Game 104 Thread / Phillies @ Cubs (1 of 4)

Game Chat Cole Hamels vs. Ted Lilly Lineups:
Victorino RF Soriano LF
Iguchi 2B Theriot SS
Rollins SS Lee 1B
Howard 1B Ramirez 3B
Rowand CF DeRosa 2B
Burrell LF Murton RF
Helms 3B Pagan CF
Ruiz C Kendall C
Hamels P Lilly P
Cubnut addendum... New Phillie: Former Cub farmhand Kyle Lohse, acquired today by the Phils from Cincinnati in exchange for minor league lefthander Matt Maloney. Lohse is just 6-12, 4.58 this season, but he threw what was arguably his best game of the season and one of the finest in his career back on April 15th against the Cubs. Lohse tossed eight innings of four-hit, shutout ball with 12 strikeouts in a game the Reds would win 1-0, though Lilly, Wuertz, and Dempster combined to two-hit the visitors. The memory of how Lohse dominated the Cubs that day gives me the willies, so, speaking for myself, I'd just as soon see the guy make his Philadelphia debut against somebody else.
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Comments

alex ciepley?

can derek smart be far behind?

p.s. what a dreadful lineup.

The line up:

Sori
Riot
Dlee
Aram
Dero
Murt
Pagan
Kendull

If Murt is scratched again today I think its because Hamels faviorite TV character is Cartman and will drill him in the head if he faces him because he shares Eric's hatred for gingers.

Just took a look at the lineup and almost retched--how could Lou possibly throw this garbage out there?!

chifan - Is that the actual lineup, or is that just your prediction? If actual, where did you get it from?

Ruz is posting threads, Alex C is posting threads, The Cubs are winning...

Did someone turn the clock back to about 2003?

John Hill will be showing up any minute.

BB lol, I remember the good old days...

What the heck is Soloman at the Trib doing by not including TCR as one of the Cub blogs if not THE Cub blog. He must take very seriously the not so favorable comments dished out here towards him. And wouldn't it be wunnerful if Sorry could get rid of his major ego problem and, instead of sulking like a spoiled brat when he isn't the effing first one up, bat 5th or whatever just not 1st? He's great to have but deserves a decent bitch slapping! A tip o'the mug and high expectations for Mr. Lilly tonight.

Recently updated by Sully....

General manager Jim Hendry put an end to speculation that the Cubs would deal their top prospect, telling reporters before Monday's game against Philadelphia that he has no intention of dealing Pie.

"Felix Pie has never been talked about," Hendry said. "He's not going anywhere in any deal. There will be no trade of Felix Pie to anyone."

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com...

Also in that article, Hendry actually predicts that W's appearance in AA on Tuesday will be his last, and he'll be on the Cubs roster on Wednesday or Thursday... I think he just jinxed it...

Rosenthal & KC Star says Braves really close with KC for a Dotel for Kyle Davies swap.

http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/211348.html

Have a day, Braves.

JACE: I love it. He probably jinxed it just by being there!

BTW, the bullpen is "not that bad". Really. ;-)

It's fishy if you ask me...Phil Rodgers starts the Pie rumors and Sullivan squashes em, are they take turns playing good cop bad cop games?

As turnabout, Sully starts a Colvin for Gagne rumor tomorrow. Rogers will squash that one. That way they both churn out a column.

Hendry said Pie is going no where...

"Felix Pie has never been talked about," Hendry said. "He's not going anywhere in any deal. There will be no trade of Felix Pie to anyone."

Jace,

Its the real one and I heard it ESPN 1000.

"Did someone turn the clock back to about 2003?"

Someone kidnap Bartman and keep him captive until 11/2. We dont everything to be the same.

great, well at least it looks like we'll finally see Murton in the lineup... Of course, he's probably no longer in whatever groove he was in when he came up 4 days ago.... In order for him to play much of a role on this team, he needs to CRUSH the ball tonight.

Would John Schuerholz trade Felix Pie right now?

Wow, thanks, MikeC. Where do you get your information? I also heard that the Cubs have offered a 3-yr, $44 M deal to ..... you know the rest...

chifan3887 is now officially in the FBI database.

...if you thought the Braves were done; think again. It looks like they are talking to the Reds about Arroyo. Yahoo's Tim Brown is the source...

Would John Schuerholz trade Felix Pie right now?

Well.. Schuerholz has traded what many think are his top three prospects today.

And Alex? Seriously?

What is going on around here?

So, Brenly was on ESPN 1000, and he doesn't think that there will be anything major done between now and the deadline for the Cubs.

Did Ted Turner buy back the Braves?

Now the Braves are in on Arroyo.

Are we sure that somebody doesn't have Schuerholz tied up in a closet somewhere?

You know I am trying to stay calm here. I went apeshit crazy as the clock turned 12:01 on the eve of free agency wanting to know why the hell Hendry hadn't signed ARam. Then lo and behold, viola!

But I'm getting pretty antsy.

I've heard nothing about Payton either. Is that rumour dead?

Seems to be, mark. The story yesterday was that Cubs interest had waned considerably. Did hear the Mets named bantered about n the Payton talks.

I heard the Mets and Payton mentioned together too. Seems silly unless Moises isn't quite 100 percent or they are dealing Lastings. Personally I think Payton / Jock is a wash.

If the Braves get arroyo and dotel, they are going to be quite dangerous I think.

mark — July 30, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
I’ve heard nothing about Payton either. Is that rumour dead?

========================

MARK Just in terms of the most-recent rumor stated by somebody, it was Peter Gammons on ESPN Baseball Tonight last evening mentioning switch-hitting OF Bobby Kielty in connection with the Cubs.

And since the A's DFA'd Kielty last Monday, if they don't trade by him by 1 PM (CDT) tomorrow, they HAVE to place him on $1 Release Waivers. So Kielty will almost certainly positively be traded sometime between now and the trading deadline tomorrow afternoon, and I guess the Cubs would be a logical destination.

Anyone have any predictions on how Murton does tonight?
I say he goes 2 for 4, and Lou epoxies his ass to the bench anyway....

Thanks AZ Phil. Would be interested in your view of Kielty and what he adds.

Think Murt has at leat one walk, at least one flyout and one hit tonight. Wanna put a pint on it Jace?

In a statement that's sure to make Chad happy, ESPN is suggesting that the Dye-to-Red Sox trade might be dead. Apparently the ChiSox rejected what the Red Sox thought was an aggressive offer.

Do we want Jermaine Dye? (in best Kyle voice) Really?

mark — July 30, 2007 @ 4:40 pm

Thanks AZ Phil. Would be interested in your view of Kielty and what he adds.

=========================

MARK: Kielty is a switch-hitter who hits much better right-handed (versus LHP). He has a RF arm, so he can play either corner OF spot. He had knee surgery in ST and never got going at the plate, which is why the A's dumped him last week.

Peter Gammons had Kielty going to the Red Sox last Wednesday, but the deal fell through (supposedly) when the Red Sox were unable to trade Wily Mo Pena. So Gammons may have some legitimate inside info on this.

Sure, mark, though I am not sure that your prediction is all that different from mine... What are we betting?

Jermaine Dye from 2005 would be nice. Jermaine Dye 2007 version doesn't improve the team significantly. I would be happy with Floyd, Pagan and Jones out there. Who knows maybe Murt can do a job there now too.

That news made me happy this morning when it actually broke.

Screw you guys, I'm outta here.

A pint of warm English beer says Murt goes no better than 1 for tonight.

mark? Dye doesn't improve the team significantly? how about the fact that the moment he would put on a cub uni, he'd be leading the team in home runs. That's not a big shot in the arm?? That's a tremendous improvement.

You might be right Chad and I'd love to see it work.

How are the Cubs supposed to win with that pathetic line up?!

What a disaster. Fricken Ted Lilly takes the hill. Great.

They'll be lucky to keep it within 9 runs. What a joke.

Don't jump on me for raising this. Was just something I was wondering. Would Wil MoPena work for the Cubs? He has showed that with regular playing time (for the Reds), he can hit for tremendous power. Naturally he is more of a DH type but if he finds his stroke, pitchers won't like to pitch to him.

Hey Wes,

Looks like the Braves are goung for the gusto. It was not enought they traded for Mark Tex, Mahay & now they are about to trade for Reds P Arroyo. What is Jim Henry doing? Did Jim get a job offer for next year and don't care we get a power bat (Jermaine Dye or Griffey) if White sox don't move Dye today Jim will have the leverage because Kenny already knows he can't get teams to give up a veteran player and a #1 top prospect. I say Jim go for the trade for Jermaine Dye.

Once the emaciated-looking ex-phenom who is currently rehabbing in the minors is called up, it looks to me like there will be a bit of a log-jam of righties in the bullpen. With Howry apparently needing lots of work to stay sharp, I wonder if he or Wuertz is gone before the deadline.

Is there a team out there willing to trade quality for quantity? If so, what does a package of Murton/Wuertz/Gallagher net the Cubs? The other side would get 2 guys with some experience and success at the ML level who could step in to roles immediately, and one guy who may develop.

Just wondering.

Jackstraw... I would think that the Cherry/Petrick shuttle from Iowa would stop, and both would stay in AAA.

W will be back for the Mets series unless he lays an egg - rehab-wise (according to JH)

Can anyone tell us what the injury delay is I see on gameday? Thanks.

if nothing else, the Cubs are sending the entire Phillies outfield to the DL...ugh. I can't believe Bourne is still in there.

Chermo, Bourne tripped over the Phillies bullpen mound in right going for a foul pop. Took a nasty spill, 5 minute delay. He at least hyperextended something...but he's staying in the game, probably because the Phils have no other outfielders on the bench (Bourne replaced Victorino when he pulled up lame in the 3rd or 4th)

Andy - thanks for the update. Too bad it wasn't worse...

Also too bad Lilly seemed to have forgotten how to throw strikes tonight. Guess he had to hit a hitch in his streak at some point, just hated to see it be tonight when Hamels was so good.

Get 'em tomorrow, boys. sigh.

Not much you can do against Hamels when he's dealing like that. Can't win 'em all.

somewhere white sox fans are finding joy in this one

Noticed that Kendall didn't make any attempts at base stealers. While he may be showing that he knows his limits and wants to prevent potential errors he also isn't catching base stealers.

Which do you prefer to see out of your catcher, no errors at the cost of some stolen bases or the reverse: potentially stopping some SB's and keeping the runners close at the cost of the occasional error? Is the real answer somewhere in between?

Jimmy Rollins is a fucking BEAST. He has terrific plate discipline and knows how to get on - but the leftys we have are s l o w to h o m e.

Which doesn't help matters.

He has terrific plate discipline and knows how to get on

Not really...

He has a career obp of .330 and averages only 53 walks a year.

I am not saying he isn't good (he is), but he is not good because of his plate discipline and ability to get on base.

I blame this on Murton.

Anyone read 'Crazy '08', the book about the 1908 Cubs? I bought it a month ago and I've tried, and tried, and tried to get into it but I just can't. I always loved Halberstam's baseball books, (Summer of '49 and October 1964), but this one is just so slow. I'm about 100 pages into it and I just can't read it any more.

To clarify - Crazy '08 isn't by Halberstam, but when I bought it I kind of thought that's the type of read it would be. It isn't, so maybe my expectations were off.

"Not really…
He has a career obp of .330 and averages only 53 walks a year."

Well, I suppose he certainly could improve his BB to K ratio, but here are the current stats of some "name" lead-off hitters - you tell me who are the most productive ones:

ROLLINS
PA R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB K BA OBP
461 90 136 24 14 20 64 18 5 27 55 .295 .339

Dave Roberts
252 40 66 7 5 2 16 21 3 25 46 .262 .329

JOSE REYES
434 75 131 24 10 7 41 52 53 .302 .376

J. Damon
340 60 84 16 1 5 38 19 2 52 52 .247 .347

Lofton
327 62 100 16 3 7 24 21 4 39 30 .306 .380

D. Eckstein
247 33 75 11 0 2 15 3 0 11 12 .304 .347

W. Taveres
312 55 97 11 1 2 22 26 8 18 47 .311 .359

what the hell is wrong with you people?

theriot hits a homer and there's not 2000 posts about it?

WHAT THE HELL?

heheh...guess its not 2006 anymore.

FONTEGOD FONTEGOD FONTEGOD!!!

who's the next hot cubs fan singles-hitter obsession dujour? hell, its felix pie if he doesnt get his stroke ;p

what a hard/cruddy game to watch, btw...so void of anything considered a solid performance except for theriot.

guess rocky cherry had a good day, too...kinda...nothing special.

I will wax poetic about Theriot Crunch. I love the man at SS with his very good defense, ability to get on base and speed. I think he's perfect in the 2 spot and a better version of Eckstein.

Anyone want to guess what trades go down tommrrow. I think we will be involved in 2:

1. Kielty for Fuld
2. Dye and Thornton for Cedeno, Wuertz, and Piggy

I like # 2, Then we call up kid K

"2. Dye and Thornton for Cedeno, Wuertz, and Piggy:

To quote the modern day bards, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, "Wrap it up, I'll take it"

I like Wuertz but he is the 4th righty out of the pen and with Woody coming back and guys like Cherry and Petrick waiting in the wings...

im a theriot fan...hard not to be. i just dont really expect too much from him except in a few areas. even if he takes a slight downturn in production as long as he keeps his brains/speed in decent shape his ability to play 2nd/SS/3rd/etc. makes him worth having alone.

theriot full time at SS? hell, i was hoping he'd be the team's everyday 2nd til derosa was signed and he's shown that at worst he's average and/or good enough to play SS everyday. the consensus seems to be ranking him average to OMFG HELL YEAH...but no one worth listening to (heh) is ranking him in the "below average" area.

still...how impressive is it once he's putting up .280/.350 10hr 30 doubles in 2009? well, damn impressive since he's playing SS, but hey...its in that "mark loretta" area for me...dont hurt and you know what youre getting outta it.

Chifan- that's a lot of outfielders.

I don't think Kielty offers enough of anything to warrant trading for him, not to mention if Hendry wanted him he could have expanded the Kendal deal.

The minute that Dye gets traded to the Cubs he will be tied for last on the team with 0 HR's.

You are a clever guy, Neal.

White Sox 14th in AL in Runs Scored
14th in AL in OBP
7th in AL in HR

Cubs
8th in NL in Runs (7th in RPG if you want to get techincal)
9th in OBP
12th in HR's

With both teams runs scoring is more closely linked to OBP than HR's, yet the way to fix the Cubs offense is to bring in a guy with a .295 OBP because he has 19 HR's? I don't buy it, Dye bats 5th for the Sux (Behind .432 OBP Thome and .358 Konerko) and they don't score alot of runs. How does batting him fifth behind Lee (.418) and Ramirez (.361) jumpstart the offense?

The White Sox 5th hitters: 53 RBI's. The Cub, 51 RBI's. Dye has been particularly putrid batting 5th (really good batting fourth) so in - the Soriano must bat leadoff - 'sense' the Cubs would need to drop Ramirez to 5th if they trade for Dye.

Dye is a step in the wrong direction for the organization.

All that being said, what about Dye and Vasquez and $$ for Marshall and Murton? It would probably hurt our offense a bit, but help our defense and get out of the 3 lefties issue. It would also give us some insurance if Zambrano can't be resigned.

Los Angeles Dodgers

3rd in OBP
6th in runs
10 in SLG

Marlins

5th in OBP
2nd in runs
2 in SLG

Hmmm maybe slugging helps score runs too. Wow, if there was only a Saberfriendly sat that combined the two. That would be a dream come true.

So with Dye, slugging goes up. As would our runs. High OPB low slugging won't get you anywhere. Low OPB high slugging, not so much. But good obp and good slugging, will do great.

1. the cubs stand a better chance against a rotation of penny, oswalt, peavy, smoltz, and carpenter than they do against any 5 left-handers over the age of 21. maybe moyer will only 4-hit them on wednesday.

2. i swear i heard harry caray's voice announcing cedno's results on his 1-pitch pinch hit at bat:
"POPPPPPPPPPPED IT UP."

3. alfonso soriano, chip in any time. if aram is our clutch player, soriano looks like the "anti-clutch".

4. would rather see howry exit in a trade than wuertz. no specific reason; just a hunch.

5. hope hendry is not content with his line-up, and is laying down a heavy smokescreen of " i don't expect the cubs to make any big splashes before the deadline". especially with the phillies, braves, and mets all making changes.

So with Dye, slugging goes up. As would our runs. High OPB low slugging won’t get you anywhere. Low OPB high slugging, not so much. But good obp and good slugging, will do great.

Chad - your first sentence is accurate. Your last sentence is accurate. But adding Dye (just going on this season's numbers) hurts our OBP - so the last sentence is moot. Adding slugging at the expense of OBP and 'clutch hitting' isn't going to make your offense score more runs. It is going to make it score fewer runs.

Sure we can say that 'Dye has been hot and he's going to carry that through the season' but we can just as easily say 'Floyd is going to return to his HR hitting form' or 'Murton is going to reach his career averages by the end of the season'.

In my opinion, the best thing that could happen to the Cubs offense, barring a trade for Tejada, Hunter of Griffey is that Floyd tears a hamstring and Piniella lets Murton play.

Murton's Career OPS for August, .830 for September/October, .949

THe bulpen is doing a decent job right now, so whats the rush to get KW up, couldnt we just wait until rosters expand?

More reflection on my own earlier post about the makeup of the 'pen once they add the rehabbing guy is a 'pen of

Dempster
Marmol
Wuertz
Howry
Rehab guy
Ohman
Eyre

Has no long reliever/lost cause guy.

I still think one of Wuertz/Howry goes today.

From mlbtreaderumors.com

Jon Heyman says the Red Sox are one of just four teams covered in Dye's no-trade provision. Dye wants to stay in Chicago if he can.

Does that mean Southside?

Real Neal,

We need a RH to pinch hit. I dont want to see Cedeno come up again in a cruical RBI PH chance. At this point in their careers Kielty is better suited for this than Murton.

To me this deal
2. Dye and Thornton for Cedeno, Wuertz, and Piggy:

looks WAY better than this
Dye and Vasquez and $$ for Marshall and Murton

will all the outfield casualties, would the phillies be interested in jones? or pagan? or murton?

and, in exchange for what?

Why would Howry or Weurtz have to be gone to add W? Why not just release Eyre? And don't give me the old "gotta have 2 lefties" excuse. Eyre isn't being used. It is better to have a good (assuming W is good) righty than a lefty who has been struggling this year. Just ask the Padres.

I enjoy the idea of trading someone from the bullpen because they may be getting that new kid from Peoria. Yeah, what could go wrong in two months with him? it's not like he could get hurt or anything.

here are the current stats of some “name” lead-off hitters - you tell me who are the most productive ones:

E-man... I never said Rollins was not productive, did I? I actually specifically said that he was good. But he is not good due to "terrific plate discipline." He simply does not have great plate discipline.

He does a lot of other things well though.

FYI: The lunatics at mlbtraderumors with another Pie update:

UPDATE: A source of mine says that despite Hendry's claims to the contrary, Pie was dangled. Since no deal could be reached, it makes sense to say publicly that he was never available. The source adds that Hendry continues to search for a bat this morning.

Yeah chifan, that AB by Cedeno did not inspire confidence. Hamels had been throwing tons of no-strike pitches and Cedeno swings at the first pitch for a lazy pop-up.

As Harry would have said, "that wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth."

IowaCub-

I really enjoyed Crazy 08 I felt like I was transported to 1908 watching baseball.

Great book.

One of Lou cryptic complaints came out after the game, when asked about improvements to the team he said something like "you see what we need" and I took that as right handed bat.

Cole Hamels had it going last night.

As Sammy once said " You have to take off your hat and hand it to him."

I am a big Ronny Cedeno fan.
I also called that last night...I looked over at my wife and said "Well...Hamels has walked 2 in a row...Cedeno will swing at the first pitch."
He did..and I then threw the remote across the room.

That is not good baseball....just plain stupid.

Fortunately it was just one game. Hamels is probably the best Lefty in the NL. We won't see him the rest of the year (playoffs?). Hopefully the cubs can rally against the rest of the Philly rotation. Which is subpar as a group. And at least salvage a split.
And as far as Lou complaining about needing a RH bat. It seems bogus to me for him to complain about a guy being sharp. When he never gets into the lineup to stay sharp. Neither Murton nor Cedeno have seen the light of day since their respectve recalls. Now Lou wants to hang them out to the press when they aren't sharp? Kinda a dick move if you ask me.

"That is not good baseball….just plain stupid."

But throwing the remote across the room because of a popup, this is what intelligence looks like!

Apparently Al Reyes for Jeff Clement is being disscussed:

http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/31/trade-deadli...

Man if Seattle is willing to do that deal maybe Hendry should offer Wuertz for Clement.

NO-
Hey ass...really great comeback.
Seriously.
Your rapier like wit should be immortalized for the ages.
A figure of speech...like " I will now light myself on fire," or "excuse me while I puke that up."

I will find a phrase that is less difficult to understand to use in order to get across my frustration at the silly play of Ronny Cedeno.

I think ideally Lou would want a right handed bat off of the bench that he would not have to keep fresh by starting frequently (like Ward was from the left). Murton and Cedeno have not played the last few games, but before that they were playing for 3 months straight. So how viable of a pinch hitting option can either be if a couple days off makes them cold and ineffective?

Howry for Clement?

So how viable of a pinch hitting option can either be if a couple days off makes them cold and ineffective?

Murton has had 4 at-bats (5 plate appearances).

Cedeno has had 7 at-bats.

And we are supposed to be able to tell a lot about these two in a total of 11 at-bats?

You have to be kidding me.

Hendry still looking for a bat, eh? Well, Jim, make it happen.

Also, seems as though the Brewers are jumping in on the Gagne sweepstakes.

dave - while i agree with you that that is not enough time to be able to evaluate these two, I am afraid that they're not going to get much more than that. Cedeno's at-bat last night had to make Lou crazy. Murton was not particularly impressive, either. I would guess that these are going to be sitting for another few days...

I would guess that these are going to be sitting for another few days…

I would bet that Murton starts again tonight against another lhp.

nohit, my own source says that Devin Hester is coming over to play center field for a few weeks while Pie bakes a bit longer.

"my source." You gotta love it.

tomorrow...Adam Eaton's a righty.

Pagan has four homers this year, all right-handed. So does that make him a good option in center or right when a lefty is pitching?

No, because he's a .246 hitter right-handed (this year) with a .282 OBP. Last year he was 196/292. Combined he's 223/287.

If you bat him lefty he's 306/359 but with no home runs.

Look at his minor-league numbers and you understand why the Mets sold him. His last year in AAA he was 271/333/395 with 8 HR.

If Pagan could run to where a fly ball was going to come down, I would say he was toolsy and should be given time to develop. But I don't know if ballhawking is something you can learn. I think it's hardware, not software.

I've been down on Cedeno and Murton at various times, but you put them in AAA and they go nuts. Pagan was in Iowa early in the season and he hit .250.

tomorrow…Adam Eaton’s a righty.

Yea... my bad. I was thinking Moyer was tonight and Eaton was tomorrow. So yea - Murton will probably start tomorrow against Moyer.

Rogers is saying that we are looking at Silva from the Twins.

I know.... it's Rogers.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com...

A pox upon all "toolsy" players. How many countless millions of dollars have been wasted thus. A guy can either A) play baseball at a major league level, or B) he sucks and should find another line of work. Play or play not, there is no "toolsy."

according to Rogers, it will be

Veal
Gallagher
Colvin
Pie
Epatt
Murton
Cedeno

For
Silva

Take it with a grain of salt

That's a Ditka trade. Was Hendry weeping when he offered it?

True that Horatio, Until the cubs start fielding a track and field team. I vote that we play guys based on actual production.

Jayson Stark reports that Jonny Gomes of the Rays is available. If true, Hendry should move quickly on him and see what the Rays want in return.

So how long before Sullivan posts and says that the Silva trade rumor is complete and utter bunk?

Dave - wasn't saying whether we should or should not judge cedeno and murton on their most recent ABs, but merely responding to previous posts that seemed to insinuate that they need to play regularly to be kept effective. If one believes that that is the case then my conclusion is that they are not what we need right now when we need an effective RH pinch hitter off of the bench or to spot start against lefties.

offer Neal Cotts and Rock Cherry for Gomes. That should be more than enough.

BTW... rumor has it that the Tigers have acquired Jack Wilson. I guess their no-hit, good-glove Neif! was enough - they needed two of them!

offer Neal Cotts and Rock Cherry for Gomes. That should be more than enough.

I don't see how Tampa Bay could give Gomes away for two decent, but not great, middle relievers.

Just when it appeared that he was close to being reactivated from the DL, Henry Blanco has been shut-down indefintely with a sore shoulder. (Blanco had been on a minor league rehab assignment at Peoria).

So it looks like Koyie Hill won't be getting outrighted anytime soon.

And when Kerry Wood is reactivated from the 60-day DL later this week, either Henry Blanco or Angel Guzman can be transferred from the 15-day DL to the 60-day DL to make room on the 40-man roster for Woody.

This Jeff Clement rumor is interesting, but the Cubs should be very careful. I watched this kid break the high school home run record in Central Iowa...paid close attention to him at USC.....then got the chance to see him play 3 games last summer in Des Moines.

He doesn't have the same body he had. It looks like he was frail compared to when he was in high school-college. I wonder if the toll of pro ball is too much for him. he simply hasn't grown or filled out like you would assume a kid should.

Mike Wellman....you might have seen him a bit in high school-college-pro and seen the transformation. Did you see the same thing? It's my opinion that he's a very talented baseball player, but that his body won't hold up.

Joey

Wiscard, If the cubs can CHEAPLY pick up a RH pinch hitting solution. Then I suppose that it wouldnt hurt. I just thought it was chinsy for Lou to Hang Cedeno and Murton out to dry in the press. Ultimately it is Lou's job to keep them sharp by finding them at bats. If they were proven vets. I doubt Lou would have buried them.

Bruce Levine coming on ESPN 1000 shortly...

Toolsy, you know, like Beltran, A-Rod, or even Griffey before he started getting mail from AARP.

Proven is a key word in your post, aaronb.

Henry Blanco has been shut-down indefintely with a sore shoulder.
-------
Indefinitely seems like such a long time but when your old and a catcher, these aches and pains keep coming at you. Blanco has soreness in his non-throwing (left) shoulder which was reported about a week ago before they even started his rehab in Peoria. No workup on this is mentioned (ie. MRI) but often it's the kind of thing a cortisone shot is used for since it's not going away after a week or two. From this distance, I'll assume the diagnosis is (subacromial) bursitis. He's probably still on oral non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication for his cervical disc problem, but if not I'm sure they restarted the NSAID rx again for this shoulder issue.

Now if only Koyie Hill could have another 5 RBI game...

http://tinyurl.com/3xn9kf
from the Trib article:

Blanco said his left shoulder is hurting, and he plans to rest it a couple of days before the Cubs decide what to do next.

"I hope it's nothing serious," the catcher said. "It's coming along. It'll only be a couple days, hopefully."

chifan3887 — July 31, 2007 @ 8:15 am

Apparently Al Reyes for Jeff Clement is being disscussed:

Man if Seattle is willing to do that deal maybe Hendry should offer Wuertz for Clement.

==========================

CHIFAN: A trade for a young catcher like Jeff Clement is probably something Hendry would prefer to address during the off-season, not right now.

Even if Kerry Wood returns and pitches effectively, I just can't see the Cubs trading any of their proven MLB relievers during the stretch drive. Cherry or Petrick, maybe, but not Wuertz or Howry.

For better or worse, Jason Kendall will very likely be the Cubs #1 catcher for the rest of the season, with Koyie Hill the primary back-up (and Zambrano's personal catcher) until if and when Blanco returns. And Geovany Soto will get a September call-up to provide catching depth for the last month of the season.

"He doesn’t have the same body he had. It looks like he was frail compared to when he was in high school-college. I wonder if the toll of pro ball is too much for him. he simply hasn’t grown or filled out like you would assume a kid should."

And this point is relevant to his baseball skills how? If has play has deteriorated as he's moved up levels, then say that. If his play is still as good as ever, then what's with the beefcake? Who cares about his physique if he's raking? Is there a bodybuilding competition between innings that I didn't know about? Do baseball teams arm-wrestle for home field advantage in the playoffs now?

Murton has never been good pinch hitting. For him to hit, he needs to start every day, and I'm not sure if Lou is just setting him up to fail by ignoring that or whether Lou is an idiot and doesn't pay attention to production and numbers.

Either way, it's frustrating to watch and pretty annoying to see Lou making back-handed insults.

"For better or worse, Jason Kendall will very likely be the Cubs #1 catcher for the rest of the season"

More Cub stupidity. Even when they're playing well, they just can't help themselves.

Levine - on ESPN 1000 -

Cubs are a little concerned about their starting rotation. He doesn't think the cubs will give top prospects for Silva.

Cardinals are a team you need to watch and see if they are going to add pitching.

Milwaukee needs to add a pitcher. They cannot count on Sheets to come back healthy.

The name out there for a lot of teams is Garland - and they White Sox will trade him for 2 or 3 of a teams top prospects.

Levine - Boston still talking to Sox about Dye
Dye still might sign with Sox
Hendry won't trade Pie...
Murton and Cedeno may be done...
May be interested in Ryan Church
Carlos Silva? Possibly...
Cardinals, Brewers may add pitching

Murton and Cedeno may be done…

He didn't quite say that. He did criticize Cedeno for swinging at the first pitch though.

Cards get Joel Piniero.

Either way, it’s frustrating to watch and pretty annoying to see Lou making back-handed insults.
..........................................................................

This is more along the lines of what I was alluding to. Why bring the kid up to not play him. Murton outhit Cliff Floyd in 2005. Murton outhit Floyd last year. Murton outhit Floyd when he got regular playing time this year. But now Murton won't get the chance to do it again? LouPa is scared to sit Floyd. He is afraid he will poison the clubhouse. Lou said it himself in May on live TV if you read between the lines.

ESPN 100 - from Bruce Levine - there will be no Carlos Silva deal.

Thank you Jim Hendry!!!

Yeah, guys. It is frustrating. I think that both Cedeno and Murton will be in the majors for awhile. I just don't think they'll get much while here with the Cubs. I think both of them need to be moved...

Horatio---Do you pay my salary? Cool your jets and pay attention.

Pretty clear in my paragraphs that an observation has been made that the Clement, while a good to great baseball talent below major league levels, looks like he has lost weight--gotten skinny--can't hold up. Factor in day games at Wrigely, the more intense rigors of the bigs and it would be my opinion Clement would not be smart to look at long term.

Yeah, an opinion....which means I have at least a 50% chance of being wrong.

And yes....opposite a Benito Santiago or Pudge (hmm, note the name) Rodriguez pre-roids...most (I said most) long term receivers in the bigs have some mass to their bodies. Clement is losing his.

On the other hand, as a back up receiver in the AL where he could DH may be perfect for the kid.

Anyhoo......call me old timey, but Clement makes little sense to me for the Cubs.

But like all of you, nobody pays me for my opinion.

Joey

Bad news from Bruce Miles, friends.

“There’s nothing that’s going to happen in the next half-hour or hour, and there’s certainly nothing that’s going to blow people away like when we got Nomar,” [Hendry] said.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id...

mmmmmmmmm......anti-climax.

Jace — July 31, 2007 @ 9:36 am
Levine - Boston still talking to Sox about Dye
Dye still might sign with Sox
Hendry won’t trade Pie…
Murton and Cedeno may be done…
May be interested in Ryan Church
Carlos Silva? Possibly…
Cardinals, Brewers may add pitching

=========================

After last night's weak offensive performance against lefty Cole Hamels, Uncle Lou is probably begging Hendry to acquire an MLB-proven right-handed hitting RF. Since he is a left-handed hitter, that guy certainly wouldn't be Ryan Church. I can't see the Cubs having any interest in Ryan Church right now. Maybe during the off-season when the roster can be reconfigured, but not now.

“There’s nothing that’s going to happen in the next half-hour or hour, and there’s certainly nothing that’s going to blow people away like when we got Nomar,” [Hendry] said.

Well... I don't care if nothing happens in the next half hour if something DOES happen in the next 4 hours...

BTW - did Murton miss a cut-off man yesterday? Silvy keeps talking about how Murton can't hit a cut-off man, which isn't typically true.

Yeah, dave. I have heard them talking about Murton missing a cutoff man yesterday. I didn't see it either...

Yeah. On the ball that they held Iguchi at third. I don't recall who hit it down into the RF corner. I believe that was right before Rowand went kaboom.

He airmailed DeRosa. Theriot hustled over there and was there to back it up.

murton just cant throw...well, not well.

i still cant believe the 2 RF'rs this team has are average LF'rs at best and the truely best RF on the team plays 2nd.

go figure.

Nope. I'm thinking of a different play then. He did miss DeRosa by a good margin on one throw.

But then he did also make that really nice throw all the way to the plate.

anyone still thinking Reggie Sanders is the RH OF'er that would help down the stretch...he's only 5/24 (.208) since coming off the DL on July 16th.

too old, too injured?

for 2007 (73 ABs) he's: 315 .412 .493 .905
he is 2-2 as a pinch hitter and at .277 as a pH for his career.

Cost: probably just salary and a very low level prospect.

Blanco's sore left shoulder is something new, isn't it? Up until now it has been a "cervical herniated disc" which affected his throwing:

"News: Henry Blanco, who has been on the disabled list since May 31 with a cervical herniated disc, threw to second Friday, but he will do more Sunday."

"News: Henry Blanco (herniated disc) felt good after throwing to second base at full-strength on Sunday."

Why would a sore left shoulder affect his throwing?

Whatever. I always expected him back on about the same timetable as Wade Miller. I think Hendry offered him early retirement with an injury pretext so he wouldn't have to eat the salary of a DFA'ed player.

chifan3887 — July 30, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
Anyone want to guess what trades go down tommrrow. I think we will be involved in 2:

1. Kielty for Fuld
2. Dye and Thornton for Cedeno, Wuertz, and Piggy

========================

CHIFAN: I believe your #1 scenario (Sam Fuld for Bobby Kielty) is probably the most-likely one to actually happen. And I would think the A's would indeed find Sam Fuld to be a very desirable return for Kielty, and I also doubt that the Cubs value Fuld as much as they might if Felix Pie and Tyler Colvin weren't around.

BTW, for the second night in a row on ESPN's Baseball Tonight Peter Gammons mentioned Bobby Kielty in connection with the Cubs last night.

Because the A's designated Kielty for assignment last Monday (a week ago yesterday), they have to trade him before the waiver train leaves the station at 2PM (ET) today. Because if they don't trade him by that time, they will have to place him on $1 Release Waivers (he has too much service time to be placed on Outright Waivers without giving his permission, and I can't see Kielty giving the A's permission to do that), and because it takes two days to clear Release Waivers, the A's would have to place Kielty on waivers no later than the 8th day of the DFA period (and that's today).

Did anyone else catch Sutcliffe being critical of Pat Burrell last night? ESPN showed his stats as he came up to bat. 255 average with a 412 obp and Sutcliffe was ragging that you gotta have a better average out of your left fielder? I couldnt help but chuckle. Apparently the Dusty influence has rubbed off on Sutcliffe.

Cubster — July 31, 2007 @ 10:17 am
anyone still thinking Reggie Sanders is the RH OF’er that would help down the stretch…he’s only 5/24 (.208) since coming off the DL on July 16th.

========================

CUBSTER: Reggie Sanders is certainly another possibility. I mentioned Xavier Nady last week. There was talk a few days ago about Jay Payton. And Peter Gammons keeps mentioning Bobby Kielty.

Whoever it ends up being, I believe the one and only deal Hendry will make today (and he actually could probably wait to make such a deal until next month) will be to acquire a right-handed hitting RF for Lou to platoon with Cliff Floyd. I realize that Mark DeRosa could do that (platoon with Floyd in RF), but it appears that Piniella prefers to play DeRosa at 2B versus LHPs.

I did not chuckle. Because Burrell isn't there to walk. He never has been.

He's there to slug .500, hit 30 2B's, 25 HR's and drive in 90-100. He's not on pace to hit any of those numbers.

Maybe Wes...

But Burrell is having a helluva' July: .431/.567/.738

burrell taking a walk is neat...until you realize he's slow as hell and the #6/7/8 batters are trying to bring him 270ft.

even batting him 2nd you'd still have an issue with his slowness up top.

he's a frustrating player. if he had a little more power like he showed years ago or a little more speed and he'd be no more harmful than brian giles.

I realize that Mark DeRosa could do that (platoon with Floyd in RF), but it appears that Piniella prefers to play DeRosa at 2B versus LHPs.

Sure AZ Phil, DeRosa could be Floyd's platoon partner, but then who plays 2b against lhp?

Fontenot against lhp: .237/.262/.368

Rotoworld says Scott Proctor for Wilson Betemit is a done deal.

aaronb and Wes,

Murton missed a cut-off man on Howard's double in the third inning with Iguchi on first base. He overthred DeRosa and was lucky that Theriot was back there to snag it. Had Iguchi not been held at third he would have scored. Turned out not to be an issue because Rowand jacked the next pitch out for the three-run homer.

More relevant in my view than Murton was the fact that when faced with two runners on and one out in bottom of the fifth, when Lou needed to pinch-hit for Lilly, he had to turn to Cedeno. No one was warming up in the bullpen and Cedeno popped up on the first pitch. As others have noted above, that's just not smart baseball on Ronnie's part and I bet Lou was thinking to himself, "This is my right handed pinch-hitter?"

After that, I'd be really surprised if the Cubs don't trade for a right-handed pinch hitter of sorts soon. Not necessarily today, because a guy like Kielty can be traded after the waiver deadline. But something. You can't be in the playoffs, facing a Met team with lefty starters like Tom Glavine and Oliver Perez in a short series with Ronnie Cedeno as your first righty off the bench.

Rosenthal reporting it's now Mets, Red Sox, and Brewers for Gagne.

Brewers the one 1 of the 3 not on Gagne's no-trade list.

dave — July 31, 2007 @ 10:35 am
Sure AZ Phil, DeRosa could be Floyd’s platoon partner, but then who plays 2b against lhp?

Fontenot against lhp: .237/.262/.368

=========================

DAVE: Exactly.

That's what I'm saying.

Although he could, Piniella will not platoon DeRosa with Floyd versus LHP, because he wants DeRosa to play 2B versus lefties (for the reason you mentioned).

And I don't believe Piniella likes Murton as a platoon RF. Personally, I think Murton would benefit from a trade to a club where he can play LF every day, and that he would excel and be a very good MLB player in that situation. But signing Alfonso Soriano was basically the beginning of the end of Murton as a Cub.

I just don't think Murton performs well off the bench (guys like Ryan Ludwick and Todd Linden do, but Murton does not) or even as a platoon player. He needs to play every day.

Levine reported again that the Cubs are talking to the Nats about Ryan Church...

i still dont see the issue with moving the guy with the best OF arm...soriano...to RF. but, that's nearing "dead horse" territory since it seems no one cubs-related wants to touch that issue.

and no, i dont believe soriano is a fragile minded child who's distracted by something like that. guy moved from 2nd to LF and it didnt kill his stroke, he's just a streaky hitter, period.

Yes, so everyone agrees that Murton needs to play every day, and yet that just does not seem like it is going to happen, unless the Cubs get rid of Floyd... and I don't think that is going to happen.

Hmmm... Church is a left-handed Leftfielder...hitting .247 vs. lefties... I think we already have two of those (1 on the DL)

via the power of small city newspaper rumor the cubs are in the gagne chase...*shrug* *yawn*

Jace — July 31, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Yes, so everyone agrees that Murton needs to play every day, and yet that just does not seem like it is going to happen, unless the Cubs get rid of Floyd… and I don’t think that is going to happen.

=========================

JACE: Exactly. That's the way it is.

oh yeah...

http://yankees.lohudblogs.com/2007/07/31/proc...

there's the rumor source....

I do like the look of Gomes.
a Right-handed RF'er. is hitting .339 with a .981 OPS against lefties...

Jace — July 31, 2007 @ 10:45 am
Levine reported again that the Cubs are talking to the Nats about Ryan Church…

====================

JACE I still don't get why the Cubs would be interested in Ryan Church at this time. Does Levine give any reason for this alleged interest?

As I mentioned in an earlier comment today..

Uncle Lou is probably begging Hendry to acquire an MLB-proven right-handed hitting RF. Since he is a left-handed hitter, that guy certainly wouldn’t be Ryan Church. I can’t see the Cubs having any interest in Ryan Church right now. Maybe during the off-season when the roster can be reconfigured, but not now.

I agree, Phil. I don't get it either, but Levine keeps mentioning it. He has not given a reason. Gomes fits the bill a lot better...

Maybe Hendry is stockpiling lefty arms and bats?

I don't get it.

The only way I could maybe understand the Church thing is if Floyd is going out the door. I am not sure how that would work...

I know he ain't coming, but Gomes would be nice. He seems to be exactly what Lou is looking for. He'd also be under Cub control for quite a while and he'd be cheap. He would be great in RF, even if it's just a platoon with Jacque and Floyd. I'd consider parting with someone like Pawelek or Veal to get him.

I am NOT going to listen to Stephen A Smith on ESPN... time to switch to WSCR...

Jace,

If you have access to a tv BBTN is on at 1/2 past the hour.

JACE I still don’t get why the Cubs would be interested in Ryan Church at this time. Does Levine give any reason for this alleged interest?

I would think that it is because Church can play CF, which isn't true of some of the other names out there.

And I highly doubt Floyd is going anywhere.

"He’d also be under Cub control for quite a while and he’d be cheap."

Exactly WHY Rays would keep him! Perfect match - cheap and good!

No such luck, Chifan... Mike Murphy it is...

"Wes — July 31, 2007 @ 10:27 am

I did not chuckle. Because Burrell isn’t there to walk. He never has been.

He’s there to slug .500, hit 30 2B’s, 25 HR’s and drive in 90-100. He’s not on pace to hit any of those numbers."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Wes there is nothing more important than OBP and all other stats be damned. If a guy has a good OBP then nothing else matters. Don't you know that? Man! I guess you haven't tried the TCR Kool Aid yet. For shame!!!

Jace — July 31, 2007 @ 11:00 am
I agree, Phil. I don’t get it either, but Levine keeps mentioning it. He has not given a reason. Gomes fits the bill a lot better…

=====================

JACE: Or maybe it would be something like Matt Murton to WAS for Ryan Church, and then Church and a pitching prospect to TB for Jonny Gomes. That would be the only way the Cubs talking to WAS about Ryan Church would make any sense.

Certainly Gomes would fit the bill for a right-handed hitting platoon-RF. He has a lrgitimate RF arm, has played mostly RF in his career, hits well against LHP (but not as well versus RHPs), and he's only 26.

I knew you wouldn't be far away, Chad.

I have made a point over the past couple years to steer clear of the TCR Kool-Aid.

The non-waiver deadline is at 3 pm CT, right?

I like the way you think, Phil. Maybe someone should slip that as a trade rumor to Sullivan...

I think it's 2 pm CT, Carlos

Yes Carlos - 3 PM CT.

Wes there is nothing more important than OBP and all other stats be damned. If a guy has a good OBP then nothing else matters.

BS... no one said that. I don't disagree that Burrell's lack of power is disappointing, but that was not what the conversation was about. The conversation was about how Sutcliffe criticized Burrell for a low batting average (NOT a low SLUG, low HR, low RBI, etc).

Damn... Anyone seen the picture of Gagne on ESPN's web page? He looks like he has adopted the Vicente Padilla/Bartolo Colon diet regimen...

E-Man,

Exactly WHY Rays would keep him! Perfect match - cheap and good!

Like every other team in the Major Leagues the D-Rays have found two things:

1. You can can only play three or four outfielders on a daily basis.
2. You need to pitching to win.

Aaronb,

To me this deal
2. Dye and Thornton for Cedeno, Wuertz, and Piggy:

looks WAY better than this
Dye and Vasquez and $$ for Marshall and Murton

I am not sure what you mean by 'to me'. The relavant parties are Williams and Hendry. How do the deals look to them? I don't think the former is a realistic offer to tell you the truth. One solid middle reliever, a freely avaialbe talent and a guy who hasn't proven he can convert his game to the ML for the most sought after hitter at the deadline, who's going to bring back draft compensation and a lefthander who may be useful in the right situation.

Hmm...Pat Burrell:
.256/.417/.455....13 HR, 53 RBI's.

Which of the Cubs fabulous OF's is putting up those numbers? Soriano slugs better...Floyd has a higher average...Jones? He's better defensively.
He is much maligned, but geez...if he was the Cubs LF, and Soriano was in right, I wonder how much BS he's have to put up with?

Yanks send Scott Proctor to Dodgers for Wilson Benemit

The point here dave that it is fashionable to knock a guy about obp because of it's uberstat status and that if anyone criticizes batting average they are mocked because here a TCR, batting average doesn't matter.

If Burrell's OPB was low and Sut made light of that, you all would have applauded. But since he pointed out a 'meaningless' caveman stat, that is grounds for ridicule.

But what I am telling you, is that people who have played this sport their entire lives and have played in the major leagues know, there is more to baseball than OBP.

REAL NEAL: I don't know if you caught it last year, but the NYT did a long piece on the "Harvard MBA" young owners of the Rays.

In reading this, I just think that they are mildly interested in being competitive, and wil go to the ends of the earth to find young, cheap, and good talent. And then stockpile them. I don't know that much about the team (actually, I followed them more when Lou managed them) now, but am curious if the new owners have done any more trades than the old ones...

Acutally, my point in general was that Burrell was there to hit. Period. He has to be successful swinging the bat (italics added for emphasis) behind Howard or they won't score enough runs. He isn't doing that. He's really only had two seasons where he's done that. '02 (.282, 37 HR, 116 RBI's) and '05 (.281, 32 HR, 116 RBI's).

Probably part of the reason the Phillies can't win the NL East. They never scored enough pre-Howard and they still can't get anybody out 4 out of 5 days.

But what I am telling you, is that people who have played this sport their entire lives and have played in the major leagues know, there is more to baseball than OBP.

And so does everyone around here.

mlbtraderumors keeps saying that the Cubs are in on talks for Gagne... I think he is good, but I don't really see a need for him... as long as all goes well with W, the bullpen would have Wuertz, Howry, W, Marmol, and Dempster. What are they going to do with Gagne? I'd rather they use their trading chips and solve this OF problem...

Real Neal,

The Sox really need a SS and a young MLB reliever. Their fans and to an extent Guillen have lost faith in Uribe. They have no alternatives in their farm and Uribe is probably the best FA SS this winter. That is why I suggested it.

My thought is that the Cubs are in the Gagne talks in order to push up the price and keep him away from Milwaukee. And if they get "stuck" with Gagne? So be it.

Having the game 100% over in the sixth inning is a very nice thing to have Jace.

I agree about the OF thing, but there's nothing to say that's not happening as well.

Olney says Red Sox are the frontrunner for Gagne.

dave: "And so does everyone around here."

Really? REALLY? Casue you couldn't tell by reading this blog.

OBP ÜBER ALIS!

Really? REALLY? Casue you couldn’t tell by reading this blog.

Seriously Chad... sometimes I really question your ability to think logically.

Show me one example on this blog where anyone said that OBP was the only thing important for baseball success. Just one example, that is all I ask for. Shouldn't be too hard, since it is as prevalent as you say.

Sutcliffe is a straight-up joke in the booth. Fact is that Burrell's having yet another productive season. He certainly is capable of a few more dingers and maybe he'll get them before the season is out. Nevertheless, he's getting on base and extending rallies.

And, oh yeah, (in spite of Pat's best efforts to drag them down) Phils are #1 in the NL in runs scored by a 58 run margin.

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