Game 123 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs (3 of 4)

Game Chat Kip Wells vs. Carlos Zambrano Lineups:
Miles 2B Theriot SS
Ankiel RF Jones CF
Pujols 1B Lee 1B
Edmonds CF Ramirez 3B
Duncan LF Ward RF
Rolen 3B DeRosa 2B
Molina C Murton LF
Wells P Kendall C
Ryan SS Zambrano P
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Comments

damn.

why do i feel like that's all we'll see tonight?

i'm not even sure why they're pretending to wait.

Would you trade Hill, Marshall and Pie for Santana?

I think I would.

i definitely would, and i think most everyone would....don't think the twins would take it.

the problem with trading santana for the twins though is that whoever trades for him would need to sign an extension first to give up that kind of package.....but will santana really sign before putting himself on the market for what would unquestionably be the largest pitching contract ever? doubtful.

i think this ends with a couple good but not great prospects being shifted over at next year's deadline. the twins will convince themselves that they can compete with a similar team next year even though they'll have lost torii and they'll be out by the deadline, get scraps for what could have been much more if they had done it this year.

This team is going to need a catcher, and I can't see Kendall coming back or something from a meager FA catcher pool.

That means that Marshall becomes prime trade bait (along with some other assets) for a catcher that can hit .250 and actually throw someone out occasionally.

"Some of the heavy stuff has passed, but a good chance of lingering showers throughout the night. No official word yet from the grounds crew."

This from the "live update" MLB Gameday Audio... which oddly enough, doesn't broadcast 720 AM programming beyond the actual broadcast of the games. So during commercials or rain delays such as this, you just get a live audio feed of the crowd sounds at Wrigley Field (which is actually kinda cool in a way). You can occasionally hear the fans start cheering, the Update Voice said the rain is letting up a bit, but then it just starts in heavy again.

Next update at 9:15 PM Chicago Time.

its not raining the last 10 minutes but they haven't sent the grounds crew to pull the tarp...they must be busy watching the radar

and my reports are from behind 3rd base

-rain as stopped
-field is drenched, standing water
-tarp is still on the field
-radar is still showing more rain on the way
-no official word from grounds crew (on calling the game or restarting it)

next Gameday Audio update @ 9:30 PM

AZ Phil,

How much rest does Holliman have?

chifan3887 — August 19, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
AZ Phil,

How much rest does Holliman have?

===========================

CHIFAN: Mark Holliman also would have four days rest tomorrow, but (unlike Hart) he was not a candidate to be added to the 40-man roster after this season. That doesn't mean Holliman wouldn't be considered for an emergency start, just that Kevin Hart would probably get the first call since he would have had to be added to the 40-man roster after this season anyway.

Getting to Seamhead's point about adding a catcher for next year I wonder if Seattle would be willing to deal Jojihma for a starter? He is entering the last year of his deal and Clement should be ready to take the reigns some time next year. They are really desperate for pitching(both relief and starting) maybe something like Dempster for Johjima would work. He is 3rd in MLB in caught stealing this year and his 273 BA in the AL West would translate to 300 in the NL Central. His OPS at .748 is lacking, but actually would be an improvement for us.

how come the Cubs didnt check the forecast? They should have had some foresight and called up one of the AAA pitchers that Phil mentioned to pitch tonight. How come I knew that there was a 0% chance that Big Z would have a "normal start" and the Cubs did not? Best case scenario he goes a few innings takes an hour of rest in a delay, and finishes a couple innings. Worst case, he warms up, throws 45 pitches, eats up a start, and we get nothing out of our #1 in the middle of a pennant race.

And Soriano speaks Japanese so he'd have a friend on the team after leaving Ichiro.

I think I'd role with a bullpen by committee tomorrow for game 2. Start Wood for 2-3 innings since he takes longer to warmup, then go to Marmol if he wasn't used up in Game 1.Piggy could be demoted to bring up another reliever if the bullpen is tired.

Then worry about a roster move for Tuesday if necessary especially since tomorrow might be rained out as well.

I also think Z could easily go tomorrow for 3-5 innings and if not tomorrow by Tues/Wednesday he could take a start again.

If they do play tonight, what about warming up Lilly and have him takeover and have Z start tomorrow?

Paging Wes, am I being brutal to their arms?

Rob G.

Big Z could do it, but watching that guy warm up---he doesnt take much off of those pitches, so to me, those warm up pitches + 45 in game pitches= 4-5 days or rest. Maybe im just worried....

it was dry for 30 minutes but they couldnt call it until it started to rain again and now its raining Cardinals are pulling gear from the bullpen it will be called now

If we did play a doubleheader tommrrow (which is doubtful due to our west coast trip and the bad weather predictied for tommrrow making it unlikely to complete 2 games) I would vote for starting Marquis game 2. On short rest sinkerballers tend to pitch well due to their tired arms keeping the ball down and then use a guy like Hart or Holliman on Tuesday in Sanfrancisco in a pitcher's park aganist a bad team instead of dropping them into the thick of the race against one of our rivals.

FWIW, Henry Blanco is signed through 2008 ($2.8M) plus a club option for 2009 (with a $300K buy-out), so he will be difficult to move during the off-season, and Geovany Soto will be out of minor league options next year and would almost certainly get claimed off waivers if the Cubs were to try and outright him to AAA out of ST.

So any off-season trade for a catcher will almost certainly have to include Soto, in which case the Cubs need to ask themselves if the catcher they're getting back in a trade is a better option than Geovany Soto in 2008.

Gerald Laird (TEX) is the one MLB catcher I remember actually being mentioned in the media in connection with the Cubs (and that was back at the trading deadline).

Game called

game postponed according to espn ticker

They won't throw a DH at the cubs tomorrow because they have to travel to west coast.
Suppose to rain tomorrow also.

Make up date to be made up at future time.

8/27 or 9/10 open dates for both.

I would imagine they would play it at end of season if needed.

I say we call up Smardijia and give him a big start tomorrow. jk

His boy Quinn came up big for the Browns, why cant SMARDJIA do that for the Cubbies?

"make up date to be made up at future time" quote for wrigley pa.

Irod a fa this offseason, probably could be had for one year.

Whats wrong with Soto?

Cmurda,

Because the Cards wont be playing prevent defense.

Still in first!!

It's either Soto/Blanco for Cubs catcher next year or Blanco goes into early retirement and Cubs try to resign Kendall and go Kendall/Soto...imo.

As I stated in Parachat, lets do this the Sunday after the season ends. This way we may not have to play it at all.

Well it seems like a moot point now, Rob. But I'll give you a general answer to your question, anyway, Yes to Lilly and no to Z.

If Z gets warm and comes into a game at all, I wouldn't throw him the next day at all. A reliever coming back the next day and throwing is a lot different than a starter doing that. They're just not conditioned for their arm to respond the day after. If he gets to 40+ pitches it's a no-brainer to sit him until probably Wednesday.

Lilly could have certainly came in tonight on 3 days rest if Lou wanted to go that route. Lou's just crazy enough to try something like that, too. It was also Marquis' bullpen day, so he could have been an option if he hadn't yet thrown his side session. I assume he had, however, since it was a night game. However, some guys do stay late even after night games to throw so they can stay away from the fans who are in the park for BP.

Hill could have given you maybe 40 pitches tomorrow since it was his day to throw a bullpen. Just have him throw his bullpen in the first three innings. That's going to put you in a bad hole for the rest of the game, however.

C Murda — August 19, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
I say we call up Smardijia and give him a big start tomorrow. jk

========================

C MURDA: Jeff Samardzija pitched last night, so he wouldn't be available for an emergency start tomorrow. But oddly enough, he might otherwise have been considered, since he's already on the 40-man roster and his 2007 option has already been burned.

BTW, Samardzija will almost certainly get recalled after MLB rosters expand on September 1st. I'm not saying he'll pitch, but he will get recalled.

Getting recalled every September was likely part of the agreement when he signed the major league contract with the Cubs last off-season.

For those of you who might have forgotten, here is Samardzija's deal:

Major League Contract (and thus a spot on the 40-man roster)

$2.5M signing bonus

2007: MLB minimum $380K (or $300K minor league split)
2008: $850K (or $600K minor league split)
2009: $1.3M (guaranteed - no minor league split)
2010: $2.5M (guaranteed - no minor league split)
2011: $2.8M (guaranteed - no minor league split)
2012: $3M (mutual option - player can opt out only if he is eligible for salary arbitration)
2013: $3.5M (mutual option - player can opt out only if he is eligible for salary-arbitration)

He will be out of minor league options after the 2010 season.

And in the FWIW pile:

Sammy Sosa accounts for the only two hits (and what should have been the only walk - struck out looking at ball four) in Johann Santana's gem today.

jacos — August 19, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
They won’t throw a DH at the cubs tomorrow because they have to travel to west coast.
Suppose to rain tomorrow also.

Make up date to be made up at future time.

8/27 or 9/10 open dates for both.

I would imagine they would play it at end of season if needed.

========================

JACOS: Although they are common open dates for the Cubs and Cardinals, both 8/27 and 9/10 would cause the Cubs and Cardinals to play more than 20 days in a row, which is prohibited in the CBA. The only way they could play on 8/27 is if tomorrow's game is called before it starts. Then playing a DH at Wrigley Field on 8/27 would not cause the Cubs or Cards to play more than 20 days in a row. But 9/10 would be out either way.

Now, the players from both clubs could vote to play on one of those dates, but it is 100% in the hands of the players to decide. But the Cardinals might be motivated to vote "no," because then the game would have to be played in St. Louis the weekend of 9/14.

The other option would be to play a day DH tomorrow, or a day-night DH (two gates) tomorrow. Since both the Cubs and Cardinals have night games scheduled for Tuesday, they could play a day-night DH tomorrow (although the Cubs especially wouldn't like it, because they have to fly to SF tomorrow night).

The last resort would be to play make-up games in St. Louis the weekend of 9/14, but they are already playing one make-up DH (the Josh Hanccock make-up game) that weekend as is.

Playing make-up games after the end of the regular season is not an option unless games are postponed at the very end of the season where there is no make-up date alternative, because the Monday and Tuesday immediately following the close of the regular season are kept open for tie-breaker play-in games for the post-season.

his 273 BA in the AL West would translate to 300 in the NL Central.

What? Since when?

They will have to play it. People bought tickets and they’d be ticked if they don’t get to watch it. And I’m sure they don’t want to refund anyone.

They give refunds anyway. All rain-outs get refunds or another similarly priced ticket. They don't just get a new ticket for the same game.

And no... they will not "have" to play it. They probably WILL play it, but they will not have to.

i'm with dave.

IF they can't find an acceptable date to make it up in season AND the Cubs end the day on the last Sunday of the season up 1.5 games or more, they won't play the game.

Dave,

Since the AL west ballparks sans Arlington are airports and all of the NL central parks are hitter friendly.

Since the AL west ballparks sans Arlington are airports and all of the NL central parks are hitter friendly.

Airports often mean higher batting averages and less power.

"player can opt out only if he is eligible for salary-arbitration"

sweet...didnt know that was part of those mutual option years on that contract. that one didnt make sense to me til now...or at least it seems less of a cubs screw-job that way.

So far through the first 63 home games of 2007, the Cubs have played in front of 35,406 empty seats (TOTAL) at Wrigley Field. That's about 562 unsold tickets per game. And with an average ticket price of about $30, and an average per game attendance of 40,556, the Cubs have accrued about $75M from ticket sales so far this season (or $1.2M in ticket sales for each of their dates at Wrigley Field so far in 2007). And if you add concessions to that, it's a lot more.

So giving up one of their 81 home dates costs the Cubs about $1.2M in ticket revenue, and there are not enough available seats at the remaining 18 home games to permit all of the 40,000+ tickets sold for last night's game to be exchanged for future home games. Which is 1.2 million reasons why the Cubs do not (if possible) reschedule rainouts as day doubleheaders or play the game only if necessary after the season is over.

The Cubs will do whatever they can to play the Sunday night rain-out with STL as a single game (or part of a day-night DH with separate gates for each game), either as part of a day-night DH at Wrigley Field today (Monday August 20th), or as a single game on August 27th or September 10th.

If today's scheduled afternoon game is also rained-out, then the Cubs would probably prefer to play a day-night DH (with separate gates) on either August 27th or September 10th, or single games on August 27th and September 10th. But in each case, the Cardinals would have to make a special one day side-trip to Chicago, and if the make-up game(s) causes the Cardinals and/or Cubs to have to play more than 20 days in a row, the players have the right (per the CBA) to refuse to play. In any case where a make-up game causes either club involved to play more than 20 days in a row, the players from the affected club(s) have to agree to accept the make-up date.

Phil,

Correct me if I'm wrong here but the Cubs don't make any money in day to day concessions. they sell that to a contractor. I guess the Cubs could get a cut of the money, but I'll bet its sold outright. Aramark or Levy or whomever.

Also, since when do the Cubs decided when they will play? Won't MLB tell them when it's made up? I would assume the Cubs could have SOME say in it but wouldn't MLB decide what's best for both teams?

CHAD: With the exception of a postponement of the last game in a season series in a given city between two clubs, the home team gets to decide when to reschedule rain-outs that occur at their home park, as long as the make-up game does not violate the CBA. There are rules in the CBA that come into play regarding scheduling make-up night games on getaway days, especially if one of the teams is playing a day game the next day, as well as scheduling a make-up game where it would mean one or both of the clubs would end up playing more than 20 days in a row, or where the make-up game would require the visiting team to come in for just one day (the so-called "one-day stand").

But if both teams are playing night games the next day (as is the case for the both the Cubs and Cardinals on Tuesday night), it would not be a violation of the CBA to schedule a make-up day or even a day-night DH today, although for purely performance reasons, the Cubs would probably MUCH prefer to play just one game per day (either August 27th or September 10th) if at all possible. And a DH or (especially) a day-night DH on getaway day to the West Coast (today) would be rough on the Cubs players.

Scheduling a DH today (Monday) would be something the Cubs could easily have done without having to get permission from MLB, but the Cubs are at the mercy of the Cardinals players (and their own players, too) as far as scheduling make-up games on either 8/27 or 9/10 (the dates the Cubs would probably prefer), because of the problem with scheduling games on more than 20 days in a row and with having the Cardinals come to town for just one day, which is probably why there is a delay in deciding exactly when the make-up game will be played.

Earlier this year, the Cubs had rescheduled an April snowed-out game with HOU for the Thursday immediately after the All-Star Break, when the Astros were already scheduled to play Fri-Sat-Sun at Wrigley Field. However, the Astros requested that the game be made-up on an open date in June (a Monday) after the Astros finished playing the White Sox in a three-game interleague series in Chicago, and the Cubs agreed to the request, although they didn't have to do it.

If the cubs looked at the radar, they should of started kerry wood instead of Z. Because, there was no way a 9 innings was going to happen.

Regardless... the Cub's are now a full game in front of the Brewers and 4 games in front of the Cards. Awesome. Also, they're two games ahead of the Brewers in the loss column.

This would be a great time to go on another tear, like the one that started with the White Sox series.

Hmm..Gerald Laird...He'll be 28 in November.
Career #'s:
.251/.302/.378....

2007:
.229/.284/.345, 7 HR, 38 RBI, 30/79 runners caught stealing

Geovany Soto couldn't put up those numbers?
Offensively at least?

Can Z pitch Tuesday in SF?

Broke the shrinkwrap and threw in my first Cubs Legends DVD this morning ... I decided to start with the Dawson game; a) wanted to hear Harry, and b) had little recollection of this game.

Seems like a nice set.

Gerald Laird looks like a less soulful Hank White to me. Definately not worth a Sean Marshall IMHO.

If Blanco has surgery for the heriated disc in the neck, all bets are off for his availbility next year. That leaves FA Kendall and Soto as the only legit catching options (Koyle Hill, we barely knew ye).

The Conventional Wisdome seems to be that Kendall will price himself out of the Cubs' market due to weak FA catching class, and that Hendry will need to acquire a frontline catcher to go along with Soto as backup.

The Cubs have acknowledged that they need to balance their mega-salaries (Z, Soriano, Ram and Lee) with young, low-cost complimentary players.

That's why I see I see a deal for a catcher, with Marshall as the likely bait.

AZ Phil:

What's the latest with Angel Guzman? I thought his diagnosis was a forearm/elbow strain, which now has him on the 60-day DL.

Obviously, his health is the big issue. Does he have any future with this team, and if so, is it as a starter or in the pen?

Cubs are now TBA for Friday's start, which would be Z's next one. Z says he wants to throw tomorrow in SF.

I guess it doesn't matter. Regardless of whether you throw him tomorrow or Wednesday, you are going to have your 3 lefties throwing back-to-back-to-back for the short term until Lou decides to make a change.

The problem is that Lou had it setup so Z would throw in the Milwaukee series next week. If you throw him either tomorrow or Wednesday, he'll throw in the ARI series Sat/Sun and miss the Brewers series.

If you throw him either tomorrow or Wednesday, he’ll throw in the ARI series Sat/Sun and miss the Brewers series.

Well... the way AZ is playing compared to the way MIL is playing, I may prefer to have Z pitch against AZ.

I'd love to see Z vs Webb in AZ

Dave- agreed on Z pitching against AZ

If you are counting on Blanco next year then you should be expecting an opening day battery of Prior and Blanco.

No dice.

Seamhead — August 20, 2007 @ 8:54 am
If Blanco has surgery for the heriated disc in the neck, all bets are off for his availbility next year. That leaves FA Kendall and Soto as the only legit catching options (Koyle Hill, we barely knew ye).

The Conventional Wisdome seems to be that Kendall will price himself out of the Cubs’ market due to weak FA catching class, and that Hendry will need to acquire a frontline catcher to go along with Soto as backup.

The Cubs have acknowledged that they need to balance their mega-salaries (Z, Soriano, Ram and Lee) with young, low-cost complimentary players.

That’s why I see I see a deal for a catcher, with Marshall as the likely bait.

What’s the latest with Angel Guzman? I thought his diagnosis was a forearm/elbow strain, which now has him on the 60-day DL.

Obviously, his health is the big issue. Does he have any future with this team, and if so, is it as a starter or in the pen?

==========================

SEAMHEAD: Angel Guzman has been shut-down. As far as I know, he has not had surgery, although that is a possibility. While he appears to be a lost cause, he does have one minor league option left, so if he is healthy next season, he could be sent to Iowa and (like Carlos Marmol this season) be primed as a reliever. I suspect his days as a rotation starter are over.

With Zambrano signed to a lengthy extention, Marquis signed through 2009, and Lilly signed through 2010, and with Rich Hill having become an established MLB middle-of-the-rotation starter, there will be a battle next year (and then again in 2009) for the #5 spot in the rotation. Right now, Sean Marshall has the job, but he has pitched just well enough to keep the spot. He also has benefitted from Angel Guzman's sore arm and Sean Gallagher's lack of experience.

But as early as next season, Marshall will likely be pressed by Gallagher, Mark Holliman, and Kevin Hart, and probably Jeff Samardzija, Mitch Atkins, and Donald Veal (if he remains a starter) in '09, and so Marshall will probably indeed become a prime off-season trading chip.

In his interview on WGN-TV last week, Hendry said that he doubted that the Cubs will be active in the off-season FA market, but that he believes they WILL be active in the trading market. That means probably targeting a catcher and/or maybe a veteran left-handed hitting RF who can hit 4th or 5th in the order (what Cliff Floyd was SUPPOSED to be this year).

The Cubs have several position players who have had very good years in AA or AAA (Soto, E. Patterson, Cedeno, Moore, Coats, Pie, Fox, and Fuld) plus a young MLB rotation starter in Sean Marshall, a semi-established LF in Matt Murton, and a potential everyday 2B in Mike Fontenot, so a few of them could be packaged together in a deal for an established catcher and/or a left-handed hitting everyday-type RF who can hit 4th or 5th in the order.

Cubs are already on the hook for almost 100 million in salary next year. Are they legitimately going to be able to be in the market for a frontline catcher unless a sale is finalized? For all the talk of the 300 million dollar spending spree. In all reality. The club has kept payroll under 103 million per season every year.

Dr. aaronb — August 20, 2007 @ 9:30 am
Cubs are already on the hook for almost 100 million in salary next year. Are they legitimately going to be able to be in the market for a frontline catcher unless a sale is finalized? For all the talk of the 300 million dollar spending spree. In all reality. The club has kept payroll under 103 million per season every year.

========================

DR AARON: You are exactly correct. The Cubs payroll has stayed right at about $100M this year, and even with the extention given to Zambrano, it once again is projected to be right at about $100M for 2008.

So if the Cubs make a post-2007 deal for a catcher and/or a RF, it might be that the other team will have to take back some 2008 salary as part of the deal.

Remember, Ryan Dempster and Jacque Jones (not to mention Scott Eyre and Henry Blanco) will probably be on the post-season trading block, too, and that's $10M+ in 2008 salary right there ($16M+ if you include Blanco and Eyre).

Dr. Aaronb-

According to Phil "my drink" Rogers the Z contract may hurt the selling of the Cubs, so maybe any added monies will scare the billionaires who are looking to buy this gold mine.

Unbelievable, you would think they were talking about the Royals being sold.

I'd love to see Z vs Webb in Arizona

Perhaps, dave.

My personal preference would be to pitch my ace against the team I'm trying to beat in the standings than the team that's leading the other division.

Doesn't do much good if Z comes out and owns ARZ on Sunday and then Marquis, Hill, and Marshall lay eggs against the Brewers.

So what are the chances for a game today?

Wes — August 20, 2007 @ 10:07 am

My personal preference would be to pitch my ace against the team I’m trying to beat in the standings than the team that’s leading the other division.

Doesn’t do much good if Z comes out and owns ARZ on Sunday and then Marquis, Hill, and Marshall lay eggs against the Brewers.

===========================

WES: I'd just keep the Big Four (Z, Lilly, Hill, and Marquis) in their scheduled slots, but I would try and rig the rotation so that Marshall throws between Zambrano and Lilly, since Marshall is the rotation starter least-likely to go deep into a game, and Zambrano and Lilly are the most likely.

So I'd go with Lilly today, then Marquis-Hill-Zambrano (pitching on three days rest following a 43-pitch outing last night) vs SF, Marshall-Lilly-Marquis vs AZ, Hill vs STL on Monday (if that's when they schedule the make-up game from last night), and then Zambrano-Marshall-Lilly vs MIL (or Hill-Zambrano-Marshall vs MIL if last night's postponement is rescheduled for 9/10 instead of next Monday).

#62--

Forecast calling for 100% chance of rain after 1pm...looks iffy.

Well said, AZ Phil.

weather is decent right now...

Radar looks pretty good actually. Lots of stuff around Chicago, but all moving east and I don't see anything more to the west.

AccuWeather.com has thunderstorms around noon, but then clearing up in the afternoon until around 6:00. Looks like there may be a window to get the game in, but it will also depend of field conditions.

Is there any way we could work with the rotation to have Zambrano pitch the first game against AZ, and then the last game vs. MIL, so he gets into both series against the more important teams?

email addresses are being harvested off mvn

not cool

It was the 16th consecutive loss for the Brewers in games started by Chris Capuano. Yost had threatened to pull him from the rotation unless he pitched better against the Reds, and the left-hander went 6 1-3 innings, giving up five runs and nine hits with a walk and eight strikeouts.

"I'll see," Yost said when asked about Capuano's status in the rotation. "I haven't made my mind up yet. We're 10 minutes away from a tough loss."

Yes, please pull him from the rotation before the Cub's play the Brewers again.

RHP Ben Sheets will throw a simulated game Monday afternoon before the Brewers' game at Arizona. He has been on the DL since July 16 because of an injury to the middle finger on his right hand.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AqteZv...

CWTP: "email addresses are being harvested off mvn"

Hey - how do you know this?

cwtp:
email addresses are being harvested off mvn

No, not cool. I work in I.T. and wanted to make a suggestion on e-mail address security.

I use Verizon as my ISP, so when I set up my e-mail account I set up a separate account called [email protected] and I set up a forward rule to send everything to my real address. This way, when a website asks for an e-mail address I just use my forwarding address. Then if I start to get too much spam, or the address is discovered by bad guys, as cwtp claims, I'll just delete and recreate my fwd account with another name.

Obviously, this doesn't help if a bad guy already has your e-mail address, but it could help moving forward.

You'd like to get Z in there as much as possible, Sheffield. Also, he probably wouldn't be too happy about having to wait until Friday to throw again.

But, yes. It would be a possiblity to throw Z on Friday in ARZ and then again on Wednesday in the Milwaukee series. I highly doubt Lou goes that route, though.

If Z pitches on Weds. he will throw the first game against the Brewers. The Cubs need to find a way to throw two righties against them. They murder lefties.

But, yes. It would be a possiblity to throw Z on Friday in ARZ and then again on Wednesday in the Milwaukee series. I highly doubt Lou goes that route, though.

Hmm... I was thinking about this - what if Z threw his "side session" on Wednesday as a starter, and threw 2-3 innings, and then you have Marquis come in in the 3rd or 4th. Then Z still starts Friday.

LouPa is crazy enough to do something like this.

Sunday's Phil Rogers article re: Z's contract is poor in several respects, but the goofiest part to me was this statement:

---
"According to a source, Commissioner Bud Selig and his staff did not keep the groups exploring a purchase of the Cubs informed about the Zambrano negotiations."
---

Why would the Commissioner even consider keeping potential buyers informed about negotiations? It's not Selig's business, or MLB's business. Z's deal could conceivably impact the price that a buyer would pay for the Cubs -- i.e. if a buyer is unhappy with the commitment, he may be less excited from a financial perspective and offer less. But only the Tribune/Sam Zell are impacted by the price that is paid, not MLB. The Cubs will get sold to an approved owner; decisions about free agents may impact the price that is paid, but again, the sale price isn't baseball's concern.

I think Z throws his side day a day earlier. I believe he throws him the second day after he starts as opposed to the third day, making Tuesday his day to throw on the side instead of Wedneday. I've known some power pitchers to do that. If they go and throw 60 pitches, they want that arm to rest for the extra day before they go back out there.

Zambrano volunteered to pitch as early as Tuesday, which would be his bullpen day.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...

ESPN 1000 reporting the following Cubs lineup for today:

Theriot 6
Jones 8
Lee 3
Ramirez 5
Ward 9
DeRosa 4
Kendall 2
Murton 7
Lilly 1

Also reporting that Z will start Thu in SF making the rotation for the next 5 games including today: Lilly, Marquis, Hill, Z, and Marshall. If no turns are skipped, MILW would face Hill, Z, and Marshall.

Levine also reporting that 9/10 is the most likely makeup date vs. STL as rosters expanding on 9/1 would allow a lot more pitching flexibility for both teams.

Well there you go... but I would possibly prefer him to start Tuesday and only throw 50-60 pitches (i.e. a side session), and then be able to pitch both against AZ on Fri and against Mil next week.

Who knows... lets hope there is a game today. Otherwise things could get REALLY interesting both in scheduling and rotation issues.

"Why would the Commissioner even consider keeping potential buyers informed about negotiations?"

Because he's trying to get his lackey from the Brewers to buy the Cubs.

George Altman — August 20, 2007 @ 10:53 am

Levine also reporting that 9/10 is the most likely makeup date vs. STL as rosters expanding on 9/1 would allow a lot more pitching flexibility for both teams.

========================

GEORGE A: And the 9/10 make-up date would probably be preferable to the Cardinals, and not just because the rosters will expand on 9/1, but also because playing a game at Wrigley Field on 9/10 will inconvenience both the Cards and the Cubs about the same (the Cubs having to stop off in Chicago for just one day while moving from PIT to HOU, and the Cards having to stop in Chicago for one day while moving from AZ to CIN), whereas 8/27 (next Monday) would be more of an inconvenience for the Cards (stopping off in Chicago for one day while moving from STL to HOU) than it would be for the Cubs (who will be arriving home next Sunday night from AZ to begin a 10-game homestand).

CWTP: “email addresses are being harvested off mvn” Hey - how do you know this?

The address I was using was only used here. My bad for believing they really were secure.

CWTP: “email addresses are being harvested off mvn”

Harvested or sold? It looks like selling our email addresses would be in violation of the spirit of the Terms and Conditions of Use. The language itself is pretty squishy regarding when they could sell our email addresses:

"Notwithstanding the foregoing, we may transfer, sell or assign information concerning your use of this site, including without limitation, personally identifiable information, to third parties, as a result of the sale, merger, consolidation, change in control, transfer of substantial assets, reorganization or liquidation of MVN."

Notice the lack of capitalized word "reorganization." Reorganization is not defined anywhere in the Terms and as such can be interpreted to mean just about anything. It's unlikely that they would do this, but given the abundance of ads on the site these days it certainly is possible.

George Altman — August 20, 2007 @ 10:53 am

Also reporting that Z will start Thu in SF making the rotation for the next 5 games including today: Lilly, Marquis, Hill, Z, and Marshall. If no turns are skipped, MILW would face Hill, Z, and Marshall.

=======================

GEORGE A: And if next Monday remains an off day, then the Cubs can skip Marshall's turn vs MIL on 8/30 and go with Marquis-Hill-Zambrano at SF this week (Tue-Thu) and then Marshall-Lilly-Marquis at AZ this weekend, with Hill-Zambrano-Lilly next week vs MIL, and then come back with Marquis-Marshall (or Gallagher, since it's 9/1 and the rosters have expanded)-Hill vs HOU 8/31-9/2, with Zambrano-Lilly ready to start the first two games of the four-game LAD series at Wrigley. Marquis would be due to start the 9/10 make-up game vs STL at Wrigley. with Lilly-Marquis-Gallagher-Marshall going in the four-game road series at STL the weekend of 9/14-9/16.

Then after the STL series (9/14-9/16), the Cubs would need a 5th starter only ONE more time before the end of the regular season (and that would be Sat 9/29 at CIN). And if Lilly isn't needed the last game of the regular season (Sun 9/30), he would be well-rested and available to pitch Game #1 of the NLDS, with Zambrano available to pitch Game #2, and Hill and Marquis would start Games #3 and #4.

I know Ward came up with the big hit the other day, but I'd really like to see Jake Fox out there at some point. Why have Ward lumbering around the outfield when you have a younger guy with better legs who is also supposed to be a power threat?

I run my own mail server for that very reason, giving out a different email address to each website I interact with. If one gets sold/harvested/compromised, I work with the website to determine what happened and then use that experience to determine if I want to continue to do business with them. In all my web dealings since about 2000 (when I started this process), I've ended up discontinuing business with two sites. Compromised email addresses are deleted and will subsequently bounce, naturally.

One piece of advice I would offer is to never assume your email address is being sold up front. Consider the possibility of it being leeched/harvested off the site in some manner or the site having been compromised in some fashion. If the site admins are vehement that they haven't been harvested/compromised, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. :-)

FWIW, my TCR/mvn email has *not* been spammed by anyone.

Hey...Daryle hit a Grand Slam Saturday!!!

I agree...I'd like to see Fox out there as well...

It would be nice to see Fox in there behind the plate.

AZ Phil:

Thanks for the fine analysis, as always.

Kendall will be an interesting case to watch, as he is coming off a big money contract that no longer reflects his market value. At age 33, will he accept a 2-year deal at $4 mil per season? Hendry would likely offer him that deal, but I question whether Kendall would take it.

I also agree that Hendry will attempt to package Murton, Fontenot, Marshall etc. for a catcher and RF thumper (although we may be forced to watch Jones fill that role for one more year if Pie plays CF).

Lou seems to like a blend of vets and kids, and he will certainly have, by economic necessity, for the rest of his tenure.

"email addresses are being harvested off mvn"

you cant stop that. well, you can and things are a bit helped by the "newer" formatting where the email addy's arent in plaintext for spiders. that's helped a little.

however, what we put into the email/etc. fields ARE part of the page source which is where a chunk of these more intelligent web spiders are picking up new addresses.

the "people" actually harvesting your emails...for the most part...they're not directly targeting anyone. MSG boards are a great place to not only collect valid email addresses of active people, its a great place to "spam" your messages.

outside of fully registered accounts...doing away with email collection (which wouldnt help most businesses (msg boards are mostly businesses even if they pretend they're not one)) altogether would help. dont see that happening, though.

any way you push it, though, the addresses collected by the "bad guys" are just general collections and no one's out to get/hack/etc. anyone. just watch your attachments and script permissions for your web-based email. its part of being on the net.

Soto is ahead .357 to .351 in the race for the PCL batting crown. He has 15 games to get 7 RBI to hit a hundred.

Don't know why he wouldn't get a shot next year. And Kendall doesn't have the right skillset for a backup. I think when he's no longer a starter, he's done.

This is probably it for Kendall.

AZ Phil,

I agree on both points - never let LaRussa miss an opportunity to 'stick it' to another team.

Also, I just went thru the schedule before I read your rotation analysis and came to the same conclusion - Hill, Z, and Lilly puts our best 2 SP's against MILW.

AZ Phil:

What in the name of Yorkis Perez has happened to Neal Cotts?

While his results for the past month have been somewhat better, overall, 27 walks in 35 IP in AAA seems like an open invitation for a DFA.

What went wrong, and does he have a future here?

Seamhead — August 20, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
AZ Phil:

What in the name of Yorkis Perez has happened to Neal Cotts?

While his results for the past month have been somewhat better, overall, 27 walks in 35 IP in AAA seems like an open invitation for a DFA.

What went wrong, and does he have a future here?

=============================

SEAMHEAD: Neal Cotts has zero future with the Cubs.

Since he's eligible for salary arbitration, he's an almost certain non-tender on 12/12 .But I think he will probably get released or traded even before that. because the Cubs are going to need his spot on the 40-man roster spot by November 20th, the
deadline to protect players from the Rule 5 Draft.

Same goes for Roberto Novoa, BTW.

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