Game 117 Thread / Cubs @ Rockies (4 of 4)

Game Chat Sean Marshall vs. Tim Harikkala Lineups:
Theriot SS Mastui 2B
Jones RF Tulowitzki SS
Lee 1B Holliday LF
Murton LF Helton 1B
DeRosa 3B Atkins 3B
Fontenot 2B Spilborghs RF
Kendall C Barmes CF
Pie CF Gil C
Marshalll P Harikkala P
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Comments

wonder what Harry Caray would do with the Rockies pitcher's name?

Adam Kennedy out 2-6 weeks with a torn knee meniscus

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7114710

Roster move (per Len Kasper): Cliff Floyd on the bereavement list (his did is again gravely ill) and Darryle Ward activated

How long 'til the Cardinals pass the Cubs?

Nice to see the Cubs break out the all-singles offense against yet another piece of crap pitcher.

Cardinals have been decent at home this year, not so much on the road (got swept by the Nats last week). And their pitchers still suck. If anything could be deemed a make or break week in August, they have it this week. On the road at Milwaukee and 4 with us.

Jock's made three fine defensive plays so far in the game.

Looks like Lou's in slump, too -- pulls Marshall for no good reason, then Kerry blows the game.

It seems like they have been terrible in the last games of home stands and road trips -- today is no exception.

The pitchers have also been terrible in the 6th inning on this road trip.

I have been an avid Cubs fan since the early 60's and I have never seen a more heartless club. Sure, there have been worse Cub teams to take the field but this team does not seem to care to work as one unified unit. Derek Lee looks like he could not care whether he strikes out or gets a hit. Lou has his work cut out for him - it is hard when there is no pulse or sense emotion throughout the entire team.

Derek Lee looks like he could not care whether he strikes out or gets a hit.

You obviously didn't see Lee get pissed last night after a strikeout then.

I have seen plenty of emotion from this team. Not sure what you are looking for.

I gotta go with dave here. I mean i don't see a fire coming from this team but to call out Derrek Lee is way out of line. He's the heart and sole of this team.

Walk it off, LongTime. If this is the all time worst, most heartless team then what were June and July all about?

I had a blast on Wrigley field today. Played catch, pictures by the ivy and a beautiful fund raiser for handicapped kids. Took the tour, sat in the pressbox, etc. There's nothing like being out on the field.

Not real news here, but I did get a chance to talk to the clubhouse manager and asked him about Koy Hill. According to him Big Z is the only thing standing in the way of a ticket out of town.

Kendall could use a throwing arm transplant

Well that was annoying... 3 against the stros, 4 against the rox, that should equate to more than 2 wins. Ugh.

Chad:
I gotta go with dave here. I mean i don’t see a fire coming from this team but to call out Derrek Lee is way out of line. He’s the heart and sole of this team.

Lee: 4-26 (.130) since Soriano came out. With Soriano, Floyd, and Ramirez out... if Lee can't pick it up a little it could be very ugly.

It's .154, btw, not .130. I forgot to add today's game in that calculation. :(

Good news, Ryno, is that the Brewers are saying the same thing about their 6 game roadie.

I also agree with Chad and Dave on Lee. He is the only thing to a leader this team has. It looks like he is playing hurt with that wrist now and with Sori on the DL and Ram playing a game on the road trip he couldnt take the day off he needed. With Ward and Ram back, I hope Lou gives Lee Tuesday off and plays Ward at 1b so Lee can have two days to rest. Also I dont get why everyone is in a rush to DFA KHill and bring up Soto. Soto would be also be backing up Kendall and playing about 20% of the time. I have no problem keeping Soto at AAA getting atbats for 2 weeks and then getting to be the back up Kendall when rosters expand. If Lou was comfortable using Soto as a starter, the Kendall trade wouldnt have been made atleast until Soto showed he couldnt hit at this level. 90% managers want an expirenced catcher for a playoff race.

And the Cardinals are licking their chops!!!

It's been 19 days since Lee had a day off. Maybe that has a much bigger role in his slump then not caring?

That's what I think Johann. The guy is tired. He needs two days off. If Aram is back on Tuesday then (as stated above) Lee should sit on Tuesday. He's older now and I think it's great to try to be an iron man but for the sake of the team, he needs to rest.

And the Cardinals can lick their chops all they want but until they get to .500 they are not on the radar.

You say that as the Cubs and the Brewers both slowly sink back to .500.

The Cardinals are closer to 4th than they are to first, and they've gone 5-5 over their last 10. Wake me up when they get to a game back.

Wake me up when they get to a game back.

That could happen as soon as this Thursday. They're playing Milwaukee next.

And then they play us 3 in Chicago.

And then they play us 3 in Chicago.
------
actually 4 in Chicago, it's a weird wraparound series from Friday to Monday.

If you think this team is the most heartless you've ever seen, you must not have watch Cubs baseball circa 2006. Granted, the road trip didn't go as well as we would have wanted or expected, but the team is only 1.5 game out in the NL Central and 3.0 games out in the wildcard. Once the Cubs make the playoffs, their season record won't matter that much.

As for the Cardinals, I wouldn't get too panicky just yet. Their pitching still sucks. Having said that, the next week or two will be interesting for the Cards.

Btw... L&B said Fielder was ejected from the game. MLB.com says this:

HOUSTON -- The Brewers lost a game, and now will wait to see if they will lose their MVP candidate for a few days.

Moments after first baseman Prince Fielder was ejected for arguing a called third strike that ended the Brewers' half of the eighth inning, Astros first baseman Lance Berkman hit a go-ahead home run that sparked a four-run Houston rally and sent Milwaukee to a 6-4 loss at Minute Maid Park on Sunday afternoon.

Hmmm... Jeff Francoeur is showing how valuable a good arm in right field can be tonight.

The Cubs' collective heart doesn't worry me as much as Felix Pie's head when he's batting.

Is anything going on up there?

If you throw him a fastball early in the count, he might drive the ball. A fastball is easy to read, and he just reacts to it and hits it. But if you throw him a breaking ball, by the time he figures out what it is and where it's going, it's too late to hit the ball. Those are the ones he fouls back to the third base side. He almost always swings late at breaking balls.

Today he swung late at a breaking ball on a 2-0 count, which suggests that he doesn't have the concept of a hitter's pitch. I know he's 22, but most hitters have figured out that you can cheat a little on 2-0 and 3-1 and get a good rip at a fastball. If you guess wrong and swing early at a curve, no harm: it was probably going to be a called strike anyway. That's why it's a hitter's count. If the count is 0-2 and you swing late at a breaking ball, that's okay. You were protecting the plate. But you should be ahead of breaking balls on 2 and 0.

Otherwise, every pitch is the same to you; or, as Ronny Cedeno describes his hitting philosophy, "see the ball, hit the ball."

Is Pie Ronny-Cedeno stupid?

Lee: 4-26 (.130) since Soriano came out. With Soriano, Floyd, and Ramirez out… if Lee can’t pick it up a little it could be very ugly.

There is no question that Lee is struggling. That is not the question. But being in a slump is VERY different than "not caring" or having "no pulse or sense emotion [sic]."

heart?

hell, they're 33.4827% up in grit compared to april 23th at 4:12pm.

the scrap factor is through the roof!

where was the lack of heart, scrap, grit, and pixie fairy dust 2 weeks ago during a month and 1/2 of stupid crazy winning?

we're not even 10 games outta that streak. gimmie a f'n break. its a game, its a competition, and even the most stacked of teams cant win 2/3rd of their games througout the history of the game....with very few exceptions.

that said...being without soriano and aram while dlee is in a power slump isnt helping anything. when murton is batting 4th in 07...you got problems.

marshall threw 84 pitches? you gotta be f'n kidding me.

didnt see the game...im on "vacation" outta town.

was he looking like crap? losing it? he had 2bb, but 1 was intentional.

Virginia Phil:
If you throw him a fastball early in the count, he might drive the ball. A fastball is easy to read, and he just reacts to it and hits it. But if you throw him a breaking ball, by the time he figures out what it is and where it’s going, it’s too late to hit the ball. Those are the ones he fouls back to the third base side. He almost always swings late at breaking balls.

When you have a ridiculously long swing you, logically, have to start your bat before you read the pitch. In AAA you can get away with it, not in the bigs. His swing is nothing short of a train wreck. That's why last December I predicted Pie would flop. He has no business with a major league club and he needs to find a batting coach that connects with him and spend a couple years with him in Iowa.

crunch:
was he looking like crap? losing it? he had 2bb, but 1 was intentional.

The Rox were crushing the ball. Even the outs were hit with some authority.

Yes, they were hitting the ball hard, and it had little to do with the thin air there. But that park does seem to be hell on pitchers in general - a few of those grounders shot out of the infield faster than during the astroturf years.

As for the "heart" question, you should've seen the reaction of the team during the missed call at 1st base last night in a critical situation. They were plenty pissed - so worry instead about their lack of hitting with runners in scoring position, their relievers getting dead - armed, starters rarely going past the 6th inning, etc.

floyd's father has died. probably be without him for a little while.

skip the "cold/heartless" speech if anyone has one...people die every day and i can't pretend they all touch me emotionally even if it does to some others. im not insulting anyone here.

This Cubs team seems to act like the 2004 Cubs team - lots of talent but no character to win...

"Lots of Talent"
-------------------
I just don't understand how people can keep saying we have "lots of talent". A Major portion of our talent is injured (ARam, Soriano). If we have "lots" of talent then we wouldn't be hitting Murton clean up. If we have "lots" of talent then Cedeno wouldn't ever be on the 25 man roster much less in the starting line up. I would say we have just about "enough" talent.

lots of talent but no character to win…

So what... they had this mysterious "character to win" during June and July, but somehow magically lost it?

Rory: I am not picking on you but I am just tired hearing from the cubs brass and fans who are buying the crap that we have lots of talent. If we have lots of talent then what do the Yankees and Red Sox have?

What we have in 2007 is just about enough talent and lots of character and fire lit up by fiery Lou. Because of that just about enough talent, character and winning attitude we were really good in june and july. But now with injuries to Soriano, Ramirez and Lee slumping big time we lost 5 of 7 in this road trip. We just don't have reasonable talent to fill in for Ramirez, Soriano and pick up DLee (actually it should have been DLee picking up the load with ARam and Soriano out). At this stage Pie is all glove and no bat. Patterson is not ready yet. Murton and Cedeno would look good if they just go back and hit AAA pitchers. Floyd was a known injury risk from the beginning and he has been a big flop.

just one more reason to dislike Bonds

http://mvn.com/mlb-pirates/2007/08/13/steiger...

*# Rob G. says:

August 12th, 2007 at 11:30 pm

just one more reason to dislike Bonds

http://mvn.com/mlb-pirates/200.....-truly-is/
*

Oh, boo-hoo, Barry Bonds won't sign every fucking piece of paper that's put in front of his face. Jesus Christ, this Bonds-hatred is rapidly approaching that of Bush-hatred. Give it up and give it a fucking rest. Soon A-Rod will break the fucking HR record and soon someone else fill be President.

Last I checked, this was a fucking CUBS website--not a "I hate Barry Bonds website".

Bonds owes Pittsburgh NOTHING. Shit, if he hadn't signed with SF, he'd have probably been traded for a bag of shit to the fucking Cubs anyway. Then he'd have had to fight Sosa for the fucking 'roids.

Well then...

Last I checked, this was a fucking CUBS website–not a “I hate Barry Bonds website”.

Last I checked you have a choice to read it or not.

Re: the Cardinals, may I point out that their run differential, while no longer in three digits, is still -94? And ours is +43? Granted I'd still like to see ours get better, but I don't see the Cards improving on that drastically.

Pell Mell:
Re: the Cardinals, may I point out that their run differential, while no longer in three digits, is still -94? And ours is +43?

Any team with a rotation that includes Kip Wells is not going to have a good run differential. :-p

I have a hypothetical question. HYPOTHETICALLY, if the Cub's win the WS, does Rob Bowen get a ring?

HYPOTHETICALLY, if the Cub’s win the WS, does Rob Bowen get a ring?

The even bigger question...

Does Michael Barrett?

From the Sun Times:

Injured backup catcher Henry Blanco (shoulder) expects to find out Tuesday, after an exam by the Cubs' medical staff, whether he'll be cleared to continue a minor-league rehab assignment in an attempt to return to the active roster.
• • The Cubs have until Wednesday night to sign first-round draft pick (No. 3 overall) Josh Vitters, a high school infielder. But despite little recent movement in talks, the team is not especially concerned about signing Vitters, largely because about half the teams in baseball are in the same position with their first-rounders. Players, agents and teams are waiting for the first one or two to blink this week, at which point most or all of the unsigned first-rounders are expected to fall in line based on the size of those deals.
• • Don't be surprised if the Cubs recall left-hander Clay Rapada from Class AAA Iowa this week to help balance a bullpen with only one lefty, struggling Scott Eyre.

Rynox, as a regular TCR reader, I've heard a lot about Felix Pie's long swing. I don't see it. His swing looks fine to me.

Jones has a longer swing. DeRosa's is very long.

Maybe it comes with having long arms. Lee's swing is pretty long.

Pie has a different problem. It's a rookie problem, but it's acute in his case. You can't study pitches like he does and then expect to hit them. You have to guess a little, work the count and commit to swinging so that a couple of times a game, you get an advantage over the pitcher and get a good rip at a good fastball.

No matter how long your swing is, if you guess fastball and the pitch is a curve, your swing will be early. Pie is never early.

He just doesn't know the first thing about hitting. Not just the pitchers--the umpires are eating him up, too. If you don't act like a hitter, you'll never get a call.

I don't know much about hitting or hitting mechanics. Not going to claim like I know anything about it. All I ever needed to know was when I fooled a guy as opposed to when I didn't. I'm working with nothing more than an opinion here.

But I share the opinion that Felix has a very, very long swing. Now, I think that's fine when you're hitting early in the count. If it's 2-1 on you, you can take whatever kind of swing you want to take. Whatever it takes for you to mash it.

The problem I have is that it seems like every time I look up, he's already fouled off two pitches and he's immediately in the hole 0-2. Yet, he still doesn't change his approach. Big, long cut that takes forever to get through the zone despite the fact that he's got very good bat speed. DeRosa is very good at shortening up when he gets to two strikes. Felix isn't. You're never going to succeed like that. For a vast, vast majority of hitters, when they get to 0-2, the average drops dramatically. Even more so when you're doing a bad job of protecting the plate.

Virginia Phil:
Rynox, as a regular TCR reader, I’ve heard a lot about Felix Pie’s long swing. I don’t see it. His swing looks fine to me.

Really...? It appears to me that he expends a lot of extra movement before he brings the bat through the zone, also, he has that absurd flare at the end of his swing. The "flare" may or may not effect his swing.

Jones has a longer swing. DeRosa’s is very long.

Maybe it comes with having long arms. Lee’s swing is pretty long.

The Jones comparison is fair, and actually, I see a lot of similarities to their game (throwing arm aside). The result? Jones wiffs at a ton of breaking balls out of the zone, as does Pie. DeRosa's swing isn't the greatest, either, but I'm okay with ignoring that because he makes it work.

I have to respectfully disagree on Lee, though. His swing is a thing of beauty.

...That said, Pie has some great raw talent. His body will allow him to do some amazing things on the field once he learns how the game is played at the big league level.

Re Pie's swing,

The thing I have noticed in Felix's swing is his total lack of making adjustments. All series the Rockies pitchers were busting fastballs in on his hands. Every time Pie would either swing and miss, or foul the ball back. Yet he swung almost every time. One would figure that a good hitter would realize how he was being attacked and make the necessary adjustments. Unfortunately for us and Felix. No adjustment was made. If you can't do anything with a pitch. Let it go. If the pitchers are busting you in for strikes. Move off the plate. The tell tale sign will be this comming series. The book has been established on Pie. Bust him in on the hands. Real prospects make adjustments. What will Felix do?

Back to the Floyd thing, all of you folks who threw a hissy a while back about his potential player option at the end of the year are probably in luck. Now that Cliffy is on the bereavement list again, it looks like he won't get enough AB's to be able to turn that from the mutual option to the player option.

Particularly since Murton has swung it well since his recall. 297/350/568.

And Murton will cost about 500K. As opposed to 10M for Cliff. None the less. God bless the Floyd family in their time of grief. He is going through probably the hardest thing he ever will in his lifetime right now.

Another good start for Smardjz at Tenn., which makes him two-for-two there. Not much, but it's something. Also, Colvin up over .290.

Splitting against a hot Rockies team in Colorado, without Z pitching and without Soriano or Ramirez, isn't bad -- it was the Astros sweep that killed the road trip.

Got to hang in there and grind it out for a few weeks, then win it with a big September.

The book has been established on Pie. Bust him in on the hands.

Yep, they do that, then they throw fastballs up and away which he chases without adjusting his feet. I think that's where the "long swing" perception comes from. It's more of swing out of sync with his body. Body goes one way, arms another.

I don't know if Pie is actually crowding the plate, but the effect is the same. He actually looked at a pitch yesterday he thought was inside and was shocked when it was a called strike. As you've already noted they bust pitches in on his hands and he can't get the barrel of the bat on the ball and fouls them off. If the ball is up over the middle of the plate, Pie tends to chop grounders down the line. Almost all his groundouts are tightly grouped between the second and first baseman.

But Pie's base hits are all clustered in left centerfield---nothing to the right at all, a good indication that his bat is slow or he's chasing outside pitches. I think it's a combination of both.

The problem with the book on Pie? Well, by and large you won't find many major leaguers who get worked over inside. As Bob Brenly reminds us almost every Cubs telecast, t's not done much anymore.

Only 23 years till we get more help in our rotation.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb140/adur...

LOL

Wes — August 13, 2007 @ 7:53 am
I share the opinion that Felix has a very, very long swing. Now, I think that’s fine when you’re hitting early in the count. If it’s 2-1 on you, you can take whatever kind of swing you want to take. Whatever it takes for you to mash it.

The problem I have is that it seems like every time I look up, he’s already fouled off two pitches and he’s immediately in the hole 0-2. Yet, he still doesn’t change his approach. Big, long cut that takes forever to get through the zone despite the fact that he’s got very good bat speed. DeRosa is very good at shortening up when he gets to two strikes. Felix isn’t. You’re never going to succeed like that. For a vast, vast majority of hitters, when they get to 0-2, the average drops dramatically. Even more so when you’re doing a bad job of protecting the plate.

=========================

WES: Whether Felix Pie's swing is "long" or not, I don't believe that's the problem in terms of the results he's getting.

I think you nailed it when you mentioned Pie continually getting himself down in the count by fouling off pitches. Pie is used to hitting mistakes at AAA, but MLB pitchers don''t make as many mistakes as AAA pitchers do, and so he is (right now) fouling off pitches he will eventually learn to drive.

Pie is a hyper-aggressive extreme first-ball fastball hitter and cripple shooter with the slam-power to SLG 500+ with a combination of doubles, triples and HRs. He will probably do that with a relatively low BA and OBP, but with a higher BA and SLG with RISP. He will also K a lot and not walk much.

In short, Pie will be an ideal #6 or #7 hitter, capable of possibly moving up to the middle of the order (#4 or #5) once he hits mid-career and gets more experience hitting MLB pitching.

The things I've always noticed about Pie are his energy, intelligence, aggressiveness, and savvy, the very same qualities that help (and hurt) Alfonso Soriano be the player he is.

Pie's history is that he will master a level if given a chance. He doesn't really adjust to the pitchers as much as learn how to make his natural energy and aggressiveness fit into his new surroundings.

The problem with Pie is that for a long time the Cubs thought of him as a top-of-the-order guy, and he is a square peg in that hole. Fortunately, Soriano (when healthy) hits lead-off and Theriot does well hitting #1 or #2, which should allow Pie to remain at the bottom of the order for as long as he needs to stay there.

The Cubs need to just let Felix Pie be what he is, and stop trying to mess with him. Hit him 7th and he will drive-in runs with XBHs. And as he learns MLB pitchers he will become a better hitter, and so he should be able to gradually move up in the order to 4-5-6.

And of course nobody on the roster can play CF like he can.

#58-
outstanding !

People jumped all over me when I made the Felix Pie- Jack Jones comp earlier in the year. But AZ Phil basically just described Jack Jones in his rundown of Pie above. Low average, Low obp%. Yet someone who may hit 27 Homers as he learns. I still think he is a ways off. If he doesnt learn to adjust. He could be a Corey Patterson. Middling power will almost be a hinderance. It is one thing to be hyper aggressive when you have Soriano-esque tools. Its another when you don't have Those tools. While Felix looks to be a good athlete. I havent seen any evidence that he has Soriano level power or speed.

Way off topic, but I was wondering if anyone had been to Wrigley this month and seen a scorecard magazine article about DeRosa. A buddy of mine wrote it but hadn't seen it published yet. (He thought it was supposed to be in this month's issue sold at the park.) And if so, any good? I'll be looking for it when I go to a game later in the month. Thanks.

"Havana, NL, 2024-2025"... LOL!

Re: Pie... To be fair, a Jacque Jones-type player who has a cannon is nothing to scoff, but I think I agree with aaronb... plus I think he's overhyped.

AZ Phil:
...And as he learns MLB pitchers, he should be able to gradually move up in the order to 4-5-6. And of course nobody on the roster can play CF like he can...

Middle of the order? Geesh... I hope so, but I doubt it.

Hope this isn't a double-post, but if you haven't read the last Rockies blog entry on our very own MVN.com about obnoxious Cub fans, it's pretty amusing:

http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies/2007/08/12/the-bla...

I see our own Real Neal made his presence known. :)

RYNOX: Remember, with regard to Felix Pie eventually moving up in the batting order, I'm talking four or five YEARS from now, not four or five weeks. He's only 22.

RYNOX: It's like that in Phoenix, too. Jerry Colangelo desperately wanted the D'backs in the N. L. so that long-time Cubs, Giants, and Dodgers fans would buy tickets to the D'backs games and come out and cheer for their teams, and then when they do, the Phoenix media whines about it.

Boo-hoo.

Bunch of babies.

And Diamondbacks fans have to be told when to cheer and what to cheer. But us Cubs fans just drown them out... "Here we go, Cubbies, here we go!" That REALLY pisses 'em off. They can't stand to see and hear REAL baseball fans cheer for their team.

Yeah, I know the guy who wrote that column over the Rockies site. He did say it was pretty bad. But, hey, sell out your stadium and there won't be as many Cub fans there.

I mean, I guess it's a different POV for us. It'd sure piss me off to be cheering for the other team and have 50 guys from the Wrigley Field RF bleachers sitting around me in my own stadium.

"What’s more, the jackass in the bear suit actually took a swipe at my Rockies cap when I was walking to the bathroom."

Now that's funny.

This from a city who's most famous fan wears no clothes and a barrell over his body.

I know, I would rather have him than Ronnie Woo Woo too.

it's like a TCR call to arms whenever another MVN site bad mouths the Cubs...

you guys rule...

Rob,

Its cause we from the streets SON!

Actually i think Corey Patterson is more talented than Felix Pie. I wouldnt be shocked if Patterson ends up with better career numbers.

I think Pie's coachability is what is supposed to seperate him from CP.

Wow...if Pie can't do better than CPat's .258/.298/.414, he's in a lot of trouble...the Cubs are in trouble if that's the case.

DB, I said it on another blog at the time of Jack Jones' signing. Take away Patterson's awful 2005 season. And what you have is basically mirror image players (Kpatt/Jack Jones) both guys have a little speed and middling power. Hit from the left side. Patterson had a little bit more athletic upside. That fact that Pie is latin will be the difference. Because a coaching staff cannot control Jones or Patterson like they can control Felix Pie (according to Gary Sheffield)

WOW! Sheffield is a absolute loudmouth jackass.

I hope that Pie turns out to be a better version of Jack and CPat. Both are serviceable players, but we need the upgraded model.

I don't see Jones and Patterson as very similar. Patterson has way more speed and base-stealing ability than Jones and is way more athletic (much better fielder as well). Jones has exhibited more power. They both have weak arms and hit from the left side, that's about it.

They both have weak arms

Korey has a weak arm?

I think Corey is the superior athlete to Jack Jones. He sure looks alot more UH..... gracefuller..... or something

I always thought Patterson's arm was pretty weak...not as weak as JJ's. Patterson's throwing motion may have been part of it...very mechanical.

Korey ≠ weak arm

I always thought Patterson’s arm was pretty weak…not as weak as JJ’s. Patterson’s throwing motion may have been part of it…very mechanical.

Hmm... I have always thought that Patterson had a plus arm. Not necessarily Jeff Franceour like, but still quite good. And most scouting reports would say the same thing.

Perhaps not. Perhaps my eyes deceived me. I don't recall him throwing too many guys out, but I was probably blinded by the fact that he sucks.

CPat:
.258/.298/.414, 91 career HR's, 318 RBI's, 163/202 SB's (81%) 3015 AB's

Jacque:
.279/.328/.455, 162 HR's, 596 RBI's, 80/123 SB's 65% 4334 AB's

Jacque is a much better all around player than Corey. Worse arm and speed, better hitter, more power.

never got the knock on Corey's arm, he easily could have played RF with nothing worse than an average arm for that position, in center it was definitely a plus. I recall him throwing a bullet to nail a guy from third from the warning track in right center of Wrigley and he could easily make the throw from CF over the mound to home.

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