Quadrophenia or Who’s in Left? Why.

As an eyewitness to the Alfonso Soriano now infamous grade II quadriceps strain, the repercussions from it have taken a life of their own. I saw that gleam in Soriano’s eyes as he rounded second base. He knew he had a 5th gear and shifted the transmission so he could motor on into third base. He never did make it to third base. Inning over, and a call in to AAMCO! Mighty Alfonso had grabbed the front of his right thigh…metaphorically, there was smoke coming out of his transmission, never a good sign. He couldn’t even walk to third base, so Met David Wright walked over and tagged him. Next, in great irony, our third base coach named Quade (in the old country, the family name was Quadracepese but they shortened it when they came to America) helps him and lends a shoulder and a leg to stand on as he leaves the field. Did I wait on the MRI with baited breath? No. I knew right then and there it was going to be 4 or more weeks for Alfonso. The quadriceps muscle is one of the larger muscles in the body. The “quad” as its name implies, comes from 4 muscles that combine to form the composite muscle (specifically, the Rectus Femoris and three Vastus (thigh) components, the medialis, the lateralis and a central or intermedius). Above, they attach to the top of the femur and one origin is just above the hip joint. Below, they blend to form the quadriceps tendon which has the kneecap/patella embedded in it. The quad therefore has some function around the hip, but is the main knee extension muscle (it straightens out the knee and resists or balances bending forces as well). Here is a picture of the quadriceps muscle anatomy. The term “strain” refers to an injured muscle (and sprain is used for ligament injury). Conventionally, a grade I, II and III system us used to categorize severity of injury, where one is minimal injury without tear, two is stretch type tear and three is a full thickness tear. Even grade III strains are usually not repaired surgically because muscle doesn’t hold sutures well although if there was a large enough gap in the muscle belly, a repair could be considered. The grading does help predict how long it takes to recover to a certain extent, but it varies a fair amount from patient to patient as some people do heal faster than others. The MRI looks at the anatomy and can see more detail of the injured area but since most of these injuries are treated non-surgically, it usually just confirms the clinical impression from exam. The injured muscle is tender and the area that is tender (how big the area is) or if there is a palpable gap in the muscle is the key information needed. I’ve seen some definitions that say grade II strains correlate with 10-50% of the involved muscle being injured. I don’t think that the damaged area needs to be measured very precisely, as the measurements don't affect treatment very often. The treatment is straightforward. Rest, protection of the injured muscle, in this case with crutches until the tenderness improves and it doesn't hurt to walk. Then gradual strengthening is resumed until resumption of running can be permitted. So with the MRI report showing a small, 1 cm defect (but not a clinically palpable one), Soriano's injury is definitely a grade II strain and people are now expecting it to be more like 4-6 weeks of recovery (opposed to the earlier reports of 2-4 weeks), but it’s still just an estimate at best. The main problem with a quadriceps strain given a rush to return is that there is a significant chance of re-injury. The season isn’t long enough at this point to even think that could happen to our $18 million dollar a season five tool leadoff hitter, billygoat curse or not. Ah, for the good old days when “Who's in Left? Why.” made one think of Bud Abbott and Lou Costello and not Lou Piniella’s decision regarding Soriano’s temporary replacement.
Return to Homepage

Comments

How does an athlete such as Fonz get this damn strain/tear?
Why couldn't this happen to Jock Strap?

Because Jock strap would have to get a hit before he could round second base?

Do you get the feeling that the Cubs and Brewers are conjoined twins?

Or maybe freshman girls in college, who spend so much time living together that their cycles start to coincide?

Because Jock strap would have to get a hit before he could round second base?

Soriano, post ASG: .255/.277/.439
Jock, post ASG: .309/.377/.397

Just saying...

i miss aaron already.

hank, that is.

Classy video from Aaron...

Classy speech from Barry.

Congratulations to Barry Bonds.

dodging some bullets but it's also missing opportunities...

Rocks 11 Brewers 4
Padres 4 Cards 0
Reds 4 Dodgers 0

C'mon Big Z.

Ohman-gate

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com...

Ohman not too thrilled about the demotion, now says his shoulder hurt and was trying to pitch through it. Oh boy.

scary thought but the least of our concern who shouldn't be hitting lead-off, but who is going to hit at all. You take away that 6th run inning in game 2 of the Mets series (too be honest a lucky 6 runs) and we really haven't done much hitting. Theriot will fit in fine in front of the lineup, WE HAVE A DEEP BENCH, everyone relax with the Soriano injury. Besides other than his one strectch just before the all-star break and the numbers haven't been that great, good, but not great. We just need hits from anyone anywhere PLEASE! and no i don't mean hits that involve Derrick Lee rushing the mound.

Just looking around for comps on the injury to Soriano.

ROSS GLOAD tore his quad May 13 and was out 46 days including rehab.

You know what dave, why are you all over Barry jock tonight? This is a sad day for baseball. A sad sad day. Barry can go fuck himself.

Ross Gload is not a 1/4 of the athlete that Sori is. And yes, part of being an athlete is the ability to recover faster than others. I read Jermaine Dye had a similar injury and didn't miss too much time.

Another comparable case

BJ Upton out June 8, back July 13

five weeks

Mark Teixera, amazing! same dates out and back as Upton

five weeks

What's really sad, Chad, is that you think there are three or four people who deserve some outrageous punishment/asterisk for all of this and that everybody else who played baseball during the steroid era (including the patron saint of Cubs home runs in said time period) is in the clear.

Without a shadow of a doubt. He and everybody else who never tested positive or has testimony against them wasn't EVER a juice guy.

here's a really bad comp...Bob Dernier's problems in 1985-6 were quadraceps related.

http://tinyurl.com/3aarvl

Traded to Chicago with Gary Matthews in 1984, he became the first Cubs outfielder to win a Gold Glove; a far-ranging centerfielder, he compensated for slow teammates Matthews in left and Keith Moreland in right. His 45 stolen bases in '84 were the most by a Cub in 77 years. Slowed by injuries in 1985-86, he eventually lost his job to Dave Martinez, and re-signed with the Phillies as a free agent for 1988.

Has anyone posted this ?

This Link.

Interesting theory

You know what dave, why are you all over Barry jock tonight? This is a sad day for baseball. A sad sad day. Barry can go fuck himself.

Well... sorry that we disagree. I am sure it will never happen again.

And you know what is funny? There is more evidence of your boy Sosa cheating than there is of Bonds cheating...

The kinder, gentler pennant race:

Mil Brewers: Hey man, what's up?
Chi Cubs: Hey! What's going on? You still with Damien Miller?
Mil Brewers: Yeah, yeah. He's good, he's good.
Chi Cubs: That's just great.
Mil Brewers: Hey... I have this division lead, do you want it?
Chi Cubs: Nah, man, you can keep it.
Mil Brewers: Are you sure? Because I'm not going to do anything with it.
Chi Cubs: No, I insist, go ahead and keep it.

Hey guys, on a more serious note, I have a question. I've been wondering how guys like Howard & Fielder will age. It seems like a lot of home run hitters start off as speedy, lead-off type guys and build into a HR hitter. Growing up, I don't recall young guys in the 6'0", 270 lbs mold, but I'm probably just not thinking of them. Big Hurt maybe? Any thoughts?

I don’t recall young guys in the 6′0″, 270 lbs mold, but I’m probably just not thinking of them. Big Hurt maybe? Any thoughts?

Big Hurt would fit in the size category, but never really had the enormous power that some of these other guys have.

Cecil Fielder was kinda' big...

Didn't Barry Bonds admit to using "the cream and the clear?"
Wasn't that a combination of steroids?
Did Sosa, while I believe he did juice up, have a book written about him detailing his steroid abuse?

Good article, Dr. Hecht. Looks like Soriano for last two weeks of season only and playoffs.

Regarding Ohman, is it possible to "pitch through" shoulder pain? I could understand dealing with an injury that does not have direct impact on critical mechanics (for example, Ortiz's knee pain, even Ramirez's non-throwing shoulder). Can anyone ever recall it happening with a pitcher saying they hurt their shoulder, but after a few weeks of "pitching through it" all was hunky-dory?

Rynox brought up physiology of big sluggers like Howard and Fielder. Baseball Prospectus actually has an algorithm that compares players to others, based on body type and statistics at a certain age. The general idea there is to match up physical attributes and production against historical database of players, then use the set of comparable players to predict growth of the player in question.

Ryan Howard's top comps: Mo Vaughn, Travis Hafner, Mike Epstein (AL 1B in 1960s-early 70s), Boog Powell, Carlos Delgado, Cecil Fielder. His list also includes Greg Luzinski, Willie Stargell and Frank Howard. This is a nice list but not Hall of Fame quality (yet).

Prince Fielder: Boog Powell, Kent Hrbek, David Ortiz, Chris Chambliss, Scott Rolen. Also has Luzinski on the list. The list includes two odd interesting names, Jose Canseso and Cal Ripkin Jr.

Compare that to Bonds, with Musial, Fisk, Winfield, McCovey and Yazstremski as his top five. Or Ortiz, whose top five comps are McCovery, Delgado, Jason Giambi, and Bonds. Or Pujols: Bagwell, Frank Robinson, Orlando Cepeda, Eddie Murray, Vlad Guerrero.

Hank Aaron does not turn up on Bonds's list or on A-Rod's list. But he does show up as a comp for Pujols.

ok.

Good morning! So I'm having some breakfast, drinking my juice and I see Barry Bonds* is the new record holder. Congratulations Barry. You've made a lot of San Franciscans** as happy as you've made the rest of the country pissed off.

Nice article on Bonds' armor BigZ99. I always felt it was unfair that his armor allowed him to essentially stand on the plate, but I had no idea that it assisted his swing as much as it did.

Barry Bonds is a narcissistic, pig headed cheater. But he's the new face of Major League Baseball's greatest achievement. Makes me feel let down and disappointed-- a little like 1994 all over again.

I think ARod will break this record soon enough. I hope so. Every year that Bonds holds this record is a painful reminder that the steroids era greatly tarnished our beloved pastime.

**And Dave

Great report.

Follow up question: do Monday's reports that Soriano was "walking around without pain" (according to Ron Santo in the pregame show) -- i.e. not even on crutches -- give reason for optimism that he will be back right around Labor Day?

It ain't hurt unless the trainer tells you it's hurt, DC Tom. Your shoulder might hurt, but that doesn't mean you're hurt, if you see what I mean.

Ohman's no fool. He knows he's not pitching that well. If he's hurt and has to go on the DL, it isn't a given that he'd come right back to the Cubs bullpen.

I'm sure it affected his mechanics at least a little bit, but now that he's been optioned, he's going to go ahead and have it looked at. The article said he never told anybody with the team that he was having any pain problems.

So reading between the lines, if the Cubs don't make the playoffs, could Soriano effectively be lost for the reason of the season? Sigh . . .

To me, Bonds' most heinous crime isn't that he cheated in order to leapfrog Aaron. It's that he robbed the most hallowed, revered record in sports of its meaning.

Even the most sympathetic Bonds supporters have to agree that at the very least, Bonds may or may not have used steroids; we don't know for sure. There seems to be some evidence, but hey, he never failed a drug test. There's no smoking gun, they say. But it can't be denied by anyone that there is a cloud of uncertainty hanging over everything Bonds has done. And that's enough to ruin this record forever. It's lost its meaning.

We may never have closure on this. That may be Selig's fault, may be Bonds fault, may be society's fault. There's a lot of blame to go around. But the lack of closure means the argument will go on and on, and there won't be a consensus about who is the "Real Home Run King." It's a silly state of affairs for a record that's supposed to be simple and objective.

People who are bothered by this will find some comfort in the question that was asked by a gutsy reporter after last night's game: "Do you think this record is tainted?" Bonds seemed disturbed by the question, and answered an emphatic (and predictable) "No." But the question hung there, as it will for the ages.

The persistence of that question means that Bonds will never be completely accepted by all as the "real" Home Run King as Hank Aaron was.

Uncertainty was Bonds' ally as he approached the record -- it meant that there wasn't enough evidence to block him from his chase. But beginning today and for the rest of his life, that same uncertainty will be his curse.

Wes, a player always has the right to have a doctor look at a part of his body regardless of what the trainer says or does. You may be right in thinking that Ohman might have been reluctant to talk about his injury because he was worried about losing his position on the team.

I simply question his judgment in not addressing or confronting an injury until now. Ohman is signed through 2008 and will be paid regardless of whether he is on the 25-man roster or DL or not. This team is in the pennant race and he wasn't performing--if he kept his injury a secret solely because of his ego, that hurts the team. Perhaps he would have been optioned or DL'd before the trade deadline and we could have traded for a LOOGY like Ray King. Now the only left-handed option out of the pen is Eyre.

The article said he never told anybody with the team that he was having any pain problems.

It did? This is what the article says:

Ohman said he did not hide his shoulder issues with the team, but felt he could pitch through it.

Well, can't Cotts be brought up?

Get back to me when he breaks Pete Rose's record, truly the most sacred hitting record in baseball.

Of course, Barry's the one who deserves to be in the HOF, according to some.

dave, thanks for pointing out in the Ohman article that he didn't hide his shoulder issues from the team. I retract my vitriol in my prior post and now direct it at the Cubs trainer and staff. And repeat my first question, Does anyone ever know about a pitcher that simply "pitched through" a throwing-arm shoulder injury? Who were they kidding? Eyre, Clay Rapada and Cotts are our LOOGIE choices now?

Well, can’t Cotts be brought up?

You mean the Cotts with a 6.68 ERA in AAA?

Guess I read a different one than you, dave. Try this one.

The Cubs were not aware of Ohman's shoulder problems until Tuesday, team officials said, and putting him on the disabled list was not considered.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...

Also, it happens a lot more than you might think DC Tom. I obviously dunno any big leaguers that have had that problem, but it's quite commonplace on the lower levels. I'd say a very large percentage of pitchers have pitched through some shoulder pain.

ZHL, I agree, all-time hits probably should be regarded as a more sacred record than HRs.

Bonds is not even remotely close to Rose's hit mark of 4256, with only 2915. But that is because of the walks. In terms of times reached base, Rose is No. 1 with 5929 and Bonds No. 2 with 5560. Bonds could break that record if he plays two more years.

Does anyone ever know about a pitcher that simply “pitched through” a throwing-arm shoulder injury?

Mark Prior?

Wes — August 8, 2007 @ 8:12 am
Ohman’s no fool. He knows he’s not pitching that well. If he’s hurt and has to go on the DL, it isn’t a given that he’d come right back to the Cubs bullpen.

========================

WES: Exactly. If Will Ohman goes to Iowa on optional assignment and pitches poorly, he might not get recalled by the Cubs after September 1st. Not a likely scenario, but it is at least a possibility that he might not get recalled.

The reason this would be a BIG problem for Ohman (and his agent) is that right now he is four days short of five years of MLB service time, and in order for him to be a FA after the 2008 season (when his current two-year contract expiries) he HAS to go into next season with at least five years of MLB service time.

So if he can get his optional assignment canceled because of a "pre-existing injury" (and that's the only way he can get the option canceled) and get himself placed on the Cubs DL instead (as happened with both Mark Prior and Roberto Novoa earlier this year), then he will be sure of going into next season with at least five years of MLB service time, and that means he will be a FA after next season, instead of waiting until after the 2009 season.

Rob, regarding Hill and falling behind early in games ("It's Not Easy Being Rich Hill," #46).

I was going to apologize to Mr. Hill, but then I looked at the actual facts rather than your BR numbers that muddle the issue by including early-season games.

In games since June 12th, Hill has given up his first run(s) in these innings, in this sequence:

2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 4th.

That's June 12, 17, 23, and 29, July 4, 16, 21 and 27, Aug 4 and 6.

In six of the games, Hill gave up the first run of the game. The Cubs lost four of those.

Zambrano looks very different.

Since June 6th, Zambrano has given up a run before the fifth inning in exactly one game, a 6-2 loss to the Pirates on July 8th.

Since June 6th, Zambrano has given up the first run of the game twice, June 16 against the Padres (Cubs lost 1-0) and Aug 3 against the Mets (Cubs lost 6-2).

Ted Lilly: since June 15th, Lilly has given up the first run in the game three times, June 21 vs Rangers (Cubs lost 6-5), July 14 against Astros (Cubs won 9-3) and July 30 vs Mets (Cubs lost 6-2).

Wes, I'm sure it does. And it makes perfect sense for a player who is fighting for a job or minor league promotion to pitch through pain. Especially if you are still reasonably effective and if getting sent down involves a pay cut (which it would for a guy like Weurtz). And I'm not kidding myself and thinking that all these guys all deal with pain on some level during the season, it is simply part of the job.

But if you've got a guaranteed salary through 2008 like Ohman does, your team is in the race, and you are not being effective, there should be no "He said, she said" and confusion between you and the team about whether your pitching shoulder is hurt or not!

Mark Prior?

er, ...no. The question was, has a pitcher been injured, pitched through it, and come out healthy the other side?

DC Tom — August 8, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Eyre, Clay Rapada and Cotts are our LOOGIE choices now?

==========================

DC Tom: And Carmen Pignatiello, too. Piggy has very good numbers versus left-handed hitters at AAA Iowa this season (0.69 WHIP and a .151 Opp BA).

VA Phil,

That is really a bizaare take on pitching.

Dave,

"Does anyone ever know about a pitcher that simply “pitched through” a throwing-arm shoulder injury?

Mark Prior?"

Wood pitched out of the bullpen very in effectively '05 with a shoulder problem.

er, …no. The question was, has a pitcher been injured, pitched through it, and come out healthy the other side?

You mean has someone developed an injury from pitching, then treated that injury by pitching some more, which made the injury heal? Pretty safe to say that's a 'no'. I am sure some pitchers pitched through some problems that had time to heal in the off-season. Smoltz's time in the bullpen in theory helped him be able to return to the rotation.

Correction to Hill's pitching dates: Aug 1 and 6.

DC Tom: That's true, but the walks are a direct result of the home runs, which are a direct result (most agree) of the PEDs. No one even walked Rose so he wouldn't hit a single off of them.

AZ Phil, thanks for filling in the pieces a bit on Ohman.

The CBA is clear that a player that is "injured and not able to play may not be assigned to a Minor League Club" (with the exception of rehab assignments, and rehab assignments count toward MLB service time). Avoiding a grievance filed by Ohman would seem to be the only incentive the Cubs have to retract the option assignment and place Ohman on the DL now. Otherwise they have no incentive to issue the retraction. That would certainly explain why there is disagreement between the Cubs and Ohman as to whether he told them about the shoulder.

Piggy would have to be put on the 40-man to be a LOOGY option. Who would come off? Cotts? Or do you put Blanco on 60-day list and sort it out later?

it's obvious that when Will Ohman says his shoulder has been barking, he's not injured...he's just suffering the after effects of E-man's voodoo doll pins. The pin used after his outing against the Mets was the ugliest needle I ever saw.

"And you know what is funny? There is more evidence of your boy Sosa cheating than there is of Bonds cheating…"

Dave,

If you honestly think this true I got three words for you: Game of Shadows.

I cant get to upset about Bonds because in 7 years Arod will have the record. Also on Prince Fielder if he can hold up physically he will break Oh's record. The guy has the most raw power I have seen and he is only 23. He is at 63 career bombs now and should have about 15 more before the end of the season giving him 78 before age 24.

That’s true, but the walks are a direct result of the home runs, which are a direct result (most agree) of the PEDs.

No... everyone does not agree. Or at least everyone does not agree to the extend that PEDs helped Bonds hit home runs.

Further... the bonds are NOT a direct result of the walks. Through 2000 (the year before 73 home runs), Bonds averaged 103 walks a season.

So while the walks did go up significantly after that, he ALWAYS had phenomenal patience/knowledge of the strike zone. He has had just one season with more strikeouts than walks.

Also on Prince Fielder if he can hold up physically he will break Oh’s record.

That is a HUGE if. Lets not get too carried away about a guy who has played 1.5 seasons.

Quote of the day?

the Beatles took performance-enhancing drugs. ... Absolutely no one holds it against them.

:)

chifan3887, A-Rod has a shot at Oh's record of 868. And A-Rod had well over 100 HRs before he turned 24.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01...

Fielder might have a shot at 756 or whatever mark A-Rod sets as well. There seem to be two key facts for accumulating huge HR totals--you need to be called up to the majors early (the reason Ryan Howard has no chance), and you need to stay injury free (the reason Griffey has no chance).

I've actually read several articles recently about the enormous pressure put on players to play through injuries. It's a combination of male ego, pressure to win, the complete lack of support guys on the DL get (a lot of players have nothing to do with injured players) and the now nature of sports so you never know who's going to take over your spot.

With the kind of manager Lou is, I can see a player thinking they're screwed if they can't immediately contribute to the team.

The guy has the most raw power I have seen

And his dad had some pretty amazing raw power also; it got him 300+ home runs... and that is about it.

Don't get me wrong - I think Prince is better than his dad. But come on - he doesn't even have 2 full seasons, and has just over 1,000 at-bats.

DC Tom — August 8, 2007 @ 9:10 am>
AZ Phil, thanks for filling in the pieces a bit on Ohman.

The CBA is clear that a player that is “injured and not able to play may not be assigned to a Minor League Club” (with the exception of rehab assignments, and rehab assignments count toward MLB service time). Avoiding a grievance filed by Ohman would seem to be the only incentive the Cubs have to retract the option assignment and place Ohman on the DL now. Otherwise they have no incentive to issue the retraction. That would certainly explain why there is disagreement between the Cubs and Ohman as to whether he told them about the shoulder.

Piggy would have to be put on the 40-man to be a LOOGY option. Who would come off? Cotts? Or do you put Blanco on 60-day list and sort it out later?

==============================

DC TOM: If the Cubs need slots on the 40-man roster:

1. Henry Blanco can be transferred to the 60-day DL (he has already been on the 15-day DL for more than sixty days, so that's an obvious one).

2. Scott Moore could be recalled from his optional assignment at Iowa and can be immediately placed on the 60-day DL (Moore is presently on the Iowa DL with a sprained ankle). However, placing Moore on the 60 would effectively end his chance to play for the Cubs in 2007 (time spent on a minor league DL does not count toward time spent on the MLB 60-day DL, so Moore would have to "serve" the entire 60 days, starting on the day he gets recalled). But if the Cubs need a roster slot, Moore could be “sacrificed.”

And once he is on the Cubs 60-day DL, the Cubs can send Moore on a DL rehab assignment to Iowa at any time for up to 21 days, and since there is only about 30 days left in Iowa’s season, what difference does it make vis-a-vis Moore’s development if he is playing for Iowa on an “optional assignment” or on an MLB DL rehab assignment?

So even if the Cubs were to recall Moore from Iowa and place him on the 60-day DL, he still would be able to spend up to 21 days at Iowa on a minor league rehab prior to the conclusion of Iowa’s season, although he would lose his chance to play for the Cubs in September. He would be accruing MLB service time and getting paid an MLB salary the entire time he’s on the 60-day DL, however.

Note that the difference between Moore's "minor league split" at Iowa (where he is paid about $10K per month) and what he would get paid if he were to be recalled and placed on the Cubs MLB 60-day DL for two months (about $65K per month) might be the main reason the Cubs wouldn't do it. (The difference over two months would be about $100K).

3. The Cubs could recall Geovany Soto from Iowa and DFA Koyie Hill (thus removing K. Hill from the 40-man roster). If K. Hill makes it through Outright Waivers without being claimed (and the way he's been hitting, I doubt that he would get claimed), he would almost certainly accept an outright assignment to Iowa (that way he keeps his minor league split instead of having to maybe sign a minor league contract for a lot less money with another organization), so that if Kendall or Soto were to get hurt before the end of the season and Blanco is unable to return, K. Hill would be available as a fall-back at AAA.

433: Follow up question: do Monday’s reports that Soriano was “walking around without pain” (according to Ron Santo in the pregame show) — i.e. not even on crutches — give reason for optimism that he will be back right around Labor Day?

=======
It's a good sign, but far far too early to think it means he will be able to return sooner than 4 weeks (I'm not saying it's impossible, just doubtful). The quad is pretty large so one can get off the crutches pretty quickly, but it's other activites that come around slower like getting up from sitting or walking down stairs later on it will be accelerating/decelerating while running. I thought someone said that Soriano won't rejoin the team until Colorado. So any info is coming from Chicago and not from Santo seeing Sori in person as yet.

re my "bizarre take" on pitching--

I'll rephrase it: pitchers who complain about lack of run support should try to keep the score at zero-zero for as long as possible.

Take two: teams in general would score fewer runs if they started every game behind 1-0 or 2-0.

cubster — August 8, 2007 @ 9:13 am
it’s obvious that when Will Ohman says his shoulder has been barking, he’s not injured…he’s just suffering the after effects of E-man’s voodoo doll pins. The pin used after his outing against the Mets was the ugliest needle I ever saw.

=========================

CUBSTER: I'm no expert on this, but if Will Ohman's shoulder is "barking," shouldn't he be seeing the Cubs team veterinarian instead of the team physician?

pitchers who complain about lack of run support should try to keep the score at zero-zero for as long as possible.

Isnt that what every pitcher should do?

Take two: teams in general would score fewer runs if they started every game behind 1-0 or 2-0.

What? Anything to back this up?

Virginia Phil -
Take two: teams in general would score fewer runs if they started every game behind 1-0 or 2-0.
_______________________________________________

Is there any actual factual support behind scoring early and scoring more? I've heard this theory a lot, but never seen any data to support it.

BTW... Godenot since July 1st:

.214/.298/.238

Yeah, Fontenot is one of those other examples of how Lou doesn't JUST play guys are hitting. He's been stone cold recently and still playing.

Hill hasn't actually been complaining. "Pitchers who experience lack of run support," etc.

Is there any actual factual support behind scoring early and scoring more? I’ve heard this theory a lot, but never seen any data to support it.

Yeah, there probably is, but I'll repeat the sentence that got me into trouble with Rob yesterday: I don't feel like doing the legwork.

Does anyone thing we're better off failing with Pie in CF everday then Jacque. He's so horrible. Nice Airmail throw yesterday and baseloaded pop up in the 1st. Pie can do that. Floyd is a joke too. But we have nothing else.

Nice Job Hendry/Tribsters. We could have Griffey in RF, but you still have hope Pagan/Murton/Cedeno are gonna amount to something.

Somebody should tell hendry that its not Fantasy Baseball wear they add up the stats to determine your record.

I DID use my voodoo needles on my Oh-Man! voodoo doll. But, not in the shoulder...

Dave: How do you quote me saying 'most', then translate that to 'everyone'? Most = more than half, less than all. Don't be a rooster.

Dave: How do you quote me saying ‘most’, then translate that to ‘everyone’? Most = more than half, less than all. Don’t be a rooster.

Not trying to be a rooster... just pointing out that I don't believe there is a consensus among baseball people regarding the kind of impact that PEDs had on Bonds' number of home runs.

bonds broke a record.

the players let it happen. the "union" let it happen. the owners let it happen. MLB brass let it happen.

if you listen to guys other than canseco (kruk, for instance) this problem didnt just appear outta nowhere in the early 90s. canseco's ego just wouldnt let him be anything but the godfather of roiding in his book.

1993 phillies...just saying...just saying...kruk's referred to how he's been tempted by others around him.

others have mentioned...the 70s MLB era is FAR from clean from roid rumors...reggie jackson's "racist charges" of roid use isnt exactly black/white.

DECADES of sitting on their asses...

every damn record they have can get broken for all i care...maybe everyone in a $30-$200 stadium seat will appreciate our modern era and its modern records.

break em all roid boys.

btw, the 93 phillies "suspects" are guys like pete incavillia and the accused lenny dykstra...along with other fringe suspects like hollins/daulton.

its all speculation even with hightened suspects like dykstra and inky.

Pie UP?

Just read on Sulli's blog...

Why not? It couldn't hurt seeing that nothing else is firing, yet except the other "kids".

It is really unfortunate Hoffpaiur is injured.

Pie up.

Not sure who is going down. (link)

Oops... E-Man beat me to that one.

It will be interesting to see who they send down. I would think it has to be Cedeno or E-Pat, but I would LOVE for it to be Pagan.

ND- Um...was Griffey really on the block?
Were the Cubs really going to take on his salary through 2009? A 37 year old with a history of injuries, at least, over the last few seasons? Who should they have traded?
Griffey's July?
.205/.369/.375...4 HR, 17 RBI.

His May and June were very good, but it's hard to justify trading a boat of prospects for that type of player who is under contract for 2 more seasons.

"...I would LOVE for it to be Pagan."

HA! Wishful thinking, David.

Lou loves him - I used to...

I'd have to say Cedeno or E-Pat

pie up makes no sense without shedding an OF'r or putting one on the DL.

floyd/murton/jones/pagan...pie...

pie has 3 stupid weeks left in the minors before it ends...is everyday play just too much work for him? too hot in iowa?

5th OF is nice...but that one?

my personal guess is fontenot is ticketed out of town.

yes, he's a god amongst men, but he has 2 doubles for a total of all his XBH since the all-star break (60ab .217/.324/.250 avg/ob%/slg).

ooops...that first line was supposed to be deleted...it was formed before my head said to me "oh yeah, murton's back with the club".

dur.

just start from the list of players...heh.

wow VA Phil, that was weaker than a Chad sabermetric attempt. Come back when you actually want to do the legwork.

in the meantime start with this:
http://www.stathead.com/bbeng/spira/pitchtosc...

my guesses are:

Fontenot, Cedeno or E-Pat in that order.

See, the thing is, it makes sense to send Patterson down because with Pie we'd have 4 left-handed-hitting outfielders (Pie, Pagan, Jones, Floyd). But we already do, with Patterson! So Pie would make 5 and that's too much. If we wanted to get Pie's bat up here, why did we call Patterson up in the first place? And if we wanted Patterson up to hit leadoff like he was in AAA, then why did we hit him 8th?

This doesn't make sense...

Yea... the more I think about it, the more I think it may be Godenot. He has been quite bad recently, and is limited to one position.

Cedeno can play 2b, SS, 3b. E-Pat can play LF, CF, 2b. Godenot can play 2b and ... 2b. And doesn't even do that very well. And definitely hasn't been hitting well.

Many of us are taking solace in the "fact" that Howard or ARod or somebody will soon break the record. Not so fast....Nate Silver from BP...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basebal...

scoring early/often.

every inning counts the same and unless you're facing a tem with a kickass pen or weak starting it dont matter.

its very situational. scoring early/often off j.santana is nice, but you're more likely to get your runs off that pen.

every run counts the same and all the hitters are out there with their 30-40% success rate trying to apply their skills.

just because a pile of numbers points to something doesnt make that the pure cause/effect and some links are just anecdotal at best and almost impossible to implement as something you train to get better at.

ORGANIZATIONAL DEFENSIVE CATCHING NUMBERS (as of 8/6)

CUBS
1. Jason Kendall 0-24 CS (0%), 0 E, 0 PB (CUBS ONLY)
2. Koyie Hill: 11-40 CS (28%), 1 PB, 4 E (combined CUBS and AAA)
3. Henry Blanco: 2-11 CS (18%), 2 PB, 0 E (combined CUBS and PEORIA)

AAA
1. Geovany Soto: 16-51 CS (31%), 4 PB, 3 E (combined CUBS and AAA)
2. Tony Richie: 9-37 CS (24%), 1 PB, 5 E (combined AA and AAA)
3. Jake Fox: 4-15 CS (27%), 1 PB, 2 E (AA only, now playing 1B-OF at AAA)

AA:
1. Chris Robinson: 25-62 CS (40%), 2 PB, 5 E
2. Casey McGehee: 18-38 (47%), 6 PB, 1 E (converted 3B)
3. Alan Rick 2-6 CS (33%), 1 PB, 0 E (combined DAYTONA and AA)

DAYTONA:
1. Mark Reed: 30-75 CS (40%), 3 PB, 5 E
2. Jake Muyco 34-58 CS (59%), 3 PB, 2 E
3. Steve Clevenger 4-22 (18%), 3 PB, 1 E (combined BOISE and DAYTONA, converted infielder)

PEORIA:
1. Welington Castillo: 27-65 CS (42%), 11 PB, 12 E
2. Matt Canepa: 3-25 CS (12%), 2 PB, 3 E
3. Blake Lalli 4-15 CS (27%), 1 PB, 0 E

SHORT SEASON CLUBS (began play in mid-June)

BOISE :
1. Josh Donaldson 13-42 (31%), 9 PB, 4 E (combined AZL MESA and BOISE)
2. Mario Mercedes 3-12 (25%), 2 PB, 2 E
3. Luis Bautista 2-3 (67%), 0 PB, 0 E

AZL CUBS (MESA)
1. Carlos Perez 17-30 (57%), 6 PB, 0 E
2. Roberto Sabates 3-19 (16%), 0 PB, 5 E
3. Matt Hudgins 0-5 (0%), 0 PB, 5 E

=================================

OF ASSISTS LEADERS (as of 8/6):

Buck Coats – 14 (AAA)
Alfonso Soriano – 11 (CUBS)
Sam Fuld – 9 (AA, just got promoted to AAA))
Nelson Perez – 9 (AZL MESA - all since June 22)
Matt Camp – 7 (PEORIA, DAYTONA, and AA)
Jorge Cortes – 7 (AA and AAA)
Alfred Joseph – 6 (PEORIA and DAYTONA)
Tyler Colvin – 5 (DAYTONA and AA)
Jake Fox – 5 (AA, AAA, and CUBS)
Leon Johnson – 5 (AZL MESA and PEORIA – all since June 22)
Josh Kroeger – 5 (AA and AAA)
Jonathan Wyatt – 5 (BOISE – all since June 19)

(This means also that Lou could go down the stretch with a potential all-inexperienced fielding alignment of:

Patterson LF
Pie CF
Pagan RF
Cedeno 3B
Theriot SS
Fontenot 2B
Derosa 1B
K. Hill C
S. Marshall P

What's that, like 4 or 5 years total MLB experience combined?)

Could the E-Pat callup have something purely due to a "numbers" time-buying move w/the demotion of Oh-Man! ?

Rob G. — August 8, 2007 @ 10:36 am
my guesses are:

Fontenot, Cedeno or E-Pat in that order.

=========================

ROB G: With DeRosa able to play SS in a pinch and E-Pat able to play 2B if necessary, I would say either Fontenot or Cedeno, probably Fontenot.

Could the E-Pat callup have something purely due to a “numbers” time-buying move w/the demotion of Oh-Man! ?

How so? What did E-Pat's call-up have to do with Ohman's demotion. I don't get how they are related.

As long as they play well, I could care less how much experience they have.

The E-Man — August 8, 2007 @ 10:43 am
Could the E-Pat callup have something purely due to a “numbers” time-buying move w/the demotion of Oh-Man! ?

=========================

E-MAN: I believe Eric Patterson was brought up in direct response to Alfonso Soriano going on the DL, and it had nothing to do with the Ohman/Gallagher move.

If Ohman's optional assignment is canceled due to a pre-existing injury, then Ohman MUST go on the 15-day DL. He CANNOT be placed back on the 25-man active roster.

As far as E-Pat being sent back to Iowa, if the Cubs wait until at least Monday 8/13 to option Eric Patterson to Iowa, they won't burn one of E-Pat's minor league options because he could then be recalled on September 1st having spent only19 days on optional asignment to the minors (8/13 through 8/31), such that the option wouldn't count (the Cubs did the same thing with Matt Murton in August 2005).

AZ Phil-

RE: Kendall -- anybody know the record for most consecutive SBs allowed without a CS? Sheesh.

To the rest of the gang--

"Have a little faith,
There's magic in the night...."

I can't see the Cubs caring about burning Patterson's 2007 option at this point. They would still have all of 2008-09 to run him back and forth from Iowa, and then decide to keep or give up on him.

Between Fontenot or Cedeno, the decision should come down to 'who is better pinch hitting off the bench?' and despite recent performance, I would still take Fontenot.

DeRosa can still play SS in a pinch, so my vote goes to Cedeno (see ya' on 9/1, Ronny).

I would like to think Hendry is looking for a bat (Church, Kearns, etc. - God knows the Trib has to stay within a budget, so no Griffey), but the recall of Pie would seem to indicate nothing is close to happening.

E. Pat - LF, Pie - CF, Jones - RF wouldn't be the worst defensive OF.

We better not be trying to replace Jones with Pie right now. Jones is hitting .292 with a .358 OBP since the All Star break, and we need all the offense we can get. Defense is not losing us games, not scoring more runs is losing us games.

Again, who cares about defense at this point George? Having EPat and Pie in the same lineup will get us zero offense, and without offense, having good defense is pointless. We need someone in the OF who can hit, and Murton, Jones and Floyd are the only options for that.

Well... Floyd hasn't been doing much hitting lately, and it is a bit pre-mature to say that E-Pat can't hit.

Well, Floyd has a .429 OBP in the last 7 days, .425 in the 14 days and .373 in the last 28 days. He has no power, but he is getting on base. I don't like Floyd and didn't like the signing, but right now if I have a choice between him, Pie, EPat and Pagan, I am picking Floyd. We need people on base and hitting, not defense right now.

And again, it's not like I'm in love with any of those 4 choices. I definitely want Murton in LF, Jones in CF and the RF is just a mess, with Floyd the best of some bad options.

“Have a little faith,
There’s magic in the night….”

The Cubs aren't beauties,
but hey, they're all right???

Jacque Jones last 10 games:
.250/.302/.375, 0 HR, 6 RBI's
Yeah..he's tearing it up.

Cliff Floyd last 10 games:
.275 avg...0 HR, 5 RBI..
.Yep...tearing the cover off the ball..

No one else could hit that well...

Cubs Win the Pennant mentioned this yesterday on another thread and it bears repeating...

Geovany Soto is leading the Pacific Coast League in SLG and OPS, he's second in batting average, and 3rd in OBP. And he's thrown out 31% of opposing base-stealers.

With Alfonso Soriano's offense missing for the next month or two, it becomes increasingly difficult (maybe impossible) for the Cubs to win with a lineup that must include either Jason Kendall's lack of power and atrocious throwing arm or Koyie Hill's weak stick.

Lou Piniella keeps talking about the Cubs needing to do better versus LHP.

OK.

So recall Soto and give him the front-line catching job. That should be a priority.

"And you know what is funny? There is more evidence of your boy Sosa cheating than there is of Bonds cheating…"

Not true. 100% made up by you. There is legal testimony that has Bond's admitting to using the cream and the clear. Whether he knew it or not that was using steroids. He admitted it. Sosa admitted nothing.

Yeah, we dare not sit Jones and his "2" (count 'em) "2" home runs in 287 AB's.

#105--

AZ Phil shows his mastery once again by specifically not spelling correctly the word containing the name of the giant-calved pitcher who must not be named.

Well, just having the 10 day thing is kind of cherry picking. In the last 7 days, Jones is hitting .318 with a .348 OBP and an .803 OPS.

Again, in the 2nd Half (21 games), Jones is hitting .292 with a .358 OBP. He has been hitting quite well over that period and again, we need all the offense we can get.

Also, again, Floyd has a very high OBP. Yes, before Chad, asks, OBP isn't everything and I'd like more power. But if I have a choice between Floyd getting on base a lot and no HRs vs Pagan, Pie and EPat not getting on base a lot and also not hitting HRs, I will take Floyd.

Recalling Soto and giving him the front-line catching job should now be a prority.

Agreed... but...

Few of the Cubs' AAA superstars have been able to convert that to success in the bigs this year. Part of that is lack of opportunity. Part of that is that there seems like there is something odd in the water in Iowa, as EVERYONE is hitting over there.

Also... moving Soto into the front-line catching job would mean that Hendry would have to admit that Kendall was a mistake. He has been willing to do that this year (Izzy, Bowen, etc), but for some reason I am not sure he would be willing to do it for Kendall.

But I would fully support giving Soto an opportunity. He fully deserves it.

Grossman will be on the 'Dan Patrick repleacements' show in about 5 minutes, for anyone interested.

I thought I read somewhere about Soto possibly being called up soon--I'll see if I can backtrack and find it...

wow VA Phil, that was weaker than a Chad sabermetric attempt.

Maybe so, Rob, but you owe Mr. Zambrano an apology for bringing bogus stats that suggest that he gives up early-inning runs at a rate similar to Rich Hill.

Sosa admitted nothing.

Maybe you missed the game where a shattered bat sent cork flying through the air.

Once again, Sosa admitted nothing.

AZ Phil: I’m no expert on this, but if Will Ohman’s shoulder is “barking,” shouldn’t he be seeing the Cubs team veterinarian instead of the team physician?
=========
I suppose former Cub pitcher, Dr. Rich Nye is the team veterinarian. His specialty is birds...which makes sense as lately Ohman was for the birds.

Once again, Sosa admitted nothing.

Ummm... he didn't need to. We all saw the evidence right in front of us.

Furthermore, corking your bat is against the rules but doesn't help you hit home runs. Steroids do. And Sammy Sosa holds no real home run records. Whereas Bonds cheated his way to the most hallowed record in sports. And for whatever reason, you don't have a problem with that.

So you're saying that Sosa is a liar then? Mark McGwire admitted nothing, Bonds says if he took anything it was an accident. So...we're judging players on what they admitted here or what we think?

If Bonds took roids, so did Sosa, McGwire and Clemens. We cannot cherry pick here based on personal likes and dislikes.

What exactly does a corked bat do, Chad?

So both cheated, and you love one and hate the other.

I love consistency.

Here's a scientific study done on corked bats:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c...

Basically, they will lead to a ball going 2% further. So, 8 feet more on a 400-foot flyball. That'd certainly be enough for more then a few extra HRs on all those warning track shots.

AZ Phil said: "Recalling Soto and giving him the front-line catching job should now be a prority."

I don't disagree, but it gives me a sinking feeling because Kendall will be on the bench when the A's call Blevins up. I thought we'd at least get a couple of months out of Kendall.

The Cubs don't always do the right thing when it might make Hendry look bad.

Also, there's the question of how well Soto works with pitchers. Nobody gets anybody out at Iowa.

Johann, curb your enthusiasm. Just look at JJ over his career. His best months at the plate have been April and July with significant fall off in other months.

This year has been no exception -- the bar is just lower

MUCH LOWER

Career
April .297 .815*
May .275 .757
June .261 .719
July .291 .838*
Aug .269 .763
Sept .271 .777

2007

April .280 .679*
May .205 591
June .176 .525
July .288 .757*

"We could have Griffey in RF..."

I get the impression that the implication is that we could've picked up Griffey quite easily - but you seem to be ignoring the reality of the Red's GM always asking for the moon for any of his players, no matter how talented or untalented they are - the reality is that we probably would've been fleeced for a short - term rental.

there's a couple ways to fight the bonds vs. subject 2...

there's other known roiders...

there's guys who are implicated strongly, but there's no proof...

there's no proof and all speculation...

no matter how many people believe (such as myself) that sosa pumped himself with PEDs...there's nothing. sosa denied, unlike mcgwire, at hearings. sosa's not been linked to any of the roid ring busts even circumstantially.

no one can win a sosa arguement until/unless further info comes. all it takes is 1 semi-credible loudmouth to break a story like that.

Pagan, Pagan, Pagan--go and don't come back, at least until you've earned it.

Fontenot is our best lefthanded hitter by the numbers. You want to send him down?

Cedeno is having coffee and dessert at the Last Chance Cafe--which is why I think they'll want to give him a longer look.

Dave and Wes,

Some proof that corking doesnt help you:

http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathtrek_04_11_05...

"Fontenot is our best lefthanded hitter by the numbers. You want to send him down?"

60ab .217/.324/.250 avg/ob%/slg

that's probably the leading arguement. since the A/S break he's been...well...vulnerable as hell.

Ryan Church would have to clear waivers. What makes you think another club would not get him before the Cubs?

That works on the assumption that Sammy never hit with a corked bat after that fateful evening. I'm not sure that's 100% fact.

I'll take the actual scientific study for $1600, Alex.

Some proof that corking doesnt help you:

Did I say it helped him? I simply said he cheated.

I'm shocked I didn't see this on here already, maybe I missed it, but Felix Pie has been recalled for tonight's game, according to the Chicago Tribune.

something odd in the water in Iowa, as EVERYONE is hitting over there.

Not everyone. Scott Moore's BA was in the .240-.250 range most of the season, and Chris Walker couldn't buy a hit.

People who say the PCL is a hitter's league don't explain why the Cubs hit better: most runs and home runs.

CONGRATS to Barry Bonds, the NEW Home Run King!!!

Some proof that corking doesnt help you:

And no, that article didn't give any proof of a relationship (or lack thereof) about corked bats and home runs.

"If Bonds took roids, so did Sosa, McGwire and Clemens. We cannot cherry pick here based on personal likes and dislikes."

Bullshit. There is no hard evidence of Sosa's alleged steroid use. So I can continue to believe this until there is.

"Wes — August 8, 2007 @ 11:48 am

What exactly does a corked bat do, Chad?"

I read another study (and I wish i saved taht website) that shows that the ball is not in contact with the bat long enough for the cork to help. By the time the ball leaves the bat, the cork is still contracting. Then expands after the ball has left the bat. If anything, corking probably hurts ball flight ever so slightly. Probably not enough to ever notice.

Holy christ, a mannytrillo sighting.

I’m shocked I didn’t see this on here already, maybe I missed it,

Comments #76 and #77.

I heard somewhere that they're recalling Pie to make Soriano's injury heal quicker.

If Fontenot goes down, it will not be because he's not hitting --- especially compared to Ronny Cedeno. It will be because of his perceived lack of versatility.

JEREMY BLACK: :...maybe I missed it...

yep.

it will not be because he’s not hitting — especially compared to Ronny Cedeno. It will be because of his perceived lack of versatility.

True... BUT...

Since Cedeno has been up:
Cedeno: .200/.250/.200
Godenot: .206/.289/.265

Godenot may be slightly better than Cedeno in this very limited sample size, but definitely not much better. Godenot surely hasn't been hitting well for the last month or more.

Something I think a very large portion of us can actually agree on this afternoon...

A post over at the other blog this afternoon that boggled my mind. We're now condeming the practice of bringing the infield in. It never works, you know? Lou needs to cut that crap out.

Unbelievable. Just makes one shake their head and chuckle.

"People who say the PCL is a hitter’s league don’t explain why the Cubs hit better: most runs and home runs."

PCL isnt a hitter's league cuz of the cubs this season. No one can really point to why the cubs seem to have 3/4 of the bats hitting pretty predictably over their heads all season...or at least so many putting up such huge #s...

the PCL is a hitter's league cuz of the parks...its cuz of colorado springs' lighter air, the rock-hard infields of parks in tucson/lasvegas/etc, and more "friendly" parks like oklahoma and memphis's parks.

I wasn't suggesting Patterson, Pie, Jones as the starting OF. Only that, with a late inning lead they would be a pretty good defensive OF. I noticed last night that Patterson does a better job of tracking how many outs there are versus Pagan.

Everyone agrees the Cubs need to hit, and nothing makes any baseball team look worse then when they aren't hitting and/or scoring.

Until Soriano returns, I would start:

1b - Lee
2b - DeRosa
3b - Ramirez
ss - Theriot
lf - Murton
cf - Jones
rf - Floyd
c - Kendall

I would use Pagan, Fontenot as splits warrant.

By the way, whose dog did Soto kick not to get called up by now?

"We’re now condeming the practice of bringing the infield in. It never works, you know? Lou needs to cut that crap out."

I hate playing the infield in. I have hated it since the 2001 World Series. If Jeter is playing at regular depth he catches that Gonzalez hit and if Theriot is playing staight up in the 6th last night Houston doesnt score those last two runs.

RE: Corking - if the bat is lighter you can swing it more quickly, maybe I'm missing something here...

if Theriot is playing staight up in the 6th last night Houston doesnt score those last two runs.

Well... you can't really say that. If The Riot is playing at normal depth, the runner from third almost definitely scores. And then we have no idea what would have happened after that.

Virginia Phil — August 8, 2007 @ 11:53 am
AZ Phil said: “Recalling Soto and giving him the front-line catching job should now be a prority.”

I don’t disagree, but it gives me a sinking feeling because Kendall will be on the bench when the A’s call Blevins up. I thought we’d at least get a couple of months out of Kendall.

The Cubs don’t always do the right thing when it might make Hendry look bad.

Also, there’s the question of how well Soto works with pitchers. Nobody gets anybody out at Iowa.

============================

VA PHIL: I don't think you can blame any of the Cubs catchers at Iowa for the disappointing performance of the I-Cubs pitchers this year. The Iowa pitching staff (especially the starting rotation) has just plain sucked.

Soto has spent the past four Spring Trainings in the big league camp, so he knows the Cubs pitching staff very well, even more-so pitchers who have passed through Iowa on their way to Chicago.

Since the All-Star Break, Soto has gone 371/458/786 (1.244 OPS), and has thrown out four of the last ten runners who tried to steal against him. So he has just gotten better and better as the season has progressed (he had a sore shoulder coming out of ST), especially so since the ASB.

You can't attribute Soto's success at Iowa this year to playing road games in the rarified air of Colorado Springs and Albuquerque, either, because he has a better BA, OBP, and SLG at home than on the road.

And his OPS is 200+ points better when he hits with runners on base and RISP, something the Cubs have not done too well recently.

On the negative side, Soto WILL strikeout a lot (especially versus RHP), and he is a VERY slow runner. But I think I would be willing to accept those limitations at this point.

WISCGRAD you can get the same effect of lightening your bat by LEGALLY taking some of the wood out of the top of the bat. If you look at many major league bats, the top of it is concave. You can sand it down even further. This is 100% legal by MLB rules. That was cited in the article i was talking about.

"...sosa denied, unlike mcgwire, at hearings."

Well, he kind of denied it, but that wasn't much of an emphatic denial. "Me no speak Englese' too good...please ask my translator."

Ridiculous, namby - pamby, lawyerly, non - denial/denial. Just answer the question plainly, but he didn't - and either did McGuire ("I'm not here to talk about the past."). Not convincing, to say the least.

The only true liar out of the that entire bunch is Palmeiro. The rest of them is all speculation...although I think they all took steroids, even that loudmouth Schilling.

all this talk about roids/etc/etc...

and its STILL not fixed.

does any of our conversations matter until they actually fix the issue at least somewhat close to olympic standards.

yes, no one wants to give up blood samples, but this is a business that has a minimum wage of over 1/3 million.

the whole thing went unaddressed and ignored by all parties involved (including the media) for a loooong time and they keep putting up partial-fixes every few years since they decided to start this "crackdown" for almost a decade now.

Maybe so, Rob, but you owe Mr. Zambrano an apology for bringing bogus stats that suggest that he gives up early-inning runs at a rate similar to Rich Hill.

I'm sorry, runs given up from innings 1-3 is now a bogus stat?

Can we get a pre-approved list of non-bogus stats?

and I didn't suggest anything, you said you didn't want to do the legwork, I did it for you. Let me remind you what you wrote:

but my impression is that Hill has been giving up his runs early. If you want to be a winning pitcher, it’s a good idea to put up five goose eggs. Then you can relax a little.

First- and second-inning runs are a problem.

I gave you the runs given up from innings 1-3 for the whole season. You didn't like that so you moved the target to just since June 12th and giving up the first run of the game.

Just let me know where it's going to move to again, so we can knock that out the way as well.

Steroid talk is boring.

Anyone wanna live chat for the brewers game? they are losing after 1.

AZ Phil mentioned it in comment #89, but in case you glossed over it. Sam Fuld got promoted to AAA, which makes it seem obvious that an infielder is getting sent down, unless someone is getting DL'ed.

David Wells to be DFA'd tomorrow, they'll have 3 days to trade him.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7104100?CM...

I forgot there was 1 out at the time. Though the first time they played the infield in if they would have just conceded the run on the berkman hit they could have played straight up on the other one.

2 - 0 rox! go rox!!!

Whether the ball goes further with a corked batter or not, everyone knows it's cheating, Sosa included.

4 to 0 Rockies!

tbone you are correct. it is still cheating. but it didn't taint any records.

rox 4 - 0!!!!

The Brewers losing is fine and everything... but I'd rather the Cub's just win some games. Another win streak would be nice.

6 - 0

8 - 0

Welcome to Colorado, Yovanni Gallardo.

Take that, you Brewer pitchign phenom!

8-0 Rocks, after 2.

I think Hill and Marshall just wet their collective pants.

Go Colorado... get all those runs out before tomorrow!

ROB G,

With Soriano out and Hendry out of money and ideas and August historically the worst month for Piniella teams,maybe it's time for you to reprise your April article, The Lou Effect.

http://mvn.com/mlb-cubs/2007/04/03/the-lou-ef...

Is the recent losing streak about the Goat or is it just another August Lou Implosion?

Good lord, the Brewers are in free fall.

Hey, Brewers... the Law of Averages just called and they want Gallardo back!

well as long as he and the Cubs come= back strong in September we'll be okay...

can't we just stick to blaming barrett?

I blame Barrett for being stuck at work all day...and last night's loss.

*Nice Job Hendry/Tribsters. We could have Griffey in RF*

Yeah, geez, the Cubs already have one guy making 18 million with leg issues--let's go get another guy who makes 18 million and has a HISTORY of leg issues. Great thinking.

And I love how everyone is already looking forward to someone, anyone breaking Bonds' HR record, just like the day after Bush was elected and 13 tiny Democrats threw their wee hats into the 2008 ring. Hilarious.

"And I love how everyone is already looking forward to someone, anyone breaking Bonds’ HR record, just like the day after Bush was elected and 13 tiny Democrats threw their wee hats into the 2008 ring. Hilarious."

Yeah, but Bonds isn't killing people...that we know of.

Gallardo taking one for the team

They just pinch hit for Todd Helton in the 3rd inning?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Yeah, I was just starting to feel sorry for him. Looks like he's staying in there. Colorado is already making substitutions.

With the way the Cubs, Brewers and Cards are playing, just watch the Astros will have one of their epic August-September runs ala '03, '04 and '06...and win the division.

Gained 10 games on the Cubs from 8/26 - 10/1/04.
Gained 7.5 games on Cards from 9/17-9/27/06.

...Walden Two taking one for the league, too:)

Nice Job Hendry/Tribsters. We could have Griffey in RF

And how do you know "we" could have had Griffey? How do you know what Cinci was asking for? How do you know he was even available?

From what I heard, Dunn and Griffey were two

Chad - I'm well aware of the cupping on the top of bats, having played in a wooden bat league for a couple of years. You should notice, however, that Sosa's corked bat also was cupped like virtually every other - thus corking would make it even lighter, an extra advantage. You can also find the rules of bat specifications here: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official.... You will notice that there are regulations about diameter, cup restrictions, etc.

Sosa used a 34" 32-oz at one point. If he could cork it to weight only say 30oz, that's an adnantage, would enable him to swing faster with the same coverage and thus the ball go further.

They are finally rescuing him.

anyone know why Graffanino came out?

Sprained left knee for Graffanino.

The Farns cleared waivers. Now that Barret's gone, we might need him to kick somebody's ass?

Report from Colorado is Helton left due to minor back spasms. Announcers are playing it as more of a precaution since they built a big lead.

Absolute bloodbath now, 15-2

now Carlos Villanueva taking one for the team and so is CGT...not so good.

AZ Phil,

Is there any way to know who cleared waivers since Aug 1st? I mean short of knowing someone in the league office ...............or other means?

Pagan has "stomach ailment," which is supposedly why Pie is getting called up. That would possibly mean Pagan is either going to the DL or AAA.

Source: ESPN 1000

FWIW a fellow Cub fan tells me the guy they're sending down is Angel Pagan. I'm not sure where he got it from, though--could be WSCR or WMVP. Can anyone confirm that?

Wow.

alright, predict the final score everyone, we're a 16-2 at the moment in the bottom of the 5th.

I'm going 24-8, Pack convert the 2pt conversion.

Am I allowed to feel sorry for the Brewers...what a collapse.

(Correction: Pagan to DL)

someone at NSBB heard it as a strained oblique for Pagan.

Can somebody please hide Rich Hill and Ted Lilly in a secret government installation in the Rocky Mountains before the weekend series?

Pages

X
  • Sign in with Twitter