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39 players are on the MLB RESERVE LIST (one slot is open), plus two players are on the 60-DAY IL and one player has been DESIGNATED FOR ASSIGNMENT (DFA)   

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Last updated 4-23-2024
 
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PITCHERS: 13
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Game 83 Thread / Cubs @ Nationals (3 of 4)

Submitted by Rob G. on
Game Chat Rich Hill vs. Matt Chico Lineups:
Soriano LF Logan CF
Theriot SS Belliard 2B
Lee 1B Zimmerman 3B
Ramirez 3B Young 1B
DeRosa RF Kearns RF
Pagan CF Lopez SS
Fontenot 2B Fick LF
Bowen C Flores C
Hill P Chico P
I can't say I'm use to this feeling of expecting to win. I hope I didn't jinx us. If I did, send hate mail to [email protected].

Comments

Submitted by jacos on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:36 am

When the Washington pitching coach visits the mound today, does he sing "Chico...don't get discourage."?

Submitted by B-rad or B-had on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:45 am

WTF?? Rich Hill is going downhill. Young smacks a grand salami. Dmitri Young is a strong candidate for comeback player of the year.

Submitted by ARM on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:01 am

Cubs taking today off it looks like. Can't win 'em all, I guess. The offense has started to disappear the last couple of days. Better luck tomorrow.

Submitted by chifan3887 on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:06 am

well it didn't look good with a good lefty who we havent seen before in Chico going for the Nats. Hopefully Marshall pitches like a big leaguer tommrrow.

Submitted by The E-Man on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:08 am

ROB G: What were you saying about Hill and Zambrano earlier? The NL has figured out Rich Hill. I like him plenty, but if you throw a fastball at 91, without movement, you're gonna have to learn how to stop hanging pitches when you're ahead in the count. At almost 28, he is not "a young guy" anymore and is looking like the "Old" Rich Hill to me. Maybe WES or DAVE will chime in. What about it guys? Was his stuff much different earlier in the year, or has the scouting caught up? FONTENOT has turned back to a pumpkin, sorry CWTP, but I appreciate the tremendous contributions with the terrific D last night (made top 5 Web Gems on ESPN).

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:35 am

Well, E-Man, in his last few starts his control has been somewhere between mediocre and absolutely awful. As you said, a fastball at 91 with no movement isn't that much to write home about. A fastball at 91 with no movement when you have absolutely no idea where it's going to go is even worse. Could be in the dirt. Could be up around the eyes. Could be belt high and then 20 rows deep in the bleachers. I only saw the first four innings today, but his curveball looked to be a little more sharp than last time (not difficult to do). But again, he was having a hard time putting it where Bowen wanted it. Every pitcher goes through stretches where they feel great. They can throw it exactly where they want, the breaking stuff is sharp and you're getting everybody out. Those are typically followed with stretches where you can't throw a strike, you're hanging every curve or slider you're throwing, and guys are knocking you around like you married into the family. The great ones don't have those as often. If you watch Len & Bob a lot, Bob talks about the "ebb and flow" of the game. The natural cycle of baseball. Somewhere in between first six weeks of the season and this month-long stretch is where Rich is going to end up. He wasn't as great as April and May, and he's not as crappy as June.

Submitted by The E-Man on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:44 am

"guys are knocking you around like you married into the family. The great ones don’t have those as often." LOL. That was funny, Wes! Thanks for your insights, here. So, you feel he'll be a competent MLB pitcher and not another Glendon Rusch then?

Submitted by Vacubs on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:48 am

Pitiful offensive display today. Chico had the hitters off balance all day. The radar gun here at RFK had him around 83-87 all day and we got hardly any good swings at him. And I'll agree with the points on Hill. From my vantage point at the game he struggled to consistently locate his pitches. He had 0 1-2-3 innings today. Here's to 3 of 4!

Submitted by Dusty Baylor on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:01 pm

Wait...so Hill sucks because he's not dominating every start? Fontenot turned into a pumpkin because he went hitless in 3 straight games? Of course, he was robbed by Lopez last night of an RBI single. Let's not live and die with every start and at bat. Hill's start on June 23: 5 2/3, 1 ER, 6K/2 BB Now he's been off 2 starts. He is almost 28, but this IS his first full season as a starting pithcer in MLB. If he gets Young, does this even come up? Brenly made a good point on Hill today, that his curve had more sideways break than downward, and that his curve is most effective when it's breaking downward. DLee sucks...he's hitless his last 3 games....Oh No!!!!!! Let's regroup, relax, and take the finale tomorrow. It'll be okay.

Submitted by JustanoldCubfan on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:06 pm

In my opinion the most over rated statistic is the radar gun speed. Lots of great pitchers never threw in the 90's but every great pitcher threw a ball with some hop to it. A few times a year, I catch some games in the Northwoods league. A wooden bat college league. Lots of pitchers there get up into the 90's but few have the action to be a prospect.

Submitted by Dave in Pittsburgh on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:14 pm

Meh, have another beer at your cookouts folks, and don't overextrapolate from this stinker. BTW Bowen can't hide the Neifi-ness behind a LouPa "called a good game" comment, when there's no starting-pitcher-reflected-glory to bask in. Bowen continues O-fer: 4-3 GO (RISP; 2 LOB); F8 on first pitch; K looking on three pitches for his third look at Chico-The Man. Well here's still pulling for winning Nats and Pirates series, at least, going into the break with the buzz still going.

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:17 pm

Perhaps justanoldcubfan, but I will say this. It's easier to get to bigs at 95 than it is at 85. I don't think there's much disagreement with that.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:25 pm

And Wes, for a MLBer they would rather see a flat 95 mph fastball with no movement over a greg maddux 86 mph special that nicks the out side corner at the knees. The mph is a crutch of pitchers that when they can't hit their spots, they can rely on.

Submitted by Johann on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:45 pm

It's been said over and over by way more wise people then me, but a pitcher cannot throw a baseball hard enough to get a hitter out if they know it's coming, or if it's straight or if the pitcher isn't hitting his spots. Home run hitters especially (think Soriano) do much better against hard throwers then they do against soft throwers.

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:47 pm

Yes, Chad it is. And the reason that everybody brings him up is that he puts that ball wherever he wants. There isn't anybody that has ever done more with less velocity than him in baseball history. He's a modern marvel. The exception to the rule. But, at the same time, when we're talking about getting to the big leagues, 95 will get you there faster than 85. Plenty faster.

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:54 pm

I can't come up with a pitcher in baseball history who has had better control than Greg Maddux. In his prime, he could run that 2-seamer in under the hands of a right-hander and put in exactly the same place on the exact edge of the black every single time. And he's still pretty darn good at it. Nobody else can do that. There are great control pitchers, and then there's Maddux. But, at the same time, take the teams currently in contention in the pennant races. How many of them have an ace that does not throw 93+? The Mets are just about all I can come up with, but their pitching staff was supposed to suck, anyway. John Maine is pretty close to that, but I don't think he throws quite that hard.

Submitted by Newport/Racine on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:22 pm

Brewers score 3 in the first......again. I was hoping Mr. Purple Rain would break a piece of his arm as he was beating on the water cooler yesterday, causing the Brewers to go into a Cub-like downward spiral. No such luck.

Submitted by aaronb on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:38 pm

I have no proof and have not heard it anywhere in regards to Rich Hill. In watching him pitch the last couple of times out. I can't help but wonder if he is somehow tipping his pitches. Even when he is making outs. The hitters are right on the pitch and the speed. Rich is basically a 3 pitch pitcher as is. Fastball, change, 10-5 hook that IS a devistating pitch. Rothchild and the cubs braintrust need to watch some film to see if there is a tip in there somewhere. Michael Wuertz had a flaw/tip in his delivery early last year. He was able to sort it out. Rich Hill can surely do the same. I also think Rich would do himself a big favor if he changed speeds on his breaker more than he does.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:41 pm

meh, Rich Hill throw a low 90's fastball, so does Ted Lilly, so do about 80% of the lefty starters in baseball. Hill, Lilly, Wolf (another example) rack up tons of K's. Hill's been locating his fastball extremely well most of the year and mixing up his pitches pretty well. And dare I say, him and Barrett worked great together and Hill went out of his way to compliment Barrett numerous times. That being said, the Brewers fouled off about 8,000 pitches last game and today a guy who's doing pretty well sat on a curve and got it. Ball game. I think Real Neal said it in parachat, but he seems to have gotten away from the high fastball around the neck that he racked up a lot of K's on. I also haven't seen his change much.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:41 pm

well word was the Padres picked up on him tipping pitches, just ask Rob Bowen.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:49 pm

But, at the same time, take the teams currently in contention in the pennant races. How many of them have an ace that does not throw 93+? What does Cole Hamels get up to? Honest question, I really don't know. that being said, there's just not a lot of lefties that seem to get up to mid 90's heat that are starters. Johan, Big Unit. Gorzelanny, who else?

Submitted by Virginia Phil on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:21 pm

I agree with Rob that Hill's out pitch used to be the high fastball. This year he throws too many breaking balls. The ones that get hit hard are the high curves and the low fastballs. I think putting "Dr." Koyie Hill behind the plate might be the answer, since he seems to be a fastball-oriented catcher. I say that mainly because Ryan Dempster rediscovered his fastball when Hill started catching him. Sean Marshall better rediscover his fastball pretty soon, I'll say that. I don't know how good his fastball is, but you can't pitch in the majors without it. Is this a Larry Rothschild thing, by the way? Pitchers on other teams throw fastballs and change-ups in this century, but not the Cubs, who all seem to specialize in curves and sliders. Did anyone ever see Wood or Prior throw a changeup? I heard about it, but I never saw it. Does Zambrano throw a changeup, or just that dinky curve? Maddux threw mostly changeups and seldom threw a curve. Make him the pitching coach (if you can ever get him to stop pitching).

Submitted by Brick on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:24 pm

Pirates win!!! Looks like Rickie Weeks came close to a game-tying 2-out HR in the bottom of the 9th. (Based on the MLB Audio + GameDay.) Hey Chicago, whaddaya say, Bucs are goin' to win today.

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:00 pm

From scout.com Rob, [Hamels] throws a mid-90s fastball, an emerging curveball and one of the game's best change-ups.

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:01 pm

There are so many things wrong with everything you've said, VA Phil, that it would take me well over an hour to try to fix it.

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:57 pm

I think putting “Dr.” Koyie Hill behind the plate might be the answer, since he seems to be a fastball-oriented catcher. There's just no such thing. Just because he calls more doesn't mean the pitcher throws more. Maybe the pitcher wants to throw more and not the catcher. I say that mainly because Ryan Dempster rediscovered his fastball when Hill started catching him. Maybe Dempster discovered his fastball when he realized he couldn't throw any strikes and that he was getting hammered. If the hitter knows you won't ever throw him your 94 mph hard stuff, he's going to kill you. It doesn't take Scooby Doo and the rest of the Mystery Machine gang to solve that one. For the 1,000,000th time, the pitcher doesn't throw what the catcher wants. He throws what he wants. That's why he steps off. That's why he shakes him off. That's why he throws to first. The catcher has nothing to do with it. Sean Marshall better rediscover his fastball pretty soon, I’ll say that. I don’t know how good his fastball is, but you can’t pitch in the majors without it. Not good. None of his pitches are very good. That's why he's never projected to be a great big league pitcher. This year he's shown a dramatically improved curveball at times this year, and the curveball I remember at other times. His control has been great during his good starts. That's going to go away eventually and the 7.00 ERA 2006 Marshall will return. Is this a Larry Rothschild thing, by the way? Pitchers on other teams throw fastballs and change-ups in this century, but not the Cubs, who all seem to specialize in curves and sliders. This is just factually incorrect. Z, Marquis, and Lilly all throw more fastballs (cutters, 2 seamers, 4 seamers, sinkers/splitters) than any slider/curve/change. Marshall doesn't throw his very often because it sucks. Hill threw his a lot today. But with a curveball that's much better than your fastball, which one would you throw more often? Keep 'em honest with the heater and break that ol' #2 off on 'em. When they sit deuce, then come back to the heater to get them out. Did anyone ever see Wood or Prior throw a changeup? I heard about it, but I never saw it. Does Zambrano throw a changeup, or just that dinky curve? Not every pitcher throws every pitch. Woody's circle change is about 84, which worked when he threw 97. When you throw 92, the 84 change isn't that effective anymore. Couple that with the fact that his change isn't good, and that tells you why he doesn't throw it. Z throws a VERY rare change. Typically only to very tough lefties. It's also not very good. He also throws many fastballs (2 and 4, very rarely cuts it to lefties, sink, split) the slider, and that "get-me-over" curve (also rare). Maddux threw mostly changeups and seldom threw a curve. Make him the pitching coach (if you can ever get him to stop pitching). Again, he didn't throw a curveball because his curveball probably sucked. If he coulda thrown one, he almost certainly would have. Not every arm can throw whatever they want. Guys develop a repitoire of pitches based what they can and can't throw effectively. It's not a choice. "Gee, I'm going to put the curveball in today because I want to" doesn't happen. You leave it out because it's awful. I couldn't throw a regular curve. I just couldn't get it to turn over with my mechanics. So I threw a knuckle-curve, instead. It's much more difficult to throw with any accuracy, but I could get it to turn over easier. I didn't throw it a lot, but it was better than throwing the normal curve and having it hit the bull and the guy win the steak. Every pitcher goes through that with certain pitches. That's why they don't all throw everything.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:55 pm

not sure what you've been watching VA Phil, Hill was throwing the head high fastball a lot earlier in the year. Also not sure when you think Dempster suddenly got good or Koyie started catching him in theory. Dempster's basically been good all year sans the Mets game and the one Braves game. As for Marshall, his fastball has more movement than Hill's. A little bit of a downward sink on it.You can check out Marshall vs Hill's GB to FB ratios if you don't believe me. His curve just doesn't quite have the break of Hill's. I also don't think he can locate his fastball quite as well as Hill. They both have changeups that aren't going to scare anyone.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:57 pm

For the 1,000,000th time, the pitcher doesn’t throw what the catcher wants. He throws what he wants. That’s why he steps off. That’s why he shakes him off. That’s why he throws to first. The catcher has nothing to do with it. Careful there Wes, that'll get you lynched around here. We all know Barrett's game-calling skills kept us out of the playoffs the last 3 years. :)

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:24 pm

Just as the catcher is not completely in charge, neither is the pitcher. Since you were a pitcher you should know that you work together and also that the vast majority of pitches aren't shaken off. You trust that your catcher reads the scouting reports, he's seeing where the hitter is standing in the box, how he looked on that last pitch, etc. To think that the pitcher is 100% sure what he wants to throw on every pitch of every game and the catcher merely tries to guess and put down the sign that he thinks the pitcher wants is far from the truth. Heck, sometimes pitches are called from the dugout. Remember Bull Durham, you can't shake the cathcer off everytime or he might tell the hitter what's coming!!

Submitted by Eric the Great on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:32 pm

Wow, the Cubs really mailed in this one. I saw the first half of the game and moved on after Young's bomb. Rich Hill--he really isn't more than a .500 pitcher, is he? Hot for 3 or 4 starts, then bombed for 3 or 4 starts. He's a perfectly serviceable #4/5 starter, but he's nowhere near the "stud" some were making him out to be in April. I've always liked Marshall more, anyways. He's a more complete and balanced pitcher; Hill is a one-pitch gimmick pitcher. Derrek Lee is not much of an offensive asset right now. He should sit out his suspension immediately, while we're playing soft competition. I like Billy Petrick.

Submitted by billybucks on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:57 pm

I believe this makes a full month since DLee's last HR. With Fontentot and DeRosa due to cool off from their .500 BA last week, and the CF and C positions not being offensive contributors, more and more pressure will fall on the big 3 to produce. Derrek -- time to be a stud.

Submitted by no on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:06 pm

*meh, Rich Hill throw a low 90’s fastball, so does Ted Lilly* Hmmm...didn't the Nats just see Lilly the other day? I wonder...of the starts that Hill got rocked, did the team just see Lilly in the series?

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:48 pm

Agreed, wiscgrad. Guess that did sound a lot like "catchers r teh sux". Wasn't really my intended message there. However, if I don't like it, I'm not throwing it. End of story. I'm approaching hitters the way I want to approach them and not the way the catcher wants to approach them. If I throw what he puts down even if I don't like it and the guy goes all Dmitri Young on it, that's not on the catcher "calling a bad game." That's on me for not shaking him off. Not trying to make catchers out to be retarded, because not all of them are. But if you've got one who is a few donut holes short of the baker's dozen, then you guys need to have a little get together and talk about how you're going to approach guys so he doesn't do something stupid like call for a pitch in a guy's happy zone. Those guys (cough barrett cough) have to make a trip out to the mound 3 times per inning so I can tell him what to do.

Submitted by The Real Neal on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:00 pm

I can confirm Maddux used to throw a curve but scrapped it because it wasn't very good and it wasn't needed. He quit throwing it around '91, not suprisingly, after he gave up on striking everyone out. The way that Hill has been effective is raising the eye level of the hitter with fastballs that are aound belly button to diaphram high, then dropping the big curve over their shoetops. For whatever reason, he's gotten away from that. Blame the catcher, blame him, blame control, not sure what it is. I think that the catcher has more to do with that than anything, just from watching his last two starts I don't see a lot of calls for the high fastball.

Submitted by The Real Neal on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 07:04 pm

Oh yeah, I should have added that it's Hill's and Rothchilds' responsibility to train these catchers. If they are not calling the pitches and locations that you need to succeed you tell them, just don't keep aiming for their mitt, regardless of where it is.

Submitted by Virginia Phil on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:57 am

Come on, Wes, even I know that there's been a trend in pitching the last two decades away from curves and sliders and toward changeups. The idea is that changeup starts out looking like a fastball. A curve doesn't. I know a pitching coach in the Indians' organization who told me that they teach two changeups to every pitcher coming up through the ranks. Who on the Cubs throws a changeup? Not a curve or a slider, a straight change? You yourself quoted this scouting report: "[Hamels] throws a mid-90s fastball, an emerging curveball and one of the game’s best change-ups." Right away you know he didn't come up with the Cubs. Ryu had a good changeup, now that I think of it. It would be interesting to know where he picked it up.

Submitted by Virginia Phil on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:10 am

Speaking of catchers, Soto is now hitting 341/410/577 with eleven HRs in 220 at bats. After he plays in the Futures game on Sunday, maybe he'll take Bowen's spot on the Cub roster, although Trader Jim's reputation will have to take another hit.

Submitted by The Real Neal on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:15 am

although Trader Jim’s reputation will have to take another hit. Who would be responsible for Soto, Ed Lynch?

Submitted by Arizona Phil on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:40 am

Despite the "heated argument" with Michael Barrett caught on camera last month, over the last couple of years, Rich Hill's best friends on the Cubs were Michael Barrett and Matt Murton. I'm not saying that seeing your two best friends leave is cause to go into a funk, but Hill also is a "know it all" who has had a tendency to think too much and not listen to coaches, and having non-uintellectual-type personalities like Barrett and Murton around to help control his ego and help him clear his mind probably had something to do with Hill developing the confidence needed to win at the big league level. If there is any pitcher on the roster who could become the victim of mind-freak, it's Rich Hill. He just thinks too much.

Submitted by Arizona Phil on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:51 am

Virginia Phil — July 5, 2007 @ 6:10 am Speaking of catchers, Soto is now hitting 341/410/577 with eleven HRs in 220 at bats. After he plays in the Futures game on Sunday, maybe he’ll take Bowen’s spot on the Cub roster, although Trader Jim’s reputation will have to take another hit. ================================= VA PHIL: With Henry Blanco reportedly taking BP this week, he could possibly soon go on a rehab to AAA--possibly as early as this weekend--and then be reactivated from the DL immediately after the ASB. At that time, either K. Hill or Bowen will get dropped from the 25 and from the 40. Since both K. Hill and Bowen are out of minor league options, both would have to clear Outright Waivers in order to get sent to AAA, and since K. Hill has been outrighted previously in his career, he will have the right to be a FA if he gets outrighted. (Most players who get outrighted during the season accept the outright assignmemnt, and defer their right to be a FA until after the season. That way, they get to keep their MLB contract with the guaranteed minimum $60K minor league split rather than take a chance they won't get that much by signing a minor league contract with another organization). And just another additional point of useless info, Geovany Soto is the cousin of ex-Cubs utility INF Ramon Martinez.

Submitted by Old and Blue on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:27 am

If you have to have two Koyie Hills I'd rather we just have one (the real and better one) and bring up Soto so the position has some pop at times.

Submitted by Virginia Phil on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:13 am

Real Neal said: "Who would be responsible for Soto, Ed Lynch?" I agree with you. If there has been a steady stream of rookie pitchers and position players available to the Cubs this year, most or all of the credit should go to Hendry. I wish Hendry well, and hope he can free up some roster spots before the trading deadline. July is a month I've been looking forward to.

Submitted by Wes on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:06 am

Probably when he was about 14 years old, VA Phil. I started throwing a circle change in the 10th grade. Pitchers know what pitches they throw in high school. That's also when they learn what they really have. You can try to teach a 21 year old in A ball how to throw a change-up, but what if it sucks and it gets hit all the time (which happens a lot with guys who throw really good breaking stuff)? Does he just keep throwing it until he gets to the big leagues? You need to point your disdain to the draft and not the pitching coaches. If you want guys who throw great change-ups, then draft them.

Submitted by crunch on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:31 am

"Despite the “heated argument” with Michael Barrett caught on camera last month, over the last couple of years, Rich Hill’s best friends on the Cubs were Michael Barrett and Matt Murton." just based on observation...the worst time for any two+ players to have any kind of critical/suggestive/etc. advice to give is when you come off the field to the dugout. sometimes it has to be dealt with, a lotta times its just a potential powder keg even with the best of intentions.

Submitted by dave on Thu, 07/05/2007 - 07:51 am

If there has been a steady stream of rookie pitchers and position players available to the Cubs this year, most or all of the credit should go to Hendry. WTF? Is this sarcastic? Fontenot. Theriot. Pie. Pagan. Marshall. Hill. Marmol. All may not technically be rookies, but all are VERY young and have had a significant impact on the Cubs this year.

Recent comments

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