Cubs News & Notes

- Koyie Hill and Jason Kendall are going to split duties for awhile, supposedly to let Kendall get some extra work in with hitting coach Gerald Perry and try to get his hitting stroke right. - I heard on XM radio this morning that Ryan Theriot has something like a 338 inning errorless streak at shortstop going. His last error at shortstop was in the second inning of an April 27th game against the St. Louis Cardinals. The Zone Rating that The Hardball Times keeps track of has him at .877 at the shortstop position which would be good for third in the league if he qualified behind Jose Reyes and Omar Vizquel. - Two items from the print version of Sports Ilustrated... The stats on this first item are a little outdated as this was published right after the All-Star Break but Baseball Prospectus's author Nate Silver uses a formula known as Secret Sauce to predict the World Series participants. The ingredients so to speak: Equivalent K/9 (EqK9), Fielding Runs Above Average (FRAA) and it's strength of closer using Win Expectations Above Replacement (WXRL). The theory being those three items correlate strongly to postseason success, striking guys out, defense and a shutdown closer. Supposedly the formula correctly predicted the 2005 World Series matchup and a few others along the way. This being a Cubs blog, what do you expect? 1. Boston Red Sox 7.2 EQk9, 10 FRAA, 3.43 WXRL for Papelbon 2. Chicago Cubs 7.5 EQk9, 25 FRAA, 1.93 WXRL for Dempster 3. Anaheim Angels 6.8 EQk9, 17 FRAA, 2.64 WXRL for K-rod 4. The Metropolitans 6.4 EQk9, 28 FRAA, 3.19 WXRL for Wagner 5. Los Angeles Dodgers 7.4 EQk9, -11 FRAA, 3.74 WXRL for Saito And before we jump down Dempster's throat, I believe he's the only one of those closers to land himself on the disabled list. Item number two from SI was in this week's issue and there was a piece on the rejuvenated Cubs and touched on many of the topics that I covered in the recent "Nomar Corollary" about what jump started the turnaround. First, Hendry actually has a name for June 2nd, the day the Cubs reached their low-water mark of the year and Lou got ejected, "The Last-Straw Day". Not much for originality I guess. Also, there seems to be a slogan being bandied about Wrigley for the 2007 year, "It's Gonna Happen". Someone's even making bracelets. The most telling piece of the article though was this from Lou on getting thrown out the day after the Zambrano/Barrett brawl and Dempster's follow-up:
"I'm not going to say it was intentional, but truthfully I had to go out and argue that day. I knew that before the ball game. There was just too much scrutiny on our team. And when there's scrutiny on the team, basically a manager has to take a load of it. But that's not why we've turned around."
And Dempster's reply:
"I think Lou did a tremendous job of taking the heat off the players after everything that went on in the dugout and clubhouse. If he didn't get thrown out, we'd probably still be answering questions about Carlos and Michael." "The whole focus was on Lou for four days. Longer. Two weeks. It gave us a chance to breathe, to just play, get on a roll, and all of a sudden get our confidence. Now it feels like the fight never happened."
Strategic ejections, who knew? Cubs go for the sweep tonight, Marquis vs. Looper or better yet Rothschild vs Duncan.
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Comments

Strategic ejections have been going on for years. Manager intentionally get thrown out in order to pump up their teams. Does it really work? Who knows? But I like the perceived results on the Cubs this year.

good point, they need a stat though. :)

random rumors pulled from rotoworld....

Mariners pursuing Jon Garland for Wladimir Balentien(?) and probably another prospect.

RSox, Mariners, Padres and Mets showing the most interest in Dye

Dodgers, RSox, Twins and Yanks with serious interest in Ty Wiggington

Yanks putting out feelers on Johnny Damon

Tigers and Farnsworth possibly being reaquainted

and the Nats are morons, 2/10 for Dmitri Young? That's so Hendry. Guy gets a career year in him and you sign him to an extension. NO, trade his ass to the highest bidder.

What happens to Nick Johnson when he comes back next month? Anyone else skeptical about the "meat hook" in the outfield.

The Baseball Prospectus annual has a boatload of "manager tendency" statistics. Not one of them is for strategic ejections!

Basically a lot of counting stats for pitching starts with 100 and 120+ pitches, "blown quality starts" (basically an attempt to measure times in which a starter was left in "too long" and gave up tying or leading run after 7 innings), reliever and PH usage, stolen base rate, sacrifice rate and success rate, hit-and-runs. Interestingly, nothing that you usually see on TV, like "number of different starting line-ups."

I don't know what the Nats are doing, not only have they resigned Dmitri Young, they also extended Ron Belliard last week. I think the team is very much concerned about attendance, however. I go to a fair number of Nat games (wearing a Cub hat) and Young and Zimmerman are the two most popular players on the team by far. But still, $5M a year for a guy who was out of baseball last year. I'm expecting them to sign an extension for Tony Batista next.

Nationals.com has this: "The Cubs are interested in Church, but Bowden is asking too much for him. It is believed that the Cubs view Church as an extra outfielder. The Cubs were looking to acquire Church's services during the Winter Meetings, but nothing ever came of it."

Villaneuva the win buzzard is in for the Brew Crew 8 (

Hmmm... I think that 5 million a year for Young is worth the risk. If he can come anywhere close to this year's production, 5 million is a great bargain.

I wonder what place we would be in had we traded Prior and Hill for Tejada and Bedard.

It would be interesting to see a study of teams' winning percentage in the games 1,2, and 3 after a manger's ejection. I doubt it would be significantly different from the season winning %.

alright, jumped the gun a bit on Young, thought he was sucking for a few years but it really was just 2006 and I think he had a lot of personal problems.

His OPS+ the last 8 years starting from 2000:
103, 113, 113, 142, 113, 111, 80, 137

Career 114 OPS+ as well. If he hits around there, hell just league average not that bad.

I stand corrected. Not nearly as bad as I thought.

Suck... Brewers up 5-4.

Brewers 5-4...boo

The win vulture strikes again.

was really hoping the Phils would tank this week and make Rowand available. Oh well.

Last hope is Hunter otherwise I expect nothing more than a marginal bench bat.

Young plays hard, likes being a mentor to the young players the Nats have, and is very appreciative that they gave him a chance. I do think part of the $10M is essentially backpayment for the fact that he is only being paid $500k this season.

And who knows, the team may know that Nick Johnson is essentially done. They keep reporting set-backs on his hip, so if they have insurance that covers his (perhaps not coincidentally) $5M salary through 2009, this might be a salary wash for the Nats.

Really... 10 million over two years is a bargain for Young, if he only meets his career numbers.

still would have traded him though. :)

Turnbow hits another guy. This time its encarnacion. A Brewer SHOULD get drilled. If for nothing else, a message of "control your fucking pitches, asshole!"

FYI

The golden gloved, brown fisted Izturis batted LEAD OFF today for the Pirates in their 8-4 win. I wonder who he fisted today? Nady?

Rickie Weeks just got plunked. Why would you hit him, though?

Yea Newport... I was going to mention that also.

I thought Grady Little was a little smarter than that.

Your wish is Jon Coutlangus's command, Chad. Why hit Weeks, though? Why not wait for two outs?

Griffey is going to win this one in the 9th. He'll knock in Hatteberg.

Is Coutlangus really batting?

yahoo gameday must be off, leadoff double by hopper right?

yahoo says single by the pitcher

Tie Game!!!

Weeks gets plunked a lot fwiw...

woot woot!!1

Weeks has a fat ass, thats why he gets plunked a lot. Hooray Reds!

i'm headed to parachat..

Why would you bunt there? That just opens up first to walk Griffey.

Good lord, for a second there, before they decided to walk Griffey with Hatteberg on second, I thought Newport had a Tim Donaghy thing going...

anyone have a link for the izturis ass ram?

Cordless just needs to throw Dunn one fastball...
Mungo like fastball!

Mungo ran all the way to second base... My momma alwasy said that I shouldn't go any further than second base...

anyone have a link for the izturis ass ram?

Don't think it exists... MLB made them take it down.

Why is he called Mungo?

Cincy wins.

Yes!!! 1.5 GB!!!

You're a riot Jace

Rynox:
Cincy wins.

And if you are the Brewers... this one hurts.

Wooot!

The Chat draws an afternoon crowd for the Brewers game (?).

Things are getting serious around here. (Or we are lame...)

DC Tom, If Nick Johnson comes back to 2005-2006 form. Who plays 1st for the Nationals? 5 million for Young isn't a bad deal. But someone is going to be less than happy sharing that job if both guys are healthy.

Ever seen blazing saddles? The big dumb oaf in Blazing Saddles is Mongo... Dunn somewhat fits that description...

(sarcasm)
!@#$. This sucks. I was really hoping the Brewers would lose but drag this out for like 16 innings and kill the Reds' bullpen for us.
(/sarcasm)

CT Steve - As I think yesterday's on-line flash game thread would affirm, we are lame. I do think that things are getting a bit more serious around here, too...

Things are getting serious around here. (Or we are lame…)

I think it is the second option. :)

aaronb... Washington wants Young to play the OF, which he has done before.

WHOO HOO. 1.5 games out...tied for first in the loss column.

Now let's sweep the Cards tonight

Interesting article in the Rocky Mountain News today if you've ever wondered who the heck does the play-by-play descriptions on Gameday. The print version had a reproduction of the "code sheet." And I thought "Izturis grounds weakly to second" was all ad lib.

http://tinyurl.com/ywllfx

How about a nice long Brew losing streak?

The Reds, if I am not mistaken, are 10-3 in their last 13.

This will be an excellent test for them as will all of next week!

Ohhh, Blazing Saddles was great.

That's funny, thought, because I always called him "Shrek" in our house, but I like Mungo a lot better.

cor-der-ooo
cor-der-ooooo
hey milwaukee whaddyou say
you're gonna blow a save today

also, the packers suck.

GL - Hey!! Let's keep things on baseball here, or things might get ugly!

It's Mongo.

"Mongo, but a pawn in chess game of life."

aarobnb re Young/Nick Johnson,

I think they fear Nick Johnson is done and that is why they did this deal to extend Young. That was a full-fledged broken hip, it is possible he may not be back ever or maybe June next year. Second, Young needs, umm, to drop a few before he can play OF. Watching him scurry for popups and foul balls rattles the seats at RFK (it is one reason fans like him so much, he needs four or five steps to get his motor going and by then he needs five more to stop). So the OF is a stretch. I think they will plan to share the job if Nick J can play and if Nick J proves he is healthy, Young becomes tradeable next year mid-season.

As for whether Young and Johnson will like it...Well, Johnson is not in a position to like or dislike anything right now. And I believe Young really, truly appreciates the fact that the Nats gave him a chance this year and would have no problem doing whatever they ask. He is a fan favorite in a town that will have a new stadium next year and hopefully big crowds...not a bad position to be in at all.

Originally posted: July 26, 2007
Cubs eye Wigginton
By Phil Rogers, 2;21 p.m.

Plenty of scouts were in Baltimore on Thursday watching Orioles starter Steve Trachsel, who was just back for the disabled list but could be thrown into a division race next week.

The Cubs' Ken Kravec was there, according to reports, but not to watch Trachsel. He was there to see Tampa Bay's Ty Wigginton, who delivered a home run off Trachsel, his 16th of the season.

Sources indicate the Cubs are looking at the versatile Wigginton as a right-handed bat off the bench and a super utility man (he's been a regular at third base and first base and also can play second and the corner outfield spots).

The Cubs have a lot of competition for him, however, as the Yankees, Red Sox, Twins and Dodgers have also expressed interest. The Devil Rays always want young pitching, and this is no different

Candygram for Mongo

tomorrow matchup:

Arroyo vs Rich Hill

saturday:

Harang vs Sean Marshall

sunday:

Z...nuff said.

Wiggington...DeRosa lite?

And BTW, I love that we have Marquis on the hill tonight. If there was ever a day for him to dig deep and and throw a complete game shutout, it would be today.

Wiggington…DeRosa lite?

I think it would be more like DeRosa... Wiggington lite.

Arroyo = Cub killer

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers...
Mentions Cubs' potential interest in Dotel, Dye and Lofton..

Well... maybe not. They are pretty similar hitters:

DeRosa: .284/.361/.432
Wigginton: .274/.325/.452

DeRosa has a better OBP, Wigginton has a better SLUG.

Jace... that article didn't really talk about the Cubs' interest. It more accurately said something to the effect of "you would think that the cubs would be interested in dye, lofton, and maybe dotel."

And there's always the current Murton - 333/407/571 and no errors in 38 games in RF.

I believe I described it mentioning the Cubs' potential interest... I think that's fairly accurate... Enough interest to potentially ask about them...

And there’s always the current Murton

Uh Oh... don't bring that name up around here! :)

Remember Dave,

Wiggington has 16 HR more than anybody on the bench. Remind you he would be a bench player and can replace Lee, Ramirez, etc. in line-up to give players rest for playoffs, Besides we need more power, we are not hitting home-rruns which we will need when we play the Mets and Phillies.

Didn't mean they should use him, trade him. Send him to the AL so he can't kill the Cub too often.

I believe I described it mentioning the Cubs’ potential interest… I think that’s fairly accurate… Enough interest to potentially ask about them…

Not picking on you... I am more picking on the article.

The Dye rumor mentioned nothing about the Cubs asking about him - only that the Daily Herald suggested they should look at Dye.

And then with Lofton, the writer just said, "Lofton makes sense" for the Cubs.

In other words, he is just pulling stuff out of his ass in order to create rumors without anything backing them.

Yeah, dave. That article was pretty blatantly saying nothing. It was the first time in awhile that I had seen Dotel's name tied to the Cubs, even though he really is not saying much...

Remember Dave,

Not sure why I need to remember. I wasn't criticizing Wigginton.

And 16 home runs is more than any team has on its bench.

The cubs system has really thinned out in terms of pitching prospects lately. Unless Wiggington is available for a Mark Pawelek and a Clay Rapada/Rock Cherry type deal. I don't know what the cubs have to offer. Getting rid of Gallagher or Veal before the Z situation plays out could really bite the franchise in the A@# next season.

I was not picking on you Dave by saying "remember" I apologize if it bothered you.

No worries... it definitely doesn't bother me.

Nationals.com has this: “The Cubs are interested in Church, but Bowden is asking too much for him

I guess the Nats figure out that they can use their web site as ebay by trying to trade their players over their website. They can even add auction ends in 04 days 23 hours 18 minutes.

Nationals.com is not run by the Nationals. It is run by the communications department at Major League Baseball.

Dave, thanks for correcting my joke.

dave - Does that mean that Cubs.com is not run by the Cubs?

Yea Jace - none of the team sites are run by the teams - they are all run by mlb.

MLB Advanced Media runs all the team web sites, albeit clearly with some input from the team (like the recent pumping of the Cubs Club). They claim that the reporters for MLBAM are independent of the team. Although I have yet to see a truly critical headline there that does not offer some silver lining. Desipte this, the best financial move Selig ever did was integrating online presence for baseball teams into one entity with profits shared equally (unlike local media revenues).

Well, everyone knows that MLB is running the Cubs so now they're trying to bid up themselves, sort of like the Hicks did with A-Rod.

"Didn’t mean they should use him, trade him. Send him to the AL so he can’t kill the Cub too often."

The only thing that Matt Murton will be killing is bag and bags of David brand sunflower seeds.

No shit? I had no idea....
I do like the EBay idea, though... Seems like by far the fastest way to trade. POst the player, watch the offers roll in! I wonder if there's a GMs-Only auction site like EBay...

Ruz covered this awhile ago I believe...

The team does not run the websites but there is great pressure on the writers to remain positive about their teams.

the eBay auction would be easy to do in a Sabre-world wet dream. Players could all have numerical values based on stats. then you put up a player for auction and GM can bid with their players. Whichever package has the highest point total wins the player.

Quote from Chad 17 years ago:

The only thing that Rafael Palmeiro will be killing is bag and bags of David brand sunflower seeds.

Is tonight's game a must win?

1. I believe that Palmeiro's stats were inflated by steriods.
2. I believe that with out steriods, Palmeiro would not have been a great player but merely a guy who hit .280 with 20 homers and 80 rbis. (100 if on a really good team).

Those would be good stats. But those are replaceable. Just like Matt Murton would be.

Oh yeah, Raffy failed a steroid test.

Carlos,

No but it would be nice.

Yeah, Chad, although the GMs could just watch the site and decide who they think has the winning bid, since that is going to be so subjective.... Giving a number to each player is adding another subjective element to the setup... It seems unnecessary...

Chad - I am not even so sure that Raffy would have been able to hit 20 a year... but overall I agree, that he would have been a VERY forgettable player without the 'roids...

With numerical values, one could just offer 15 Neifi-valued players for one superstar.

http://www.enjoytheenjoyment.com/2007/07/tony...

making fun of Larussa, always fun.

Ok ok...50 neifi-valued...

Jace:

No way. In Sabreworld it would be real easy to come up with a formula for overall value.

TheJoe,

It would be heavily weighted. If ARod was worth, say, 1000, then neifi would be worth 1.

Chad - I am not going there. Forget it. :)
I think that most GMs would rather be the ones to decide how much each player is worth, and whose bid id the best...

"(100 if on a really good team)."

So, are RBIs team-dependant? Or was Raffy just a lousy run producer? :)

They already come up with a value, it's called the Elias Sports Rankings. They even use it every year. Every player is ranked by position.

It's also complete B.S.

You know what would make it a REAL stat-oriented experience? Just post the stats, not the player's name or team. Then teams bid blindly, based only on numbers.

The very subtle and understated ride of Alfonso Soriano--

http://64.111.216.59/post.phtml?pk=3461

I guess I would need my name on the hood to find my care in that giant Cubs' player parking lot.

Yeah, Brick. That would produce some interesting results... I think the GM's MIGHT want to know who the person actually is, though...

via NSBB via BP via Will Carroll...

Do the Cubs already regret trading for Jason Kendall? He's 1-for-15 and before anyone says "small sample size," I'll point out that his performance in Chicago only continues the precipitous decline seen in Oakland. The Cubs can't expect to contend with an offensive black hole at catcher. One possibility is trying to follow on the rumored Rangers-Braves deal--if the Rangers get Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the Cubs have asked their scouts for an opinion on Gerald Laird.

lovely...

Help me out if I am wrong here, but don't the Cubs have something like the #3 rated catcher in the minors waiting for an opportunity to play in the bigs?

Soto? #3 in what?

eeeeeee (read with wince)

Chad,
Steroids certainly enhance your perfomance, and Palmiero certainly benefited from that, but I think you're getting into some mucky muck when you start estimating what a player would have done had he not taken steroids.

proven vets dude!

Heyman's top 5 available starters at the moment...

Morris, Livan, Contrerars, Jennings and Lohse.

Glad we don't need a starter...

Garland, Lowry or Blanton may become available though

Josh Martin at the Cardinals blog is having a tough week.

Soto? #3 in what?

I read recently that Soto was ranked the #3 catching prospect in the minors.

Of course, I don't remember where I actually read that.

Oh well.

But I can tell you he can't be worse than Kendal/K. Hill/Baird/Bowen

Wes,

I don't agree. I think we all can look at Barry Bonds career and know that without steroids, he would never have hit 73 homers in one year.

poor guy, Mom passed away.

I do think that having a catcher that can at least contriibute offensively is important. I don't want the Cubs to settle for someone who "can't be worse" than what they have now. I want them to get someone who is distinctly better. Unfortunately, there just doesn't seem to be much out there...

Whose mom , RobG?

"Orioles starter Steve Trachsel..."

Steve Trachsel = Human Rain Delay

I don’t agree. I think we all can look at Barry Bonds career and know that without steroids, he would never have hit 73 homers in one year.

Perhaps... but that is not Wes's point (I think). His point is that you don't know what Bonds would have been able to hit without help. 30? 40? 50? You can't make that determination. In the same way, you can't make a claim that Raffy would have only hit 20 HR/80 RBI. You have no idea on what he would have done.

no Mom is good, Dad is in the hospital (the lingering family emergency I mentioned), but recently has been getting a lot better.

The mom in questions is the Cardinals blogger, Josh Martin, as per Jacos's post.

Dad is in the hospital (the lingering family emergency I mentioned), but recently has been getting a lot better.

Good to hear he is getting better!

you guys are crazy, Chad knows all. We can, without a doubt and with precise measurements know exactly how many home runs steroid and HGH contribute to each and every player.

Sosa never used either btw...
---

Listening to the radio this morning, local sports, but they were talking about Bonds and HGH and how it makes EVERYTHING grow on you. Apparently (No link or confirmation for you, sorry) Bonds's foot size went up from like an 11.5 to a 13 in his late 30's, early 40's.

worst lineup ever...

(getting a head start on the important traditional lineup bitching)

...and HGH and how it makes EVERYTHING grow on you.
-----

Even us wooden boys agree on that one.

Listening to the radio this morning, local sports, but they were talking about Bonds and HGH and how it makes EVERYTHING grow on you.
______________________________________________

Except your cock, and that, to me, is the primary reason not to do steroids.

Yeah, RobG, and so did his hat size, which is not something that changes at that age, either.

I don't have a link yet but a guy at another message board I troll says that Utley was hit in the hand today, significant swelling and even though he finished the game the Phils said in the postgame conference that he might have to go to the DL.

Does that single-handedly put them out of the race?

And if so, is Rowand available? Also guys like Mesa and Lieber are due to be FAs as well I believe.

"Perhaps… but that is not Wes’s point (I think). His point is that you don’t know what Bonds would have been able to hit without help. 30? 40? 50? You can’t make that determination. In the same way, you can’t make a claim that Raffy would have only hit 20 HR/80 RBI. You have no idea on what he would have done."

Dave you HAVE to be kidding, right? How about this, lets take palmeiro's first say, 5 years in the league. I think that would give us a good idea of what he would have done without steroids.

BTW no pun intended on single-handedly.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/barry_bo...
A different take on the Bonds situation...

Got a link on Utley... hand is broken.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/...

"Make US Relatively Proud, Barry!"...
Fans pointedly not booing.... Funny stuff...

God, I just took a quick look at the other blog that will remain nameless, and the idiocy is astounding. It's amazing how when I went to school there were those kids who called anyone who enjoyed math and learning nerds, and those kids grew up and are today calling anyone who like stats nerds and claiming they live in their mom's basement.

Those people frequent the other blog.

THe

not sure a team would fold the tent just because of an injury. You have to see what the replacement can do first or if you can trade for one.

and if it's just a 15-day DL trip you'd look pretty dumb raising the white flag.

Lieber is out for the year fwiw.

Unfortunately for them they have less than one spin of the rotation to decide.

wrote that before the link...

bummer for Philly, plus Utley is one of my favorite players to watch. Still don't think they'll just raise the white flag though.

I mean they have Abraham Nunez after-all...

That actually was my exact point, dave. Well done, sir.

Chad, you don't know that Palmeiro wasn't taking steroids his first 5 years in the league. Sure you can say "look, he couldn't hit homers and then he could!" Quite a viable argument.

Or, what if those somewhat lesser numbers are just his development into a big league hitter even on steroids?

You can't take enough steroids to make you learn how to hit big league breaking stuff. Most youngsters cannot hit curveball. They hit straightball very much. Curveball, bats are afraid.

We all agree that Palmeiro's numbers are tainted. But to start estimating his numbers minus PED's is both an unsolvable problem and a slippery slope.

game thread up...

rumor of course being that Canseco turned him on to PED's. Problem is Canseco didn't get there until the end of 1992 and his powers showed up in 1991. Although it really took off in 1995 when he turned 31.

whatever, pure speculation. Pretty riduculous to get into this and then turnaround and say Sosa emphatically never took 'roids.

I heard Patrick Arnold (the chemist who invented the clear) actually say on the Dan Patrick that HGH can actually can improve vision. If that's true, it could help players hit breaking stuff.

"Chad, you don’t know that Palmeiro wasn’t taking steroids his first 5 years in the league. Sure you can say “look, he couldn’t hit homers and then he could!” Quite a viable argument."

This is all true, in fact we can look at his numbers all the way up to 1992 (Precanseco) and I still see a significant difference.

You're right, there is no way to know exactly. However, I think we all can make a very educated guess.

FWIW, 1 for 15 for Jason Kendall *is* a small sample size. He's more of a 3 for 15 hitter.

Johann, not just hit breaking stuff. Hit ANYTHING. Even a hitting a fastball takes great hand eye coordination. Improve the vision and you improve the hitter.

yeah, I recall the vision thing a few years ago about Bonds. It seems like that would be just as big a factor as bigger muscles.

I think there's someone here who's name rhymes with CHAD who says that Sosa developed his power as he matured and grew into his frame. That person often has said the same thing will happen with Pie. I suppose by that rationale, Palmeiro just grew into his frame and developed the extra power as he matured and his frame filled out.

re: Dmac

Steve Trachsel = Human Rain Delay

Hell is where you are stuck playing crappy 8 bit electronic baseball 24/7, and the only players are Steve Trachsel pitching to Mike Hargrove.

Well, John I will accept that with proper weight training the guy could go from, I dunno, hitting 8, 8, and 14 home runs to 26. I can see that. But then Canseco gets there and he starts hitting 30 + homers almost every year for the next 11. Then he fails a drug test.

To be fair, that's a small increase in HR totals when compared to Sosa's increase in HR totals. Sammy went from a mid 30's HR guy to a 60-some HR guy all of a sudden and had a noticeable increase in body size.

bjs,

I hear you. You make good points. HOWEVER:

1. Palmiero was named in Canseco's book.
2. Palmiero failed a drug test.

Neither of those apply to Sammy Sosa

I didn't read the Canseco's book but I thought he did name Sosa, not as someone he gave or saw but someone who had all the signs and he could tell by looking at his body.

and if it wasn't in the book, it was definitely in a TV interview I saw.

I am pretty sure he calls out Sosa but for the same reasons that everybody else did. He has no evidence beyond what we already know or think.

I like Chad's conclusion. Only former Canseco teammates used Steroids. That's obviously it. Canseco was ROY in '86, right? Dave Kingman must have been on roids since he had the record for most HR's in a year by a guy over 40.

Palmeiro never had the body type of a guy you associate with steroids (Canseco, Gonzalez, Pudge), but he did test positive so he must have been doing them for 15 years. It's hard to say. Maybe that was the first time he took them because he saw his career was fading, maybe not. The court of public opinion exonerated him at the same time it convicted McGwire and Sosa. Maybe the court of publc opinion (including Chad's claims of being able to pinpoint the year and effect of steroids on Palmeiro's career) is full of shit.

Ryne Sandberg started taking steroids in the off-season leading up to '89. He had a bad year in '88 providing motivation, then all of the sudden he started hitting for more power than he ever had before. He saw what steroids did for Dawson in '87 and thought he should give it a try. (I don't think that's true by the way, Mr. Sandberg and Mr. Dawson's attorneys).

That'll shut 'em up everytime. I win at Internet.

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