Game 96 Thread / D’Backs @ Cubs (2 of 3)

Game Chat Micah Owings vs. Rich Hill Lineups:
Young CF Soriano LF
Hudson 2B Theriot SS
Byrnes RF Fontenot 2B
Jacskson 1B Ramirez 3B
Reynolds 3B Jones CF
Hairston LF DeRosa 1B
Drew SS Pagan RF
Snyder C Hill C
Owings P Hill P


I love the Hill and Hill combo

twin peaks

you know it's going well when no matter what weird lineup lou throws out there, i say "yeah i like this lineup"

baseball fun!

The Cubs are really on a roll right now...I think they could overtake the Brewers and move into 1st by early August.

Go cubs!!
A rumor Dunn to the brewers for T Gwynn jr. and PTBNL.

I thought the Dunn rumor was shot down hardcore by the Brewers GM

Melvin's quote:

"I'm taking more calls deflecting these kinds of rumors than I've had talking to GMs. There are freaking geeks who on this kind of stuff."

Looks like the D-Backs didn't like Ramirez's posing after his bomb yesterday. You'd have to think he'd be expecting this kind of thing if he continues his long looks at his homers.

Owings almost hit Ramirez in the head

Double steal on the Ramirez strikeout

We need more complaints about how this lineup sucks and can't score runs.

Ramirez just swung at ball four and grounded it back to the pitcher. Do you think he swings at it if there's a more reliable hitter in the on-deck circle?

Not like the Cubs of late to strand so many men in scoring position.

Any new trades brewing?

Barrett is hitting .345 with no homers, six RBI and one run scored in eight July games.

I think the Cubs have the right catcher(s) to go deep into the post-season this year.

barrett's hitting .275 with 0 walks (.275 ob%) and 2 doubles for his extra base hits in july.

Howry is better in the 9th...wish Lou used Marmol in the 8th today.

The D-backs 7 and 8 hitters (batting .239 and .220 going into today) have as many hits as the whole Cubs team today.

Still, they've somehow managed to strand 15 men.

I blame Rob G. Get those lineups up earlier so we have more time to bitch about them.

My god does howry suck!

I would take .275 from the catcher spot right now.

My god does howry suck!

Funny... everyone was wanting him to stay in the closer role yesterday.

"wish Lou used Marmol in the 8th today"

Marmol has pitched 2 days in a row, its better that he gets a day off instead of his arm falling off when we really need it in september

Howry for Closer! Howry for Closer!

I kid....

how come Rich Hill doesn't inspire his team to score runs?

maybe he can inspire Aramis Ramirez to not make errors either.

at least Giants are up 3-0, go Lincecum...

Giants 3 Brewers 0, bottom 6

Lincecum strong outing so far...

Felix 2 run HR

feliz...darn word recognition again

We're blaming Howry for this one? I'll blame 2 runs. Yes you need Howry to hold down the other team but we weren't going to score 3 runs all day so it wouldn't have mattered. WE NEED A DAMNED STICK ON THIS TEAM. Jones and Pagan does not cut it. Yes, I know that Floyd is hurt but even when healty, Ward, Jones and Floyd is beyond redundant. Jones has to go and we need a right handed power hitter.

Who exactly Chad? Nobody is available.

Jermaine Dye I suppose. He is having a horrible year though.

Jermaine Dye
Reggie Sanders
Sammy Sosa

I'll look for more.

Sanders and sosa are obviously jokes, right? Right?!

um no. If you looked at their splits vs. lefties you would know why i would want them. but that's ok.

kevin millar

miguel tejada

Miguel Cabrera? Pie+Murton+any other player they could possbily want?

He can play right field

(i know, i know, not going to happen)


Dimitri young

autin kearns

why not Randy Winn?

Chad... Millar has a 777 ops against LHP. If the Cubs want that, they should just call up Murton. And Millar is not a RF.

Miguel Tejada broke his wrist. Do you really want to trade anything for a guy who broke a bone in his wrist?

Young can't play RF.

Kearns isn't good, at all (.251/.328/.363). Though he is better against lhp.

Winn is good against lhp, as is Sosa. Dye? No thank you.

Sanders and Winn are probably the most intriguing names that you gave. But again - I am not sure that they could out-hit a Floyd/Murton platoon.

You shouldn't be trading for aging veterans that can't out-produce people in the minors.

Dimitri young

Seriously - what would the Cubs do with Young? You know Derrek Lee is on the Cubs, right? And he is much better than Young.

1. being unable to score pagan from 3rd with 0 out in the 4th was reminiscent of innings earlier this year.

2. if throwing the first pitch of the day at aram's head creates more 0 for 4's, i bet the nl pitchers try it, and soon. he was hopeless today, which he rarely is.

3. rich hill looked rather ordinary today, but got some big outs at the right time. this could easily have been a 6-2 game for az.

4. i hope derosa gets the start at 2b sunday, with either fox or moore at 1b. they were hot in iowa, and won't be here long; get some ab's for them right away. with jones in cf and pagan in rf.

5. another 7 1/2 years of soriano will be, speaking only for me, endless.

Dave, Millar is a career .839 OPS guy. His numbers are almost even against both lefites and righties.

Millar has played righ field as recently as 05. I'm sure if we can play Ward in right field, Millar would do fine. And Murton blows.

I'll take broken Tejada. Even if his power stroke goes away, he'll still be able to hit well. i use DLee as an example.

Young has also played in the outfiled as recently as 05. But much like Millar he's really there just to be a right handed PH. You spot start him in right. Once again, if Daryle Ward...

Kearns is a much better player than his stats would indicate. and i would bet on him blossoming in a town that was winning.

dc60124 - good point about Moore/Fox. I was thinking something similar.

If you are going to bring people up because they are currently "hot," then you should play them and allow them to continue hitting well.

Miguel Cabrera really needs to get in shape

furthermore, against LHP Austin Kearns:


Thats plenty good.

Dave, Millar is a career .839 OPS guy. His numbers are almost even against both lefites and righties.

Career numbers mean little. Millar is old.

Young has also played in the outfiled as recently as 05. But much like Millar he’s really there just to be a right handed PH.

Right... I am sure that a guy who is 4th in the NL among 1b in OPS is going to be willing to sit on the bench.

No... Kearn's #'s against lhp: .260 /.374/.438. Still decent, but not what you said.

Kearns is a much better player than his stats would indicate. and i would bet on him blossoming in a town that was winning.

If you say so. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but he has yet to come anywhere near his potential. In a run to the playoffs, you don't trade for potential.

"I am not sure that they could out-hit a Floyd/Murton platoon.

You shouldn’t be trading for aging veterans that can’t out-produce people in the minors."

1. The guy I want will not start in right. He's mostly there as a right handed PH. Ward (if he comes back) from the left and other guy from the right.

2. Matt Murton is not that guy. I don't care what kind of ceiling he has, he's not going to give us what we need. We need a guy that can pinch hit in the 8th or 9th and hit a home run. Like Daryle Ward can.

But chad... you have a lot of starters on that list. It would probably be very difficult to trade for a starter and tell them they are being relegated to the bench. Some of those players would be willing to platoon, but not solely be a ph.

Brewers lose. Yay!

"Career numbers mean little. Millar is old."

Career numbers cannot be ignored, though and he's an improvement from what we have. And will still out hit Matt Murton THIS YEAR.

"Chad - Young has also played in the outfiled as recently as 05. But much like Millar he’s really there just to be a right handed PH.

Dave - Right… I am sure that a guy who is 4th in the NL among 1b in OPS is going to be willing to sit on the bench."

I'm sure he'd rather sit the bench on a winner that jerkoff for the nationals.

"dave — July 21, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
No… Kearn’s #’s against lhp: .260 /.374/.438. Still decent, but not what you said."

I am looking at Baseball The stats I posted were his career vs. Lefties. Are you just looking at this year?

Basically what I am saying is that there are few bats that would truly make an impact on this team, especially if the Cubs needed to give anything of significance in return.

Giants go for the sweep tomorrow. If Brewers can't win at home they're really in trouble.

Re #49. They will get that chance to start a few games. I don't want Floyd playing everyday. He's fragile. Have him sit against every lefty and the occasional righty. That's when the other guys can play. And frankly, I don't care what they think. MOst of these guys are older and would proably be happier than shit to get one last chance at the post season.

re #52: I don't need a huge impact. I need an up grade. If we can pull off a huge right handed bat, fine! I'm looking at right handed veterans on shit teams.

i hope after the game tomorrow (IF we win) someone says (about Aram's near beaning),

"We would have retalliated by throwing at their best player, but they don't have one so..."

One thing is true, Murton isn't a pinch hitter. He does very well when starting, and that needs to be his role, every day if possible, but does poorly off the bench.


"how come Rich Hill doesn’t inspire his team to score runs?"

not all of the struggles are this, but he's a piss poor offensive player.

MLVr of the Cubs four top ip pitchers

-.811 Hill
-.708 Lilly
-.520 Marquis
-.169 Zambrano

So the difference between Hill and Z is almost three fourths of a run a game, although it's probably less because they only take two-thirds of the PAs from the P position. It's a sizable difference, no doubt.

You know what other players that are better than their stats indicate?

Cesar Izturis
Jacque Jones
Jason Kendall
Scott Eyre

Just saying. The "better than their numbers look" argument doesn't hold a lot of water for me in July. In the month of May, sure. But by the month of July, you know what you're getting.

Question for all: If we get to the playoffs, we're going to need at least 2 solid-as-nails starters and probably one other guy who you feel can get an unexpected win (like in '03, Prior/Wood, and then Clement). Besides Zambrano, do we really think that Lilly would be able to strike fear in the hearts of the opposition? And other than Lilly, who else is there? Hill won't be the man, neither will Marquis. Marshall is solid but a little green. My 2 cents.

Yep because Wainright, Reyes and Suppan struck fear into the hearts of anyone last year

So here's the site I've never heard of before. I saw it linked through THT. They claim to runs millions of simulations about the rest of the season. They say the Cubs have a .4% better chance of winning the NL Central than the Brewers.

Brewers do have a better chance of both winning the wild card and making the playoffs.

Thanks Kevin!

You really helped answer my question.

I blame this game on Dennis Miller.

Miller sticks around for the top of the 8th inning, then has the gall to say, "Can you imagine if the Cubs get to the series this year? This will be the center of the universe, it will be nuts..."

Next pitch Drew jacks into the seats.

Thanks, Dennis. Go host your Republican radio show, thnx.

"Miller sticks around for the top of the 8th inning, then has the gall to say..."

just before that he was telling his "funny" story (he was laughing anyway) about how he took a job on a low budget horror film giving an unprofessional mailed-in performance and insulting the people he worked with on it.

hahaha...being a jerk is funny. it reminds me of *insert timely historical reference of obscure nature when a better analogy would do*.


The only player you mentioned that would be worth getting is Dye. I like Kearns but so does Bowden and will cost too much. The others you mentioned either suck (Milliar, Sanders), dont fit defensively (Tejada, waistboy) or the front office hates (Sosa). If Jimbo does go after Dye, I hope he inquires about Iguchi as 2b insurance incase the clock hits midnight on Fontenot as I like Derosa in the supersub role. I imagine KW would want Cedeno and Cherry back. I am fine with that because both suck.


Maybe Cedeno doesn't suck any more. It happens. Look at Juan Cruz.

not all of the struggles are this, but he’s a piss poor offensive player.

thnx Mephistopheles....

I was poking fun at intrepid reader Chad a bit with that one about being inspiring...

I wouldn't mind Kevin Millar as a bench bat but that's about it.

plus Rich had a single today. :)


Sanders was killing lefthanded pitching before he went to the DL and I would love for him to be a right handed PH late in the games.

And I'm not sure what you meant by Tejada not fitting defensively. Do you mean to tell me that you don't think Tejada is a HUGE upgrade over Ryan Theriot? Even coming off injury Tejada's stats will dwarf Theriot. If I listed Jeff Kent (why oh why do the Dodger's have to be in it.?!?!?! Jeff Kent would be perfect for the Cubs this year too!!!) would you say that he doesn't fit in defensively too?

I'd certainly rather have Tejada then Dye and his .221 AVG and .281 OBP. I'm not sure how Dye is better then Murton at all right now.

Chad, tejada is not a viable option at the moment:

1. He is injured;
2. The Orioles would demand crazy value back;
3. He is in serious decline.

I'm with dave. There really isn't much out there that gives us significant added value. Griffey would but the pieces don't add up.

IowaCub, do you think starting pitching is where we should use our trade chips? Surely a reliable bat is more necessary? Plus the starting pitching out there (Contreras?) doesn't make us more dominating.

I think, if Lilly, Hill and Marquis get us there, they should pitch in the playoffs.

If MLVR is taking away .8 runs/game due to one player, it's a garbage stat. My guess is it's counting as if the replacement were an average hitter, not a pitcher, but it's still garbage. Nevertheless, I have a hard time believing that Carlos Zambrano going 1-for-4 is going to get .75 more runs for us than Hill going 0-for-4.

If teams average 4.5 runs a game, an average player is worth half a run. Being worth -.8 runs to a team on offense just doesn't pass a smell test.

so what are the odds of jake fox starting today?

Broken wrist is tricky thing.

DLee broke his April last year, does everyone think he's all the way back?

Lack of homers says no.

Win the Webb game, lose the Owings (who?) game. Baseball is funny like that.


Yeah, I guess I do think we should go after a solid starting pitcher, at least one that could plausibly become dominant in the Fall (I don't think Marquis will become that guy). In order to survive in the playoffs I think this team will need another nails pitcher besides Zambrano and Lilly (and these both are prone to melt at times).

Relatedly, why didn't Marquis pitch in the post-season last year? Was he hurt or did the Cards just bench him?

He was benched for sucking.

La Russa pissed some people in the playoffs (Marquis, Rolen). I guess when you have a team like the Cards '06, you need to think outside the box to win a championship.

"Thanks, Dennis. Go host your Republican radio show, thnx."


That is good Jason. I have to say I got my dart gun out with the rubber suction-tipped end darts, myself! From ardent democrat to full-time Bush War supporter...I'm sure his show will bring him greater success than ever before.

I believe the final nail in the Larussa/Marquis relationship was when he left Marquis in a game for multiple innings as a long reliever, even though he was being absolutely shelled at the time. But it seemed as if he had no other choice, since his bullpen was depleted at the time.

Miller was never an ardent Dem - he leaned left, but he took out Bill and Hillary after his initial strong backing for them during his first election run.

Miller also voluntarily quit his HBO show after many years - he just got tired of doing his same schtick week after week (but he's still doing it, so go figure).

Ok, so if Marquis was benched last year during the Cards' world series championship run, is he going to be worth much for us if we make the playoffs? And if not him, who?

Oh, and on another note, Sergio is melting like butter in a microwave.

I guess I do think we should go after a solid starting pitcher

Like who? Name one or two "solid starting pitchers" that would be available that would improve on what the Cubs currently have starting.

Ok, so if Marquis was benched last year during the Cards’ world series championship run, is he going to be worth much for us if we make the playoffs? And if not him, who?

And for the most part, Marquis has been a very different pitcher this year than he was last year. But it really doesn't matter. Right now Marquis is a #5. He won't get a start in the playoffs.

Sergio Meatball?

+wet noodles = spaghetti?

Well, there's probably some decision on whether Marshall or Marquis would start. I like Marshall, but he's also had some questionable outings, so it'll be interesting to see which one can step it up these next few months.

The worrisome thing about Marquis is his low BABIP. I'm just not sure how sustainable his good start is, and he makes way too much for a 5th starter. Unlike Hill, who is making 400K! Talk about value for your money. Actually, we have several players doing very well for the value, with Theriot making 390K, Wuertz making 415K, Ward making 1 million and however much Fontenot and Marshall make. I like that kind of baseball.

Daytona and Tennessee have gone into the toilet recently with players moving elsewhere and replacement players (e.g., Tyler Colvin) not performing.

On the bright side, Boise and Peoria are surging after getting an infusion of players from the draft. Boise is 16-16 after an 0-8 start.

And this update on the Barrett trade: Kyler Burke has started to hit after going zero for his first week at Boise. Batted fifth yesterday, two doubles, average up to .263.


Tejada doesnt have the range to play the middle infield. Plus the Orioles have turned down good offers in the past and now he is detroirting so I'll pass.

Va Phil,

Cedeno just didnt look like an MLB hitter at all in his time up. Yes his AAA numbers have looked encourging, but the PCL is a hitter's league and Jimbo does not seem that confident in him if he did not call him.


Fortunetly for him so have Romero and Harrington. Garcia should learn from Harrington and VandeValde and use an Iron off the tee on 18.

how is Miguel Tejada in signficant decline?

OPS+ since 2000

112, 112, 122, 117, 126, 133, 126, 108

and that's a 108 in less than half a season.

I know his D has been ragged on a bit lately and the wrist injury is a bit of a concern but anything in the 300/350/450 range wouldn't be all that bad from your SS and hope he does get his power back.

"Jimbo does not seem that confident in him if he did not call him."

Should read didnt call him up after the Izturis trade.

Hey! I just noticed the Dr. Joseph Hecht in The Authors section. When did Cubster become official instead of a guest columnist? Congratulations all around.

This British Open right now is nuts.

Ok, re: pitchers - I'd personally take a chance on Contreras. I know I'll get flamed for suggesting that, but so be it.

Are you kidding? Tejada doesn't have the range to playe shortstop? He's in decline!?!?!?!!

ARE YOU NUTS!?!?!?! Have you all lost your freaking minds!?!?!?!?!?

chifan, you are perfectly happy with Ryan Theriot as our starting shortstop, aren't you. Short of getting Derek Jeter, you see no need to improve there do you?

ARE YOU NUTS!?!?!?! Have you all lost your freaking minds!?!?!?!?!?

Have you "all"? All, meaning one or two people?

Only couple of people have said that Tejada can't play SS and is declining.

My only concern is his broken bone in his wrist.

well dave, i know you've lost your mind but it has nothing to do with your views on Tejada

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