Game 71 Thread/Cubs @ Rangers (Last of 3)

Game Chat Ted Lilly (5-4, 3.69) vs. Vicente Padilla (3-8, 6.57) Longtime American Leaguer Lilly is 4-4 lifetime against the Rangers, 1-1 last year as a Blue Jay. Padilla, the former Phillie, is 3-4, 4.40 lifetime against the Cubs, though no current Cub hitter has done much against him (D-Lee, 4-for-20; DeRosa, 3-for-16). Beginning with Tuesday night's series opener, 20 of the Cubs' next 26 games were/are against teams with sub-.500 records. Hard to slice it any other way--it's a drag to be coming into this game hoping to merely take two of three instead of trying to complete a sweep. Plus it was hell last night having to watch all of those clips of Good Sammy at the post-game press conference, spreading happiness and light.
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Soriano LF
Fontenotpie 2B
Lee DH
Floyd 1B
DeRosa 3B
Bowen C
Pagan RF
Pie CF
Theriot SS

Fontentot-2, Pie-8.

Things are already looking up.

Floyd at first? Hmm. Thought Ward was playing today. Bowen's first start too.

Sweeps are nice (I hear) but two of three on the road isn't bad, even if it's the worst team in baseball. At least they beat our No. 5 starter (through 2009, shudder).

For them: No Lofton, No Sosa, Yes JHJ. =)

Odd, Len and the beat writters all had Ward playing 1b. I guess this means Ward either gets DFA'd tommrrow as AZ Phil suggested or he "reaggrivated" his injury to give Jimbo enough time to deal Jacquestrap.

Derosa should be hitting 8th or 9th in case his migranes come back and Izturis has to replace him again.

i guess pagan gets a chance to show
why he should stay up or why hes
going down .

Guys lets not get nuts about Marquis right now.

5-4 3.38

If he comes close to keeping that up we will be fine. I know you guys don't like wins (and I'm not a huge fan - but i think its still an important stat) he can expect to win 12 - 14 games. Maybe we are overpaying for it, but that's not bad for a fifth starter.

The reasons I like wins is that you look at your starters, get an idea of how many wins you can get out of them and you have a good idea of how many games your team can win. After all, there is a reason they give wins to pitchers and not position players.

odd...mlb gameday has ward at 1st batting 4th.

Chad - Yes the overall numbers are obviously good. He had a stunning April.

But as long as we're taking a snapshot of a period of time, how about Marquis in the last 12 months? Anyone have that handy?

the real batting order

Soriano, LF
Fontenot, 2B
Lee, DH
Ward, 1B
DeRosa, 3B
Bowen, C
Pagan, RF
Pie, CF
Theriot, SS

I was just thinking this morning that Pie should move down and Fontenot up. It's nice to have a manger that thinks most of the time and changes things rather than one that stays with the same old ideas until they rot.

Milton Bradley just got DFA'd by the A's. I wonder what he did this time.

I just noticed this is game #71... what a long ways to go. Baseball is not for the impatient.

Lots and lots of trade rumors concerning the Cubs floating around today. Unfortunately every one I hear concerns the the Cubs getting another "over the hill" washed up outfielder.

its rumor season...so many become nothing...we're in for a few weeks of it.

this is the time of year, along with signing season, where the paper writers and TV talking heads get to play "what if" and "sources say supposedly maybe kinda-sorta" along with the current health of ferris bueller in relation to his ice cream choices.

don't know if this has been mentioned already, and if it has, i am sorry. ESPN mentioned a rumor of Griffey going to the Cubs. They didn't say who would go the other way, but one of the commentators on the show said that he thought it would take Lee, Soriano, and Zambrano. He was obviously joking, but if we could get Jr. for JJ and some minor leaguer, then I would be very happy.

"Chad - Yes the overall numbers are obviously good. He had a stunning April."

Yes he did and his numbers are starting to normalize. All I think we need him to do is post a low 4 era and hang around in enough games to keep us close and possibly win 12 -14. I think that's realistic.

jones pull power could have been attractive to CIN (more than some other teams) thanks to jones' low price tag and how much the park LOVES left handed pull hitters (ball flies out of the right-right/center alley).

problem is jones isnt elevating like he used to. a lot of bad contact popups, groundouts, and "not enough pop" warning track outs. its been so damn ugly...its not the jones that was here last year.

ZHL:
"But as long as we’re taking a snapshot of a period of time, how about Marquis in the last 12 months? Anyone have that handy?"

I think we can see the return to the norm with Marquis that most of us expected this year after April...

April: 3-1, 2.35 ERA
May: 2-1, 3.38 ERA
June: 0-2, 5.19 ERA

I love the idea of getting Milton Bradley. It seems low risk, high reward.

wow... a .328 sluggling line for jones. i knew it was below .400 but wow, that's horrid.

baseball america breakdown of the barrett trade...not much new territory to explore/learn...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/n...

Good moves NOT made by Hendry:

Schmidt 3/44
Bradley
Padilla (I was for this guy!)
JD Drew

How about Jones, Murton and Gallagher for Jr?

i was for padilla, too...surprised how ineffective he is (and it isnt his park's fault).

i was wondering why schmidt wasnt being followed til he showed up in spring STILL throwing 80s. scarey stuff...surprised the dodgers took that chance after seeing him work out.

"JD Drew"

He seems to be out of his slump and has found the power that was missing in April (291/344/582 in June).

BTW - Without Peeking - WHo is Older:

Jr.
or Uncle Cliff?

Watching the game on gameday....this umpire is calling some balls way outside strikes. Hope fully that works in our favor...

girardi turns down O's offer.

So let me get this straight. It's June 21st and the Cubs have are several games under .500 and 8 games out of first place. Yet the solution is to go out and acquire a severely broken down Ken Griffey Jr.?!? And sometimes I wonder why this team hasn't been to a World Series since 1945. Jim Hendry has his head so far up his ass. I am counting the days until this idiot is gone.

The E-Man:
BTW - Without Peeking - WHo is Older:

Jr. seems the natural choice. I didn't look.

yeah, a rumor is fact...run with that silent...go man go.

btw, tejada is just a phonecall away and BAL cant wait to unload him.

Memo to Jim Hendry

Dear Jim,

Instead of wasting time trying to pry Ken Griffey Jr. away from the Cincinnati Reds, instead why don't you concentrate on fixing your broken down farm system and actually making deals that improve the ballclub for the long-term. I don't know if you picked up the paper today, but your Chicago Cubs are under .500 and 8 games out of first place despite your pissing away huge dollars on lousy free agent signings, etc. Trade for Jason Saltamacchia from Atlanta. Package Sean Marshall and a top 5 prospect (Sean Gallagher? ) within the organization to get him.

Yours truly,

A disgusted fan

wow...ask and you shall recieve.

bbl..im gonna go find religion.

Yet the solution is to go out and acquire a severely broken down Ken Griffey Jr.?!?

Define "severely broken down."

Because at last check, this is Griffey's line:

.285/.384/.566 with 19 HR.

He is third in the NL in home runs, 15th in OBP%

RYNOX:

Bingo! Nicely done...

38!

Silent Towel:
I don’t know if you picked up the paper today, but your Chicago Cubs are under .500 and 8 games out of first place despite your pissing away huge dollars on lousy free agent signings, etc.

See my earlier post about this...

Rynox:
I just noticed this is game #71… what a long ways to go. Baseball is not for the impatient.

The Cub's are far from out of this. 8 games back after only 71 games doesn't justify rebuilding the team. Trading 5 top prospects for Saltamacchia? Are you sure that really helps the organization long term? That fixes the farm system?

despite your pissing away huge dollars on lousy free agent signings,

Like who? Soriano has been lousy? DeRosa? Lilly (who, btw... you said was going to win the cy youn)? Marquis?

All have been been quite good signings at this point.

That Rob Bowen trade was brilliant! He's an on-base machine!

TOWEL:

Do you send these to 1060 W. Addison too?

"Broken Down" farm system is a push now, ST evidenced by the players who have been helping give life to this dead-ass team.

Perhaps at the position player area to some degree, but the pitching side has been pretty damned decent, and continues with nice prospects in AA.

Neal Cotts did not come from our "Broken Down Farm System".

bases loaded 0 out...blah blah blah...sigh. who needs runs anyway?

Glad I only saw that on scroll and not TV or radio ... because I just about exploded as is.

Does somebody piss in your cereal daily ST?

Bases loaded, no outs, crap pitcher on the mound.....you can fill in the rest.

Jacos,

If only Cincy would say 'yes' to that deal!

I'm going to severely challenge anybody who thinks the Cubs should go after Ken Griffey Jr. How on God's green earth does acquiring Griffey magically transform this team into a World Series contender in 2007?!? What kind of arrogance does this organization have where they think they are good enough to compete in 2007 even though they are several games UNDER 500 as of 6/21 and have a highly dysfunctional lineup, a lousy shortstop situation, no catcher and one of the most wretched bullpens in baseball?!? Teams like Detroit or Boston or the Yankees or Dodgers go after a guy like Griffey, because they are already good teams on the cusp. But 2007 version of the Cubs?!? Good grief no.

An intelligent GM, a visionary GM, a GM in the mold of John Schuerholz or Billy Beane....he would be looking to tear this thing down and build it properly for the long-term...he would be aggressively hunting the market for a legitimate long-term solution behind the plate...he would be doing everything in his power to facilitate the development of a gifted prospect like Felix Pie. Instead, we are saddled with the dim witted Jim Hendry, whose days are consumed trying to shed the roster of his ill-fated previous moves. Hendry can't see the forest through the trees. Hendry is a fucking idiot on all dimensions. He is a dim witted high school baseball coach trying to masquerade as a big league GM.

I guess we missed the memo that scoring three runs is easy. I took a short walk around the office to cool down, sit back down and bam.

CA Phil - I believe you now have your answer...

wow, Santo overheard right now on WGN talking in the background after Cubs fall behind 3-0.... "it's like watching (garbled) every fucking night, and I'm tired of it"

I have to agree to say no to Junior.

He is 37 year old, and has suffered a rash of injuries over the last 3-5 seasons. If the Cubs were hanging onto a 1st place lead, or were looking to push themselves into 1st, that's one thing.
This team is not one player away.

No dice.

Yes, a broken down farm system. Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot are each 27 year old aging suspects, as opposed to long-term answers. The league is rapidly catching up with Theriot, and they will soon do he same with Fontenot. Matt Murton was a vastly overrated slap hitting singles hitter who the GM convinced himself could be an answer in the outfield.

Felix Pie is the only "quality" out of this farm system in a very long time in terms of position players. And in the case the jury is still out on whether he is going to be a special ballplayer or merely a poor man's version of Juan Encarnacion.

I'm not going to argue with a bunch of mamby pambies who think everything is hunky dory with the Cubs right now. The proof is overwhelming it is not so.

Jace, lol. I've changed my mind ST, you've convinced me. JH is responsible for each and every rumored trade involving the Cubs, not to mention the Iraq War, Global Warming and Paris Hilton.

he would be doing everything in his power to facilitate the development of a gifted prospect like Felix Pie.

How would Griffey get in the way of the development of Pie?

It is interesting how ST tries to diffuse other's valid refutations of his arguments by either not acknowledging them, or averting and switching to another argument.

GO ST!!

....and then depression set in.

Dave, what does Ken Griffey Jr. do to enhance the prospects of this ballclub actually becoming good and competitive within the next couple of years? Answer is nothing. The Cubs are a bad team right now. In my view, the season officially ended June 1st. Yet Hendry is incapable of pulling his head out of his asshole and is so desperate to win this year in order to save his job, that he's actively pursuing ancient broken down players like Griffey?!? Please. It's a framing issue. Hendry frames the current situation and stubbornly insists the Cubs can win big in 2007. He's out of his frocking gord! And the last thing I want is for this lame duck pile of crap GM to go making moves that further compromise any sort of positive future.

So... the scouts are wrong about Bowen's plate discipline?

Man, what a pathetic show of offense thus far.

Floyd is a deluxe, proven run producer.

Griffey isn't...

End o' Subject

Yes! 4 hits and 3 walks in 3 innings, and no runs.

As Jack Nicholson asid in "Cuckoo's Nest" -- what a ballclub!

Did Gerald Perry tell them not to hit HRs this year?

What do you expect from an offense that includes Alfonso "swing from my asshole at every pitch" Soriano, a power neutered Derrek Lee, a still developing Felix Pie and an assorted bunch of veteran and younger crap?!? Seriously, who on God's green earth would delude themselves into thinking this is the type of lineup associated with a good competitive ballclub.

Season over after June 1st? Jesus christ, that's tossing in the silent towel a bit too early.

I'm morbidly curious... ST your hired as GM of the Cub's... you have unlimited resources, what do you do?

Yeah Big John, because acquiring Ken Griffey Jr. is the missing piece of the puzzle for getting this team fitted for World Series Championship rings this fall. So lets act like typical Luvable Loser frocking Cub fans and delude ourselves into thinking that we are on the cusp of greatness right now. Pardon me while I go barf.

what does Ken Griffey Jr. do to enhance the prospects of this ballclub actually becoming good and competitive within the next couple of years?

Well... first of all, I never said anything about what you are asking.

Second of all, I do think that Griffey is, and can continue to be, a productive player for a couple of years. The Cubs have a very strong core - Lee, A-Ram, Soriano, Lilly, Hill that will be productive for the next couple of years at least. You may as well try and win with those players.

that he’s actively pursuing ancient broken down players like Griffey?!?

Once again, you have yet to define "broken down," as Griffey has been one of the most productive hitters in baseball this year.

But go ahead and ignore Griffey's actual production; it is easier to just make up things and pretend the guy is "broken down."

I don't know if that level of self delusion is anywhere near the level a certain wash cloth who thinks anyone wants to read six of his diatribes a day.

you really have to be special to lose 2/3 to this stinking pile of a Texas team. kudos to you, cubs!

Silent Towel already told us he was trading Murton and Gallagher for Dye last week.

end o' subject

Trading for Dye.....great idea...(shudder)

Somebody better clue Bowen in.
CUBS DONT WALK

Trading for Dye…..great idea…(shudder)

Yea... good point. So Griffey (.285/.384/.566) is "broken down," but Dye (.232/.289/.427) would be a great player for the Cubs to pick up.

Ah... the Silent Towel school of logic.

The cubs have a very strong core?!? Huh? Alfonso Soriano has been an extreme disappointment to this stage and appears to be a stats whore ala Sam-ME Steroid during his Cubbie days. How many times has Soriano struck out or squelched a rally? How many times does Soriano do his damage when the game isn't on the line? Derrek Lee isn't anywhere near the ballplayer he was in 2005, which leads me to believe his wrist injury is still an issue and/or problems at home with his daughter are taking a toll. Rich Hill is a major league average pitcher (at least I hope so). Ted Lilly is simply okay. And again, the proof is in the pudding. Some of you really ought to read the NL standings column in the newspaper from time to time.

2007, the first year that the final standings were decided on June 21st! Why even play the rest of the season?

I think if Griff could play CF that would add a lot of offense to this lineup. Pie can "develop" in AAA. I'm not all that impressed with Pie, never have been. I like him, but his swing is ridiculous.

By the way... It's amazing how pitchers have the best outings of their career against the Cub's. How does that happen?

Dave, Real Neal and E-Man...

Pull you head out of your assholes. Are you watching today's lovely contest against the dynasty that is the Texas Rangers?!? Vincente "Cy Young" Padilla is mowing down the Cubs. Meanwhile, the Cubs have already stranded 72 baserunners. Etc, etc.

Seriously, I'd like to know what in the heck some of you young people are smoking. How on earth do you continue to defend this steaming pile of dung on the field?!? And newsflash all of you Ryan Theriot lovers....he's rapidly morphing back into the career triple A ballplayer that he has always been and will always be.

Felix Pie needs to reconstruct that swing of his. There are simply too many ways to get him out with that long, loopy swing and the manner in which he stands in the batter's box. God help us if he's Corey Patterson reincarnate.

Are you watching today’s lovely contest against the dynasty that is the Texas Rangers?!? Vincente “Cy Young” Padilla is mowing down the Cubs.

Great argument... Have you seen the game today? The Cubs suck!

But yea... I guess I should pull my head out of my ass and start making up shit like you do. That would make everything better.

And I would still like to know how someone who puts up this line of .285/.384/.566 is broken down. But you will never answer it, because you never respond to anyone corrects your made up assertions.

How are Jones and Izzy doing, by the way?

It took me a while but Cubfan has returned. His name is Silent Towel. Anyone remember Cubfan? I thought he was long gone. But he tricked us. He just changed his name. It's unreal how truly clueless you are. You want to tear this whole thing down? And do what exactly? You seem to have a problem with every player on the team. So let's get new ones. Your plan sucks and will never work. You see that is simply not how things are done. Give it up already.

Oh and as far a Griffey Jr. goes, depending on what we would have to give up for him, may not be a bad move. If we can trade away Jock Jones and some middle of the road prospect, I'm all for it.

chad calling someone clueless. hmm

I agree with the Silent Towel - A move for Griffey makes no sense -- we are not World Series Ready. Griffey would help a team like the Angels or Dodgers, but he'd be a 2 year guy for the Cubs, which in the long run, would only put us back a few years.

Instead - focus on Right Field and Catcher, and perhaps a top notch closer.

I'm thinking Stallamachia for Hill or Marshall (plus a prospect) would be a great move -- OR go out and get Brad Lidge while his value has diminished. (if houston would trade him in the division?) -- perhaps patterson and Smarjzia would do it?

The problem is, Chad, the Reds have a history of asking for too much in trades. There's no way in actual reality they're going to give away Griffey for a struggling outfielder and a midlevel prospect from a barebones minor league system. Any trade the Reds would actually make for Griffey would probably involve us giving up much more than Griffey will be worth to us.

As for Right Field -- i would like to see Milton Bradley come over for Jacque Jones. Heck, M.Bradley is an absolute mess - but he would play a much better defensive Right Field -- bring some intensity --- and is a good middle of the order switch hitter.

Laugh away ...... but i'm serious.

silent could use a few dozen more identies...and a new blog...obviously no one here is as obviously intelligent as he obviously is and the rest of us cavemen over here banging on rocks will obviously never meet his obvious standards where obvious opinions become obvious facts and people obviously have no idea how to handle who's obviously deciding what obvious opinions are obvious facts...obviously.

so uh...anyone watching today's game?

5-4 now...

the problem with Chad is -- all his moves proposed moves result in the cubs finishing at .500.

it takes ingenuity to get to the next level. Heck, the Florida Marlins have won the WS 2x.....and have had 2 firesales to get them there!

Think Different you mongaloid.

"Dave, Real Neal and E-Man…"

Whad I'd DO?

I did not "defend" shit! Except stating a fact that the young pitchers who were/are from our "Broken Down Farm System" as you stated, have been the positives during Hendry's litlle spending spree - and should be considered a nice bonus.

I do not condone getting Griffey, and never did!

Get your head out of your OWN asshole.

So much for Padilla "mowing us down"

Instead - focus on Right Field and Catcher

Ummmm... Griffey DOES play RF.

I love the fact that so far this inning we've scored 4 runs on 6 consecutive hits, but is anyone else concerned that the last 5 of those hits were all singles, including from the 3-5 guys in our order?

I know it's just one day... but I already have a serious mancrush on Bowen.

dave,
sorry, i'll clarify - griffey will play for another 2 years. 1) this year - which we won't compete for the WS, and 2) next year --- who knows ----but our money is probably better spent on zambrano --- afterall, our window with griffey is WS bound in the next 2 years ---or bust.

that was a fun half-season, theriot. back to the bench!

Hey... how do the Cub's rank in GIDP? I'd look it up, but I'm at work and I don't want to waste the companies resources. *g*

Was anyone watching? Did Pie try to break up the DP sliding hard into 2nd?

Damn those fundamentals...

next year — who knows —-but our money is probably better spent on zambrano

Supposedly, according to the Sun Times, Griffey is only owed 6.5 million next year, with a 6.5 million team option for 2009.

That is better than great value for a guy like Griffey.

I don't know how anyone can call the Cubs' farm system "broken down."

Theriot
Fontenot
Pie
R. Hill
Marshall
Marmol
Gallagher
K. Hill

While you, ST, may not see any superstars in that bunch, each and every one of them has contributed in a positive way to this ballclub in 2007.

What's the point in constantly being so negative and angry? I mean, what the fuck, have you ever had a positive thought about this team you're supposedly a fan of?

Doug--

I agree that each of those guys has contributed in various ways to this season this season, but Fontenot and K. Hill weren't developed in our system.

Marmol, or Zeus as I like to call him, has looked bad-ass lately.

crunch, you obviously need to take your head out of your ass.

Hey… how do the Cub’s rank in GIDP?

The Cubs are 11th in the NL in GIDP.

wow thanks neal...i didnt notice my head was there.

hell, now it all makes sense. actually, according to him i'm a "fuc**ng moron".

he so nice! *warm fuzzy*

"but Fontenot and K. Hill weren’t developed in our system."

Valid point, but they were brought over to our farm system, so I consider that part of the overall package. Along those same lines, I'll add Angel Pagan to that list as well.

"cubfanbudman — June 21, 2007 @ 1:37 pm

the problem with Chad is — all his moves proposed moves result in the cubs finishing at .500.

it takes ingenuity to get to the next level. Heck, the Florida Marlins have won the WS 2x…..and have had 2 firesales to get them there!

Think Different you mongaloid."

Your baseball ignorance knows no bounds. Do you know anything about the Marlins at all? The 1997 was a purchased World Series. They traded their whole future for a near dream team. Instead of keeping it together. The blew it up FOR NO DAMNED REASON. They weren't trying to reload. They sold off all the pieces cause they got what they wanted. A World Series. So no need to pay those players.

In 2003 the team was all but dead. They fired the freaking manager. The odds of a team doing what they did was 1,000,000 to 1. They didn't 'rebuild' a winner. It was a fucking fluke.

This isn't the Marlins. Its a real team. Real teams like the Braves, Cards, Yanks, Mets and Red Sox go through bad spells but they sure as hell don't just blow up and entire team. You need to think different. At least I know something about baseball.

Be like the Marlins? You're the mongoloid!

Tie game.

You've convinced me fellas. The Cubs are a fantastically terrific ballclub with strengths everywhere. How dare I direct criticism at Jim Hendry or the state of the farm system or the current construct of this roster.

Ryan Theriot needs to hop on the first bus to Des Moines to join his pal Matt Murton. Permanently. The Towel has spoken.

the more attention he gets the bolder and more his ego comes out.

well, guess we know why you're here towel.

The Cubs are a fantastically terrific ballclub with strengths everywhere.

Wait... can you point out who said that for us?

ST: You really should get you're head out of your asshole.

"The blew it up FOR NO DAMNED REASON"
Well they were making no money and a high pay roll.

Boy Dlee just sucks.

Barrett with a PB today in his first game with SD.

jacos... if D-Lee was a "proven" run producer, he would have hit home runs instead of RBI singles.

Mongoloid - with all due respect. the marlins winning the world series was not a fluke -- the marlins built the team up with the likes of D Lee, Castillo, Alex Gonzalez, Mike Lowell, Miguel Cabreara, Juan Pierre, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, AJ Burnett, Carl Pavano, Ugie Urbina, Dontrelle Willis, Braden Looper.---all young talent -- plus they through in a leader like Pudge through FA.

This team had WS talent. and they were well assembled.

your point runs null and void ----You are a mongoloid.

Cubs have left 10 on base through 6 innings; Rangers have left one.

Take that, you mamby-pambys.

I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy corksuckers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

Dave-- Griffey has a ton of money that is deferred till after the contract expires... not sure how its stacks up but i remember when he signed here he cut the Redlegs a break...

well your mom wears combat boots.

WHO WANTS HUGS?

Can we get an interpreter for comment #116?

Griffey has a ton of money that is deferred till after the contract expires

Yea... I kinda' figured that out, but I am not sure how much of that Cinci would be on the hook for and how much the Cubs would be on the hook for. I am just going off of what the Sun Times said on the 6.5 million.

WOW...........If Silent Towel would be silent.........how nice it would be.

Silent Towel learned so much playing in his one year of T-Ball. Now he feels the need to impart his wisdom on the rest of us.

NPV is about 10 million according to mlbtraderumors.

I think the breakout is, $6.5M this season and $6M deferred, not sure who would pay what. It actually probably depends on how the trade would be structured, if made.

By the way, given the manner in which we got to 300 comments after the Barrett/Bowen trade, how has no one jumped all over comment #111?!

Theriot has looked pretty shitty offensively the last 2 months. Not sure what the alternatives are, however.

10 K's for Lilly today?

At least he's hung in there for today.

11 left on...

Could stand some support, here...

The Big Unit had a bunch of money deffered when the DBacks shipped to the Yanks, i can't remember he they did it though...

Awww... Rob Bowen sucks.

ST said "Dave, Real Neal and E-Man…

Pull you head out of your assholes. Are you watching today’s lovely contest against the dynasty that is the Texas Rangers?!? "

Baseball games are not decided in the fourth inning and baseball seasons are not decided in June.

Jane, you ignorant slut.

Don't know if this has been covered yet or not, but what's with the TX radio play-by-play guy? I've listened to the last two games on XM, and this guy is clearly insane.

He gives more random facts about the ballgame than any announcer I've ever heard in any sport. He not only calls the usual stuff, but describes, in detail, EVERYTHING.

Example: most announcers would say something like, "the visiting Cubs are wearing their grey road uniforms." This guy describes the uniform, the patches on the sleeve, the length of the sleeve, the color of the shoes, the shoelaces, the mitt, what's written on the mitt, what color t-shirt is underneath, how the SP picks up the rosin bag, how the tosses it down, where the sun is on the field, how bright it is, the number of clouds he can see, the shape of the clouds, etc.

That description gets him through about 2 batters into the first inning. The top of the first.

It's insane. Just my two cents.

-CTMike

p.s. Padilla sounds like the slowest pitcher in the history of baseball.

What exactly happened during Wilkerson's ab? How did he reach first on a fielders choice when there were no other put outs. Why did the fielder just choose not to get Wilkerson out?

needed a sweep, got 1 out of 3.
I am officially out on baseball for this year.

lofton was caught in a rundown...lofton won the rundown.

another creative way to lose...

Go figure, bad fundamental play costs us another game.

What exactly happened during Wilkerson’s ab? How did he reach first on a fielders choice when there were no other put outs.

Howry had Lofton caught in a run down, and Howry waited to long to throw the ball to second and Izzy made a poor tag.

Wow, it seems the Cubs are just looking for ways to lose this season.

ball hit to howry, catches Lofton between bases

Howry runs at him and makes him commit to 2nd, for some reason Howry holds on to the ball till Lofton is sliding and Izturis isint in position to make the tag

isint it a bit odd that seemingly everytime we come back with a lot of runs, Howry is in the game when we lose it

Dis is Fargin War!!

ST - What was that character's name? I can see his face, just not his name... I laughed hard when i saw that post!

Dear Mr. Douchy:

My point is not null and void. My point proves that to find success like they did, it's a fluke. the only way to ensure success is to use the proven model of you get talent, you hold talent, if you lose said talent, replace talent. It has worked for such teams at the Yanks, Red Sox, Cardinals, Braves and Dodgers.

Or maybe we can wait til we catch lightning in a bottle like the Marlins did.

Well, that was uninspiring.

Roman Maroni.

Cubs lose 2 out of 3 to the Texas Rangers and are 7 games under .500. Yeah, sure. Let's "go for it" and go get us Ken Griffey, Jr.!!!!!!!!!!

"You have violated my farging rights"

There is no free speech on the internet, it is privately owned and they can make the rules as they see fit

Milwaukee lost 2 of 3 to texas as well

Thanks, Chad!

Ehhhh, that's all the more reason we should've beat Texas 2 of 3...can't really justify losing by saying someone else lost too. Win and you don't have to justify anything.

privately owned website is what i meant to say

The schedule-makers hand the Cubs a gift -- 3 games against a terrible team, with 3 starting pitchers with ERA over 5.00! -- and the Cubs make a total mess of it.

Not the best way to start the "easy" stretch of their schedule.

Ted Lilly should only pitch at Wrigley, and only when the wind is blowing in.

The lack of power in 3-4-5 is absolutely killing the Cubs. Ramirez needs to get back soon and start going yard.

8.5 back, and (once again) with bad mojo. Cubs now 0-2 in the post-Barrett era. Bummer.

Billybucks

Over 5 era wouldve been good but all 3 were nearing 7

Lee was 3-4, with 2 RBI. Not sure how that is killing the Cubs.

Cubs now 0-2 in the post-Barrett era. Bummer.

hmmm... you mean it may not have been Barrett's fault?!?!?

what the crap... my previous post was missing a line.

oh well... What I am saying is that Lee (#3 hitter) is definitely not "killing" the Cubs due to his lack of home runs.

Theme of the year -- the Cubs had more hits and drew more walks, but the other team scoerd more runs.

Well, guys -- go sweep the Sox and we'll just forget this little mishap in Texas.

Silent Towel,

Griffey is under contract for next year and there are not good Free Agent corner outfielders. It is a move for next year also unlike your boy Dye who is a free agent. I have no problem with offering Marshall, Murton, and a project prospect for him. Stat wise he's been the best NL outfielder, gee I wonder what kind of stats he would have if he were not. You might want to go to a hospital and have that mouth in your rectum stiched up.

well someone has to go tomorrow if
aram comes back earlier i thought pagan
but he did have a good game.
theriot is definately slumping but then
who would play short yikes
i would prefer to have derosa get some starts in
right.

so who does go?

What I am saying is that Lee (#3 hitter) is definitely not “killing” the Cubs due to his lack of home runs.

UNLESS you think league average RBI production is just dandy from our #3, HE IS and IT IS.

AA Tennessee RHP Mark Holliman just threw a seven-inning no-hitter in Game #1 of the Smokies DH versus Huntsville.

And Holliman homered! Why was the game stopped after 7, AZ Phil?

UNLESS you think league average RBI production is just dandy from our #3, HE IS and IT IS.
___________________________________________

Derek Lee is hitting .409 with a .474 OBP, a .636 SLG and a 1.110 OPS with runners in scoring position. Those are incredible numbers from a #3 guy and proof that judging a player by his RBI's is the biggest crock of shit ever.

Rishi — June 21, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
And Holliman homered! Why was the game stopped after 7, AZ Phil?

==============================

RISHI: In the minor leagues, they only play seven-innings in each game if it's a double-header.

rokfish — June 21, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
well someone has to go tomorrow if
aram comes back earlier i thought pagan
but he did have a good game.
theriot is definately slumping but then
who would play short yikes
i would prefer to have derosa get some starts in
right.

so who does go?

==============================

ROKFISH: I suspect the Cubs would like to move Jacque Jones ASAP, but they might not be able to do so before Aramis Ramirez is ready to be reactivated.

So Daryle Ward could get DFA'd, although the Cubs could also option Angel Pagan to Iowa for ten days (minimum) while meanwhile Hendry tries harder to deal JJ.

If the Twins are really indeed serious about acquiring Jones, the Cubs would probably have to pay a good part (at least half) of Jones' remaining salary (which is about $2M remaining in '07, plus $5M in 2008), as was the case when the Cubs traded Michael Barrett to the Padres.

BTW, after going 24-52 over his last twelve games at AAA, I-Cubs SS Ronny Cedeno is now hitting 368/444/530 (974 OPS) with a 16/16 BB/K. And those those numbers are better than the ones Mike Fontenot put up at Iowa before he got recalled.

So I would think Hendry will be trying to find a taker for Cesar Izturis, too, or Cedeno might even replace Ryan Theriot on the roster (with Theriot getting optioned temporarily to AAA, while Cedeno plays SS every day and Izturis functions as the Cubs utility middle-infielder until Hendry can trade him, at which point Theriot would be recalled from Iowa to assume the utility middle-IF job).

Chad,

Back to my point - don't trade for the likes of griffey -- have a plan. we are 7 games under .500 and next year isn't looking any brighter ---

knowing zambrano is walking --that situation needs to be addressed:

1) if we plan on signing Z --(which with the given ownership situation will be tough) --- then sign Z -- but then trade a pitcher like Hill or Marshall for the likes of Stalmaccia / McCann.
2) if we can't sign Z --- then go to optio 2 - Trade his ass for the likes of Stalmaccia or to the mets for Miledge -and Pelfrey / Heilman - and Ramon Castro - find a way to make it hurt the mets while addressing key positions -- 1) RF, 2) catcher 3) replentish pitching

My point is --- build the system --- don't tie up a bunch of money on aging vets if it doesn't get us any closer to the finish line.

if z is going to walk -- make the most out of it.

Sean Marshall for Ken Griffey Jr.????? Good Lord no. Not in a million years. I swear, some of you are deluded into thinking the Cubs are on the cusp of greatness in 2007 and only a player move or two away from reeling off a 50 game winning streak. I'm dealing with morons here.

I drive over to Des Moines almost every week and catch some Iowa Cub games. Cedeno has really looked good. He has 6 errors but has made some excellent plays in the field. He really looks like a different player than we saw last year.

Cedeno is playing a much better shortstop than Theriot has for the Cubs. Much more range and is hitting about .370. At this point in his career, he needs to be brought up or traded to a club where he will play.

I, too, question the wisdom of acquiring Griffey. Not because he's "severely broken down". That's ridiculous and evinces a lack of current knowledge, at best. He's having a great offensive year, albeit in a hitter's park.

The problem is that the Cubs appear unlikely to contend, even with the addition of Griffey. They'll be improved - no question.

But how many games will the Cubs be improved by replacing Floyd with Griffey? How many more games will they win this year if this lineup switch happens? There's a way, sabremetrically, to arrive at a reasonable approximation. I doubt that it's more than a few games.

Enough to win the division? Maybe. Winning the NL Central won't require a team breakout season.

And of course, once you get in the playoffs you got a chance.

Questions to ask:
Do the Cubs play for this year? Or next year, hoping things go better? Or is this time to try to get younger and hopefully better in three years?

Questions which Hendry should not be asking (but probably is): Will acquiring Griffey help me keep my job?

anybody remember the last time theriot hit a ball hard and/or to the left of the pitcher's mound?

Silent Towel: "I swear, some of you are deluded into thinking the Cubs are on the cusp of greatness in 2007 and only a player move or two away from reeling off a 50 game winning streak. I’m dealing with morons here."

Who is saying this? Seriously...specifically name a moron that you are dealing with. Maybe you should head on over to your Mensa meeting so you can have a sophisticated discussion.

Classic strawman argument he's using Joe. Generally if you ignore trolls they go away.

by the way JAOCF, another way of putting it might be that cedeno looks a lot like he did the last time he was in des moines for an extended period...we should figure out a way to share an i-cub game sometime - just how old a cub fan are you?

judging a player by his RBI’s is the biggest crock of shit ever.

Hilarious!! and a non-sequiter as well. A double-play. Side retired.

"Back to my point - don’t trade for the likes of griffey — have a plan. we are 7 games under .500 and next year isn’t looking any brighter —"

Which is why I said you must look at the price tag. If it won't cost us much and may make this year's team better go for it. I am not ready to call it a season yet, however, I don't advocate selling the farm system for anyone other than Miguel Cabrera.

Having said that, if you want to sell off pieces for good looking minor league talent, we don't have it to give. The only possible player to trade would be Z. Lee, Aram and Soriano are going nowhere. Everyone else is not that great. Sure if we can dump Jacque or Cliffy, fine, but I don't see much return there.

Hendry should have brought in Joe Girardi...I'm just not sure that Sweet Lou is the right manager to take the Cubs to the next level...Hendry loves to spend the big dollars (on the Sorianos and Pinellas) but that doesn't guarantee that you're really putting together a winner.

Common sense reality check: A Rumor is NOT a fact.

Nice to see nearly 100 posts arguing about a rumor as if it were true.

Matt Stairs just tagged up to third base on a shallow fly ball to Juan Pierre. I'm so glad we got rid of that clown.

No kidding Carlos, thank goodness we don't have weak-armed OF'ers anymore...

But Pierre brings "weak armed OF" to a whole new level. I mean, Matt friggin Stairs? He's the second slowest player in the majors, after Frank Thomas.

I know, just kidding. We actually don't have weak-armed OF'ers now that I think about it, just not the best aimers.

By the way, Matt Stairs is fat.

The Rockies are 21-7 in the past month.

I'm so tired of blaming underwhelming results on the manager. I hate that more than anything else that gets discussed here.

Blame a manager for poor lineup construction (I'm looking at you, Dusty). Blame a manager for stupid double switches and bunting at stupid times (see above). I'll give you that. That's 100% on the skipper. No doubt about it. He's not free from blame. He can make decisions that can win or lose a ballgame. I don't think Lou's done that very much yet.

Felix isn't hitting, so he hit him 8th today. Fontenot is, so he hit him second after hitting him fifth yesterday. Jacque hasn't hit at all, so he went away from the Jacque hitting 2nd experiment pretty early. Theriot hit so he found him AB's.

Blame poor bullpen pitching and poor hitting late in games on players. I don't think Girardi, LaRussa, Bobby Cox, Sparky Anderson, or Connie Mack could make a change that would have us hitting .300 after the seventh inning. Girardi wouldn't make Soriano or Lee hit 15 homers by now.

I think that's yet another "completely made up by the media so there's somebody to blame" idea. Maybe that's the player in me and I'm way off base here. I'd be willing to accept that.

I didn't care if I liked/didn't like/hated/had no respect for my skipper. I still went out and tried to get guys out. Just the same way as I did for any other skipper. The manager I had did not change that mental procedure any. I had skippers I could not stand. Hated 'em. The last thing I wanted to do every day was go the park and get bitched at for hours and hours about stupid shit like tying my cleats correctly and drinking too much gatorade during the game. Yet, I still went out there when he called for me and tried to get guys out. At approximately the same rate as I did with other managers, no less.

I just wish players would be held accountable for player things and managers would be held accountable for manager things. You guys have no problem holding the GM accountable for GM things.

Jason Schmidt, 3/44. Gonna happen.

Silent Towel,

Griffey is NOT a RENT-A-PLAYER. He is under contract for 08 and has a club option for 09.

For those of us dreaming because Tejada was removed from the game, it was due to an injured wrist.

Sweet Lou has had enough of this losing and the culture of bad ballplayers and excuse making. His biggest move to date was telling Jim Hendry to shove his pet project Michael Barrett up his ass. Bravo Piniella. Those of you critical of the manager don't know jack scratch about professional sports, let alone the Chicago Cubs. Joe Girardi is a black-balled ego maniac. Fredi Gonzalez is providing down in Florida that is GM Larry Benifast and the good young talent that is reason why the Marlins do surprisingly well. Piniella is 50 times the manager Joe Girardi will ever be. And it is so bloody damned idiotic to be suggesting that Piniella is part of the problem.

Fredi Gonzalez is providing down in Florida that is GM Larry Benifast and the good young talent that is reason why the Marlins do surprisingly well.

So Fredi Gonzalez has nothing to do with it?

*Sweet Lou has had enough of this losing and the culture of bad ballplayers and excuse making. His biggest move to date was telling Jim Hendry to shove his pet project Michael Barrett up his ass. Bravo Piniella.*

Yay! At this rate Piniella will have exactly the team he wants at 15 games under .500 come October 1. Huzzah! Good on ya, Lou!

Very fiery today. Especially offensive and prickish. Didn't know ST could go to another level. It's like he just picked up the turbo boost in the middle of Turn 3. He's got a whole other gear that I didn't know existed.

Geepers Wes. I make no apologies for being peeved off at the Cubs. This team is the laughingstock of baseball. $100 million plus payroll, $300 million offseason shopping spree, a packed stadium, 99 year losing streak...and still the same old same old thanks largely to Jim Hendry. The Cubs aren't unlucky. They aren't suffering from a key player injury or two. Rather they stink, pure and simple. The offense remains the most dysfunctional and maddening in all of baseball. The defense is a mess. The rotation suspect. The bullpen an absolute clusterfuck.

And you want me to be whistling zippidity doo da.

The defense is a mess.

Since when?

The rotation suspect.

Not really.

The bullpen an absolute clusterfuck.

Not really.

SadCubFan - we have already talked about those things at length.

Ouch... sad day for Barrett: 0-4, 3 k's, 1 pb.

My Padrefan employee told me that he let another one get away and cost the Dads 2 extra runs. He said it was 2 passed balls but maybe they ruled it a wild pitch. In fact the way he described it was a wild pitch but according to him, one that should have been blocked.

Dave, I can't argue with somebody who continues to defend the indefensible. If you can muster a rationale for the performance of the Cub bullpen, then no doubt I'm sure you have an excuse for lots of other cataclysmic happenings as well. I mean my goodness, this team is giving regular playing time to the likes of Koyie Hill/Rob Bowen, Ryan Theriot, Mike Fontenot, Angel Pagan. That's REALLY bad boys and girls. A $100 million plus payroll and the Cubs have been reduced down to this?!? The Cubs are the Kansas City Royals, only with 4 times the payroll.

I'm not asking for whistley zippity wtf ever you said. I'm not really asking for anything. Don't believe there was a request for anything there. Nor was I commanding. Or pleading.

I think personally attacking somebody for a having an opinion different than your rather stubborn one is a bit immature, however. Probably why I thought you were 14 years old. And a Cardinals fan.

44 years old. Live in the northern burbs of Chicago. Travel to St. Louis weekly for work. In fact, work in an office down there that is two blocks from Busch and overlooks the stadium. Diehard Cub fan since 1977. Never a Cardinal fan. But I do respect that organization. I walk by Busch and cry when I see the listing of 10 World Series Championships plastered over the joint.

Pagan: .313/.371/.516
Fontenot: .348/.367/.652
ST...you lose me every time you bitch about a player that is playing well.
Jones has sucked...Izzy sucks, Barrett couldn't catch me if I was in the dirt, and Eyre stinks too.
Those 2 have actually hit a little, in a very small sample size, to be sure, but they have hit.

At the risk of entering into the poo - flinging fight currently ongoing, I would hate to see Marshall go. The kid looks like he's figuring out what it takes to last a full season in the bigs, and his development reminds me of what Hill went through after he was sent back down to the minors.

Dusty, if you honestly believe that it is a good thing and exciting that Angel Pagan, Mike Fontenot and Ryan Theriot are getting routine playing time on the Chicago Cubs, then you and I don't see the Cubs through the same lens. Pagan, Fontenot and Theriot are journeyman types destined to bounce between the bigs and Triple A for several ballclubs. They are the type of cheap roster filler you would expect to see in Kansas City or Washington.

Dmac- I agree.
Marshall had a tough outing in Texas...that happens to a lot of pitchers.
He's looked really solid so far. I'd hate to trade a LHP who is 25 and pitching well. It's not like the Cubs have a surplus of starting pitching.

I absolutely agree ST.
I am not excited about Pagan, Fontenot, or Theriot...no in the least.
I'd much rather have Grady Sizemore, Chase Utley and Jose Reyes.
I merely pointed out that Pagan and Fontenot have played well when called upon. They may be bench players eventually, but they are playing well for now. Hell..if Fontenot could come close to his minor league career #'s of .287/.364/.427, I'd take that at 2B.

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