Game 68 Thread/Padres @ Cubs (#3 of 3)

Game chat Rich Hill (5-4, 2.81) vs. Greg Maddux (5-3, 3.86) This will be Maddux’s second start against the Cubs since he donned the blue and gold and brown and tan or whatever the hell the Padres’ colors are. The Mad Dog threw five innings in Wrigley back on April 17th, coughing up a 3-1 lead and settling for a no-decision in a game the Pads would eventually win in 14 innings. By the way, since Jim Hendry shipped Maddux west last July 31st, the now 41-year-old Hall-of-Famer-to-be has gone 11-6, 3.59. With a win, Hill will equal his victory total for 2006. The young lefty is coming off a no-decision Tuesday against the Mariners, in which he had a very spirited and well chronicled dugout discussion with his catcher, Michael Barrett. I hope someone has spoken to Hill since then. He needs to know that displays of raw emotion are simply not the Cub Way.
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while id love to still have Maddux, if he was still here his numbers would be nowhere near as good just because of Wrigley. You can make a lot of mistakes that stay in the park at Dodgers Stadium and Petco

I hope Soriano hits a bomb in his first at-bat and runs backwards Jimmy Piersall style. I know I would. I expect that both teams will be warned before the game. I hope.

according to pre-game lou hasnt been warned about warnings to be issued before 1st pitch...said it could happen at any time before 1st pitch, though.

I hope if Soriano hits a HR, he shuts up and acts like a grown, mature man. I hope we win with class and stop acting like a bunch of petulant children.

We stop acting like petulant children? You got that backwards. Getting home runs hit off you and then throwing at players is the actions of petulant children.

Last year the extremely boring play was one of my primary complaints about the Cubs.

I must admit that even though the Cubs still are not a very good team, they have become much more ineresting to watch.

GO CUBS GO......Go Hendry Go away

We stop acting like petulant children? You got that backwards. Getting home runs hit off you and then throwing at players is the actions of petulant children.

Can't both actions be those of petulant children?

no. Petulant children don't hot dog it around the basepaths. Petulant is pouty, sad and whiny.

no, petulant is more like unreasonably irriatable or impatient. Depending on how you view the situation either side could be petulant here - whichever side (or both) that you think is overreacting and griping about it.

Does anybody happen to know how Chad feels about this issue off hand?

Does anybody else happen to know if Chad has ever allowed home runs?

bleh...

Great pitching!

Even better, now we're going to Arlington. More great pitching!

Also, from today's notes at cubs.com:

"Piniella mentioned that DeRosa may play right field when Aramis Ramirez returns from the disabled list. "I read that," DeRosa said. "Until it happens, I don't have an opinion about it."

Atleast the Brewers lost. I hope Lou uses Pagan in RF in TEX and DH's Floyd. My ideal lineup would be

Sori
Pie
Lee
Floyd
Barrett
Font
Pagan
Theriot
Derosa

Use Dero and theriot to create some RBI chances for Soriano.

Hope Soriano took note today of how a big leaguer should run out a homerun.

You mean like Ortiz, Pujols, and ManRam run out homers?

Hope Soriano took note today of how a big leaguer should run out a homerun.

Actually... Cameron did watch his first home run. Not like Soriano did, but he did watch it.

Watching it is one thing, running down the line backwards is another. And anyway, Soriano routinely will hit a fly ball and sit there watching it until he figures out it's not a home run before he starts running.

I have a huge problem rooting for this guy, and I wish I didn't.

Personally, I'd rather put DeRosa at five to help drive in Lee and Floyd if they get on base. Get some speed down there at the bottom that wraps back around to the top.

Perhaps this?:
Soriano
Pie
Lee
Floyd
DeRosa
Barrett
Pagan
Fontenot
Theriot

I might even been inclined to hit Pagan sixth.

And, I hate to say it, Izzy is still a 316/362/388 away from home. That sample size isn't that tiny, either.

#18..Johann..........I also have a huge problem rooting for Soriano. At this point I consider him a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.

I wish I thought more highly of his maturity.

I wasn't aware that Soriano's current behavior is similar to his previous stints in Wash and NYC - was he hotdogging it in those places as well? He came in with a rep for a great attitude, wonder if those reports were inaccurate.

How is Soriano any different than any other player? It is the 21st century. It is not his fault that other teams have Sandy Sandiego's (Anchorman Joke) because he hustles for a double and admires a HR he crushed.

Jesus Christ! What year do you live in JustanoldCub fan. Ernie Banks doesn't play any more. This is the state of baseball today. And if you can't root for Soriano, then quit liking baseball. It's been documented that his teammates love him wherever he has played. He gives 100% and is a top player. He goofs around with the bleacher bums and is quickly becoming a fan favorite. But you don't like him cause he admires his home runs. My God! Go back to 1969!!!! Please!!! Go now. There is no place for you here in 2007.

There is no place for you here in 2007.

Uhh... yea there is.

If anything, there probably shouldn't be a place for those who say "there is no place for you."

BTW I hope Peavy had a stern talking with Cameron for admiring his HR.

No dave,

If you can't root for a player and you beef him is that he admires his home runs that you are 100% out of touch with baseball reality. Look around. Soriano's actions are a dime a dozen. Tons of players do it. Does that make it right? HELL YEAH IT DOES. Why? Cause it doesn't hurt the sport any. Its not tainting record books or giving anyone an unfair advantage. It's not making the game a lesser product. In fact, it makes it better to see that a guy hits a home runs and FUCKING CARES ABOUT IT. Its nice to see some emotion out there. Its nice to see that these billionaire babies actually care.

This the state of the game and if you don't like it, you need to leave it.

If you can’t root for a player and you beef him is that he admires his home runs that you are 100% out of touch with baseball reality.

Thats not my point.

Your arrogance is just silly. You have no right to tell someone else that there "is no place for you here."

You can disagree with someone. But do not pretend that your opinions are facts.

get over yourself dave. it maybe hyperbole it maybe overstatement but don't take a statement like that so damn literally. I'm not saying he shouldn't be posting at this site. I was insinuating that he should get in a Marty McFly DeLorean and go back to 1969. You do know that it's not possible, right? Do you see the difference. Don't be such a whiny bitch.

With your temper and lack of...understanding.. for differing opinions, I have a feeling you would feel very differently about this issue if you toed the slab every fifth day.

Nobody would ever be allowed to to stare down a home run hit off Chad. No way.

Just browsing teh intertubes and came across this image....makes one wonder, doesn't it.

OK, Wes, nice half assed jab. But whatever. I guess it takes a player to understand this game. And not just high school you really need to play pro ball or semi pro like you Wes. You DA MAN!

But then again, more and more the GMs of baseball never played professionally. Strange, huh?

Anyway, would someone stare down a ball against me, no. But I wouldn't be a pussy and talk about it in the media. I wouldn't wait til the next day. I would hit the next guy up there. Right in the ribs. And I wouldn't say anything about it after the game when I got tossed.

Furtermore, I would also look at the field and see my friends out there and know that if I hit someone, thye might get hit too. And maybe they wouldn't like getting hit. So maybe I would just keep my mouth shut and try to strike him out next time. and when i did, i would pump my fist and make a scene on the mound.

Wasn't trying to make a jab. Wasn't trying to insult you. Was trying to make a joke. But you take everything seriously, so I should have known better.

Sorry, man.

And I think there are certain things that it does take playing experience or just being around a a ballclub everyday to understand.

Some people think about this game as a fan and what they would have done if they were a player. What you would have done and the way you would have acted isn't always necessarily the way things work in a clubhouse.

I'm not trying to act like I know everything and that I'm smarter than everybody because I failed miserably in pro ball. It's not a chest-thumping thing. Although I see you clearly construed it as such, ass.

I didn't even bring up the general manger thing, but it has been noted that I have said on multiple occassions that ball players are stupid. I don't want stupid people running baseball teams.

I just want everybody to see what I saw in my time in a clubhouse and see the game from that point of view. Being at the park 10 hours a day is drastically different than finding your seat 45 minutes before game time with your pencil and scorecard ready.

Fine Wes. Then tell me:

I assume there was a time when you got shown up and hit the next guy. Or hit that guy the next time he came up. Then, if you played ball for a while (IIRC, you played for many years) you saw after you got your little revenge, your best player, and perhaps a friend, got hit in the back. Then you two go to the clubhouse and as he takes off his jersey and there's a baseball shaped welt on his back so bad you can swear you see seams he looks over at you and says, "No dude, I know you HAD to throw at that guy. No one shows you up."

I'd say I'd been in about maybe 8 or 10 of those situations where I intentionally threw at a guy as payback. I did play organized ball for "many years". But, let's say I played affiliated ball for a couple of years. Played some indy league for a while, too. In all but one of those bean ball situations it wasn't the way you described.

Guy hits home run. Guy watches home run. I hit guy who watched home run his next time up. I tell why I hit him while he walks to first base. Problem solved. Or I hit their best player. And he goes back in the clubhouse and shows the guy his welt tells him to cut that shit out. It's over and it's done. It's in the past. Players understand that. I'm pretty sure D-Lee understood why Young hit him in that situation. It was that he hit him in the mouth that pissed him off. If Young hit him in the abdomen, it probably wouldn't have been a problem.

Also, pitchers aren't always the ones deciding to hit guys, either. I had a manager in the northwest league who would call for it. We didn't get to hit a guy unless he called for it. No exceptions. I plunked a guy without the sign and he came out and yanked me in the third inning when I hadn't allowed a baserunner.

I think it's more common in the big leagues that a skipper will call for a bean than the average person might think. I'm sure you recall that crap Ozzie caused last year when his kid couldn't hit a guy when he asked him to. I doubt Bud Black called for that, but it's possible.

I even had a couple of catchers who didn't like what hitters were doing (peeking at signs, looking at where he was setting up, talking dirty about his lady) and he would have me hit a guy. I think my favorite story about that was a catcher who had me a hit guy because the guy was wearing girl perfume. He came jogging out and told me to hit the guy because he smelled like lilacs. So I hit him. He asked what it was for and I told him that the catcher said he smelled like lilacs. He said he liked the smell of it. My catcher said he was pussy and it was over. I bought the guy a drink later and it was cool.

Back to the point, the aforementioned lone exception was more similar to your scenario. I was in a wood bat league in the NE. The other pitcher came back with one in one of our guy's ribcage. I talked to him when he came back to the dugout and told him I'd make it up to him when I went back out there. I threw a first pitch fastball to the first guy's head and the benches cleared. My guy had an ugly bruise, but he got a couple punches in. Somehow that ends up a wash. He wasn't mad that I got him beaned because he got to hit a guy in the mouth. Got suspended for a few days, but that's not the end of the world. Again, I restate that ballplayers are stupid. That was the only brawl I ever started.

Most brawls start because one team won't let it go when they were supposed to. Your guy screwed up. I hit your guy. It's over. If you hit one of my guys, everybody's coming down from the bullpens. I think it was over last week in Atlanta and Lilly just had one get away from him.

One final thought... For some reason, a bench-clearing brawl is like hitting the reset button. Guys don't throw at anybody after that. There's no more bad blood between the two teams. I didn't watch the game today, but I gather that nothing happened. We're in a big pile on the mound and you punched a guy in the nuts. Hope you got your money's worth. The slate's clean. We'll shake hands tomorrow during BP and everything's fine again. Doesn't make a lot of sense, I know, but that's how it happens.

That's my unabridged experience in beanball festivals.

Situations where you hit a guy for no good reason are typically why one of your own guys gets hit in return (the payback bruise that you're talking about in #35). A slow curve that doesn't take the break is one thing, but sometimes guys get thrown at with the hard stuff for no reason.

I can't really say I ever had anything like that. I didn't hit guys for no reason. In some leagues I played in I had to hit, too. I was a lefty hitting right-handed. Didn't want any more pain in my throwing arm than necessary.

The Padres didn't need to do anything today. They kicked our butts and not a single player walked up the line backwards. That's, dare I say it, how you win the World Series. Not by showboating, but by playing good baseball.

Bonds, the best player in baseball and as much of an ass as he is, never showboats. He hits a HR and runs like he's done it before. There are many, many examples of players who don't act like immature children in sports, and many of them are stars. I could care less what anyone else roots for, I root for mature, classy players. There are a couple glaring examples of players on team who simply do not fit that bill, and I personally hate having them on my team.

But hey, that's a personal thing there, and I suppose I should fly back to 1950.

Johann how old are you? Barry Bonds stands at home plate and admires his homers. Constantly. He one pirouetted out of the batters box.

And no showboating wins world series? Tell it to ManRam.

TO THE MODERATORS:

I think personal beanball experiences of Wes should be elevated to a TCR post.

Wes:
Guy hits home run. Guy watches home run. I hit guy who watched home run his next time up. I tell why I hit him while he walks to first base. Problem solved.

Padres pitchers are just being whiny. I propose MLB renames them the San Diego Madres.

Boo hoo, he trotted down the line like 80% of the rest of baseball's home run hitters.

I played college baseball for former major league All Star named Dick Siebert. If a player had pulled a "Soriano" on his team, he would have met him at home play with directions to a seat on the bench.

Siebert also had a little success. He won three College World Series titles at a northern college.

Bonds may run like he's hit a homer before but to stay standing at the plate and watching the arc of his homers like a golfer admiring a long tee shot is also showboating.

And when Chad described the welt left by a baseball as so bad "you can swear you see the seams" - I'm here to tell you that you can definitely see the seams. Each and every little stitch. And those welts were left on me by just high school and Division 3 college pitchers. Clemens must leave the league president's signature on you.

Sweet Jesus, this would be so Cub-like...

With the Cubs headed to Texas, rumors are out in full force, claiming the Cubs are eyeing a Rangers reliever. The New York Daily News speculated Sunday that manager Lou Piniella will urge general manager Jim Hendry to pick up a "power relief arm a la' Eric Gagne" before the July 31 trading deadline.

Link

Cub's going after a pitcher with a history of arm problems? Never!

Has Soriano had many homers this year that a person could consider crucial to us winning the game? I know that he had the three home run game and his performance was impressive and he did win that game for the team. But haven't most of the few homers he has had this year been pretty "quiet" in terms of impact? Does anyone know how many homers he has had in the 7, 8 and 9 innings?

Personally, I think Soriano overdoes it with the way he admires his home runs. ARAM is into admiring his shots every once in awhile but then he will hit one and it seems like he is conscious that he should not just stand there an stare at it. He will stare for a moment and then break into a pretty good run, for him at least.

Also, Soriano's home run numbers are so far behind what he did last year, and what most of us thought he would do this year, that overdoing it with the admiring of his home run shots seems a bit wrong, like maybe he should wait until he is a prodigious home run hitter again before he acts like a slugger.

The lack of the long ball is hurting this team now with ARAM out and with DLEE transitioning to a singles and doubles hitter, at least so far this year anyway. Also, Barrett, when he even plays, no longer is hitting homers. Same comment for Jones. Derosa's power also seems to have gone away lately. Floyd also seems to be more of a doubles and singles hitter this year.

The New York Daily News speculated ...

So in other words, the NY Daily News has no clue what they are talking about, so they are going to make things up.

Olney reporting Andy McFail is expected to be named Chief Operating Officer of the Orioles...and that he will attempt to bring in Joe Girardi as the new manager.....gehhhh.

Man, another long embarrassing weekend for our Cubbies. Derrek Lee even losing his cool?? You know things must be tense then. And WTF is Zambrano doing? He looked like a crazed lunatic who just escaped out of the loony pen running onto the field half dressed. But amazing the Cubs are only 6games back in the loss column for the division championship. Woo to the worst division in MLB history!!

Also, Barrett, when he even plays, no longer is hitting homers.

Ummm... not quite. Barrett has nine (9) home runs, which puts him on pace to hit more home runs (i.e. 20+) than he ever has in his career.

When I seen Z strugling with his belt, it sent a chill up and down my spine... Reminded me of those days when i had my father soooo pissed off he couldnt even get his belt off to whip me with it... That was a scary site!!!

Dave, how many homers has Barrett hit the last month? What I said is that he is "no longer" hitting homers, meaning he is not hitting homers of late and was hitting homers at one point. I do realize that his playing time has been diminished the last month so he has had less opportunity to hit homers. My main point was that no one has been hitting homers with any frequency of late.

Barrett's homeruns by month:
April - 4
May - 3
June - 2

Basically his power has remained consistent, and better than previous years.

He really has two homers in June?

I guess he did hit that one in Atlanta...

Well... that is not quite true.

Barrett's AB/HR per month:
April - 19
May - 30
June - 19

But honestly, Barrett's power has not been the issue for the Cubs. So he did hit for less power in May per at-bat.

Wes... he has two home runs in the Atlanta series.

Barrett has actually been hitting the ball quite well lately.

Here are his June numbers: .289/.357/.474

Those are pretty good numbers, and much closer to what he should be doing all the time.

And not to split hairs, but you say Barrett's power has remained consistent. The home run swing is, but the power isn't. Nothing else is, really.

He has have 16 home runs each of the last three seasons, including last year when he played in 30 fewer games. Yes, he does have nine currently, which puts him on base for approximately 19 if he plays in 130 games this year. That doesn't tell the whole story of his power, though. His slugging percentage is still the lowest it has been in his time as a Cub by over 50 points.

04: 489
05: 479
06: 517
07: 427

He's on pace for only twenty doubles (lowest as a Cub) and over 80 strikeouts, which would be a career high by plenty. He's on pace to hit into more double plays than he has since 1999. His .252 average would be the lowest in a full season since 2001 when he put up a 208/280/398 in Montreal.

But you are right, better lately. Maybe coming out of it.

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