Craig Monroe Traded to the Cubs

The man in charge of MVN's baseball sites and Pirates blogger Cory Humes tipped me that Craig Monroe has been dealt to the Cubs, his source is the FSN Detroit broadcast. Details to come. UPDATE #1: The deal is for the one and only PTBNL. Let's just flip the guy we're suppose to get from the Pirates to the Tigers and call it an Izturis for Monroe swap. Who's in? Monroe was all kinds of brutal this year with the Tigers, posting an OPS+ of 67. He still hits lefties though, 277/321/501 for his career and 302/317/542 this year. He's played all three outfield positions in the majors although I can't speak about his defense. His Rate2 numbers at Baseball Prospectus are 96, 90 and 104 from left to right for his career, 100 being average, so that's not promising. I assume Jake Fox or Felix Pie are the first casualties of the trade. By the time Soriano is healthy, rosters will have expanded and we'll have September to hopefully figure out our playoff roster. UPDATE #2: The Cubs will also get cash considerations from the Tigers in the deal and a 40-man roster move will have to be made before tomorrow. Arizona Phil speculates either Angel Pagan to the 60-day DL or Neil Cotts being DFA'd. Both sound reasonable to me and I'll throw in DFAing Buck Coats who doesn't seem to have much future with the club. UPDATE #3: Tigers Insider says the Cubs have until October 15th to send over Mr. PTBNL. AZ PHIL: Craig Monroe is signed through this season and is making $4.775M, and will not be a FA until after the 2008 season. He will be eligible for salary-arbitration after this season, where even if he takes the maximum 20% cut, he still can’t get less than $3.82M in 2008. So unless he gets REALLY hot with the Cubs and makes himself indispensible, I’d look for Monroe to be a 12/12 non-tender.
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FUCK YEAH!

Sorry Felix, I know you will be a future star, but you gotta sit this one out.

(I gotta assume Felix goes back down, right?)

Interesting...

And I would think that Fox goes down, not Pie.

I like it.

Chad — August 23, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Sorry Felix, I know you will be a future star, but you gotta sit this one out.

(I gotta assume Felix goes back down, right?)

===========================

CHAD: I would think so.

Felix Pie would seem to be "odd man out" off the 25.

And to make room for Monroe on the 40-man roster, I would guess either Angel Pagan gets transferred to the 60-day DL (which would end Pagan's season, but also would allow the Cubs to replace Pagan on the post-sesaon playoff roster with any non-catcher position player in the organization), or Neal Cotts gets DFA'd (Cotts is aribtitration-eligible and would almost certainly be non-tenderred on 12/12 anyway).

And Monroe has been utterly terrible since May - not one month with an OPS over 569.

Sullivan says Detroit sending cash as well for PTBNL
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

Score says for a PTBNL. Let's see you pull off this 40-man magic Jumbo Jimbo. Nobody else to move to the 60 day.

or AZ Phil beats me to it. Well done, sir.

It's official. I have the press release posted on my site:

www.viewfromthebleachers.com

PTBNL=Koyie Hill?

I guess Jake Fox could be sent down and Pie gets sent down when Soriano comes back.

Paul Sullivan says Monroe is hitting .302?!?!

Monroe's season line: .222/.264/.373

He did have a decent season last year though (though a bad batting average and a bad obp).

Is that against LHP dave?

Oh... and the .302 looks like that is Monroe's numbers against lefties.

dave — August 23, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
Interesting…

And I would think that Fox goes down, not Pie.

====================

DAVE: Uncle Lou will probably want to be able to platoon Floyd and Murton in LF and Monroe with Fox in RF, but even if he doesn't, because Fox has spent 18 days on optional assignment to the minors so far in 2007, if he spends just two more days on optional assignment, one of his three minor league options gets burned.

That might not seem like a big deal, but as shown by the Cubs optioning of Will Ohman to AAA last week, it's a good idea to preserve a player's three minor league options as long as possible up until he has accrued five years of MLB service time. I would think the Cubs would option Murton to Iowa before they will option Fox.

Is that against LHP dave?

Yea T-Dubs... but that isn't what Sullivan said:

Monroe is hitting .302 in 96 at-bats this year with five home runs and eight doubles. He is a career .258 hitter.

Say goodbye Murt. One more left fielder.

Monroe with Fox in RF

Why would you platoon two righties?

And oh yea... forgot about the options issue with Fox.

Sully's just not letting accuracy get in the way of a good story.

Odd trade...how does this improve our situation. Assuming the PTBNL is 2nd tier, it doesn't hurt us either...but certainly not an impact move.

post updated...

dave — August 23, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Monroe with Fox in RF

Why would you platoon two righties?

And oh yea… forgot about the options issue with Fox.

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DAVE: You're right. Monroe wouldn't platoon with Fox., he would replace either Fox or Murton, and once Soriano comes back, Monroe would probably platoon with Floyd in RF.

I am now convinced that Jim Hendry is trying to shoot the moon by gathering as many light-hitting outfielders on his roster as he possibly can.

Either that, or he figures he's out of here after the sale and is just trying to screw with ownership.

Or...no, I can't think of any other reason for this trade.

Yea Block... I am not sure how Monroe is any better than what the Cubs currently have.

He has better power than what the Cubs are currently playing in the outfield, but he also has a worse BA and OBP than anyone playing in the outfield.

Again... Monroe's career line: .258/.303/.448 - not very good.

Maybe this is the right-handed bench option Lou wanted?

dave and block you are both being terribly short sighted. Craig Monroe is going to be a right handed Daryle Ward. He is going to be used mostly as a pinch hitter and frankly, I want him PH over Matt Murton or Jake Fox.

this reminds me of the Jody Gerut trade, can Matt Lawton be far behind?

furthermore, did you guys WATCH the last two games? Henry Blanco did a fine job of getting that bunt down, but is that who you really wanted up there? Also when Steve Kline came in on Tuesday night, Jake Fox looked lost.

Maybe this is the right-handed bench option Lou wanted?

Perhaps... but can't Jake Fox produce this line: .258/.303/.448?

Monroe's line as a ph - career: .167/.412/.167

wow, we now have ads that talk at me...lovely.

Also when Steve Kline came in on Tuesday night, Jake Fox looked lost.

Yup... one at-bat tells us a lot...

Not sure why you would rather have Monroe over Murton or Fox as a ph - his numbers are not any better, and his (very limited) numbers as a pinch hitter are bad.

Hendry has to collect something. His run of light hitting 2b has run a little low. He's somewhat past his light hitting catcher phase. When do we see strong hitting bullpen pitchers?

He's a power righty bat for the bench, hopefully he makes Angel Pagan non-existent. Also has some playoff experience.

It's a minor deal, think of it as Randall Simon, circa 2003. He'll only get real playing time if he gets hot.

and to answer your question dave, no. Jake Fox probably can't produce that line in spot starts and pinch hitting. Young guys need consistent playing time if you expect them to perform. Veterans are different.

Like the deal, when compared to Fox on the bench right now. However, it makes me think, why not Wily Mo Pena a week or so ago, who went to the Nats. AZ Phil, I know it was a 3 team trade, was much of anything given up? It seemed like Wily Mo coulda been acquired for little more than Monroe, and he would look a lot better on our team.....

re 31. Yes one at bat does tell us a lot. That Jake Fox is a young guy who doesn't understand Major League pitchers yet. He may be a stud down the line, but right now, he and Murton are not the guys we can count on off the bench.

Young guys need consistent playing time if you expect them to perform. Veterans are different.

Yet Monroe hasn't performed this year. He has been downright bad.

Fox is overmatched in the majors, at least what I've seen. Now is not the time to let guys figure it out.

I really think this is a move to replace Pagan more than Murton as our 4th outfielder. But he does bring more power than any other option we have on the roster.

For once, I'm with Chad, as long as we send nobody worthwhile over.

However, it makes me think, why not Wily Mo Pena a week or so ago, who went to the Nats. AZ Phil, I know it was a 3 team trade, was much of anything given up?

The Wily Mo Pena trade was a 3 team trade? I don't think so.

Also... the Pena may not have been available to the Cubs, as the Nats may have claimed him off of waivers.

.412 OBP looks pretty good for a PH.

Chad, the key is...who is he going to replace? If Murton starts, then this guy seems an ok PH in late innings...but if Murton is on the bench, does it really provide anything significant at all to add this guy?

Then again, Murton is 4 for 30...so maybe that's what spawned this.

Pena cleared waivers. It was mentioned before the trade and him being DFA'd.

Pena never seemed to be on the Cubs radar, guess the Cubs scouts didn't care for him much.

Don't get me wrong - I don't love Murton/Fox as PH options. But I am not convinced that Monroe will be able to improve on what he has been able to do since the beginning of June: .204/.230/.293 OPS: .524

I DO think that Murton and Fox would be able to have an OPS over .524.

Sorta agree with Chad here. Sorta.

You've got a guy who you know can rake lefties (which we don't have much of right now). Murton's left split isn't very good and it's very hollow. I don't think Fox has looked very good in any bat. A couple doubles in 10 AB's is about all there is to report there. Small sample, yes, but I don't think he looks good.

Having a guy who hits .300 against left who can actually be a real rightfielder (if used correctly!) is always a valuable piece.

.412 OBP looks pretty good for a PH.

Sorry... it is only in 17 at-bats.

He is 2/12 with 5 walks and no extra base hits.

In other words... it doesn't tell us anything.

maybe the Cubs could just send a giant trailer of PTBNL bobbleheads to Detroit to uphold their end of the deal?

I also would call sample size his very low BA and very high OBP as a PH. 17 PA in his career.

Now, Monroe's .296 OBP in 1800+ PA against right-handers... *that* tells us something.

I also would call sample size his very low BA and very high OBP as a PH. 17 PA in his career.

Yea... already said that right before you did... but I meant to say that in the original post.

Hmm... you know how I would like this trade a little more...

If Monroe plays center against LHP...

Details on the 3-team trade for Pena, dave....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2...

And as Rob G said, I think he cleared waivers. So really, it was just a case of the Cubs not being interested.

Against left we could go Murton/Fox, Monroe, DeRosa from L to R in the OF if Lou really wanted to.

anybody know anything about his defense? It's my biggest concern.

Can he actually handle CF? He can't be worse than Pagan I assume. How's his arm?

Keith — August 23, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
Like the deal, when compared to Fox on the bench right now. However, it makes me think, why not Wily Mo Pena a week or so ago, who went to the Nats. AZ Phil, I know it was a 3 team trade, was much of anything given up? It seemed like Wily Mo coulda been acquired for little more than Monroe, and he would look a lot better on our team…..

============================

KEITH: The Red Sox got a slugging AAA 1B (Chris Carter) from AZ and the D'backs got a AAA RHP (Emiliano Fruto) from WAS in the Wily Mo Pena trade, so to replicate the deal, the Cubs would have had to send either a slugging AAA 1B to Boston (probably Micah Hoffpauir would be closet match, but he's out for the year with a knee injury) or else send a AAA pitcher like Juan Mateo to AZ.

I would guess Hendry probably saw Wily Mo Pena and Craig Monroe as basically the same player, but (for some reason) liked Monroe better.

I like that outfield okay, Dave/Wes. It'll look a lot better with Soriano back in the lineup, too.

Even if we think this is a useful trade...is it really worthy of a "BREAKING NEWS" top headline on chicagotribune.com?

If Monroe plays center against LHP…

geez, glad no one's mentioned that. :)

A guy with an excellent ALCS last year versus Jake Fox is a no brainer.

I haven't watched him but, just googling around, it looks like Monroe can field and run.

Piniella's dislike of Murton is what drove this, as it will drive an offseason trade. Things are getting very sticky for Murton with the Cubs.

can he play Center?

BTW... Monroe achieved quite a feat...

5 k's in a game... against who? The Brewers. He should help the Cubs out next week. :)

Uncle Lou = Cartman from that "ginger kid" episode.

game thread up too....Lou really likes Pumpkenot.

I agree w/ VA Phil. Lou clearly has not liked Murton this year, I think it seemed to stem from the couple error Murton had around the whole Z/Barrett/Lou kicking dirt period. Murton dropped an easy fly ball, I believe, Lou went off on his players not even being able to catch the ball, his ace not holding big leads, and ever since then, Murton has been in the doghouse. I too expect a trade of him this offseason.....too bad.....not sure he'll ever be spectacular, but seems like he could be a solid player.

Anyone with press credentials willing to risk their job by asking Lou why he doesn't like Matt Murton? That would be awesome.

TCR needs to get press credentials...

yeah right, that'll be the day

"Hey Paul, Hey Carrie" (plate of spaghetti thrown at Rob)

Monroe also comes to us enmeshed in a wretched slump. Since June 6, 183/215/242. 5 walks against 39 strikeouts.

Jake Fox, and possibly Jake Plummer and Jake Voskuhl, could produce that.

OH wait. Craig Monroe!?!?!!? I thought we got Curtis Granderson.

KIDDING!!!!!!!

Monroe was DFA'd by Detroit last week to make room for Cameron Maybin on the Tigers 40-man roster, so you've got to be pretty sure the price for Monroe in no way will end up being any player that would need to be placed on the 40-man roster any time soon.

If relatively costless, I see this as a worthwhile move. It is a bat to platoon against lefties and a lefty pinch-hitter. And it is directed at having some more experience on the playoff roster as well. The fact is, Fox has two major league hits total in his career. I know its not like Craig Monroe is a savior but he at least has seen more than a couple dozen major league curve balls.

I believe PTBNLers by rule cannot be on the 40-man roster.

They cant Rob. I think Tom was alluding to it being a player who wouldnt project to ever needing a 40 man roster spot ( A scrub)

my bad then....apologies to all involved and their families. MVN will be sending a check to anyone hurt by my actions. :)

I think anyone who suugested we get monroe when he was 1st cut by the Tigers should get some of those "cash considerations" as a finder's fee! Seriously this is a good move to help us aganist LHP. We can use an outfield of Murton, Monroe, and Fox until Sori gets back and then you can slide Murton to RF to platoon with Floyd. I wonder why Jimbo didnt do this deal at the deadline.

Rob G. — August 23, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
I believe PTBNLers by rule cannot be on the 40-man roster.

=======================

ROB G: Yes they can. The PTBNL just can't be on the Cubs current 25-man roster. For example, Bobby Hill was on the Cubs 40-man roster (but on optional assignment to Iowa) when he was the PTBNL in the Ramirez/Lofton deal in 2003.

RobG, I accept your apology and look forward to my check. (But in lieu of money, can I just get these ads blocked instead?)

That said, I did a quick search and don't know if there's a rule that a PTBNL cannot be on a 40-man roster. But I did see reports that the Pittsburgh trade for Matt Morris involves a PTBNL pitcher from the Pirate's 40-man roster. However, I think it usually works out that way because many PTBNL trades are made in order to clear space on the 40-man roster.

Chiming in late here, but I also like the move. He's a platoon player against lefties that has pop and playoff experience. Hopefully the change of scenery will awaken his bat. I hope it's Fox rather than Murton that gets sent down, even if it does burn an option for Fox. He's just not ready offensively or defensively, and as several have mentioned, a playoff race is not the time to let him figure it out.

Who's the PTBL? Izturis?

To make room on the 40-man roster, the Cubs designated Buck Coats for assignment.

Hopefully we will be seeing a Craig Monroe/Jack Jones/ Felix Pie type of Cf Platoon the rest of the season.

When a player is traded for a player to be named later (PTBNL), the two teams must agree to the PTBNL and complete the transaction within six months of the original date of consummation. If the two teams can't agree on a player or fail to choose one from a list, they can agree on a monetary amount to be paid instead. If a team offers the other team a list of players to choose from, it must be done prior to the initial transaction.

Also, PTBNLs can not be in the same league as the team he is traded to. In other words, a player on the 40-man roster of the Pirates, an NL team, could not be sent to the Reds, also an NL team. This is why PTBNLs are usually minor leaguers.

PTBNLs are also used when a player currently on the DL as been previously agreed upon as part of the trade. This is because the trading of a player on the disabled list requires permission of the Commissioner. Once the player comes off the DL, he is sent to the other team as a PTBNL.

Mark Prior for Monroe? It will be a race to see who gets not tendered fastest.

Well, Mr. Murton had his shot last week and didn't capitalize - stats wise he had a rough time with BABIP and the couple games I watched he hit some solid shots to the outfielders so time for a SABR friendly GM to come take that 'problem' off the Cubs hands for a A ball reliever.

Murton got a whole week's worth of a shot?? Wow...they really let him get some serious at bats....lol...

That being said, our OF is a wasteland this season.
I feel for Cliff Floyd, but his July of:
.289/.333/.356, 0HR and 6 RBI? Ugh..

Jacque has has a superb August of .350/.381/.575, but even a "breakout" July of .288/.368/.390, 0 HR and 9 RBI's still sucks, just less than April-June did.

Monroe is Detroit's revenge on us for sending them Neifi. It will take all of the collective "genius" and RAM to figure out what to do with this collection of outfielders.

What is it with Hendry, guys? Last couple of years it was light-hitting middle infielders. Now it is a bunch of ill-matched outfielders.

Maybe our long-lost friend Manny was right about Hendry.

Monroe is a much better version of Fox. Once Soriano comes back, he'll primarily play RF with Floyd. The defense in RF with Ward/Floyd/Fox has been horrible, and Monroe can at least field his position. He does have a little pop, despite the strikeouts (1 out of every 4 at bats), and basically becomes the 4th outfielder.

He won't get many starts, and this becomes like the Randall Simon move. Murton (.250 against LH) hasn't been doing the job at the plate or in the field, and this solves that. The Cubs can't carry 6 outfielders if we make it into the postseason. (My guess is 5 with Pie for CF defense, and Fontenot as the backup IF)

I've seen that the Tigers want a LHP back from the Cubs, and Neal Cotts or Clay Rapada would fill this role quite nicely.

What is it with Hendry, guys? Last couple of years it was light-hitting middle infielders. Now it is a bunch of ill-matched outfielders.

You have a very short memory. Hendry has been doing the revolving crapola outfielder bit for years now. Just a couple seasons ago we watched such legends as Matt Lawton, Jerry Hairston Jr., Todd Hollandsworth, Jody Gerut, and Ben Grieve patrolling Wrigley's perimeter.

Murton (.250 against LH) hasn’t been doing the job at the plate or in the field, and this solves that.

I will take extapolating sample sizes to make ridiculous conjectures for $400, Alex.

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