Derrek Lee/Chris Young Brawl Recap, and other Game 67 Cubs/Padres things

Photos, Play by Play, Box Score, Recap, Game Center

First off, I didn't see the incident happen and wasn't planning to do a recap today. That said, here's a good effort at reconstructing what happened by watching all the replays. Eye-witnesses, please fill in the details in the comments.

So we know that the Padres were upset with Soriano's extended admiration of his home run, yesterday. Beyond that, I'm unaware of any other bad-blood between the teams. In the fourth, Chris Young goes up and in on Lee, knocking him down. The pitch hit him up high, I'm not quite sure where. It didn't hit flush, but obviously, fastballs near the head are always potential matters of life and death. While the home plate ump is busy talking with Padres catcher Rob Bowen, Lee starts walking towards first, but well on the infield grass, several feet in fair territory. He and Young start jawing. Early speculation from parachat suggests that Young was telling him to just take his base, and they were arguing over whether or not Young was deliberately pitching high and tight to Lee. Young appeared to laugh and motion at his cup (from my view of the replay) and Lee charged him, threw a haymaker right, missing. Young also missed with his haymaker (is there no ballplayer, today, who knows how to throw a real punch, not of the haymaker and sucker variety?) and like that, both benches clear. Marcus Giles was the first to arrive, sprinting in when he saw what was developing. Giles, all five foot three, ninety pounds of him, tries to tackle his own pitcher, the seven-foot five Young, very much Farnsworth-to-Wilson style. Instead of a tackle, Giles just manages to back Young off from the fray. LouPa was right behind Giles to the scene, and used his ample posterior to box out Lee. Lou might have a future in a senior basketball league. Zambrano came out, I'm told with his uniform undone and belt off, probably due to being, ah, back in the clubhouse. Peavy also came out, and Jake got ejected for his participation in the brawl. So did Gerald Perry. I have not yet seen footage of Z's, Jake's or Gerald's role in the fight. We continue with so much more, below... (Lou's post-game interview: Lou doesn't know what Young said. Thinks umps should have anticipated the situation. Nobody's hurt. Claims he's unaware of Peavy's critical remarks about Soriano. "They're inconsistent" when asked to comment on MLB's suspension policy. Doesn't know what Perry did. Warning issued by the umps "rightfully so.") Lee and Young both get ejected of course, and Lee will face a pretty big suspension. 10 games, reduced to 9, seems to be about S.O.P. these days. But given that the Cubs have sort of developed a bad rap in the last couple of weeks, who knows... Due to his departure, Izturis entered the game to pinch-run, then to play SS. Theriot moved to third and Derosa over to first. Justin Hampson came in to pitch for the Padres. In the top half of the fifth, Theriot watched a ball roll through his legs with one out in the inning. Z looked out ofsorts from there, walking two straight, before escaping with no damange on a 6-3 GIDP. Derosa then "ole!"s one at first base in the next inning. Again, a GIDP gets us out of it. But the defensive dominoes caused by Lee's ejection are pretty obvious. Off the top of my head, I'd guess Floyd becomes the first baseman during Lee's suspension, with Jones and perhaps a recalled Murton patrolling RF. If Aramis hurries back to play third, DeRosa could also take over at 1st. The no-hitter bid And as I try to get all of this down, Len informs us, in the start of the seventh, that Carlos is having what might become a "Special Day," today, pitching.... And as soon as I get done typing THAT, Zambrano makes the Ugliest Spectacular Play to Save A No-Hit bid, ever. Bocachica hits a dribbler between Z and Theriot, at third, and Z sort of staggers after it, bare hands it as it's about to bound past him, just a Jeter-esque (well, not quite) jump-spin-throw, and gets Bocachica at first. The no-hit attempt ends with one out in the eighth, as Marcus Giles hits a chopper that Z leaps to try to field to start a double-play. It glances off his glove, for a hit. If he lets it go, Fontenot likely would have been able to at least get the force at second. Really tough way to lose it. At least he gets out of the inning, untouched, with yet another GIDP. And a tough way to lose the game, as Zambrano fails to get the close call on a couple of consecutive two-strike pitches against Branyan in the 9th. Branyan then launches a solo HR, only the second Padre hit of the day. 1-0 Padres. Hoffman sets them down for the save. Unresolved Questions
  • Just what did Young say to Lee, that caused Lee to swing first?
  • Was this related to the Soriano home run from yesterday, or not?
  • Just what was Z doing prior to his appearance on-field for the brawl?
  • Is the plan to have Barrett resume catching Zambrano going to get shelved, after another fine Z performance with Hill behind the plate?
  • How long with the Cubs be without Lee, and how much of that will also be without Ramirez, and how do we shuffle the infield defense in the interim?
  • Did we really just have a fight that didn't involve Barrett?
  • To repeat my question, because it is worth repeating: is there any MLB player who knows how to throw a proper punch?
  • Is someone at TCR secretly behind this string of Cubs brawls and terrible celebrity guests conducting the stretch, in an elaborate plot to spike our traffic?
  • Is this the most disappointing loss of the year?
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Comments

The Farns, Jason Kendall and Nolan Ryan compile the shortlist of baseball players off of the top of my head who know how to throw a punch. Congrats Soriano, you're mongloidial stupidity nearly cost the Cubs the season.

Bogey,

To blame this on Soriano is crap. The Padres, like the Braves, are just a bunch of babies. If you have a problem with Soriano's stare dont throw him anything to hit or atleast if your going to BS baby games drill Soriano. That's Bush League to throw at someone else on the team and to go that high on someone.

Possible Answers to Unresolved Questions

1. Dunno, but D. Lee, more than anyone else on this team, has earned the right to the benefit of the doubt in this situation. He is a total professional who may have faltered a bit today, but I'm betting Young said something pretty nasty.

2. Almost certainly. Memo to Fonzie: ARam's injury did not open up a "designated showboater" spot on the team.

3. Don't ask. Invading Z's privacy make Z mad.

4. Hope so. Go with what works for once, OK?

5. Pagan RF, Ward 1B, Floyd RF/1B?

6. No. Any loss hurts in this recent stretch of good play, and one that costs them D. Lee for a while hurts even more. But this was a hard-fought game against a first-place team. The Pads are not the '27 Yankees, but their pitching staff is mostly nails, so there's no shame in the Cubs having trouble hitting them -- although, like Trans, I'm kind of mystified as to how Lee had trouble hitting Young.

Bogey, WRONG! Soriano has not cost this team anything.

Trans, to answer one of your questions, no this is not the most disappointing loss of the year. The walk off walk against the mets was worst. At least in that game we had it in the bag. Since Z didn't go 9 with no hits, its just another day of typical Cubbery.

I keep adding unresolved questions to this post...

I feel an existential crisis brewing.

I need to work, I hope you guys will have solved everything, by the morning.

The home plate ump was awful in some key spots today.

1. He's gotta be in between Lee and Young by the time the punch was thrown.
2. Strike 2 to Koyie Hill wasn't anywhere near the plate, in a pretty big spot in the game.
3. The fastball to Branyan was up and away, but the slider was strike three and wasn't even that close. (Z didn't get many calls all game, hard to believe in a two-hitter).

The wrong part of this incident is throwing at Lee. The Padres should have stuck the first pitch of the game in Soriano's ear hole for his classless showing in yesterdays game. I may be a Cub fan but I hate Bush League behavior from any player including Cubs.

What is this bullshit anyway? You can't show up the pitcher? Why the fuck not? I am the most old school guy here but this unwritten rule is absurd.

In football they do endzone celebrations, in basketball the do fullbody shimmies after monster dunks. Let's face it baseball player are fragile little babies. And I as a fan like what I saw yesterday. Soriano was proud of himself and showed it. GET OVER IT ATL/SD.

Answering the questions:

1) Young appears to be saying, "I wasn't throwing at you" - Lee didn't believe him and took a terrible swipe. Seriously, he tipped Young off by setting the right to the chin with a tap on the chest with the left and they played duck, duck, goose. Then Lee appears to take a wide right turn to get behind LouPa and thus begineth the "hold me back, hold me back" game for which basebrawls are famous.

2) I really don't think so. One ran up and in - it happens. Then again, Young is a control guy who hasn't plunked many people. Lee was expecting a slider away and got a high, hard fastball. He was leaning in.

3) I just thought his belt was broken in the ticklefest behind homeplate. I didn't see him come racing out of the clubhouse late to the fracas./ He might have, though.

4) Yes

5) 10 games without Lee, and I'm not sure when Ramirez DL stint expires, but you can bet that MLB action will probably be handed down on Monday, appeal process draws it out - so Cubs might be without both say, 4 games?

6) Yes.

7) Not currently active

8) No. There have been worse.

Well, whether we think the unwritten rules of baseball should exist or not, they do. Soriano, after this long playing, knows this. So when he does shit like that we and he have to then expect repercussions.

ChiFan it's how the game is policed like it or not....it's been that way for a century you're just now realizing that? Admittedly Young had no business throwing at the hands/wrist area, if you're going to drill someone it should be directly in the back and yes in a guy-code world Young should have large enough marbles to throw at Soriano since that's where SD's beef exists, but that would've been obvious and Young would've been run from the game immediately after. I'm sure Young felt the same way we all did and that D.Lee would have been the last player we would have expected to rush the mound.

and I love when Chad chimes in to call someone WRONG on a simple opinion without any reasoning...in all caps on top of it...what you couldn't break out the "you must not watch games!" patented Chad argument?....

CHAD:

You are so right.

There is no "old school" anymore dudes in professional sports. Sorry to my fellow "old school" enjoyers.

We have an "old school" manager who when applying these ethics, gets dissed by some of his players - who are millionaires - and they can't take it. The "old school" manager backs down.

It is ALL entertainment now and the almighty corporate bottom line. PErhaps Japan, or Latin America still has some appreciation for the old-time baseball ethic - but showboating and celebration are just part of the whole entertainment business model".

Ironically, I am watching the US Open right now - what do they break to? Today's Wrigley fight!

#12: yes in a guy-code world Young should have large enough marbles to throw at Soriano since that’s where SD’s beef exists, but that would’ve been obvious and Young would’ve been run from the game immediately after.

This, like the ATL scenario, points up yet another flaw in the disciplinary system. Young should not be allowed to have his cake and eat it too, and yet this strategy -- throw at an innocent player, lamely claim lack of intent to injure, get off scot-free -- is entirely condoned year in and year out. It shouldn't be.

Pell, that and Young will get suspended for 5 games which essentially means one game to a SP, and then he'll just have one more day of rest and basically continue to pitch on his regular schedule whereas D.Lee will get 3-5 games and actually miss 3-5 games. MLB is amazingly moronic in nearly everything they do.

Maybe Chad and E-Man would prefer WWE to baseball?

There should always be a place in the world for class and good sportmanship. I would prefer MLB was one of those places.

I actually didn't think the Soriano homerun was that bad, he turned to watch it, but he kept running towards first. I would rather have someone do that than just stand and watch them like chowderheads Ortiz and AramRam.

You would think that MLB would scale the sentences so that they multiple the suspension for starting pitchers by 5, and for relievers, by 3.

Ten days lossed for a batter = 50 for a starting pitcher, or 30 for a reliever.

If you don't want Young run, you bring in your "Whale Shit" for the first batter. Drill Soriano and get "Whale Shit" and Bud Black ejected then get on with the game with Young pitching. I would never let a classless act by Soriano stand.

For Chad, who doesn't know baseball, Whale Shit is the mop up pitcher on the team.

Nah, that would make too much sense Trans. Next thing you know MLB would incorporate a worldwide draft like every other sport and then they'll get crazy and start marketing the stars of the game and put playoff games in time slots that won't alienate a generation of kids. That's just crazy talk.

Lee always conducts himself as a model professional. This year I have noticed more displays of frustration and emotion from him, which isn't a bad thing.

However, there are so many different ways he could have reacted to whatever Young said: continue to jaw all the way to 1st, gesture suggestively as to what he may or may not do to "pleasure" himself, etc.

Instead, he threw a rather poor punch. So the mystery is: What did Young say to cause a guy like Lee to go straight to a "I am going to try really awkwardly to knock you out" level of anger? Racist comment? Something about his daughter?

Look at Zambrano funny and he'll probably come after you. Derrek Lee? No way. Had to have been pretty bad, whatever Young said.

Still doesn't justify taking yourself out of the lineup for the foreseeable future.

Meh.

2 hits...2 walks...one of the most important cogs signs himself up for a suspension.

great game...nothing wrong with this team.

damn...sigh.

I do enjoy it when people surprise me. Zambrano was totally in control all game, and Lee started a fight. Hooray for a bit of variety in life.

All I've ever heard about Young has been positive, so it'd also be a surprise if he said anything too improper....

Lee's punch was fine, it just didn't connect. Young's punch was pretty sloppy. Did you ever watch Roy Jones Jr box? Sometimes he threw punches and they didn't land. That doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the punch.

Tran's supsension idea makes no sense. If a regular get's suspended 10 days, that's about 6% oh his season. If a starting pitcher get suspended 10 starts that's about 30% of his season. How would that be fair?

I didn't see any crotch grabbing and watched it like 5 times, are you talking about when he goes to his belt as he's walking towards the catcher after the pitch?

My mouth reading skills come up with 'Hey man I'm gonna throw inside'. I don't think it was intentional, just got away from him, regardless what he said.

Answers!

-Lee thought he was intentionally hit and the lieing made him more angry.

-Not

-Sitting on the bench thinking about his next at bat.

- Maybe, but Zambrano has added 5 MPH to his fastball over his last three starts. Was Barrett telling him to throw it softer?

-You appeal the suspension until Ramirez is back. Then you send Fontenot down and call up Hoffpaiur for 9 days.

- Barrett undoubtedly told Lee that Young was going to work him outside in that at-bat.

- Ask Michael Barrett

-It's Carrie Musket as a favor for stop calling her Muskrat.

-I would say the day of the Zambrano-Barrett fight gets my vote.

Zambrano said after the game that on a day as hot as this ( I was there and it was like a sauna today) he changes his jersey every three innings. That's why he was only half-dressed during the fight.

All I could think during the fight while the idiot fans cheered was, "Now no Lee or Ramirez for a week." I was at the game in '87 when Dawson chased Show after getting hit and you didn't mind it then because with Dawson holding a bloody towel, you knew he was out of the game anyway.

With what Peavy and Wells said about Soriano in the papers, the ump absolutely should have walked up the line between Lee and Young. Hell, most umps do that even when there is no bad blood between the teams.

Neal - Iyou probably already knew that I was aware that boxers miss punches. I think the real issue is whether or not it was a good punch or not. I don't think it was. It was off balance, telegraphed, long, loopy, out of control

Yes, there's an imbalance in the percent of a pitcher's season missed compared to the hitter's, under my suggestion. The current formula also is unbalanced, but unbalanced in a way that favors the pitcher. Given that it's the pitcher who is doing the throwing of the baseball, which could kill a batter, and the batter who is swinging a fist, which just might hurt the pitcher, I think that when we re-weight the suspensions, that should be considered. If a hitter misses ten games, let the (starting) pitcher miss ten starts. Yeah, that's a bigger chunk of his season, but he also has a greater potential to ruin somebody's life.

Big Z appeared to be taking his belt off to whip someone, since when they showed him his hands were not a)trying to pull up his pants b)put his belt back on if he had actually been in the bathroom or c)getting ready to grab and/or punch someone. Z was instead taking the belt out of his pants with his right hand and grabbing it with his left to form a loop to whip someone with. Thank God a player and coach saw him and pulled him away. I don't know what kind of suspension the knucklehead would have gotten had he succeeded.

It also looked to me like DLee asked Young twice if that was on purpose, and Lee seemed to repeat Young saying "yeah," before Lee said "WHAT?" and threw a punch.

The thing that is so bs in these situations is that DLee will get suspended anywhere from 2-5 games, or so. But definitely more than 1. Young will get suspended 5 games but only actually miss 1. And making a starting pitcher miss a start isn't a big deal anyway because he can just be pushed back one day. MLB needs to figure out a better system for equally penalizing a starting pitcher and a position player in these instances. The best way is probably just to take 5 full game checks from each of them. Hit them in the wallet.

"Maybe Chad and E-Man would prefer WWE to baseball?"

I don't know what WWE is.

I know that like it or not - and I do NOT like it - showboating is part of ENTERTAINMENT which is JUST WHAT PROFESSIONAL sports is today.

Perhaps you want to just watch Single A baseball and turn off your MLB package - but Wait - I forgot - you are the guy that hasn't even been to a Cub game in what? Ten years?

So you are locked in a time warp. Things have changed since 1997.

Trans,

The odds of a pitch killing the batter are probably worse than the odds of one punch killing somebody. Ever hear of Harry Houdini?

Being telegraphed has nothing to do with the quality of a punch. Also you don't get to choose your balance when throwing a puch, it just is what it is, although it affects the punch, you don't have a choice in the matter. Are you suggesting he should have bounced up on the balls of his feet and brought his left up to guard? Finally, watch it again. The fist goes straight towards the left side of his jaw, then hooks violently towards his head. It's a pretty good right cross. Right crosses mostly work when your oponent is trying to set up his own or over-reacts to a fient with the left, but the punch itself was fine. Had he he not telegraphed it, it most likely would have sent Young to the hospital and put Lee on the DL for 6-8 weeks.

The two subsquesnt punches are pretty bad, because they make the typical baseball players' mistake of being more concerned about their pretty faces than hitting the other guy, and are trying to keep their heads back as they throw them.

E-Man I went to a Cubs game last year. I told you that before. Do you have a learning disability?

http://www.wwe.com/

It should be right up your alley. It's full of people strutting around like they're God's gift, has lots of loud music and the occassional scantily clad woman. I would suggest you support McMahon's effort to buy the Cubs.

I also am going to go out on a limb, and bet that Neal also knows that I am aware of Harry Houdini, and that E-man has no learning disability.

Why do people ask rhetorical questions instead of make good arguments?

~grin~

"you don’t get to choose your balance when throwing a puch, it just is what it is"

That's a new one. Is it like how you go to war with the army you have, not the one you want?

"E-Man I went to a Cubs game last year. I told you that before. Do you have a learning disability?"

You know, I refrain from insulting you. But I won't now, asshole. So, you went to your one Cub game in ten years. BFD - whatever. Then you should know that professional team sports, baseball, football, and basketball is about entertainment and branding. Individual players manifest their business model. I do not like it - but this is what it is.

I usually scan over your petulant postings - and in fact, your prior trollish insulting forced you to resort to change your moniker previously to "Formerly Angry Neal" or whatever the fuck it was when Rob G admonished you.

But this time I responded to it and all you do is insult.

What a jerk.

If a guy wants to pimp a home run, I'm going at his dome the next time. If he sucks, I'll go at their best player's head. Throw me out. Charge the mound. I don't care. Clear the benches.

If you want to show me up, I'll have your face beat up my fastball for a while. I don't flex muslces or go nuts whenever I strike you out or you GIDP. I don't talk shit to you while you're going back to the dugout. I got you to chase a curveball, I'll see you in a couple of innings. You hit a home run, run the bases like it ain't the first one you've ever hit and I'll see you in a couple of innings.

Guys pimp homers all the time now. That's true. Fonzie's done it more than twice, but two times the other team has retaliated and it's ended up costing the Cubs in the long run.

Memo: We condone all punking of the Cubs by the following: opposing pitchers, runners who go into second base throwing punches, umps who run Cubs pitchers without warning, umps who stand around jawing with opposition catchers while opposing pitchers say, "Take your base, motherfucker!" to Cubs star player seconds after buzzing one at his chin. We condone this activity because we prefer to treat the Cubs organization and fans like the sickly kid in 3rd grade who used to pick his nose. It makes us feel better to have a scapegoat. Get used to it.

I'd like to see Jake Fox brought up. He's a RH hitter that plays 1B, C and OF.

He may not stick beyond the suspension period; however, he'd be exciting to watch and possibly surprise everyone.

I'd also like to see 1B Micah Hoffpauir so that DeRosa can return to 3B; he's a LH hitter and probably won't get a call as long as both Jacque Jones and Daryle Ward (due ti return Tuesday) are on the team.

Scott Moore may be be viable 3B option. He hits LH with decent plate discipline and some pop.

I would think they'd prefer to have DeRosa back at 3B until Ramirez returns; that may mean that Ward will play 1B (ouch) unless Izturis or Jones are moved to open a spot on the roster.

All interesting suggestions, Geo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that you have to play a man short, when someone gets suspended. We can't bring in a player to fill Lee's spot on the roster. If we're going to bring up a position player, will require sending down one of our relievers.

Does anyone know where i can find today's post game interviews?

Scott moore needs to be the callup IMHO. He can play 3rd and 1st better than anyone on the roster, save for DeRosa. He is already on the 40 man roster as is. Send Rapada down. Call Moore up. Then you already have guys in Chicago ready to handle whatever is handed down by MLB. It sure sounds better than watching Cesar play ever day.

Legel - off the top of my head, try chicagosports.com . It's the Tribune's website, and in the Sports/Cubs section, it probably has some video clips.

Checking there now, they have several post-game clips of earlier memorable games in the season, but not today's, yet

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

tried all of the usual haunts.. but nobody ever seems to post clips of post game or pre game lou or player interviews... it's a shame that nobody puts these online for those of us no longer in the Chicago area (who cant see on CSN)

Sure, Soriano didn't exactly sprint to first after he jacked his HR but I don't see how that's much different than a pitcher pumping his fist or whatever after a K (see Zambrano). If you can't handle that stuff, don't throw junk over the plate/make contact. I would prefer it if everyone acted "like they've been there before", but players get excited over their accomplishments just like everyone else in the world. Get over it.

Thanks Legel, that was worth listening to.

Is it my imagination, or has that fucker Branyan beat us with a solo HR before either with the Reds or Brewers? I have such angry memories of him harvested from somewhere.

"and I love when Chad chimes in to call someone WRONG "

You claimed that Soriano has cost us the season. This is wrong. Plain and simple. Nothing that he has done has cost us this season. If you think he has then please explain. Tell me how Soriano has put us in the position we are in now.

Oh another thing.

And this goes out to all you haters who tell me that I don't know about baseball.

The UNWRITTEN RULE of baseball is that if a guy showboats, you do 1 of 2 things:

1. Hit the next guy (as Peavy mentioned)
2. Wait til the showboat comes up again and hit him.

These practices were not employed as the braves waited until the next day and the Padres waited til the next and AND threw at a player other than Soriano.

And Neal, the punches these guys throw suck. I have seen wannabe tough guys fight all my life and those wild swinging punches you saw there were terrible and ineffective. That's why boxers don't use them. If Derrek Lee knew how to throw a punch we would have throw a jab right at Youngs chin and knocked him on his ass.

There's a difference between a fist pump after a big strikeout in a game's crucial moment and a solo home run. It was already 3-1. It wasn't like he'd finally broken a scoreless tie.

If I get off the hook in the seventh by K'ing two in a row with the bases loaded, I'm going to be excited. If that guy hits a home run, he's going to be excited. He probably just won the game for his team. I'll give him that much.

But get excited about shit that's worth getting excited about. It's a solo home run. There's a big difference between a solo home run and a walk-off home run. If a guy goes deep off of me to win the ball game, let him celebrate. If he tacks another one on after his team had already taken the lead and then wants to admire it, he's going to get plunked. Or somebody else is going to plunked.

I have to agree with Chad and E-man its apart of the game now. The HR Soriano hit was crushed, it wasnt like Ram who posses for basket shots. Young's a coward for not hitting Soriano and for hitting someone in a spot of previous injury

Quiet Riot,

Yes Branyan has beaten us with the Reds on a HR in a 1-0 game. He did it in Sept, 2003 in a game Z pitched. I was at that game, and thought croosed my mind during that AB today.

My dad used to remind me when I was in little league...

If you don't like getting shown up, then play better.

I'm not defending it. I'm just telling you why Fonzie got hit last week and why D-Lee got hit today.

Pitchers take offense to that stuff. A lot. And they'll bean guys for it. Sometimes in the face. It's different in the low level minors when guys can't throw a heater at 97. 85 in the helmet is different than 95. You don't see as much throwing at people's heads in the show because fastballs at 96 and 97 will seriously hurt somebody (see Greenberg, Adam.) I've seen it Happen an awful lot more in the Indy Leagues, rookie, or A ball, though.

there has been bad blood between these teams as recent as last year

remember last year and Roberts kept stealing bases late into the game eventhough they were up 7-3
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/wrap.jsp?ymd...

as a fan...ALL i care about (besides no cub is injured)...is that DLee has given himself 3-5-10 games off of work...no roster replacement, nothing.

its b/s...could care less if he connected or what it was over...all that matters to this fan is DLee just gave this team what it didnt need.

I agree with Chad"s "unwritten rule". In the old days pitchers demanded it ,today it"s hard to tell.

Chad, regarding post 48, the Braves didn't violate your criteria. From what I read they were most upset about Soriano trying to stretch that single into a double in top of the 9th with the Cubs already up big and where he had no real shot and was thrown out easily. The Braves then hit Soriano during his first at bat the following day, the next opportunity that arose. I understood that one.

WISCGRAD, if that is the case then I agree. They did what the should do 'in that case'. However, I would say it had to do with more than just that double. It was probably the entire game.

CHAD: "You claimed that Soriano has cost us the season. This is wrong. Plain and simple. Nothing that he has done has cost us this season."

oh Chad....like the PBS after school special used to proclaim, "reading is fundamental". Here's my original comment..."Congrats Soriano, your mongloidial stupidity nearly cost the Cubs the season."...in reference to his Bonds-esque HR staredown. Anyway, keyword here is "nearly".... NEARLY Chad, as in if D.Lee's wrist was snapped like last year ...got it now?...this really shouldn't have to be explained.

If I wanted to get technical on you I could argue Soriano's fabulous April line of .270/.308/.392 with 0 HRs and 1 RBI...and 2 SBs cost the Cubs some W's...but I don't want to get all statty on you Chad. I know how you hate that.

Something that's been overlooked and underdiscussed is how Peavy jumped into the fray and tackled Lee in a really aggressive way, driving him to the ground. He seemed to enjoy that a little too much, and he was ejected for it. In light of his comments yesterday about Soriano this should be a big story.

My take on the unwritten rules is that they exist whether we agree with them or not, but they are really weird and meathead-ish. It would be like if a linebacker celebrated a lot after a big interception, and then on the next possesion the offense ran a crazy play where 8 guys ran right at him and blocked him hard into the ground as his punishment. It would be second and 13, but dammit, they would have made their point!

It's just so silly. "I'm just so mad that your guy celebrated yesterday! So, I am going to throw this baseball at you." It's times like these that I am reminded that MLB is basically full of very talented yet simpleminded, uneducated (unless you count high school), alpha male meatheads.

Yes and no. It's true there are a lot of dumbass people playing professional baseball. I believe there are currently fewer than 7 players with a college degree(if that is your standard of educated...but there are a lot of dumbass college grads), and then if you start counting the latin players many of whom never even really went to school then yes there are a lot of rockheaded players around today. However, most of this garbage is passed down through the old guard of coaches and instructors.

hehe...ankiel w/ 3 homers off iowa tonite...19 homers for him

Anyone think that maybe the Cubs are just a little frustrated by what was supposed to be a stellar season. They made the big off-season splash in Soriano and now aren't playing up to the hype. A-Ram is injured, D-Lee is slumping, and Barret is...well....call Barret what you will, he's not performing at the level he was last year. The team has lost a lot of games they should have won and could have won easily.

My point is: when things aren't going well the stress starts to show. Ordinarily calm players may make bad judgement calls and let their fuses' get a little short. My opinion is that Soriano's homer gawking was just a little too-overboard appreciation for something finally gone right and Lee's altercation was just pure heat of the moment anger out of things gone wrong...again.

you would have a point cyon204 if the cubs lost 2-3 from seattle, 3 of 4 from the braves and 2 straight aginst the padres. They have been playing well lately

there is no way Peavy doesnt get suspended as well

True, Kevin, of the team, however I was wondering more about the possible thoughts of the individual players. Lee had a good night last night, but by far as of late he's been slumping. I just wonder how much everything else has been weighing on them. Probably would me. But then again, I'm not a major league ballplayer.

Just speculating.

The "unwritten rule" is a response to poor sportmanship.But I understand the confusion, because "good sportsmanship" has been dead for a long time.

maybe this is that cubbie swagger that
lou was talkin about , i still like where this team is heading
jones and eyre need to go

my choice would be to bring up micah hoffpauer
probally spelled that wrong.
we can drop to 11 pitchers next week due to
interleague play.

I too like the direction of the team. Its good to see some youth being effective in the big leagues.

looks like d. ward was taken out of game before it was over in iowa could be up tomorrow.

Tim Kurkjian on BBTN suggested Lee would get a 3-5 game suspension. If that is the case I think Lee will appeal it until July where the 7 games of the month are @ Washington and Pittsburgh.

I love posts like #68 from Cyon based on absolutely nothing.

For your information in June Lee is hitting .310 with a .410 OBP and in the last 7 days he has been hitting .385 with a .467 OBP......sooooooooo where "as of late" has Lee been slumping? Ohh i get it, he is slumping if he isnt hitting .390....got ya.

I want to see a zambrano vs Peavy fight. Who would win? Let the two teams settle this mess by letting these two go at it in a no holds bared match. My money would be on the big thugish Zambrano. I don't think that Peavy's white boy suburban upbringing could save his ass from "Big Z". Zambrano woul;d kill little Peavy.

Sheesh...quit yer whinin' and bitchin...the ball got away from Young...there was no intent...plain and simple. If the Pads were going to throw at anybody it would have been Soriano. Lee was jawjacking at Young and Young told him to take his base. Lee blew a fuse and started throwing punches...what is it with Cubs players anyway? Anger management, anyone?

Bard...I doubt that a control pitcher like Chris Young "let one get away" up and in lie that.

Lee was wrong, but why did Young step towards him?
Lee is not known for being a hothead...so something must've set him off.

Go back to trolling.

If Young had stayed near the mound, there would have been no problem. Just because a player gets hit, it doesn't mean he's being thrown at. It takes two to Tango, as they say, and Lee and Young were both at fault.

Thanks for the link about Houdini, regardless, there have been more people killed in the world by a first punch, than by thrown baseballs since the batting helmet has been commonplace. Kidney, temple area, throat, a 'heart punch' a professional athlete can accidnetilly kill someone.

Bard, if you're unhappy about a batter admiring a homer for a little too long, there are two guys you go after:

1) The guy that hit it.
2) The team captain.

If you don't think that plunking the guy that hit it is going to give you the desired effect, go after the captain. One to the crown of the guy in charge of the clubhouse will make sure that the offending party doesn't do that anymore.

lee was most wrong in this one. with a big assist from the umpire. perhaps the mlb office will discipline the ump as well...

and nary a comment on 6 innings of sorry-ass offense against the padre bullpen? 2 doubles and 0 walks? zambrano deserved much, much better than this.

happy father's day. and let's trust that the cubs can get the best revenge of all = winining another series today. hill v. maddux should be a nice matchup for the cubs.

I was lucky enough to watch the game with my father yesterday. And when Z was being squeezed by the ump, he said "Z has shown up the umps too many times to get any close ones." I agree.

Answers to questions-

Young said something personal, Lee had a reaction of "What?!?!" like Ron Burgandy did in "Anchorman" when he was told his hair was stupid.

I'm sure Peavy bitched about Soriano to the pitchers about it, including Maddux who can be a bit of a red ass about retribution ask Andre Dawson.

Z was getting a drink of water which he drinks from his athletic cup, a bizarre ritual and frowned upon by the organization.

If Z needs Hill to catch, than by God give that mental midget Hill.

I believe Barrett yelled to Lee as we walking to first "Did ya hear what Young called ya?!?!?"

No good punchers in MLB, I believe Bill "Spaceman" Lee put it best when described a fight between the Yankees and the BoSox in 78 as "Hookers swinging their purses at each other."

I blame this on SeasonOver.

The Mets game with Dempster was worse, but hey its still early.

HAPPY FATHERS DAY.

rokfish — June 16, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
looks like d. ward was taken out of game before it was over in iowa could be up tomorrow.

================================

ROKFISH: Daryle Ward may have completed his rehab at Iowa, but he is not eligible to be reactivated from the DL until Monday (tomorrow) at the earliest.

What Derrek Lee did was stupid, but plate umpire Mike Everitt didn't do his job.

When a batter is hit by a pitch and is able to stay in the game, the plate ump is supposed to walk along with the batter a ways up the first base line, remaining between the batter and the pitcher until the batter and pitcher are focused somewhere other than on each other, and (if necessary) directing the pitcher to get back to the mound if he starts to approach the batter as he walks to 1st base.

Instead of doing his job, plate umpire Everitt was engaged in a conversation with the Padres catcher at home plate, giving Young and D-Lee the opportunity to talk to each other as Lee walked to 1st base, and thereby allowing the situation to escalate into a physical confrontation.

I'm sure D-Lee, Young, Peavy, and Perry will get a few days off, but the plate umpire should be suspended, too.

I think I'd rather see Barrett get a chance at 1B during Lee's suspension over Ward. Barrett is athletic enough to handle it, I think, and his bat is really being wasted as pseudo-backup catcher. Besides, if Barrrett is really on his way out, it could be a nice way of pumping up his value before the trading deadline.

And as much as I love Mad Dog, I hope the 40+ Mad Dog shows up today so we can really tee off on him. This team was finally starting to play well and we need to put yesterday behind us quickly.

vorare-
Not a bad idea for Barrett at first.

vorare — June 17, 2007 @ 8:52 am
I think I’d rather see Barrett get a chance at 1B during Lee’s suspension over Ward. Barrett is athletic enough to handle it, I think, and his bat is really being wasted as pseudo-backup catcher. Besides, if Barrrett is really on his way out, it could be a nice way of pumping up his value before the trading deadline.

===========================\

VORARE: Since D-Lee will certainly appeal and delay his day of reckoning to somewhere further down the line (hopefully at least until after Aramis Ramirez has returned to 3B), Mark DeRosa will hopefully be available to play 1B during Lee's suspension.

Unless the Cubs trade Jacque Jones sometime in the next few days, I still think Daryle Ward could well be Odd Man Out once Ramirez returns from the DL (hopefully next Friday as DH vs the Sox, and then back to 3B the following week).

BTW, I do believe a Jacque Jones trade to SD could well happen (and possibly sooner rather than later), what with the Padres in town this weekend.

As I mentioned in a comment yesterday, Jones is frrom San Diego, and not only would he probably benefit from a change of scenery that would allow him to play LF every day, it's VERY unlikely that Padres fans would boo Jones as Cubs fans have done over the past couple of seasons. Jones is a member of the San Diego Hall of Champions. He's a Well Respected Man in San Diego.

The Cubs would probably have to pay part of Jones' salary ($4M this season, and $5M next year), but I can't see Jones remaining in Chicago much longer. He really has got to go, both for his benefit, and for the team's benefit.

I gotta say, I hated seeing Soriano admiring his HR ball, and if I were an opposing pitcher, I'd probably do the same thing the Padres did.

This team has not earned the right to showboat considering we're not even at .500 yet. Just shut up and play already.

AZ Phil-

Maybe when JJ was returning the sunglasses to the Padres coach after the fight he was saying "You guys need to trade for me before I get killed with these nuts!!"

I think that the best 'retaliation' today would be a blowout game against the Pads and continue to 'pour it on' as possible (stolen bases, hard slides, etc.) to send a message that the Cubs do not respect the Padres. Where this offense will come from - I do not know, just hope.

As a fan...F that team anyway. I still have visions of Steve Garvey with his fist in the air jogging around in his circa 1984 Taco Bell uniform.

az phil.

i was thinking the same thing yesterday when i saw the highlight (i can only listen here in brooklyn) and the ump was talking to the catcher, probably about whether or not it was a foul tip. the ump should definitely have been between lee and young half way up the basepath - it seems to me that's what normally happens. i only hope that the league takes that into consideration, as well as d lee's character and spotless rep. i don't know what young said to lee, but it certainly seemed to be something along the lines of "yeah i threw at you, so what?", whether sarcastic or not, it set lee off. also, i think that when a pitch is thrown at your head, it should be taken into consideration by the league. a pitch at the head is an entirely different thing than a pitch in the butt. it makes sense to me that lee would think of it differently too. i hope it is only a 4 or 5 game suspension. and i agree with your take on the ump being suspended as well. he did not do his job.

Jock Jones for Rob Bowen...

A four game suspension (one series) seems plenty for a man protecting his livlihood..

I am surprised that Floyd hasn't played any first, he needs that skill given his age and outfield ability. That said, if Rami is not ready, I agree with AaronB-bring up Moore or Kincade...

Michael Barrett would be a great super sub. He's played 3rd, could probably play the outfield and 1st...

mid-june...cubs been involved in 2 fights starring 3 major players...

outcome: missing barrett for a few days, dlee about to earn himself 3-10 days suspension. cubs seem to be about as "together" the the late 70s Oakland teams only without the wins.

i can do without that kind of "fire" "spark" "clutch" "magic pixie dust" etc.

My hatred of the Fathers dates to 1984, but I admit I would hate them a tiny bit less if they took Jock off our hands.

Jake Peavy is a P-U-N-K. Screw him.

early 70s oakland...my bad...the "dick williams sucks even though his teams are winning" teams from one of the first modern era clubs where the inmates ran the prison.

The Cubs were up something like 9-1 when Soriano tried to stretch a single into a double in Atlanta. When that game ended, the Cubs were up 2-0 in Atlanta and were 4-1 on the road trip. Two days of beanballs ensued, and the roadtrip ended 4-3.

Whatever Soriano did or didn't do, the Braves used it as a motivator and it worked.

Now we're in another two-day beanball deal and so far it seems to have helped the other team.

The home run Soriano hit on Friday was fairly meaningless; we were already up 3-1. If he ever hits a home run that means something, then (a) it will be his first one as a Cub and (b) the other team might not mind the showboating as much.

wgn game today :)

Va Phil,

If Lilly wasn't ejected we would have won that sunday game. He was on top of his game with the 1st 2 hitters and Len said that Rothschild said Lilly also had a great pen session before the game.

Crunch,

yes its WGN game if that was a question. ALL 3 vs. the SUX are too, but you have to mute Foghorn Leghorn on Saturday.

:) = a smile

im just happy its a WGN game on what's become my weekly Fox-forced "yanks, rsox, braves" game. i understand Fox is spending a bunch of loot and only broadcast 3 games for their game-of-the-week, but if you're east-side you get yanks, rsox, braves almost exclusively on sunday.

geez...where is my mind today?

fox = saturday.

yeah...woo...sigh...

chifan said: If Lilly wasn’t ejected we would have won that sunday game.

Sure, but I was trying to trace his ejection back to Soriano.

I suppose Hill will be ejected today.

Soriano, Pie, DLee, Barrett, DeRosa, JJones, Fontenot, Theriot, RHill

vs.

MGiles, Cruz, Gonzalez, Cameron, Greene, Bocachica, Headley, Bowen, Maddog

Transmission said: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall that you have to play a man short, when someone gets suspended. We can’t bring in a player to fill Lee’s spot on the roster. If we’re going to bring up a position player, will require sending down one of our relievers.

A suspended player cannot be replaced; therefore, Jones or Izturis and a reliever (Eyre | Rapada) must be moved to make room for Ward and one of the players I mentioned to replace Lee in the line-up.

Va Phil,

If Wolf would have said before the game you hit someone your out I am sure Lilly doesnt throw at Renteria and they let Eyre take care of it later in the game.

"I doubt that a control pitcher like Chris Young “let one get away” up and in lie that."

if i heard right, he didnt hit anyone all year

Here's what was said by Lee and Young on the way to first base...
I was watching the game as it happened, and i read lips due to deafness.
Although this was a few days ago by this point, here's the jist of it.....
Lee to young: "You didn't do that on purpose, did you?"
young to lee: "what?"
Lee to young: "that wasn't on purpose, right?" (or another variation of that)
young to Lee: i never saw a camera angle that shows his mouth for the first comment, but when they do get a view of chris young's face, he says.....
"And I'll throw at you in there next time."
Lee: now using "non-verbal" communication, says "I don't appreciate that!!!!!"

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