Game 37 Recap: Cubs 10, Mets 1

A Laugher. (And we were the ones laughing!)

GameCenter Play by Play Box Score Photos Game Chart

W - Zambrano (4-3 ). The fight against high-blood pressure L - Maine (5-1) Important things to take from this game. 1. The Latest Lineup: For two days in a row, Theriot leads off and Soriano hits third. 2. Fontenot's 2007 debut : While I'm sure he is too esoteric of a player and the move too inconsequential for anyone here to have an opinion about it, nonetheless I will point out that he stroked a double in his pinch-hit appearance. 3. Like the title says: It's been a long time since we had a game that was over, early. Let alone, in a good way. 4. Z's return to form. Z had several dominating innings, and several more innings where he successfully avoided potential disasters, the sort of one-bad-inning-to-ruin-a-good-start events that we've seen from him before. He only struck out 3 through 8, and gave up a couple of shots to Shawn Green. But still, it was a great improvement. 5. Ramirez's mammoth grand slam. Aramis hit a tape-measure grand slam to blow the game open in the sixth. You'll be seeing it on the sports highlight show of your choice. And now, for what you really came here for....

  • Weird first inning. Theriot gets a lead-off walk, steals second and goes to third on a throwing error. Floyd K's, but Soriano walks. Ramirez then fouls out on a popup behind home plate, and Soriano tags, and advances to second. Sacrifice pop-foul to the catcher?
  • After going down 0-2, Ward follows with a 2-run double . Another quick lead for the Cubs!
  • Z with a 7 pitch inning to start out. Listening to Mets announcers given to me by the feed, they say he's severely short-arming his throws? Will have to look for that
  • Cubs also threaten in the second, with singles from Jones and Izturis, a sacrifice by Zambrano, leaving runners at 2nd and 3rd, one out, for Theriot. He strikes out. With two outs and RISP, Floyd is up. The Mets announcers explain to me that in a game, there are four or five outs that a pitcher needs to get. I could have sworn it was 27. In any case, Floyd isn't one of those outs, he singles in a run on a lined shot. 3-0
  • Izturis and Theriot turn a "tailor-made" double play, very nicely, in the second. Looked like they'd been working together for years.
  • And it's a good thing too, as Green then procedes to just destroy a ball for a double, high off the RF wall. Very, very, hard hit ball.
  • LoDuca follows with a single to left. Soriano comes up firing, and gets Green at a play at home plate. The throw was a one-hop strike, quick release (if not much on it, due to not setting properly but just letting his momentum carry him), and Barrett blocked the plate well.
  • Maine's getting hit pretty hard. Ward and Barrett both hit him hard - a single and a double - in the third. Commenting on whether Ward could have scored from first had he read the double better, one announcer told the other "I'm not sure Ward has ever scored from first on a double." Ouch. A ground out, intentional walk, and strike out of Zambrano later, and no runs score.
  • Zambrano with a nice 1-2-3 fourth inning. Crank up those Z-pitching-to-impress-the-Mets rumors.
  • I'm not convinced I like these Mets announcers that I have to listen to. I guess homers really are annoying, when they aren't your homers.
  • And Shawn Green clobbers another one, for a solo HR in the fifth. Z hasn't walked anyone, although this one was hit on a 3-2 count.
  • Some interesting exchanges after the HR. I didn't see it, but the Mets announcersare griping about Z jawing at Green as he rounded the bases. A few pitches after that, Z and Barrett have a very animated conference where they meet halfway between the mound and home plate, start yacking at each other. Z turns around, Barrett keeps walking with him to the mound, and when Z turns back to face home plate, sees Barrett is still with him. They finish the chat, Z gives Barret a pat on the shoulder, and that's the end of it. Hmm.
  • These Mets announcers are really playing up the "Z is Crazy, He's Too Emotional" routine. They were on it, before the Green HR, and now they're all over it. It's annoying, but not too surprising, that this narrative has stuck to Zambrano longer than it should. Regardless of his emotional state, Z gets out of trouble in the fifth.
  • And now, the Mets announcers spend the sixth inning talking about facial hair. How does this distinguish them from the Parachat?
  • Zambrano, Theriot and Floyd load up the bases with one out in the top of the sixth (in between this captivating discussion about mustaches.) Heart of the order coming up with one out and the bases loaded, a good team has GOT to score some runs here. Soriano misses a bases-clearing double down the RF line by a couple feet foul. From there, he pops out. Happily, Ramirez demolishes a Schoenweiss pitch, hitting a grand slam HR ten rows deep into the "Mezzanine" section between the lower and upper deck in left, just fair of the LF foul pole. 7-1 Cubs.
  • Ha! Still in the sixth, with Ward at first and Sele now pitching, Barrett doubles off the RF wall. Ward (who, you will remember, the broadcaster doubted had EVER scored from first on a double) chugs around third. And with some help from a missed relay throw, scores from first.
  • Z drills Delgado with a fastball on the hand. Real bad "Crack" sound through the audio. The Mets announcers now tell me that Z had a reputation for being a head-hunter, early in his career. Are they simply inventing a back-story and personality for Z, at this point? Yeesh.
  • And who is this scrawny guy pinch hitting for the Cubs in the eight? Mike Fontenot! He reintroduces himself to The Show with an opposite field ground rule double, a one-hopper off the warning track. Mets announcers wonder if he's related to Ray Fontenot. I had also wondered that. Anyone know?
  • Z gets into a jam in the eighth, and these clown Mets announcers start complaining about the possibility of the game dragging onward because of the Cubs going to their bullpen. Seriously. They think it's bad form for us to bring in a reliever, since we're already thrashing them. They want to go home.
  • FWIW, Eyre pitched a problem-free ninth inning. Now, to get Howry straightened out.

Parachat Review

Inning 1 -

Well, the game begins with the discovery that ParaChat is right-shifting the text. (Much like I have done, here) This could be a weird night of chat.

Inning 2

Anna Benson (ick). Planet of the Apes Trading Cards. My emasculation and embarassment in the face of this great parachat crisis. TCR pay scales. A thoughtful discussion of the disturbing resilience of anti-Semitism, paired with a discussion of "hottest Jewish women." And that gets followed with a discussion of proper techniques for blocking home plate. Go figure.

Inning 3:

I spent most of the third clearing out my internet cache, to fight the ParaChat deamons. Beats me, what went on while I was away. What do I look like, a machine? Huh? Do I? Because I was told that, once....


Inning 4:

And parachat is fixed for me. We pick up with a Suns/Spurs discussion. Where'd Carlos learn English, and can he teach it to the Americans? Furby or Teddy Ruxpin: which do you prefer? And what do you associate with the word "Furby"? What did Z name his children?

Inning 5:

Why the heck are we still talking about this Amy Winehouse person? And what's the deal with her teeth? And what drugs has she done? And do Will Smith and Jada Pinkett have an open relationship? And what sort of name is "Endy?" All these deep questions, and using parachat sounds to scare the dog.


Inning 6:

Color schemes that work on Moises Alou. The actual baseball game, the Ramirez HR, the Mets' bullpen usage. Bulls game, Blame Barrett, and scoreboard watching. Fantasy ball.


Inning 7:

Is Julio Franco the Iggy Pop of baseball, or is Iggy Pop the Julio Franco of punk? Augie Ojeda, we miss you. If Daryle Ward could run and field.... The story of Santo's flaming toupe. Veronica Mars and the Gilmore Girls, News Radio and Charmed, Neal Cotts and Phil Hartman.


Inning 8:

What to call Fontenot. My metaphorical B.O. The Bulls' game. Who's riding dinosaurs in heaven? Ward's new nickname: The Wardosaurus. (credit: AaronB)


Inning 9:

Wikipedia, time machines, and the coming reign of Fontenot. Should Z pitch the ninth? Todd Wellemeyer. Is there anything that can be blamed on Barrett, that Fontenot COULDN'T fix?




Good wrap, Trans. Keep it up. These are fun.

Dusty said on Baseball tonite that Z pitches batting practice on his off days...left handed. Kruk asked how fast he can throw, Dusty said "82-83".

Z is the Chuck Norris of baseball.

Onley said he would not be surprised if Z tells Cubs to go stick it in the next couple of days.

~sigh~ Please stay, Z. The ownership and management are dumb, but the fans are pretty good.

I don't know how long I can (or want to) keep up the extensive game recaps, they sort of keep me from actually watching the game. But so far, they're fun.

Saw that too Jacos...d'you wonder if maybe it went down like this?

Dusty: Man, we would be so much better if we had a left-handed batting practice pitcher.

Z: But Skip, I pitch batting practice left-handed.

Dusty: What? Are you serious?

Z (smirking): Sure, all the time. You just never see me do it.

Dusty: This I gotta see.

Z: *throws one pitch left-handed*

Radar gun: 57

Z: *kicks radar gun*

Radar gun: 83

Dusty: Wow, dude, you just blew my mind.

"Is there anything that can be blamed on Barrett, that Fontenot COULDN’T fix?"

Fontenot can teach Barrett to block the plate properly.

"Dusty said on Baseball tonite that Z pitches batting practice on his off days…left handed."

We still don't have a lefthanded BP pitcher? Geez...

I forgot about the whole no-lefthanded bp pitcher excuse last year.

While z pitches with his left hand he text messages his brother with the right talking about the last episode of the Sopranos.


I believe that bullpen coach Lester Strode is the team's lefty BP pitcher.

I imagine that if the coaches are really letting him, Z probably throws a group on days when we're facing a lefty. Awfully tough duty for one guy to throw all three groups of BP. said Piniella told Z to shorten his arm action.

Z is a head hunter. I thought everyone knew that.

Barrett's CS% is higher than Blanco's, and he is being stolen on about 40% less frequently than last year. Amazing what a couple of lefties and Greg Maddux's departure can do to that stat.

I'm in Dallas this week for work and had dinner tonight at Bob's Steak and Chophouse with a co-worker. We leave the restaurant and are waiting for the valet to bring the rental around when a Lexus SC430 convertible pulls up to the curb.... out steps Mark Cuban (solo). My co-worker shouts out a "Buy the Cubs!!!!" Cuban gives him a shit eating grin and heads into the restaurant.... pretty funny.

Freddy: That is awesome. He should have laid it on really thick. "You'll be a hero!" etc...

cubs getting some love from BA's prospect hot sheet...

2 cubs in the top 10...

nice find crunch

Holliman is looking awesome.

olney, rosenthal and levine have all said this week they think Z calls off negotiations this week.

Not good....

As far as I know, Ray and Mike Fontenot are NOT related.

Great re-cap, Trans.


BTW Brewer death spiral in full effect. 3 game losing streak and 4 of the last 5. They might not finish over .500...

cause they suck.

We can still win this division with 86 - 88 wins. That is still doable.

Don't worry, we kept ARam. We'll keep Z too if we really want to. It just may cost more.

weren't we supposed to "bank on" the death spiral on May 4th, a night in which they won 10-0 and including that game went on a 7-1 run? That proves that if ya wait long enough any prediction will come true.

oh yeah biz! well, then I predict the Cubs will win the World Series. Start the clock!

When does Lou try Theriot at SS and Fontenot at 2B? It will be the Cubs' "Government Cheese" double-play combo. You figure out the link.

Fontenot has a nice OBP and consistently makes solid contact, he can play in the big leagues.

Barring injury, you won't see this in the first inning. 6th at the very earliest. But probably never.

I predicted that the Cubs would win the World Series in 2004 following the 2003 Collapse, but we all know what happened then. We depended on Wood and Prior to actually pitch and Dusty Baker to actually coach. Some things just seem to piss me off for years, but I'm with you on this one Chad.

Let's start the clock over and begin counting the years of drought for WS victories from the time we got rid of Baker, not 1908.

Soriano Might Not Return to Leadoff

De Luca in the Sun Times speculates Soriano won't return to the lead off spot. Hmmm.

Interesting any way.

And the tie goes to the runner.

Ha, ha.

At what point are teams going to figure out that you don't run on Soriano?

Hopefully they don't and they keep trading runs for outs.

Not sure how to feel about Soriano's possible drop in the order. On the one hand, he's much better historically when hitting leadoff, so it'd be a shame to see a drop in production. His speed obviously would be much less utilized as well. However, it'd be nice to have a bit more OBP at the top of the order, saving Soriano's pop for the middle of the lineup.


"BTW Brewer death spiral in full effect. 3 game losing streak and 4 of the last 5. They might not finish over .500…"

You are kidding, right? They are still 25-14, they are still up 6 1/2 games, and have not suddenly traded Fielder, Hall, Hardy, Sheets, Capuano, and Cordero.

Theriot (Shortstop) and Fontenot(2nd Base) played togeather at LSU. Won't be too hard for them to remember the double paly combination.

Dr. Trans, you gotta keep up the game recaps. I laughed out loud at least 3 times reading it. Its comedy gold Jerry!!!!!!

Try the soup aaronB!!!!

Sori might not return to lead-off?

Lou is clearly in charge of this team.

Cf. Dusty Baker

At what point are teams going to figure out that you don’t run on Soriano?

Well... being that they did not learn last year even though he led the league in assists, I am not sure if they will ever learn.

How many assists is that now for Soriano? 4 or 5? Most of which have come since he's moved to LF.

FWIW, I say the place to bat Soriano is 5th. He can run all he wants to down there. And as good as he may be, he isnt a better hitter than Lee or Aramis. Batting Sori 3rd or 4th eliminates his running ability. Batting him 5th sets him up as a leadoff man for the Floyd/murton,Barrett,Jack Jones half of the lineup. Or you can bat him in front of Mike Fontenot to ensure that he scores every time he reaches base.

Did anyone hear why Donnie Veal got the win in relief last night?
He started off poorly, but seemed to right himself over his last 3 starts.

Interesting decision.

Apparently the plan would be for Soriano to hit 2nd. He'd still have a chance to run and his RBI opportunities would increase.

if not leadoff, where do you all think soriano would be best utilized in the order 2nd? fifth?

Batting 2nd would diminish his ability to run, one would think. He shouldnt be trying to run with DLee or Aramis up. That sounds ridiculous. Stay put when the sluggers are up. Asking them to take pitches and swing thru balls to give Sori a chance to steal defeats the purpose of them batting. Batting 5th allows him to protect Lee and Aramis. Yet still be able to steal his way into scoring position in front of Barrett and Jack Jones.

And along those same lines. That should be how Lou sells the move to Soriano. Sori really seems like a Pad the stats kind of guy. That is why he likes to lead off. He can swing for the fences and steal bases at will. He doesnt have to be bothered with situational hitting when he leads off. Batting 2nd or 3rd Sori would have to do menial tasks like............... I dont know............. shorten up and make contact............... Sac fly to score the runner from 3rd. These are things that Soriano hasnt shown much propensity for. Batting 5th it becomes less of an issue.

"FWIW, I say the place to bat Soriano is 5th."

Thank you for your wisdom aaronb. Just layoff the racist jokes.

Was there a racist joke in this thread?

Here's one, Ghandi,Bishop tutu and Paris hilton walk into a bar.....................

Re: Z pitching BP lefty

Supposedley, Nolan Ryan used to be able to throw 90+ with his left hand. I've often wondered if we'd ever see a "switch-pitcher" who could switch hands/gloves depending on who was batting. That would be sweet.

Long time lurker-seldom poster....
Trans, these recaps are fantastic. I don't get to watch many games due to hectic work/home schedule. These recaps constitute the bulk of how i get to follow my beloved Cubs. I understand the pressure it puts on you, but it's very appreciated by many folks you may not even be aware of.

Yeah, I've wondered about that, only in the "If the moon were made out of cheese, would you eat it" sort of mindframe. It would be pretty cool. If you blow one shoulder or elbow, you just use the other one(s)...

Yeah, trans. I really like the recaps. The parachat recaps are fun, especially when you were in the chatroom.

There is a pitcher for Creighton University in Omaha that is "amphibious" and switches from left to right during games. There was a pitcher named Greg Harris who bounced around for many years who could do the same. The rule states that you have to declair which hand you use prior to each batter. The same rule applies to switch hitters.

"Batting 2nd would diminish his ability to run, one would think."

I don't think there's much difference in batting 1st or 2nd when it comes to running. I personally think it's stupid in either case. If the 1st or 2nd place batter gets on base, your clean up hitter is going to get a chance to drive the ball. With the top of the order early in the game, the goal is to get a big inning. Stealing does nothing to further this goal. All stealing does is help the guy actually stealing the base score. So theoretically, when someone steals, they're playing for one run. I'd think you'd want your team all tugging on the same oar, rather than working towards different goals.

To me, the place where you'd want a basestealer is down in the lineup. If the 7th place hitter is especially speedy, it may help to have him steal a base if he gets on, since they only have the 8th hitter and the pitcher behind them and you'd rather have them standing on 2nd base when the pitcher gets a fluky bloop hit.

I'd bat him 4th between Lee and ARam. He could lead off the 2nd inning if the Cubs go 1-2-3.

CT Steve — May 16, 2007 @ 10:00 am
I’d bat him 4th between Lee and ARam. He could lead off the 2nd inning if the Cubs go 1-2-3.

I like it, we can bat Pitcher,Izturis and Blanco 1,2,3 to help ensure that it happens

I'd bat Soriano 6th. He doesn't get on base enough to warrant the number of PAs that the top of the line up gives you, he's down enough in the order than his basestealing might actually be of some use, and he's able to use his power to knock in the 3-4-5 hitters who will often be standing on 1st and 2nd when he comes to the plate.

than = that

soriano thinks when he's at bat? what's going on there?

hell, you can bat him 9th or 1st or 4th and he'll still sit in the front of the batter's box hacking. its what he does. foul, foul, foul, foul, foul, single/double/triple/homer/out...

thing is his contact doesnt always lead to outs in the OF and with runners on, esp. at 1st...esp. if its a slow runner at 1st...he's gonna lose some of those "legs" infield hits. he may still be on 1st when the play ends but he's got a shot at losing a "hit" when his DP counterpart is thrown out at 2nd.

im all for batting him 2nd and if it wasnt for dlee...batting 3rd...but its not like this is a safe middle order guy cuz his outs arent gonna be the type that will protect others on base. cant count on him to put it in the OF and off the ground with runners on if the situation dictates it.

Theriot with 3 more walks. Damn. The fact that we are even considering slotting anyone else in the leadoff spot is preposterous. Theriot is the business.

Yeah, I think it would be good to move Soriano to 2nd in the order. He does not have the speed that he came over with, due to his hammy, and so they might as well try to take advantage of his slugging a bit more, and he'll still see the benefit of having to be pitched to, with Lee and Ramirez behind him...

I doubt we're going to see our $136 million outfielder batting 6th. Probably not 5th either.

So much for the handshake agreement that Soriano would bat leadoff.

I believe the Expo's had a pitcher in late 80''s that was ambidexterous. And he had a special glove that allowed him to wear on both hands.

Also I think there is a rule on a pitcher throwing with both arms in the same inning.

We had a guy at Minnesota U who could throw 90+ left handed, then get it around mid-80s right handed. It's something to watch, because it's so rare.

Anyone who says Sori could have a better chance running if he bat 5th is a dope. You want to try hit-and-runs with Jones/Barrett? They can't do that now, what makes you think they will be able to do it with some expensive guy batting in front of them. Sori should bat 2nd where DLEE can move him. I trust Lee's ability to move runners than I do Jones or Barrett.

anything izturis can do with a bat furcal can do a streak.

3 games, 3 "4-hit" games in a row...

.228 to .297 in just 3 that's baseball. go stats go.


Why does Lee's ability to move runners relative to Barrett's/Jones' ability to move runners have anything to do with who they're moving?

By the way,

ability to move runners = slugging percentage

barrett/jones arent guys you can count on as much as dlee to actually make contact on a less than ideal pitch during the hit/run...

a failed hit/run...aside from the swing/ at least put the ball in play or foul it off.

"ability to move runners = slugging percentage"

not really...that's just a guage of how many bases you can take on a hit...triples skew the true power of a guy and a guy like adam dunn is NOT a hit/run type of guy.

adam dunn?

Doug Dascenzo — May 16, 2007 @ 9:38 am
Re: Z pitching BP lefty

Supposedley, Nolan Ryan used to be able to throw 90+ with his left hand. I’ve often wondered if we’d ever see a “switch-pitcher” who could switch hands/gloves depending on who was batting. That would be sweet.

Here you go:

That is awesome, Indy JJ. The description of what happened the first time he faced a switch hitter was pretty entertaining. I'm gonna follow this guy.

Pat Venditte has a 2.14 ERA, in 71.1 IP, 47 H, 20 BB, 72 K
Seems like he'd be worth a late round pick to me... If for nothing else, to give minor league fans a reason to come to the park. I would certainly pay to see something like this...

Crunch, I understand that DLee is a better hitter than either Barrett or Jones. The point I was trying to make is that this fact has nothing to do with the guy who is one base at the time. If anything, you don't want Soriano hitting in front of Lee, for the simple fact that he will not be standing on base waiting to be "moved" nearly as much as Theriot or Fontenot will.

And yes, SLG does equal moving runners. When the batter hits the ball a long way and runs around the bases, the baserunners are allowed to run around the bases too.

My belated "thanks" to Joe Ginto; I hope we'll hear more from you, in the future!

"And yes, SLG does equal moving runners."

that's useless info, though...just because a slugger can move a runner doesnt mean he's the guy who's perfect for a hit/run. if you hit your homers, but your consistency with the bat is in question...adam're putting up a risk running with him swinging on a hit/run.

you need more than slugging to make a decision...the number means little without ballance with how he hits outside of his final outcome. its the non-contact that will ruin the hit/run.

Why are you obsessed with hitting and running? There's no "artistic impression" or "required elements" in baseball.

It's cool to see a hit-and-run perfectly executed, but honestly, what's the point?

JACE= "The bullpen isn't that bad". 5/14/07

HORATIO: Dude - congrats on the seldom used word:


Love it!

Wow Horatio do you have shrine to Billy Beane or just a poster or two?

Your whole paragraph about why steals are not good was almost copied and pasted from Moneyball.

then your whole thing about Soriano should bat lower cause he makes too many outs. Wow, are you really Bill James? Are you just posing as Horatio?

you don't bat a 40 homer/40 steal guy lower in the order because of your worthless OBP stat. You want that guy to get as many at bats a possible. Won't you ever understand that OBP is just one stat that can be useful but is not the end all be all of baseball and by itself is totally worthless?

well if you dont think managers think about stuff like this youre ignoring a big part of the game.

and no, its not just OMG DUSTY DUSTY OMG OMG...

i didnt innovate or come up with this...its one of those factors that go into handicapping a game where a 35-40% success rate at the plate makes you a well desired player.

its a factor of the game and people use it to handicap their talents. there's great guys to run hit/run on and guys you dont wanna do that too much with.

its not about artistic impression or whatever...its just plain ol' baseball.

why do i keep losing comments on TCR...

this is the 3rd comment ive made in the past...oh, month or so...that didnt show up.

just wondering what im putting in my posts that's triggering a filter.

“artistic impression” has little to nothing to do with ordinary baseball.

picking a guy to hit/run on isnt new...isnt innovative...and is pretty common.

its just plain old baseball for the reasons described above.

Another long-time lurker chiming in. Greg Harris apparently pulled off the ambidextrous pitching trick in the majors with the Expos in '95 (
I vaguely remember a baseball card that had a picture of him holding up his custom-made 6-finger glove that could be switched to either hand, which I thought was just about the coolest thing I'd ever seen.

Anyone who says Sori could have a better chance running if he bat 5th is a dope. You want to try hit-and-runs with Jones/Barrett? They can’t do that now, what makes you think they will be able to do it with some expensive guy batting in front of them

Sjs, it isnt a rule that you have to hit and run to steal a base. Once upon a time they invented something called a "straight steal". In a "Straight steal" a runner can simply run to the next base during the pitch and as long as he beats the catchers throw. He gets to stay on the stolen base. Its pretty neat!

I have the "crunch" filter set all the way up...

I don't know, it's been catching a lot of valid comments lately and I have no idea why.

Re. ambidexterous pitchers: someone, earlier, posted a link to a NYT article, which, I am presuming (not bothering to find it again) was the link to their article about a Creighton U pitcher who is finding a great deal of success with the ambidexterous thing. What's interesting is that he's over-the-top as a righty, and a side-armer as a lefty.

"I don’t know, it’s been catching a lot of valid comments lately and I have no idea why."

Yet, it lets mine slip by all the time.

Yes Dr. Trans. It was a link to Greg Harris and a link to the Creighton pitcher

Yea... I have had some comments disappear also.

I am wondering if there is a time limit - i.e. you are only allowed one comment per 60 seconds or something like that. It seems that I run into problems when I make a couple of comments in a row.

The Creighton pitcher is Pat Venditte. See #72 and 73.

Well, Chad said "moneyball" (aka a book he hasn't read) so that must mean I'm wrong.

Seriously Chad, If you'd spend even a tenth of the time responding to the substance of my comments as you do making irrelevant statements about my supposed secret identity, we might have a real interesting discussion here.


"picking a guy to hit/run on isnt new…isnt innovative…and is pretty common."

Never said it was new or innovative or uncommon. I just said it was pointless and counterproductive.

The comment-bot seems to sense when I'm ranting and cuts me off. Sort of like my bartender...

"Well, Chad said “moneyball” (aka a book he hasn’t read) so that must mean I’m wrong."

Actually I have read that book. Cover to cover. And whether you worship Billy Beane or not, your rant about stealing bases is almost verbatim in that book. Now, don't get me wrong, you might get your ideas from Bill Jame's Handbook or otherwise, but it doesn't change the fact that your take on stealing bases is otherwise straight Sabermetric doctrine.

So? So save it. You come off in your posts like you work and wrote for Baseball Prospectus. You act like you have some advanced degree in Mathematics and it's Applications in Baseball. But your not.

You act like you have some advanced degree in Mathematics and it’s Applications in Baseball. But your not.

Can some one please interpret this in English?

What is the not that belongs to your?

And not what? He is not an advanced degree? I have never met a person who was an advanced degree...

I am confused...

"You come off in your posts like you work and wrote for Baseball Prospectus."

I'm sure I don't deserve it, but thank you very much for the compliment.

Still waiting for a coherent rebuttal to the views I've put forth in this thread. I am perfectly willing to be wrong. After all, being shown how I am wrong will only make me righter in the end. Saying "beane, beane, moneyball, bill james, mathematics, blah, blah, blah" doesn't exactly further intelligent conversation.

By the way, Bill James works for the 1st place Boston Red Sox. Doesn't sound like a crackpot flat-earther to me.

The article I posted above didn't say that, but I remember hearing that he had different motions from each side and threw different pitches too. I think that was in an ESPN article I read about him. I posted the NYT link cuz it showed his cool glove and had a video. It also mentions Greg Harris for the Expos like someone posted earlier, but said he was exclusively righty except for one game at the end of one season as a kind of stunt type thing.

Daily Double-

Thank you for the Greg Harris info, that's who I was thinking of.

My bad...I guess it was in the article I posted:
"Venditte is smoothly proficient from both sides. His deliveries are not mirror images of each other: as a right-hander he throws over the top and relatively hard, up to 91 miles an hour, with a tumbling curveball; as a left-hander, he relies on a whip-like sidearm delivery and a biting slider."

I'd imagine that pitching at a MLB level tires more than a guys arm. Which would mean that even an ambidexterous starter would have to rest 3 or 4 games anyway. Probably using two arms is best suited for relief.

I agree with AaronB that Soriano should bat 5th especially with how the lineup is turning out to be now and will be next year - for example:

Theriot, ss
E. Patterson, 2b
D. Lee, 1b
Ramirez, 3b
Soriano, lf
Pie, cf
RF of your choice (Murton, Floyd, or Jones)
Barrett, c

Soriano left 9 guys on base last night fwiw....

I realize his power is exciting in the middle of the lineup with Lee and Ramirez in front of him and it'll probably be for the good. But I'd actually trade less K's for less power in the middle of the order. Ramirez and Lee are set at 3 and 4 but you just can't bring guys in when you're whiffing. And I think Soriano will be even less patient in the middle of the order than he already is.

and most of these numbers don't mean much but..

Soriano is a career .250 hitter with RISP, 280 career.
227 with 2 outs and RISP.

and my personal observations from this year are that Soriano brings exceptional suck with men on (at least so far). You can almost guarantee the K or infield pop-up when he's up.

We'll see....

I'd rather have Floyd, Barrett or Murton in the 5 and 6 spots for the most part.

Maybe I'm not being clear here. I really wasn't trying to contradict your statement. I was saying that it wasn't very original, yet you come off so smug about it, like you thought of it yourself. Do you understand me now, cause I can't say this in numbers.

And riddle me this, Batman, why the hell isn't Bill James a GM of a baseball team? The Red Sox hired him as a consultant. Epstein values Jame's opinion but that's all. He listens to many people's opinions and then makes decisions. I think that's a smart idea. I would do the same. Blatantly ignoring Sabremetrics is moronic, but so is only using Sabermetics as your only evaluative tool. A smart guy, listens to everything then makes his own decision.


are you serious? while pounding out an angry post, I used poor grammar. But do you really not see what I'm getting at or just intentionally being an....being obtuse?

meh....280 is his career batting average in all situations if that wasn't clear.

No, I am not being obtuse.

But I am intentionally picking on you! :)

And more accurately, I am trying to make light of the fact that the same damn conversation regarding sabermetrics gets played out every day here. And your blanket attacks on anyone who dares bring up something related to statistical analysis is getting old also.

Ironically you say that too ignore sabermetrics would be moronic, yet you attack anyone any time they bring any "sabermetrics" into the conversation.


If you're not even trying to contradict my statement, then you must be targeting your venom solely at me personally, which is usually frowned upon here at TCR.

Plus, the part about the stealing down in the order being better than stealing at the top of the order - I did think that up for myself. Maybe somebody said it first, but I came up with that one on my own.

And re: your response to Dave, why on earth are you so angry???

while pounding out an angry post

And why are you angry about someone having a different perspective on baseball then you?

Just a guess, but it probably is not something worth getting angry about.


I'm not sure how this is done, but you'd probably need to determine whether the drop in BA is statistically significant.

His career OPS is 836 in 4361 PAs. His career OPS with RISP is 761 in 1012 PAs. His career BABIP is 308 with with RISP its only 278. Maybe its just a bit of luck? For what's it's worth, he has a 953 career OPS with men on 1st and 3rd.

Thank you baseball reference...

Fontenot = 1st ballot HOFer

Seriously, he's just as likely to succeed (more so, really) as any prospect we've had come up in a while.

hey I love sabermetrics as much as the next guy, but my wife probably could tell you that she'd rather have a 280 hitter up there over a 250 hitter especially with guys on-base.

and I know all the studies and what not that players will eventually "even out" over time in almost all situations.

he's pretty likely to get sent back down by this weekend actually...

dave, pick on me all you want. I don't mind.

But I think you miss my point. I can't stand people who regurgitate sabremetric principals and quote it like a bible verse. There is nothing wrong with Sabremetrics but people act like, the numbers say this so that is all that matters. Baseball, like life, is not black and white. Baseball is played by humans, who have emotions and a brain. So, solely playing the numbers in a baseball game is akin to playing computer baseball.

I will not stand by and let people assume something to be a truth because of statistical analysis. I often wonder (not trying to get theological here but...) if these same people believe in God. You can't prove God's existence with numbers. Unless you're that guy in the movie ∏, which is awesome. I will continue to challenge any and all stats only arguments and will attempt to persuade everyone that there is more to baseball than OBP.

As for you Horatio, call it a personal attack, call it whatever you want. When you post sentences like this:

"If anything, you don’t want Soriano hitting in front of Lee, for the simple fact that he will not be standing on base waiting to be “moved” nearly as much as Theriot or Fontenot will."

Is lock step Sabermetric thinking. You don't bother to look at the situation of this, only the number behind it. You also fail to realize that it's much harder to get Theriot or Fontenot home than it is Soriano. Soriano's legs make up for his lower OBP. He can steal second and get home on a single. Or, he will have an easier time scoring from first on a double. Walks are not the end all be all. If they were, they wouldn't intentionally walk people.

I guess he doesn't have enough "potential"...

If only he had another tool, maybe they'd see to letting him continue to get on base, work counts, draw walks and have great at-bats. If only his footwork were better.

After all, the Cubs don't want people who can play baseball, they want "athletes."

"I will continue to challenge any and all stats only arguments and will attempt to persuade everyone that there is more to baseball than OBP."

Good luck with that.

I love it. The same people who never saw Fontenot's call-up coming, are now prognosticating the imminent end of his ML career.

horatio...insted of dismissing people say and chalking it up to...whatever...

what's hard to understand about the concept of wanting a guy who can make contact in a hit/run?

you wanna send anyone but your speediest runner on a hit/run with a guy like adam dunn who has your personal "its okay" stat of slugging even though he's a swing and miss machine?


i mean, you dismiss point after point cuz you want to...because you dont wanna subscribe to the notion that this is not only baseball practice, but sound baseball practice.

if i suddenly decide the double switch is stupid and just say "cuz i feel like it" it doesnt mean the double switch is stupid, out of its time period in baseball, is worthlessly wasteful, etc.

the hit/run is more than a bunch of individuals and some numbers.

if you cant figure out why a guy with and inconsistant stroke who's not only a K threat, but gets a chunk of his hits with infield singles isnt a good hit/run guy...well, i dunno.

Crunch, the stolen base is a waste of time to a Sabremetrician.

hell, just wait til people look at marmol's numbers...declare him God part 2 and are surprised when he's wild.

lemmie dust this phrase off...

its not the number, but how you get that number that matters...especially in the minors.

I really like having Soriano in the middle of the order, hopefully when Lee comes back they put him in the second or fifth hole.


I think you are spot on Spongebob. That is how Aaron B would do it if he were running things.

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  • 1. Mets--because of the losses in the rotation
    2. Giants--because they're not the team they were BUT they maybe have bullshit even-year magic?
    3. Cardinals--because rivalry and not making the playoffs hurts them more than losing in the NLDS plus getting eliminated by them in the playoffs would make for horrible sports commentary next throughout next season.

    Charlie 24 min 42 sec ago view
  • Who's asking?

    jacos 26 min 34 sec ago view
  • #TeamEntropy

    CLE/DET rained out last night already, possible rain-outs in New York (vs. Baltimore), Boston(vs. Toronto) and Philly(vs. Mets) this weekend too.

    Not only games involving playoff spots that would need to be played, but any that involve home field advantage.

    Rob G. 35 min 23 sec ago view
  • I got the first one! Second one I'm not even sure what even/odd betting is.

    johann 1 hour 22 min ago view
  • any opponent preference for NLDS?

    Mets are down to 1 great pitcher instead of 4. Syndegaard may pitch Sunday which means if Mets win the WC game, he'd be set up for Game 1. There's a chance they clinch a spot by Sunday so he'd pitch the WC and then we'd probably get Colon for Game 1. They've certainly had the hottest bats over the last week and month out of the WC options.

    Rob G. 1 hour 43 min ago view
  • Rob Richardson 6 hours 47 min ago view
  • Can't teach height and thinness

    jacos 8 hours 43 min ago view
  • Hopefully Pirates don't call up A. Lincoln.

    jacos 18 hours 13 min ago view
  • j.buchanan going friday...should something like it.

    crunch 18 hours 20 min ago view
  • Wow. I didn't know they could do that.

    Nice for Willson, not so much for Addy.

    billybucks 18 hours 37 min ago view
  • Game is officially called...also officially a tie.

    Stats count, no make-up date of course.


    Rob G. 18 hours 38 min ago view
  • Yeah -- seeing the weather -- I hope KB and Rizz are inside, wrapped in blankets and drinking hot chocolate.

    billybucks 19 hours 25 min ago view
  • rain delay...thanks obama.

    crunch 20 hours 3 min ago view
  • Thanks again Phil. We actually were in Mesa and drove around. Hopefully, I am back for some Fall League. If not I have all of spring training (like the smart people who move here!)

    rvimpeny 21 hours 7 min ago view
  • What Rob G said.  I can't speak for Piittsburgh, but the other end of the state has had absolute crap weather for two days. Perfect day to take it easy.

    Transmission 21 hours 11 min ago view
  • tarp came off 10 minutes ago...let's do this.

    crunch 21 hours 25 min ago view