Game 120 Thread / Reds @ Cubs (3 of 3)

Game Chat Bobby Livingston vs. Jason Marquis Lineups:
Hamilton CF Theriot SS
Keppinger SS DeRosa 2B
Griffey Jr. RF Lee 1B
Phillips 2B Ramirez 3B
>Dunn LF Fox RF Hatteberg 1B Murton LF Valentin C Jones CF Encarnacion 3B Hill C Livingston P Marquis P Hide the women and children if the Cubs lose this and get swept by the Reds at home. A loss also means the Cubs will be back at .500.


I actually really like this lineup.

I have wanted DeRosa to bat 2nd all year.

This would actually be lineup for the rest of year, with Soriano replacing Fox, Murton moving to RF.

I wanted Derosa 2nd for a while as well.

However, since the calendar turned to August, he's working a 250/316/288.

However, since the calendar turned to August, he’s working a 250/316/288.


BUT... I am sure the he is excited to hit in front of Lee and A-Ram.

I'm hoping Hill being in the lineup will cause all our batters to hit HRs. I also like our lineup though, outside of the aforementioned Hill. Today would be a good time, by the way, for Marquis to prove he can hit again. He has a 19 OPS+ this year, which is pretty horrific for a supposedly good hitting pitcher.

derosa's power outage has been really disappointing compared to earlier in the year.

he's still hitting at least...and he can use those gloves.

I cant wait until Hank White comes back. That way we can pencil a shitty catcher in the lineup every day. Hank cant hit a lick. Therefore we will play better as a team.

I still didn't get an answer to my question last night:

After showing Bobby Howry that he was not going to get a high fastball past Hamilton, why did he throw another?

Next watch as I beat a dead horse:

Great job Hendry for letting the Reds get Hamilton for nothing. I wouldn't even be mad if we got a decent but not great minor leaguer for him. But I can't understand for the life of me why you go out of your way to help a divisional rival. Sure Dave, risk/reward, but we were the catalyst. There was no reason to help them WHATSOEVER!

Great job Hendry for letting the Reds get Hamilton for nothing.

meanwhile our can't-miss 'five tool guy' and his .220 batting average sits on the bench while our right fielder showcases in center.

There was no reason to screw them over either, this isn't the Red Sox/Yankees. As far as I can tell, it hasn't helped the Reds one bit actually.

As a matter of fact, we should have picked Hamilton and then if we couldn't keep him on the roster, return him! This way he stays out of our division!

And there was no question that this kid can play baseball. The question was whether or not he could exorcize his drug demons. Everybody knew this kid has mad skills.

and Rob, fine. Maybe there was no reason to screw them over. But there was no reason TO HELP!!!!!!!! We didn't have to draft him. We could have just passed.

The question was whether or not he could exorcize his drug demons. Everybody knew this kid has mad skills.

That wasn't the only question. He has only played 23 games above A ball, and those 23 games he had some pretty poor numbers. The bigger question was whether or not he could justify a spot in the bigs all year.

kind of a blessing in disguise for th Reds actually that they..

a) sucked and didn't need the roster spot
b) Hamilton spent most of the year on the DL

those 23 games were not due to poor play. His poor play was due to his drug and alcohol problems. The question was, could he get his head on straight and play the way he knew how to.

And again, maybe Hendry took the call and laughed. And thought,
"Silly Reds! Do they really want that loser?" but still should have NOT picked him and see if it got to the Reds pick. We did not need to be involved in this transaction.

Who was the guy Len was interviewing before the game? I believe his name was Jimmy, and he puts the baseball,and the rosin bag on the mound before the game.

had — August 16, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
As a matter of fact, we should have picked Hamilton and then if we couldn’t keep him on the roster, return him! This way he stays out of our division!


CHAD: If the Cubs had drafted Josh Hamilton and then subsequently decided not to keep him, the Cubs could either trade him (and his new team would have to keep him on their 25-man roster for the entire season, as the Reds are doing), or else he would have to be placed on Outright Waivers before being offered back to TB, and the Reds could have gotten him by claiming him off Outright Waivers from the Cubs (unless an N. L. club with a worse record than the Reds also put in a claim).

Obviously the Cubs had sub-zero interest in Josh Hamilton on Rule 5 Draft day, or else they could have just as easily brought him to Spring Training for a looksee, and then if they didn't like what they saw, or if they believed he wasn't ready for Prime Time, or if they didn't have room for him on their 25-man roster, then they could have traded him to CIN (or someplace else).

(DeRosa has no history of power at any level. Just doubles power.)

I'm fascinated by Fox batting fifth, ahead of Murton. I'm not complaining, I just find it remarkable that in Piniella's eyes, Fox is better than Murton, period. And it's not even close, since Murton would normally get some veteran favoritism.

I watched Fox run to first on a grounder yesterday and he seemed to have about Murton's speed. He's probably got as good a glove, it couldn't be much worse. I wonder if Fox and/or Murton realize what's at stake these next few days.

DLee needs a rest.

And not just one game--maybe a few. I think--just my opinion--that his mental approach is really suffering.

Last night's game, 3rd inning, DLee up with 2 on base. He watches 2 fastballs right down the middle, then gets K'd on a nasty pitch that starts outside and curls back over the plate at the last nanosecond.

That last pitch notwithstanding, DLee has to swing. I tell my 3rd and 4th hitters on my Little League team that they're not up there to get a walk, they're up there to drive in runs. If there are runners on base, and they can get to the pitch, swing.

Then, next AB, bases empty, DLee swings at the FIRST pitch and grounds out weakly.

I love DLee, but something is wrong.

I heard when he drafted Hamilton, that Hendry did it as a "favor" for the Reds with the intention to trade him right to the Reds.

The reason for being so nice I don't know.

nice to see marquis attempt to shut them down after a big inning

how do you score 4 and then suck this bad in the bottom?

can i say how about a repeat of last nite.

way to give it all back ,another crappy

pitching performance, but hey the hitting

is better.

"how do you score 4 and then suck this bad in the bottom?"

You are the Chicago Cubs

Talk about your run-of-the-mill regression to the just continues.

Slip sliding away

I'm breathlessly awaiting for this game to start.

Yeah... right.

"I didn't think it was physically possible for someone to suck and blow at the same time" Bart Simpson on Koyie Hill

Since, in order to discuss Matt Murton's obvious difficulty handling balls after they fall for hits his way, we must document them, please take a look at the (1)replay of the Valentin "double" in the 3rd today. And (2) that noted speedster Jeff Conine scoring from first without a play....indeed without the ball ever getting back to the infield.... in the 6th inning yesterday. It took Murton an interminable 11 seconds to run to the wall and deliver the ball to the cutoff man.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it worrisome that Murton's fielding, much like Felix Pie's hitting, has stopped improving. Pie, btw, is nothing if not consistent. He was hitting ~ .220 befor going down to Iowa and he's 4/18 (.222) since coming back.

Pie doesn't swing. He studies the pitch, then slaps at the ball when it's too late to hit it.

As soon as he starts swinging, we can schedule the first hitting lesson.

wow...koyie hill redefines suck.

You're telling me there's REALLY no reason Geovany Soto couldn't hit 50-75 points above what we're getting from K. Hill, while providing more or less the same defense out there? I think the Cubs are shooting themselves in the foot leaving a slugging Soto in AAA.

but Felix Pie's numbers were so good in Iowa, I don't get how he could struggle in the majors. If only they had scouting reports for those kids.

And Koyie Hill makes pitchers throw faster, that's why he stays.

"Pie doesn’t swing. He studies the pitch, then slaps at the ball when it’s too late to hit it."

Maybe its time to clean house of all the geniuses down in the minor league system who turn "5-tool players" into crap (Kpat, Kpie) and wouldn't know legitimate MLB players (Theriot) if it hit them in the face.

IMO, I hope and pray that the new owners hire a really respected GM with a proven track record of REPEATED success running a MLB org.

I mean STEALING one of the stallworths in the industry by offering them a boatload of money, and the chance to be a Chicago icon, should their plan for the Cubs come to fruition.

And Koyie Hill makes pitchers throw faster, that’s why he stays.

Cute, Rob.

At the risk of jinxing things, I should point out that the other team has scored in exactly one inning today.

It must be because the guys who are pitching today, Marquis and Eyre, are better than the guys who pitched yesterday.

The catcher is quarterback of the defense. I expected a better, more professional effort on the defensive side today and so far we're getting it.

And the best part of Koyie Hill is that when he's one for four, his BA goes up!

DeRosa in the #2 slot -- that seems to work.

The bats are back -- if DLee wakes up, it should be a wild weekend at Wrigley.

Cute, Rob.

Yea... I think Rob is cute too.

What did Marquis register on the gun today? 96? 98? I missed it...

The catcher is quarterback of the defense. I expected a better, more professional effort on the defensive side today and so far we’re getting it.

I saw how Koyie willed Derrek to make that leaping catch in the 5th, that was awesome. Lee would have never made that play with Kendall catching.

Hey, give credit where credit is due. Hill called for Marquis to walk the pitcher when he was down 0-2.

Seriously, did someone put up a bounty on the dumbest statement to be posted on TCR? VA Phil is blowing us all away over the last few weeks.

I don't think Rob was being cute, I think he was being coy....or is it koyie.

What did Marquis register on the gun today? 96? 98? I missed it…

Rob... you missed it because Marquis was throwing so hard!!!

Dang. Through today's game, Jones is now .364/.420/.514/.934 since the break.

hey everybody.....let's not ignore the fact that the offense absolutely lit up what is admittedly a poor pitching staff.....that's what i was most concerned about for the rest of the year. the pitchers aren't going to be awesome every day. smile!

big series this weekend......go reds go (harang against the brewers on sunday).

get those birds.

Good thing K. Hill was catching today. The Cubs would have never won today without him.

Seriously, did someone put up a bounty on the dumbest statement to be posted on TCR? VA Phil is blowing us all away over the last few weeks.

Careful who you call dumb. I got this from Piniella, you know. He mentioned "16 and 8" a week or so ago, basically explaining why Hill was on the team. Do you know the significance of 16-8? It's 17-8 today.

I don't like guys hitting .150 either. I was just explaining why Hill is on the team and sometimes gets in games. It's because Piniella and Hendry are as dumb as I am.

Look on the bright side. Marquis and his phenom level stuff is here for 2 more seasons. So we got that going for us.

FWIW, I wish we had Barrett back

I got this from Piniella, you know.

Funny... because Hill has now played in 3 a games in August. LouPa must think really highly of him.

When Patterson came up, I was excited, but my friend said he was Ty Griffin all over again. Now I'm beginning to think that about Pie.

"FWIW, I wish we had Barrett back."

You and Jake Peavy are the only ones who feel that way.

Pagan says he had been hurting for 2 months...

From Rob's link:

One person who has helped in the adjustment department is new Cubs catcher Jason Kendall. Wuertz said the veteran seems to know how to get the pitchers back on track.

"It's nice having a guy like that who can see something right away," Wuertz said. "He makes you feel comfortable out there, and he takes a lot of pride in that."

Hmmm... VA Phil's opinion? Or Wuertz's opinions?

its absolutely f'n obsurd to say a catcher can make a pitcher throw harder right outta the box.

...that somehow for some reason a pitcher wont go 100% because they dont trust the guy behind the plate or whatever.

anyway you wanna mix it up, kendall actually catching the ball isn't much of an issue.

now if he could only throw the damn ball...that's what scares me. not his recieving skills, calling skills, or how many singles/walks he can rack up.

VA Phil's comments regarding the catcher position may be a bit extreme, but there's definitely something to the notion that a catcher can make a pitcher more/less comfortable on the mound thus affecting his performance.

I didn't pitch above HS ball (Wes, care to chime in on this topic?), but I definitely found certain catchers called better games/blocked more pitches/inspired more confidence in general than others. Yes, the pitcher can shake a catcher off, but when you're both in synch, you feel much more relaxed on the mound. When you're not in synch with your catcher, it's somewhat frustrating, and I think it can definitely affect your performance.

None of this is earth-shattering news to anyone who's ever pitched before, and I have no idea how it applies to Kendall or Hill specifically, but it's not exactly crazy to think that catchers can have an impact on a pitcher's performance. (Throwing harder, I'm not so sure).

Do pitchers feel more comfortable with certain catchers? I don't doubt it.

How big a difference is it over the course of a season? Mostly negligible.

Thinking Koyie Hill is a better defensive catcher/game-caller than Kendall? ridiculous...

I think Steve Carlton would prove to be the exception to that statement.

Marquis and Lilly, by the way, have both pitched the best with Barrett behind the plate. So, this proves that Barrett is the best defensive catcher on the team.

Johann... I believe we could Rich Hill to that list, right?

Nope, Hill has slightly better numbers with Koyie behind the plate. Of course, that's only 3 games and his #s were great with Barrett behind the plate. You can add Sean Marshall to that list though.

So basically, except for Zambrano, everyone has done overall better with Barrett behind the plate. I conclude that Barrett is a great defensive catcher and all our pitching issues have arisen from getting rid of him.

Eric Patterson -

I just hope he doesn't become another Corey, including theat smile on his way back to the dugout after each strikeout.

No reason to believe players won't excel unti you seem them with at least 600 major league at bats.

*I mean STEALING one of the stallworths [sic] in the industry by offering them a boatload of money, and the chance to be a Chicago icon, should their plan for the Cubs come to fruition.*

Yeah, that worked so well for Dallas Green, didn't it? Unless I missed the statue of him last time I was at Clark & Addison.

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  • Check out John Arguello at Cubs Den for great analysis & photos from Cubs AZ Instructs


    Arizona Phil 8 hours 19 min ago view
  • soler + hammel for mike trout is pretty much a sure thing. *nods*

    crunch 13 hours 37 min ago view
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    Somebody give Soler some smelling salts - yeesh

    Eric S 13 hours 38 min ago view
  • that runner scores on a single...

    The E-Man 13 hours 49 min ago view
  • So where do you think Soler will be traded to this off season?

    jacos 13 hours 51 min ago view
  • And right on cue he throws to third with no chance to get runner on 2nd so the batter takes 2nd easily. How long has he been playing baseball??

    The E-Man 13 hours 51 min ago view
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    The E-Man 13 hours 59 min ago view
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    JoePepitone 14 hours 12 min ago view
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    crunch 14 hours 45 min ago view
  • ...and contreras takes one off the hand and he's in obvious pain. sigh.

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    ...and he's batting in the cubs half of the following inning. sweet.

    crunch 14 hours 49 min ago view
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    crunch 15 hours 1 min ago view
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    Jackstraw 15 hours 20 min ago view
  • The always combustible Jason Hammel

    jacos 15 hours 40 min ago view
  • Hammel :(

    Charlie 15 hours 41 min ago view
  • That was fun.

    Charlie 18 hours 41 min ago view
  • "home field advantage through the playoffs?"

    Except for the away games.

    VirginiaPhil 18 hours 53 min ago view