Game 101 Thread / Cubs @ Reds (1 of 3)

Game Chat Rich Hill vs. Bronson Arroyo Lineups:
Soriano LF Freel CF
Theriot SS Keppinger SS
Lee 1B Griffey Jr. RF
Ramirez 3B Phillips 2B
Floyd RF Dunn LF
DeRosa 2B Conine 1B
Jones CF Encarnacion 3B
Kendall C Ross C
Hill P Arroyo P
Billy Petrick and Jake Fox do get optioned to AAA as speculated and Matt Murton and Rocky Cherry are called back up.
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Comments

Huzzah. DeRosa's back.

that is a crappy lineup.

* * * * * *

would it be too much to ask soriano to sit, if even for one game? a further 7 years of hot/cold/hot/cold and no in-between will be interminable.
why not plug in murton right away? if he gets off the plane from iowa hitting, why slow him down?

We're effed with that lineup. Not even going to bother to listen tonight. And Hill is pitching? I thought we optioned him to Iowa.

Don't be so HASTY gentlemen!

Jason Kendall is on a hot streak.

Soriano has been striking out quickly to allow the actual lead-off batter to get on base.

Rich Hill will do O.K. and give up less HR's than Arroyo tonight, while A-Ram will rake!

But I think I will play music tonight and catch the recap later - he he.

Just noticed the similarity between the 1945 Cubs and this years addition:

When the Cubs last won the pennant the pitching staff led the league in ERA (3.43) while the offense was middle of the pack (4th/8) in runs scored.

This year our offense is middle of the pack (8th/16) scoring runs, but the pitching staff has the second lowest ERA (3.88).

It can be done.

White Sox trade Iguchi to the Phils for a doobie? Boy, Kenny Williams is taking this season a lot harder than I thought.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/unconfi...

Levine supposedly reported Murton is being showcased potentially for a Dunn or Griffey swap that would include at least Gallagher.

Of course if you're being showcased, shouldn't you be...you know...playing?

Yeah, I'm really disappointed that Lou is not playing right away. Kendall playing again... Lou is obviously willing to quickly abandon the alternating catcher plan as soon as one of them does AnYTHING with the bat.
This lineup sucks!!! I am happy to see DeRosa back, though...

Light rain passing thru the Cincy area now...expect some rain delays tonight as I saw the local radar

Saw DLee get into a cab to go from the hotel to the park slot of autograph seekers but all were polite...I love road trips, makes me feel like a teen...heading to the park in a few...bringing umbrellas

Murton + JJ + prospect(s) for Tejada.

Mark it down.

TJ Whosyourmama

championship

Yeah, I’m really disappointed that Lou is not playing right away.

What position does Lou play? RF?

White Sox trade Iguchi to the Phils for a doobie?

Not a bad deal, depending on the size of the doobie. Or maybe its a DTBNL.

Either way, this lineup is rubbish.

I predicted Nomar. I predicted Izturis (for better or worse). It will happen.

I still say that Mongo/Dunn is NOT the answer to the Cubs' woes... Of all the options I have seen, I have to say that I like Griffey the most. We're trying to establish a Cubbie swagger? Him in the lineup, and the OF would be a boost. No idea what it will take, but that is the best case for me...

This lineup better perform better than gay witchcraft. As we saw yesterday, gay witchcraft is no help at all!

I forgot to say that I just HATE the notion of having to stick Mongo in the OF every day. He will be a headache EVERY DAY he is out there.

BTW, if we are going to get Dunn or Griffey, that deal will not be finalized until Sunday night at the earliest.

Mr. Whipple, I think it's best if we never mention that ever again.

Chad, I hope you are right!

I now look forward to the day we get a google hit from the search term "gay witchcraft"...

According to ESPN 1000 Aaron Rowand hurt his shoulder "playing tag with neighborhood kids" last night, and is out indefinatley.

Phillie fan almost as tough as being a Cubs fan.

No Tejada.

Too much of risk with that wrist.

Griff-E, Griff-E, Griff-E...

what kind of crazy-ass game of tag was he playing?

Tejada's wrist injury wasn't nearly as bad as Lee's. Non-displaced fracture, he almost played through it don't forget.

here's a link on Rowand, doesn't sound so bad....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basebal...

day-to-day, tweaked left shoulder

"whip":
This lineup better perform better than gay witchcraft. As we saw yesterday, gay witchcraft is no help at all!

What happens in parachat stays in parachat.

Light rain passing thru the Cincy area now…expect some rain delays tonight as I saw the local radar

Holy shit, Cubster can see Radar - he's like a bat.

Chad,

Kudos for the TJ Whosyomama reference. Very nicely done.

Rob G.:
I now look forward to the day we get a google hit from the search term “gay witchcraft”…

Search term: "Aaron Rowand gay witchcraft with neighbor kids"

Results 2-2:

* The Cub Reporter

* MySpace: Aaron Rowand

Rynox:

Post.Of.The.Week.

iPhone has radar

Reds pregame crew says game won't start until "at least 7:45 eastern."

Tarp is on.

I don't think I'd let my kids play with an injury-prone big leaguer. Luckily, thanks to Illinois law, if an injury-pron big leaguer moves into our neighborhood he has to walk up to every house and introduce himself.

listen to some cubbies music today and everyday!

http://cubsfans.com/all.m3u

go cubs!

Bronson has 2 of his 3 career homers against the Cubs. Both off Glendon Rusch. Lets hope Hill doesn't hang anything either. I will be there to throw it back though! Of course this is the only game i'm getting to see this weekend so the Cubs will lose 12-1 and i'll have to hear it at work all weekend.

Geez...how much salary would the Cubs take on with Griffey?
It's be great, if he can stay healthy.

Adam Dunn in RF? (shudder)

"No Tejada.

Too much of risk with that wrist."

I would HATE it if he put up DLee post injury numbers. That would really suck to have 2 DLees in this lineup. I mean over half of us want DLee to be DFA'd!

and another thing... It really pisses me off with these fucking "couple showers" now-a-days. The Cubs are in town and i can't go cuz these fucking women are dragging us men into these rediculous functions...!

Ron Santo interviewed MATT MURTON just now. Asked him if he worked on his swing in AAA.

MM said he didn't work on anything specifically, just the mental preparedness side of it. He said something about "letting the game come to him, not going after it" and getting his stroke back by being mentally prepared to hit each day.

ihh...

Chill Cincykid

He also called Ron Santo "sir."

Cincykid, don't be a wimp and do what I do, SAY NO!!!

Grow a sack.

Is Tejada playing today or what?

I'm at the game right now and it's still piss pouring. Any one got a line on when or if they plan to peel the tarp and play?

Chad has a point.

Cincykid, small world. I just got out of a meeting where the lameness of couple showers was brought up. I'd never heard of couple showers before today.

Well, not the kind you're talking about. Woof!

Yanks and O's are finishing their suspended game first.

Tejada isn't in the lineup at the moment...

Anyone who thinks Floyd and Murton are bad - wait until you see Clank take on the vines in early Autumn twilight. Brutal will be the least congenial thing that's said about his play, he'll make KingKong Dave look good by comparison.

What the hell is a couple shower?

Appreciate any updates any one may have on the weather situation. I too really believe in the lameness of couple showers. My friends and I just refer to them as "CS".

Thanks a bunch.

I think couple shower is despicable. Just IMHO.

Any idea when play will start?

Will Carroll on Dunn rumor:

Adam Dunn to the Cubs? No. The Reds are very reluctant to deal him within the division, and the Cubs know that it's a tough sell to take on any salary at this stage. The one interesting twist is that the Cubs are trying to get Dunn to flip him, according to one source; I don't buy into that. The rumored names just don't make sense, though I do think that the Nats could look for a third party to help facilitate a deal.

the wife and I enjoy taking showers together...

What? That's not what you're talking about, crap.

nevermind.

No updates to report, Chris. Thom Brennaman on FSNCI said they didn't really know when they were getting started. The radar sure doesn't look very promising.

Thanks for the heads up rob g

WGN says there will be an update at 7PM

Closed circuit radio feed on Cubs network says there will be an update from Media Relations at 7pm central.

Yeah, I’m really disappointed that Lou is not playing right away. Kendall playing again… Lou is obviously willing to quickly abandon the alternating catcher plan as soon as one of them does AnYTHING with the bat.

I dont think LouPa meant it would be a literal every other game thing.

Cincykid, don’t be a wimp and do what I do, SAY NO!!!

Chad in parachat the other day: "Who am I kidding. I'm whipped." Just saying.

And I fully support couple showers.

Holy shit, Cubster can see Radar - he’s like a bat.

I suspect he's using gay witchcraft....or an iPhone. Is there a difference?

I sure don't believe Will Carroll, there. I don't think Hendry would flip Dunn if he got him.

There's nobody out there that would A) take Dunn and B) have pieces that are worth flipping him for.

for the record, Will Carroll didn't believe it either.

I sure don't believe Will Carroll's source, there.

Sorry. I just hate him so much. I tried to not blame him for that. I couldn't help myself.

There’s nobody out there that would A) take Dunn and B) have pieces that are worth flipping him for.

Well... I would think that Hendry would only trade for Dunn, with the intention of flipping him, if he had something lined up already.

And I fully support couple showers.

Actually, I even wrote a blog post about it a while back. :)

Yeah, but what could that be? Who would rent him? Only a contender. What contender is going to give up enough quality pieces that fit the Cubs' needs that warrant Dunn going the other direction?

Also, Padres trade for Scott Hairston.

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/press_rel...

What do you think Crunch would have to say about this Adam Dunn rumor? Just askin'.

adam who?

Man, I hope they are not considering Mongo... Please let that be wrong....

word be that Randy Johnson is undergoing season-ending back surgery

yeah a 40 HR's, 370+ OBP, who needs that?

I don't care how bad his defense is...

dave: "And I fully support couple showers."

I know what I'm risking her but I have to do it.

dave you are a total pussy.

I said it, I stand by it.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that sex doggie style is degrading to women and that you wish that men could give birth too.

The flaming begins....

now

here is a link:

The Maximized Big Dave Lowitzky

http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.asp...

Man, I hope Hendry doesn't feel the same way you do, Rob... That specimen is best oogled at from a distance...

Rain delays are fun.

And unless the Diamondbacks just thew in the towel, that trade makes no sense.

hopefully Dave takes the good-natured ribbing but getting dangerously close to crossing the line there Chad....

since Dbacks have won 6 in a row and lead the WC standings, I'm going to say they haven't thrown in the towel.

did you at least check the link?

i totally get that rob (re 76) how do you trade IN DIVISION to a team that you are in direct competition with for the division championship and wild card? that's why it makes no sense to me.

chad, you're such a...well, stereotypical conservative.

its uncanny.

cause it's Scott Hairston...

who the fuck cares where he goes?

it's not Adam Dunn.

yeah saw the link, "total pussy" I could do without.

i knew to what you were referring.

btw.

735pm tentative start.

The one aspect of the Will Carroll column snippet regarding the Cubs "flipping" Dunn to another team is the Nats' interest in Dunn. They would like to acquire him and pair him up with Austin Kearns again in the new ballpark next year. Of course they could always sign him but might want to try and pull the trigger now. But since the Nats don't have prospects to trade, they would need a third team involved.

Ryan Church and Chad Cordero from Nats to Cubs
Dunn from Reds to Nats
Murton, low-level Cub prospect, and low-level Nat prospect to Reds

Has it stopped raining?

and to be fair:

The Maximized Chad

http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.asp...

DC Tom - Is that just off the top of your head?

Twins death spiral in full-force, down 6-0 to the Indians.

tarp is off but its starting to rain again, yuck...

go weather radar....

CUBSTER:

Where does the team stay in Cincinnati?

Chad... I am deeply offended that you would challenge my manhood. Because my entire goal in life is to be assured that Chad approves of how "manly" I am.

Of course... I am not sure how caring about gender roles has any relation to being "a pussy." But what do I care.

And no... didn't visit the link.

But at least I don't make everyone else around here look smart! :)

We need a podcast.

Another disaster of a night. So much for winning. It was fun while it lasted.

Yea... seriously. So much for winning. Because the cubs have lost two games. The season must be over. You can just forget about having the best record in baseball over the last 7 weeks. That means nothing. Because the Cubs have lost one game, and are losing a second.

The season is over.

I like couples showers, at least the kind we have. No games, just talking to lots of people, and I am a very outgoing person and love to talk. Since there's a lot of men, you can talk manly stuff only if you are that worried about your manhood, I don't personally spend that much time worrying about it. But I also like doggy style!

By the way, our lineup sucks.

Yeah, Matt is overreacting a wee bit. Seriously, though, with this offense they should be crushing the competition. What's going on?

The season is far from over. It's just frustrating to see them go on a tear like they have and still be only 5 games over .500 and three games out of first if they lose again tonight.

Does Arroyo only pitch this way against the Cubs? The guy always seems to own them, particularly at Cincy.

Actually, the only two games we won this year against the Reds has been against Arroyo.

But no team is going to have the kind of winning percentage we've had over a full half season. We're going to lose some, and the trick is going on the winning streak at playoff time.

WHIPPLE: "I suspect he’s using gay witchcraft….or an iPhone. Is there a difference?"

What the hell does this mean?

Can you explain this to us?

Finally. Something resembling a rally.

JASON FING KENDALL!

Jesus Christ, beautiful play by Ryan Freel.

What a play by Freel! Damn. Still, gotta love this team no matter what happens.

i'll say it - that was a half-hearted attempt to score by jones.

what kind of asshat pitching was that with 1B open? good god.

that was a half-hearted attempt to score by jones.

Yea... I am sure he wasn't trying to score the winning run.

7 pitchers used in this 'gem'.

even without the tie it would have been 6 arms used tonite.

what a buzzkill loss...at least the bats showed up at some point i guess.

welcome back derosa...

well, the play i saw showed a very clear let up before impact - and that's unfortunate b/c the ball was there about one nanosecond before jock.

Fucking Howry.

Jason Kendall is one of the worst hitters in major league baseball. If the Cubs are trying to be the best team in major league baseball, then what the fuck is Kendall doing on our team. Get him the fuck off the roster.

Jason Kendall is one of the worst hitters in major league baseball.

Yea... he sucked on his game tying single.

Yeah he did suck. I guess by that rationale, Ted Lilly had an RBI single the other day too. Hows abouts we trys him at clean up!!

I am just saying that Kendall is not the problem with this team. You can not pick one player (unless his name is Barrett) and get rid of the player and all things will be better.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like Kendall, and I don't like the trade that got him here.

But the bigger issue is that the Cubs scored 2 unearned runs against Bronson Arroyo. And that isn't just Kendall's fault.

all-star level conributions from lee and soriano:
0 for 8 with 3 k's and an error permitting freel to score the 4th run.

cherry was the pits.

when your best relief pitcher was will ohman, you don't deserve a "w".

give it another go saturday night; harang vs marshall seems like a rough matchup.

Ugh... this Giants/Marlins game is really ugly.

And I can't believe I am staying up to see Bonds walk.

Valverde blows a save for the D-backs. He walks Yuniel Escobar with 2 outs and ties his shoes without calling for time so Escobar steals 2nd. Valverde then gives up a bloop single to Willie Harris.

Am I the only one who has no interest in watching Bonds tie or break Aaron's record?

Jermain Dye homered again, 6th since the break I believe.

Ryan Freel put on a defensive show tonight....f*****.

I don't think anyone thought there would be a play on that ball. Wonder if someone was telling JJ to slide or not cause I think he would made it if someone did. Still an amazing play, barehanded pick-up, and a rocket to the plate.

But damn, score Rich Hill some freaking runs already.

speaking of Dye, was on his way to the RSox apparently in a 3-team deal but something didn't work out.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7065740

if Barry doesn't break the record this weekend, they play the Dodgers next at Dodger Stadium. Ouch!

But damn, score Rich Hill some freaking runs already.

ESPN just said Rich Hill has received the worst run support in the NL.

I don’t think anyone thought there would be a play on that ball. Wonder if someone was telling JJ to slide or not cause I think he would made it if someone did.

Yea... that was what I was saying in parachat. It is a tough call to make for JJ, but whoever was on deck (Soriano?) should have been out there telling him to slide. I think with a decent slide he would have been safe.

Oh well...

Lets hope Marshall keeps pitching well and Harang forgets that he is really damn good.

btw... anyone else find it kinda' odd that LouPa brought in Cherry when he did?

The game was still very much in reach, and bringing in your 12th pitcher didn't make much sense to me. You want to keep that game as close as possible, and Cherry (of the 5+ era in AAA) doesn't seem like the best guy to do that.

That Rosenthal piece says the Red Sox promised Dye he play 5 times a week. With Crisp, Drew, Manram, Ortiz and Youk in place that seems odd. I guess Crisp was in the deal or they could trade Lowell to the LA teams for prospects. So here is a 3 team trade idea:

BOS gets: Dye
CHC gets: Crisp
CWS gets: Cedeno and Hansen

that does make sense, Drew could slide into CF, but why trade Crisp?

He's been hitting a ton since the break and his defense in CF has been all-world.

I wouldn't mind that trade at all.

Rob,

I think they want to play Ellsbury in CF next year.

Ellsbury is on the minor league DL for now. Don't think it's serious though.

Brewers picked up another bullpen arm, Seth McClung for Grant Balfour.

Did anybody see Fontenot telling Jacque to get down from the on deck circle?

I didn't see if he was or wasn't. If he wasn't, you can certainly blame Jacque, but some of the blame goes on Fontenot for that, too.

I don't blame JJ. He thought he was going to be out so he tried to take out the catcher.

That's good baseball.

just saw Jones play on ESPN this morning---how do you not score on a ball that bounces over the pitchers head and then bounces its way to CF?---notice how wide Jones was coming in to the plate---poor baserunning

#118-
no.

#119 rob g.-
Ryan Freel put on a defensive show tonight….

the catch vs jones in the 2nd hurt at least as much as the throw in the 9th.
2-0 lead, man on 2nd (or 3rd), 1 out...the cubs could just as easily have had arroyo on the ropes.
rats.

Did anybody see Fontenot telling Jacque to get down from the on deck circle?

No... you couldn't see anyone telling him to slide on any of the replays I saw. And it would have been Soriano telling him to slide, as Fontenot is the one who got the hit. Soriano was coming up next.

Encarnacion wasnt too shabby on defense either!

Maybe Freel was just demonstrating to Jones how to properly throw someone out from the outfield?

Here is a bad rumor alert:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07282007/sports/m...

Apparently according to Sherman, Jimbo would give Pie to Texas for Laird and relievers. I hope those relievers would be Gagne and Otsuka.

Apparently according to Sherman, Jimbo would give Pie to Texas for Laird and relievers.

I call BS... that doesn't make any sense.

The Cubs org is way too high on Pie to trade him for a mediocre catcher and some rental relief pitchers.

Hendry is going to be on Levine's show in 8 min.

#135: I hope those relievers would be Gagne and Otsuka.

Otsuka is on the 15-day DL with forearm tightness, so trading for him doesn't seem likely.

I think even Hendry would know that better relief pitching would be nice, but not that nice.

Our 5th round pick Guyer from U of Virginia, got into his 1st action in Mesa last night with 1 for 4.

Kerry Wood threw his second in a back-to-back rehab outing last night at Peoria:

K (called)
6-3
F-7

Now the Cubs will need to find out how Woody feels after throwing in back-to-back games, and then decide if and when he will be moved up to AAA Iowa to continue his rehab.

The Cubs also need to decide if Henry Blanco is ready to join the Cubs, or if he needs some ABs at AAA first. Blanco went 4-12 with a double and 3/3 BB/K in 15 PA at Peoria this week, catching Kerry Wood in each of Wood's three appearances at Peoria.

"Apparently according to Sherman, Jimbo would give Pie to Texas for Laird and relievers. I hope those relievers would be Gagne and Otsuka."

Horrible.

My mistake, dave. You're right. Soriano.

But my point remains the same. Where was he?

pie's ridden the 40-man before his time and been refused in trades for so long i find it hard to believe a catcher who's 2 years too late for his "breakout year" would be more attractive.

Chifan...did hendry get asked or say anything interesting?

AZ, I know this has been covered before but I'm old and senile.

I think Koyie Hill out of options, and he can't be sent down to the minors this year?

If that's the case, I'd actually rather have Hill than Kendall, I hate to say, if Blanco comes up.

Cubster,

There were 2 interesting things came out of it. First he shot down the Sherman rumor by saying how getting W--- back would be as good as any trade. Second he was being asked by Chet Coppack about the trib sale affecting adding payroll would effect adding a power hitting RF like and Hendry stopped him before he could mention Dunn or Griffey saying he did not want to get into speific names. I found this odd because usually his response to a question like that is to say the rumored player is talented, but their franchise holds alot of value in him. Maybe he got a memo from MLB about violations of tampering roles ore maybe he feels he has a good chance to get one of them and doesnt want to get slapped with tampering charges for what he might say or didnt want to upset Krivisky. I guess that is the beauty of the deadline, we can make mountins out of molehills.

MIL with a quick 4 run lead...meh

brad thompson gave up 4 runs and threw 58 pitches to get through 2 innings against the brewers in game one of the doubleheader already. does not bode well for this game, or the next one considering the cards already blah bullpen.

ryan braun 2-2 with a HR and 3 RBIs already.

as much as i hate to say it (cuz who doesnt want more when you're in 2nd place, usually) unless they plan on getting a real-07 impact RF'r i dont see a move worth making.

assuming wood back takes care of that cherry/petrick spot and marmol/howry/dumpster are around...not that bad. besides, look how much linebrink "cost" just a 2 and 1/2 month rental. pitching is super-premium right now and some middle-road option is barely worth doing given what's already here.

there are upgrades that could be made...but its the price im worried about vs. what's coming on board.

this is all discounting the "trying to shift JJ for a part" thing.

Milwaukee already up 6-2 against Cards. I've got a bad feeling about this weekend.

But my point remains the same. Where was he?

I completely agree Wes - I am not sure. But Soriano doesn't have the greatest "baseball smarts."

But also, I don't think ANYONE thought there would be a play at the plate. Freel really just made a helluva' play.

I don't see where shifting Jack Jones makes sense at this point? He is finally hitting and he has maintained steady CF defense. Unless we have a Willie Mays in our back pocket that I am missing. He is still the best option for that job.

Aaron,

Jacquestrap isnt starting to hit. He still hitting weak grounders. The last couple of weeks they have found holes. Pie or even E-pat is a better CF option.

He may be aaronb...Jones has hit some since the AS break.
Of course, he's still slugging .337...which stinks.

He's doing all right I guess.

Chad's 25 man (non pitchers)

Soriano LF
Pie CF
DLee 1B
ARam 3B
Miguel Tejada SS
Floyd RF
DeRosa 2B
Catcher C (intended as I hope we can upgrade)

Ward (if healthy)
Soas (or Reggie Sanders)
Pagan
Theriot or Fonty
Backup catcher

GO CARD!

Cordero blows it.

6 6 bottom 9

St Louis just tied it in the 9th!!

Jacquestrap isnt starting to hit. He still hitting weak grounders.

Not really true. Sure - some of his hits have been weak grounders, but he also hit some pretty hard line drives. He is most definitely starting to hit better. And he is hitting better right now than what Pie showed when he was given the chance.

GAME CARDS!!!!

Nice... now lets hope we can get some hits against Harang tonite!

The best part is that the Brewers blew through their best relievers too!!! And the Cards best(fwiw) didn't pitch.

Brewers LOSE, Brewers Lose...clutch hits by Rolen and Ludwick

7-6 final

radar sez...some storm clouds just cleared over Iowa skies?

chifan said: Pie or even E-pat is a better CF option [than Jones].

Speaking of which, Patterson played CF last night, I believe for the first time this season.

Jorge Cantu to the Reds. Not sure who the D-Rays got in return.

Here's Ross on the play at the plate:

"He threw a strike to me, kind of led me into the runner, which was perfect," Ross said. "I think if it would have been on the plate ... I probably wouldn't have been able to tag him because he took such a wide turn, he probably would have gotten the back part of the plate."

My take, after watching the Reds' broadcast of the play (mlb.com) about twenty times:

The wide turn not only cost Jones extra steps but committed him to sliding behind the plate and trying to touch the back of it. When the deep throw put the catcher in his path, Jones realized that he would miss the plate if he slid. The best he could do from his steep angle was veer into Ross. He didn't hit Ross harder because he didn't intend to hit him in the first place. He intended to slide.

The alternative for a better baserunner who had taken a more direct route would have been to slide on the first-base side and touch the plate with his right hand.

I don't see the Cantu transaction yet SL but it's probably a minor league deal. Cantu was dent to Durham on July 20th (notice who they brought up):

Devil Rays July 20: Recalled pitcher Jae Kuk Ryu and purchased the contract of pitcher Scott Dohmann from Durham of the International League (AAA); optioned infielder Jorge Cantu to Durham; designated outfielder Dustan Mohr for assignment.

his 2007 line was awful but he only got 58 AB's
.207 .277 .224

that play was waaaay closer than it should have been. jones ran a speed path and was beaten by a barehanded snag, a killer throw that isnt easily replicated, and a catcher who held the ball on contact that knocked him down.

syzygy...

Man... people will do anything to attack Jock Jones, won't they.

The Cubs got beat from some great defense last night. That is just the way it is. Would it have been different if he had been able to slide? Perhaps... we will never know. But you can't really fault JJ - he was running hard, and Freel make a great play bare-handing a ball in the outfield and making a perfect throw.

It happens.

You can fault JJ because he distinctly slowed down as he neared the catcher. If he didn't slow down, he gets to the catcher before or right as the throw got there.

RE: # 164: VP - A couple of months ago the I-Cubs played E-Pat in CF for a handful of games while Pie was still in Chicago. At that time it seemed clearly an experiment ordered @ headquarters. As for last night, Iowa was down to only nine position players which led to lots of unorthodox positioning, to wit: player/coach Mike Mahoney was activated to play LF, which he'd never done before; pitcher Kevin Hart was used as a PH, etc. - so, last night, E-Pat was in CF strictly out of necessity until reinforcements, Fox being one, arrive.

I can fault Jock Jones for not hitting a HR since June 1.
I can fault him for sucking for April-May-June.

April:
.280/.337/.341- avg and OBP about right for Jacque..SLG?..ugh.
May:
.205/.263/.329...pretty bad there...
June:
.176/.250/.275...geez...that is just terrible.
July:
.308/.383/.404 0 HR's. He's geting hits at least.
I hope that he keeps hitting, because if he cools at all, and the power doesn't show up, buh-bye.

I can fault Jock Jones for not hitting a HR since June 1.
I can fault him for sucking for April-May-June.

That is fine, but that is a different discussion. But for that discussion, JJ was great in the second half last year after a terrible start. Just saying...

You can fault JJ because he distinctly slowed down as he neared the catcher. If he didn’t slow down, he gets to the catcher before or right as the throw got there.

Acutally, Doug, you can fault Soriano for that. If the on deck hitter isn't there to tell you that you need to slide, the general assumption by a baserunner is that there isn't going to be a play at home plate. Debate the merits of that if you like, but that's generally how it works.

Wes there is no question that the on deck batter becomes the 'home base coach' but this isn't rookie ball. When you see the catcher set up to receive the ball, you assume a play is on.

I agree with Wes - it is the responsibility of the player on deck to tell JJ whether or not to slide.

But Soriano will continue to get off easily (as he will for his error last night) while JJ gets continually attacked.

I do think that JJ would have been safe if he slid to the inside of the play. But it is a tough, split second decision that he should be getting help from by the player on deck.

Thanks for your input.

The catcher sets up on every play. Every time. That's no different regardless of whether that throw comes to second or if it goes home.

Jacque didn't see his on deck hitter telling him to slide, and by the time he realized that the throw was going to beat him, he had no other option except a half-assed catcher railroad attempt.

Again. If you choose to debate the merit of that, then go right ahead. But, I'm telling you that's how it works.

When you see the catcher set up to receive the ball, you assume a play is on.

That doesn't necessarily mean you should slide though, does it? There are times where you should slide into home, and there are times where you need to try to knock the ball out via a collision.

That is where Soriano should have been helping out.

Wes you are way off, there are times when a catcher is up in a ready posistion like a ball player should and times when you can see that he's about to catch a ball. You know the difference. So do I and so should Jock.

dave, I don't think that the on deck guy helps you decide how to come into the plate. getting down and waving your arms down at home just means there is a play coming. the runner decides how he wants to take on the catcher.

Nope... sorry chad. The runner is not looking at the play and the throw - he has no idea if he is better off sliding or colliding.

Even MLB players need help on the bases, which is why they have 1st/3rd base coaches.

Wes you are way off, there are times when a catcher is up in a ready posistion like a ball player should and times when you can see that he’s about to catch a ball.

Wait. You're telling me that catchers don't try to deke runners? I just want to make sure that's what your saying here. Because they do. Whenever they get the chance.

You guys are way wrong. There is no "knock the guy over sign" its either play or no play.

and catcher's deke runner? why? to laugh at them when they slide in safe with no play. There is no reason for a catcher to deke a guy.

and catcher’s deke runner? why? to laugh at them when they slide in safe with no play. There is no reason for a catcher to deke a guy.

Wrong again, Chad. There's no reason for them to act like they do have the ball when they don't, but there is a very good reason for them to act like they're not going to get the ball when they will, and it happens in about 10% of plays at the plate, in the bigs.

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