Game 39 Thread / Cubs @ Mets (4 of 4)

Game Chat Angel Guzman vs. Jason Vargas Lineups:
Theriot 2B Chavez CF
Pagan CF Gotay SS
Soriano LF Green RF
Ramirez 3B Delgado 1B
Murton RF Franco 3B
td>DeRosa 1B Newhan 2B Blanco C Castro C Izturis SS Gomez LF Guzman P Vargas P UPDATE: DeRosa must be feeling better as he was a late entry at first base.


no wright (franco at 3b!!)
no reyes
no easley

looks like a dusty getaway lineup for the mets even though they're staying at shea for the weekend.....let's hope lou doesn't do the same, the cubs salvage an OK road trip and meet up with Lee for the sox tomorrow.

hell, its a 1pm game after a game that went to 1am last night...hell, i'd expect fontenot to start at 2nd while theriot rests, honestly...or izturis rests...

that's just me...fontenot got robbed of an ab last night...lou pulling him from the on deck circle and putting pagan in before fontenot could take a few steps toward the plate.

hopefully aram/soriano will play today.

or not...

R. Theriot 2b
A. Pagan cf
A. Soriano lf
A. Ramirez 3b
M. Murton rf
D. Ward 1b
H. Blanco c
C. Izturis ss

…fontenot got robbed of an ab last night
and he woulda hit a 7 run homer, as Fonty's the only one who can.

I hope they stomp the Mets this afternoon and then kick the snot out of the White Sox all weekend.

Yeah, George! I hope that they go on to win every game left this season! An astounding 123 game winning streak!!

The only thing that Chuck Norris Mike Fontenot.

Mets seem to want to give us a game....

$20 virtual bucks says we don't take it.

I'm betting we hand them this game on a silver platter... They will visibly try to give us the game, and we will flat out refuse it....

you're on, rob...look for murton to break out in a big way today...i feel it in my bones

An MRI on Mark DeRosa's right hand found a small tear in the ligament under his ring finger on the palm side of his hand, but no fracture. DeRosa took some dry swings Wednesday.

DeRosa says it's just a matter of how much pain he can endure. Can't imagine that'll help his swing in any way.

I don't see how Lou could be making this strange enigmatic stance about where Soriano will hit when Lee returns withou planning on moving him down...
Why be like this if he is planning on putting him right back at 1???

Am I seriously the only person in chat, or is my chat application messed up today?

I have been a baseball fan since Gabby Hartnett was a Cub favorite and even I can't remember Franco as a rookie. I do remember that he came to the majors as a shortstop.

DeRosa Just got stuck at 1b where Ward was a little bit ago... I guess he's feeling better...

this is awesome...

Gotay has played 1 game at SS ever in his career....last night for an inning

Newhan played 2b last in 2000

Franco as has been mentioned has 5 career games at 3b

we're so going to lose this game.

Announcers criticizing Soriano's advertising on his black strips. Oh no...Soriano is single-handedly tarnishing the pure art-form that is baseball!

4 bb's to 17 K's for Guzman so far, that's nice.

re: DeRosa's MRI. The MRI showed a volar plate injury.

This is a sprain of the PIP joint (knuckle at mid finger).

The specific structure injured is the thickening of the bottom of the proximal interphalangeal joint's capsule to the ring finger. Basically, it's a hyperextension injury of the joint and is usually treated with early movement of the joint but blocking hyperextension with splinting. The structure that normally limits hyperextension is injured so if it heals too loosely it can lead to a specific pattern of imbalance of the tendons surrounding the joint with what is called a swan neck deformity. That usually doesn't occur unless the volar plate is severely damaged. Looks like he won't need the DL but it can take 1-2 weeks for the soreness to resolve.

For those of us who can't chat (blocked by work), how does Guzman look?

Here we go again. Cubs without a baserunner through three against Vargas.

2 hits in 12 innings against two back-end/non rotation guys.

what a bunch of stiffs.

So far, six of our nine outs have been fly balls or pop-ups. We're doing a good job of taking their infield out of the game.

Think anyone will try to bunt the ball toward the 48-year-old today, or has W. Randolph figured out that we played Dusty-ball before Dusty and will continue to play it?

fact. good question robr.

smallball anyone?

How soon until Aramis starts staring at weak ground balls he hits to short?

I don't think ARam could have gotten a double, but he certainly needs to run harder.

Stolen bases seem to be automatic. Have Barrett/Blanco thrown anybody out this season?

Angel Pagan!


Blanco has yet to throw out a runner in 5 attempts.

Barrett has thrown out a mere 5 runners in 24 attempts.

It's pretty amazing that we've only given up 24 steals.

boy, 2 run HRs are nice and all, but i just wish he hustled more.

Look what happens when you platoon Jones.

I'm praying for Angel Guzman to get his first mlb win, might happen with his guardian Angel Angel Pagan...and yes, my favorite baseball movie was the original Angels in the Outfield.

the kid: i see one over every players shoulder

Guzman is already out of the game after 75 pitches? What gives??

Len said Guzman hammy tighten up

Lou bitches and moans about taxing his bullpen, but he has a 4 run lead and takes out Guzman.

Guzman was certainly not hurt.

Rob G,

Still time for our heroes to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.......How do you think Lou is feeling about the bullpen holding the Mets for 4 innings? Like a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs I would imagine.........Wuertz, BB to first hitter in the 6th...........Will Guzman ever get his first 'W'.........stay tuned.

Wuertz walks a .140 hitter with a 4-run lead. Nice job.

Man, the last 5 spots in our lineup are one large, steaming pile of manure.

"Guzman was certainly not hurt."

He definitely looked hurt when he was doubled over at the plate clutching his hamstring.

Any further details on Guzman?

I think this year you can put a lot o the blame for stolen bases on the pitchers. There have been more than a few times where Barrett and Blanco haven't even bothered to throw down to 2nd because the pitcher let the runner get such a huge jump.

Good point, vorare.

Wow... Ohman lookin' sharp today.

yeah, Guzman was hurt. when he was batting he hit a foul ball and he didn't take one step out of the box before grabbing his right hammy. he promptly made an out and went back to the bench.

lou made a good decision to pull him out. i would've like to have stretched him another inning as well but it just wasn't prudent.

rothschild AND piniella on pregame radio basically admitted that teams can steal at will vs. hill and that he worries more about the runner[s] than the hitter when there are men on base - said advance scouting has caught up w/ hill in that regard and that they are giving him a crash course in slide step development...question: doesn't any of this fine point stuff EVER get addressed as prospects are climbing through the system?

Paging Sean Marshall.

God forbid anything happens to Aram.

"climbing through the system" AKA, The Road To Wrigley [hint, hint]

Dumpster making it interesting.



this cannot happen...

Throw STRIKES!!!

HP ump eric cooper used to work @ my pub while in college @ iowa state; he was well-treated - come on coop!

Ok...who's up in the bullpen??

flashbacks of dempster in '06 and hawkins before that...this is a season-defining moment - they practically conceded this game to us...

Scott Eyre comes in to save the day.

Man... our bullpen is in sorry shape.

i think Lou is going to burst some blood vessels

lose it in nine - don't go extras and pour salt in the gaping wound...

game, set and season...


Maybe next time Guzman....

jesus fucking christ

what a horrible loss


god this bullpen is the worst

I need a break from this teams.

$20 virtual bucks Wes R.....

man this is depressing.

Well, Rob G... I do believe that we called this...
See #8 and 9 in this thread... Not that I'm happy that I was right.

Where was the second baseman? Off the bat that looked like a double play ball.


Wuertz and Ohman were solid.
Eyre...I don't care how much he is making...he just has to go!!!! Seriously, he is worthless.

Dempster you know is a roller coaster. Why can't they find a decent effing closer....and then keep that closer?

We played a decent team and a very good team on this trip and were embarrassed. Great way to head into the weekend. We'll be lucky to take one.

I have no idea why you bring Eyre in there. Match ups be damned when someone is throwing as poorly as him.

They had Howry there who has been decent, especially compared to Eyre.

Dempster + irregular use = disaster. Eyre is just a disaster in general this year. This is incredibly frustrating.

It's simply impossible to contend with a bullpen performing like this. It doesn't help that the team stops scoring runs at certain points in games, but this is ridiculous. How does Dempster walk two guys when the lead was still mutliple runs?


So if Ohman is sitting everyone down 1-2-3, why not keep him in for the 9th to just close this game out and go home? Am I missing something here?

We will not win with Dempster as our closer. Ever. This guy sucks. Dusty just threw him in there, he has one good season and it wasn't really that good, and he has a shit year last year and I expect more of the same out of this guy. We need a new closer quick, who that is I don't really know. And I can't understand Eyre's problem. He looks like a different pitcher this year and that's not a good thing.

We had a potential closer w/Aardsma.

He's gone, and the only alternative I saw heading into the season.

Many of you (raise your hand) had penciled in Kerry Wood. That one worked out great, too.

FUCK Hendry.

FIRE Hendry!

I know i shouldnt even bother thinking about Kerry Wood but we arent going to win with this closer. thanks again dumpster

he has one good season and it wasn’t really that good, and he has a shit year last year and I expect more of the same out of this guy.

Actually he [Dempster] had a good year and a half, and the first year it was that good. And this year he has also been quite good.

Worst moves by Hendry in the last few years:

1) Signing Dempster to a THREE-YEAR/15.5M extension after a career 2005 season.

2) Trading Pinto, Mitre, and Nolasco for Pierre.

3) Signing Eyre to a 3-year/$11M contract.

4) Signing DeRosa to 3 years/$13M.

I can't believe we lost to the Mets' AAAA squad.

What a joke!

Fuck it.

Go D-Rays!!!!!

Then again... you all would be crying and saying the Cubs can't win if Mariano Rivera was the closer also...

As someone who has been badmouthing Pagan and Ohman--my bad. They both deserved to be heroes today in an important win.

I've also been badmouthing Dempster. This is positive if it means the Dempster experiment ends for good. What part of "a closer has to throw strikes" don't they understand? It's not just the walks, it's also all the 3 and 2 counts where he has to give in to the hitter.

Let's hope that Lou sees that tack-on runs are not the whole problem. The Mets looked like they would have scored any number of runs in the ninth today against Dempster, Eyre and probably Howry.

DEMPSTER always reverts to form. The numbers tell the story:

Last year: 4.80
This year: 4.66
Lifetime: 4.79

This is the kind of guy a smart organization would have traded after a good year.

On a positive note, the Cubs did manage to record an out in the 9th inning. Well done, chaps!

The problem is -- I don't see how it gets any better.

Save yourselves and get far, far away from this team.

I'm sorry....comparing Rivera to Dempster is no comparison at all. Perhaps we should be praising Dempster and Eyre?

How often does Mariano Rivera implode like Dempster did today?

As to #78:

Eyre placed on waivers for the purpose of his unconditional release or DFA.

Marmol and Rapada recalled from Iowa.

DeRosa placed on 15 Day DL.

In a non-roster move, Wuertz is the new closer.
Dempster moved to 7th innning set up role.

Last year, Howry would have been considered for the closer's role.

He can't get anybody out either.

Do you believe that Lou will just say "Fuck it!" and walk away?

At the beginning of the year, quite a few of you had already penciled in Woody (raise your hands!). Well that worked out great. We traded Aardsma, who at least has the potential to be a lockdown, fireball closer, and we're left with THIS shit! Cotts, Eyre, Howry, Dempster, and Oh-MAN!

We snared defeat from the jaws of victory three times on this trip, at least.

What a fucking embarrassment.

re: #902) Trading Pinto, Mitre, and Nolasco for Pierre.

Just a terrible move, but I think Dusty had something to do with that one after Hendry blew the Furcal deal.

What an atrocious display of baseball. Why can't this team just be good? I mean, fuck, I can't stomach the thought of another summer with no reason to give a shit about this team. Is it really that hard to build a team that can at least be competitive year after year? I'm not asking for much, I just want to remotely care about this team in August this year.

Exactly cwtp. Some guys can love Dempster all they want but the fact of the matter is, he is not a closer. He's a good and funny guy from my understanding but those qualities don't get the game saved. A stupid idea in the first place by Baker and it's coming around to bite Lou in the ass. But I expect Lou to shuffle things around if this happens again.

I'm for Wuertz as the closer.

He wasn't actually closing though.

Monday Wuertz blows the game by walking 3 straight, today he's the closer.


And Hendry was leading the Dempster to closer charge, not Baker in 2005.

How often does Mariano Rivera implode like Dempster did today?

Well.. lets see - he has three outings this year where he gave up at least 2 runs, while Dempster has two, including today.

On top of that, Rivera has a 6.37 ERA, while Dempster has a 4.66 era (including today).

Dempster has pitched quite well this year. Without today's game, his ERA is/was 2.37.

I think that they'll come up with some lame injury to Eyre, and put him on the 15-day DL. They'll call up Marmol. I don't think they'll do anything else, hoping that the others will see that they need to get it together.

As much as Dempster sucked today, he's looked solid so far this year and he's probably suffering from underuse (he last pitched four days ago, and then five days before that).

I think Eyre is the far bigger concern. The guy has just looked lost all season -- either throwing out of the zone or throwing BP. Combine that with his steep decline in the second half last year and you have to wonder if he's capable of gettin the job done anymore.

When future generations ask about how the Cubs could spend $300MM and still not be competitive in baseball's worst division, the answer will be "bottom of the 7th in Philly and the bottom of the 9th in NY. After that, we all knew."

Dempster now has 2 blown saves on the year, that would be as many as Trevor Hoffman, Bob Wickman and Mariano Rivera and less than Chad Cordero, Tom Gordon, Torres and Chris Ray.

Troy Percival's attempting a comeback, let 's bring him in.

I would guess Fontenot gets sent down to get back to 12 pitchers for tomorrow.

Vorare, I'm an expert at using the "Dempster excuse" that he needs a lot of work to stay sharp, but it's getting a little old. Isn't it his responsibility to keep himself ready? It's a high-maintenance closer that loses his effectiveness when you try to give him a few days' rest. I used to blame Dusty, now I'm going to blame Piniella? It's Dempster's own fault. He just doesn't have good control.

It's a little bit of a puzzle right now, what to do. Some people used to think Aardsma had closer stuff, but no point revisiting that.

Piniella will keep the Cubs around .500 until July when we can make some trades for relief pitching. I have a long list of players I'd like to trade, but teams that are buyers in July are not looking for players signed through next year, so we may be stuck with Jones and Blanco until July '08 and DeRosa until '09. (It's too bad we pay starter money to guys who are not widely seen as starters.) That leaves Floyd, Ward and Izturis as tradeable.

Frankly, I blame myself. I leave the chat and we're up two. I leave, we lose.

Actually my problem is, again, with Lou. You don't use your closer in non-save situations.

Recent comments

Subscribe to Recent comments
The first 600 characters of the last 16 comments, click "View" to see rest of comment.
  • I don't think his issue(s) will have anything to do with it. He hasn't hit since he's been back. Coghlan has the hot hand.

    Tito 22 sec ago view
  • I'm not a denier but definitely a skeptic on Strop and Grimm, who struggle with fastball control. Strop doesn't go near the ninth inning, and note how Grimm couldn't close the deal even with a 5-run lead. So Felix Pena comes in and gets the 3-pitch game-ending strikeout like it was nothing.

    And how about Almora missing that very catchable ball? That was unexpected after all the hype about his glove.

    When Trea Turner misses balls like that--which he does--I draw conclusions from it. It seems to be the one chink in his armor. But I'll give Almora another chance.

    VirginiaPhil 4 min 26 sec ago view
  • Assuming Soler is good to go, I think it comes down to 3 of the following 4: Coghlan, TLS, Sczcur, Almora. Of the 4, TLS seems to be the hardest to justify, particularly given his behavioral issues.

    billybucks 9 min 54 sec ago view
  • I'm wondering if both Coghlan and LaStella make it. With Javy being able to play all the infield spots and Joe maybe wanting late-inning D when Soler plays (assuming he plays), hence either Szczur or Almora, I think LaStella might be the odd guy out.

    Tito 12 min 53 sec ago view
  • Hendricks needs the win, anyway, plus a couple more.

    My hunch is that Hendricks wins the Cy Young . . . for Lester. That is, without Hendricks tipping the scale toward the Cubs, Scherzer tops Lester.

    VirginiaPhil 26 min 2 sec ago view
  • Old Cub fans remember when Ken Hubbs died at 22 in the crash of a small plane he was piloting in a storm in Utah in 1964. But Hubbs was not an elite power pitcher like Score and Fernandez. Score lived a long time after the accident but it was (effectively) career-ending.

    VirginiaPhil 29 min 38 sec ago view
  • HAGSAG: Since I've only seen them throw in one game and in one "live" BP session, all I can do is provide initial first impressions.

    Brailyn Marquez is listed at 6'4 but is probably more like 6'5 or 6'6. I would describe him as a younger version of Bryan Hudson, throwing a ton of ground balls but not getting a lot of swings & misses (yet). Because of his size he could eventually grow into more velocity, but right now he's mostly a pitch-to-contact guy. He generally throws strikes.

    Arizona Phil 35 min 7 sec ago view
  • Phil, do Marquez and Ocampo look like prospects?

    Hagsag 4 hours 19 min ago view
  • It helps when your defense has declared war against the H in WHIP.

    Still impressive.

    John Beasley 4 hours 21 min ago view
  • Lackey finishes with a 3.35 ERA. Currently good for 13th in the NL. Not bad for a guy signed to be a #3 starter in a 15-team league.

    He is also 6th in WHIP. Pretty amazing: Cubs have the #2, #3, #5 and #6 starters in WHIP.

    billybucks 11 hours 16 min ago view
  • Completely meaningless game, but Pena striking out Sean the Turd to with the bases loaded was very fun.

    Other than one bad game in SD, Pena has been very good. Even with that game, 9.0 IP, 13 K, 0.89 WHIP.

    billybucks 11 hours 20 min ago view
  • 101 wins...most since 1910 (104).

    neat. ...or sad. pick one. pick both. 'murica.

    crunch 11 hours 36 min ago view
  • Just looked up Grimm's stats -- after a great run, he gave up 2 runs vs. MIL then didn't pitch for 10 days. Don't remember why?

    billybucks 11 hours 38 min ago view
  • Sean Rodriguez's helmet looks like it's taking a dump

    jacos 11 hours 42 min ago view
  • Grimm not doing himself any favors lately re: making the playoff squad. Seems to have lost the feel for his curveball.

    billybucks 11 hours 47 min ago view
  • j.grimm is literally worse than hitler.

    felix pena, your turn.

    crunch 11 hours 49 min ago view