Game 63 Thread/Mariners @ Cubs (#1 of 3)

Game chat Rich Hill vs. Jarrod Washburn This is Hill's first-ever start against the Mariners, Washburn's first-ever start against the Cubs, and the first-ever meeting between the teams at Wrigley. (In 2002, the M's took 2 of 3 from the C's at Safeco.) Hill (5-4, 2.71) is coming off a stunning effort against the Braves: 8 IP, 1 R, 3 H and 11 K. Washburn (5-4, 3.94) has pitched like hell the last two times out: 8 1/3 IP, 10 ER, 18 H.
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1. A Soriano, LF .311 10 22 8
2. A Pagan, CF .294 2 5 3
3. D Lee, 1B .329 6 35 3
4. M Barrett, C .246 9 27 2
5. M DeRosa, 3B .264 6 31 0
6. M Murton, RF .259 1 8 1
7. R Theriot, 2B .274 1 20 9
8. C Izturis, SS .252 0 6 2
9. R Hill, P

Ugly-ass lineup.

And for them...

8 Ichiro
4 Lopez
9 Guillen
7 Ibanez
3 Sexson (.200!)
2 Johjima
5 Beltre
6 Betancourt
1 Washburn

Solid lineup ... no wonder they're playing well... not going to be the pushover series I suspected last November...

I don't like it when Pie is not playing.

Uh oh, Lou says he likes "the little guy" Fontenot and he's going to get a lot of playing time.

What is Izturis doing in the lineup?

If you're taking Pie out because of a left you gotta take out Izturis... His line:
vs. Left
G AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
19 31 226 .273 .258 .531

At Wrigley:

G AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
19 53 132 .220 .151 .371

but yes, he should be in there and Fontenot shouldn't.

Strangest, most depressing line-up I've seen all season. At least let the rooks play while they all still here.

Fontenot was hitting .350 against left handed pitching in AAA!!

Let the Rooks play when they are the ones WINNING the games!

Z just said he told his agent to shut down contract talks til the end of the season. His idea.

Legel...seriously. you are right...wtf.

Its like Lou refuses to put the best lineup out there...he gets close every once in a while until he puts in Itzturis or Jacque in the OF.

Play Font. Play Riot. Play Pagan. Play Sori. Play Pie. Play Floyd. Play Derosa, Lee and Barrett. Mix of youth and talent. An OF with Pie and Pagan would run down everything....This combo would bring speed as well, let alone the "chemistry" of having Pie and Soriano (best buds) and Font and Riot (double play combo in AAA) on the field at the same time. Cut ties with Jacque and Let Font and Pagan prove that they do not belong!!!

We can't say we didn't know this about Lou before he was hired.

And of course Hendry's been in CYA mode for years, so he's on board with it.

BTW, i am not saying we will lose or anything. I just think my lineup is what the fans and team deserves. They all have earned a starting spot. Jacque and Itz have not.

and murton has not either.

Ya heard?

Valid point c murda. 1st inning prime example...those worthy of being in the line-up got on base, scored, contributed to the inning. Murton K's and Izz-bite-this grounds out with bases loaded. Ugh.

Maybe walks aren't so great? Maybe if Theriot swings, he pokes one into the outfield but rather, he walks. This brings up a player who is even less likely to get a hit.

Chad -

You make a pretty valid point there, but it's not Theriot's fault he's hitting in front of Izturis. Theriot should be batting second tonight, with Pagan 8th (a little bit of power).

The 7-8 holes are actually pretty good RBI spots since the hitters in front of you are generally the best in the lineup, and some of the most likely to get on base. You really waste Theriot's patience with Izturis behind him.

I don't know what Hill's problem was when he was yelling at Barrett in the middle of the 4th, but he needs to shut the hell up.

You grooved a fastball to an American League pitcher and you let him beat you. You coulda shook that one off. You coulda stepped off. Not your catcher's fault. No matter how piss poor he is. That one's on you.

Doug, point taken and it's a fair one. But what I'm talking about is situational hitting. Right there Theriot has got to understand the situation. You have to know that the guy behind you is less likely than you to get a hit, so right there, take a chance at a ball a bit off the plate and poke into right. Now granted, I didn't see the at bat and maybe every ball was horrid. In that case, there is no reason to swing just to swing.

Theriot seemed to try his hardest in that at-bat. Worked the count full, even fouled off a crazy two-strike inside pitch on what seemed to be a hit-and-run. He new Izzy was waitin on deck. Lou was thinkin the same thing.

To add, both Murton and Izzy with 4 left on base through 6.

Please tell me somebody got that last half-inning and will post it to Youtube. That may be the dumbest woman in all of history. Why on Earth do we have some chick interviewed during a baseball game who doesn't know what an outfield is? Dear lord not only is American Idol annoying when it's on, now it is ruining my Cubs games?

P.S. Southern accents + stupidity doesn't = charm. Not anymore than a Chicago accent or SoCal accent or Brooklyn accent.

If you haven't heard...Verlander no-hits the Brewers!

I didn't even listen to that interview - hey, they fooled me once last night...

Bases loaded nobody out and the Cubs can't even hit the ball out of the infield. Beautiful.

Would you rather Theriot swing at pitches out of the strike zone just so he doesn't walk Chad?

Yea chad... i am not sure what you want there. It was a good at-bat, and there isn't much you can do with balls out of the strike zone. They are balls for a reason.

And yea... that bottom half of the 8th was about as hard to watch as the bottom of the 7th was to listen to Kelly Pickler.

Howry with a 1-2-3 10th... if that's not good juju, I don't know what is. Let's get some runs!

Honestly, the team does not "deserve" to win tonight.

To not even get the ball OUT OF THE INFIELD with bases loaded and no one out in a late inning, is just NOT winning baseball.

And - LOU fucking sucked with his moves tonight, although, I usually am behind the guy. To have Pie, with very poor stats up there against lefties does not play into his usual strategy.

C'mon Lou!

Can you not at least TRY a squeeze with a good bat handler such as Theriot at the plate? No Outs?

What the heck, Team?

Where were the three prodigal sons of Cubs baseball in the ninth?

Also, EM, I have only one question for you: "That's what they call the out-field, right?"

"Popcorn and Crackerjacks"

Gosh-darn it all!

Ya'll have SO MANY people here!

Oh no, Barrett.

Oh no.

Ah, nice bush league play there, Barrett. NOW I recognize this as a Cubs game.

Sigh.

wow...other teams must just laugh at that shitty defense. it doesn't get more amateurish than that play.

thanks, jim hendry.

At least part of the blame has to lie with Jones ground ball throw from shallow right.

but yea - that is a play that barrett absolutely needs to make.

Jacque Fricken Jones.

Throw the ball. Just throw the fricken ball.

This team is pathetic. Anyone have a stat on the team batting average in extras?

It's like deja vu every time it goes into the 9th tied. Game drags on until a poor fielding play lets a run score, other team's closer comes in in the bottom of the inning and mows down the Cubs to end the game.

That said, Barrett should have been able to come up with the worm burner.

hey - you can't really blame jones for not being able to throw he *only* makes 5 million per.

You get 5+ innings of scoreless ball from your pen. One of them is eventually going to give it up. Pin it on the offense.

i'd be curious to see how many bases loaded no out situations the cubs have had and failed to score.

Ohman is chump ass bitch.

Ever listen to an interview with him? He seems to think he's funny and is a real smart ass.

Pull your pant legs over your meaty calves, shut the fuck up and try and pitch like a major leaguer.

Wait a minute. Throw the ball? He had him beat by 2 full steps.

What do you want? It to be there in the air? The throw beat the runner. Tag the runner and he's out. That's the same hop he would have got if it was a one hopper thrown by any outfielder.

Glad to hear the crowd boo JJ's K in the 13th. He's Burnitz lite.

wow...wes, come on. please. the ball rolled 40% of the way there. indefensible.

Game's not on TV here, can someone explain the Jones-Barrett scoring play?

amateur F-ING hour with this team. half of these guys wouldn't have a roster spot on playoff teams. f-off jim hendry and your crap ass team.

yea wes... it was a terrible throw. not sure how many worms were killed, but they are digging mass graves as we speak.

but don't get me wrong - barrett still should make that play, but it isn't the easiest thing to block the plate and catch the ground ball.

but it is a play that most catchers will make 9/10 times.

I don't care how bad of a throw it was. IT BEAT THE RUNNER. It could have been a perfect throw. It would have been irrelevant since he didn't catch it. Barrett got a fieldable hop and he didn't catch it.

Koyie Fucking Hill. AHSUIAUIDHAUIDHASUIHDASUID.

Game’s not on TV here, can someone explain the Jones-Barrett scoring play?

Single to right... Vidro tries to score from 2b, Jones throws a ball that starts rolling right past the infield dirt. Barrett grabs the ball, goes for the tag, Vidro doesn't come close to the plate, and then everyone realizes that Barrett dropped the ball. Vidro stepped on the plate, and he was safe.

actually, were it a perfect throw, even the craptastic michael barrett would've caught it.

Got home in time to listen to the last two innings on the Gameday Audio. Lucky me.

1-6 now in extra inning games, says Pat...

and the win coming against the Nationals

"Glad to hear the crowd boo JJ’s K in the 13th. He’s Burnitz lite."

If Burny were in RF atleast he would have made a better throw than Jacquestrap did. Burnitz is 5x the player of that piece of crap.

I just have no words. Gonna whip my putz now.

And...the 16th bullpen loss of 2007. I am curious what the record is. Nearly 1/4 of the team's losses are pinned on the bullpen. Amazing.

Although, tonight, I am not totally blaming them.

How people still believe this team will win the division is beyond me.

With the same talent, how would Tony LaRussa have handled a bases loaded, no-outs 8th, with the wind blowing in and two top sluggers not available, and the third in a power slump, with the wind blowing in? I am just wondering what anyone else thinks.

the game was over in the 8th, Bases Loaded with no outs and we cant even come close to scoring the go ahead run.

"How people still believe this team will win the division is beyond me."

you really dont have to believe anything, just go look at what Milwaukee has done the past month.

How people still believe this team will win the division is beyond me.

It has little to do with the Cubs.

It has everything to do with the Brewers regressing, the Astros signing Chan Ho Park, and the Cardinals using Todd Wellemeyer in the starting rotation.

Yes, at some point the offense has to get some major blame. The bullpen isn't meant to save our butts every game. The majority of time, the offense and starting pitching should be winning games.

But, the chat was fun anyway:-)

I cannot believe that some of you guys are defending Barrett. Please come to grips with this simple reality: Mike Barrett is the worst defensive catcher in MLB. The throw from JJ wasn't perfect, but it had the two main qualities you want in a throw to the plate - a) it didn't move the catcher off the plate, and b) it arrived before the runner did. A merely competent catcher translates that into FUCKING TAGGING a non-sliding runner who didn't even touch the base on his first pass. A shit catcher like Barrett, whose defensive ineptitude in the most important position on the field costs us at least one base per game and has directly contributed to at least 5 losses this year, lets it dribble out of his glove. I'd say "cut the fat" but catcher seems like the one position on the Cubs where we are absolutely screwed with virtually no help from our farm. When they announced Koyie Hill's name as the batter after Sori walked in the 14th, I have never in my life been so certain of a Cub loss. If I had been in Vegas, I would have laid down 100 million against 10 grand that Koyie makes the 3rd out. That is, if I had been in Vegas and I had 100 mil.

this team seems to give up once the 10th inning roles around. its like they have better things to do, night game tomorrow night, lets get this over with so we can go to teh bar

"I have never in my life been so certain of a Cub loss."

did you just start watching the cubs this year? I couldve told you this game was over after they tied it and failed to score a run with no outs and the bases loaded.

Kev,

I hear you, but if that were true, that they really did need to get somewhere, wouldn't it be just a whole lot more effective just to score a run and end the game?

"did you just start watching the cubs this year?"

ummm...no.

I wish they had scored a run, but they didnt.

i hate to blame the place but the more i think about it, the more i want to believe that if the cubs played anywhere else, we wouldve won a world series by now. the wind blowing in is a terrible terrible thing.

I said it in the chat and I'll say it again right here,

Jason Marquis was a better choice than Hill. FU LOU!!!! GO AWAY!!!!

Lou lost this game by not Pinch running Pie for Barrett in the 8th. Pie probably scores on the Derosa double or the Theriot grounder.

chifan, i hate lou, but you can't pinch run for you catcher in the 8th. maybe if it happened in the 9th.

The offense lost the game. 13 innings 3 runs against a hot hitting crappy pitching team = loss. Too many left on base, and from the stats, everyone took their turn at not getting the job done.

My question is, why give an IBB to Betancourt?

chifan... no way does pie score on the theriot grounder. maybe the derosa double, but definitely not the grounder.

Does it bother anybody else when guys swing at ball four in extra innings? Barrett did it his last time up and DeRosa did it three times in his last two at bats.

It certainly doens't bother Chad!

*With the same talent, how would Tony LaRussa have handled a bases loaded, no-outs 8th, with the wind blowing in and two top sluggers not available, and the third in a power slump, with the wind blowing in? I am just wondering what anyone else thinks. *

LaRussa would've squeezed in that run, probably, especially if he had seen the team fail to score a run with the bases loaded and none out just two nights previously in Atlanta.

But not Sweet Lou, who seems to manage an awful lot like Earl Weaver lately.

*did you just start watching the cubs this year? I couldve told you this game was over after they tied it and failed to score a run with no outs and the bases loaded. *

You'd have been right since they did the same thing two nights earlier. Once is an accident, two times is a trend...

If I recall, DP, the IBB to Betancourt was in the 13th with Willie Bloomquist up next. If that's not correct, then everything I will say is horrifically incorrect.

Lou walked Betancourt with Ohman out there because he is currently posting a 338/400/565 line against left.

Willie Bloomquist, in the on-deck circle, is currently 3-12 against left-handers and they're all singles. 250/357/250.

Now if you care the discuss the merits of putting your LOOGY out there for two full innings, I cannot provide a logical answer to that conundrum.

Now if you care the discuss the merits of putting your LOOGY out there for two full innings, I cannot provide a logical answer to that conundrum.

And what would you have done? It was the 13th inning... there were not many options.

Don't you wonder how Lou can keep writing Jones and Barrett on his lineup card? Or even if they do start, how can they be on the field in any close game?

Jacque, as soon as you field a ball you throw one base in front of the lead runner towards the guy waving his arms (he's called the cutoff man) who will be told by the guy in back of him to let it go or cut it off. You don't hold the friggin' ball....EVER!!!

Barrett, you suck. All you had to do was catch the damn ball and tag the runner. Again, you suck. A cardboard cut-out of Johnny Bench would be better at catcher than that steaming pile of horse dung.

Unbelieveable loss........unbelieveable.

"i hate to blame the place but the more i think about it, the more i want to believe that if the cubs played anywhere else, we wouldve won a world series by now."

Yeah, I think Bobby Murcer could have led them to several WS wins in the 70s had they played in another park. And certainly the Bump Wills and Lennie Randall teams of the early 80s would have won a couple.

I suppose I agree, dave.

He did have Wuertz down there. Coulda got a couple outta him. Don't really want to throw Gallagher in there, but I would have after Wuertz and before Ohman. Certainly don't want Eyre in there.

Even in extras, I still want my LOOGY until the last possible moment in case I need him. Especially when Ohman has struggled so mightly against righties this year (325/391/525).

I know this is a little late, but it was actually the Cubs who took 2 of 3 from the Mariners at Safeco in 2002

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