Cubs Deal Ryu to Devil Rays

Bruce Levine of ESPN1000 and Rotoworld are reporting the Cubs have sent Jae-kuk Ryu to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for prospects RHP Greg Reinhard and OF Andy Lopez (thanks to reader Bogey for the tip). That should clear off the 40-man roster spot needed to add Cliff Floyd. Ryu looks to be yet another casualty of 40-man roster mismanagement as it looks like the Cubs were forced to deal a player for roster space rather than for improvement. While Ryu may never be more than a journeyman swingman, he's got plus stuff and I sure would have hoped for a little more in return. Reinhard is a 23 year old right-handed pitcher drafted in the 5th round by the Devil Rays in 2005. He pitched in the Midwest League last year and is a combined 8-13 with a 4.29 ERA in 195.1 IP in two minor league seasons. He seems to keep the ball down with a miniscule 0.60 HR/9 rate and as expected from a Cubs pitcher, he can strike guys out with a 9.09 K/9 rate. Reader Crunch has this to say about Reinhard (Crunch knows his Drays prospects):
fastball, splitter fastball, a slider, and a changeup + curve he’s trying to figure out which is the best for him in-game. he lost some velocity last year, but he was throwing low-mid 90s before then. he had early control problems in 06 working deep innings, but shaped up a bit.
Lopez, a right-handed outfielder, was an 8th round pick in 2005 by the Devil Rays (but got 4th round bonus money) and is only 20 years old. He played his last two seasons in Rookie Ball in the Appalachian League to a tune of 282/374/455 with 10 SB in 14 attempts and 105 K's to 36 BB's in 90 games. I'm sure this will end up being a nothing move and Reinhard and Lopez will join the likes of Berg, Ciamarella, Brannon, Spears, and Perez in the hall of completely forgettable Cubs prospects that were dealt to grab warm bodies for the minors. We'll see where Ryu falls on the scale of Cubs players moved under Hendry's regime. Will he be more Jermain Van Buren or more Dontrelle Willis?
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Comments

I understand the Cubs have a supposed surplus of starting pitchers, but why trade away one of them who we don't NEED to trade for nothing top tier in terms of prospects in return? Oh well, I never thought Ryu was going to turn in to anything, so it is no big loss, but I would like to have seen us get more in return.

my response from the other thread..
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Ryu was a fringe starter at best, his future role is probably of the swingman variety.

Good changeup though, I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t stick in the majors at some point even if it’s from team to team.
---

The Cubs did NEED to move somebody for 40-man space though.

"I understand the Cubs have a supposed surplus of starting pitchers, but why trade away one of them who we don’t NEED to trade for nothing top tier in terms of prospects in return?"

time.

they're not ranked prospects, and i cant speak for lopez, but g.r. at least has some tools and isnt an injury reclamation project.

team has guzman, marshall, and to a lesser extent mateo ready to go...ryu was expendable and was probably shopped around to more than 1 team to see what package he could get.

Cubs current SP depth chart (40-man roster only)

1. Z
2. Hill
3. Lilly
4. Marquis
5. Miller
6. Prior
7. Cotts
8. Guzman
9. Marshall
10. Marmol
11. Mateo

Ryu would be in that 9, 10, 11 range

...and so closes the the Andy McPhail regime's pacific rim scouting talent pool.

Walrond & O'Malley as well if you go off the 40-man

Ryu was for the birds. I'm not sad to see him fly off. Hendry must've just had to wing it. You can always count on Manny to start squawking.

Rob G:
"The Cubs did NEED to move somebody for 40-man space though."

My point was that Ryu is not out of options like some players were the past couple of years and pretty much had to be traded.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/col...

Rotoworld's top 15 prospects for each team in the NL Central
pretty much the same as everyone else's.

C'mon, this is yet another beyond belief stupid transaction awash in the Hendry Ocean of Blunders.

Ryu was a genuine top-tier prospect. You can't continually give away pitching and get nothing.

What will happen next, Z go to arbitration?

Ryu was a genuine top-tier prospect.

you have a very loose definition of top-tier prospect....

But I'm sure we'll Ryu the day that we lost this one (rimshot)...

ryu wasnt a slam dunk of a prospect. the only reason he's even considered is, unlike a lot of kids, he already has a mostly polished changeup.

he's hittable and his fastball isnt exactly deceptive. he's a prospect as far as him being close to ready and his peers go, but he's got 3 peers ahead of him that probably wont be in the bigs (guzman, marshall, mateo).

he's not trash, but he's not in the same class of tallent as a guy like nolasco or anything...

"you have a very loose definition of top-tier prospect…"

BS. You don't know what you're talking about.

I thought Ryu took out a sea bird of some sort not a hawk.

After today teams are now 4-0 in arbitration hearings. Supposedly there are only 8 players left that have hearings scheduled. If the Cubs go to arbitration with Z, it looks pretty safe that will go to 5-0 for the teams.

1 week til Z's hearing...

it was an osprey and supposedly that's what that picture is in the post, so said my google image search

Ryu already had 3 established pitches when he was 19. Now he has 4! He has a mid 90's heater.

The Cubs paid him a $1.6 million bonus to sign.

He pitched 154 innings (total) last year with an ERA around 3.20 and 170 innings the year before.

But of course the Cubs were nuts to throw big bucks at this loser.

that would be an ERA of 3.23 in AAA for RYU.

RYU hit an Osprey with a baseball. It died 6 days later.

BS. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Probably not, but please explain the greatness of Ryu and what is a top-tier prospect. Because Ryu barely makes some top 10 Cubs prospect lists over the years (missing most of them actually) and if you expand that to all of baseball makes him a fringe prospect at best in the grand scheme of things.

I thought Ryu took out a sea bird of some sort not a hawk.
-------
The osprey is considered endangered in Indiana.
--------
Here's a link to the original story...It's amazing how some stories stick around.

Jae-kuk Ryu, a 19-year-old South Korean pitcher for the Class-A Daytona Cubs, knocked an osprey from its perch during pre-game practice Monday night, witnesses said. He could face animal cruelty charges for the incident at Jackie Robinson Ballpark. The team announced Wednesday night that it sent Ryu to Lansing of the Class-A Midwest League.

http://tinyurl.com/2o5t75

Ryu has a mid 90's heater? On what PS3 or Xbox?

yeah, I was going to say that too. I saw Ryu pitch a couple times when he was with Lansing, the gun had him at 89-91. When he was up with the Cubs last summer he was right around the same velocity.

ryu's fastball may have hit mid-90s a few times, but he works high 80s and occasionally low 90s. he's a 88-92 guy depending on how he feels these days.

if you like ryu, you should just love guzman...similar pack of tools and repertoire of pitches, but better stuff on almost all of them but the changeup and maybe curve dending on if you like ryu's curve or not.

"Ryu has a mid 90’s heater? On what PS3 or Xbox?"

Like I said, on this subject, you don't know what your'e talking about, Rob G.

CRUNCH: regarding Ryu you said, "he’s hittable" and regarding Nolasco vs Ryu you said, "he’s not in the same class of tallent as a guy like nolasco."

THE FACT IS, in their minor league careers Nolasco (5 minor league seasons) gave up more hits per nine innings pitched than Ryu (6 minor league seasons) has.

!!

minor league career totals dont tell you how they got to those numbers...just ask jason dubois.

ryu throwing a change up and hanging it is far more dangerous than nolasco hanging his "nickle curve" slider thing he throws.

ryu missing with his stuff doesnt have much leeway for mistake.

we all saw hill's killer top-notch curve, but we also know what happens to it when he throws it high-70s and hangs the sucker. those minor league hitters he can fool with that are minor league hitters because he can fool them with it.

Like I said, on this subject, you don’t know what your’e talking about, Rob G.

nanna nana boo boo...

Walrond and O'Malley both were DFAd and sent back to the minors I thought.

I don't think Ryu has consistently hit the mid-90s since around 2003. As others have said, now he throws in the high-80s to low-90s (though with better control than he did around '03).

Walrond and O’Malley both were DFAd and sent back to the minors I thought.

they have been, I was just talking about our current SP depth and Walrond & O'Malley could be called up with a corresponding 40-man roster move.

No big loss.

Would it have been nice to get a little more in return? Definitely from a fans perspective.

But I'm sure Ryu was shopped around pretty extensively. If this is what he is worth on the trade market, this is what he is worth.

CWTP.... "top-tier prospect"??? Wow.

"minor league career totals dont tell you how they got to those numbers"

This makes absolutely no sense. Ryu and Nolasco got their HITS/9 IP stats by pitching in the same Cubs farm system.
And why you would claim Ryu is "hittable" when he gives up around 8 hits per nine is unfathomable.

You guys don't like Ryu. Damn the stats. But give the nonsense a rest.

"CWTP…. “top-tier prospect”??? Wow."

You must think the Cubs regularly toss $1.6 million at 18 year olds with "88 mph" fastballs.

"This makes absolutely no sense."

makes plenty of sense to me. there's a lot of hitter/pitchers that come up through almost everyone's system every year that leave people looking at numbers and saying "why isnt he here?"

ryu is hittable because of his lack of consistant delivery and the quality (or lack of) of his pitches when they hang...they're very hittable.

go talk to a whitesox fan who doesnt know what heath phillips throws or how well he throws it...you'll find a person who's in total disbelief that he's not ranked as a top prospect based on his numbers. he's a hell of a control pitcher, but that control is his enemy as much as it is his top attribute until he gets more deceptive with his stuff.

You guys don’t like Ryu. Damn the stats. But give the nonsense a rest.

What nonsense? You are the one claiming the guy throws mid 90's. You are the one claiming the Ryu is a "top-tier prospect" when every list that gives the Cubs top prospects shows differently.

Are all of the scouts full of nonsense also? Come on...

Ryu is Korean (or Japanese, or whatever) for Todd Wellemeyer (or Jon Leicester). No loss.

Ryu is Korean (or Japanese, or whatever)

It is Korean...

"Korean or Japanese or whatever" - how wonderfully racially sensitive!

unless you're a ryu fan the main issue is there's 3 guys (4 if you wanna count marmol) who should be in AAA and ready to backup the already packed and 1-odd-man-out rotation.

for all intents and purposes ryu was expendable. i'd rather see marmol go, but whatever...as long as guzman/marshall are the backups behind z/lilly/maquis/hill/prior/miller/cotts, i feel covered.

felt covered last year, too...but injuries came, never stopped, and none of the kids or insurance stepped up to deliver a MLB-calibre performance (even miller who struggled to get past 4 innings).

this is kind of funny from wikipedia [emphasis added]:

Jae-kuk made his major league debut on May 14, 2006 in a relief appearance against the San Diego Padres. He made his first major league start on May 28, 2006 in which he threw only 28 pitches before being relieved after having allowed 6 runs in 1 1/3 innings pitched. ... He would return to the Cubs for late August and September making several bullpen appearances, faring slightly better and finishing the year with an 8.40 ERA[1].

I love the fact that he fared "slightly better" and still ended up with an 8.40 ERA. Just thought that was humerus.

umm...yea. that should be humorous, not humerus.

"I don’t think Ryu has consistently hit the mid-90s since around 2003."

If you recall (probably not), Ryu hurt his elbow in '94 and following rehab cut back on his velocity during games while adding a fourth pitch.

The result was much better control and a lot of innings pitched. In 2005 and 2006 he AVERAGED 6.1 innings per start over 50 starts.

Cub fans will forever fall into the trap that...

A. The Cub minor league system is wondrous endless reservoir of high ceiling talent.

B. That pitching quantity equals pitching quality.

Sorry, but no soup for you. Jae Ryu (the Korean) is a non-special pitcher who will either fail to make the majors completely or, at his ceiling, be a nomadic Amaury Telemaco, Todd Wellemeyer type. Whoopie. The fact that the Cubs traded him for the equivalent of a used pair of Hush Puppies is inconsequential.

The result was much better control and a lot of innings pitched.

That is fine...but he is still not a pitcher with a fastball in the mid 90's anymore, is he?

Ryu is Korean (or Japanese, or whatever)...

That's right down there with Mike North's infamous comment about Ryu.

"Who was the Chinaman on the mound the other day?"

I would rather have lost Buck Coats on a roster crunch, not Ryu.

he is still not a pitcher with a fastball in the mid 90’s anymore, is he?

Are you saying he's injured? Link?

Are you saying he’s injured? Link?

Come on...did I say that? I am saying, as you did, that he reduced his velocity. He hasn't been a pitcher with a consistent mid 90s fastball since 2003.

Cubswinthepennant...

To quote Charlie Brown's teacher, "waah wah wah wah wah wah waah."

He said that? I'm alternately offended and amused.

TB got a pitcher who can/will be MLB-replacement ready and depending on his spring and TB's need, MLB-ready.

on the cubs he'd be AAA 2nd-3rd in line tallent on a club with 6 starters already (assuming health).

it'd be nice to get more, but getting anything close to mlb-ready with pitching would not work for the cubs. they got a guy with similar upside (though not throwing the same stuff) as ryu and a 19 year old free-swinging OF'r who can also take a walk (adam dunn approves).

cubs traded "down" an arm for an arm with upside and got a token OF'r for the low-system who looks to be high-A bound.

the cubs traded for time and upside on their return...they had the "capital" to spend given ryu isnt even the top of the pecking order for minors-to-bigs until guzman/marshall screw up.

"I would rather have lost Buck Coats on a roster crunch, not Ryu."

buck is f'n useless...IMO...

i could care less that he owns a SS glove, he's not good there...and he can only hit fastballs. he cant even make good contact on a low slider well...he can look pretty foolish facing a polished pitcher.

Are all of the scouts full of nonsense also?

I guess the Cubs hand out $1.6 million dollar bonuses without consulting anyone.

I guess the Cubs hand out $1.6 million dollar bonuses without consulting anyone.

Come on...I know that you are smarter that that.

Are you saying that every prospect who receives bug signing bonuses remains a top prospect?

There is no question that people thought highly of Ryu when he was originally signed. But look through top prospect reports. You are lucky if you find Ryu.

and yes...this is typo day. that would be big signing bonuses, not "bug" signing bonuses.

I guess the Cubs hand out $1.6 million dollar bonuses without consulting anyone.

Does that mean Brownlie and Montanez are stipp top prospects? Because they pulled in big signing bonuses?

er.. still.

cubswinthepennant — February 13, 2007 @ 3:29 pm

“CWTP…. “top-tier prospect”??? Wow.”

You must think the Cubs regularly toss $1.6 million at 18 year olds with “88 mph” fastballs.
----------------------------

What does a signing bonus in 2001 have to do with whether a player should be considered a "top-tier prospect" heading into the 2007 season?

You think he's pissed now, wait till we trade Z in July. That guy throws almost 110 mph.

Per Mike North, only in Chicago or Philly could he still be on the air. And they might name a high school after this guy! Or to quote an American hero, "the Chinaman is not the issue here, Dude."

Who else hopes Z keeps up the Rickey Henderson impression?

Transmission hopes that Z keeps up the Ricky impression. Transmission likes it.

yawn.

CWTP:
"The result was much better control..."

Well, with a WHIP of 1.95 last year with the big league team, I wouldn't be too sure of this.

Yeah he did o.k. in the previous two years in AAA and AA, but truly he had a chance to shine and show a flash of brilliance.

The light blew.

We have many prospects as good or better that are, or should be, higher on the ladder than young Ryu.

dave:

Did you mean "humeris" ? ;->

A bit off-topic, but when are we going to get another one of those organizational depth chart thingies?

I love those.

It's been said before, but it really bugs me how Hendry repeatedly gets himself into these 40 man roster jams, where we are forced to make deals to get under the limit. It's maddening and mind boggling. Even if Ryu wasn't going to be an ace, he still had value equal to $XXX, yet Hendry traded him for [$XXX minus $YYY] (where $YYY = poor planning).

This just in from REUTERS,

NEW YORK (Reuters) - South Korean hurler Jae Kuk Ryu will compete for a spot in the starting rotation with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays after the American League club acquired the right-hander Tuesday in a trade with the Chicago Cubs.

"We had a couple of different guys see him and they liked him," Rays executive vice president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman said in a statement on the team's Web site."

Apparently the DRays scouts don't read TCR or they never would have made this trade.

And what's this, the DRays are giving Ryu a shot at the starting rotation? Will blunders never cease?!

D-Rays starting rotation != Cubs starting rotation

cwtp...i dont recall anyone calling ryu trash, nor anything suprising about the DRays probably offering him a shot.

so would KC...so would a lotta teams with no real 4 or 5 starter...

i have seen a lot about ryu being expendable given depth and his "stuff" not being very exciting compared to other logjams he'd have to go through to get to the bigs...specifically guzman and marshall. that's before anyone even considers miller/prior/cotts, too.

Apparently the DRays scouts don’t read TCR or they never would have made this trade.

And what is th DRays payroll? I am not sure I would base your argument on what Tampa is doing...

There is no question that Ryu could be a decent major league pitcher. No one is disagreeing with that. But I don't think there are many people who would agree with you that he is a "top tier" prospect.

Decent major league pitcher (i.e. competing for a starting spot on one of the worst teams in baseball) and being a top tier prospect are two very different things.

Did Drays hire an ex-Cub guy recently in their scouting dept?

they've signed Brendan Harris, Choi and now traded for Ryu this off-season

oh yeah, no-brainer trade for the Drays that's for sure....

CUBSWINTHEPENNANT: IT SAYS, "...will COMPETE for a spot..."

You said, "the DRays are giving Ryu a shot at the starting rotation..."

They are not GIVING him anything!

This guarantees nothing and he could compete with 30 other guys.

And, "Ryu's Biggest Fan", have you seen the Rays staff? Scott Kazmir was the horse last year with a 10-8 record. 144 IP

The next best guy? 130 IP and a 5.33 era

OF COURSE they're going to give him a CHANCE to compete!!

The Cubs had injuries. The Drays just out and out SUCK!

Geez!

The Tampa Devil Rays give the word incompetence a bad name. That organization is so incredibly mis-managed that its laughable. The new owner (Sternberg?) is just as clueless as the old (Namoili). And Andrew Friedman is making Chuck LaMar look like Walt Jocketty, which is saying a lot. Here it is the D-Rays are baseball's most wretched franchise and they can't seem to swing a trade of excess outfield talent for pitching?!? Scott Kazmir is their ONLY pitcher of consequence. If the Korean gets lit up like a Christmas tree during spring training he STILL stands shot at being their number two starter.

Let Friedman and his statistical sheets have Jae Ryu. Now lets move on to more important subject matter.

Andrew Friedman is the same woefully underqualified idiot that made Hee Friggin Seop Choi one of his major offseason acquisitions. The same Choi who can't hit a breaking ball with a paddle and has been dumped by the Cubs, Marlins, Dodgers and Red Sox. Good luck with that Andrew. God how I hate the introduction of pimply faced Harvard graduates and their spreadsheet models into baseball.

Chad?

if anyone is keeping track though, Iwamura was there major addition this offseason. Choi's on a minor league deal with an NRI, it is a 2 yr deal though if he makes the majors

Lets see if Iwamura is any good. Something tells me he's a So Taguchi type. The Devil Rays notoriously overrate their own talent and hold out for a package of the second coming of Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and Mariano Rivera in trades to the point of ridiculous. Shit or get off the pot. Get a clue. Pitching is king in baseball. That team is a lead pipe cinch to lose 105 games or more in 2007. If I am MLB, I see about revoking their franchise from the face of the earth.

Eric liked Jae. Eric will miss Jae. Eric thinks Silent Towel should focus more on the Silent, less on the Towel. Eric also likes Carlos Zambrano's new Rickey impression.

Ryu is a non-issue for the Cubs, but it doesn't change the fact that Hendry does not get fair value in many of his deals. Someone feeds Hendry awfully poor intel regarding the market for his minor league players. And then, the whole 40-man roster mismanagement, that is just inexcusable. Ryu this year, Van Buren last, why is it so damn hard for Hendry to get a reasonable counter-prospect back for these types of guys, instead of essentially giving them away for nothing?

By the way, if Hendry thought Ryu was so expendable all along, why didn't he just leave him off the roster this fall and protect Campusano instead? Or Holdzkom? Answer==because Hendry never thinks ten minutes ahead.

Hendry is a lousy GM, period.

Rob,

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Someone feeds Hendry awfully poor intel regarding the market for his minor league players.

I love the fact that certain commenters on a blog think that they know more about the fair market value of Cubs minor league pitchers than Jim Hendry.

Do you really not think that he shopped these guys around? Do you really not think that he got the best he could for them?

By the way...what is Van Buren doing these days?

JVB is with the Nats, probably one of the 8,000 minor league signings they made this offseason

ME: By the way…what is Van Buren doing these days?

Rob: JVB is with the Nats

Yea...I was being sarcastic, being that people were complaining about losing Van Buren and then he couldn't hack it with the Red Sox.

No big loss there...

But I thought JVB was the next Eric Gagne! Remember the outrage when he was dumped?

Remember the outrage when he was dumped?

Exactly my point.

It is kind of fun when Chad and I actually agree...

Sisco was suppose to be a steal for Royals too.

"Who else hopes Z keeps up the Rickey Henderson impression"

I hope he takes it a step further and puts lipstick on his hand ala Senor Wences and starts having conversations with his hand will being interviewed.

Z could say " Carlos Zambrano wants to stay, but my little friend here does not."

And then the hand says" We want 18 million a year over 8 years!!!"

NEW YORK (Reuters) - South Korean hurler Jae Kuk Ryu will compete for a spot in the starting rotation with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays after the American League club acquired the right-hander Tuesday in a trade with the Chicago Cubs.
______

I believe the phrasing goes something like this:

"That and a dollar will you a Sunday paper."

Pretty sure you could challenge for a rotation spot with the DRays, CWTP. Kazmir and then who?

I liked the kid. Very solid mechanically in the couple of times I saw him in person. Decent velocity on cheese and a plus change. I wasn't ever in love with his breaking stuff, though. It was average or so, but you won't ever be a big league ace with one plus pitch.

buy...you.. a sunday paper...

dammit

You left out the "Sorry. S'allright"

That would crack my shit up every time.

We have a saying in the production world: "garbage in - garbage out."

I am purely guessing, but I would think that MOST GM's 40-man cast-offs end up doing jack afterwards. To criticize JH for this, when he probably is in the 95%-tile on this is just not fair.

I don't mind hacking him when deserved (and I have done my share of hacking including calling him a MORON for letting ARam go-when he signed him), but when it comes to the cast off of players-really-going-nowhere, it truly is not as big of a deal to me. Bigger fish to fry.

It just is funny that when the majority of the blog points out the absurdity of CWTP's statements and attachment to "Ryu Are Gone", he goes into the shell.

"Close dee door"

people were crying about the do-nothing gained in the farnsworth deal...a washed up former 1st round pick and a guy with the control issues farns had...s.moore and novoa.

now s.moore looks like a steal, though i think the people who envision him as a starter might be disappointed until he really starts to show some high-end power and/or has an aram-like turnaround playing D at 3rd. funny thing is if he does either of these things, he'd be better served as trade bait cuz of his value.

its no fun that ryu got traded for a couple guys that have little to no chance of paying off for the big league team for another 2-4 years, if ever, but at least the kids got upside and didn't put a hole in depth on any level.

wish they'd find a way to get rid of marmol and novoa next...

Well, that was an amusing 98 posts to read.

er, 94

If I'm upset about anything about this deal, it's that what we got in return is room for Cliff Floyd.

Greg Reinhardt had a 4.50 ERA and a 1.38 WHIP at Hi-A SW Michigan last year. Although, the .51 HR/9 at the 8.49 K/9 ain't too shabby, I suppose.

Andy Lopez is still really young (just turned 20), and might turn out to something if you're a fan of blind optimism. His numbers aren't THAT bad, I guess. Strikes out a lot.

or crunch beat me to it

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2007/2/1...

a bit on Sean Gallagher, didn't realize he was considered a 3rd round talent...

"....He was considered a third round talent, but most teams thought he would go to college."

Scouts praise his intelligence, work ethic, and pitching savvy.

JH isnt known for the sure-thing trades as much as he's known for value trades. he's looking for that diamond in the rough, not the top-man trade.

even getting a mid/low "top 10" prospect out of an organization doesnt mean its a big deal. hendry deals a lot with guys who dont even rank in systems (ceda, reinhard, murton, etc) and/or former guys who were once hot stuff who havent translated properly yet (s.moore, r.lewis, etc).

hendry seems to be more interested in getting lower-rung guys with high upside and rolling the dice rather than coughing up big talent for highly ranked tallent.

if anything, he's relying more on his scouts to point out these under-the-radar guys very few people are following.

oh yeah...and his "reclaimation" projects of castoffs that teams dont wanna pay for and are willing to dump on the cheap...

karros, clement, aram, etc...

the only player for high-end prospect trades worth mentioning i can recall are the nomar and pierre trades.

florida's paid themselves off best so far with 1 for-high-end and 1 for-low/mid-end gamble trades...to date, though early, the low/mid-end trade has paid off the best.

Seriously? This much commotion over losing Ryu? CWTP, if you have your panties in a twist over this, really, take a step back and take a deep breath. The guy's a dime a dozen, and given the glut of AAAA pitching in the Cubs system, it makes sense to trade down and get some different, younger parts.

If you to ESPN's MLB page and check out the videos on the right, they have an interview with Samardzija

the only thing of note imo was that the Cubs were fine with him playing football and baseball if he wanted to try it....

CRUNCH:

Is this the "throw it against the wall..." GM management style?

"throwing it against the wall" would involve putting no thought into the talent recieved...its a little more involved than that i hope.

well, i guess its open for interpretation to what "throwing against the wall" is...

unless you're getting a real high-end guy who's shown he's more than or at least what he's supposed to project...its all a gamble after you get through the first 1-2-3 best pitchers in anyone's organization, be they ranked #6 or #16 on their prospect list.

even guys well into the game can get shuffled around for millions of bucks...guys like k.benson, etc.

sigh...damn fast typing and slow brain...continuing...

"even guys well into the game can get shuffled around for millions of bucks…guys like k.benson, etc. who still havent lived up to their full potential."

dave said in #82:

"Do you really not think that he shopped these guys around? Do you really not think that he got the best he could for them?"

Dave, if this was an isolated incident we could let it go, but it's not. This is a familiar routine for Hendry, being forced to dump a guy because of 40 man roster mismanagement. The timing of this trade (and others like it) is proof in itself of the blunder, because Hendry's leverage is at its low point the day before a move must be made.

I don't mind him trading Ryu; I don't think he will be an ML star. It's the timing of the deal that's the problem. Little mistakes like this one eventually add up.

I'm in the last group in defending Hendry, but yes I agree with Dave that Ryu was almost assuredly shopped for the past 2-3 weeks. Reinhard and Lopez were Wilkins' signees which is probably the best explanation for why the Ryu deal was with the DRays. Newsflash -- other MLB teams are almost as fluent with the Cubs top 30-50 prospects as the Cubs and many serious fans are. It's called 'current market value' and Ryu had very little going into this trade. He was not going to make the rotation or bullpen and might not have even made the Iowa starting rotation. Hendry could have optioned him again, but in a nice guy move he gives Ryu a chance to make someone's MLB 25 man roster.

Indeed, Jimbo has bigger fish to fry:

1) Sign Zambrano before opening day -- it's $18MM and probably 6-7 years.

2) Trade some of this excess AAA pitchers and bullpen for middle infield and outfield depth.

George I disagree almost completely with what you've got to say.

First, unless these D-Rays prospects have something that I'm not aware of... like Reinhold being left handed or something... then it appears that we gave up a starting pitcher similar in value to a Sean Marshall. IMO Angel Guzman is the most qualified AAA starter to get a promotion should the need arise closely followed by either Marshall or Ryu. These guys we just got better be worth something because this 40 man roster had players on it that I certainly wouldn't mind dropping. Rocky Cherry and Geovany Sota don't even deserve 40man recognition. And Buck Coats might not be worthy as well. So the Cubs weren't in a "must trade" Jae Kuk Ryu situation. They must actually think that the guys we got in exchange are actually worthy of Ryu. GMs don't draft and groom minor league talent just to give them away in a "good guy" type move even if there isn't room on the major league roster at the time. Remember, this is a team that consistantly has had starting pitchers go down and had to rely on minor leaguers just to get through the season. You need to re-evaluate your thoughts. Personally, I'm not saying this is a bad trade yet because I'd like to learn a little more about the guys we got from the Rays. Perhaps there is something special that we got that isn't readily observable just looking at stats.

So Sayeth the God of WAR!

So Sayeth the God of WAR!

Whatever that means, it's starting to annoy me.

Altman
2) Trade some of this excess AAA pitchers and bullpen for middle infield and outfield depth.

Some of the excess AAA pitching just got traded. Don't you think Ryu should have been packaged with another AAA starter for something a bit more useful?

I did forget about the Wilkin angle, that makes me think we got something a bit more interesting than it actually appears at the moment...

Rocky Cherry and Geovany Sota don’t even deserve 40man recognition.
If Rocky Cherry wasn't on the 40-man, he'd been plucked in the Rule V. Are there any teams that have less than 3 catchers on their 40-man? Yeah, I'm in agreement that Coats shuld have been cut loose but the Cubs are a bit lacking in position player depth on the 40-man or so it seems. It's like 23 pitchers right now I believe....

"I don’t think he will be an ML star."

Ya THINK?

Jae Ryu sends his thanks to all of you for giving him his 15 minutes of fame. 113 posts devoted to a pitcher who will be working for a living in the appliance department of the local Sears within 2 years.

Per Rob G's comment: Cubs current SP depth chart (40-man roster only)

1. Z 2. Hill 3. Lilly 4. Marquis 5. Miller 6. Prior 7. Cotts 8. Guzman 9. Marshall 10. Marmol 11. Mateo

*Great - Let's trade 3 of these guys for the likes of Rocco Baldelli. Toss in one of our 8 set up guys and we may have a deal.

The real point I was trying to make was I don't see any evidence that Ryu has the trade value a lot of you posting believe he has. Hendry, with Wilkins input, was obviously convinced the upside of Lopez and Reinhard exceeded Ryu's ceiling. I am no fan of Coats, Soto, or whoever else we feel shouldn't be on the 40 man. However, I remember reviewing AZ Phil's list of eligibles before the Rule V draft, and I didn't see any glaring omissions including Holdzkom (ranked by BA something like 16 or 18th in a bad Astros farm system).

I'm all for trading any prospects who give the Cubs a better chance of making the World Series this year. Who we all think has trade value from the Cubs isn't always shared by the other GM's.

Last, Temphus -- I saw Guzman in person in 2003 Spring Training......maybe AZ Phil saw him that year as well. I thought he was the best looking young pitcher I'd seen in 25 years. A lot of scouts did also ranking his fastball a 60, curve a 70, change a 60, and command a 70. I'd give anything to see that pitcher again in Cubs pinstripes on the Wrigley Field pitchers mound.

|cubswinthepennant says:

February 13th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

Are all of the scouts full of nonsense also?

I guess the Cubs hand out $1.6 million dollar bonuses without consulting anyone. |

CWTP still trying to figure out how Earl Cunningham isn't in the Hall of Fame, or for that matter, Hesoppedchoy.

433
|This is a familiar routine for Hendry, being forced to dump a guy because of 40 man roster mismanagement. |

Man, was Hendry chagrineed when Van Buren and Leciester were named the starters for the All-Star game last year.

Geogre Bell and Johan Santana are cases of 40 man roster mis-management. You all need to calm down about the Ryu's and Wellmeyers of the world.

George, now you're making a lot more sense to me. Yes, it was sort of a "good guy" move to give Ryu a chance at the majors this year, but that was secondary to it being a "lets get these two minor leaguers from the DRays" move.

Although Rob would point out that most every team protects 3 catchers on the 40man, I would argue that we've got a pretty solid 1/2 punch with double B's, Barrett and Blanco. IMO the third catcher has to be somebody either more talented than everyone else not on the 40man, or a guy that the Cubs are afraid could get claimed by another team if he wasn't on there. Perhaps I'm wrong, but Geovany Soto doesn't really fit either of those bills. Rocky Cherry probably would be picked up by another team, but I'm not sure if his talent is worthy of a spot. Buck Coats is IMO sort of a AAAA player who does serve a purpose as being another CF replacement if we find out that Soriano can't play CF, Jacque Jones can't do it adequately, and Pie isn't ready yet with the bat.

So unlike others here who think Jae K Ryu is pretty much garbage (yes I've ready your posts and for being a silent towel you post alot), I think that Ryu will break onto the Jays roster and add production this season. In this trade we've lost an MLB ready pitcher in Ryu (perhaps not a future ace or anything). Like I said before, I won't be for or against the trade until we find out a little bit more about the two guys we got in return.

And finally, I agree with you about Angel Guzman. Unfortunately, I just haven't seen the same kind of "stuff" from him since the injury. I think he can be an effective MLB pitcher, but he's not quite as amazing as pre-injury. What do you think?

So Sayeth the God of WAR!

gah all kinds of spelling errors in that last post. Too bad we can't edit here :P

I would argue that we’ve got a pretty solid 1/2 punch with double B’s, Barrett and Blanco. IMO the third catcher has to be somebody either more talented than everyone else not on the 40man, or a guy that the Cubs are afraid could get claimed by another team if he wasn’t on there.

They're a fine 1-2 punch and Soto will hopefully not play all year, but just in case one of them goes down, you need someone on the 40-man to be able to call up quickly. Every baseball team does it and Soto's the most major-league ready of our minor league catching crew.

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