Game 122 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs (2 of 4)

Game Chat : BR Preview : Press Notes Anthony Reyes vs. Sean Marshall Lineups:
Eckstein SS Theriot SS
Taguchi CF Jones CF
Pujols 1B Lee 1B
Encarnacion RF Ramirez 3B
Rolen 3B Ward RF
Ludwick LF DeRosa 2B
Molina C Murton LF
Reyes P Kendall C
Ryan 2B Marshall P
Possible chance of rain, you can check out the live webcam of conditions outside the park if you wish. (Thanks to reader cubswinthepennant for that link)

Comments

I think the Cubs' goal this weekend should be to force LaRussa to abandon the pitcher-in-the-8th-spot experiment. Of course, best way to do that is a sweep. :=)

Cubs have won 6 of 7 versus the Cards....

Press notes fun...

Cubs are 29-20 since June 23rd, best in NL Central
Brewers 20-29, tied for worst in the Central with Pirates

Cubs still have best record in NL since June 3rd, 40-28. Yanks and Mariners have better records in the AL though.

Mets & Cubs only teams in NL with 3 10-game winners.

Cubs have given up 32 unearned runs, 2nd fewest in the NL behind the Nats (?).

and by far the best note:
Cubs have drawn 57 walks this month, 6th most in the NL.

Wow, 6th, whew, real accomplishment there. I guess it is when your 2nd worst in the league in drawing walks (at least they were, not sure if they picked it up since last time I checked).

3.90 P/PA this month, 3rd most in the NL btw.

We need to hit the ball to LF today with no body there for them it should be an automatic triple, of course the same thing could be said if the cards hit one to Ward.

We are in a delay.

3:30 Central time start now.

We need to hit the ball to LF today with no body there for them it should be an automatic triple, of course the same thing could be said if the cards hit one to Ward.

Hey, Tony's batting the pitcher 8th, don't question his superior mind powers.

from Brewcrewball.com

"Side notes: I've had to delete a few diaries in the last 24 hours. If you have a quick question, that's what all these other threads are for. You may think you're clever by figuring out a way around the 300-character minimum, but really you're just annoying the rest of us. Also, if you are a fan of another team here to trash talk us, don't bother. You'll doubtless have more fun if you just get offline and go kick your dog. Posting on this site is a privilege, not a right, and I don't hesitate to revoke that privilege."

I can't imagine who they are talking about.

Sopcast supposedly has the game today although right now it's showing Tigers/Yanks. Hopefully that's just because of the delay.

++ Cubs in the MLB top 100 hitters in August
** would be if he had more official AB's

Theriot++ .328 .352 .403 // 0.755
Jones++ .426 .462 .721 // 1.183
Lee .230
Ramirez** ..344 .462 .719 // 1.181
Ward .111
DeRosa++ .316 .371 .368 // 0.739
Murton++ .313 .365 .542 // 0.907
Kendall++ .348 .464 .543 // 1.007

rats, my post went to moderation

I think it was all the weird characters, you should be good.

I still see umbrellas.

Can't a reader who lives near Wrigleyville run out there and hold up a big sign giving props to TCR?

Now they are saying 4pm start

Tarp coming off...Marshall stretching

Expect 3:50 pm start

Can’t a reader who lives near Wrigleyville run out there and hold up a big sign giving props to TCR?

That would be so awesome!!!!

Free Cubs DVD set to the first person who's willing to do it for a half-hour!! And I'm serious. Make the sign HUGE!!!

I don't see umbrellas anymore...

and if someone actually does take me up on it, give me a heads up so I'm sure to grab a screen capture of it.

WF scoreboard says 3:55 pm start

Cool -- Fox Broadcast starting. I was starting to have Cubs blueballs.

woot Derrek!!

woot Daryle!

Grand salami!!!

We don't get a lot of fans from other teams coming here and stirring up sh^@, and there's plenty of times this season when the Cubs have scuffled and we could have been deluged. Why act bush and cause trouble at other sites? Let's enjoy the team's success with a little class.

Petey... you don't know chad very well, do you? :)

regarding post #10

Ironically, through six innings, DLEE (3/3) and DWARD (grand slam HR) have all four Cub hits.

I don't see umbrellas, they say when/if the game is going to start up again?

tarp being removed now...

WF scoreboard says restart at 7:15 pm

Feck - 3R HR for the Brewers.

Frickin FOX broke away unless your in Chicago or St. Louis

updates appreciated...

they broke away for freakin' Cops.

Piggy with the K!!! One pitch, I love it!!!

CUBS WIN, CUBS WIN, CUBS WIN

Cubs take first two on a bare minimum amount of offense, and DLee back on track (or so it would appear). Gotta love it.

DLee back on track (or so it would appear).

I think so. The "hole" that had developed in DLEE's swing, if you can call it that, was on pitches low and on the outside corner. But if you look at the Gameday pitch charts today, that's where they were pitching him and he was nailing them.

It wasn't even a hole in the swing as much as he was taking a ton of strikes down and away.

CWTP, I would identify the hole in Lee's swing as waist-high, middle in.

He's been handling outside pitches with great efficiency all season.

You can't be hitting .310-.320 and be missing inside pitches and outside pitches.

I think Brenly might be responsible for the report that pitchers have been hammering the outside corner against. He's a right-handed power hitter. What else would they be hammering?

The problem is, when they make a mistake inside, he doesn't hit it.

Oh, and Dempster clearly can't close, right? We obviously need Howry in there...

Still, awesome game and good showing from Marshall, even if Lou was an idiot for taking him out with such a low pitch count. We need our bullpen rested with the amount of games in a row we have.

Jenkins with a 3-run dinger in the 6th. Brewers up 6-1.

It wasn’t even a hole in the swing as much as he was taking a ton of strikes down and away.

True perhaps, he was getting behind in the counts. But I think he was taking them because he couldn't reach them. Ron Santo mentioned that DLEE was working on a swing problem the coaches identified. He takes an open stance at the plate, but wasn't squaring back up when he swung like he normally does. He was open when he started his swing and still open when he finished. That will make pitches low and away more difficult to put wood on.

http://inside-edge.com/teams/cubs/reports/h9.htm

Lee's mid-season Report Card, well hit avg. of swings
Inside: B+
Middle (Vertical): B-
Outside: C+
Up: C+
Middle (Horizontal): C+
Down: B-

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerHotZone?ca...
Up and away are his trouble zones

btw...

Piggy!!!!

and Dempster with another 1-2-3 inning..woot

Dempster's ERA minus the Mets: 1.58
vs Mets: 38.63

how did pignatello throw one pitch and get a strikeout, why was howry pulled?

I'm not sure what to make of the links in #41. They are current only to July 9.

DLee's slump started in the middle of the Mets series. From then til this morning, he went 8/49 (.162) and it was noted that he was swinging differently. He wasn't squaring up his shoulders.

why was howry pulled?

On the post game interview, Lou said the rain delay made it unwise to trot Howry back out there.

rokfish — August 18, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
how did pignatello throw one pitch and get a strikeout, why was howry pulled?

He came in after the 2nd rain delay. was already a 1-2 count on batter

thanx cwtp ,if the kids wouldnt have jacked with dvr i would have known by watching
thanx again

why was howry pulled?

btw Batter was Duncan

I didnt hear postgame seemed to make sense he made the change for the lefty, lefty matchup

rokfish,
If you dont live in Chicago or st louis you probably didnt get to see the end of the game. So maybe those kids didnt screw with the dvr... Blame FOX

yeah, Inside Edge is just from the first half, exactly like I mentioned.

I think the Fox Sports are for the whole season.

#23 PeteyPA: We don’t get a lot of fans from other teams coming here and stirring up sh^@...

Actually, I've seen this happen just a few times. Usually when this happens, Chad turns from his ceaseless arguing with fellow TCR posters and unleashes a blistering blitzkreig upon the poor f***, and we hear no more from him. It's kind of a public service.

Samardzija with seven strikeouts in five innings tonight for Tennessee (AA). He's 3-0. (Did give up 3 HRs).

Tyler Colvin doing a fine job in AA after all. Hitting .296. Sixth AA HR tonight, 13th overall this season.

And Nate Spears is hitting .316 after 76 at bats in AA.

Hey, maybe the Cubs "luck" has really changed.

Can you Name these Two starting National League shortstops

player A 468AB's .278 .341 .370 .711 65R 41RBI 13SB 6CS 2007 Salary: $13,730,196

player B 389AB's .290 .351 .375 .727 67R 38RBI 22SB 4CS 2007 Salary: $390,000

Well, and not just that CWTB, but for those that like zone rating, Furcal and Theriot have the same ZR. Also, here are Theriot's stats batting leadoff:

.324 AVG .357 OBP .457 SLG .814 OPS

I'd like to see him walk more, but other then that great numbers and a big part of the Cub resurgence.

and how much does theriot make

minumum?

Well, per CWTB's numbers, $390,000.

Its all about best bang for the dollar behind your superstars.

Before we were paying 2-3 million or more for the Neifi's and Macias of the world to give us below average production and now we are getting better than average production from guys being paid the league minium in most cases.

I'll go out on a limb and predict that Zambrano plunks someone tomorrow and the benches will clear...

Just stumbled across an article profiling Rich Hill's fastball and curveball from a physics geek perspective.

/axiomata sive leges motus

Was at a wedding. Just got back. Followed the game from my cell phone. Nice to see that we wake up tomorrow in first place again.

Also Sabercheck of the day:

"I’d like to see him walk more,"

Why? So his average will go down as well as his slugging and rbis?

DFA Ward!

Hank White update from Iowa:

0-3, 1 K (and 1 SB against him and RWells)

in contrast:

G Soto 3-4, 1 double, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 1 K

(sign me up for the rescue Geovany club)

Soto's Iowa line (yr to date)

.357/.426/.640/1.067

I wonder what that will translate to at the next level. Sure seems to deserve a shot based on his Iowa season. He'll be 25 next January.

I know why he's still at Iowa, I'll wait 2 more weeks so they can keep Koyie Hill. I sure wish Kendall could throw out a basestealer once in awhile though.

also vs SD last night the Astros get two key injuries.

Oswald--strained left oblique. Pulled after 4.2 IP (so he didn't qualify for a win, which went to the first reliever)

C Lee-- strained hip flexor, sliding to break up a DP

At this point I'm reading that both are day to day but these are injuries best judged a day or two later.

Probably won't impact us much unless either goes on the DL (we do play the Astros at WF in 2 weeks, after the Brewer series)

Damn you Ryan Dempster!

I just checked the web cam people are line up outside Wrigley box office for tickets for tonite.

Awesome

WSCR/George Offman said this am that Brandon Webb will go Wednesday vs Brewers, therefore missing the Cub series

I try not to put much stock into the pitching matchups, but it's Kip v. Z. Sweet!

cubster:
WSCR/George Offman said this am that Brandon Webb will go Wednesday vs Brewers, therefore missing the Cub series

Really excited to hear that, but... wait... the last time they played the DBacks, Webb was the only pitcher the Cubs could beat. =(

Looks like the old Jason Kendall is back.

Hitting .291 with a .404 OBP, 13 RBI, 12 BB, 7 SO's in 79 AB's for the Cubs.

Nice to see Kendall contributing with the bat, but his throws to 2nd are painful to watch - kind of like watching someone trying to skip pebbles on the surface of a lake.

"...go out on a limb and predict that Zambrano plunks someone tomorrow and the benches will clear…"

I sure hope not - that's the kind of crap that LaRussa loves to get his club fired up - let sleeping dogs lie at this point.

I'm glad Kendall is hitting, but has he thrown anyone out yet? Still, he's not Barrett, so no complaints here.

Also, regarding the bizarre Chad posts lately about his trolling the Brewer sites and actually bragging about them.

I would suggest everyone crawl over to that site and apologize on behalf of normal people. He doesn't represent the Cubs nation (except for those types who toss f-bombs at JJ, maybe).

Who has time for that shit, anyway?

A few TCR veterans scoffed last week when I suggested that a catcher's defensive contributions might go beyond blocking pitches in the dirt and throwing runners out: that catchers might actually call different games. Rob thought that was funny. Neal thought it was dumb. "A pitcher throws what he wants to throw," etc., etc.

All I was really saying is that K. Hill asks for a higher percentage of fastballs than Barrett did or Kendall does. It's either true or it isn't. If it's true, you can draw your own conclusions about the effect it might have on a given half inning.

Here's some data. It's a tiny data sample. I'll collect more data if I get a lot of encouragement from Rob and Neal.

Thursday, Hill catching:

Pignatiello 13 fastballs, 5 offspeed
Dempster 10 fastballs, 4 offspeed

Friday, Kendall catching:
Dempster 4 fastballs, 5 offspeed

Saturday, Kendall catching:
Dempster 4 fastballs, 8 offspeed (including the last seven pitches thrown)

The Pignatiello ratio is interesting. Some catchers would take one look at Piggy's 86-mph "heater" and say, Okay, we'll show him that once in a while, but never in the strike zone. Hill is not one of those catchers.

Kendall's thrown out a guy or two over the last week.

actually what I though was funny was that you suggested that Ryan Dempster was throwing harder because Koyie Hil caught him once or twice.

"All I was really saying is that K. Hill..."

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaHHHH!!!!

just cuz one finds a link between 2 stats doesnt mean that one event caused the other event.

we can blame clouds on historic events if we find enough cloudy days that coincide with historic events. doesnt mean the clouds caused it.

Next you're going to be telling us the goat curse isn't real...

Phil Rogers is upset about the Z signing:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnis...

He should have saved some ink and paper and said He doesnt like the deal because it means he cant write Arod or Santana to the Cubs rumor columns, instead of comparing him to guys like Denny Neagle, Mike Hampton, and Kei Igawa.

Va Phil,

For your catchers calling different games theory to hold water you to look at controlling your varibles. Hill had Dempster throwing fastballs Thursday because we were up 8 runs and the last thing you wanted were walks. In his last 2 outings we were up a combined 3 runs and the last thing you want is homer so Kendall called a variety of pitches to keeping the Cardinals from sitting on something.

Yeah...Big Z walks, and they replace him with Samardninja? Kip Wells? Juan Mateo? Randy Martz?

He is the Cubs best pitcher. He is 26. If any player gets significantly hurt, it looks bad if he's been signed to a big contract.
It's worth the risk

We got Z pretty cheap considering his age and best years still ahead of him.

hell, why dont we draw the conclusion that k.hill's lack of defensive skills cause him to call more fastballs cuz he can't catch the offspeed stuff well?

i mean, the data supports it.

*insert 3 paragraph rant about how he shouldnt be a mlb catcher if he cant handle the offspeed stuff*

right now the cream of the FA pitching crop is jake f'n westbrook...or an outside shot of getting schilling/clemens/maddux/glavine and the AARP hotel/travel savings the team would pick up as a perk for hiring them.

First there was Nostradamus
then, Edgar Cayce

Now...Phil Rogers

hmmmm.....we can find many a prediction from PR to add to this website:

http://rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml

Fun fact re: Cubs & Cards so far this season...

Their difference in the standings is their head-to-head record. The Cubs (63-59) are 4 games ahead of the Cards (58-62). They've played 10 games so far this season, with the Cubs wining 7 of them.

If you take those 10 games off the books, the Cubs are 56-56, and the Cards are 55-55.

Amazing. Remember when we couldn't beat the Cards to save our lives?

"In at least one year, probably two, Zambrano will make fewer than 25 starts, perhaps none at all. That's the reality about injuries and pitchers with long-term contracts."

gee phil rogers...how about giving us the date/years, too?

boo f'n hoo.

evidently the main problem with Z signing is he's also Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Denny Neagle, Darren Dreifort, Wilson Alvarez, Alex Fernandez, Chan Ho Park, Carl Pavano, Ben Sheets, Pedro Martinez, Bartolo Colon and a few other players.

this is getting very complicated. i seriously thought carlos zambrano was carlos zambrano.

Ah. Phil Rogers, reporting the best news he can invent.

/nothing to see here

"Kendall’s thrown out a guy or two over the last week..."

Actually, I was at the Reds game where he "threw out" a strayed Jr.

That was baserunner #2 for the Cubs. Although Wes likes to say its mostly the pitcher's fault.

He DID throw out another runner in the same game, but Theriot dropped the ball.

IF the team is lucky enough to reach the post-season, we better hope that the pitchers can shut things down with RISP.

Rogers sure knows his baseball. He even called Barry Bonds "Bobby Bonds" in the Whispers section of that column.

Game ppd - those of us in the area, there is no way this game is played tonight, is there?

"Also, regarding the bizarre Chad posts lately about his trolling the Brewer sites and actually bragging about them.

I would suggest everyone crawl over to that site and apologize on behalf of normal people. He doesn’t represent the Cubs nation (except for those types who toss f-bombs at JJ, maybe). "

You have got to be kidding, right? Appologize for some trash talk?

Look Old And Blue, back in your day, people didn't engage in such acts. But this calendar says 2007 and that is the era we live in. Besides, I never mentioned this site or anything else that would indicate that I was speaking for a group. I speak only for myself cause I know there are too many weak people like you the are afraid to make a wave. Cause online internet blogging is such a refinded form of public discourse. BLEH!

Oh, and the proplem was not JJ having the "F-bomb" thrown at him, it was the rasicst slurs which were disgusting and unacceptable.

game ppd already?

Cubs have given up the 3rd highest amount of SB's in the NL this year fwiw, lowest CS% in the NL.

It would worry me if we played the Mets in the playoffs, not sure about any other team.

it was mostly harmless trash talking I thought by Chad, although I probably would have waited until the series vs the Brewers. Seems a bit more proper to badmouth a team you're about to play then randomly show up and kick a team that's already been nailed in the nuts.

not ppd yet.

Radar nasty though. And the Clark & Addison Webcam is wet.

Here's a report

Tonight: Periods of rain and thunderstorms. Some of the storms could produce heavy rainfall. Low around 68. Southwest wind around 5 mph becoming calm. Chance of precipitation is 100%.

http://tinyurl.com/2kpx56

but weather predications are about as accurate as Phil Rogers

i didnt even notice ARZ has the best record in the NL...and without r.johnson. (71-53..only 70 game NL winner).

I am curious to see if Sean Gallagher gets his first start in Mid-September when the Cubs take on the Redbirds at New Busch. There is the doubleheader Saturday (because of the game that was postponed when Hancock passed). There isn't a day off and 6 games in 5 days. I know rosters will be expanded, but I am curious to see how Mr. Gallagher does.

"Seems a bit more proper to badmouth a team you’re about to play then randomly show up and kick a team that’s already been nailed in the nuts."

That is when I usually troll but I had to let them know that they coughed up an 8 game lead. Not that they didn't know but that kind of "Cubbery" cannot go without some poking of fun.

Arizona still has a -16 run differential. Incredible.

At least 27-16 in one run games explains it somewhat. The Cards on the other hand have no explanation.

They should be 53-67 by expected win/loss and their one-run record is 10-15.But they're 58-62 with a -46 run differential.

Given that this is a ESPN game and the diffculity in making the game up they will probably try their darndest to play tonight. They really cant have a double header tommrrow because is supposed to be as wet as it was yesterday so the chances of getting two in would seem remote. both teams have the same offdays on 8/27 and 9/10 but on 8/27 is between our west coast trip and the series vs. MIL and 9/10 is Saint Louis last offday before there last 19 games of the season. So in making this game up someone is going to get screwed. My guess would be on a 9/10 makeup because of the expanded rosters at that time can help rest guys better.

All teams with a positive run differential in the NL

Mets +57
Padres +57
Phillies +55
Cubs +48
Rockies +40
Braves +31
Dodgers +8

Brewers teeing off

The Cards on the other hand have no explanation.

They do have a great manager.

There was a terrific TV moment Friday when the WGN cameras caught LaRussa staring at something, and Kasper, playing the straight man, said, What's he staring at? and Brenly said, The Cubs dugout! All game long, apparently, LaRussa and Duncan and the other Cardinal coaches stare at the other team's dugout looking for some hint that a "play" is on.

difference between Cards expected w/l and actual w/l over the last 10 years under the great manager (and I do think he's one of the better ones):

(Using BR.com numbers, previously I used ESPN)

2006: +1
2005: +2
2004: +5
2003: -3
2002: +2
2001: -1
2000: +4
1999: -3
1998: -1
1997: -6
Net Gain: 0 games

2007: +4

Draw your own conclusions...

For fun, Cubs under Baker:
2003: +3
2004: -5
2005: -1
2006: -4

I'd be surprised if the game wasn't called soon -- we are getting the kind of steady, sopping rain that doesn't work well at Wrigley. It hasn't let up since midmorning. Flood warnings in effect for Chicago, etc. -- chance of rain this evening "100 percent" (is that even posbile?).

So when would they make this thing up? If not tomorrow, we both have off days on 8/27 and 9/10, although the 9/10 date is in the middle of road trips for both teams.

tomorrow looks just as bad right? with ESPN on board for today, I think they'll wait this one out until the last possible moment.

Otherwise they're talking about a doubleheader makeup possibility on 8/27 it sounds like where the Cubs would have to fly in from Arizona the day before and going into the Brewers series. That sure would suck.

Cards have a home series before that and go to Houston.

The 10th actually doesn't look too terrible. Cubs are going from Pitt to Houston, a detour to Chicago wouldn't be too big a deal. Cards go from Arizona to Cincy, also sort of on the way although it present the same problems for them that the 27th would for us. Plus doing it on the 10th and if it's a doubleheader, that means 2 double-headers between the teams that week.

Rob,

Here is what Yahoo Weather (which is from weatherchannel.com says about tommrrow:

"Showers and thunderstorms likely - heavy rainfall is possible, especially in the morning. Humid. High 72F. Winds ESE at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 90%. 1 to 2 inches of rain expected."

It sure does sound like there is a better chance of tonight's game being played than tommrrow's.

"All game long, apparently, LaRussa and Duncan and the other Cardinal coaches stare at the other team’s dugout looking for some hint that a “play” is on."

so does almost every other team, only they get another person(s) other than the skipper to do it, usually.

larussa cant give another tired old "the other team is stealing signs" speech without seeing it himself, i guess.

as long as he keeps batting a real batter 9th giving the cubs a free out in the 8th slot it'll work for me. so far i haven't even seen this "advantage" work except for when the pitcher can move the 6/7 guy up with a sac. if molina wasnt hitting #7 as a near automatic out he'd probably pick up a few more IBB.

All game long, apparently, LaRussa and Duncan and the other Cardinal coaches stare at the other team’s dugout looking for some hint that a “play” is on.

Well, most teams do that. What makes LaRussa different is he is absolutely paranoid about not being read by other teams. It's why he wears dark glasses, even for night games. He believes the eyes give away the plays.

I've mentioned it a couple of times before, but if you want to understand how Tony LaRussa manages...and specifically how he manages agaiinst the Cubs, get yourself a copy of "3 Nights in August" by Buzz Bissinger which chronicles LaRussa's strategy almost play by play during a three game series vs the Cubs in 2003.

wooo... 4-5 cin/mil..phillips 2 run homer.

Fuck. Hurricane supposedly coming to the Yucatan Peninsula (although I still don't believe it'll come this way) tomorrow at the latest. Right in the thick of the pennant race.

F Weather.

maybe if Tony wasn't looking into the dugout he'd have remembered that Pujols was still on his bench at the All-Star Game. :)

cin ties.

tying run (Dunn) to 2nd and then to 3rd on wild pitches.

Go ahead Crunch...you're further ahead than me...

just got the game on MLB-EI...woo...lazy sundays.

Reds tie it up

How's the Reds/Brewers game going? Any updates?

its a close contest tied at 3/44.

phil rogers already ruined the end of the game for me giving me the final score and game MVP already. what a jerk.

Johann Santana with 2 hits given up and 14 K's through 7 innings. Sammy Sosa with the only 2 hits off him.

Mike only cares cause of his fantasy team...

bah..hardy solo in the bottom 7th

5-6 cin/mil

Santana has 17 K's going into the 9th.

Mariners 3-0 over WSox bottom of 1st on 2 HRs. Mariners = best team no one is talking about.

112 pitches into the 9th and chance to tie the record (technically could even break it) and Johann doesn't go out.

Aw well...

HA!

CIN takes a 1 run lead on a ground rule double.

Javier Valentin!!! smack~~!! smooch~~!!

Gardenhire is stupid. You owe it to him to atleast let him try to get it. After his statements after the Castillo trade, I wonder how he'll react to it. Of course he could have Gardenhire he had nothing left.

Detroit sure loves this Maybin fella. He has serious speed but doesn't look like ha can face mlb pitching yet and his throw looked a bit wild too.

Holy shit, Johan!

Javier Valentin's nickname should be the I-94 killler because it seems all of his big hits are aganist the Brewers or Cubs.

Maybin did homer off Clemens yesterday, so the statement that he can't hit ML pitching yet, may be a bit premature. That being said, he probably needs some time @ AAA to brew fully. He came right up from AA, where he only had like 70 PAs,

Anybody fancy doing a line for Big Z tonight? I think

7 IP, 3 hits, 4 walks, 1 ER, 10 SO (and a win).

Josh Hamilton, bases loaded, two outs, he owes us a hit...

...not so much

Yep, heard about the Clemens Home Run but he looked pretty outclassed by Bonderman today.

wow...brewers only had 1 loss pre-AS break (according to announcers) when leading into the 8th.

Cubs would be 2 games out of the wild card standings if they had their current record and weren't in first place....fwiw. Nice to know there might be a way to back into the playoffs.

Bonderman?

He meant Wang

Did mean Wang. Apologies.

Detroit sure loves this Maybin fella. He has serious speed but doesn’t look like ha can face mlb pitching yet and his throw looked a bit wild too.

Two hits off Roger Clemens, including a home run, would say otherwise. Don't make a judgment off of a couple at-bats in one game.

Brewers down 7-6 heading into Cincy's half of the ninth.

Maybe. Was my opinion based on what I saw today. Plus, he is only 20 and skipped AAA. I am going to go against your advice, dave, and say he is not ready.

I'm sure he'll be good one day, but if you think Pie has problems, Maybin's strikeout rates in the minors are world class..in a bad way.

Although, if I recall, Pie came up and tatooed a ball in his first or second game off the wall for a triple and we were all ready to anoint him the next hot ML pitching hitter. But we learned that basing the opposite judgment from what mark is saying on a few PAs can be the wrong approach.

Jury is out. Maybin looked bad today. He hit a HR off Clemens. Throw him in the hall of fame. meh?

Very likely that Maybin will be very good in the future. 5 tools etc. Detroit's GM also said that he was the best prospect he had ever seen and apparently refused to trade him straight up for Sori (when Sori was a Nat).

I take the point that a small sample size is inconclusive. But I think having an opinion based on what you see is perfectly acceptable. It may turn out to be wrong but that I guess is the fun of having a discussion.

Maybin may be a HOF.

*rimshot*

Very true.

i just noticed Rickie Weeks is back up...anyone know how his AAA stint went?

Did the brew crew lose?

2 on 2 out in the ninth. 7-6 reds

David Weathers just hit Corey Hart on the BACK of the elbow. Pitch was behind him. 2 on 2 out bottom ninth, Prince up

way outside 2-0

reds win, brews lose. 7-6, final.

3-1

Was there a Prince Fielder implosion?

Brewers lose. Fielder grounds out with runners on first and second.

Woohoo. What did Prince do?

For all practial purposes Maybin skipped AA also as 6 games doesnt count for much.

Awesome. Let's hope we can win tonight (if there is a game). Any update on the likelihood of that?

Didn't we already cover this? :)

Good point chifan. Didn't he hit somthing like 4 home runs and 8 rbi in those six games though?

Bottom of this article has the list of players who cleared waivers. Don't know if someone dug this up yet:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?c...

if tonight gets rained out, i'll assume DH tomorrow....sweet, just what the cubs need before heading out west for a week.

cubs get to miss brandon webb, while the brewers catch him on wednesday. that is an enormous break.

i really wanna watch this game tonight....let's go.

How's the weather looking?

I hear there's a slight chance of 3/44 tonight.

The rain seems to be sliding a couple miles south of Wrigley. They just may get this game in.

He hit a HR off Clemens. Throw him in the hall of fame. meh?

Uhhh... when did I say anything about the HOF? I simply talked about his performance yesterday to point out the ludicrous assertion that he is not ready to hit major league pitching based on what was seen today.

One good game doesn't mean much. And one bad game doesn't mean much either.

I was being facetious and making an absurd comment in order to further enforce the point that the jury is still quite out on this young man. I don't think I would define mark's opinion that he can't hit ML pitching yet as ludicrous, especially when you close your argument the way you do, by upending it.

Why must posters here get so offended when someone disagrees with their baseball analysis?

Why must posters here get so offended when someone disagrees with their baseball analysis?

Who is offended?

Mark,

Your right on the numbers he put up in AA, but it wasnt like he tearing up "A" ball though he had a .879 OPS in Lakeland. I mean those guys he was facing in AA could have been roster filler. For a guy that young putting up the numbers he was putting up in A ball it was questionable to bring him up a level this year yet alone three.

Sorry, I guess I intended to mean "combative."

chifan, what was his full line from A ball?

FYI - I just came in from outside (live one mile from the ballpark) - the ground is soaked, many sidestreets are filling up with water. That outfield could be dicey tonight.

It's classic dave. Copy and paste a comment and make a point that undermines it usually by mischaracterising it. It's pathetic. As I said earlier, it is perfectly acceptable to have an opinion on Maybin (even one based on a small sample size). I don't think the point is ludicrous. You are entitled to disagree, even entitled to point out that it is based on a small sample size, but saying its ludicrous is far too arrogant for my liking.

agreed jordan. Arrogant AND combative.

saying its ludicrous is far too arrogant for my liking.

But saying someone is pathetic isn't arrogant?

But you are right - ludicrous was too strong. I just find it odd to say that Maybin isn't ready for mlb pitching because he didn't look good against Wang (who happens to be really good), even though he had two hits against Clemens yesterday.

But how did I "mischaracterize" what you said? You said that he isn't ready for mlb pitching, and I responded to that. I am not sure how I "mischaracterized" your comment.

Thanks Chifan. Had no idea about his A numbers. Quite a surprising move given that OPS. Very bold to dfa monroe for that. Understand that monroe is having a down year but he was huge for them in the playoffs last year.

And by the way - I wasn't quite clear when I said "ludicrous was too strong." I apologize for saying it was ludicrous. It isn't.

When I first started coming to TCR (early 2003 season), and was much more active in the comments, it was a small community of well-informed baseball fans who welcomed discourse especially when they disagreed. They often disagreed calmly. Then John Hill changed the overall "tone" of the comments, and we've never turned back. Its become much more a pissing match between people who follow baseball much more than they probably should, and I include myself in that group - my fiance jokes about how I can spend hours reading about the cubs in the offseason :)

I would love to hear both you dave, and you mark, discuss this rationally. That's why I read the comments. Even when I disagree, I like to see how people argue their side, when they do it politely, and we all bring our level of understanding of the game up a level.

I don't think anyone can prognosticate in baseball nearly enough to call almost any observation of the game ludicrous. Going back over the comments on this blog over the last four years, you'd see it littered with utterly wrong assertions of why someone else's observation was wrong.

Let's just drop the pissing match all together.

In more interesting news, Carlos, are you going to get hit by a hurricane?

What were Pujols and DLee's minor league numbers?

I thought someone here said the game tonight has already been postponed. Has a late start time been announced? Or did I imagine that?

Ah the best part about the Brewers loss today is that no matter what happens, when we wake up on Tuesday morning, the Cubs will be in first (tied at worst) place!

Fair points Jordan. Agreed.

The best thing about the Brewers loss for me is that they blew a 5 run lead. Gotta hurt.

The Brewers have no pitching. They have Sheets and maybe Gallardo (jury still out). After that, CRAP. Down the line too. Remember when Derrick Turnbow was sporting an era of like 1.something? It's now over 4.

Jordan:
When I first started coming to TCR (early 2003 season), and was much more active in the comments, it was a small community of well-informed baseball fans who welcomed discourse especially when they disagreed...Its become much more a pissing match between people who follow baseball much more than they probably should

Comment of the month.

It is possible to disagree and even correct someone's facts without being an asshole, believe it or not. But, I think people here would rather just act like a bunch of 3rd graders. I blame alcohol dependence.

Look... I know that I get carried away sometimes. And I already apologized to mark for saying his assertion was ridiculous.

Not really sure what else you want.

As for alcohol dependence? If drinking less than five drinks a month is alcohol dependence, I guess you have me figured out.

Jordan,

Upton's line at Lakeland was in 296 AB's was:
304/393/486/879 with 10 HR, 44 RBI, 25 SB, 14 2b and a 83/43 K/BB ratio.

Dave,

Here some interesting lines vs. Clemens

Roger Cedeno 26 AB: 423/531/538/1.070
Geno Petralli 44 AB: 364/440/545/985
Alvin Davis 44 AB: 295/392/591/983

Just because a guy has a good day vs. Clemens doesnt make capable of hitting MLB pitching.

chifan, you mean Maybin, right?

Jordan,

Yeah I got my 20 year old stud hitting prospects mixed up.

Dave, think rynox was kidding and thanks for the apology. Let's forget this discussion and move on to something new.

haha. Thanks for the lines. even with the K's, he has a nice OBP that is 90 points higher than his average. But I think I agree, it seemed premature based on his peripherals.

Very freudian chifan! Thanks for the numbers.

Something new: Cubs offense hasn't been so awesome. I think we just got 4-hit twice by the Cards and still managed a win.

Chad,

The Brewers also have a game on Monday @ ARI so if they win that and we lose the next 2 they will be in first on Tuesday morning.

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