Game 126 Thread / Cubs @ Giants (3 of 3)

Game Chat : BR Preview : Press Notes Carlos Zambrano vs. Matt Cain Lineups:
Theriot SS Roberts LF
CF Davis CF Lee 1B Winn RF Ramirez 3B Klesko 1B Ward RF Durham 2B DeRosa LF Aurilia 3B Kendall C Vizquel SS Fontenot 2B Rodriguez C Zambrano P Cain P Why in holy hell would you play Ward in Telephone Company Park's right field over DeRosa? UPDATE: Reader Andy says he heard Lou in the pre-game press conference say that DeRosa is playing right and Ward in left. Sounds like it might be a typo on or Yahoo's part. AZ PHIL UPDATE: To make room on the 40-man roster for OF Craig Monroe (acquired earlier today from DET), the Cubs have designated OF Buck Coats for assignment. Coats was having a fine year at AAA Iowa, hitting 303/363/435 and leading the entire Cubs organization in OF assists with 15. The Cubs now have ten days to either trade, release, or outright Coats to the minors. If he isn't traded and manages to clear Outright Waivers without being claimed, Coats is eligible to be a six-year minor league FA after the 2007 season. ROB G. UPDATE: I rule (in regards to Buck Coats). And I don't know what the hell is going on with the lineup but I just saw Ward field the ball in right, so I assume that's where he's playing.


What does Pumpkinot keep doing to deserve playing time?

Is he LouPa's Neifi?

Cle/Det in an epic 0-0 battle through 7.2 innings..

Westbrook vs Robertson dueling it out.

kendall again?

dusty would have made sure he was rested for the games in november. wait....

yeah seriously, derosa and ward should switch when they go out for the first inning without even telling piniella. would be better for everyone involved i think.

Cubs trade for Craig Monroe, ptbnl.

I just heard Lou on pregame and he said DeRosa's in right. Must have been posted wrong on

I used, they're usually first. Thanks for the tip.

Check out the post below this one if you wish to discuss the Monroe deal.

Yahoo also says Derosa LF, Ward RF.

I'll wait for further confirmation but I'll mention it.

Breaking news.............................

Michael Barrett dealt to SD for 2 players. I will fill you guys in on the details as soon as I get them.

Pumpkinot looked pretty good streaking home last night on the suicide squeeze.

well, Pat just read starting lineups and has Ward in RF, DeRosa in LF. Dunno. Maybe it was posted wrong from the outset? Or maybe I misheard Lou?

SF broadcast has Ward in LF and Derosa in RF

Fontenot swings the bat well. He's been in a slump, and when he started to break out of it recently, balls didn't fall in for him (or over, as in "over the wall," in the case of a shot he hit against Cincy).

Fontenot is still a .280 hitter and he's due to get hot and also to have some drop in.

Piniella is a good judge of hitters. It's what he's really good at.

Also, Piniella stuck with Theriot when his BA fell below .280 and looked to be going further south, and that turned out pretty well.

He’s been in a slump

He has been a slump for two months... that is a long slump.

And Theriot never slumped for that long.

Murton will look good in a Detroit uni. How else can you read it with this lineup. Whoever is playing LF.

Fontenot is in a slump but Lou keeps playing him. Murton is in a slump and Lou benches him. Yeah, Lou is so awfully consistent...

Lou's also good at kicking dirt, but I don't want to see him do that every day. :-)

haha, more Fontenot bashing needed.

Murton can't be the PTBNL, it has to be a player not on the 40-man.

my bad...AZ Phil laid the smack down.

ROB G: Yes they can. The PTBNL just can’t be on the Cubs current 25-man roster. For example, Bobby Hill was on the Cubs 40-man roster (but on optional assignment to Iowa) when he was the PTBNL in the Ramirez/Lofton deal in 2003.

Fontenot: 281/338/418
Murton: 251/327/369

To a manager, a slump means a guy is going to heat up soon. To a stat-minded blogger, it means something else.

Fontenot is not a great fielder but he sometimes make great plays, especially on pop flies, like the sliding catch at the wall on the first-base side recently that saved a run in a close game.

Murton has nothing like that to his credit. It's one bad fielding play after another. He made that one nice throw from his knees to nail a (slow) runner at second, but that was only after he dove for the ball, had it in his glove, and lost it.

Fontenot, since 7/1/07: .198/.282/.233
Murton, since his recall: .250/.318/.433

I'll take the 235 point OPS advantage, please.

From the FWIW department. Here is the official rules in regards to a PTBNL:

When a player is traded for a player to be named later (PTBNL), the two teams must agree to the PTBNL and complete the transaction within six months of the original date of consummation. If the two teams can't agree on a player or fail to choose one from a list, they can agree on a monetary amount to be paid instead. If a team offers the other team a list of players to choose from, it must be done prior to the initial transaction.

Also, PTBNLs can not be in the same league as the team he is traded to. In other words, a player on the 40-man roster of the Pirates, an NL team, could not be sent to the Reds, also an NL team. This is why PTBNLs are usually minor leaguers.

PTBNLs are also used when a player currently on the DL as been previously agreed upon as part of the trade. This is because the trading of a player on the disabled list requires permission of the Commissioner. Once the player comes off the DL, he is sent to the other team as a PTBNL.

Walking the pitcher? Are you serious?

Looks like walking the pitcher was a good idea....ahhhh, we got the bad Z today. Bummer.

How cant he GIants have such a lousy record with a rotation that has Lincecum, Lowry, Zito and Cain? I am hard pressed to think of a stronger 4-man group.

In his last ten games, 30 official at bats, Murton has three singles, one double, and four walks.

Quick and dirty numbers: .133/.235/.166

Tell me why you think his slump is over.

Should they send him down and recall him, so you can start over?

AARON B: A PTBNL cannot be on an MLB 25-man roster (and cannot be recalled at any time prior to the deal being consummated) if the trade is made during the regular season. It doesn't matter if the teams are in the same league.

So the only players who can be a PTBNL right now (August 23rd) in the Craig Monroe deal are players on the Cubs MLB DL (although a player on the DL can be traded if both teams agree) or minor leaguers (players who are either on optional assignment or outright assignment to the minors), and if the PTBNL is a player on the DL or a minor leaguer, the player cannot play for the Cubs (at the major league level) in the meantime before being sent to the Tigers.

For example, in 2003 the Cubs acquired 3B Aramis Ramirez and OF Kenny Lofton from PIT for INF Jose Hernandez, RHP Matt Bruback, and a PTBNL. (The Pirates were supposedly given a list of players from which to choose). The PTBNL (which was named about three weeks later) was 2B Bobby Hill, who was on the Cubs 40-man roster (but on optional assignment to Iowa) at the time the deal was announced. (Hill had been on the Cubs 25-man roster previously that season, although he had to remain in the minors while the Pirates were making their decision--during the period after the trade was announced and before the PTBNL was named--in order to remain eligible to be the PTBNL).

A PTBNL was also involved in the Derrek Lee/Hee Seop Choi trade with FLA in November 2003. The PTBNL was RHP Mike Nannini, and he was a PTBNL only because the trade was made during the period between November 20th and the Rule 5 Draft in December when players on minor league rosters cannot be traded. As soon as the Rule 5 Draft was over, the Cubs sent Nannini to the Marlins.

An example of a player on the DL being traded was this past April, when CIN sent OF Chris Denorfia (who was on the 60-day DL, out for the season with TJ surgery) to OAK for two PTBNLs. One of the two PTBNLs ultimately sent to CIN was RHP Marcus McBeth, who was on the A's 40-man roster at the time the trade was announced, but not on their 25-man roster (he had been optioned to the minors out of ST). I guess Denorfia could have designated a PTBNL, too (since he was on the DL when the trade was made), but then the trade would have been one PTBNL for two PTBNLs, and that would have been kind of silly.

And of course lots of times the PTBNL turns out to be cash or some other perk (like maybe a free Grand Slam breakfast at Denny's, a gift card from Blockbuster, or a subscription to The Sporting News).

BillyBucks — August 23, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Looks like walking the pitcher was a good idea….ahhhh, we got the bad Z today. Bummer.

How cant he GIants have such a lousy record with a rotation that has Lincecum, Lowry, Zito and Cain? I am hard pressed to think of a stronger 4-man group.

John,Paul,George and Ringo?

Er, Murton hit very well when he was called up, has gone in a slump and is benched. Fontenot hit very well in the first half, hasn't hit since, and keeps playing. That's the point Virginia Phil. The other point is people, especially you, seem to state that Lou plays you if you hit and bench you if you don't, and that has not been the case in multiple instances, especially with Fontenot.

Murton will be a far better player then Fontenot. Fontenot had his time, and he's shown zero since with consistent playing time.

Also, this is the third average to bad start in a row for Z. Pretty frustrating from someone making so much money.

Murton will be a far better player then Fontenot.

Is Murton moving over to second base or something?

HR by Cain? Yeesh

Well. the first three innings were pretty good

81 comments in the MONROE thread and if anybody got it right, I missed it.

Monroe isn't a platoon player and he's not a pinch hitter either. Apparently everyone is generalizing from his stats this year.

This is what he's done the last the three years.
vs. Left 422AB .275 .323 .457 .780
vs. Right 1133AB .274 .317 .476 .793

No significant difference.

Monroe has a history of hitting fairly well in September/October Here's what he's done the last three years

230AB 11HR 26RBI .283 .311 .496 .807

That player would be useful.

But Monroe didn't turn it around post All-Star game this year. The quesion is why? Is he hurtin'? Finished? Suffering supplement withdrawal??

dreadful game.

glad i missed most of it...from the boxscore and the 2 innings i saw it looks like almost the entire game was 1 missed opportunity after another.

go not brewers!

I can see why Zambrano had trouble holding down that lineup. Any time you can trot Randy Winn out there as your #3 hitter - you know you're an offensive juggernaut.

The funniest( if you're not a Cub fan) and most ironic moment in the game came when Jim Hendry commented that the Cubs really missed Daryle Lard when he was gone and hardly had the words out of his mouth before Daryle was picked off second base.

But despite that,base-running miscue we'd 've won if only Lou Piniella understood the wisdom of starting Murton instead of Fontenot.

i think floyd comes up well before murton in this game on people's "huh?" list.

btw...fontenot is still a singles-slap hitting 1-month wonde who can take a walk. some people dont care about him as much as some people wanna attach their name and torch on the guy.

fontentot had a nice day, he needed one.

Would have been nice if Z pitched like his contract says he should.

The ERA race continues
Hill 3.67
Lilly 3.88
Z 3.95
Marquis 4.12
Marshall 4.21

Don't even get me started on their K:BB rates...

if the Cards win tonight, Chad says we can start worrying about them.

Rob, but Chad has a mullet!

Yes Rob, if the Cards win we should start to worry.

And let us not forget what tomorrow is:


(that would be a great front page post title btw)

I went to all three games this series. Great to see the Cubs take the first 2 games.

For some reason, the scoreboard at Crest Toothpaste Stadium, or whatever they're calling it this week, had MIL at AZ as a night game tonight.

David Wells signed by the Dodgers and to start Sunday per Rosenthal

I am very worried about our offense. A few good innings during our 5 of 6 streak but nothing at all sustained.

But there is simply no excuse anymore for an inning like that from Zambrano...walking 3, including the pitcher with 2 outs. I have zero patience for mental breakdowns like that. It was the same story with Wood. They both have/had outstanding tools, but they feel the need to try to strike out 30 per game, and not allow the defense to pick them up.

After two of the more fun games of the year, this game just sucked.

Great, Hanley Ramirez pulled a Ward getting picked off 2nd with 0 outs in the first. just saying...ya know...just saying...

Rob G.:
Would have been nice if Z pitched like his contract says he should.

As I said in the last thread the division is there for the Cub's to take, but Z has to step up and be "the man".

You don't become "the man" by walking the pitcher and whatnot.

that directed towards me crunch? If so, I don't get it. Is there a subtle backhanded slap translator for dummies book too?

I don't think that was for you, block.

OK...just making sure :-).

The Voldemort pitcher for Florida doing a great job with the 4 run lead he was just handed

i feel for this site's poor database and/or database machine.

either way...someone in MVN land is learning a lot about scaling servers/server traffic and/or wordpress.

I'm taking all my love away from Murton and giving it to Soto.


Two home runs tonight, 99 RBI, 3 for 3, .362!

7-1 florida...ross 3 run HR off the bench. top 6th

Dave - the nice thing about having Murton on the team is he is better at misjudging fly balls and turning singles into doubles than anyone else on the team. I actually think he uses Adam Dunn's fielding coach in the offseason

Murton is terrible...But thank God we picked up Craig can never have too many .250 hitters with absolutely no power roaming your outfield and crowding your bench.

Cubs outfield - Soriano, Pagan, Murton, Jones, Floyd, Monroe, Patterson, Pie, Fox - 1862 at bats only 48 HR's...oh yeah - 384 strike outs (189 of these strike outs are from Soriano and Monroe)

Our outfield is terrible

On a more positive note, that was a nice demoralizing loss the Cards suffered tonight. I guess Chad denies us permission to worry.

Check out the play Ankiel made on what by all rights should have been a double in the RF corner:

click on the top plays (far right column) for the FLA vs. STL game

I have to say, I have never seen a better looking outfielder (much less rookie outfielder who once was a fine pitcher) than Rick Ankiel. He is absolutely Malamudian, like "The Natural."

Hey cwtp...might want to check out this link:

"He's not having a great year, numbers-wise, against the righties (.190 average)," Hendry said. "But he's still swinging the bat great against the lefties, and still has (55) RBIs. I was looking for a little more veteran help against lefties."

From Lou:
"The teams we're playing here, they all have left-handed starters in their rotation. He'll be a valuable addition."

Article also says Cubs get $600,000 (Monroe owed $900,000 for the rest of the year). Sullivan speculation says the Tigers interested in a lefty pitcher, possibly Rapada or Cotts and Fox will be sent down tomorrow.

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  • I love winning! It's, like, better than losing?

    billybucks 3 hours 48 min ago view

    Dusty Baylor 5 hours 11 min ago view
  • You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

    Jackstraw 7 hours 56 min ago view
  • Its too bad Warren didnt get to pitch. He would have saved us.

    The E-Man 8 hours 13 min ago view
  • Whoa -- that Contreras play in the 8th looked too much like a "Schwarber" -- nearly crashed into the wall going full speed, with Heyward doing the same.

    New rule: if you are a catcher playing LF, and find yourself sprinting after a fly ball in the gap -- stop, let the CF go after it and get ready to play it off the wall.

    billybucks 8 hours 24 min ago view
  • Cubs have no spark and no life. Pretty boring to watch these days.

    billybucks 9 hours 57 min ago view
  • I thought trips to Miami were supposed to be fun. This one sucked.

    The bottom half of the bullpen now turns close games into blowout losses. Not good.

    Once Fowler went to the DL, the team went into the tank. Wonder if he'll get any love this offseason? Probably not.

    billybucks 10 hours 1 min ago view
  • 6IP, 2ER. The last one scored because of another botched Zobrist DP turn.

    And now, a bad throw by KB. Sloppy.

    billybucks 10 hours 43 min ago view
  • What is it with Hammel always starting well and sucking after a couple months?

    The E-Man 12 hours 17 min ago view
  • Ahhh...sad. Lke a few of you here, I saw him play during the '69-'71 seasons. He was the "hot Zobrist" for the club in August/September of '69 while everyone else was fizzling out...

    The E-Man 12 hours 56 min ago view
  • I predict: "They will play hard and if they give the same effort every day, they'll win a lot of games."

    The E-Man 12 hours 59 min ago view
  • OK, boys -- find a way to win today.

    billybucks 13 hours 53 min ago view
  • There's some BA is missing too, here's all signing bonus BA doesn't have some:

    -6 Hockin $241,000 (slot price), 7 Cruz $75,000 (saved $110,00), 8 Ridlings $120,000 (saved $53,800), 9 Robinson $30,000 (saved $132,300), so far the Cubs have saved an extra $297,100

    cubbies.4ever 15 hours 43 min ago view
  • per Muscat...
    Zobrist (2B), Hayward (CF), Bryant (3B), Rizzo, Contreras (LF), Montero, Russell, Coghlan (RF), Hammel

    Cubster 15 hours 52 min ago view
  • Also -- despite losing 6 of their last 10, the Cubs picked up a game on both STL and PIT during that period. Weird, given that they swept PIT and were swept by STL.

    billybucks 15 hours 52 min ago view
  • Also, I'd like to know if there are numbers to back up my suspicion that there are a lot more fast starts than late June romps. This seems like a time where everybody not named Willson Contreras is looking a little tired and/or banged up a bit.

    For once, the Cubs got off to a fast start. Seems like I've been waiting for that for 50 years.Everybody is really gunning for this team, too. It's their playoffs.

    Old and Blue 17 hours 17 min ago view