Fan Interference

Can't do a full recap today, but as you probably know, there were a couple cases of fan interference in the OF bleachers today. In the first case, Lee hit a ball to the point in LF where the "well" begins, and the home run basket sort of goes upward and back, at an angle. A fan grabbed hold of a railing, leaned out, and caught what he clearly thought was already a HR, on its way into the basket. The umpire ruled, however, that the ball was still in play when the fan touched it and since it wasn't interference with an on-field defensive opportunity, it was declared a double. Upon further review (and it took several reviews, and a blown-up image), the umps made the correct call. The ball was going to fall into the field of play, it wasn't a HR. The interference didn't hurt the outcome of the play. (Although conceivably, if he had managed to make the catch, perhaps the umps could have been fooled into calling it a home run, a la Jeffery Maier?) (Now that I look, Cubster has already nailed this, in the message board of the previous thread. But it's worth putting on the big board.) For his efforts, the fan was removed from the game. The more important interference came a half-inning later, on a high fly ball to the RF wall. With Cliff Floyd settling under it in an effort to make a leaping catch, another fan leans out, knicks the ball, deflecting it enough to foul up Floyd's effort to make the catch. The Umps miss this one.   Adrian Gonzalez gets a triple (a run-scoring one at that) in spite of protests from Floyd and Piniella that he could have made the catch without the fan interference. The ushers make the right call, at least, and eject the guy. (With a little help from his "friends" who happily point him out.) And a half inning after THAT, Fontenot hits a HR into the Basket. Once more, a fan makes a lunge for it. Hooray for crocodile arms, as the guy misses, and it clearly bounces in and out of the basket. Conclusions:
  1. Seeing a baseball come near you short-circuits the reasoning process in most all fans
  2. Therefore, run an electric current through the HR basket.
Return to Homepage

Comments

Agreed Trans with the current.

They need some sort of Thunderdome contraption to control the fans.

I try to defend us, but we are some of the dumbest fans in sports.

I would think that, after seeing two incidents where the fan in question affected the game directly, and not in the Cubs' favor, but also got ejected from the ballpark, most fans would thnk twice about doing these kinds of things, but then again, you would have expected the Bartman incident to have that kind of impact, and it obviously didn't.

http://cubs.scout.com/2/652029.html
Good news! The Cubs have signed 21 of their draft picks! No Vitters yet....

Most likely these aren't "fans" in the first place, I would guess. Just more idiot touristas from the hinterlands, or else locals too drunk to know how to act when a potential fly ball comes their way. Either way, we look like amateurs when stuff like this happens - and it usually happens on the Fri/Sa games when the beer really starts flowing out there.

"when the beer really starts flowing out there"???
Um... When is the beer not flowing at Wrigley?

Len thought he recognized the first guy as a regular ball-hawker from the area. And judging by the first guy's reaction, he seemed to be a real fan who understood he botched it. It was VERY close to being above the basket, he just reached a bit too far....

I don't live in Chicago anymore so I guess I am idiot touristista from the hinderland but then I have never reached onto a playing field to catch a baseball.

I also count as a tourista from the hinterlands, JAOCF. I think it has more to do wiht levels of fan awareness, beer, and natural instinct.

And, having stared down a few MLB-hit home run balls hit my way, I can honestly say that my instinct is to dive the hell out of the way!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/06/15/au...

Any time you think your job is pointless, remember this guy.... It will take him 12 weeks to grind each ball he makes...

So they are making a perfect ball to stabilize the kilogram. And it needs to have very few imperfections. I'm sure I'm not the first person to ask, but... wtf for?

Yeah, that it is the first question. But then look at the amount of time these people are going to spend on this! I mean, this guy is grind this damned thing for 12 weeks, then they have some lab lined up to determine the number of atoms that the damned ball is made of!!! This guy really needs an atomic wedgie.

Re: the article linked in #10:

You thinks that when his coffee break is over he looks at his buddies and says, "Well, it's back to the grind"

THANK YOU! I'll be here all week. Try the veal!!!!

I actually think the Bartman play is more defensible than this. With the angle of the Bartman foul ball, it appeared to be a clear foul ball and he could not see Moises camped out right below him. In the bleachers, you know that the ball is in play in front of you.

Bartman's play was a natural fan reaction...a fly ball comes towards the stands, a bunch of people stand up waiting for it to fall in their hands, they don't pay attention to the angle the ball is coming in and where the field is.

People who interfere with potential homeruns/fly balls in the field are just idiots.

In other news: from the AP game recap:
Two outs after Fontenot's two-run homer, Soriano hit his 11th of the season to deep left for a 4-1 lead. ****Soriano watched the ball sail out and went the first couple of feet up the base line backward.****

For a guy that has had about 2 hits since his 3 homer game a week ago, it doesn't seem to behoove him to showboat like that.

Blockhead,

please do not defend Steve Bartman. No matter the case.

Chad - please do not tell people who they may or may not defend. No matter the case. (that said, I loved the "grind" joke)

I know a little bit aobut the history of efforts to standardize measurements - enough to say that it's important for a bunch of boring technical and industrial reasons, but not exactly sure why.

"Most likely these aren’t “fans” in the first place, I would guess."

DMAC: I don't agree with this. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity to catch a home-run in Wrigley off of the beloved's bat, for most folks. The natural tendancy, especially with a glove on hand, is to reach out and catch it.

I go to maybe 20 games a year and I sit in foul ground territory on the 3rd base side. Personally, I'd scramble to get a shot at catching a foul ball - does this make me more or less of a "fan"?

It would take quite a bit of restraint to not try to catch a HR coming right towards me - to time it with the ball coming over the basket line - I just don't know how I or other people would react in the same situation.

I could say with utmost confidence though, if it was a playoff game, I'm not touchin' it.

Yeah, trans. I'm an engineer, so I know about this stuff, but why a sphere? why does it have to perfectly round to be a standard? why? why does this guy have to spend 12 weeks to make it? why does this guy do this? Did he step forward and ask to be the one that does this? Why are Australians recognized as the leaders in perfect spheremaking? The list of questions goes on and on...

CWTP & others...

I would like to step up to the Crow Bar and eat from the buffet as so far Mr. Fontenot is playing very well indeed.

It is a good thing and I certainly hope it continues!

Yeah, E-man. And he's doing all this in clutch situations. He's really coming through.

Fontenot already has more RBI than Murton, Izturis, Pagan and Ward.

I'm enjoying a beer in my backyard with the 90 degree heat as the cicadas serenade me.

And the Cubs are winning.

Good times.

Any thought of a TCR viewing party of a Cubs game at a Chicago bar this summer?

Chad,

To blame Bartman is ridiculous.

So when Aramis comes back, where does Fontenot go? Someone has to go, and DeRosa's not going anywhere, and you wouldn't think Theriot is going anywhere, and who knows why Izzy is still around...

"Chad - please do not tell people who they may or may not defend."

I did no such thing. Please re-read my comment. I ASKED him not to. I am allowed to do that. If he does not honor my REQUEST, that is his prerogative.

Dyson I do blame Bartman. Another moronic fan who was more interested in a souvinier than allowing the player to make a play. Did he do it with malice? No. Did he even realize that Alou may have a shot at it? No. But a real fan, like myself, thinks when sitting in the first row:

"Can he get it?"

How do I know? Casue I was thinking it while the ball was in the air. I can promise you that if I was in that seat that day, either it hits Moises glove or it hits cement (I am not saying that Moises WOULD have made that play, I'm saying that he COULD have made that play). I would have been boxing out the people around. And if you look at the still shots, there were other people reaching out but just as many with their hands drawn back to stay out of the way.

tbrock:

I say lose a bullpen arm. We don't need all those pitchers. 4 lefties in the pen?

tbrock asked: Where does Fontenot go?

Nowhere. He stays at second unless we find out that this hitting thing is a fluke. DeRosa goes to short. I love Theriot, but I just don't think he can compete with all the extra-base hits that DeRosa and Fontenot crank out. So Theriot becomes super-sub.

If DeRosa plays short anything like he plays third, that doesn't leave much of a role for Izzy, but he should be tradeable. After all, they traded Neifi based on his gold glove.

Fontenot drove in three runs today against Wells, and Lou has said that he wants a mixed lineup against lefties. He thinks that alternating lefty and righty hitters mess up a pitcher's location. I posted the quote where he says this recently but I can find it again if you want to see it. It's an interesting idea, and it suggests that Lou is not going to be looking for platoon partners for Fontenot and Floyd.

Any chance that Chris Young plunks the showboater, er Soriano, in the bottom of the 1st tomorrow?

If they throw at Soriano, then I say we throw at their star player...

Uh, how the hell is this team so far over .500? Can we throw at Jake Peavy while he's in the dugout?

#29 Eric S.............I personally would not care if Young plunks Soriano. I hate showboaters. Even Cub showboaters.

One of the positives gone from present day baseball is the Gibsons, Drysdales and Maglies of years past. Showboaters against them would be picking a baseball from their ear. No chicken s_ _ throwing at legs.

This has to be said because it simply cannot wait any longer. We can no longer deny, as fans on the whole. That Michael Barrett was absolutely at fault when Steve Bartman made his infamous blunder. Aaron B now feels better having gotten that off of his chest. Carry on!

JAOCF - I hope Young does and is tossed under the Jim Wolf (crap) precedent

I'd say Lilly's throw to Renteria's chin would have made Drysdale proud - I sure appreciated it.

DWard is expected to return before ARam. Probably for the Texas series. Rapada is most likely to be sent down again but for the life of me, since Lou isn't using Eyre except once a week it wouldn't surprise me to see Eyore come up with the dreaded Wade Miller disease and a walk to the DL.

What roster move is done to reactivate ARam may become clearer next week, as he will be hopefully be ready for the WSox series...translation: JJones might want to get a hit/rbi or two by then since Izzy already got his roster saving hit/rbi.

Just and Old Cuban (sic),

I'm fine with that but since the umpires now decide all this it's impossible for teams to regulate this themselves. Not to mention, the owners don't really want pitchers throwing at their multi-million dollar investments.

Seems to me they need to a decison about Gallegher's use (or non-use) as well. If he's only going to be used in long relief, I'd prefer seeing Eyre take on that role and let Gallagher build arm strength/experience in Iowa

Chad - Ben Christiansen is no longer with the organization, so probably not likely to see Peavy get pegged in the dugout.

Sammy hit #599 tonight at Cincy, that park is corked.

"Fontenot already has more RBI than Murton, Izturis, Pagan and Ward."

ow.

dward, aram, and miller should all be returning semi-soon...should get interesting.

parrapa the rappah and gallagher are guys that would be high on the "probably" list to go back down...barely a demotion for gallagher since he came from AA.

cant really screw with fontenot doing what he's doing right now even if he is the team's 3rd 2nd baseman...team carried cedeno early, cant hurt to carry fontenot...especially with 2 guys who can cover SS. also gives that "righty off the bench" hitting option when he's not starting.

who goes down, though...*shrug* pagan?

oh yeah, i keep forgetting fontenot dont switchhit anymore.

pure lefty...

"E-man:I don’t agree with this. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity to catch a home-run in Wrigley off of the beloved’s bat, for most folks. The natural tendancy, especially with a glove on hand, is to reach out and catch it."

I can almost agree with that. What I don't get is why a Cub "fan" would bring an opposing player's ball into the bleachers.

upon an ARam return ---DeRosa should be Platooning in RF --- along with Jacque or Floyd.

Fontenot and Theriot platooning at 2b
Theriot and Izturis platooning at ss.

DeRosa to fill in games for ARam at 3rd and Theriot at 2nd on occasion.

The mix seems to be working its way out slowly but surely.

Go Cubs. This buds for you.

Also at the game today, and a great thing to see the Cubs making key hits, hitting for power, and great pitching and defense to boot.

The 5-4-3 DP was a play that just looked and felt good. I hope Lou sees that this is THE lineup he's been looking for. I was telling a friend that except for DeRosa and possibly Barrett, this is a lineup that not only is the best the Cubs can do, but also a very good lineup, period. A lot of things to be happy about.

Responding to a comment in the previous thread, Soriano's HR was indeed a bomb, but a couple fans in the very back row of the bleachers got their mitts on it before it fell back and out of the park.

Muskrat reported that Fontenot and Soriano were flexing their muscles for the cameras after their big inning. I hope this is true, because we put a team of rookies and veterans on the field today that could be very formidable indeed. Things are looking up. Finally.

There is no way Miller stays with this team.

What do you do send down Marshall?

So... I Sammy doesn't get another HR this weekend, which is likely, he'll be going for #600 vs... The CUBS...

How Ironic!

I agree, Miller doesnt see Chicago again unless there is an injury to the rotation. Wade is starter #6 in a 5 man rotation.

Another reason why I can't stand the blog next door:

"Derrek Lee's ball appeared to absolutely, positively bounce out of the basket, a home run."

He doesn't have the benefit of the TV replays because he actually was at the game, but please Al -- don't say that you're "absolutely, positively sure" of something when 1,000,000 other people can prove you wrong.

BTW, Augie Ojeda, now a Diamondback, hit a two run bomb tonight.

gallagher cant just sit in the majors rotting unless he's getting instruction during this time from roths. he's young, his future is starting, and he's probably AAA-bound at some point.

either rapapappapada stays as the 3rd pen arm or miller/cherry come back up to contribute to the pen...if they're replacing the long guy...miller could be a choice...they're paying him...

as the 3rd lefty pen arm, that is...

I have begun construction of the Mike Fontenot worship altar in my basement. Lou likes to see guys take advantage of opportunities -- well, how 'bout that Mr. Fontenot!

Alas, the Brewers also seem to have their groove back -- 2 out of 3 vs. the Tigers in Detroit, and beating up on the Twins in Minnesota tonight.

I was at the ballpark today -- lots of good vibes. This is what Soriano must have envisioned when he signed here -- beautiful day, he goes yard, he jokes around with the LF fans, Cubs win. It was all good today.

He doesn’t have the benefit of the TV replays because he actually was at the game, but please Al — don’t say that you’re “absolutely, positively sure” of something when 1,000,000 other people can prove you wrong.

Yea... I saw that, and thought the exact same thing.

Not really sure how you can say that you are absolutely, positively sure about something that you are absolutely, positively wrong about that thing.

Jace:
Yeah, trans. I’m an engineer, so I know about this stuff, but why a sphere? why does it have to perfectly round to be a standard?

My guess is it would be easier to approximate the number of atoms in a perfect sphere. Blah.

Carlos Rubi:
BTW, Augie Ojeda, now a Diamondback, hit a two run bomb tonight.

We'll forever know him as "the one that got away". :)

I was at the game today. Great energy -- beautiful day, great performances. A couple of observations...

In the 9th after the second out, a flyout to left center where Soriano and Pie slowly converged, Pie and Soriano crossed paths and gave each other a really natural, friendly, smiling high five. These guys are clearly having fun playing next to each other. It was the kind of high five that 12 year old best friends would give each other on their bikes when meeting at the park.

If you are at a game, any game, and a fly ball is hit in your direction -- and seems to have your proverbial name on it -- your mind shuts down and you think nothing but THIS BALL IS MINE. You position yourself, you wait for it, you wait, and you go for it. You dont think about who is batting, or what the score is, or even what stadium you are in. Anyone who has had this happen to them knows it's true. (No, I am not Steve Bartman.)

Soriano's HR was a bawmb. It takes a lot to hit it onto Waveland after they redid the bleachers.

9 of 12, life is good.

matt murton is still hitchhiking to iowa...didnt play tonite.

cedeno 2/3...patterson 2/4...ryan omalley only marginally sucked for the loss...troy percival had a decent outting from the look of the numbers...rick ankiel hit a homer (16th)...

wee.

Murton was sent down 3 days ago how in the hell hasnt he reported yet? Is he protesting being sent down? Well once he gets there I hope he starts hitting so Jimbo can send him and Marshall to the ATL for Salty.

The Al Yellon blog has significantly gone down the tubes the past year. It's overwhelmed by Friends of Al agreeing to death on points. Too bad. It used to be the gold standard. Maybe this blog has potential?!?

its weird...murton complained his flakey production is the fault of a lack of playing time (whatever), but he's not playing in AAA yet.

*shrug*

Matt Murton appears to be sulking. How else to explain his not yet reporting to Des Moines. The best thing for Murton is to trade him to another organization who envisions him helping out in left field and DH. And in order for Murton to ever stick in the majors he really does need to improve his versatility (e.g., pinch hitting off the bench) and ability to play the corner outfield spots.

Possible roster moves to accomodate Daryl Ward and Aramis Ramirez? I'm guessing Sean Gallagher, who really should be starting in the minors as part of his long-range development, and Ryan Theriot or Mike Fontenot. Right now I'd have to say Theriot will draw the short stick.

"How else to explain his not yet reporting to Des Moines."

time off to be with family/friends (been done for both pattersons and others)...some other that are not as probable...

murton is a LF/DH type, though...maybe 1st...either way if he has a future as a cub soriano and his arm probably need to move over. im not really comfortable with seeing murton patrol RF in 08, but i could get with him moving back to LF.

theriot cant go...for so many reasons that arent even going into.

his issues are not lack of playing time and he's proven he can hit off the bench...SS/2nd...staying unless they wanna give cedeno another shot.

btw...so why does theriot draw the short end of the stick and get sent to AAA...especially leaving the SS open.

you gotta realize that just cuz you dont believe he can play SS that its true...and in all of reality...you pretty much have to consider as fact that the cubs and pinella see theriot as a SS and arent afraid to use him there...

Well Crunch, one of Fontenot and Theriot isn't going to stick when Ward and Ramirez come back.

Alfonso Soriano is the Cub left fielder until his contract runs out or he gets hit by a bus. That leaves Matt Murton to carve out an existence as a 4th outfielder type who can play a little of left and right, and to serve as pinch-hitter coming off the bench. Given that he has been dreadful in right, that really limits his ability to be of value to the Cubs. Murton is at a definite crossroads in terms of his major league future. He is probably destined to go the way of Brant Brown very shortly here unless he significantly increases his versatility sales pitch. It's hard to imagine any team being interested in a right-handed hitter with little run production value who is limited to one position on the field.

and why not?

there's a pagan...there's a gallagher...there's a rapada...

this is a team with 3 lefty starters and a AA kid with no buisness in the bigs barely pitching outta the pen...anything is possible...still, i'd think fontenot would be sent down before theriot for versatility you get with theriot if nothing else.

"Alfonso Soriano is the Cub left fielder until his contract runs out or he gets hit by a bus."

once again...just because you want something to be true doesnt make it true.

no one can really have a conversation or debate or whatever this is when you set rules of truth that arent truth then follow it lines based upon that.

soriano moving to RF is not radical...not even slightly...its not even new territory to be talking about. after he was signed it was discussed by the organization, the media, and soriano, himself. its in play, deal with it.

I envision one pitcher will go down and one position player will go down with Daryl Ward and Aramis Ramirez are healthy enough to be activated. I can't see Angel Pagan being the one position player being whacked given his ability to play all three outfield spots well. Not unless Mark DeRosa can be convinced to serve in a super-utility role. If DeRosa is willing to do that, then Pagan likely would be the one position player whacked.

Alfonso Soriano is a $136 million investment that has taken off ever since he was moved out of center field and back to left field where he settled in nicely with the Washington Nationals last year. You don't ask a franchise player to move out of the position he is most comfortable to play what is a difficult right field at Wrigley, especially to to accomodate Matt Friggin Murton of all players. Soriano is a permanent fixture in left field just as Derrek Lee is a permanent fixture at 1st base. That much I am willing to bet my house.

"Soriano is a permanent fixture in left field just as Derrek Lee is a permanent fixture at 1st base."

dude, you cant just make that fact and run on like it is and bark at others "well, he's not gonna move" as a response to it...its in play...your personal opinion no matter how educated, is not a fact. soriano, the 2nd turned LF turned CF turned LF'r has handled himself pretty well when he goes other places.

hell, he's not that damn slick in LF, either...he sure has an arm, though.

and damn...a move to RF doesnt "accommodate matt murton"...it fills an expensive and vacant OF slot.

i mean hell, wake up dude...its not "oh i figured out an outcome, therefore there are no other outcomes"

you dont even see how this would put floyd back in his proper LF role in all this...its gotta be about murton and fanboys and whatever...damn, man...

Whatever Crunch. I'm done arguing with you on an assinine, non-sensical proposition. Alfonso Soriano is in left field for the duration, period. Jim Hendry and Sweet Lou would certainly agree. There is nothing "in play" with respect to yet another position switch for the $136 million franchise player.

oh yeah...my bad...

soriano is the SS turned 2nd turned LF turned CF turned LF’r...

"Alfonso Soriano is in left field for the duration, period. Jim Hendry and Sweet Lou would certainly agree. There is nothing “in play” with respect to yet another position switch for the $136 million franchise player."

source?

In terms of the third outfield slot...

Cliff Floyd is a classic "stop-gap." Jacque Jones was viewed as the semi long-term answer in right field, but his bat has turned south. Next year both are as good as gone, that is unless Floyd really flourishes with the bat or Jones somehow can get things turned around. Floyd was the former right fielder for the NY Mets and has held his own out there for the Cubs. Jones is a quality right fielder, albeit one with a horrible throwing arm.

But rest assured, somebody will be playing right field for the Cubs in 2008. And that somebody will not be named Alfonso Soriano or Felix Pie. Most likely it will be a new acquisition that hits from the left side, with Floyd and Jones gone out of town.

Source? It's called reality you fuckin' moron.

trust me...i am VERY glad my reality isnt your reality.

you cant just "make things true" and get all upset when people dont follow you like a messiah or dare to question you.

you cant even give a basis for your undeniable and unmovable fact. evidently, im supposed to know this as i know the air i breathe will keep me alive. its very zen...no wait, that's f'n stupid.

Crunch, Crunch, Crunch. Silent Towel is right and should probably be God and President and Personal Trainer all in one. Arguing with him using facts, truth and reality will get you nowhere. Accept his omniscience and move on.

this guy's fun...im gonna get the home version of the game.

I'll hereby make a bet with you Crunch. Each year I purchase and am gifted tickets to around 10 or 12 Cub home games. Here's the bet. And you can quote me so lock this in the vault on this blog....

If Alfonso Soriano is moved to right field, or is even persuaded to "test drive" the position in spring training next year, then Silent Towel will hereby forfeit to Crunch all Cub tickets in his possession and acquired for the 2008 season. And I'll even FedEx those tickets direclty to your front fucking doorstep.

What's the bet on your end? Nothing. Not a fucking thing if I prove right. If you want to make this bet official, then relay your e-mail address and I will do the same. In fact, I will also go one step further and provide you with my cell phone number so we can seal the deal officially.

dude, keep your tickets...its a blog...i dont want to compete, this is not a competition...get it?

i care more about why you think he'd never move and why you cant accept that it is play even though its not your opinion of where it should go than your tickets. honestly, at this point i dont even care. *shrug*

I usually don't do this, but I agree with Silent Towel. I recall reading an article on Cubs.com that said that Lou realized that it was a big mistake having Soriano play center, that he should have just stuck him in left and figured out how to make it work.

I get the feeling that the Cubs like Soriano in left, Soriano likes being in left, and the team is better when he's there. So he'll probably be there for a while. I agree that it's far more likely that Floyd, Murton, and Jones will be gone before Sori moves over to another position on the field.

Of course, I will allow for the fact that you could be right. In the words of Yoda, "Difficult to tell, the future is."

Why don't you want to take the bet? There is zero downside on your end and all the downside on my end. If I lost my ticket allotment, I'd cry. And my wife would hit me over the head with a frying pan. So take the bet. You keep rippin' the shit out of what I have to say on this blog, even though the definition of a blog is a place where people sharing mutual interest of something throw out diverse points of view. I say Matt Murton sucks. I haven't asked you to agree with me. And no, I don't have a labroom full of 64 scientists who have factually proved my hypothesis that Matt Murton sucks. It's my friggin opinion that he sucks.

And it is my friggin opinion that Alfonso Soriano is in left field for the duration. Do I have affadavit from Sweet Lou backing it up? No. Which of course you find objectionable. In fact, you find any "opinion," especially those of pessimistic flavor, garbage. Apparently if someone dare suggest that Matt Friggin Murton isn't the second coming of Billy Williams or Andre Dawson, then they are scurrilous snake oil salesman intent on gumming up the works of unified opinion on this blog.

The Cubs are simply trying to buy some time for RF until Miggy Cabrera becomes available in '09. I see the new Cubs owner dumping a truckload of cash on Cabrera's front lawn to come to Chicago and be the long-sought replacement for one Samuel Perelta Sosa.

I'm more interested in immediate things.

(1) Can we dump Jock? Please?
(2) Can Mike Sweeney play RF three days a week? Because if he could, he's certainly available, and a Sweeney/Floyd platoon would be mighty productive.
(3) I love Felix Pie long-term. I'm not sure I'm ready for him to play everyday though just yet, on a putative playoff contender. And I don't want Pagan as his perma-substitute, Pagan is thoroughly mediocre and one of those guys that gets worse the more PT he gets (see also--Theriot, R.; Wuertz, M.) What is a better option for a 4th/5th OF on the Cubs in 07?
(4) Besides Jock, what the hell do we do with Scott F. Eyre, Cesar F. Izturis, and Wade F. Miller?

"Why don’t you want to take the bet?"

well, i told you, but for some reason you choose not to believe it i guess. therefore i must not have told you.

these rules are very confusing.

"And it is my friggin opinion that Alfonso Soriano is in left field for the duration. "

well then why the hell am i a "fucking moron" for not having your opinion.

see an issue here yet or are you still busy being a victim?

Ad Hominem
Straw Man
Appeal to Pity
Hasty Generalization

To ST's post, by the way.

433:
Thanks for the report.

Silent Towel, you are MOSTLY correct. I promise you that Soriano will play some in center and right. This year and the next. He'll play all of them seldomly but late inning substitutions will force this to happen. And injury too. But I agree, he is our left fielder for the vast majority of all the games played in the next 6 - 8 years.

I don't recall Bartman sitting in the first row, I thought it was the second. Also, I watched a lot of games in 2003, and based on that there should be no expectation that Alou would have been there to make that play. I was suprised watching it from home. Every single fan around Bartman was reaching for the ball as well, then throwing their beer and popcorn at him 3 minutes later. Everyone says they wouldn't go for it, but none of those 10 people around him had the sense to pull him out of the way or point out that Alou had decided to put his octagenarian legs to use and try and make a play. So anyone who says they would have gotten out of the way, I beg to differ. Also it wasn't interference since Bartmant's bal was in the stands. I never had a big problem with the play and the people who tormented him because of it are scumballs who I would like to throw into Tran's electrified basket.
**************************

35 year old left fielders often become 36 year old first basemen. There are probably a million Boston Red Sox fans who would have said in 2001 that Garciappar would be their shortstop until he retired.

Soriano's hitting better has roughly coincided with his move to left, but his centerfield play was no worse than his play in left (except for hitting the mound on throws) and given an off season of winterball (which the idiot Cubs managment should have let him do on the condition that he played center - just bribe whoever his manager is in the DR or whichever league he likes), a move to right wouldn't be out of the question.

If Hendry's hands are tied as ST has said in previous posts, the Cubs outfield corner candidates in 2008 are likely to be the same crew as we have today, unless you think that Kroeger or Colvin are going to play, which I doubt.
..........................................
Ronny Cedeno is tearing the cover off of the ball in AAA again, and displaying good plate discipline. If we could only get him to carry that bat up to the bigs. The Cubs won't do it because they're in 'the pennant race' but I would be all for giving him a four week shot as the starter. He's still the most talented SS in our organization and Lee will help some with his erratic arm.

The Cubs shortstops are hitting .223 .286 .279 on the season (part of that is Ronny's fault). That's a full .050 OPS worse than the 2nd worst production in the league
*******************
Why it that Murton and/or Cedeno can take a few days off to report to Iowa, but when Sammy took a day off it was the end of the world at the end of '04?

*******************
I think our sucess in one-run games has finally levelled off. We'll need a lot of luck to get that back to .500 though. It's much easier to ruin a stat like that with some sloppy play than it is fix it with solid play.

The Offesnse is third in scoring and second in scoring after the seventh now, but I don't think that scoring has been evenly distributed - a few big innings over the last month made it look really good when viewed as an aggregate. 9th in OPS after the 7th which is more indicative of the productivity I think, at least to this point.

The bullpen is still around league average in ERA, but an average bullpen with a good offense wins games as we are seeing lately. Average bullpen with no offense, like we had all April makes us lose a lot of games late.

Lilly's comments after Barrett catches his game Friday (from mlb.com)

Some of the stuff I see [about Barrett] is crazy," Lilly said. "I think, as a pitching staff, we have confidence in Michael. Look around the league, and I can't think of guys I'd rather have -- and even some guys who have reputations of being great defensive catchers. For me, and a lot of other guys on the staff, we like having Michael back there. He's had success, and he's our No. 1 guy for a reason."

You know, I had a few really awful defensive catchers that I really liked to have catch me. Guys that couldn't make a swipe tag, struggled with balls in the dirt, couldn't throw out a runner, couldn't field a bunt, but I really liked the way they called a game. Didn't matter to me. If I don't give up hits, you won't have to tag anybody. As a lefty, if I hold the guy on close enough, he's not running. I was a pretty good fielding pitcher, so I didn't care about bunts and stuff. One guy was the only catcher I've ever had to be able to calm me down when I was really struggling. He couldn't catch a beach ball. I still wanted him out there instead of our good defensive catcher because that guy was a prick. Some really good defensive catchers (starters, not backups) have a reputation of being rather tough to deal with. Those guys are calling pitches and you're not shaking them off. Period. Some of those guys cause more trouble than they're worth.

Not saying anything about the Cubs current situation, just trying to provide some insight. Pitchers prefer catchers that they get along with very well as opposed to a super defensive catcher. Maybe Lilly gets along well with Barrett.

it's not about winning the popularity contest, it's about winning the game. Whether it's a bad defensive CF, SS/2B or Catcher, defense up the middle is always important and bad defense in these positions always is costly in the long run.

Cubster — June 15, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
DWard is expected to return before ARam. Probably for the Texas series. Rapada is most likely to be sent down again but for the life of me, since Lou isn’t using Eyre except once a week it wouldn’t surprise me to see Eyore come up with the dreaded Wade Miller disease and a walk to the DL.

What roster move is done to reactivate ARam may become clearer next week, as he will be hopefully be ready for the WSox series…translation: JJones might want to get a hit/rbi or two by then since Izzy already got his roster saving hit/rbi.

======================================

CUBSTER: First of all, as of today, players who were signed as Type XX MLB FAs after the end of the FA Filing Period last off-season can be traded. Their "no trade" rights were good only through June 15th.

I think it's possible that Cliff Floyd will go back on the Bereavement List while the Cubs are in Texas, and then be reactivated (along with Aramis Ramirez) next Friday for the series with the White Sox.

But ultimately I would expect one of the two young pitchers recently recalled (Rapada or Gallagher, probably Gallagher, so he can get regular work as a rotation starter) to be optioned out, and then I would think Daryle Ward will be the other Odd Man Out (either traded or released), unless Hendry can find a taker for Jacque Jones. (Maybe the Padres would be interested--JJ is from SD, and the Pads have a need for an OF right now).

As for Ward, he is only making $1M this year, and with the season almost half-over, he only is owed another $500K+, so most teams wouldn't be put off by that salary. But trading Jacque Jones would be the preferred move.

If the Cubs do end up releasing Ward, any team that signs him would only have to pay him the prorated portion of the MLB minimum (about $200K), but that would mean the Cubs would only be on the hook for about $300K.

My prediction....

Monday: Ward comes off the DL on Monday, and Gallagher gets optioned to Iowa.

Friday: Ramirez gets reactivated from the DL, and Ward gets traded or released, unless Jacque Jones has been traded by that time.

As for Wade Miller, I believe he will accept an assignment to AAA, as long as the Cubs promise to recall him by September 1st, or trade him before then if any MLB club expresses an interest in acquiring him in a trade (as happened with Rod Beck in 2003, when he spent the first two months at Iowa before getting traded to SD).

The reason the Cubs don't want to release Miller if they can avoid it, is because if he is released and signs with another MLB club, the Cubs are not only on the hook for his 2007 salary (minus the prorated MLB minimum that the team that signs him has to pay), but also would be responsible for 100% of his $3.75M in potential incentive bonuses, which only require him to start games, not to be effective doing it. So the Cubs save $3.75M if they just keep Miller in the minors or on the DL for the whole season, or at least until they can find a club that wants to acquire him a trade (because if he's traded instead of released, his new club becomes 100% responsible for the incentive bonuses). That's why giving incentive bonuses to a guy you might want to release later in the season is STUPID.

tbrock — June 15, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
So when Aramis comes back, where does Fontenot go? Someone has to go, and DeRosa’s not going anywhere, and you wouldn’t think Theriot is going anywhere, and who knows why Izzy is still around…

==============================

TBROCK: If the Cubs want Mike Fontenot to be their everyday 2B (and he is not a utilty player, either he plays 2B or you use him as an "ace" PH), then the Cubs could employ Mark DeRosa the way Tony Phillips was used by his clubs (OAK, TOR, DET, CHW) back in the 1990's.

That is, you move him around, and he starts at a different position most every day. Some days he'll play 2B, sometimes RF, and he could also give Soriano, D-Lee, or A-Ram a day off every now and then, and obviously fill-in for any of the Big Three should one of them go down with an injury (as happened recently with Ramirez).

But DeRosa would start someplace most every day, just not at the same position every day, and on days when he isn't starting, he would be a quality RHPH bat off the bench.

I doubt that DeRosa would like it, but that's the way he could best help the Cubs in 2007.

AZ Phil, I hope they keep Rapada up for awhile to really see how useful he can be as a LOOGY and so sending Gallagher back to AA makes more sense (certainly Marmol can be used as a long reliever although I really like him in the 6th inning or later).

But having Eyre and Rapada (and Ohman) is one lefty too many especially when Eyre is not being used and not being effective. I wonder how they will deal with this especially since they put Cotts in Iowa with mixed performance by him in Iowa so far.

It's interesting that Hendry's veteran fix with 3 yr contracts for the bullpen in 06 (Howry/Eyre) now has Howry completely back on track but Eyre isn't or they would have used him in the extra inning game vs Seattle. Can they consider sending Eyre to Iowa to work thru his badness similar to what they are doing with Cotts (granted they are stretching Cotts until he's 6'7", from 6'4"...and I bet that stretching hurts)

Sending 2 pitchers out is a bit schizophrenic regarding the roster bouncing between 11 to 13 to 11 pitchers but I suspect Fontenot will stick as a pinch hitter with an occaisional 2B start once ARam gets back, Fontenot on the bench will be valuable IMHO.

So Eric the Great wants fatso Miguel Cabrera or broken back old man Mike Sweeney to play right?

I understand why the Cub's want to do that, but I think it's the wrong move. I'd send Fontenot back down with some confidence. Then he can head back to Iowa knowing he'll be in the big leagues for good some day. I don't think you wait until the league adjusts and he goes through a couple weeks hitting .100

It's fun to watch a young guy with power like that, but let's get one thing straight, he's not going to hit 407/414/852 if he stays with the club all year.

Miguel Cabrera and Aramis Ramirez in the same lineup, yikes. Hey Manny Ramirez becomes a free agent after 2008 as well, maybe the Cubs can sign him too. Imagine Cabrera, Manny and Aramis back to back to back in the order.

Imagine Cabrera, Manny and Aramis back to back to back in the order.

maybe the cubs can sign Johann Santana and Justin Verlander while they are at it.

and lets see - that would leave man-ram in center? or fatso cabrera?

dave:
and lets see - that would leave man-ram in center? or fatso cabrera?

Torii Hunter, duh

CUBSTER: I think Clay Rapada is going to stay for a while, and be used as a LOOGY (and occasional mop-up man), the same way guys like Mike Myers and Brian Shouse are used by their clubs.

It's good that Sean Gallagher got his feet wet (although it's going to waste one of his option years before it was necessary), but he really needs to go back down and get regular work as a rotation starter.

The Scott Eyre situation is a bigger problem than it otherwise might be, because he has a limited "no trade" (as does Jacque Jones), and that probably makes it harder for Hendry to trade him. But I would imagine Eyre and Jones are on the block right now as we speak, and Hendry might have to take back somebody else's disappointment and/or pay part of Eyre's and/or Jones' salaries.

SD would appear to be a possible destination for both Eyre and Jones. The two main needs the Padres have right now is corner OF and lefty reliever. I could see the Cubs paying the remaining 2007 salaries of Jones and Eyre (about $4M total), but not the 2008 salaries (Jones will make $5M, and Eyre will make $3.8M, so that's $8.8M total). BTW, Eyre does have a player option to be a FA after this season, although he would be foolish to exercise that right.

From the Padres POV, I think you could reasonably figure that both Jones and Eyre would benefit from a change of scenery, especially JJ (who is from San Diego, and is in the San Diego Hall of Champions Museum). With SD, Jones could play LF (his best OF spot), and he would probably not get the hostile reception from Padres fans when he strikes out that he usually gets from Cubs fans. And Eyre is throwing 92-93 and getting K's, he just seems to have lost his confidence. He needs a CTL-ALT-DEL "reset."

"Imagine Cabrera, Manny and Aramis back to back to back in the order."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

not to mention having 3 cerebrally challenged dogs in a row, but hey, we could at least take a year long running bet to see how many days off they each take, er I mean days off to nurse nagging injuries over the course of the year before they shut it down when the Cubs fall out of contention in August.

and come on Rynox, don't be stupid. The choice is obviously Ichiro in CF. Gotta bring in the foreign markets you know.

What moving Neifizzy?

Like to the curb, if Fontenot keeps hitting like this it would be stupid to send him down.

That would be a total Dusty move.

Sorry I'm a little late to the party, but I just wanted to vent a little about something that always bothered me. Jeffrey Maier dropped the freakin' ball. It hit that little POS's glove and bounced into the front row but he paraded around on all the talk shows for the next week acting like he actually made the catch. I hated that smarmy little bastard, and I didn't even care who won the game.

Bringing up Gallagher tells teams he's major league ready...Lets say Murton goes down and hits, and I predict he will. I'd say trade Murton and Gallagher to Florida for Cabrerra. Lets face it: this team really needs a power bat in the #5 spot and they need a true rightfielder. Knowing the Marlins, will probably have to give them a third player. I'd say someone like Ceda from single A...

ESPN says lineup has:

Soriano, Pie, DLee, Floyd, DeRosa, Fontenot, Theriot, Z & KHill

(just kidding about Z batting 8th, but they did say Floyd in RF and Theriot/Fontenot/Pie/Hill up the middle)

AZ Phil,

I think that Eyre's 10 team no trade clause includes all the teams west of St.Louis, as one of the reasons he signed here was he wanted to play close to his Florida home.

chifan3887 — June 16, 2007 @ 10:31 am
AZ Phil,

I think that Eyre’s 10 team no trade clause includes all the teams west of St.Louis, as one of the reasons he signed here was he wanted to play close to his Florida home.

=========================

CHIFAN3887: I didn't know that.

Thanks!

These Idiot's are not real Cubs fans. There is a big differance between a drunken fool and a diehard Cub fan. Next time some idiot tries to reach over and catch a ball that is in play, all real Cub diehards should beat the shit out of him on the spot or throw in on to the field and let Cliff Floyd
pumble the bastard.

Great interview w/Mike Fontenot. Talks about Renteria, hot start, etc.

"I guess my face was just at the wrong place at the wrong time." -- Fontenot talking about the Reteria slide.

lol

this team really needs a power bat in the #5 spot and they need a true rightfielder.

And Miguel Cabrera is a true right fielder? Since when?

AZ Phil didn't know something?

I find that hard to believe...

M. Giles... *sigh* hate that guy.

Z... still throwing side-armed... looking sporty early.

The Real Neal: "Every single fan around Bartman was reaching for the ball as well"

http://www.cubbiesbaseball.com/images/cubfan1...

If you look at this picture, there are 6 fans who have their hands in view. Bartman and the fan to his right are going for the ball. The three fans to his left have their hands half raised in the "whoa - step back" mode. The fan in back of Bartman has his hands to his face in the "oh my god, this idiiot is going to ..." mode.

Neal, I wanted to post that you are entriely wrong. Not everybody around him went for the ball. There are only two people in area who are going for it. Above Chuck, pic shows the the guy next to him (sorry Chuck you said it was the guy behind but it was next to him) is clearly pulled away. Most people knew to get out of the way cause they saw Alou. Bartman didn't.

No, most people got out of the way because a hard object was hurtling from the sky towards them. Watch the entire replay don't just look at one shot. Why are all their hands in the air?

TCR - the home of altered history was again.

X
  • Sign in with Twitter