Gameday Open Thread / Royals @ Cubs

I'm officially bored of spring training....let the games begin!!!! Rich Hill versus fellow lefty Jorge de la Rosa today at Hohokam Park. The Kerry Wood news from Will Carroll doesn't sound too bad, far less damning than Mr. Wittenmeyer's speculation that Wood will be fortunate to be back by June.
It's bad, in that any setback is bad, especially to a shoulder we already know is both fragile and damaged. What's not so bad is that sources tell me that pain is not in the back of the shoulder, but rather nearer the triceps where Wood has already had problems this spring. After seeing Wood's last outing, it's hard to see any mechanical difference--he's still stepping across his body, and it still looks like scapular dyskinesis could be an issue beyond the triceps and damaged cuff. It's still unclear how long this will sideline Wood, but Opening Day is out for sure. Whether he makes it back and can hold up as a reliever remains to be seen.
Hey, don't we have a doctor in the house? Time for Cubster to chime in... UPDATE: Piniella says the news on Wood is "encouraging." From Sullivan's article:
"A lot of the soreness and pain is gone," Piniella said. "We'll continue to evaluate him over the next few days. Whatever he can do, we'll allow 'em to do."
Wood was evaluated by a team physician Monday. The Cubs are referring to Wood's injury as "shoulder fatigue" and he's being treated with anti-inflammatories. He'll be evaluated "day-to-day."


top of Wittenmeyer's article...

Righty's future getting dicey with recurring woes

holy news flash, batman!!! We were all under the impression that everything would be just fine with Wood from here on out.

I'm guessing Wood's regiment from here-
No throwing until April 9
His friend the towel appears April 10
Throws off the mound April 14
Throw simulated game April 28
Pitches minor league some time in May forgot few things...

pitches great in minors in may.

makes season debut in the majors late may.

hits the 60 day dl in early june.

is this game on anywhere?

There should be an audio broadcast...but it isn't working. No TV, though.


That goes without saying.


anyone else having trouble with gameday audio?

Gameday audio is giving me problems, too.

woo...2 out RBI's and leadoff walks. Baseball the way it should be...

Senate hearing on the EI deal was today....

quote from the antitrust lawyer...
Although the conduct is arguably illegal under the antitrust laws, a number of obstacles render litigation inadequate to protect consumers

have hearings...end result...nothing changes.

suprised john kerry actually still cares. he is THE man for cable interests in washington and it seems he cant get some of his peers that get their payoffs from cable companies there with him.

this seems more of a fact-finding mission than anything.

the opening statement by kerry points to a dog/pony show rather than mediation to put mlb/indemand/DTV on the same page.

big inning, bottom second, six runs, home run ramirez, triple pagan, doubles murton and lee

five runs in second, six total

woo offense...5 more runs in the 2nd, lots of XBH's

wasnt de la rosa (KC's starter) the guy that took adam greenberg out?

This sounds terrible, but I am actually hoping Wood needs TJS just to end it all and move on.

yeah dog and pony show is pretty much my assessment as well....

Nice show for the fans though....

Also, the Cubs release the 21st pick of the 2002 draft, Bobby Brownlie.

de los Santos

gameday audios back

howd we score today ?


some more Piniella quotes that caught Nate Silver's attention, specifically on Pie, pitch counts and one-run strategies. I know I mentioned the bunting one before.

jacos, you forgot "throwing off flat ground" and "long toss"

update on Wood in the post

and don't forget clubhouse training... err... whirlpool entrance and exit strategies 101...

E.Brown 2-run homer, 6-3, middle fourth.

Odd stat, probably bogus, but Yahoo! Sports has R. Hill with 20 pitches in four innings, all strikes. 16 batters. It's just theoretically possible, even with 2 K's, if every batter but one hit (except the K's) hit the first ball. There was one GIDP.

But I suppose it's bogus.

re:#20, thnx.


I apologize I left those out, putting that together was like the new gas grill I assembled this weekend.

It shot out two foot high flames and incinerated my "No name" steaks.

I'm just not very good with details I guess.

hi Rob and TCR gang...just getting out of the OR. I'll read up on the newest links giving whatever details there are on KW and give my thoughts on the current situation. As of this morning all I read was his shoulder was sore (not very useful to comment on) and KW was very crabby to the press which is understandable since it sucks to not be healthy enough to do ones job.

Wood’s injury as “shoulder fatigue” --

Isn't that what the Cubs classified it as in 2005? Or was it 2006?

shoulder fatigue is a symptom, not a diagnosis

as per normal, just email me with a story if you feel it's worthy cubster.

and cubster, if you could please answer for me how antibiotics would help the situation?

Shoulder fatigue -- and they're treating it with antibiotics? Wha?

Wood was evaluated by a team physician Monday. The Cubs are referring to Wood’s injury as “shoulder fatigue” and he’s being treated with antibiotics. He’ll be evaluated “day-to-day.”
I suspect it's anti-inflammatory medication, if they are using antibiotics it means they think he has in infection somewhere.

He may be having shoulder fatigue, which translates into dead arm syndrome (assuming his rotator cuff isn't the source of the symptoms), which is common to pitchers in spring training or when gearing up from a shoulder problem. If that's the case he just needs to "work" through it without much down time. Extended spring training here he comes...If it's his rotator cuff or he's getting impingement to the cuff, then it's deja vu all over again.

Anti-inflammatory meds ie. Non-steroidals like Motrin/Ibuprophen, Naprosyn, Celebrex, Mobic,'s a long list but they all work in similar fashion. They inhibit prostaglandin synthesis which is a byproduct of inflammatory reaction. Usually they take about 10 days to start effectively controlling inflammation. Corticosteroids are also anti-inflammatory but they have more side effects. Sometimes they will use a medrol dosepak for 6 days which works quicker while they wait for the non-steroidal med to kick in.

"Sometimes they will use a medrol dosepak for 6 days"


ugh...what happen to the game?

Aramis opened the flood gates with an error and Wuertz didn't bring the sandbags.....

good news is 0 BB's, 4 K's for Hill in 4.2 IP and it appears a strike 'em out, throw 'em out DP by Hill/Barrett/Izturis.

Again, the statistical oddity (acc. to Yahoo) for Hill today, 29 pitches, 29 strikes--but 8 hits.

“Sometimes they will use a medrol dosepak for 6 days”


Crunchie--nicely done....laughed my ass there.

Cubster--do they have 'roids focusing only on the testicles???? Me thinks Mssrs. Wood and Prior could use a dose or two of THAT!!!! everyone throwing everything down the middle of the plate today?

control is doing with the ball what you want it to do...not unnecessarily throwing strikes. looks like they're serving it up for anyone who wants to guess where to swing.

From what I've read so far only Wil Carroll had any useful info which was...

"What's not so bad is that sources tell me that pain is not in the back of the shoulder, but rather nearer the triceps where Wood has already had problems this spring"

So we have a location but not much else to go on...everything else seems to be too speculative to say much else.

The triceps muscle can be strained (muscle injury) but that's usually in the posterior aspect of the arm. The tendon of the triceps usually gets injured where it inserts near the elbow (it can rupture near the elbow, I believe Frank Thomas had that injury) but it does have tendon attachements at some of it's sites of origin on the upper arm and shoulder blade near the socket. The triceps does have an insertion at the bottom of the glenoid (shoulder socket) but it usually doesn't tear at this site or affect the glenoid labrum, which was what KW had repaired in Cincy.

Given his history of injury, I'd be surprised if they don't at least do an MRI just to take a look at the anatomy.

scroll down 5 pictures to see where the triceps has an insertion just below the shoulder glenoid (at about 6 O'Clock)

Corticosteroids are not Anabolic steroids...

Overdoing the corticosteroids just make you fat...and not inflamed.

Sullivan changed his article to say anti-inflammatories fwiw....

Article does mention that Wood may throw on the side, although no timetable on when that would happen.

yeah cubster, im on some now...prednisone

just making jokes...

when did david riske go to the royals? part of the sisco deal?

Murton gets back on track with a 3/5 day...D-Lee dips below .500 though.

Dumpster in for the save..

Dempster Blows the save
Gets the first out then meltsdown. Nice error in RF by Theriot.

10-10 Bottom of 9th.

This is after the Cubs had a textbook "Manufacture a run in Late Innings" affair.

I can't wait for the real season to start.

Riske signed by KC this offseason as a free agent.

thnx on the riske info...

so did dumpster blow it or did theriot's error blow it?

Kerry Wood's "day-to-day?" We're all day-to day...

Dumpster sucked but was not helped when he, a. let a runner take 2nd while paying no attention (he scored) b. Theriot's bobble caused a runner to take another base (and he also scored, but we would have gotten out of the inning with only one run, instead of 2)

What could kill this team is the preponderance to giving 4 and 5 outs an inning.

It is hard enough for our relievers to get outs, let alone extra help from the position players.

FYI - Wuertz gave up back to back jacks - and was BRUTAL.

Kerry Wood's right arm is screwed up. Has been for a very long time. It is doubtful he contributes much of anything in 2007. More Tribune Company money down a rat hole. Maybe Wood has a future in the broadcast booth.

Rich Hill has me worried. If he isn't up to the task of being a reliable starting pitcher, then the Cubs have big problems. It's starting to look like this rotation is going to be the achilles heel once more. And I'm not that wild about the bullpen, either.

jacos — March 27, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
.... putting that together was like the new gas grill I assembled this weekend.

It shot out two foot high flames and incinerated my “No name” steaks. ...


Now that's a FIRE! Just roll him around a little bit, he'll be all right....

I'll go out on a limb and say that if Theriot is in RF, late in a close game that Piniella did a poor job managing that day. It seems today he got the start instead of Jones though to get him some work.

And lets not forget the defense. Lousy outfield, Barrett behind the plate, and an "offensive first" versus a "defensive first" bench (Henry Blanco notwithstanding).

I said it yesterday. Ryan Theriot can apparently hit and be a sparkplug. But he is a definite liability in the field.

Counting on Jason Marquis to be a reliable starter and Ryan Dumpster to be a reliable closer...hmmm...wonder how THAT strategy will work out.

"Nice error in RF by Theriot."

So doesn't look like the dressing down yesterday helped much.

Theriot has never been a liability in the field, especially at 2nd (and even SS).

The outfield may be a different issue.

So doesn’t look like the dressing down yesterday helped much.

He didn't get "dressed down" because he made errors yesterday. He got "dressed down" because he made a poor decision by not taking the easy out.

That has little to do with his error today.

"More Tribune Company money down a rat hole."


Ronnie Cedeno with the HR to win for the Cubs!

"Ronnie Cedeno with the HR to win for the Cubs!"


I'm listening from the KC Sports Station feed. Murton Just Walked.

Are you saying what you're listening to is three-four minutes AHEAD?


Right you Are, REAL NEAL!

3 Run HR

That is really wierd!

what a messy and unspectacular 2 days of or no win, its been ugly.

"Rich Hill has me worried. If he isn’t up to the task of being a reliable starting pitcher, then the Cubs have big problems."

Patience, Jedi.

At LEAST give the season 60 days and see what trends develop.

Again, I truly take ST with a grain of salt.

There will be many games when the team will just have to outslug the opposition.

The Good
3 runs, 2 BB's for Izturis
3/5 for Murton
2/3 for Ramirez with a 2b and a HR
Cedeno walk-off homer

The Bad
b2b jacks off Wuertz including 2 of Hill's inherited runners
Dumpster with a blown save (but hey no walks)
Apparently 2 shoddy defensive plays to extend innings

7 walks today for us...only 2 given up

4 impressive Cubs team stats

(as of yesterday)
9th in team walks
4th in SB with 26...only caught 3 times
5th in home runs
4th in OBP

I am a fervent believer that pitching is king in baseball. And yes, I am worried about the Cub rotation. Carlos Zambrano and Ted Lilly will be fine. But Rich Hill is still an unknown commodity in my eyes. Wade Miller should be okay, but what about Jason Marquis?!? The bullpen is being vastly overrated, Kerry Wood or no Kerry Wood. Ryan Dumpster sucks. There, I said it. Bob Howry is the only piece I feel strongly confident about.

Very few teams are able to out-slug to victory over the course of a 162 game season. You need pitching. It doesn't have to be dominant, blow your doors off pitching if you can hit, but it still has to be good pitching. And I fear the Cubs don't have it.

and if I read this right, best team ERA (as of yesterday) of all Cactus League teams

Payton out for a few weeks (day old news I know), down to Stern, Dubois or Bynum for the final spot on the roster. O's are going with 13 pitchers though according to rotoworld.

Harang then Arroyo in the opening series, no official word on the 3rd starter.

"The bullpen is being vastly overrated..."

By whom? Certainly, its not the best in MLB, but looking at the rest of the bullpens (not just closers) the Cubs would have to be in the top 3rd in the NL. If you were to factor in the pitchers pitching to their career numbers, it would be interesting to see where the team stands.

And this might be a job for the Real Neal.

Looks like Tribune is close to being sold and speculation that cubs will be sold as well after the transaction.

Who knows what will happen, but in this piece Zell says he wants to keep the company in tact and has a plan to make it a private company.

reading up a bit on it, Zell has an ownership stake in the Wsox, so either he sells that or the Cubs. And apparently he said he's keep some retail store chain in tact when he bought it and then sold it piece by piece.

This all feels like the 4th game of the nfl preseason. can't we just start the season already?

thankfully...or not depending on how you feel about it...buying/selling a mlb team isnt just a matter of putting it on the market.

that said...i just hope the team is sold ASAP if zell takes over.

i like the tribune as owners...i love how hands-off they are with the team. whatever...just no putting the money in reverse or getting some jackass who just wants to put his non-baseball hands all over the product (aka, no shipbuilders).

Chad, nice comment in #78. You are dead on about that. It's kind of like that nervous energy you have right before a big party you are throwing, or before giving a big speech or presentation. It's about to begin, and oh crap! What about the projector, is it working right??!! Are there enough chairs??!?! Who has the music!!!?!?!?!?!

Then it starts, and there is peace. For about 5 minutes.

Why are cotts and wuertz coming north? They stink. We've seen Wuertz's act the last 2 years, he hasn't shown much. Yeah he's got a good slider, but he walks too many guys and today he gave up 2 more gopher balls. Cotts hasn't looked good at all.

Silent Towel:

I am a fervent believer that pitching is king in baseball. And yes, I am worried about the Cub rotation. Carlos Zambrano and Ted Lilly will be fine. But Rich Hill is still an unknown commodity in my eyes. Wade Miller should be okay, but what about Jason Marquis?!? The bullpen is being vastly overrated...

I agree... sort of. During the long grind of a season, pitching wins. That's why, when the Cubbies had all that money burning a hole in their pocket this off season, I was hoping they'd go after Schmidt, as over-priced as he was and find a more defensive-centric CFer, since they seem to be cheaper than offensive-centric outfielders anyways.

But part of me wondered if the Cub's didn't get another starter, because if they did, it would be a damning admission that they didn't even have half the makings of a MLB starting staff in '06. So instead of putting together a pitching-defense team, they built an offense team.

In any case, I agree with you in that pitching is "king" as you put it, but I do have to disagree on your assessment of the bullpen. I think the Cub's bullpen is badass and Dempster & Cotts are not going to get the credit they deserve until they start pitching outside of Arizona. I also think (and I may be alone on this one) that Marquis has looked fantastic this spring.

Yeah Crunch, who wants another "ship builder" as owner. After all, the Yankees have only won 6 World Series Championships with George Steinbrenner as the owner.

Sam Zell is a private equity wheel dealer. If he does indeed buy the Tribune Company, then you can bet the ranch he will bring a new management team and do everything to maximize the value of the individual business units to in turn spin each off (eventually) to the highest bidder. It's too early to say what shall be the impact to the strategic direction of the Cubs. Though I will venture to guess Zell won't hold onto the Cubs for very long.

Has anyone been reading the boxscores of the rest of MLB? There's plenty of pitchers who have done what Hill, Wuertz and others did today. If you use career numbers our staff isn't that bad. Let's wait 60 days and see where we are before we start saying Wuertz and Dempster stink.

Your comment about steroids for testicles in the case of Wood is way out of line. No one can question his effort or guts. He's got an arm that might never be healthy, but it isn't becasue he needs steroids for his b****.

The bullpen worries me. A lot. Outside of Bob Howry, there isn't a single other member I feel truly good about. Ryan Dumpster sucks. But so long as he is the clubhouse comedian and makes for a good interview, everybody in this town cuts him a break. Fortunately, once the season starts Sweet Lou won't put up with his sucktitude for long. Scott Eyre seems less than a 100%. Maybe its me, but he hasn't looked right all spring. Michael Wuertz is erractic and nothing to write home about. Neal Cotts is pretty bad. Wil Ohlman is an unknown commodity, so hopefully he has upside and shows it so.

When you also factor in the uncertainty regarding the starting rotation, my concern over this bullpen is very valid.

ST --

"Scott Eyre seems less than a 100%. Maybe its me, but he hasn’t looked right all spring. "

Regarding Eyre, what about him doesn't look right? He had an effective outing today (1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 two-out walk, 1 K) and has a 3.00 ERA this spring. Can you elaborate and/or describe what you have seen and why it troubles you?


The allure of ST's schtick is that he never provides any evidence to support his opinions.


I don't have excel on this computer and my laptop is out of juice, sorry for the lack of number crunching. I think the Cubs bullpen is likely to be the best in the league. That's if Dempster can keep the ball down and have around a 3 ERA. The guy over at the Pirates site compared projections for each of the teams in the division and came up with the Cubs for 2nd best bullpen (a tad behind the Astros with their flotilla of AAAA guys) and the 2nd worst closer, as I recall.

Weurtz had a 2.66 ERA last year, and struck out over a batter an inning in each of his 3 years in the bigs.


His ERA's over the last three years.

He may have been a bit DIPS lucky last year, but anyone who says he 'stinks' should probably just not comment on baseball.

I do agree that I don't understand why Cotts has been handed a spot in the bullpen. Bad last year, worse in ST this year. Maybe he's the new Neifi? Is he dating Hendry's daughter?

#85 Walt

Who's to say that Kerry Wood has guts??? Maybe he has a low pain tolerance and his shoulder really isn't that bad?

I'm not at all posturing that I know the facts, but neither do you. He LOOKS like he's tougher than hell...we THINK we know the facts, but we're made aware of them from a biased media that wants to sell newspapers,magazines and TV Ads.

I tore up my shoulder in college while pitching......never had surgery....tried some rehab.....but was never ABLE to throw the ball from 3rd to 1st again (I also played 3rd). Sure it hurt, it still hurts...but I physically can't get strength to throw the ball. I also can't paint a ceiling.

It AMAZES me that, if Wood's shoulder is as bad the media lets on, he can throw the ball to home plate AT ALL---ESPECIALLY SINCE HE DIDN'T HAVE SURGERY. I THINK I hear frustration in Piniella's comments about Wood AND Prior. I THINK I hear him wanting to say to them, "Toughen up's a tough old competitive world, and right now you're losing."

Or...I could be all wet and just poking you with a sharp stick to stir up controversy. Apparently I do that at times.

Anyways....the steroids joke for his giggleberries was just that...a joke.

I will let you know what I see...right or wrong....when they both pitch in Iowa.

Wood did have surgery, Joey. Maybe you should have as well?

TRN--Last year???? He had surgery on his shoulder in the last 12 months???

I think not.

And if I'm wrong please.....someone kick me in the groin.

[...] Baseball Prospectus’ Will Carroll has said: “What’s not so bad is that sources tell me that pain is not in the back of the shoulder, but rather nearer the triceps where Wood has already had problems this spring.” I commented on the situation a few days back on this TCR thread. Included is a nice link to triceps anatomy. [...]

Recent comments

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  • how did ej martinez go from asking for $10m, to supposedly mulling over $7m offers, to eventually signing for $3m?

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  • From Keith Law:

  • This from a Kiley McDaniel chat a couple weeks ago...

    "Comment From Wrenzie
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    Kiley McDaniel: Martinez. I have Eddy (20 years old) as a 65 runner with a 55 arm and 50 raw power that profiles as an everyday CF that could be above average depending on if the bat is a 45 or a 55. I have Yusniel (19) as a 60 runner with a 55 arm and 40 raw power that can be an everyday guy if he hits enough (50 or 55)."

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  • take that giants

  • I think that if a team objects to the 1-game wildcard playin game so much, they could just win the pennant and avoid themselves the trouble.

  • Per Jesse Sanchez at, Cubs reportedly have signed 20-year old Cuban OF Eddy Julio Martinez for $3M bonus. 

  • BLOCK: Of course any advantage is an advantage. An MLB, NBA, or NHL team getting the extra game at home in a seven game series is an advantage, I just don't think it is enough of an advantage for winning a division and/or having the best record in a conference or league over the course of an 82-game season (NBA and NHL) or 162 game series (MLB).

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    Prof. Harold Hill's THINK system at work.

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