effectively got Boston to relinquish their financial control over Mats"

Boston wanted 6 years, not Boras. They wanted to justify the $51.1 million posting fee. And by spreading it over 6 years make it much more reasonable. If they only signed him for 3 years for $8 million then BOST would of spent $75 million for 3 years.

Obtuse?

Nice "Shawshank Redemption" reference.

almost as nice as crunch ripping me off.

who's kelso and what did i rip off?

Kelso is Ashton Kuchner's character on "That 70's Show". Says "BUUUUUURRRRRNNNN" a lot...

is there word on the actual incentives yet? those should be interesting, wonder if Boras weaseled an out in there somehow if he performs well. And how much does is the ceiling on the deal?

being a product of the 70s and 80s i can assure kelso the poster that the particular phrase in question has been in my arsenal for quite a while.

also "cool" "bitchin" "oh snap," but not "the bee's knees" or "capital knockers, maam".

oh nevermind, $60 million on the escalating clauses, damn GO RED SOX!!!

One way or the other, Ashton Kutcher just got referenced here. A dark, dark day for the entire TCR community.

23 skidoo?

Boston wanted 6 years, not Boras. They wanted to justify the $51.1 million posting fee. And by spreading it over 6 years make it much more reasonable. If they only signed him for 3 years for $8 million then BOST would of spent $75 million for 3 years.

Manny:

You're ignoring the club control issue. Assuming they didn't agree otherwise, Boston was going to have six years of club control over Matsuzaka regardless of how long the initial contract was. A shorter deal would have meant risking that he pitches like an ace and commands a significnat raise in arbitration, but it would also have meant that if Matsuzaka sucked it up for whatever reason, they could simply release him and have no further financial obligation.

With this deal, they're going to be paying Matsuzaka $8MM+ per year for the next six years regardless of whether he pitches like Cy Young or Glendon Rusch.

On the whole payroll tax question, the Red Sox will not realize any savings by paying $51 million to the Seibu Lions rather than Matsuzaka.

You are right about the payroll tax cap, but I don't think the tax difference WPZ was refering to has more to do with the BoSox's corporate income tax than its payroll taxes.

If I understood correctly, the $51 million paid for the posting fee gets written off as a business expense and is deducted from the teams overall income when doing their taxes.

If that same amount of money was used on payroll for Mats's salary, it would not be deductable.

However, I know very little about corporate tax law, so I have no idea if that is actually accurate or not.

OH, the very fact that there is a payroll tax in this country yet you cannot deduct your payroll as business expense is criminal.

F the IRS.

FLAT TAX ME NOW!

Vorare,

Other Japanese players have been able to become free agents before six years by wording their contracts that the team cannot offer them arbitraion after 3 years (Matsui, Hideki for example) and I'm sure that's exactly what Boras wanted for Matz. I think it was a huge concession on there part to agree to six years and an extremely reasonable average salary. Even the incentives don't make it that rich....

Of course, for all we know Matsuzaka wanted the safety net of a 6 yr deal.

FLAT TAX ME NOW!

Oh Chad. You really are trying to start fights with me today, aren't you?

Luckily I will leave this one alone...

Let's save that argument for a more political forum.

Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!

*cheers*

Let's save that argument for a more political forum.

That was my thought also...but it could have been fun. :)

#91: What is that a reference to?

If I understood correctly, the $51 million paid for the posting fee gets written off as a business expense and is deducted from the teams overall income when doing their taxes.

If that same amount of money was used on payroll for Mats's salary, it would not be deductable.

Payroll expense is just as deductable as any other business expense.

Here's a link in case there's anyone out there interested in reading up on the tax code...

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch02.html

Let's save that argument for a more political forum.

We should start a "Cubs fan" political blog, where we can argue about things like taxation, abortion, and small American flags all day! :)

I am half serious...

#91: What is that a reference to?

Its from the Simpsons. The 1996 Treehouse of Horror, where Kang and Kodos abuduct Clinton and Dole and take their places in the presidential election.

"#91: What is that a reference to?"

its a simpsons reference from one of the most politically challenged simpsons episodes they ever made.

it was from a halloween episode (treehouse of horror 7) railing on the clinton/dole election.

contrary to some conservative's weird opinions, clinton was not a liberal (what liberal supports NAFTA anyway? that's just crazy to any liberal.) and a lot of people felt a vote for one was a vote for the other with most of the campaigning taking place on issues that didn't really matter at all to a person who's mission is to direct the country and influence the spending of trillions of our money.

the episode just delivered slam after slam on those points. dont think the simpsons have done anything closely as political before or since.

Announcer: Ladies and Gentlemen, 73-year-old candidate, Bob Dole.

Kang: Abortions for all.

[crowd boos]

Very well, no abortions for anyone.

[crowd boos]

Hmm... Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

[crowd cheers and waves miniature flags]

the folks at BP attempted a Matsuzaka translation/prediction for 2007 and came up with
15 W, near 4.00 ERA, 187.5 IP and about a K per IP. I wonder if they factored in how many blown saves that bully will cost his win total if Papelbon is in the rotation.

dont think the simpsons have done anything closely as political before or since.

Apparently you haven't seen any recent episodes, have you Crunch? These days they are getting in a thinnly vieled slam against Bush and/or the war about every 3rd episode.

This year's Treehouse had Kang and Kodos taking over earth and expecting to be "greated as liberators." There have been many more examples just like it over the past 2-3 years.

Sadly, the show is just a cracked shell of its once great self.

"Sadly, the show is just a cracked shell of its once great self."

If that.

I see that Toronto has offered Vernon Wells a 7/126 extension. I suppose that number sounds about right for all the hijinks and tomfoolery that's been going on this off-season.

It seems Wells acknowledged that said offer was made, but had no other comment on it.

That number is fair for Wells, but is he going to get a lot more in the offseason next year? I think so. I doubt he accepts this early.

ROB G: By trading Freddie Bynum, the Cubs had already opened up a roster spot for Ted Lilly. Dropping Harben and Reyes clears spots for Ward and Marquis. So no additional roster spots will be needed unless and until the Cubs add somebody else (like Cliff Floyd, maybe).

aw crap, I knew that. Thanks, I'll fix it.

V.Wells apparently is good friends with M.Young and wants to go home to Arlington, but on the off chance TEX nets Zito, not sure the $ will be there for him. If Zito goes to the Mets or Giants(or some other under the radar club) then they'll have the money and Wells will likely play out the remainder of the season. It's fair market value but it probably won't be too long until Wells has to slide over to LF or RF. He's never really had blazing speed and getting that offensive production out of a premium position like CF is what is drawing the high dollar. You could get a very similar player like A.Jones as a FA next season too so there is going to be competition on the open market. Never thought that $17m per year deal Beltran got would prove to almost be a bargain.

Vorare:
"With this deal, they're going to be paying Matsuzaka $8MM+ per year for the next six years regardless of whether he pitches like Cy Young or Glendon Rusch."

Yep, they are going "all in" on this deal. They think he is the next Johan Santana or better. You don't post $51.1 million and then hedge your bets. They wanted him for 6 years, they got him for 6 years. IMO, I think Boston got everything they wanted out of the contract, while Boras got little, if anything. Just my opinion.

Chad:
"FLAT TAX ME NOW!"

One day hopefully soon...

Too bad it is the fairest form of taxation, so that is why it won't happen or hasn't happened.

SPEAKING of Tax: How does the V.Wells "reported" offer above swing in Canadian dollars? Do U.S. athletes who play in Canada come out ahead?

I would think they are still filing in the U.S.

I realize there are advantages to playing in some states over others, but what about my favorite Province north of the border?

Did you really need to chime in on that one Manny? everyone else seemed to agree that this isn't the place for that discussion and now you reopened the door. Meh...

Rob G.:
"Did you really need to chime in on that one Manny? everyone else seemed to agree that this isn't the place for that discussion and now you reopened the door. Meh..."

I respond to posts as I read down...

Didn't read the other posts about not talking about it till after I posted.

Anyways Rob G., with your iron fist around here, I am sure nobody else will talk about it. Meh...

PITCHING TO TRADE:

any idea what the cubs plan on doing with their tertiary portion of the staff?:

obviously, with a plan to hold 11 pitchers, and i'm counting 13 guys who have proven they belong on a big league roster, PLUS another 6 who have big league arms / potential.

Starters: (7) Zam, Lilly, Prior, Hill, Marquis, Miller, Marshall all compete for starting jobs.

Leaving a pen of(6): Dempster, Wood, Eyre, Howry, Ohman, Cotts

This leaves the following seven guys completely expendable, or minor league bound: Guzman, Marmol, Novoa, Wuertz, Mateo, Rusch, Rye.

Too many arms - & TOO MANY LEFT FIELDERS (MURTON, JACQUE, AND SORIANO).

Me & Lou really like Baldelli. I'd attempt to get two pitchers (Eyre & Weurtz) and Murton or Pie in exchange for Baldelli.

How does the V.Wells "reported" offer above swing in Canadian dollars? Do U.S. athletes who play in Canada come out ahead?

I believe, off the top of my head, that Canada has a higher tax rate, but I may be wrong.

And come on Manny...don't egg me on. I am trying to avoid the political discussion, especially today with Chad. We already hate each other today. :)

Anyways Rob G., with your iron fist around here, I am sure nobody else will talk about it. Meh...

haha

There's a lovely non-baseball diary over at BCB, go talk about whatever suits your fancy over there.

Crunch-

Look for the episode where Krusty gets elected to Congress.

An all time great.

and dont blame me I voted for Kodos.

i havent seen the krusty/congress one...and yeah, i havent seen a lotta the newer ones, esp. the past 3-4 years.

i tend to catch episodes on reruns.

Strange. I was just over at a Simpson's blog, but everyone over there was talking about the Cubs.

My fantasy baseball team is the Springfield Isotopes.

Overall Canada does typically have higher tax rates, how else can they provide that vaunted health care system where each citizen is alloted one massage per month..seriously...just hope you don't require a health care specialist because you get tied up in Medicare like limbo.

Typically 3-8 percent higher based on state/province tax. Socialized medicine is the worst thing since private coverage.

Taxes, politics, health care and the Simpsons, this place is really dying for some real news or at least something baseball-related to argue about.

it wouldn't surprise me if there was already some JD Drew like "tampering" underhandedness with Wells and the Rangers. What with them (smartly)letting Matthews Jr walk and bringing in a one year stopgap like K.Lofton. Seems set up perfectly, and already talks of trading Teixeira to free up $...though they probably won't have to if they don't sign Zito.

a specialist? ya know you can get private health coverage in canada to cover such things...kinda like in america, only its generally cheaper cuz it dont have to cover everything and pay off the uninsured masses who drive things like the price of a "tylenol" up to 13 dollars each (the exact price at a local hospital...the only alternative...buy your own privately to supply, which is allowed).

its socialist healthcare, not totalitarian healthcare.

go cubs!

Washington Post says that Jose Vidro has told friends he's been traded to the Mariners for Chris Snelling & Emiliano Fruto (???)

Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto to the Nationals for second baseman Jose Vidro, according to the Washington Post. The Nationals intend to pay $12MM of the $16MM remaining on Vidro's contract for 2007-08.

damn.

They like Snelling that much? Geesh. Even the trades are starting to not make sense.

Bogey:
Overall Canada does typically have higher tax rates, how else can they provide that vaunted health care system where each citizen is alloted one massage per month..seriously...

Word. I know social healthcare is the cool thing now days, but I just can't get on board with it. And I'm not sure if this is related or not, but I have no problem with rich people.

a specialist? ya know you can get private health coverage in canada to cover such things...kinda like in america, only its generally cheaper cuz it dont have to cover everything and pay off the uninsured masses who drive things like the price of a "tylenol" up to 13 dollars each (the exact price at a local hospital...the only alternative...buy your own privately to supply, which is allowed).

its socialist healthcare, not totalitarian healthcare.

----
always nice to hear about another country's health care system from someone in America who can barely speak English. My sister married a Canadian who needed a cornea specialist to correct a stigma and waited on a list for over 4 months to get approved despite him making over $75k per year. It's not a matter of money in Canada. Don't speak about things you don't know about. Sorry, I know this isn't the forum for this discussion but that comment was pure stupidity.

sorry to bring facts into it david.

and what you said has NOTHING to do with the point i was making about having private insurance.

nothing.

it kinda invalidates your rant.

btw, starting off with a baseless insult doesn't help your rant, either. if you're trying to make a point you probably should hold back on starting your greeting with an insult then follow it by ranting about something which has nothing to do with what i wrote.

and ending it with a pure stupidity comment...that's a punchline in itself.

I thought we were not talking about politics, and a discussion on healthcare is most definitely politics.

Maybe I really should start a Cubs Fans Only political blog...

hey, you called me out, man.

no big deal, go internet. go cubs.

dave is different than David. I am most definitely not David.

my bad. and sorry. and go cubs.

I feel sort of non-tendered right now.

ugh.

I like the Vidro deal for the Nats. Vidro's falling off a cliff, and to convert him into a very live arm and potential help for what looks to be an anemic OF ain't bad.

Snelling's still young and could be very useful if he can stay healthy.

I feel sort of non-tendered right now.

Trans...does that mean Fullerton did not go well? Sorry, if thats that case.

SPEAKING of Tax: How does the V.Wells "reported" "offer above swing in Canadian dollars? Do U.S. athletes who play in Canada come out ahead?

I would think they are still filing in the U.S.

I realize there are advantages to playing in some states over others, but what about my favorite Province north of the border?"

--

Manny,

Did you know that the top 5% in the US pay for 95% of tax dollars paid to US government?

It means I haven't heard back from them yet, which most likely means that they will offer me the job if their top pick turns it down, but they don't want to tell me this for negotiating reasons. Or, it means they just can't decide and are taking their sweet time.

But the original statement was more a reflection of grading end of semester papers and exams.

blech.

i want more baseless insults...now.

henry, your request for an insult is something i would expect from someone dumb enough to have only 1 vowel in their name.

*insert 7-8 lines of text about the effect of the spanish american war on foreign policy*

and that's why marcus giles was DFA'd.

"Manny,

Did you know that the top 5% in the US pay for 95% of tax dollars paid to US government?"

Wha?

Please clarify in detail and back up with your source for this misinformation, please.

trib wakes up and writes something for the web for the first time in a few days by dave "lol, he said" dyck.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

---

"We'd like to do a few more things, but there's nothing urgent," Hendry said.

-

If a thorny spot remains, it is in the outfield, where the Cubs basically have no center fielder to replace the departed Juan Pierre. And another hole might open up if Hendry trades Jacque Jones, which is not an automatic.

No, its not an "automatic", nor is there a necessity to do so unless it makes the team better. Plan on him being here for 2007.

Matt:
"Manny, Did you know that the top 5% in the US pay for 95% of tax dollars paid to US government?"

Not sure why this was directed at me since the comment you were responding to wasn't made by me.

And by the way, I did know it was about that percentage breakdown.

I should say I'm not sure what the breakdown is, but I know the top 5-10% pay a good majority.

its closer to 50%, btw.

and its individual returns...if they actually collected corporate taxes properly rather than the massive corporate welfare the individual liability wouldnt be as big.

that's the real simple version of that.

95% would be closer to to top 50% of taxpayers.

"#141 of 144: By The E-Man "

Poor people, especially with kids, don't pay taxes. Or if they do, they pay very little.

That is why people against the flat tax say it favors the rich.

any flat tax that would be reasonable would exclude the poor. their contribution is neglegible, even in the current graduated system.

btw, next time you do your taxes check out those deductions. they're very important to most any middle class and esp. families with children.

the whole issue of our tax system cant just be viewed as money in/money out...it has a societial role, such as the current renewable energy deductions.

some would say the govt. shouldnt be in the business of forcing roles like that, but its deep in our history and the history of other countries.

and yeah, go cubs.

I can't wait until we get back to baseball discussion.

for those interested, a complete NT list is available at Baseball Daily Digest.

I did not know Jorge Sosa was part of this...

crunch:
henry, your request for an insult is something i would expect from someone dumb enough to have only 1 vowel in their name.

*insert 7-8 lines of text about the effect of the spanish american war on foreign policy*

and that's why marcus giles was DFA'd.

So funny...

btw, next time you do your taxes check out those deductions. they're very important to most any middle class and esp. families with children.

Deductions are cool, it's the concept of "refundable credit" that doesn't make sense.

The E-Man:
I did not know Jorge Sosa was part of this...

I got to looking at his stats and wow... what the hell happened in '05? 134.0 IP of dumb luck?

Um, according to this site:

http://www.mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/

"According to WFAN in New York, the Cubs have signed Cliff Floyd to one year deal, worth around 6 million dollars. Although this still may be a rumor, it has been reported all week that he was looking to sign with the Cubs. Floyd, who was burdened with injuries all year, will probably platoon with Matt Murton in left field. Floyd, 34, batted .244 with 11 HR and 44 RBI. He is a career .279 hitter who is also being pursued by the Athletics, Orioles, Rangers, and Mariners."

IF this is true, what sense does it make? Could Soriano play center, trade Jones and have Floyd play right? Or just stick with a platoon despite noise Murton was our starter?

next on the simpsons:

homer finds a loophole in the tax laws that allow him to make a massive deduction if he gets bart to play left field for the cubs and donate his earnings to The Cub Reporter.

unfortunately, homer interferes with a foul ball that could have ended the wild-card clinching game...

"According to WFAN in New York, the Cubs have signed Cliff Floyd to one year deal, worth around 6 million dollars. Although this still may be a rumor..."

either theyre reporting it or they're not. i dont get that writeup...they dont seem sure of themselves.

Cubby, thankfully for Homer that's called "pulling a Bartman". "Pulling a Homer" is an entirly different thing.

Steve Stone on Boers and Bernstein (WSCR) 12/13/2006. Click Here for the mp3 file.

From WSCR 670 The Score

As things stand guys, I don't think we yet have a competitive team. Soriano is a major plus - no doubt - but as leadoff hitter, he is not going to add as much value as he could in the no. 5 slot. Good baseball teams have a good 1,2,3 punch (e.g.: jeter, a-rod, giambi / pujols, edmonds, rolen). Jock and Michael Barrett are not good enough as the 3 to DLee and ARam's 1 and 2 in my opinion. Derosa is an upgrade at 2B but Izturis is truly awful at SS. The difference that Soriano brings is only negligible over 162 games.

As for pitching, a 2007 rotation of Z, Lilly, Marquis, Hill and Miller / Prior is not substantially better than our 2006 rotation of Z, Maddux, Marshall, Prior, Rusch. We don't know what we're going to get out of Hill or Marquis and our number 5 spot is still incomplete. In my opinion, it is simply not good enough to get us to where we want to be.

This is all very pessimistic I know and I apologise. However, I think that even the current names being floated (Cliff Floyd, Baldelli etc.) are still not going to make a major difference. What I think we need to compete is:

- a big bat centre fielder (in the mould of Beltran, Wells or Andruw); and

- a legitimate no. 2 in our rotation (someone like Jake Westbrook or the recently departed Jason Jennings).

I know that this is obviously much easier said than done and is very unlikely to happen. Without those moves though, sad as it seems, I just can't bring myself to drink the kool-aid.

"Izturis is truly awful at SS..."

With a bat, yes. In the field, no.

"...our 2006 rotation of Z, Maddux, Marshall, Prior, Rusch."

This was not really "our rotation" if you followed the team for the entire season.

The team on paper is probably 15-17 games better, but that is still not good enough. It will be interesting to see what develops...

Ernie:
As things stand guys, I don't think we yet have a competitive team.

This team is not competitive in the NLC? Come on, as it stands now, the DRays would be competitive in the NLC.

Agreed that this team isn't ideal, despite all the money they spent, though. What a stupid offseason for the Cub's to finally spend some money.

Ernie - I understand the pessimism, and you may very well turn out to be right. But I don't think batting Soriano 1st in the order makes that big of a difference. E-Man already mentioned Izturis - not a big deal if we still have Alfie, DLee, ARam, JJ and Barrett. The pitching? Definitely better with an innings-eater added, and lots of upside potential with the marginal / injury guys.

To me, the biggest risk is that guys like DLee, ARam and definitely Soriano disappoint next year vs. what their recent history would suggest. Bottom line, if the Cubs suck next year (and who's to argue for sure they won't), it'll be because of that.

Soriano is a major plus - no doubt - but as leadoff hitter, he is not going to add as much value as he could in the no. 5 slot.

He actually adds more value as a leadoff hitter. His numbers throughout his career are superior when he's hitting in the leadoff spot. His 2 worst seasons were in Texas when they tried to use him as a #5 and #3 hitter.

"The difference that Soriano brings is only negligible over 162 games"

Um...any time you add a guy who can hit 30-40 HR's, and steal 30-40 bases, it is more than a "negligible" difference that he'll make.
It's not like the Cubs added a guy to hit .270, with 15 HR's and 70 RBI's.

The Cubs don't NEED another big bat in the lineup, there's more than anough power as is. What they absolutely need are players with plate discipline who can draw walks and be on base consistently.

Ryan Church or Brady Clark for CF would do nicely. Keep Murton and his superior OBP in the lineup as often as possible.

Just an FYI, Jim Hendry will be on Mike & Mike on ESPN Radio in like 10 minutes at 9:20 AM EST. I will give a run down of what he says for those not able to listen.

Given that Izzy seems to have a recurring leg (?)injury, and that playing shortstop will likely result in his getting hurt again, what's the backup plan for SS? Sounds like Ronny is (appropriately) in the doghouse, and neither Derosa nor The Riot seem like everyday shortstops. Banking on a full yar of a healhty Izzy seems like banking on Kerry or Prior, given his recent history -- might happen, but be prepared for it not to.

Hendry on ESPN Radio (Mike & Mike):

- He is feeling terrific, admits he needs to make some changes.
- Soriano was going to get paid that money from somewhere. Would like to of done less than than 8 years, but he did what had to to get the deal done.
- Thinks Lilly is a 15 game winner and better than advertised.
- Marquis a 14-15 game winner with lots of innings.
- Thinks Wood will be able to pitch 30-35 pitches 4-5 times a week out of bullpen.
- Hopeful and no reason to think Prior won't be ready, but won't be caught unprepared.
- Posting system needs to be addressed and changed. System is out of whack.

Discuss.....

theriot and derosa are both very capable SS's...both can also cover 2nd. cedeno's still around, but i dunno how pinhead plans on using any of these guys but derosa right now.

Big John: I have looked at Soriano's numbers as a leadoff hitter as opposed to middle of the lineup and you are absolutely right that he is better there. I just think that a big bat after Dlee and Aram would have been potentially even more useful. Perhaps not.

E-man: you are also correct that Izzy has a great glove, I was speaking from a purely offensive point of view.

I am surprised that Hendry thinks that Marquis is a 15 game winner. He will eat a lot of innings but he definitely serves up some HR balls. I think he loses more than he wins.

As for pitching, a 2007 rotation of Z, Lilly, Marquis, Hill and Miller / Prior is not substantially better than our 2006 rotation of Z, Maddux, Marshall, Prior, Rusch.

I know E-man mentioned it, but when was that EVER the Cubs Rotation in 2006?

The problem is that the Cubs really didn't have a set rotation in 2006. Other than Zambrano (and even he missed most of a month) there was no one on the staff who pitched the whole year. Maddux wasn't there for 2 month, Marshall was out for about the same amount of time, and Prior and Rusch made so few starts, its hardly worth mentioning them.

To ignore those things and say a full year worth of Hill and Lilly alone isn't a substantial improvement from a half year of Maddux and a half year of Hill (not even mentioning how he improved late in the season) is being pesimistic without looking at reality, IMO.

The trouble is, we don't know what we are going to get from Hill. I am still far too tainted by his start against the White Sox where I thought he threw pants. I agree the rotation is better, I just don't think it's substantially better. Still needs another no. 2.

- Marquis a 14-15 game winner with lots of innings.

One of the things Hendry did mention that I did find interesting is that Marquis has actual won more games than either Zito or Schmidt over the last 3 years.

Now admittedly, I think that says a whole lot more about how worthless W-L record is to determine a pitchers value, but it was still an interesting statement nonetheless.

Bleeding Blue:
"One of the things Hendry did mention that I did find interesting is that Marquis has actual won more games than either Zito or Schmidt over the last 3 years."

Yeah, great job Hendry, I can't imagine how you got such a great deal with Marquis compared to what Zito is going to sign. It is just a way for Hendry to deflect the stupidness of the signing.

Ernie:
"I agree the rotation is better, I just don't think it's substantially better. Still needs another no. 2."

I agree...I think the rotation might be slightly better and they still need a #2.

I agree. That Marquis has won more games counts for very little, he has nearly always had excellent run support. Hopefully Rothschild and Hendry have seen something that I don't.

The trouble is, we don't know what we are going to get from Hill. I am still far too tainted by his start against the White Sox where I thought he threw pants.

Of course there are no sure things, but to say we don't know what we are going to get is a bit much.

To ignore what Hill did in the second half of his season compared to the first half, just doesn't see fair either. Yes, he had some shitty games in June, but look at what he did in August and September. From August on, Hill had an ERA of 2.81!

Improvement over a season is a very good thing when you are talking about a young pitcher.

When you look at how Hill dominated AAA and you look at how dramatically his season changed after getting his first win, it certainly seems that his problem was confidence, not his stuff. And his stuff is good enough to be at least a strong #2 starter on almost any staff in baseball.

Poor people, especially with kids, don't pay taxes. Or if they do, they pay very little.

Sorry...but I cant let Chad get away with this.

The poor very much pay taxes. They pay property taxes. They pay sales tax. They pay into social security. They pay the gas tax. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I could go on, but to assert that the poor do not pay taxes is flat out wrong.

#175 of 175: By Ernie (December 14, 2006 10:19 AM)
I agree. That Marquis has won more games counts for very little, he has nearly always had excellent run support. Hopefully Rothschild and Hendry have seen something that I don't.

==========================================

ERNIE: Old School baseball people believe when a healthy starting pitcher consistently wins a certain number of games (like maybe 14-16) from year-to-year, it means he is able to "pitch-up" to his competition. In other words, he pitches as well as he needs to pitch to win a given game.

As long as that pitcher is pitching for a team that is a contender (and there's the rub), and stays healthy, it is presumed that pitcher will continue to win the same number of games. The concept isn't sabermetric, because it involves a belief in the value of human competitive psychology & motivation over cold statistical analysis and statistical projections.

In a similar way, Old School baseball people are not that impressed with a pitcher pitching for a contender who consistently puts up a low ERA and a low WHIP, a high K total, and a low OPP BA, but can't consistently win games (especially a "big" game), because it is presumed he has a flaw in his "make-up" (like maybe he lacks the heart--or competitive edge--needed to be a champion) that precludes him from doing whatever he has to do to win a particular game.

It's just an altrernative way of looking at baseball, like developing opinions about players by actually watching them play instead of just studying stats.

Thanks AZ Phil.

I think Muskrat's latest mailbag is her worst yet.

It is just a way for Hendry to deflect the stupidness of the signing.

I don't agree that that was Hendry's goal at all. I think that actually tells you a lot about his thought process in signing him. The fact that Marquis has that many decisions at the very least does say that he has been healthy and makes pretty much every start. It also says that Hendry is looking for him to be a guy who at the very least will be an innings eater after having no one on the staff make 30 starts last year.

Now, I still don't agree with the move, nor can I see how it could possibly justify a 3 year deal.

But really, If Hendry is actually "Teflon Jim," why would he ever need to deflect attention from any move he makes?

seeing as hendry has 07/08 left on his deal, the legacy he leaves in 09+ with his signings will probably carry him over to a new deal unless something goes seriously bad the next 2 years.

he's already spent about 2/3rd of the 09 money (barring another serious payroll increase)...especially if Z gets his expected extention, the liability for 09 could very well be around 70-80m that's already existing on the team.

MANNY: Thanks for the update on Mike and Mike.

Crunch:
"seeing as hendry has 07/08 left on his deal, the legacy he leaves in 09+ with his signings will probably carry him over to a new deal unless something goes seriously bad the next 2 years."

DON'T SAY THAT!!! You want to ruin my next two years?????

I can't see how an properly run organization would allow Hendry to keep his job if they don't make the playoffs this year. But this is the Cubs who haven't won a title in 98 years.

Bleeding Blue:
"But really, If Hendry is actually "Teflon Jim," why would he ever need to deflect attention from any move he makes?"

Oh some people actually put his feet to the fire (clearly not enough), but ultimately he can make bad move after bad move and no playoff season after no playoff season and none of it has "stuck" on him. There are many facets as to his Teflon-ness...:)

FIRE JIM!!!

*always nice to hear about another country's health care system from someone in America who can barely speak English....Don't speak about things you don't know about*

Never cast doubt on someone else's command of a language and then immediately show your own ignorance of the same.

On that note:
"My bad on the Ted Lilly reference earlier"

Your "bad" what?

*my bad. and sorry. and go cubs.*

Your "bad" what?

The dumbing-down of America continues unabated--yee-ha!

Manny -- You're hatred of Hendry knows no bounds. In the past, people (including you, I believe) have called on Hendry to be more aggressive, spend some money, sign some free agents and start acting like the GM of a large market team. Now that he has done that, you continue to critisize him and call for his firing.

This past off-season, Hendry has signed the two biggest FA position players available (A-Ram and Soriano) and signed one of the most sought after FA pitchers (Lilly). These were obviously big moves and were exactly what people were begging him to do (i.e. sign big name free agents). To crucify him before even one pitch is thrown seems to indicate that no matter what he did this off-season, your were still going to call for his head.

If you think he could have done a better job, fine. But already jumping on the "Fire Jim" bandwagon speaks more to your hatred of Hendry than to your objective view of the moves he's made.

The dumbing-down of America continues unabated--yee-ha!

You do know that dumbing is not a real word, right?

Sweet Lou:
"Manny -- You're hatred of Hendry knows no bounds."

Maybe so, but I think it is clearly justified. But the amount of support/excuses made for Hendry knows no bounds, IMO.

"In the past, people (including you, I believe) have called on Hendry to be more aggressive, spend some money, sign some free agents and start acting like the GM of a large market team. Now that he has done that, you continue to critisize him and call for his firing."

You are correct, I and many others have called out Hendry on that, but just because he went out and did it does not mean he gets a free ride. He signed the worst starting pitcher in 2006 to a 3 year deal. So just because he spent money, we should disregard who he spent it on. Hendry has proven with more than enough payroll that he can't build a consistent winning team. I hope Cubs brass sees it soon too.

"To crucify him before even one pitch is thrown seems to indicate that no matter what he did this off-season, your were still going to call for his head."

His team can actually make the playoffs for a change, that would stop me from calling for his head. But this is not his first year at GM, he has more than enough reasons built up over the past few years to crucify him.

"But already jumping on the "Fire Jim" bandwagon speaks more to your hatred of Hendry than to your objective view of the moves he's made."

I jumped on it before last year. I said if the Cubs did not make the playoffs he and Baker should be let go. I am not jumping on it now.

Manny -- Don't get me wrong. I'm no Hendry apologist. In fact, I blame Hendry much more for the debacle of 2006 than I do Dusty. But I don't think it makes sense to ignore the ARam, Soriano, and Lilly signings, and just focus on the Marquis signing in order to justify your calls for Hendry's firing. I'm not crazy about the Marquis signing either, but that one signing doesn't negate the other things Hendry has done this off-season.

I guess the thing that bothers me most about your posts is how tainted they are with Hendry hate. You seem like a knowledgable guy and I enjoy reading your posts, but sometimes your agenda speaks so loudly that it drowns out the point you are trying to make.

Sweet Lou:
"But I don't think it makes sense to ignore the ARam, Soriano, and Lilly signings, and just focus on the Marquis signing in order to justify your calls for Hendry's firing."

I am NOT doing that. I am looking at the big picture and the overall reign as Hendry as GM. The Marquis is just another notch in the bedpost, not the reason I want Hendry fired.

"I'm not crazy about the Marquis signing either, but that one signing doesn't negate the other things Hendry has done this off-season."

If you want to only look at this offseason, Hendry, IMO, has done very little to overall improve the team. The only player he has added that improved the team is Soriano, but that is a very nice addition. The DeRosa and Marquis signings were horrible, IMO and the Lilly signing was a dime a dozen .500 type starting pitcher. Meche, Maddux, Lilly, etc. are all about the same type pitcher, IMO. The ARam signing was good too, but as we all stated that was something that he had no choice but to do and in fact ARAM and his agent took advantage of them with the out and milked more money out of him.

At this point, I don't see much more than about a 12-15 win difference for next year. That would put us around .500. I am sorry, but for a team that will have the 3rd highest payroll in baseball and the highest in the NL, I would expect much higher expectations. Now if 2-3 pitchers (Hill, Marquis, Lilly, etc.) pitch well over my expectations, then I can see us getting closer to 90 wins.

Could I be wrong, absolutely, nobody really predicted what DET did last year or what CHW did the year before, but both of them had OUTSTANDING pitching staffs, and I just don't see ours in that category.

"I guess the thing that bothers me most about your posts is how tainted they are with Hendry hate. You seem like a knowledgable guy and I enjoy reading your posts, but sometimes your agenda speaks so loudly that it drowns out the point you are trying to make."

Sorry you feel that way, but just because I bitch about Hendry all the time, doesn't mean my points are legitimate. But I do not, nor will not apologize for blasting Hendry as I feel the Cubs cannot and will not go to the promise land with him as GM.

Sweet Lou:
"I guess the thing that bothers me most about your posts is how tainted they are with Hendry hate."

What bothers me about comments like this is I don't recall you once saying the same thing last year to the umpteen posters constantly blasting Baker. Do you not think their posts were "tainted with Baker hate"?

#192 -- Manny - I'm hurt that you don't recall the conversations we had during the season about Dusty & Hendry. We didn't share the same love for Dusty, but we did agree that Hendry was the main problem with the 2006 team. We also agreed that posters on TCR were way too overzelous about their disdain for Dusty and the blame they placed on him.

Having said that, I'm afraid you're doing the exact same thing to Hendry that other posters were doing previously to Dusty. Although I felt Hendry should be fired after the 2006 season, I'm willing to leave the past in the past and see what he can do with the 2007 team. I think the Cubs are going to be better than you predict, but only time will tell about that. I guess I'm just not willing to let what Hendry did last year affect my judgment of what he's doing this year. If the Cubs win the World Series in 2007, what Hendry did in 2006 will be nothing but a faded memory. If the Cubs suck again in 2007, I'll jump on the bandwagon with you.

Sweet Lou:
"I'm afraid you're doing the exact same thing to Hendry that other posters were doing previously to Dusty."

And that is your opinion, which is fine, but again, I don't recall you admonishing an individual poster like you just did to me. But at this point I can care less. I come on here to talk about the Cubs and give my opinions, just like everyone else. If Hendry does something good (trading Neifi and not paying any of the salary, signing Soriano, resigning ARam, etc.) I talk about it, but I feel he does more bad than good.

"Although I felt Hendry should be fired after the 2006 season, I'm willing to leave the past in the past and see what he can do with the 2007 team."

Well you have much more patience than I do. I pay lots of money each year to the Cubs and I expect much more out of the team. Just because the Trib brass made a mistake reupping Hendry, I am not going to sit here and just say oh well.

"If the Cubs win the World Series in 2007, what Hendry did in 2006 will be nothing but a faded memory. If the Cubs suck again in 2007, I'll jump on the bandwagon with you."

Yes, if they win the WS, I will admit I was wrong about Hendry and be giving him his kudos along with everyone else. But I don't agree with saying well if he sucks next year than I will complain. Then when they don't fire him next year will you give him 2008? It is a bad endless cycle that needs to be stopped.

Thanks for the civil conversation though and I will remember this conversation for next year...Have a safe holidays LOU...

I said if the Cubs did not make the playoffs he and Baker should be let go.

You're going back to this lie again, Manny?

I believe you said that Hendry should be let go, and a new GM should have the option of bringing back Baker if he wanted. You also stated that you had not lost confience in Dusty and would have no problem bringing him back for 2007.

That's a long way from saying that Dusty "should be let go" or even that Hendry should actually have been tied at the hip.

I guess its understandable then that you have to use your lame "teflon jim" saying anytime anyone suggest things are less than 100% Hendry's fault. Its also just comical that you say people don't blame Hendry enough, when you spent the last 3 years making excuses for 98% of Dusty Baker and Andy McFail's decisions.

Are you really so bitter about being proven so wrong about Dusty Baker that you have this vendetta again Jim Hendry, where you have to be as hateful towards him as you percieved others to be against Dusty? (as demonstraighted by the fact that you go to the "you didn't complain when people did it to Dusty" excuse anytime someone points out your transparent agenda)

I will say that I remember Manny saying that Dusty should be let go along with Hendry. He said this multiple times.

That may have come after earlier saying something different, but he did say that Dusty should go.

Bleeding Blue:
"I believe you said that Hendry should be let go, and a new GM should have the option of bringing back Baker if he wanted. You also stated that you had not lost confience in Dusty and would have no problem bringing him back for 2007."

Nope that is your fictional world of constant made up quotes of mine. I have said 100's of times that both Hendry and Baker should be let go if they did not make the playoffs last year. Sorry man...

Just for the record, this is from the 2006 preseason roundtable on April 2, 2006.

http://www.all-baseball.com/cubreporter/archi...

Question: Hendry and Baker, brothers in arms, men with expiring contracts. Do they get automatic extensions or will their futures be tied into this teamís successes or failures?

Mannytrillo: This is the easy, they should ABSOLUTELY be tied at the hip and should NOT be given contract extensions UNLESS they make the playoffs this year. If they don't....BYE BYE HENDRY and BAKER!!

"#177 of 195: By dave (December 14, 2006 10:36 AM)
Poor people, especially with kids, don't pay taxes. Or if they do, they pay very little.

Sorry...but I cant let Chad get away with this.

The poor very much pay taxes. They pay property taxes. They pay sales tax. They pay into social security. They pay the gas tax. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I could go on, but to assert that the poor do not pay taxes is flat out wrong."

Poor people don't own homes. Not to mention those who may, property taxes are local and they are Federally tax deductible. Social Security is not a tax. Sales tax and gas taxes are consumer taxes which people can chose to pay or not depending on how much they want to spend. There is not tax on milk, eggs, bread and such other staple items just for this reason. Poor people pay very little tax even relative to how much they earn. The majority of the tax burden falls on families that earn a combined $100,000 to $200,000 dollars a year. These are the same people that actually fuel the economy.

Manny, I know damn well you repeated your tied at the hip line many times.

However, when I asked you to clarify your position, you said that you had NOT lost confidence in Dusty Baker, and you said that while a new GM should not be required to bring back, you also said you had No problem if a new GM decided to bring back Baker.

You can try to deny that you said it, and you can keep going back to your "tied at the hip" phrase, but they are both flat out lies.

Nope that is your fictional world of constant made up quotes of mine. I have said 100's of times that both Hendry and Baker should be let go if they did not make the playoffs last year. Sorry man...

Sorry man is right... here are your EXACT words. No Fiction, nothing made up.

A GM should be able to pick his maanger. If the new GM wanted Baker fine, but he should not be forced to take him.
Posted by: mannytrillo at August 9, 2006 03:39 PM

Saying it would be "fine" if a new GM brought back Baker is NOT the same as tied at the hip and its nowhere close to saying that Dusty should be let go.

Poor people don't own homes.

So where do they live? Renters still pay property taxes, it is just hidden in their rent.

There is not tax on milk, eggs, bread and such other staple items just for this reason.

yes there is. It is lower, but you still pay a tax.

Sales tax and gas taxes are consumer taxes which people can chose to pay or not

Not really. If they want a job, they need to be able to have clothes to wear and a way to get there. Even if they are taking public transportation, they are still paying taxes on that.

Poor people pay very little tax even relative to how much they earn.

that is not what you said earlier. You said, "Poor people, especially with kids, don't pay taxes."

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