Game 102 Thread / Cubs @ Reds (2 of 3)

Game Chat Sean Marshall vs. Aaron Harang Lineups:
Soriano LF Freel CF
Theriot SS Hopper RF
Lee 1B Conine 1B
Floyd RF Phillips 2B
DeRosa 3B Dunn LF
Fontenot 2B Keppinger SS
Jones CF Encarnacion 3B Kendall C Ross C Marshall P Harang P


Milwaukee blows a big lead, drops the first game to St Louis: Go Cardinals!

My God, did I just say that?

Just a crazy idea... from the insane NY Post rumor that Pie could be headed to Texas and someone asking the question on NSB that maybe Laird isn't the catcher we'd get in return...

CHC gets:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Ron Mahay

TEX gets:
Geovany Soto
Felix Pie
Elvis Andrus
Matt Hairston

ATL gets:
Mark Teixeira
Scott Eyre

Something along these lines, maybe other peripheral players involved... word is that Atlanta wants a major league reliever in order to include Andrus in the deal, this would help solve that.

Entirely a pipe dream, but hey, maybe Little Jim is working under the radar to help speed this deal along.

big underdog for the matchup in game 2 of that DH

Reyes called up again (0-10) vs Capuano

lets hope this is a day for underdog matchups (ie. Harang vs Marshall)

man, our lineup tonight is suck-tacular.

or, will be, once it is posted.

soriano at home .282/.407/.689 49 k 5 hr 14 rbi
soriano on road .382/.604/.986 39 k 11 hr 23 rbi

.986 vs .689 ops mirror image away vs. wrigley

anybody mind if i suggest to the cubs that they simply put alfonso in a shipping crate at the end of tomorrow's game, and send it to houston: "do not open until august 6" ?

dr jekyll and mr. fonzie, wow.

Soriano looks like he could use a day off...

trade scenario in #2 sounds both plausible and desirable, especially w/ all the free agent CF's that will be available for us to woo this winter.

.986 vs .689 ops mirror image away vs. wrigley

Interestingly... D-Lee has been the opposite, at least in terms of power. His first home run on the road was hit last night.

Home: .387/.469/.626
Away: .282/.366/.384

I thought Atlanta wants an MLB reliever, not Scott Eyre. ???

another good new scoreboard watchers special...

Astros 3 Padres 1

Oswalt over Maddux, Barrett 0-4

I thought Atlanta wants an MLB reliever, not Scott Eyre. ???

Scott Eyre hasn't given up a run in 6 straight appearances.

Just saying...

I know Pie has been untouchable in the past, but if the Cubs could end up with Saltalamachia, I say trade Pie. I would think it would be a lot easier to find a CF to replace Pie in the future than it would be to find a good catcher.

Call me when he does that in a game-changing situation, dave.

It's never been a mechanical problem with him this year.

Call me when he does that in a game-changing situation, dave.

I don't disagree. But he does seem to be throwing the ball a little better lately (though still struggling control).

And he still is definitely not a guy I want to trust in any kind of meaningful situation.

No ARam tonight. grrrr



Interesting lineup.... DeRosa hitting 4th? I guess the Cubs really do need another power hitter.

no griffey...he must be transferring all his gear from the home locker room to the visitor's.

(insert smiley icon here)

Murton! How I've missed him. Also, that Kendall, he does suck (so he'll hit his first HR in a year now, right?)

I'd say a Pie for Salty trade wouldn't be bad. Is Salty at all decent defensively?

Bruce Levine reporting at NSB that Murton has been pulled for Cliff Floyd. No Griff, No Murt... hmm....

err, Bruce Miles. Sorry.

Hollinger's right.


Hmmmmm indeed...

Hmmm indeed, indeed.

Griffey is not in the Reds lineup also. Maybe Murt biggest MLB accompishent will be he was traded for Griffey?

Astros just traded Wiggigton to HOU for Wheeler.

Wiggington not Wigiggiton. Finger got stuck on the g button.

If Murt isn't getting traded tonight, is he eligible to play since he was originally announced?

Surprising with all the contenders clamoring for Wiggy that the Stros got him. Not sad to see Wheeler go to the AL.

You can make any changes you want to the lineup up until the first pitch.

So we can still protect Jones with Marshall instead of Kendall, eh? =)

WPZ — July 28, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
If Murt isn’t getting traded tonight, is he eligible to play since he was originally announced?


WPZ: A manager can change a lineup anytime up until the managers (or managers representatives) exchange lineups at home plate. Then once the lineups are exchanged, they become official.

According to Miles at NSBB,Lou said Murton was pulled because he decided he would rather have Floyd play tonight then tommrrow. Of course, if a trade was in the works I doubt he would say "yeah Murt is not playing tonight because Jim told me were trading him for Griffey."

Kasper saying that Floyd asked to play tonight instead of tomorrow.

So the Reds announcers are going on and on about how Lee's power numbers are down this year, then immediately Lee smacks a 2-run homer. Quite amusing.

Harang out for some reason.

good break getting Harang out after 1 inning...trying to not jinx anything but the Reds bullpen is about as bad as it gets in MLB.

Soriano looks like he could use a day off…

Glad it wasn't today.

Harang was pulled because of back spasms...I wonder how much of that is related to his previous 10 inning outing.

TONY GWYNN tells media ANDRE DAWSON belongs in the Hall...

""As far as right fielders go in our league, Andre Dawson was the dominant guy on a daily basis," Gwynn said. "He was a great defender, with a great arm and instincts. He could hit for power, hit for average and steal a base. When I started out, he was the man."

... Thanks Tony!

If in fact the Astros traded Wiggington to Houston for Wheeler... ahhhh never mind

Quade is super cautious all year and then they send Marshall with no outs? That sucks.

He sure don't run good. I've learned that much in the last 5 minutes.

Cards are rolling in game two
2nd inning

They showed the replay of Sean Marshall running on the hit by Soriano and Sean Marshall was not hustling and Bob Brennaly said you can expect Sean Marshall get chewed out by Sweet Lou!!

And I am wondering what Houston got back from Tampa for Tampa's player?

I don't really want Marshall hustling. No reason to chance an injury or having your pitcher tired out. Just hold him at 3rd and let your good hitters come up.

Go Cubs...

I have to admit that I'm watching the ESPN Giants game (history is history)...

The Giants' public address announcer's husky female screechy voice though is nails on a chalkboard to me...ugh!

I've never seen a guy run as hot and cold as Soriano...we need to time his biggest hot streak for the playoffs :)

Jaque Jones for President, 4 Outstanding Catches in the Outfield covering a Lot of ground. Also he has stopp hitting those slow rollers in the infield. Pretty soon they will be home-runs becaus... Wait a Minute . It COuld Be It May Be an Alfonso Soriano repeat in same game A Home run 1 man on not counting earlier in this game he hit a home run with 2 men on total =5RBI's in 1 game for Fonzie ......

Cards up 4-2 over Brewers.

Make that 5-2.

Go Cards!

First place by August 1st!!!

Cards getting it done vs Brewers in their second game too. Man what a day. It'll be August in a week, and August isn't too early to be scoreboard-watching, is it?

GO CARDS!!! Cubs pull within 1 1/2 if the Cards can finish this one off. KICK ASS!!!!

I'll tell u what, I'm not gonna cheer for the Brewers at all, but, damn, thank God it's the Brewers we're up against this year because I absolutely LOVE listening to Uecker do play-by-play. He's nails.

That said, go Cards.

i for one hope the cubs have a 7 run cushion each time dempster pitches for the rest of the year. anything less will have me reaching for the maalox.

Dempster was just a little rusty after not pitching for a few days, he will be fine with regular work. As much as we'd all like to see it I doubt Marmol closes this year, plus he's too valuable doing what he is doing now.

Cubs and Orioles look like their having serious negotions about Jay Payton:

The deal would be for 2 "mid-level" prospects and the interesting thing is Payton is owed 5 million next year. So I guess Hendry can add payroll for 08.

Payton would be ok as an extra part down the stretch, only a month more until rosters expand anyway.

Cubs only 1.5 games back.

Brewers lose a dH'er!!! Yepper, we are looking mighty-fine!!! I thought I had a bad feeling about this weekend, but I'm thinking it was an aberation!

Jay Payton?


Woot! We're even in the loss column!

BTW, went to a bar to watch the game and Soriano's first homer was a BOMB!

DBacks 58-48
Brewers 57-48
Cubs 54-48

All we need to do is play more games ... and not lose! =)

"Jay Payton?



Russ Branyon is now available. Intrest?

branyon's already used up his 1 good week per year of use.

bats lefty anyway...another one of those weirdo RH-fielders who hits exclusively lefty at the plate.

to me...the payton thing only makes sense in the context of the earlier rumor which had jones/payton and their overhead contracts changing places.

then again, im still looking for some to explain exactly what houston wants with wiggy. what TB wants with d.wheeler i can definately understand, but the flipside i dont get unless they plan on trading him to the yankees.

wiggy is getting flipped and i thought branyon was right handed. my bad. no interest any more.

Matchups thru Th:

Su: Zambrano v. Belisle

Mo: Hamels v. Lilly (!)
Tu: Eaton v. Marquis
We: Moyer v. Hill
Th: Durbin v. Marshall

MINIMUM 3 out of 5 needed in this stretch. In Chicago and not doing anything Monday, I think I'm gonna try to get a ticket.

WPZ? I thought you were ZHL.

Oh excellent, I'm going to get to watch Moyer. It's going to be hard rooting against him:-( Hopefully we win in a 1 to 0 ball game.

Z's Cy Young chances just got better. Chris Young is going to the DL.

Matt Murton Late Scratch; Payton Talks Itensify
UPDATE: While perhaps shopping Murton, the Cubs have had significant talks regarding Baltimore's Jay Payton. The Cubs would send over two mid-level prospects; does Murton fit that criteria? Payton will make $5MM next year to finish his contract.

Matt Murton was a late scratch for tonight's Cubs-Reds game. Does it mean anything? We should know soon enough. This time of year, every scratch or unexpected mid-game substitution is magnified.

The Cubs have been talking to the Rangers about lefty reliever Ron Mahay and catcher Gerald Laird, so maybe there's a connection. The Rangers could definitely find room for Murton in their outfield.

Take it with a grain of salt, but a Cubs source of mine confirms Felix Pie's availability (huh?) and says the Cubs made an inquiry on Torii Hunter. While intriguing, I wouldn't expect either player to be traded.

Here is the link on Chris Young.

The Cubs would send over two mid-level prospects; does Murton fit that criteria?

I wouldn't think that Murton would be considered a "mid-level prospect."

Heh, my comp does weird crap. Don't mean to change names every day.

Off topic: Anyone know of a rooftop that does individual ticket sales? I'm mostly just seeing group rates.

Murton is a mid level major league player...don't know if he qualifies as a 'prospect' any more but Texas would seem like a pretty good fit.

If we get ride of Pie I think we should get an everday quality player in return. If I could pick anyone I would take Adam Dunn to play right, but Hunter would be awesome also.

Jay Payton? WHY? He is FAR removed from his prime.

He's on pace for 7 homers, 7 steals, 63 RBI, a .270 avg and a .315 OBP.

cause jay payton and miguel tejada are coming to town

Jay Effing Payton?

Are we kidding here?
Career #'s are .283/.328/.435.
He hit 28 HR's one Colorado.
He's 34, and is hitting .270/.312/.385.

Seriously, how does this improve the Cubs?

Payton, Tejada and roids.

I'd rather have Markakis

I'd rather have Corey Patterson, Freddie Bynum and the ghost of Cal Ripken Sr.

2nd and 3rd hand info floating around.

Griffey and Arroyo to the Cubs for Murton, Pie, and maybe Rich Hill...per ESPN radio. Deal wont happen till maybe tomorrow.

So ya....dont shoot the messenger just throwing out info...anyone else catch it to confirm it?

Griffey and Arroyo would be nice, but that's too much to give up.


To quote many people here:

Nick Markakis aint' walking through that door.


thanks for the info, but that I assume was a cut and paste job from someone's story. If you could please provide a link at the very least and preferably short excerpts or just summarize.

Thank you.

What? That would be so, so horrible if Hill is includes. So horrible. Oh god would that be a bad trade.

"Seriously, how does this improve the Cubs?"

Payton has a solid line V. LHP of:


So as a platoon CF and late inning defensive replacement in RF he is an improvement over Pagan.

included. The stupidity of that trade is causing spelling issues.

regarding JAY PAYTON,

as mediocre as his career numbers may be, they are also terribly inflated by the 204 games he played for Colorado.

im so ready for trade rumor season to be over.

let the sportswriters vacation where they can throw around the words "might" "maybe" "perhaps" "could" etc. like they're paid by the...ahem...educated guess.

too bad this month has 31 days...

Speaking of Corey, he's raised his average 34 points in the month of July and has an 882 OPS with four homers. Add in his 10 steals and his glove in center and you've got a nice ball player there. In all honesty, I'd take Corey over Jones even with Jacque's recent uptick in productivity. You know Cor-Cor would have been in easily on Fontenot's base knock last night.

Confusing night...What do the Astros want with Ty Wiggington? And if the rumors are true, what do the Cubs want with Jay Payton? Can Chad be right about Tejada and Payton coming to town? It's hard to believe that Angelos would let this happen.. Maybe MacPhail really is pulling the strings in Baltimore.

I like the idea of Griffey and Arroyo. I also like the three team trade mentioned earlier than would net the Cubs Saltalamacchia and Mahay. I guess it's just a matter of time before things clear up.

Payton juiced when he played for the Rockies.

I meant 10 steals in July; he's got 24 for the year.

Ensberg probably getting moved, hence the Wigginton trade...

Griffey/Arroyo would be great (duh!), Arroyo is signed for a few years, be pretty disappointed if Rich Hill is involved though.

I'm calling schienagans on that rumor. I cant see us taking on Griffey's and Arroyo's salaries, unless we unload Marquis or Jaqcquestrap on them. Also I am listening to ESPN radio right now and there talking about the football Giants. If they were reporting this blockbuster it would make for better discussion than if Eli Manning can become serviceable or if Strahan is retiring.

In all honesty, I’d take Corey over Jones even with Jacque’s recent uptick in productivity.

Hmmm... no thanks.

If they were reporting this blockbuster it would make for better discussion than if Eli Manning can become serviceable or if Strahan is retiring.

What are they supposed to talk about? It is all rumors. Not much of a story ... yet.

And MikeC isn't one to make up a rumor.

and I agree, shenanigans....

jay payton's only real advantage you can count on is he can play all 3 OF slots well with a decent "average at worst" arm...aka, he's a right handed jones.

given this would be a commitment to 08, too...hell, i'd rather have jones even if payton's arm is more accurate.

unless jones' shoulder is about to go or his lack of power is looking to be a perm thing cuz of an adjustment he's making for his shoulder jones has way more of a power upside.

nah MikeC isn't, but he said he didn't hear it himself.

don't see anything over at NSBB and they usually pick up that stuff right away.

The Cubs are talking about Payton only because they'd rather have the second worst $5 million outfielder than the worst.

Jones puts up better offensive numbers than Payton but Payton is probably better at the simple things like throwing a baseball and running around third. Plus, Payton works better as a platoon partner with Pie.

But they would be counting the days until his contract ended, just as with Jones, and they know it.

The Griffey/Arroyo for Hill/Pie/Murton trade would be risky but I think I'd do it. Hill and Arroyo are about even and Griffey would be a good upgrade in right. The big gamble would be what Pie's career turns out to be.

ESPN radio just had an update and no mention of it, could have been a Levine report and not a national one, but I have checked all over the net and didnt see anything.

#96 sweet lou

your post should end with all these questions on the next episode of Soap!


thanks for the info, but that I assume was a cut and paste job from someone’s story. If you could please provide a link at the very least and preferably short excerpts or just summarize.

Thank you."

It's not info, it's cut-n-pasted from the holiest of holies in the realm of rumors...mlbtraderumors

anyone that could get the reds to give up arroyo would pull a nice coup. arroyo makes like 10-ish million a year through 2010 with a 11m option for 11. its considered a pretty nice contract for the reds.

still...that trade would add 20+m to next year's payroll.

cubs do have "too many" lefty starters who seem to be here to stay, but i dunno about all this hendry suddenly deciding pie is expendable.

I thought maybe SadCubFan was the guy from mlbtraderumors.

Pie and Murton for a 36 year old Ken Griffey Jr is just not good. I like Griffey a lot and wish he had had better luck. I wish he was the one breaking the HR record. But he's Ken Griffey Jr, 36 and flawed.

If we were getting him low risk, then fine, but trading up two young, good players for a big injury risk who's career will be over soon...I just don't like it.

And I say it that way because I think Hill and Arroyo are a pretty even trade by themselves.

i don't think murton and pie for griffey. one or the other. i hope its murton.

Pie is expendable because with the combination of his bad glove at 2b and the emergence of Fontenot, Epat's MLB future is in the OF most likely in CF. Pie could get any player Jimbo wants and if that Cincy deal happens, I am guessing they will pay some salary or take on one of are bad contracts.

I definitely take exception to calling Murton a young 'good' player...he surely is probably a 4th or 5th outfielder in the majors but I don't think he hits for enough power or is good enough defensively to be an everyday player. Right now Angel Pagan is a way better player than Matt Murton.

Pie could go either way. He could be a multi-time all star or he could flame out. It seems the leauge figured him out pretty well the first time around but there is still plenty of potential there.

The Reds probably won't trade Griffey just to let the fans see him get 600 HR's as a Red.

Also I think Epat will have a better career than Pie.

Tejada, you're wording in your last post was very strange. I'm not trying to grade your grammar but i had to read it three times to understnad what you meant.

I don't think the Reds would keep Griffey around just so he could hit his 600th HR as a Red. The 600th HR isn't cause for a huge celebration. I don't think they would pass up the opportunity to trade him (if they actually do want to trade him) just because he is closing in on #600.

Griffey and Tejada could both be traded through waivers.

I see Murton as a 6th outfielder in the major leagues. Seriously though, I wonder if he and a Gallagher level pitching prospect could pry Wood away from the Angels. The Angels need some pitching depth and they also need a left fielder to replace the useles Anderson.

Kajerkin on ESPN mentioned the Cubs/Orioles Jay Payton trade. If we just trade for Jay Payton, it makes no sense. I mean it's not an upgrade.

payton's a decent contact hitter with a touch of power who can field all 3 OF slots...not gonna walk, not gonna K much...lotta stuff put into play. not very exciting...

thing is he's not gonna settle for being a part-time player without turning into a bitch. also dont think baltimore would trade him away to a place where he'd be a part-time player.

the only way payton trade makes sense to me is if jones is involved.

i don't mind payton on our team. i'm just saying that if that is our big deadline move, color me unimpressed.

im not expecting a big deadline move, myself...dont think the team really needs anything other than a "real" RF'r. stuff like finding a swap for JJ or potential trade-offs of excess lefty starting could be big trades, but im not counting on those.

some seem to want more pen, but after what linebrink went for i cant even imagine what gange's market is...if k.wood can pull his weight with dumpster/howry/marmol it shouldnt be a bad gamble to press onward with.

when the only prayer for significantly improving your catcher is trying to get salty from atlanta that's a hard prayer to answer. it looks like an all-or-nothing for salty or continued patch jobs (blanco, you're next...step on up).

SS seems to be solidly theriot/cedeno territory for'd be a 300 post TCR thread about whether it'd be worth it to have a guy like vizquel there via trade instead with theriot returned to "ryan freel" status. even if that did go down it'd be a neat luxury, but i dont see it happening anymore than an all-or-nothing for salty.

Hendry's a fine one for surprises. If he does deal, it could well be for someone who isn't even on our radar screen.

sure pie has talent but can he ever figure out how to hit a curve ball?

I am just unimpressed with his batting, i just dont see him translating to the majors at this point. Sure he is young, maybe he will figure it out. Murton will probably end up being a better major league player than Pie when their careers are done.

If you can flip Murton and Pie for Griffey you do it. If it takes Hill also....ehhhh you think twice. But i still probably do that deal with Arroyo in return.

I doubt the Cubs would trade Pie for Griffey even up.

At this point, though, Jones isn't going anywhere unless he brings back a big time center fielder or right fielder - which isn't a realistic scenario. If we had a healthy Guzman I could see Marhsall/Guzman/Marmol going to return a big fish, but we don't have that type of pitching depth right now and no 'sure fire' thins in the minors to entice another team who's got a really big bat.

Murton & Gallagher would be a fine return from Cincy for Grifey.

Soto's leading the PCL in OPS... Why isn't he our catcher again?

Soto's not playing because most managers dislike rookie catchers in pennant races.

BTW... Derrek Lee has 4 home runs in his last 8 games, putting him on pace to hit about 30 home runs in the second half! :)

Soto hit his 16th last night in 150 fewer at bats than EPat has had. Soto with about 250 ABs.

So with 500 AB, Soto projects to a 30-HR season with 130 strikeouts.

I don't see the Reds trading Griffey. They want to trade Stanton, Dunn, Lohse and possibly Weathers.

As far as the trade goes, I'd say Arroyo's post season experience with Boston would make him a little more valuable than Hill down the stretch. Murton and Pie to get Griffey would make us immediately better. To get us to the post season and have a realistic shot at winning, we need another slugger. So, yes, I'd make that deal and no the Reds probably wouldn't.

"I don’t see the Reds trading Griffey. They want to trade Stanton, Dunn, Lohse and possibly Weathers."

I agree. The only thing that is going to sell tickets in cinci the rest of the year is Griffey and a HR milestone.

AAA heroes...they can hit a fastball. throw em a parade.

has pie/cedeno showed us nothing this year?

soto is a power hitting catcher...unfortunately he's barely a catcher...then again so is bowen/barrett and if it wasnt for kendall's ease with recieving and a pitching staff he'd be there, too.

blanco/kendall is gonna be a hard duo for soto to fight this year...see ya in sept. soto...see ya next spring.

the unfortunate thing for soto is he probably wont get a chance to showcase what he truely has until next year unless injury happens.

btw...soto WAS a more capable catcher before his arm injury which has impacted his worth.

before the injury he was one of the better cubs catchers.

he WAS a 3rd baseman because of his of the things that eased his transition to catcher.

he's still an interesting guy. still a cog in the minor league machine that's important and noteworthy.

Thanks for the info. I thought they hit the ball off a tee in PCL. So the pitchers actually pitch off a mound. They're just not allowed to throw breaking balls.

oh, theyre allowed to throw them.

if only they could stick around to throw ones worth cuz once they do start locating them they're not in AAA very long.

a tee? who pee'd in your sandbox. i just brought up a valid point...wanna have a dubois conversation or something? soto's power translates better than his avg/ob%.

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