Livid

If you haven't had a chance to see or hear about how the Cubs game ended today, let me explain. Mark Derosa singled with one out in the bottom of the ninth and was replaced with Ronny Cedeno on the bases (you'd think Felix Pie would be the choice but whatever). Jacque Jones was up next and worked a 3-2 count before an Isringhausen cutter missed off the inside part of the plate. Now here's where the trouble starts. The ball was clearly inside but as we learned last Sunday with the Kyle Lohse/Ted Lilly duel, balls clearly off the plate are called strikes every once in awhile. In this case though it was called a ball except that the home plate umpire did nothing to actually acknowledge that this was the call. So Jones just stood there, the ump didn't do anything which apparently is the universal sign for a ball and a walk and Ronny Cedeno who was stealing on a 3-2 count wasn't sure if it was strike three or ball four. Cardinals catcher Yadier Molina not sure of the call either did the smart thing and threw the ball down to second and David Ecsktein, also not sure of the call tried to apply the tag. Now Cedeno actually beat the throw and this is where it gets really sketchy. He slid head first into the bag and his left foot ended up oversliding and Eckstein kept the tag applied. Walk or not, once Cedeno touches second base, he's in play and once he overslid and the tag was applied, he was out. Now the second base umpire wasn't even sure about the call but after Eckstein and Larussa argued and the umpires huddled, the right call was made and Cedeno was out. So my issue isn't with the umpires for making the wrong call because it was clearly the right call and it's not really with Cedeno, although he should really have stayed on the bag if he thought the play was still going. My issue is with how balls and strikes are called and the procedure that allowed this to happen. Shouldn't there be some sort of hand gesture or obvious way of demonstrating that a walk has been issued? Shouldn't the second base umpire be signaling the players around the bases like an air traffic controller to let them know what's going on? Games should not be decided on confusion. Of course, there's plenty of other reasons we lost, most of them associated with an offense only able to muster a single run off Braden "F******" Looper. But we now have have our 2007 version of the Barrett boner in Philly, the Latroy helmet bounce and the Neifi 2-errors on a single play to let a runner score from second base on a sacrifice fly.
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Comments

Nice picture of Lou. It's HUGE!

Even Lou and company knew the umps were right (unfortunately). Cedeno should no longer occupy a roster spot with the Chicago Cubs. They might wait until Soriano is back but it shouldn't be long now.

Oh Rob, PLEASE post the boxscore from the Eckstein-squeeze-play-to-end-it game and the Neifi-bunting-with-two-outs-to-end-it game.

Puzzled Pie wasn't called on. Maybe Lou wanted somebody experienced out there but Pie looks like he knows what he's doing more than Ronny. Not being able to score off Looper is the biggest disappointment. Umpire had a wide strike zone but still. And I am still wondering why Barrett didn't get the call over Ward. Announcers said he has killed Looper too. Barrett should have been up in the ninth too, imo.

Also that game in which Aramis lost a popup in the Sun and it fell on his head. Classic.

OPTION 1: Send Cedeno and Ohman to AAA; start Theriot at SS; Sori, Pie, and Murton in the OF; Guzman takes over for Miller; and send Jones and Ward packing.

OPTION 2: Just blow up the whole damn thing.

I'm thinking Barrett had a twinge or something, should have been pinch-hitting for Blanco in the 7th.

I don't recall the Eck suicide squeeze (or maybe I banished it from my memory), did something odd happen or just got beat on a squeeze?

Neifi's bunt was a weird one, can't recall who we played though. See if I can dig it up...

yeah, I can't recall the Neifi bunt game. I mean I remember what happened, just not who it was against or when.

Neifi bunted against washington last year with 2 outs in the 9th. It was Kerry Wood's 1st game back. Eckstein pulled the squeeze on the cubs in extra innings of a game in Late June of 2005.

"I don’t recall the Eck suicide squeeze (or maybe I banished it from my memory), did something odd happen or just got beat on a squeeze?"

One out and the bases loaded, tie game vs the Cardinals, 2005. Wuertz is pitching, albeit a little bit wildly. Mitre is ready to go (him of the extreme GB/FB ratio, thus meaning that we'd at least get a very good chance of getting a DP ball) but Baker didn't bring him in to face Eckstein; so, with a 2-1 count, the whole world (including San Marino) knew Eckstein was going to try the suicide squeeze... but Baker didn't call the pitchout. Before you know it, Taguchi scores, game over.

http://mvn.com/mlb-cubs/2006/05/18/what-is-th...

Read through the comments on Neifi's bunt day

man, both those Neifi plays were the same month....ugh

http://mvn.com/mlb-cubs/2006/05/26/the-making...

Rob, here's why I think Eckstein knew it was ball four (aside from the fact that the pitch was in front of him):

Picture the exchange between Eck and the ump. Eck says, I tagged him off the base. The ump says, It doesn't matter. It was ball four.

So what does Eckstein do? Does he say, Oh, I didn't know that--and stop arguing?

No, he keeps arguing: Ump, it doesn't matter if it was ball four. He goes past the base, I can tag him out.

The umps have a meeting and decide that Eckstein is right.

======

I don't have the play in front of me, but I'm curious to see whether Cedeno might have been out (in his own mind) before he touched the bag, in which case he would be less worried about holding onto the bag.

This gem was posted in the Chronololy thread:

By: Blorf.

"Cheer up, tomorrow is the all-2nd baseman lineup:

Womack (2B) LF
Hairston (2B) CF
Walker (2B) 1B
Bynum (2B) RF
Neifi (2B) 3B
Cedeno (2B) SS
Theriot (2B) 2B
Blanco (C) C
Marshall (P) "

"I don’t have the play in front of me, but I’m curious to see whether Cedeno might have been out (in his own mind) before he touched the bag, in which case he would be less worried about holding onto the bag."

Nope, he was easily safe. He beat the throw by a step. He's just a terrible base stealer.

I'm sure Eck realized it was ball four right after the play, maybe even before since he was actually looking in to the play the whole time. By the time the play was over it was obvious because JJ finally started trotting to 1b.

The point is that it certainly wasn't obvious to the runner and it should be and it wasn't obvious to me watching at home. I thought it was a ball but the way JJ, the ump and Yadier all reacted they certainly weren't sure which made me unsure. Cedeno I'm sure saw the same thing and kept busting it to get to second base when he didn't have to.

It's just a b.s way to decide a game.

The E-Man — April 20, 2007 @ 4:03 pm

Was there today. God I hate Cardinal fans.

My “60 Day” eval period is starting to get hacked away at.

Lilly was wonderful except for ONE mistake. It is truly unfair to have these starters thinking that they have to throw a shutout evry outing.

Today’s AB by fucking Hank White was worse than the three strike-out AB by JJ last week imo.

Just totally inept at moving the runners into scoring position. Also, what threw us for a loop waas that for some reason, Quade held DeRosa at send base on a slow rolling ball to RF with a slow OF, Preston Wilson. After the inning, DeRosa and Quade had a pretty heated discussion about this.

I have no idea why he did this.

What I do have an idea about, is the same little stupid bad baseball decisions that were made by our team are still being made. As a team.

I have a feeling that we will be seeing best-in-the-NL performances from A-Ram, Hill, and Lee, yet the myriad of stupid play and lack of performance in key situations will not have us sniffing the playoffs at all.

Honestly, right now, I have a feeling that NEXT year might really be the year because Lou will be able to rid himself of the “talent” that is keeping the team back.

After the game, Lou stated that its up to he and the coaching staff to help the guys put it together (fucked up play). Lou sounded discouraged and was not pleased with Cedeno. CHAD: your Izturis totally, unquestionally, without a doubt, unfailingly, certainly, SUCKS ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOTH he and Cedeno are not worth a hill ‘o beans! What a PILE OF CRAP. GOLD GLOVE??!! RIGHT! Take a called-third strike in a key AB right after Hank White stinks the joint up! OY!

BTW, I don’t know if TV showed this, but Cliff Floyd really tagged his first out to right, but the wind really held it in. Would have been 2-0 Cubs in the 1st.

I'll be there again tomorrow - tickets already paid for a long time ago and its Marquis against his old club.

Oh "Its Still Early"!!! LOL!!!

All this talk of confusion is ridiculous. Walk, no walk, in play, not in play, whatever - there's no situation where it's OK to overslide the bag.

I mean, this is a pretty common thing, isn't it? A close ball four when the runner's going - happens all the time, or at least enough that no one should be left standing around scratching their heads when it does happen. Yet no one ever gets called out at second base in this scenario, because all you have to do is STAY ON THE BASE.

Fact of the matter is, if Ronny does something that is an absolute fundamental of running the bases, there wouldn't have been any 'confusion' at all.

I was there on a Cubs road trip for the Barrett game. The best part is that the next day we got to see Prior let the first 3 batters reach base and then give up a grand slam to Abreu. We also got to witness the Cubs getting dominated by Victor freakin' Zambrano and Jae flippin' Seo. Needless to say, it was a disappointing trip.

Well put Brian C.

Brian C has it right. He just overslid the bag, like a freakin' moron. He's actually lucky that it was ball for instead of strike 3. If it was strike 3, the game would have been over there. Then how pissed would everybody be?

"ball for"

er...

ball four
ball 4
ball IV

Cedeno was in to pinch run. His only duty today was to run the bases properly. I don't care what was going on around him, his only goddamn job was to run the fucking bases. So that breaks down to five simple tasks:

1) Leave the base when you should - check
2) Run as fast as you can - check
3) Start your slide at the proper time - red x
4) Slide properly (aka not headfirst) - red x
5) Stop when you reach the base if there's a play on you - red x

You forgot task 6!

Defy the laws of physics in order to do 4 and 5.

Speaking of ugly, low talent hacks, apparently Amy Whitehouse wants to do Sheryl Tweedy

http://music.yahoo.com/promo-29644410-159-200...

Agree that the umps need to more clearly call Ball 4 in that situation -- if Molina had thrown the ball into CF, LaRussa would have gone ballistic.

But...I have to believe the Cedeno bonehead play happens MAYBE once every twenty years at the MLB (or college, or high school) level. I don't believe in curses, but, wow. On what other team does a pinch-runner make an astonishingly stupid baserunning paly? Of couse, this all assumes the Cubs would have gotten the big hit to score Cedeno. Not likely.

I assume Pie was being held as a possible LH pinch-hitter against Isringhausen if the Cubs had kept the inning alive.

I'm really looking forward to the next off-season, when Hendry signs a lot more low-OBP, high K fly ball hitters, then wonders why the Cubs struggle to score runs when the wind blows in (which is about half the games).

one stat I'm starting to really dislike, and it's very basic:

one run games, Cubs 0-4
two run games, Cubs 0-3

basically it's an offense that isn't generating enough runs when the game is close. We've come from behind twice (opening day at WF and 1st game of the Braves series) and lost both of those.

...and more dumbass baserunning than you can shake a stick at; including Murton in that 1st Atlanta game and Cedeno today, not to mention 3 Soriano pickoffs. I don't think Bob Dernier can fix that level of stupidity.

Can't we win two in a row...just once this season?

Dusty on the ESPN game tonight NY vs Boston.

A-Rod #11 HR in the 4th.

don't guys overslide the bag all the time? I mean not every day, it's happened quite a few times before, right? It sucks and it shouldn't happen, but it does because well guys make physical mistakes all the time.

It justs stupid for baseball to allow it to happen where it's basically a guessing game on what was called.

It will be interesting to see how Lou deals with this ongoing dumb baseball stuff. Particularly since so many blunders are involved in these close game losses. I hope we don't have to watch another full season of stupid baseball on the bases.

please add Jerome Burnitz getting picked off at 3rd base by Brian Schneider (July 2005) to the classic Cub baserunning list.

it'll be interesting to if we ever start hitting...

I can't believe he didn't pinch-hit for Blanco or Izturis in the 7th, at least one of them.

got to go 7-2 to get out of April with a .500 or better record

David Eckstein was VERY aware of the play, and he did the right thing, he tagged a runner that went PAST 2nd base, as I said on my MVN Cardinals' site. Really classy move though throwing plastic bottles onto the field, good job Cub fans. The Cardinals may be off to a slow start, but our fans would NEVER act like that. I don't have a problem with the Cubs as a team, and I actually agree that they need to do a better job of calling balls and strikes quicker, but it boils down to the runner going PAST 2nd, making the ball live again.

ARod goes deep again...#12, this one in the 5th a 3 run job. Coco Crisp fell over the bullpen wall just missing a spectacular catch.

Hey Josh, take a hike. You take take you opinions of the Cub fans and stick them in your Busch.

Josh-

Enjoy St. Louis. Tell Ma and Pa Kettle we said "hello".

oh yeah, in case anyone cares...

If this is a good excuse to send Ronny Cedeno down to AAA, then we can blame him all you want. :)

Cedeno's just another shining example on why just about everything that happens in spring training should be ignored.

Sixteen games -- 10% of the season -- and neither DLee nor JJ (nor Soriano) have hit a home run. Wow. Why is it other teams can hit HR at Wrigely in April, but the Cubs can't.

I know it makes no sense, but these next 2 games feel very big. Lose 'em both, and we are in one of our early season spirals -- 6-12 and falling fast. Win 'em both, then we have a winning week, everyone feels good, Soriano is coming back, the pitching is great, easy division, etc.

stay classy cubs fans. Stay Classy

FWIW, I know the MVN crew took a lot of heat in January/Feb. for the site being down during improvements, but it was worth it.

In my opinion, this site looks a lot better.

And Josh, it's pretty apparent your fans would NEVER do a lot of things... such as posting comments on your site.

I know it makes no sense, but these next 2 games feel very big. Lose ‘em both, and we are in one of our early season spirals — 6-12 and falling fast. Win ‘em both, then we have a winning week, everyone feels good, Soriano is coming back, the pitching is great, easy division, etc.

I agree with this in a lot of ways. It's a little scary that our season comes down to two starts by Jason Marquis and Wade Miller {shudder}

Rob G.,
You are a good writer and a classy guy.

Billy Bucks and Chad,
You prove my point, you losers...

And, Little Nate Lewis,
I have the traffic, i just don't encourage this format...nothing wrong with it, it just isnt my style.

Rob,
Just to clarify, i was being serious, not sarcastic...
My problem isn't with you at all, i enjoy your work...
it is losers like chad and billy bucks who are just childish losers to fire insults like they do. The Cubs do have a ton of great fans like any other team, and you Rob, are one of the good ones it seems... Keep up the good work, I enjoy your writing..

I agree with you Sayers...they are big for both of our clubs... But Jason Marquis, when he is on, when his sinker sinks, is pretty good, or at least he was for us. I am not looking forward to the Cardinals having to face him tomorrow when we play you guys. One thing is for sure, we always play each other down to the wire...

Hey Josh, BLOW ME YOU FUCK! You want me to come over to your pathetic little site and flame you? At least I have the class to stay away from your site. Not out of respect, I just don't like leaving posts that NO ONE WILL READ!

GO AWAY!

I actually didn't see any of this hullabaloo in the ninth. I turned it off in the eighth after Henry didn't get the freaking bunt down and Lou didn't pinch hit for Izturis.

I knew it was over then.

Chad,
Let's talk baseball, not insults. I am not here to bash the Cubs, or you. But you continue to show how little class you do have. Grow up, I mean, there is no reason to use that kind of language.

Josh,

I'm sure you are a nice guy and all, but why would you think today of all days is a good idea to wonder and post to this website? We are good fans-great fans. But if you have to ask the question what is wrong with us, then you haven't been paying attention to baseball for the past 99 years. Nobody here wants to hear from a Cardinal fan--don't you get it?

Spare me with your "we would never do that" crap, because if you were us, you would. Save the holier than thou attitude for some place else.

You don't encourage this format??

I just read your post for todays game. You are practically begging Cubs fans to comment. Hell, you even ask us to "bring it."

And as for your comments that BB and Chad are "losers"... what the hell did you honestly expect when you came over here running your mouth?

Additionally, you want to talk about "class"? I've been reading this message board regularly for awhile now and I can remember exactly one fellow MVN blogger who has felt the need to come and flame Cubs fans.... Mr. Josh Martin.

Seriously, your traffic probably jumped 300% and you might even get a post or two from Cubs fans this evening who feel the need to "bring it"... consider it a good day for your blog and shut the hell up.

I didnt start this, I simply stated that Eckstein did know what was going on, and commented on the fact that Cub fans would act that way throwing things onto the field. Say what you want...and good luck to all of you. You guys are just so bitter and insulting, but whatever, act how you want

and Vegas Brian, I can respect what you said...

I think it would be a good idea if you stopped making things worse by talking.

Maybe you should sit a few plays out, Champ.

You started this by whining about the bad ol' Cubs fans who throw things on the field. We don't need you editorials. I'm a loser? You're the loser. You come over here to talk shit about the best fans in baseball, well screw you. The fact remains that you can win 100 world series and no one will care. You're town is third rate and an unfortunate connection when I have to fly American Airlines.

Stick to your own blog, or are you tired of just listening to your self masturbate online? I went to your site. Really off the hook over there. You have more posts than comments. Nice job.

Let's play "What's More Insulting?"

1. Faux-naive Cardinals bloggers ("gee whillikers, fellers, can't we just talk a little baseball today?")
2. Faux-naive Cardinals bloggers patronizing Rob G (who is a great Cub fan, but I'm guessing he doesn't need benediction from The Greatest Fans In Their Own Minds)
3. The damn Cubs embarrassing us all with their stupid slop and withered bats and making Braden Looper look like Bob Gibson

i just saw what i missed today on baseball tonite.

can we drop this lou-the-saviour bullshit yet?

these players are making mistakes and no amount of butt slaps or screaming in anyone's face is gonna "fix" baseball problems. they're baseball players, not teenagers with generation gap communication issues.

humanity is a bitch...

4 Steps to Being a Total Douchebag
by Josh Martin

1. Go to Cubs website and make stupid comment about Cub fans in general, thereby insulting everyone who posts comments to this website
2. Make a statement that your team's fans are much too classy to ever misbehave, despite the fact that St. Louis is about 99% redneck trash
2. Rub it in when your team wins
3. Act shocked and apalled when the insulted fanbase reacts to your douchebaggy comments angrily.
4. Masturbate to photo of David Eckstein while wearing a game-worn Pujols jersey

I guess that was actually 5 steps, with 2 being counted twice. Point still stands.

Crunch,

Has Piniella screamed in anybody's face yet that we know of? I know he was quite brusque with Dempster, but other than that...?

I certainly didn't expect salvation from Piniella. I hoped that this kind of garbage, shoelaces-tied-together play wouldn't happen during his tenure, but as you say, players do make mistakes no matter who's helming the ship.

I continue to hope that Piniella will do more about this situation than Baker ever seemed to. I agree that Piniella's more open expressions of disgust do not solve the problem(s) by themselves, but I hope they indicate a willingness to take more action than we've seen in the past.

I guess I mean "shoes-tied-together." One always ties one's shoelaces together, if one is doing it right. At least that's what I tell my 4-year-old.

CHAD:

Man you HATE Cardinal fans!

But - they all dress in Red!

Don't you like red?

Dude - seriously - I didn't read everything, but I thought you were in the legal profession and if so would be open to a little dialogue?

I didn't see the bottles on the field, as I was on my way out. Its pretty fucked up, imo. BUT - talking about "class" from people from Missouri? Cardinals Nation? C'mon now!

As the only consistently winning sports team in the provincial city of St. Louis, the Cards are the only game in town. I am envious, and perplexed why this is so. But if this Josh dude personally felt how those of us obsessed with the Cubs feel when our team was 5 outs from the WS and blew it - how every year since then its been "wait 'til next year" - he'd understand the true frustrations of the passionate Cub fan.

Finally, WE can insult OUR team, but when SOMEONE ELSE does it, particularly from St. Louis and secondly the South Side, its like telling me my sister is ugly.

I think there should be a dialogue between blogs, and I was hoping there might be a better way than cussing each other out.

FWIW.

Living in Missouri, I have been to Cardinals games on a routine basis and fans do throw things there.

It's always silly to compare fans because invariably a certain segment in each city acts stupid. It's also silly to come to a Cubs site and make backhanded insults after a close loss then act put upon when Cubs fans act pissy in return.

That said, I am very tired of Lou pretending he can keep moving players around to different positions and lineup spots like this were a video game. I'm also tired of him not giving players the opportunity to play on a consistent basis so they can get a feel for the game.

Players in slumps need ABs to break out of them. When you play Murton one day, Floyd the next, Jones the next, DeRosa the next you're not going to get anyone comfortable at the plate.

Lou seems to feel anyone should be able to play anywhere and whenever just because he thinks they can, regardless of reality.

"4. Masturbate to photo of David Eckstein while wearing a game-worn Pujols jersey"

LOL!

"I certainly didn’t expect salvation from Piniella."

me either.

some really have plated up a big helping of lou here, though.

he makes things happens, he turns people around, he's gonna make heads roll on dumb plays and make sure it never happens again. etc etc etc...

still the same players playing the same game.

most of these people are the ones convinced that dusty was somehow making or letting players do all this stuff. hell, even pin's still getting "benefit of the doubt" about stuff that i dont even see how he can have a damn thing to do with. how he's gonna go "fix" some things by...well, its never really explained too much.

im just happy people are taking PLAYERS to task rather than putting all the crap on a manager.

Today was another classic Cubs fuck-up day. Let's see, you had:

1) Shitty opposing pitcher who suddenly lights that shit up against the inept Cubs offense, check.
2) Shitty opposing batter in whom the Cubs once had interest but everyone was relieved they didn't sign ends up hitting massive home run against Cubs to win game, check.
3) David Fucking Ecksfuckingstein, check.
4) Shitty baserunning, check, double-check.
5) Rarely seen baseball play [interfering with catcher] which actually goes in favor of Cubs but then results in no runs scored, check.
6) Decent performance by newly-signed free agent whom everyone thought would suck wasted, check.

Shall I go on?

JOHANNN: "That said, I am very tired of Lou pretending he can keep moving players around to different positions and lineup spots like this were a video game. I’m also tired of him not giving players the opportunity to play on a consistent basis so they can get a feel for the game."

A couple of Lou's known traits are: 1. nurturing young talent (see A-Rod and Rocco Baldelli) 2. He will tinker with lineups until there is production 3. if players do NOT produce - they will generally sit more than others (UNLIKE DUSTY BAKER)

He goes with the hot hand, man.

We only have TWO hot hands right now.

Most of The people who were hot in ST aren't now. It is early in the season and he is experimenting with what combo gives him the best chance to win.

I'm all for it.

*Man you HATE Cardinal fans!

But - they all dress in Red!

Don’t you like red?

Dude - seriously - I didn’t read everything, but I thought you were in the legal profession and if so would be open to a little dialogue?

I didn’t see the bottles on the field, as I was on my way out. Its pretty fucked up, imo. BUT - talking about “class” from people from Missouri? Cardinals Nation? C’mon now!*

You know, I used to hate fans from other teams, but now I don't. I envy them. It's not often when you can talk smack about another team and know to almost a certain degree that your team is gonna kick the asses in. To those who play the Cubs, that's a luxury they can afford. Even if their team sucks, they're gonna beat us or we're gonna give the game away.

Oh yeah, they also have a nice shiny WS trophy to look at. Must be nice.

#62: Crunch, not to beat a dead horse but I always felt I was on pretty solid ground blaming both former players (you know the culprits) and Baker for playing them/making excuses for them.

#60: I quite agree. The idea of rotating lineups and positions in the field seems fine in principle, but in execution it's getting pretty chaotic. The problem seems to stem from the glut of OFs, each with a different skill set, and Theriot's emergence as a Really Useful Player. What do you do with all these guys? "Well, play 'em all 3 innings at a time!" seems to be the answer, and it's getting a little out of hand.

well, im not calling out everyone/anyone personally on the whole manager vs. player thing.

after tonite's disgusting set of replays combined with the rest of the year's play so far we're seeing a lotta bonehead and hackish stuff. some of it is cuz of players playing out of their comfort zone...some of it is just baseball being a game of chance...some of it is just boneheaded stupidity.

it got to a point last year where player mistakes became dusty's problem and so far this year these same player mistakes have led some to believe that lou's gonna "fix" this right up.

from where im at, there is no fixing to be done with your mouth and running 1000 drills wouldnt stop a lotta these player mistakes.

we see players doing stupid crap all the time. im kinda enjoying seeing people pick apart and share their views of why these players are screwing up rather than saying "blah manager keeps letting this happen" or "blah manager sure as hell wont let that happen again."

I don't blame that Cardinal fan posting here. It seems like he gets pretty lonely over there on his page. Really though, I've been to Busch many times and their fans are pretty assholish. Especially when you're wearing clothing that is associated with the Cubs. And the whole,
"baseball's greatest fans" and "baseball heaven" slogans gotta go. Talk about propaganda.

I think it takes time for a manager to fix the problems of a previous manager. Lou did take over a 66 win team, lets be real. It is pretty rare to take it from that to a division winner. The team had already been thourghly run into the ground by the previous joker in charge.

Piniella has already shown a willingness to change things that are not working. Unlike Baker who for his entire term as manager kept putting the same idiot losers in the #2 slot and kept playing the same worthless players for years.

Lou isn't the saviour, he is just the step in the direction this team needed in leadership if it ever was going to think about winning a championship. Dusty Baker is nothing more than a flat out loser and a baseball idiot. We weren't goint to ever win a damn thing with him in charge.

I was in college at Mizzou during the '03 playoffs...the Cardinals fans I knew were anything but "classy". If you wanna be the 2nd visitor to Josh's blog, you can see that he uses the words class or classy in 4 of his first 6 sentences during his anti-Cubs fan rant. And if you check his profile, you can see that he truly is a HUGE cardinals fan.

If everyone on 3/31/07 could have looked into the future and known that, after the first 16 games of the season, the following would be true, where would you put their record at?

-Lee would be hitting .367
-Ramirez would be hitting .367
-Theriot would be hitting .326 while playing in all 16 games
-In a combined 10 starts and combined 65 innings; Lilly, Hill & Marquis would all have era's under 2.75
-In a combined 20 appearances and a combined 24 innings pitched; Wuertz, Cotts and Dempster will have given up 0 earned runs

A lot of the areas I worried about going into the season, such as starting pitching from Lilly & Marquis, dependability of Cotts & Wuertz, effectiveness of Dempster as closer, have been flawless.

The areas I thought would be extremely solid, such as defense at shortstop, reduction in boneheaded/lack of fundamental type mistakes, Zambrano anchoring the staff, have all killed us this year.

Well I do appreciate the compliments Josh, but you have to realize what a mistake you made by coming over here and making comment #33. There's nothing worse than having someone rub salt in a fresh wound, especially when that someone roots for our arch-rival that just beat us.

If you want others to act classy, you should start with yourself.

I've been reading but haven't posted in a while. I believe it's still too early to draw many hard conclusions about the Cubs. Just a few comments:

Rob G.: "Shouldn’t the second base umpire be signaling the players around the bases like an air traffic controller to let them know what’s going on?"

In a word, no. It's not his duty to do so, especially on a live play with a throw to second made. You will see a secondbase ump raise his arms to let a runner know it's ball four, when it's a 3-2 count and two outs, hence, the runner is not "stealing second", but is running because of the count, and there is no throw made.

Cedeno was 100% at fault here. Eckstein made a heads-up play to see it through to the end.

Geez, that Josh Whoever knew what buttons to push, huh? Some of you gave him exactly what he was trolling for. I trust he's happy now.

When are we going to see the Cubs' "All-Star" shortstop? I commented last year that I didn't see a dime's worth of difference between Cesar, Neifi, and the other low-OBP "Dusty Guys" we've had the privelege to watch the past couple of years. Is there a reason why I should change that opinion?

Theriot continues to play like Knoblauch of 10 years ago.

I'm still reading through the thread, but #63 by no, sad but true, I'm actually laughing out loud in a room by myself. I love it.

"Knoblauch of 10 years ago"--I like it.

My question was, why sign Derosa to start at 2B when The Riot looked good late last year. But then again, would Riot be hitting this good under the pressures of starting? And, who exactly is leading this "slugging" team of ours in HR right now? Derosa.

SO.

I have to agree with #71, so far-- the things I didn't really think would happen (Lilly pitching well, Dempster being effective) are, and at least a few things (Soriano's batting, Z's pitching) have been surprisingly unpleasant.

And I sure do hope it lasts, but I'll say it again here:

Rich Hill is the real thing.

And Ronny Cedeno depresses me to no end. I admit I was wrong, I thought he'd come around and be a stud like we all hoped. Get rid of him.

And ditto for Izturis (the stud part). But tell me if this sounds familiar... not much of a hitter, but a gold glove on his resume.... "slick-fielding".... disturbing downward trends.... didn't we trade that guy to the Tigers?

(Hell, I'd take Ramon Martinez back to be there everyday, flirt with .270 and not screw up miserably.)

And as for the Cards guy, I think you guys all hit the high points, thanks for being here when you were, kinda wish I was, although my responses wouldn't have been printable. I think Vegas said it best. But in reality, fuck that guy.

Quote of the day... from the Cards guy:

We are like 28th in hitting last time I checked

Just wondering... who writes posts about baseball sounding like a valley girl?

Speaking of the Cards - Cubs Rivalry.....I'm a longtime Cubs fan who now is living in New England against his will :) We just started little league baseball this week, and guess what team my son was placed on....yep, you guessed it...the Cards. He got his uniform last night, and I told him he wasn't allowed to wear that hat on our property. Poor kid...he cried when he found out he was playing for the Cards (before I even had a chance to say anything). The rivalry is alive and well with my 8-year old all the way up in the cold Northeast!

Anyone know how fox decides what game to cover in your region? i can't watch teh game today because fox is showing me the yanks/sox game in western ohio. so western, almost indiana. and since its a national blackout game, i cant watch it on mlb.tv

just venting my frustrations with fox..and the cubs..and mlb.tv..and ronny

"Really classy move though throwing plastic bottles onto the field, good job Cub fans. The Cardinals may be off to a slow start, but our fans would NEVER act like that." -Josh Martin

Try not winning a world series for 99 years and then tell me if Cards fans won't act like that.

Cardinal fans would not throw bottles on the field as they would take them to their corner market to get the 5 cents back so they can save money for their traveling crystal meth lab.

Mike C-#69
Right on, 15 games will not change 4 years of dudeness in that clubhouse.

Cardinals fans would not throw PLASTIC bottles on the field. They would throw GLASS Jack Daniels bottles on the field. Or is that White Sox fans? I forget.

hahaha. it's kinda obvious why josh posted that comment. he did it to get hits on his blog. admit it, how many of you actually went over to his blog to have a look at who this troll is?

That's right 10man. I actually did read what the fag is writing over there.

not me, 10man :)

I'd rather stick knitting pins in my eyes than read a Cardinal blog.

I read his blog in the pre-season to see how he expected things to go. He was pretty confident they would have 3-4 Cy Young candidates in the rotation and that Edmonds would revert to MVP contender form.

Cards fans have been blissfully ignorant of what happens when your players (particularly pitchers) get hurt over the last 5 years, so much so that now when it happens to them, they don't even realize it affects the outcome of their games.

Terrible game. Miscues, bad calls, and general bullshittery aside, the real shame here was the inability to torch Braden f'ing Looper. This on the heals of barely knicking Redman. Feh.

And the Cards blogger -- very lame. I give him kudos for actually being able to read and write, but I think his time would be better spent perming his mullet or waxing his Trans Am with his fellow Cards fans. This is a Cubs blog.

Terrible game. Miscues, bad calls, and general bullshittery aside, the real shame here was the inability to torch Braden f'ing Looper. This on the heals of barely knicking Redman. Feh.

And the Cards blogger -- very lame. I give him kudos for actually being able to read and write, but I think his time would be better spent perming his mullet or waxing his Trans Am with his fellow Cards fans. This is a Cubs blog.

In a word, no. It’s not his duty to do so, especially on a live play with a throw to second made. You will see a secondbase ump raise his arms to let a runner know it’s ball four, when it’s a 3-2 count and two outs, hence, the runner is not “stealing second”, but is running because of the count, and there is no throw made.

I realize it's not is duty now, I'm just saying it should be his duty in the future and some sort of procedures should be put in place to make it more clear what was called on the field.

As for Josh, you all got your shots in, let's go back to being civil now.

his duty now...meh

steve — April 21, 2007 @ 9:58 am
That’s right 10man. I actually did read what the fag is writing over there.

Are you sure you are not a White Sox fan? Now that's class.

And that link someone sent on crime rates in chi/stl....didn't have the rape numbers in for chicago, we would have killed them in rape.

I’m just saying it should be his duty in the future . . .

It's been SOP in baseball for a long time for the ump to signal strikes and not to signal balls. They're not going to change it because something dopey happened in a Cub game.

It used to drive me crazy in little-league games when amateurish umps tried to signal balls, sometimes with their right arms. Just don't move. Don't do anything.

Sorry if that came off a little Sox fanish. I will assure you that I am not a Sox fan and it's a little bit of an insult to be called one.

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