Game 50 Thread / Marlins @ Cubs (2 of 3)

Game Chat Dontrelle Willis vs. Jason Marquis Lineups:
Amezaga CF Soriano LF
Uggla 2b Izturis SS
Ramirez SS Lee 1B
Cabrera 3B Ramirez 3B
Willingham LF Murton RF
Hermida RF DeRosa 2B
Oiivo C Barrett C
Boone 1B Pagan CF
Willis P Marquis P
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Comments

just a little preemptive strike here...

Izturis 6 for 9 with a BB against Willis

He also has like a 1.508 OPS against him also.

and of course, he'll lay an egg.

yeah probably, alright everyone start complaining about the lineup so we score some runs tonight.

Aaron Boone = not dead? Interesting.

Bah to the numbers ... Izzy to the 8-ho.

Ok I'll start the complaints.

What!? No Riot?

Took my 10-year old son to the Cubs Care event today, where you get to walk on the field, snap photos and get Lou and the players to sign a baseball. We stood in line behind a five-year vet of the event, who explained that, in prior years, boo-targets such a LaTroy had skipped the event.

To his credit, Eyre was there, smiling and signing baseballs. After saying many, many bad things about him recently, it was hard not to wish him better days ahead when seeing him in person. Jacque was soft-spoken and polite, and thanked us for coming. Soriano seemed very shy. Izzy had a big smile for my son.

Just a quick reminder that these guys are somebody's son, father, brother, husband, best friend, etc. Boo the performance, not the person. The seemed, mostly, to be a very decent bunch of guys.

Barrett, by the way, is a riot -- a million great stories about running into White Sox fans in bars and restuarants.

Holy Houdini act by marquis in the 2nd...

DeRosa's day to be stupid on bases, goddamn straight Fontenot would never do that!!!!

and now Barrett....

sheesh...

WOW, WHAT AN INNING

This just highlights the narrowmindedness of Cub officials, I believe--they might go for players such as Jacque Jones and Mark DeRosa who put up generally decent numbers at the plate, but they tend to overwhelmingly ignore the element of a player's grasp of the fundamentals of baseball. You can teach little kids fundamentals, but at some point guys divide themselves into those with a knack for how to play the game correctly, and those with a lesser idea of what they're doing on the field...unfortunately the Cubs tend to land the latter types (the inability of most Cubs to learn as an established professional is highlighted by their current performance in light of Bobby Dernier's spring training stint as a special baserunning instructor). I am convinced we will not win anything significant until this trend of picking up players who don't know the fundamentals of the game is reversed.

Maybe our problem is our players are just stoopid.

cubswinthepennant
it takes an entire new level of stupidty to get picked off second by the catcher. i can see first and 3rd but 2nd, thats really hard to do

NL All-star voting to date is out. The team would be:

C- Loduca
1b-Poohlus (Lee is in 3rd also trailing Jabba Jr.)
2b-Utley
SS-Reyes
3b- Wright (Ram is 5th in voting, we need a Neifi like drive for him)
OF- Beltran, Satan,Sori( he would be getting a RF audition)

Wonder what kind of numbers old Lucifer would actually put up at the plate could he play baseball. I'm guessing they'd be scalding...

Absolutely. Those Penn alumni can be such morons. Seriously though that was a pretty moronic move. At least if Barrett's hit was more up the middle then I could let it go, however it was straight to Hanley. Just dumb. As much as I like the guy, and aside from his plate discipline, Murton has among the worst baseball instincts I've ever seen from an American born Cub player.

What happened in the game? I'm not watching.

Didn't DeRosa come from the Braves system? No one's allowed to be dumb out of that system, damnit!!!

and you know who's good? Derrek Lee!!!

as for what happened, Barrett hit a sharp grounder to the SS with DeRosa at 2nd, play was well in front of him and he tried for third, out by plenty.

Then after a bb, Barrett got picked off second base by the catcher.

D-Lee solo shot in the first, Soriano and D-Lee doubles in the third, 2-0. Cubs probably should've scored in the 2nd but dumb baserunning gaffes by DeRosa (who, being at second base with 1 out, runs to third on a ground ball to Hanley Ramirez at short and gets tagged out easily) and Barrett (who gets picked off 2nd base by the catcher, Miguel Olivo) prevented anything from happening.

Sorry, hadn't seen Rob's post before I sent mine.

Ugh.

1b-Poohlus (Lee is in 3rd also trailing Jabba Jr.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
you mean Prince Fielder?

I assume Satan is Mr. Balco ay

It took me a long time to figure out the Satan one as well.

Good call on Jabba Jr.

What does PoohLUS mean?

How did D Lee get a ground rule double? Ivy? Has there ever been a ground rule double that bounces into the bleachers, that would be a hell of a bounce.

IFC,

Yes on both counts.

I've been around this game for a minute or two.

I've known baseball players,and was one myself, for the better part of two decades. I can pretty much guarantee that I can count on two hands the number of them that I know that are not stupid. I don't belive that's a gross over-generalization, either.

Ballplayers are still a few outs away from the perfect game, if you catch my drift. For some reason, ball players are dumb. I just can't understand it. The ability to make rational decisions in between the lines is missing on most players. They do stupid things like try to run to third on a ball HIT RIGHT TO THE SHORTSTOP. He's learned that 200 times since he was 6. Not Lou's fault. Not the baserunning coach's fault. His fault.

I guess the Cubs just have a knack for signing the dumb ones.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

i hate you, bullpen!!!

On a continuation of that thought:

Hey, Wuertzy, on a warm night with next to no wind, let's climb the ladder with a fastball against a power hitter with the bags full.

What about that seemed like a good idea?

Augh -- after The Riot's HR, and with the energy in the ballpark, I thought for sure the Cubs would come back and win this one.

With the bullpen, it's a different culprit nearly every night. Amazing. And, unfortunatley, un-fixable. You can' t replace an entire bullpen.

June1...June1... nice round number for 'a date to give up any interest in this team'. I'm only sorry for having wasted so much time actually paying attention to ST this year, gleaning little glimpses of the season-to-come. Were there serious signs of bullpen inadequacies in ST?

plus, they all know that both lou and jim "have their backs", so there's absolutely no accountability unless you're neal cotts.

Last year, the official death knell for the season came with the words: "Swept. At Home. By The Marlins." I fear history IS repeating itself.

If Hendry can't even buy a .500 ballclub with $300MM, he needs to go. This is rapidly becoming ridiculous.

I'm actually surprised that Fielder has received that many votes. Not because he doesn't deserve it, because right now he should be the starter, but that that many people voted for a small market player since it doesn't usually happen unless said player would be starting in his home park. Russ Martin should be the starting catcher, Miggy Cabrera at third, but Soriano shouldn't even be a reserve considering he's the biddest disappointment this side of the bullpen, but hey at least we'd have one all-star. Although he doesn't deserve it, I'm sure Pujols will get the top vote so if Fielder makes the squad I'm not sure D.Lee will get in over say Adrian Gonzalez or Howard if he continues to rake unless Lee picks up the HR pace.

C'mon lou wake the f up!!

"June1…June1… nice round number for ‘a date to give up any interest in this team’."

don't worry, Dave in Pitt. You will be teased once again with a modest winning streak when it is too late.

I am getting to the point where I may WANT them to continue losing so that Fitzsimmons with just fucking fire everyone and let Rick Wilkens finish the season as GM.

I really didn't believe in "curses" - but there is SOMETHING abot this ownership, the management, the team as constructed, the entire farm system. It is disgusting.

you can't put the bullpen failure on Hendry. No one could have predicted Howry and Eyre would both fall this fast. I think Howry will turn it around here soon, his velocity is getting back to normal, 93-94 over the last couple days if the Comcast gun was accurate. Plus Hendry would've had no other options. The free agent market was slight, just ask the Phillies or the Mets on the Schoenweis multi year deal or the O's with Baez and Williamson et al. Lou deserves a lot of the blame for this mess too. Ohman should never face a righty unless it's a blowout. He also has pulled the starters too early as well, as in the case with Hill on Sunday.

Meh, I'm already at the point of checking box scores every other day.

Lou-
"might have been the worst game of the year."

Still early.

you can feel better about the Cubs bullpen by watching the highlights of tonight's Benitez meltdown vs the Mets. Giants up 4-3 in the 12th. Bottom of the 12th, Benitez walks Reyes to start the inning. Balks him to 2B. Reyes talks 3B on a sac bunt then Benitez, then balks Reyes home to tie the game. Next batter is Delgado who promptly yanks one off of the scoreboard to win it. That's even uglier than Wuertz's meltdown tonight.

2-5 hitters tonight:

2-17 (.117) 1 HR 2 RBI 1 BB 5 K

It's still a pig

"Ohman should never face a righty unless it’s a blowout. He also has pulled the starters too early as well, as in the case with Hill on Sunday."

Bullshit.

I was at the game in LA Saturday - he had a K and got Kent to hit into a DP.

The game was not a blowout, as you know.

I know HRs can be an overrated stat but still....

D.Lee, Soriano, Jacque, Floyd, Murton - 11 HRs

Sosa - 10 HRs

yeah Lou, it "might be our worst game of the year".

Lou what do you think of Barrett getting picked off of 2B- "not a good play...not a good play....not a good play".

Classic.

What time is the Tigers game on tomorrow.....Sheffield is en fuego.

no worries on Barrett's baserunning blunder...he just promised "it won't happen again".

110 games left for it not to happen again.

"110 games left for it not to happen again."

Oh, is it the same for passed balls?

baserunning gaffes, passed balls, and brain cramp throws behind lead runners in close and late ballgames...

check

From 04-06:

Eyre v. RH: 237/327/377
Ohman v RH: 239/349/369
Cotts v. RH: 235/341/401

Just some food for thought.

Ohman's numbers are getting better in the last week. Scotty, not so much. 407/467/852 AGAINST LEFT.

I still have no idea what has happened to Ward. I would think he'd have been the perfect candidate to PH for Izzy instead of Floyd.

Of course, real teams don't have to PH for their #2 hitter, but real times don't put someone like Izzy in the #2 spot.

And further proving my point, Floyd has a lifetime .172 AVG pinch hitting. Does Lou even look at stats at all?

Izturis in the 2 hole???

And people thought Lou was going to be so different from Dusty... HAHA

I missed the memo when putting a guy who's a career .667 hitter against that night's starter in the two hole was something Dusty would do.

oh my apologies E-man. I had no idea you went to the game on Saturday in LA, or can I figure out what that has to do with anything. What, we couldn't see it on TV? Ohman K'd Kent, ok that was nice. I however was going on the bigger picture such as two little lines like these

vs L - 136/269/182
vs R - 286/333/500

but hey, hold onto the memory of that one strikeout.

"billybucks
Last year, the official death knell for the season came with the words: “Swept. At Home. By The Marlins.” I fear history IS repeating itself."

The Marlins didnt sweep the Cubs last year at home

Johann, you can thank Jim Hendry for this, in his attempt to build depth, he created a mess, and most likely told 4 players they were going to be the starting outfielders

New Manager...CHECK
Missing signs...CHECK
Bad Baserunning....CHECK
Bad Bullpen...CHECK
#2 hitter with a career sub .300...CHECK
Not playing youngsters...CHECK
Same old shit...CHECK

I missed the memo when putting a guy who’s a career .667 hitter against that night’s starter in the two hole was something Dusty would do.
___________________________________________________

Hooray small sample size. 9 ABs does not proof make. IF you have to play Izzy, you still cannot bat him 2nd. That is just moronic, especially with DeRosa playing so well right now.

Of course, Lou doing moronic things doesn't make Dusty any better.

Wuertz for Closer?

we off that bandwagon?

Pirates are in 2nd place now....

IFC,

MIL is doing well in the voting. Hardy is second at SS, Hall is in the top 6 of OF Voting, and Weeks is like 3rd or 4th among 2b. They do have a passoniate fan base. The low numbers for the Cubs are (especially Ram who has been the best 3b in the NL so far) is suprising.

E-man,

Its Tim Wilkens unless you want 90's Barrett as the GM. Anyways you do not want scouts to be GM. You want former players with Buisness related degrees (John Paxson, Billy Beane). A scout has one job find talent. You need someone who knows how to the most talent for the fewest dollars in the GM job.

Rob G

Wuertz gave up some bombs on Friday night which wouldve been gone in any other park.

I wish i could say he was pitching to conditions but i doubt it

Levine reiterated on his show Sat that Hendry had a deal for Jacque in place during the off-season but Lou stepped in and talked Hendry out of it. Levine wouldn't bite on who Jones was almost moved to, nor who was coming back in return but knowing Hendry's tendancies it was probably a deal for the next David Crouthers

Chipper Jones has a 1.017 OPS, Cabrera has a .949 OPS and Ramirez has a .903 OPS and is getting smoked in OBP by the other two. It's not like ARam hasn't been doing well, but he isn't the best NL 3rd Basemen right now.

True, Johann, I'm just as much of a believer in not putting all of your eggs in a 9 AB sample size basket.

That said, success against an All-Star lefty with a deceiving windup is still success.

And whether it's right or wrong, measuring a player's success against a pitcher is a little different for a manager than whether or not the player sucks.

Skipper looks at the stats against the pitcher. "Hey, this guy hits him well. I'm hitting him at the top of the order." and that's the conversation. Most managers think being successful in 9 or 10 AB's is enough of a sample to say whether or not the guy can hit a given starter.

Make your own judgement.

Johann,

Aram leads NL 3b's in Hhmers, RBI's, hits, and triples. He is also having the better fielding season bewteen him, Chipper, and Cabrerra. Those 3 are in a virtual tie for being the best third sacker in the NL. They all deserve to be ahead of the Jeter of Queens. It should be embrassing to Cubs fans that were not rewarding one of the few guys who is playing up to his potential with All star votes. He is in 5th place trailing the JOQ by 400 K votes.

chifan3887

its not embarissing, its the ho hum attitude towards a team that has under achieved.

Agreed Chifan,

its bullshit.

Only a Sabrehead could possibly write this:

"Chipper Jones has a 1.017 OPS, Cabrera has a .949 OPS and Ramirez has a .903 OPS and is getting smoked in OBP by the other two. It’s not like ARam hasn’t been doing well, but he isn’t the best NL 3rd Basemen right now."

Aram has more RBIs than both of them. More homers than Wright. Tied in homers with Jones. Better batting average than Wright and only .010 behind Jones. And you think that OBP means anything. What a freaking joke. Oh, yeah, its that OBP that makes you a great hitter. And before you tell me that RBIs are team dependent, the Braves and Mets have better team OBPs that the Cubs. So why does ARam have more RBIs? Huh? That's just crazy.

The only mistake Hendry made constructing this team was that he forgot he was in the National League and picked up a bunch of DH's: Floyd, Ward, Merton, Jones, Ramirez, Soriano, Barrett. These guys are brutal with the leather.

I'm am beginning to believe you can add Lee to that list. Tonight he was brutal. A grounder went off his glove (scored a hit?) and a ball in the dirt went off his glove into the stands. Jesus, Derrick if you can't stop it just let it hit you.

And Barrett??? Tonight's base running mistakes were bad. But a *catcher* getting picked off second!!! And he then let the opposing catcher steal second. The Marlins saw the same thing I did. Barrett can't throw anyone out,because he double clutches every throw.

But I say enjoy the season. The Cubs have already achieved "fun" bad.

Hi Cursed (Sox fan). Please refrain from posting here anymore. If you want to come over here and discuss actual baseball and act like a person who has a shred of an idea about the Cubs, fine. But until then, SHUT THE HELL UP!

Playing Izzy's numbers v. Willis, using Eyore against a lefty...

If we wanted the team run by a computer, we could have gotten one much cheaper.

And better.

The point is use need to put the number in context...of the general suckitude of both these players.

Pirates in second behind Milwaukee? Wow, this division blows. Too bad the Cub's can't take advantage of that, getting dominated by such gems as the Marlins & Padres.

Any ideas on fixing the Bad News Cub's?

Here are mine:

1. I know Eyre "feels fine", but DL him anyway until he gets some life back into his pitches. Pick up Meadows or Micelli to mop up.

2. Trade Izzy for PTBNL. Call up *shudders* Patterson and start him at 2B.

3. Batting order: Patterson 2B, Soriano LF, Floyd RF, Ramirez 3B, Pagan CF, Lee 1B, Barrett C, Theriot SS

I just realized I don't have Jones or Derosa starting... lol...

Okay, Derosa can fill in for anyone taking an off-day and Jones can cover for Floyd when he gets injured.

Floyd, Ward, Merton, Jones, Ramirez, Soriano, Barrett. These guys are brutal with the leather.

I will give you Floyd, Ward, and even Barrett. Thought I believe that Barrett is better than people think, but still not very good.

Jones is far from brutal in the field. He just has an inaccurate arm. But he does have very good range. Ramirez has been very good defensively, and it vastly improved from the years where he was "brutal." Soriano has good range and a great arm, bu he is still learning how to play the outfield. Those of you who played little league may think it is easy to play the outfield, but it is still a learning process to play a position that you have never played before.

But that fact that you include Ramirez in a "brutal defensively" list shows that you have not watched the Cubs in about four years.

And to say that Lee isn't even a good defensive player because of one game? You have to be kidding me. The grounder that "went of his glove" was a ball that he had to dive for. It was a play that would not have been made by 90% or more of major league first basemen. And the throw? Yea... it is a play that lee could have made, but that error was on A-ram, not Lee.

This would be my everyday lineup:
Theriot
DeRosa
Lee
ARam
Soriano
Floyd/Murton (against rhp/lhp)
Jone/Pagan (against rhp/lhp)
Barrett
Pitcher

That is a team that can and will score runs. Izzy should never be in the starting lineup - he simply hasn't performed well enough to deserve it, and the riot is clearly capable of playing SS in the bigs. I would prefer for Murton to play everyday, but Floyd is a good enough hitter to deserve at-bats. But ideally Murton would play everyday, even against rhp.

That's right on, dave, Theriot has simply earned the starting job at SS. It's surprising his lack of range at SS with his scrappiness and all, but given the offense lately, I'd concede range at SS for his bat.

Floyd didn't hit for Isturiz in the 9th last night, he hit for the pitcher who was in the 2 hole after Theroit hit in the 8th and stayed in the game---its bad enough the Cubs stink, now these comments are getting like the team--get the facts right

"Just a quick reminder that these guys are somebody’s son, father, brother, husband, best friend, etc. Boo the performance, not the person. The seemed, mostly, to be a very decent bunch of guys.

Difference between Lou and Dusty is that Izzy got a shot at batting second, while Dusty would have had Izzy batting second for two months.

How many of you guys still really care about this team at this point? I mean, how many of your actually get upset each night as yet another game is lost? It would be brutal to be in that mode with this team.

Jason Stark was on ESPN this morning talking about the Cubs and his observation was that this team is just amazing in its ability to find new, unusual ways to lose games day after day. He wondered aloud if this team isn't picking up on internal seething that supposedly is going on inside Lou and playing as though the team were walking on egg shells.

Does this team have any sort of positive team chemistry. I thought we were getting there a few weeks ago but it seems to be totally gone. What is going on in the clubhouse, do you suppose? Is there a player on this team making an impassioned speech about this team needing to step it up? Or are these guys all "professionals" who don't need that sort of emotional outburst?

For no particular reason other than to make me feel better. If Aaron B were in charge this is what we would see:

Ss Theriot
Lf Murton
1b Lee
3b Aramis
Rf Soriano
C Barrett
Cf Jones/Pagan against all LHP
2b DeRosa

Bench

Blanco
Floyd
Ward
Izturis
Pagan/Jones

Z
Lilly
Marquis
Hill
Marshall

Dempster Closing

Guzman
Wuertz
Howry
Marmol
Ohman
Cotts

Eyre sidelined with back spasms. It really shouldnt take til june to at least attempt this allignment should it?

These are AAA-only stats. Who was a better hitter coming out of AAA?

DeRosa:
975 AB, 6 HR, 283/341/372

Fontenot:
904 AB, 20 HR, 300/384/471

Patterson:
234 AB, 8 HR, 333/384/513

Virgina Phil... I honestly don't really care who was a better coming out of AAA - I care about who is a better now.

DeRosa has clearly changed his hitting approach since he first joined the bigs, which makes him a better hitter now.

Compare Kevin Orie's AAA numbers coming out with anyone.

I'm sorry, CT Steve, that you think that a manager using statistics, in even the smallest of sample sizes, is a bad idea.

I'm not attempting to put you down here. I'm not trying to say you're right or wrong. But right or wrong, that's the way baseball managers operate.

That's the way managing a baseball team works. That might be the wrong way to go about it. But every manager at every level does it. You might think that's stupid and that's fine. I see the same thing in my manager's office everyday. And every manager's office I've been in as a player and now as a broadcaster. Lou, as any manager does when he offense is bad, is reaching for anything right now. Nothing's working. We're not scoring. I think we all agree that running the same lineup out there night after night and getting 7 hits and losing 5-3 isn't the best way to go about it.

Lineup construction is important, but what happens when no lineup he can construct is hitting? Hell, Izzy hit that guy well. In 9 AB's, true, but there are guys who don't have 6 hits against the D-Train in 30 AB's. I'm not an Izturis defender. I personally don't want him out there any day. But if you're going to play him with Theriot slipping, you have to put him in a situation where he can help you win.

dave said: I care about who is a better now.

A better fan (GM, manager, etc.) would care who is going to be better next year and beyond.

Oh, I keep forgetting. This is our year.

I'm gonna say Fontenot is the best because of the 20 HR's and the fact that he is God in baseball cleats.

A better fan (GM, manager, etc.) would care who is going to be better next year and beyond.

Ah yes... you are a better fan than me. I see. Or you just don't understand what I am trying to say.

Sure... a GM does need to consider potential; I definitely don't disagree with that point.

What I meant to say is that DeRosa is a very different player now than he was in the minors, which is why I do not care about DeRosa's AAA numbers.

Once again... I would be shocked if Fontenot could produce an OPS over 800 if he got extended playing time. That is what DeRosa has done over the last year and a half. The amazing thing is that DeRosa still has a .822 OPS this year with a poor batting average.

I would love to be wrong on this one...and I will admit it if I am. I just do not see Fontenot out producing DeRosa this year or over the life of DeRosa's contract (i.e. three years).

If it's any consolation the 2005 Astros were 18-32, 15GB and in last place on May 30. It's really the only thing we have right now; Hendry's not going to blow up the team and commit harikari, for some reason.

The point is, why exactly did we need to spend $15 mil for DeRosa? Don't forget, he was signed to replace Theriot at second, quite apart from Fontenot and Patterson.

And Jacos, is Kevin Orie the only guy who ever put up good numbers at AAA? Does he invalidate the practice of evaluating people by their minor league performance?

Kevin Orie's case is pretty odd, to look at the numbers. I've heard a lot about the Cubs rushing Corey Patterson and have become skeptical about that sort of thing, but Orie looks like the guy they didn't let grow up at all. They give him 364 at bats in the majors in '97 after he had has about 50 at AAA and only about 300 at AA. And he still does okay in those 364 at bats. The next year he hits a wall and they trade him. What were they expecting?

Fonenot's mature, not comparable. E-Pat less mature, but not a kid, either.

Maybe we can convince Miguel Tejeda to dress up like Twinkie The Kid for a photo op, that will get Hendry's attention for sure!

Sorry, it had been awhile since we had some good Hendry fat jokes.

VA Phil... you have still yet to tell us what Fontenot brings to the Cubs that would be better than DeRosa.

ZHL-

The Miracle Astro's of 2005 and the Magical Marlins of 2003 have been thrown about for the last two years regarding the slow starting Cub teams.

And I would yell about anyone bringing it up during those two years, but......
there is good starting pitching this year, and the division sucks donkey balls.

So I will hold out hope a little longer, but this is getting ridiculous.

How many of you guys still really care about this team at this point? I mean, how many of you actually get upset each night as yet another game is lost?

I would if I watched. Nowadays I find out about how the team did by reading the comments on TCR the following day. It's the equivalent of watching a horror movie through your fingers.

I take it they lost last night?

dave,

1) more power, 2) a lefty bat, 3) a career path for Cub prospects, good for organizational morale

On the downside, probably not as good a glove, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, you'd be trading Fontenot next year to make room for Patterson, but you'd be trading an ML guy, not a PCL guy.

DeRosa is untradeable. Hendry made sure of that by giving him 3 yrs.

DeRosa is a proven vet. Fontenot isnt. Just another in a long line of decisions made by the cubs front office, where selling a "name" player to the ticket buyers is easier than giving a kid a shot to play. Re-signing Blanco to that ridiculous extention is the same animal. Trading Maddux for Izturis instead of a Joel Guzman type prospect is another example. As is signing Cliff Floyd to play left. For someone with a scouting and development background. Hendry really and truly has ZERO trust in any of his homegrown talent.

Exactly, Jacos. The fact that it's May 30 and it's conceivable that the Bucs have a legit shot to win this division says a whole lot.

So a team with as much "talent" as the Cubs, that has underperformed as much as the Cubs, is clearly not KO'd yet.

Bleak? Clearly. But someone still has to win the Central. Milwaukee's learning that you can't win the division in April. Houston? Pittsburgh? St. Louis? Make a case that any of those teams has a much better shot than the Cubs.

I wish I could blame it on Lou ... I really hate the way this team approaches the game and situations within ... but I could say that about every manager I can clearly remember with the Cubs. But the players need to do the job and need someone to light the fire.

Best moment of the season still was in Cincinnati when Lou came out to the mound and gave Dempster his "pep talk" ... a few more of those might be what this team really needs.

In ARam's case, if you're going to care about team dependent stats like RBIs, Cabrera has more runs then ARam (31 to 26), so the difference in HRs becomes meaningless.

Past that though, Cabrera is beating ARam in AVG, SLG, OBP, OPS, AVG w/ RISP, AVG w/ runners on, everything pretty much.

So Cabrera is getting on base more (walks and hits), hitting for more power, scoring more runs, hitting better when people are on base.

Again, none of this is to say ARam isn't a good player, but this eyes wide shut focus on HRs as your judge is silly.

1) more power,

More power? Seriosly?

2) a lefty bat,

I don't really care about the side of the plate they hit from - I care about how well they hit lhp/rhp.

3) a career path for Cub prospects, good for organizational morale

You don't move up a player just because he is a Cubs prospect. You move up a player because he is going to be better than what you have, or at least has the potential to be better than what you have.

From everything that I have read, DeRosa is definitely the better defender, and is also a lot more versatile.

DeRosa is untradeable.

I highly doubt that. There would be many teams interested in trading for a second basemen, who can also play third and the outfield, who has an OPS over 800. He has plus power, great patience, a good glove, etc.

The fact that the cubs outspent everyone else for DeRosa means that his contract isnt a bargain. DeRosa is basically Jack Jones in that department. If his contract was such a hot ticket, he would have been dealt by now.

In terms of DeRosa, I disliked him because his career line is bad and it seemed like we were paying for a one year spike in good stats. Right now, he is proving me wrong and should continue to play. More then that, he should be hitting 1st or 2nd.

But, I still do not see him as any long term answer and this team needs a long term plan. From a financial standpoint, we have some very horrid backloaded contracts that are going to hurt us in a couple years, and we are going to have to look at building around some young, cheap talent.

Hmm... Fontenot's career slugging % is .427, and that is in the minors. The last two years he has put up a .430 and a .450 slugging %. He also has a total of 14 homeruns over the last two years, again, all in the minors.
r
DeRosa, in the big leagues, has a career slugging % of .409, but over the last two years has a .456 and .457 slugging %. He has a total of 18 homeruns over the last two years, all in the major leagues.

So DeRosa has a higher slugging % ovethe last two years in the majors than Fontenot has in the minors, but Fontenot is going to bring more power? I don't get it.

Johann, You are absolutely correct Johann. These backloaded deals probably usher Z and Barrett ( for better or worse) out of town this winter. For all the talk about 300 million dollars this or that. In reality, the payroll is 104 million this year. Right in line with what its been since 2004. What Hendry/McDonough did was backload deals to sell tickets. If the new owners keep costs where they have been. The future is bleaker than it has been, unless we start trusting our kids. All that being said DeRosa should have some value as a utility guy anyway. His patience and low average make him a prototypical NL #8 hitter IMHO. He will draw walks being pitched around down there.

His patience and low average make him a prototypical NL #8 hitter IMHO.

How many NL #8 hitters have an OBP of .350?

See, low AVG, high OBP is the worst thing for the #8 hitter. With the pitcher behind him, chances of a DP are very high. To me, a #8 hitter should have the ability to know in the guys in front of him who get on base. He should be a bottom of the lineup cleanup hitter.

DeRosa's stats are perfect either in the #1 or #2 spot, or in the #5 and #6 spot, for getting on after the cleanup hitter does his job.

DeRosa won't hit #8 next year. That'll be Blanco, since there's no one else to catch.

DeRosa...Fontenot...Steve Macko, Steve Dillard...whoever, it doesn't matter.

We paid up for DeRosa's one year outlier in 2006. At age 31, he suddenly figured it out, and had a nice season...of course his first half of .332/.384/.494 outshines his second half of 265/.333/.423.
He is having a decent season so far....not great, but decent. He is a good player to have on a team, playing all over the field...RF, 2B, 3B, which is how he'll be used. A 3 year deal? I don't know about that...
He is better than the dregs of baseball humanity that played the position last season, that's for sure.

"a career path for Cub prospects, good for organizational morale."

If there are any minor leaguers in the Cubs system who have low morale because there being "blocked", I want them released for being mental midgets.

The 8th spot is generally regarded as the toughest spot to hit in the NL because you get pitched around to get to the pitcher. That is why a guy like DeRosa makes sense there as opposed to a guy like Jack Jones. DeRosa would theoretically lay off of the pitch around pitches and walk. A Jack Jones type of player will more likely swing at 65% of the pitch around pitches and K.

Derosa, and Derosa's contract are not what is wrong with this team.

Forget about stats for a minute, these are guys who can not work the count:

Soriano, Ramirez, Jones, Barrett, Izturis

One or even two hitters like that in a lineup are ok, but 3 or 4... you'll have an inconsistent offense and opponents breezing through innings in 7-8 pitches. Many times these guys could stand at the plate and do nothing and have a more productive at bat.

If I'm Lou, with this superstar staff, I would tell those assholes, look, you need to see at least 3 pitches before you swing from now on or your ass goes on the bench, I don't care if it's the 3rd inning and I don't care if you stand there and watch 3 hung sliders.

You have to get their attention. The lack of patience is utterly ridiculous.

Its funny to read all these people saying how we should have traded Derosa, Floyd, Soriano, etc... by now. Talk about fantasy baseball. How many free agents will this team sign in the next 5 years, if they trade guys within the first 4 months of their contract? Get a grip on reality. Derosa isn't going anywhere. And Hendry won't be selling this year no matter how far out the Cubs are. He has a job to try and save. If he didn't purge his roster on July 31st last year, like he should have, he surely won't do it this year.

dave, I'm trying to compare apples and apples. I showed you the numbers. I can't tell you what Fontenot did with Texas last year, he wasn't there. In the same number of at bats in the high minors at the same age, Fontenot hit three times as many home runs and slugged 100 points higher.

Actually, we can't trade any of those three until June 15th, I think. Automatic no-trade when you sign as a free agent.

In the same number of at bats in the high minors at the same age, Fontenot hit three times as many home runs and slugged 100 points higher.

That is fine... but we know that DeRosa has developed power, and is currently hitting for more power in the major leagues than Fontenot is hitting in the minor leagues. You cannot assume that Fontenot will develop more power like DeRosa did. We can assume that DeRosa will maintain his power, being that he has had a slugging % of .439 or higher over the last two and a half years.

Soriano, Ramirez, Jones, Barrett, Izturis ... you need to see at least 3 pitches before you swing from now on or your ass goes on the bench

Yea!!! Lets bench Ramirez and play... Izturis? DeRosa? Because I would love to have either of those two instead of one of the best hitting 3b in the game.

And lets bench Barrett... and play Blanco? One of the worst hitters in baseball?

Soriano? Sure... lets bench a guy who is very capable of a 40/40 season just because he doesn't take enough pitches.

Look... I really like patient hitters, and wish the Cubs were more patient. But taking pitches is not the ONLY important thing to do as a hitter. Further, you do not bench some of your best hitters because they are not taking enough pitches, especially when their replacements would just be worse.

*Talk about fantasy baseball. How many free agents will this team sign in the next 5 years, if they trade guys within the first 4 months of their contract? *

I don't believe players can be traded that early into their contracts, can they?

But assuming they can be and assuming they were traded--what does the player care? His contract goes with him.

Tonight's starting pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals:

Todd Wellemeyer.

you need to see at least 3 pitches before you swing from now on or your ass goes on the bench

Because players want stability just as much as they want money.

Does anybody here really think that there's another team in baseball that has such a low opinion of themselves that they would commit today to paying Mark DeRosa starter money in 2009?

A team like that would have no spark, no optimism, no future.

Do you notice that the Cubs get beat every day by teams with younger players?

(I'd get more work done if the Cubs would win a damned game.)

Does anybody here really think that there’s another team in baseball that has such a low opinion of themselves that they would commit today to paying Mark DeRosa starter money in 2009?

Yes... I do. Once again... DeRosa is a 2b who has had an OPS over .810 for a year and a half now. He plays very good defense, has plus power, and very good patience. I do not get how you all do not see the value in that.

Does anybody here really think that there’s another team in baseball that has such a low opinion of themselves that they would commit today to paying Mark DeRosa starter money in 2009?

Yes... I do. Once again... DeRosa is a 2b who has had an OPS over .810 for a year and a half now. He plays very good defense, has plus power, and very good patience. I do not get how you all do not see the value in that.

oops...

wes/no,

well you completely missed the point of my post.

i know you cant trade any of those until sometime in june, which makes it even more stupid when someone suggests it.

My apologies, Vince.

Also, BillyBucks, Welley is on a pitch count of only pitches 65 tonight in Denver. That should at least allow him to work into the third.

My apologies, Vince.

BillyBucks, Welley is also on a pitch count of only 75 pitches tonight in Denver. That should at least allow him to work into the third.

DAMNIT.

Yes… I do. Once again… DeRosa is a 2b who has had an OPS over .810 for a year and a half now. He plays very good defense, has plus power, and very good patience. I do not get how you all do not see the value in that.
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For my part because one good season among many crappy seasons is an outlier. In scientific studies, you would discount outliers as not valid, but the Cubs instead reward an outlier season with an expensive contract.

He has performed better then I expected from an OBP standpoint (though his AVG is around the same as his career average), but it's still not good policy to give a big contract to a player who has one good year at an advanced age. By and large you will get burned.

Also, his 2B RFg this year is 3.94 compared to a league average of 4.40. Let's not crown him a defensive wizard yet.

In scientific studies, you would discount outliers as not valid, but the Cubs instead reward an outlier season with an expensive contract.

I know stats... but baseball does not always fit within a scientific study. By most, if not all, accounts, DeRosa turned a corner last year by making some changes to his stance, swing, and approach.

Further, I am not sure that a 3 yr, 13 million contract can be considered "expensive" in this day and age.

In scientific studies, you would discount outliers as not valid, but the Cubs instead reward an outlier season with an expensive contract.

Johann,
I don't think the Cubs are unique in rewarding outliers with big contracts. If you looked at the worst free agent signings in baseball history, you'd have a database full of that behavior. So the Cubs aren't alone. They're just more practiced at it.

why the in the holy name of Harry Caray is anyone arguing over DeRosa versus Fontentot?

DeRosa isn't the problem with this team, hasn't been since day one that the season started. He's exactly what this team had been lacking in this lineup under Dusty, a patient hitter who makes pitchers work. And his defense has been damn good and he can play 3 positions pretty well from what I've seen.

Fontentot=player 29 teams didn't want who's defense was sub-par going into the year.

He's repeating AAA and putting up big numbers. That's great. His defense has improved. That's great. It might be average now. He wouldn't be starting for 29 other teams and shouldn't be starting for us. If there's an injury somewhere, I'll welcome his call-up.

There's two problems with this team right now, each and every guy in the bullpen has taken a shot at screwing up a game and we're not hitting home runs. And MIke Fontentot isn't going to fix either of those.

Phils wanted DeRosa to play 3b, Giants were interested too. Cubs promised him 2b though and he wanted to stay there.

And if his game slips, his positional flexibility and non-Neifi like patience makes him a natural for a utility/bench role.

Damn you , Derosa!!

Rob G steps it up!!!!!!

Good point....it's not DeRosa's fault that the bullpen sucks and the lineup has had little power this year.
It's Neifi's fault.

where in the hell are some people getting their scouting reports on fontenot, btw.

this guy is getting some serious love without much tangible scouting that's being backed up by much of anyone.

the grass is greener on the dubois side til you realize that it was just astroturf all along.

not to say fontenot is as flawed as dubois...fontenot can actually see the ball rather than flailing at it with a 90mph swing that lacks focus.

still, shouldnt it send up a little question about mark loretta lite's makeup when he's pretty much labeled a 2nd baseman who cant adapt well outside of 2nd...and has been passed up for little-to-no cost to 29 other teams for the past couple years at multiple points?

numbers are sexy and all, but you could end up with the crying game under all that makeup of numbers if you dont explore it more closely.

Sergio Mitre looks like a thug on the cubs.com matchups.

Once again, I blame Michael Barrett

Henry Blaco has been a backup afterthought his whole career. Burned through several organizations. Now all of the sudden he is the Catching savior of scores of cubs fans. Its all relative.

where in the hell are some people getting their scouting reports on fontenot, btw.

Everything you would ever want to know about FONTENOT, including the latest on his improved fielding and versatility, has been posted here on TCR

... .I've done my part that's for sure. Not our fault you don't read.

I like the suggestions to bat soriano 5th, as I think it would improve the lineup. But the odds of Lou doing that are slim, so he will stay at leadoff.

At this point, since nothing is working, why not play Pie in center, and Murton in right, and see what they can do? At least they are young and have upside. If Patterson is ready to face MLB pitchers, bring him up and put him at 2nd, and play Derosa in right when Murton needs a break or is cold.

To echo Rob's sentiments:

With all the problems on this team, why the hell do you guys obsess over Mike Fontenot and Ryan Theriot? If those two guys started every game at second and short, our record would probably be the same as it is right now. OHHHH, I forgot! The only thing that matters in baseball is OBP. Right. I have got to work on that.

I don’t think the Cubs are unique in rewarding outliers with big contracts. If you looked at the worst free agent signings in baseball history, you’d have a database full of that behavior. So the Cubs aren’t alone. They’re just more practiced at it.
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Oh, I agree with you, but many of those free agent signings also crippled teams into poor play. The good teams are able to avoid those kind of contracts. That's my point, that we are simply one more team who has rewarded average play with big contracts.

And my worry about the DeRosa contract is it's a microcosm of the team in general. We spent a bunch of money on players who probably didn't deserve the contracts. Some of the players (Lilly, Marquis, DeRosa) have performed better then expected. But Marquis has shown signs of falling off, and let's maybe wait a full season to see if he truly has turned a corner (or should we call Meche an ace now?).

Soriano might be worth the money in the next couple years, but if he loses his speed he's basically lost much of what made him so attractive in the first place. And again, while he's been decent in his career, he was by and large rewarded for an outlier season last year. Before that, he only had higher then a .330 OBP once in the leadoff spot, which is bad.

Maybe he has turned the corner, but we still sunk a large amount of money into a guy who really doesn't belong in the leadoff spot, especially when he loses his speed (which seems to be this year with the injury/laziness. He's been very slow out of the batter's box).

We've basically crippled ourselves for years to come in the hope we could go from a last place team to a World Series winner in one year spending money in a bad FA market. We probably can't get big name FAs this offseason because of the team sale, so we're basically stuck trying to win a World Series with what we have, and if we can't, no one is going to take the big contracts off our hands unless we pay the salaries. So we're the Texas Rangers basically.

Also, the problem with this team isn't just lack of HRs and the bullpen. Derek Lee hit a solo shot HR yesterday. Who was on base before him to make it more runs? No one. We've already been through the high HR, low run seasons and it didn't win us anything.

It's a small stat, but we as a team are dead last in sacrifice flies and hits. Only 7 SFs and 13 SHs. I'd like to do more studies based around that, but to me that shows how poor of a job we've done getting people home, combined with piss poor running on the bases. We are 12th in the NL in SB%.

Also, consistently the past week or so the bottom part of our lineup has produced only to have the rally die because Izzy, Jones or the pitcher couldn't get anyone home. Every part of the lineup is meaningful, especially to a team that's had a hard time scoring runs.

So while certainly I'd like to see more HRs, that's not the answer to this team's problems, and trying to hit more HRs could make them worse. Len mentioned yesterday how teams were pitching Lee away more, which is not allowing him to hit for the kind of power he used to. Instead, he's hitting to the opposite field a lot more.

I wouldn't be surprised if teams were also pitching to Soriano low and outside quite a bit more, knowing he'll swing at those. It's certainly seemed like that watching the games.

So you can't simply hit HRs because you want to. Good hitters work with what's given them, and if they aren't being given middle or inside fast balls or sliders, they aren't going to hit HRs. They can, however, hit lots of singles and doubles, which both batters have done so far.

That is great if they can be driven in, which so far hasn't happened nearly as much as it should.

Wow... that was as long as, if not longer than, an AZ Phil comment...

Something has got to give with the power numbers. Not only are two of the the big boppers (Lee and Soriano) way behind their normal pace, but the second-tier guys as well:

Jones: 1 HR in 152AB
Murton: 1HR in 104AB
Floyd: 2HR in 100AB

Each of these guys should be expected to hit between 15-25 HRs in a full, 500AB season.

Either we are due to see a huge power surge for the Cubs starting soon, or these 5 guys are all looking at career-low HR totals this year, which seems unlikely.

Tonight would be a good time to start, as I am going to the game.

Wow… that was as long as, if not longer than, an AZ Phil comment…
_____________________________________

Frustration causes me to write a lot:-)

I think the energy of this team needs to change. I think that adding Pie had a very positive effect on this team while Soriano was out, and I think his presence and energy in the dugout, even when he wasn't playing, was a boost. I mean, the guy was so excited about what had just happened on the field, that he leapt from his perch atop the bench and hit his head on the ceiling. That rubs off, and that is a big reason that this guy has won at every level. They clearly need to make some room for him. All this Fontenot talk might be worth exploring, but I am definitely on the fence about whether he could really contribute right now.

Legit question: What could we expect to get for four months of Michael Barrett's services if we traded him? Average middle relief? No. 2 starter of the future? Anything that could actually help us this year?

I have little faith that the Cubs will re-sign him, not that he is worth the money someone is eventually going to pay him. I'd be willing to punt offense at catcher to a) get better defensively and b) get something in return, preferably another SOLID bullpen option.

At the least I think we could get someone like Chris Bootcheck, and probably get a sweetener on top of that as well.

With Man-Love of white Michael set aside, thoughts?

Floyd, Jones, Lee, Soriano, to a lesser degree Murton need to reach the fences. Plain and simple. Other than Floyd who you could point to last year's down year, there's not much one could point that would explain or predict this.

Maybe platooning Jones has cost him, I guess. It's a bit of reach though.

As for sacrifices and such, I've read plenty of articles that show that usually bad teams lead in those categories. I'm not going to do a thorough study but in 2006 alone, Brewers, DBacks and Nats were top 3 in sac flies. Rockies, Astros and Cubs in Sacrifice hits.

If Patterson is ready to face MLB pitchers, bring him up and put him at 2nd,

Mdog, since Cedeno was sent down to Iowa he's been starting at SS and Fontenot has become Iowa's regular 2B. EPatt has been bumped from second to the outfield.

Here's where he's started the last seven games:

2B
LF
LF
CF
LF
LF
LF

I think the point that Johann is trying to make is completely valid. Basically the cubs need to get away from signing 3rd tier free agents to bloated contracts. Instead develop your own players like every successful team does. I agree with this 100%. If you are going to foray into the Free Agent market. Do it to plug a whole where you dont have a Kid, or do it to get a top tier talent ( Soriano). As we have seen many times before. When an organization self imposes a 100-105 million dollar payroll. It doesnt take alot of Neifi's, Rusch's,Cesar's to use up the money that should have been used for Tejada or Furcal.

Jock Jones has the answer to all of our questions-

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/406093,...

aaronb: A Jack Jones type of player will more likely swing at 65% of the pitch around pitches and K

btw... here are some numbers on Jock Jones' at-bats:

61% of pitches he has seen are strikes (called and swinging)
30% of those were looking, the other 70% were either swinging strikes (15%), fouls (20%), or balls in play (36%).

Basically he has swung at 259 pitches this year out of a total of 602. So he doesn't even swing at 50% of all pitches, but you think he would sing at 65% of bad pitches?

ugh... more disappearing comments.

"I’d be willing to punt offense at catcher to a) get better defensively and b) get something in return, preferably another SOLID bullpen option."

we have that already, Henry Blanco, oh yeah he cant get hit, to bad this isint the AL

someone stop him....

Pitcher Kerry Wood said during an interview with Comcast SportsNet that he'd be willing to undergo another surgery on his pitching shoulder if that's his best chance to complete a comeback

it seem to be painful, day after day, year after year

"It doesnt take alot of Neifi’s, Rusch’s,Cesar’s to use up the money that should have been used for Tejada or Furcal."

These things to not equate. Neifi, Rusch and Ceasr's last (or current ) salaries for one year equal less than half of Tejada's or Furcals. You guys still don't get it, do you? Money is not the problem. The Cubs have shown recently (since 2004) that they are willing to spend what it takes to build a winner. Now if you want to point to signing Neifi and Rusch as a problem, call it what it is, money poorly spent. Expecting more from what they could give is a much bigger problem than what they were getting paid. Would you have been happy with Neifi or Rusch on the Cubs if they made league minimum? No.

Then the two people you site as your examples are terrible. We went after Furcal and all but had him wrapped up. He went to the Dodger's cause he wanted to play for the Dodger's. Plain and simple. And Tejada? That was a huge mistake, sure. But the real problem was that we had Alex Gonzalez making 8 million a year at short that we could not eat. Believe me, if Neifi and his 1 million dollar contract was penciled in at short, that would could put on the bench but you can't bench 8 million.

I know what you all are thinking, WHAT'S HENDRY UP TO THESE DAYS?

Well, he's been in Indiana (along with fifty other scouts) checking out high school pitcher, Jarrod Parker, who can throw 98 mph. Milwaukee is expected to draft him 7th overall, but the Cubs seem to be interested and they go third.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/172...

all signs point to Parker or Vitters right now....

Then the two people you site as your examples are terrible. We went after Furcal and all but had him wrapped up. He went to the Dodger’s cause he wanted to play for the Dodger’s. Plain and simple. And Tejada? That was a huge mistake, sure. But the real problem was that we had Alex Gonzalez making 8 million a year at short that we could not eat. Believe me, if Neifi and his 1 million dollar contract was penciled in at short, that would could put on the bench but you can’t bench 8 million.
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That is exactly what I was saying Chad. I would have had Zero problems with Neifi or Rusch on the roster on the cheap. A good organization (Oakland,Atlanta) is able to pick up scrap heap guys and get production. Much like the cubs did with those 2 in 2005. However a good team doesnt burn up money to resign these guys when they are easily replaceable. Tejada signed for 12 million dollars per/yr on average. It was penny wise pound foolish to not sign him because of Alex Gonzalez. If Hendry has shown anything, its the ability to Backload a contract. That wouldnt have been a prime time to do so?

"I’ve done my part that’s for sure. Not our fault you don’t read."

unless ive missed something, you in particular have said nothing at all about his actual ability that relies on putting a set of eyes on the guy.

its been the "grass is greener on the other side" and "well, its gotta be better than ___" stuff. delving into numbers without looking at how the numbers are made.

a lot's been said that supports that fontenot is a 1-position guy who's got limited versitility...gap doubles power...questions about his ability to hit good breaking stuff...a lack of a good pull swing...can be worked up the ladder with a good high fastball the midget cant lay off of.

he's mark loretta/marcus giles without the slick D...and they've had a hell of a time finding regular work, themselves.

theriot-lite...loretta-lite...i mean, hell...this is like getting excited about david eckstein on the same level of albert pujols or something...

give him 600ab he could probably hit 30+ doubles and pull off a .330+ ob%, but so could a lotta people who arent sharp with the D up the middle.

btw...one thing that kinda gets me about handicapping minor leaguer IF's and their D...one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb in a lot of minor league games is how many double plays arent turned cuz 1 of the 2-3+ guys in the play-in-progress just isnt skilled enough to actually do it regularly.

there's good/passable D...and there's D that will cost you outs. todd walker's bat overcame his limitations at 2nd though he pissed away a good amount of outs with his freezing/clumbsy foot positioning and throws on the double play. he can pick, he can catch a popup (sometimes), he can shovel to the SS to start a DP when applicable...but wow he could murder a DP with a runner coming at him in so many ways.

Chad:
"OHHHH, I forgot! The only thing that matters in baseball is OBP. Right. I have got to work on that."

And lineup construction too. If we move Soriano to #5 and don't put Izzy at #2, this team would be 10 games above .500..WOO!!!!!

I agree with your scout on Fontenot, crunch. Spot on.

If Fontenot could pitch, however...

Yadier Molina out 4-6 weeks with a fractured left wrist.

Yadier Molina out 4-6 weeks with a fractured left wrist.

.......................................................................

Maybe we can trade them Hank White's contract?

Yadier Molina out 4-6 weeks with a fractured left wrist.

Maybe we can trade them Barrett. Because we all know how much better Hank White will be in the Cubs lineup...

And Milwaukee just went up 2-1 in bottom of the 7th. It is not the top of the 8th. But since the Brewers are going to win today, the Cubs probably will.

I think 10 games might be a bit of an exaggeration there, manny. I might give you a 4 or 5 game improvement due to Soriano probably having another 10 or 12 RBI's. A 15 game improvement seems a bit far-fetched.

And may I also remind you Izzy has hit second no more than thrice this season.

freaking brewers bullpen cost me a david bush win, good for the cubs, bad for me.

Yost should have went to Cordero with the bases loaded and one out. I don't care that it was a lefty up. Use the closer, skipper.

this pen work mil is bringing this inning should be familiar to what cubs fans been seeing the past 2 months.

I think the Brewers should release Turnbow and Shouse and call-up whatever AAA scrubs are pitching well for them. :)

and turn Cordero into a starter and put Gallardo into the bullpen.

makes perfect sense...no?

well geez Braves, at least keep it close so Wickman can get a save for me. I swear these teams don't read my memo about they should play to help my fantasy teams.

hahaha

I keep hoping that if Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis can stay off the DL (as well as Sorriano, Lee, Aram) and make 30+ starts this year ... at some pt, the W's will follow. How did Marmol look last night? Somebody mentioned Howry's fastball hitting 93mph last night -- it did look better (detect some movement on it as well?)

That Turnbow...he's no Matt Capps.

How did Marmol look last night?

A bit wild as usual. But also very nasty as usual.

He also threw a good number of pitches (42, 27 for strikes).

But I am continually amazed at how nasty his stuff is. He three one pitch that looked like it broke about three or four feet that started towards the right handed batter and ended up way outside (and the batter swung at it).

man Prince Fielder only hits home runs when they don't matter.

He needs to hold off on those until 5 guys are on-base.

Don't mess with the PRINCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did Edgar Renteria look in that game Rob? It sure would be nice to have him right about now. Or at least Julio Lugo. Or Raffy Furcal. Or Miguel Tejada. Or Orlando Cabrera. Or even Rey Sanchez circa 1992.

"It was penny wise pound foolish to not sign him because of Alex Gonzalez."

No way. No team under any circumstances benches 8 million dollars. Pennywise and pound foolish would be not signing Tejada cause we have Neifi already making 1 - 2 million.

You can take a kid out of the Cubs but you can't take the Cubs out of the kid.

AARDSMA just walked in the winning run in the ninth on four pitches. Twins score a run on no hits.

Gonzalez was making $5.75 mil according to BR.com.

and you do try and trade Gonzalez though if an obvious upgrade is available.

but everyone in baseball was scared to spend money that off-season for whatever reason.

John Sickles has a scouting report on Wieters today

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2007/5/2...
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Rob G. — May 30, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
Gonzalez was making $5.75 mil according to BR.com.

and you do try and trade Gonzalez though if an obvious upgrade is available.

but everyone in baseball was scared to spend money that off-season for whatever reason.
........................................................................

I do remember that to an extent. The sad part is that here it is. THREE AND A HALF YEARS LATER. And we still have the same hole. Renteria,Lugo,Cabrera, EVEN NOMAR would look good at short right now. We found money for Maddux,Lee,Todd Walker,Latroy Hawkins and Kent Mercker that offseason. Despite a hole we all saw going into the season. Tejada was never on the radar.

Tejada was never on the radar.

And you know this how?

Maddux was kind of last minute (he signed a day or two before camp). The rest had nothing to do with Tejada though. I think he was on the radar, wasn't he? Nothing too serious but I think there was some discussions.

and I bet the B-12 isn't as good in Chicago as Baltimore....

I kid, I kid.

Not to be all Hendy apologist and all, but after this off-season of spending I have a tendency to think McPhail was the one stopping us from getting most of these guys...if it matters to anyone.

Brewers 'pen gives up 7 in the 8th to blow a 2-1 lead.

Is this a FUN division, or what?!

Also, the White Sox lose on an Aardsma walk-off walk. After a great start, he has been pretty awful.

at least the cubs bullpen isint the only one that implodes on itself, the Brewers alowed 7 and the White Sox walked in the winning run

"That Turnbow…he’s no Matt Capps."

Damn. I think I got ripped off.

anyone hear about schmidt getting a contract? I hear it was for three years.

lol... i was thinking the exact same thing.

hey guys... i heard the brewers blew a lead!

anybody know about this Mike Fontentot fella in AAA? Seems to be tearing it up in Iowa but I haven't heard much talk about him around here.

3/44

Wow aaronb...your 3/44 is a 3/44 of Vorare's 3/44. It's a new level of repitition. Awesome!

Shoot. Now Koronka is ruining MY chance for a save. Damn you John Koronka, my arch-nemesis!

basically the jist of the whole diatribe is this:

I am really not happy with the way things are going in cubdom right now. Does anyone else agree with me that things have been disapointing?

Does anyone else agree with me that things have been disapointing?

i agree.

Um, yeah. I agree.

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