Game 127 Thread / Cubs @ Dbacks (1 of 3)

Game Chat : BR Preview : Press Notes Sean Marshall vs. Micah Owings Lineups:
Theriot SS Young CF
Jones RF Hudson 2B
Lee 1B Byrnes LF
Ramirez 3B Jackson 1B
Floyd LF Snyder C
DeRosa 2B Reynolds 3B
Kendall C Upton RF
Pie CF Drew SS
Marshall P Owings P
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ooohh, Pie!

Snake Whacking Day

most famous quotes: “I am evil Homer”

“Look Marge, A New Whacking Stick; whack, whack, whack.”

Barney: (whacking invisible snakes) Snakes! Snakes everywhere!
Lenny: You gettin’ ready for Whacking Day?
Barney: What’s Whacking Day?

Homer: Well Marge, should I whack slow or fast?
Marge: Slow, then fast.

Miss Springfield: Gentlemen, start your whacking!

Is there a corresponding 25-man roster move for Monroe? I already know Coats got whacked.

Like a Diamondback.

What's the corrsponding 25-man roster move for Monroe?

Wordpress bites my ass.

Theriot SS Young CF - Advantage Snakes
Jones RF Hudson 2B - Advantage Snakes
Lee 1B Byrnes LF - Advantage Cubs
Ramirez 3B Jackson 1B - Advantage Cubs
Floyd LF Snyder C - Advantage Snakes
DeRosa 2B Reynolds 3B - Draw
Kendall C Upton RF - Advantage Snakes
Pie CF Drew SS - Advantage Snakes
Marshall P Owings P - Draw

They're throwing out a better lineup than us. Sad. Hopefully our pitching and defense can compensate.

Real Neal, that reminds me of something we did for awhile and got away from...but judging by our offensive output, it needs to be brought back.

This lineup is just awful...I wouldn't leave crap this putrid in an outhouse.

speculation has been that Fox will get sent down...

OPS+ comparisions...
Theriot 87, Young 88
Jones 83, Hudson 111
Lee 129, Byrnes 115
Ramirez 130, Jackson 100
Floyd 92, Snyder 94
Derosa 102, Reynolds 104
Kendall 110, Upton 73
Pie 56, Drew 68

tarp is finally off in StL (about an hour delay) and Smoltz is warming up for the Bravos, they expect more rain later though

Yeah, I just checked Gameday. Fox is not on the bench.

Yeah, Len just announced they sent Fox down.

37 pitches for Owings in the 1st

Marshall 6 pitch inning

Is this a Cub season record?

2 run double Brian McCann

2-0, 3rd

I'd far rather have Theriot in the leadoff spot over Young. Also, I hope to god this settles any talk of Marshall moving to the bullpen. He's been one of the best 5th starters in MLB this year.

Shaping up to be a real nice night for the Cub's...

Cub's win
Card's lose
Brewers trying to lose... down 6-11 in the 9th

Welcome to Win #66 on 8-24

for perspective: the 2006 Cubs only won 66 games.

final score, SF 11 Milwaukee 6

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sport...

Talks about it being a one week showdown between Murton and PIe for the final potential playoff roster spot.

I backed my car into a cop car the utha day - Well he just drove off sometimes life's ok.

I ran my mouth off a bit too much oh what can i say
Well you just laughed it off it was all ok

And the Cubs float on, Oh kayyyy. And the Cubs float on, anyway well

Feeling a little "modest" tonight, Iowa Cub?

I just realized in an interesting thing re: our lack of HR power. When you rank team HRs, you don't find a 1st place team till #13. In the top 10, you find the Reds, Marlins, White Sox and Rangers with the Devil Rays and As at 11 and 12.

But the majority of the top teams in SLG and OBP are in 1st or 2nd place (or they have a great ERA like the Cubs, ranked 6th in team ERA). I really think we need to get beyond HRs when rooting for the Cubs.

re #6

That was one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever seen here. Juding at team on lineup alone means nothing.

Theriot SS Drew SS - Advantage Cubs
Jones RF Upton RF - Advantage Cubs
Lee 1B Jackson 1B - Advantage Cubs
Ramirez 3B Reynolds 3B - Advantage Cubs
Floyd LF Byrnes LF - Advantage Snakes
DeRosa 2B Hudson 2B - draw
Kendall C Snyder C - draw
Pie CF Young CF - Advantage Snakes
Marshall P Owings P - Draw

Bleeding - I'm so Modest 2nite, bro, SO modest. The CHAD is fired up, tho. Fire it up, fire it up, when we finally turn it over, make a beeline toward the border, have a drink, I'VE had enough, Chad is up

No Chad, this is one of the dumbest things ever. Saying 'Juding at team on lineup alone means nothing' after I clearly said 'Hopefully our pitching and defense can compensate'.

Also can you 'splain me how in Chad World DeRosa is as good as Hudson?

anybody else up watching the yanks/tigers? my directv feed shut off in the middle of the game because the feed is set to turn off at 3am eastern, but the game is still going due to the rain delay and extra innings. unbelievable directv...

Well, I'd say DeRosa and Hudson are pretty similar. Hudson has a 111 OPS and DeRosa has a 102 OPS+ while DeRosa has a .863 ZR and Hudson has a .826 ZR.

I'd probably give the slight advantage to Hudson because he's been better recently, but it's nothing to write home about.

Mark DeRosa v Orlando Hudson
Games 116 126
At Bats 382 468
Batting Average .291 .303
Runs 46 60
Hits 111 142
Doubles 22 24
Triples 2 7
Home Runs 8 10
Total Bases 161 210
Runs Batted In 59 62
Base on Balls 44 63
Strikeouts 73 72
Stolen Bases 0 7
Caught Stealing 2 2
On Base % .365 .383
Slugging % .421 .449
Sacrifice Flies 4 7
Sacrifice Hits 3 5
Hit by Pitch 3 2
Int. Base on Balls 2 1
Grounded into DPs 11 21

I'm glad you asked that question. I see no real difference in the above stats.

We buck and a half up? Anyone else f'ing rocking tonight? Godammn - start thrashing boys!!!!! Except fo' you punks having stat wars. You keep doin' watcha doin!!!!

So much for CRAIG MONROE being an LHP hitting specialist. Of course Lou took no time putting that to rest. His first AB as a Cub, in a crucial situation no less, was pinch hitting against a right hand pitcher. And he promptly singled.

In 2006, Monroe hit 28 HR's during the regular season. 26 were off RHPs.

And yet we're told he's here to platoon against lefties....

good grief!

I’m glad you asked that question. I see no real difference in the above stats.

Which mean you don't see a real difference in RBI's? Hudson is a gold glove 2nd basemen, DeRosa is a average 2nd basemen. Hudson has a 9% edge in OPS and can steal bases. The only thing DeRosa has done better this year, according to the stats you listed is not grounding into double plays.

If you use 'total' player evaluation stats like Win Shares (21 to 13) or WARP1 (7.0 to 3.6) there's a big difference between the two players. I'm not saying these stats are perfect, but when they agree (exactly on Hudson and within .3 of a 'win' on DeRosa) you can be pretty sure that Hudson has been significantly better than DeRosa this year. No bash on DeRosa, but Hudson is a fringe MVP candidate.

i think i like iowaCub. welcome

i passed out on my couch in the first inning (i'm working starting at 3 AM every day, and my sleep schedule is all F-ed, but i thought i'd stay up for the game tonight. damn. missed a fun one.

huge night.

i'm going to chicago for labor day weekend, going to the brewers game on thursday and the astros game on sunday. first time at wrigley this year, looking forward to it big time.

i'd bet that i'll see sheets and soriano on thursday.

I'm 100% behind Monroe but that was fielders choice at best. Only Pie's world class speed made it an infield hit. Hell, I think they still could have ruled it a FC.

Hudson is a gold glove 2nd basemen, DeRosa is a average 2nd basemen.
_________________________________________________

This is where you lose it. DeRosa is clearly a very good second baseman and has been better then Hudson in ZR or UZR. Again, I'd give the edge to Hudson overall, but gold gloves are completely meaningless and this year at least DeRosa has been the the better fielder.

Re: Pie vs. Murton

Barring further waiver trades for position players, I predict Pie makes the playoff roster vs. Murton. Monroe fills essentially the same role Murton would and Pie brings a LH bat, better OF defense in late innings, and more value as a PR than Murton. The only thing Murton brings over Pie currently is his bat which Monroe basically makes redundant.

"Which mean you don’t see a real difference in RBI’s? Hudson is a gold glove 2nd basemen, DeRosa is a average 2nd basemen. Hudson has a 9% edge in OPS and can steal bases."

Hudson is a Gold Glove second baseman? That means very little around here. 9% edge ins OPS big deal. OPS is the most overrated stat in Sabreword. You cannot add averages. That does not exist in statistica analysis.

Win shares is bullshit. VORP is bullshit. These are not real and are as arbitrary as any other stat.

Outside MVP candidate? My GOD! Your bar is low.

The O-diggity has exactly 0.0% chance of being an MVP candidate, let alone a winner. I'll use your own numbers against you. O-dog is 35th in the National League in OPS.

Fielder, Pujols, Howard, Braun, Chipper, Holliday, Bonds, Cabrera, Hanley, and D-Wright are all light years ahead of the O-dog for MVP.

Even the guys in the second tier like Rammy, Dunn, Hawpe, Caballo, DaMeatHook, and Griffey have a better shot at MVP than the diggity.

It's nice to wake up and know you're going to be in first place all day no matter what.

Chad,

Why don't you just cut to the chase and say 'blah blah blah, nanny nanny poo poo'? The truth is that you looked at RBI's and determined the players were equal just like you always do. Do you have any proof to substantiate anything else? Of the stats you listed Hudson has outperformed DeRosa in 17 of them. DeRosa over Hudson in 3 stats, two of which he has no real control over. Don't like OPS+ how about slugging (Hudson) and OBP (Hudson). If you want to argue with me at least be able to count.

This is where you lose it. DeRosa is clearly a very good second baseman and has been better then Hudson in ZR or UZR.

Johann there are 8 things wrong with UZR last time I checked.

Look at BP's defensive stats, or watch baseball games then get back to me.

Wes,

The O-diggity has exactly 0.0% chance of being an MVP candidate, let alone a winner.

Freddy Sanchez, Mike Cameron, Bronzon Arroyo, Nomar, Eckstein, Cliff Floyd, Scott Eyre, Chad Cordero and Juan Pierre are some guys who got MVP votes over the last three years. If the D-Backs win the division, I guarantee Hudson will get MVP votes and most likely beat some of those guys you listed.

Real Neal, all your list proves is that getting MVP votes and being an MVP candidate are very different things.

djchi,

What would you call people who recieve votes other than 'fringe candidates' ?

cubswinthepennant — August 25, 2007 @ 1:36 am

So much for CRAIG MONROE being an LHP hitting specialist. Of course Lou took no time putting that to rest. His first AB as a Cub, in a crucial situation no less, was pinch hitting against a right hand pitcher. And he promptly singled.
-------------------------------------------

From today's Daily Herald:

"Cubs manager Lou Piniella said he plans to use Monroe primarily against lefties."

Key word = PRIMARILY

Did you honestly think Monroe would never get an AB against a right-hander? I certainly hope not.

And considering he singled, why the hell bring it up anyway, unless you just want to bitch for the sake of bitching.

Monroe becomes the 2007 Cubs 6th player with World Series experience according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

Can you name the other 5?

Lee, Eyre(SF?), (not Marquis), Cotts though I wouldn't count him either, Soriano and I am sure it's obvious but drawing a blank on the last one, not Floyd he was with the Mets well after their WS loss, right? Blanco way back with the Braves? That doesn't sound right either.

Trick question, because the Sun Times is wrong.

Article on the burying of Murton at Sun Times he says this:

'But at the same time, if you look at even some of the greatest players that play in our game today, they're going to go through stretches of even 180 at-bats that I have at this point and not hit like they expect to hit.'

Amazing that Murton has a better grasp of this than Piniella does.

1. Re #19 and 35, the report that Pie and Murton are in a one-week battle royale for the last slot on a playoff roster:

I agree with GAltman, if Monroe does what he was brought here to do and provide a bat off the bench and occasional OF sub, then Pie is the easy choice for the playoff roster over Murton. Pie's speed and defense make him precisely the type of player to use in a late-inning double-switch. You could even see a situation if the Cubs are trailing by a run in the 9th inning that Monroe be brought out to pinch-hit, and if he gets a hit, Pie is the pinch runner. There is not much purpose to having both Murton and Monroe on the playoff roster if both Floyd and Ward are healthy.

2. Jason Kendall: .306/.404/.418 in 111 plate appearances for the Cubs. I'm just saying.

3. #43 (jacos). I didn't look at the article, but here is my guess for the other five Cubs with World Series experience:

Jason Marquis (2004, though last year doesn't count I think he was not on the WS roster. I still think he is our cold-weather ace in the hole for October)

Derek Lee (Marlins in the Year That Must Not Be Named)

Soriano (Yankees, again in the Year That Must Not Be Named)

Ted Lilly (for Yankees, maybe twice)

And I can't think of the fifth guy. Tempting to guess Ward when we was with the Astros but I don't think so. And I presume they're not talking about Piniella, because then we'd have to add Alan Trammel too. From, of course, the other Year That Must Not Be Named.

Real Neal-

It is right.

I checked.

DC Tom- 3 out of 4

Are we counting the College World Series? If so than we add Theriot and Godenot!

I know Lilly was on the Yankees teams in the early 2000's that made the WS but he might not have been on the playoff roster. DeRosa was in the playoffs several times with the Braves but of course not the Series.

Your wrong on Lilly.

I forgot about the ass kicking that Cards got in '04. They were done so fast hard to remember the series. Marquis was around for that. Floyd was with the Marlins when they won their first championship I guess. I still wouldn't count Cotts, though.

Cotts not one of the 6.

OK, I cheated and looked it up. Yes, Lilly was not on the playoff roster for the 2000 and 2001 Yankees, although he was on the team those year. (He was in the rotation in 2001 but was behind Mussina, Clemens, Pettitte and El Duque.)

The two I am missing I never would have guessed or remembered. And the Sun Times article is indeed right. In spirit of trivia (particularly when it's Saturday morning and the game is a night game in Mountain Time), I won't spoil it and leave it to rest of the board to figure out.

By the way they are all mentioned from post 44 and on.

Sorry if I spoiled it.

Interesting factoid on Jason Marquis that I found while looking up answer to jacos's trivia:

Jason Marquis was in the 1991 Little League World Series. I can't find out if he pitched or not. He is one of only a handful of players to play in both LLWS and MLB WS (list includes Sheffield, Varitek and Dwight Gooden).

In the 2004 World Series against the Red Sox, Marquis lost the clinching Game 4. Gave up a lead off home run to Johnny Damon, five walks, four strikeouts, three ER in 6 innings.

DC Tom, regarding Kendall, I nearly creamed in my pants the way he reached down and connected on that 9th inning hit and run.

Owings is the first pitcher to homer in back-to-back games since the Cubs' Carlos Zambrano, who did it on Sept. 17 and 23 last year. It's no surprise that Owings can hit. As a junior at Tulane in 2005, he was named to an NCAA Regional all-tourney team -- as a designated hitter.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=Avc7DF...

Ew

hey, leave me and my Maori war chant alone

"Monroe said he thinks his problems at the plate this year -- including 94 strikeouts in 343 at-bats -- were caused by putting pressure on himself to have an even bigger year than last year."

From G. Wittenmeyer, Sun Times

Ummm, so there is no pressure playing at Wrigley in a pennant race?

The Cubs' Magic Number is 34. FWIW. :-)

O-Dog's probably the best defensive second basemen in the league right now and has been for awhile. It's really not close if you're comparing Derorsa and Hudson's overall game at second base.

when hudson plays some SS/3rd it might matter.

the difference between hudson and derosa at 2nd...might as well be argueing if ozzie smith is better than omar vizquel. they're both top line guys you'd wanna plug in if defense is what you're wanting.

10-15 homers, 30-ish doubles...both guys deliver...hudson's got more speed, but he dont use it any more than derosa.

*shrug*

hell, i'll take either...right now i'll take the guy with 2 years left on his contract, though. hudson made 4m this year going into his 5th year of service. dbacks have him for another year, but at what cost?

and yeah, if i had to give the defensive edge, hudson, but derosa gives you flexibility in other defensive positions no matter hudson's mastery of 2nd.

and damn...that homer last night by owings...that one wasnt cheap, got out in a hurry, and was a huge liner with a touch of lift. someone should file murder charges on him for that hit.

Well, hard to say, but Monroe may feel less pressure in Cub world than he did as a member of the Tigers. He was expected to produce big time over there. I would guess that he is aware that we don't have the same expectations of him over here. Over there, he was a starter when the year began, wasn't he? He won't be a regular starter here. So I do think it is possible that, for what it is worth, there is less pressure on HIM over here.

So much for CRAIG MONROE being an LHP hitting specialist. Of course Lou took no time putting that to rest. His first AB as a Cub, in a crucial situation no less, was pinch hitting against a right hand pitcher. And he promptly singled.

Yeah don't let facts get in the way of you cwtp....

Monroe came in on a double switch in the bottom of the 8th to replace Cliff Floyd who made the last out in the top of the inning. He came up 5th in the top of the ninth.

The final list for that "Face of the Franchise" at Espn.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/s...

Z won the fan vote.

Not surprising, Rob. Still should have been Lee. :)

His first AB as a Cub, in a crucial situation no less, was pinch hitting against a right hand pitcher. And he promptly singled.

cwtp... you just love facts, don't you.

Monroe did not pinch hit last night. Monroe was inserted into left in a double switch in the previous inning.

But go ahead... keep making things up. You are getting good at it.

oops... looks like Rob already said that.

Monroe did not pinch hit last night. Monroe was inserted into left in a double switch in the previous inning.

that has to be just about the most anal comment I have ever read

Doesn't make it wrong, though. :)

ew

not the most anal comment actually

That, right there, is why Uranus needs to be renamed to something less joke-worthy.

(May I suggest, Urectum?)

It's nice to see EVERY espn so called experts pick against the Cubs.

damn...some people are just never wrong...even when they are.

the great thing is not only are they never wrong actually wrong, but its also the accuser's fault for pointing it out.

Eric Young on ESPN always disses the Cubs when it comes to predictions. Not sure what happened while he was here. Maybe someone parked in his spot one day? Who knows. But there is one guy regularly on ESPN Baseball Tonight who has been predicting the Cubs make the playoffs for several weeks. I cannot recall who it is.

"The truth is that you looked at RBI’s and determined the players were equal just like you always do. Do you have any proof to substantiate anything else?"

No I looked at home runs too and saw that Derosa is right there with him even though he's played less games.

Look I can see that Hudson's stats are slightly better than derosa's, but just slightly. I would hardly call Hudson's stats decisively better.

And DAMMIT TRANS! You know I would have come through with that punchline!!!!! Just gimme a few mins.

ARM, IIRC it's Krucky.

Snooze, ya lose, Chad. :)

Race you to the next rectum-joke....

oh no you don't

I want in on this too

Well Hudson really is a gold glove 2nd baseman. He isnt some fancy offensive player who gets the award cuz he hits better than other people. Though he isnt a slouch with the bat.

Hudson was brought in specifically to stabilize the INF defense for Brandon Webb...and pretty much Brandon Webb alone. So his value to the D'backs is pretty high.

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