Game 140 Thread/Cubs @ Pirates (1 of 3)

Game Chat : BR Preview : Game Notes Rich Hill vs. Tom Gorzelanny Lineups:
Soriano LF Morgan CF
Theriot SS Bautista 3B
Lee 1B Sanchez 2B
Ramirez 3B Bay LF
DeRosa 2B LaRoche 1B
Monroe CF Pearce RF
Soto Paulino C
Murton RF Wilson SS
Hill P Gorzelanny P
In two career starts and 15 IP against the Cubs, Gorzelanny has struck out 12, allowed one hit and one run. I believe in scouting parlance, that's referred to as "kicking our ass." Hill, however, has been mighty tough on the Bucs: 26 strikeouts and a 1.69 ERA over 21 1/3 innings. Sounds like a pitchers duel to me. But watch out--the Pirates canned Dave Littlefield today. No telling how much raw emotion that could set loose in the Pittsburgh clubhouse. Last is this note from
Gorzelanny's biggest problem continues to be running up an early pitch count. On Sunday, that pitch count was at 49 after two innings and 105 by the end of four. It's been an ongoing problem for Gorzelanny all season, but it's something that has gotten more concerning during the second half of the season.
What are the odds Cub hitters will exploit a shortcoming like that?


Two to the power of two hundred and seventy-six thousand to one against and falling...

"Gorzelanny’s biggest problem continues to be running up an early pitch count. On Sunday, that pitch count was at 49 after two innings and 105 by the end of four. It’s been an ongoing problem for Gorzelanny all season, but it’s something that has gotten more concerning during the second half of the season." There is nothing that gets me more pissed off than KNOWING that the Cubs will probably see 12 pitches or less in each of the first 3 innings.

guess I was wrong about Soto getting some starts GoSoto!!!!! (© tm all rights reserved TCR Inc.)

Yeah, Chad. Knowing that the Cubs should have the scouting report that says this guy is shaky early probably means that they will swing at every first pitch they see, and he'll coast through the first 7 innings in under 60 pitches...

Let's see what you got, Geo. Soft-tossing lefty. Be patient and go rake.

I was hoping to see Monroe in there, too... So, um, who is playing CF? Monroe? The posted lineup has Murton and Monroe both playing RF.

Monroe's in CF according to

Gorzelanny is anything but soft-tossing.

yeah CF, sorry.

Who am I thinking of then? Van Benschoten?

What's funny is that I'm not an Sabreguy (shocking) but I do believe in seeing pitches and making the pitcher work. As a coach I would be stressing bat control and the ability to foul off borderline pitches.

"Who am I thinking of then? Van Benschoten?" Zack Duke?

No, I know Duke. But past that, I can't keep all their young lefties straight between Pittsburgh and Indy. Gorzelanny, Maholm, Van Benschoten, Youman, Tejera, Burnett. Sheesh.

VanBenschotten is a righty.

I'm on fire right now. I just give up, then. Forget I even brought it up.

Gorzelanny can top out at like 95 mph... <i>Can rear back and boost his low-90s, darting heat to 95 mph when needed. Has a nasty slider and good change-up. A tough pitcher who works well with runners on.</i>

My call for the top o' the first: Soriano: Out, on a weak fly ball after swinging that the first pitch. Theriot: Scorches a single to right-center field. Lee: Out, on a slightly deeper fly ball than Soriano's. Ramirez: Walk, after running the count full then fouling off 6 pitches. DeRosa: Out, on a deep fly ball that looks like it might go out then is caught at the wall by Morgan.

Well, Here's hoping Monroe goes 4/4 because right now he's upside down in his splits. Hired to hit LH pitching he's only 2/13 against them as a Cub.

Make that 2/14

Can someone please explain to me how I'm helping this club?

6-0 Reds over Brewcrew after the first inning... Encouraging, that. Now if the Cubs would just get on the board...

1st inning runs provided by rich hill? check soriano strikeout? check base running boners? check brewers taking a dump? check st. looie, your (1st place) table is waiting.



The How Low Can He Go? Monroe-o-meter is now at 2/16 (.125 BA) vs right handed pitching, Andy.

DC: <i>"st. looie, your (1st place) table is waiting."</i> Amazing....With a win tonight they will be leading the division (at least in the all important loss column).

St. Louis doing a levitating act again, but this season even higher. Let's see...All - Star 3rd baseman, out for season - check. Losing starting pitcher to fatal car accident - check. Losing starting OF to freak injury in on - deck circle - check. Their season would be called Cub - like if they weren't the St. Louis Cardinals.

Dmac- You also missed: Cy Young award winning ace, out for season.

Remember though, the Cards will be 2 games over .500...that seems normal for a good team plagued by a lot of injuries. Aside from Soriano being out for a month, we have no such excuse for our profound mediocrity.

Nice gutsy rebound game after yesterday's tough loss. Always good to see character in a team under pressure. But -- vs. Gorz, they really had no chance. In fact, against any decent pitcher, they seem pretty helpless. $100MM payroll for a .500 team. Jim H., that is not what a new owner will want to see. As Robin Williams said in "Good Morning Vietnam" : This will NOT look good on a resume!

Tonight's game was as much fun as ______________.

Does the pitcher even need to be decent?

billybucks: <i>"$100MM payroll for a .500 team. Jim H., that is not what a new owner will want to see."</i> It's Teflon Jim, you are talking about, come on...:)

9 LOB, 2 Errors, 1 pick off (of sorts). Quality September Baseball. 4-6 against the all mighty Pirates!

One run on 8 hits and 3 walks. Hard to do. Unless you are a team that lacks power and puts its top HR hitter in the leadoff spot.

"You also missed: Cy Young award winning ace, out for season." I didn't miss it - but I didn't want to feel even worse than I do now. Somehow not listing it makes the pain a little less...but just a little.

Honestly though, If Soriano, Lee and Ramirez were anywhere near career averages for HR's this team would be ina very different place. Think about Hendry's big moves, the pitchers turned out fine, Soriano pretty good, DeRosa pretty good. My biggest criticism of him is only being able to get a third tier player in July August in Monroe....but then again, there really wasn't muh available.

The Pirates are trying to steal bases up 6-1 in the 8th? That's obnoxius -- good job to nail 'em, Geo. But, next time you are up with the bases loaded, hit a grand slam.

Tonight’s game was as much fun as ______________. An intrascrotal hematoma! much fun as removing my contact lenses with tin snips.

Nice thing about being on the road in games like this is we only have to work our pitching staff for 8 innings.

I really do think the Central will be won by a team at .500 or below. Amazing.

Smoltz has a no-no thru 7 vs. WASH.

pinella said that the cubs had one more streak in them. i guess he didnt say winning or losing streak.

also can we end the c. monroe experiment i would rather see fuld start at least i have never seen him hit. (seen enough of monroe)

Webb K's Edmonds (with a real slow changeup) with two runners on, on to the bottom if 1st. No Score

I believe that was Duncan, Cubster... by the way, does anyone know what has happened to the MLB Gameday strike zone? There hasn't been a sighting for a couple of days now.

Smoltz no hit bid ended in the 8th, so did his shutout on a Ryan Church double.

ah yes...was Duncan...Edmonds had walked. Joe Garigiola Sr. on the TV telecast...he sounds really old, course he is (born 2-12-26, 81)

<b>Tonight’s game was as much fun as ______________. </b> a fart in a space suit. a barb-wire thong. a flood at the alka-seltzer factory.

Tonight's game was as much fun as taking Chad and myself to the annual sabermetric conference.

Or, Wes, being in parachat with you and Chad after a potential pinch-hitting-for-the-pitcher situation. ;)

bottom 6th...Tenn vs Huntsville 0-0. Justin Berg has given up 3 hits in 5 IP. Corey Thurman pitching 6 no-no innings vs the Smokies so far.

If you want to watch pitch locations, switch to CBS Sports Gamecenter

oops, no longer a good night for the Smokies. Huntsville Stars 5-0, still a no-no against them with one more inning to go

Dbacks 1-0. AUGIE, AUGIE!!

As much fun as your typical Baltimore Orioles game.

- sigh - 28 game improvement for $110MM payroll in 2007 has it been worth it? Cardinals will be in first tonight as well. 3 way tie. Of SUCK.

What's that smell? Nope, it's not Gary, Indiana, it's the Cub's stinking it up.

<i>dc60124: Tonight’s game was as much fun as ______________. a fart in a space suit. a barb-wire thong. a flood at the alka-seltzer factory.</i> LOL! C?

Edmonds opposite field HR, 1-1

Hate that guy. &gt;:-(

I think a flood at the alka-seltzer factory might actually be a good time. Kinda like one of those spring break "foam parties"....but better.

...and heartburn-free.

When do we start talking about next year again?

do ya think soto is earning some points with lou i am liking what i am seeing so far. we could play him next year and he could out homer derrick lee

Newport -- Re: #63 I had roughly the same thought &amp; posted it -- it seems to have gotten lost in moderator purgatory....

The thing about tonight's game that really ticked me off was Gorzelany's weakness has been high pitch counts and except for the 2nd inning which ended with Hill making an out with the bases loaded, we really didn't make him work. I think the pitch count was about 40 through 2 innings, then they forgot how to take any pitches. A lot of first ball swinging and Soriano in particular looked bad when working the count might be important against such a pitcher. The Brewers had Gorzy over 100 pitches in 4 innings and got him out of the game that's just irritating but nothing new really. It'd like being a team facing Zambrano and not taking a few pitches. He might beat you but often enough he beats himself.

<i>28 game improvement for $110MM payroll in 2007</i> A 28 game improvement is HUGE. People seem to forget that. Not that I am content with that if it means they don't make the playoffs, but a 28 game improvement is really, really good.

wow....cubs.....suck.... thank god for the distraction that is the NFL

Cubster (re: #68) You're exactly right -- 42 pitches through the end of the 2nd. Inning-by-inning it was: 1st - 14 2nd - 28 3rd - 11 4th - 11 5th - 16 6th - 12 7th - 24 116 through 7 innings. (I posted this before also -- but it hasn't appeared yet.)

- sigh - Its the tease, Dave. The tease, that leaves us with blue balls.

re: #51, Actually, watching you and Chad at a sabermetrics conference would be really fun. Blood would spill and the wine would flow like Zima. And you two gladiators would come out on top, I would hope.

Salazar walk, Byrnes rbi double; 2-2, 6th

CUBSTER: Salazar walks? Luis is back?

No offense but a 28 game improvement, or 14 more wins, than last year, is nice, very nice, but without a playoff berth, it means absolutely nothing to me. There is no silver lining. It is the playoffs or nothing. This division is WAY too shitty, to not win it with the payroll the size it is.

The Sux and Twinkies have quite a battle going on right now in the 9th, each team has scored 6. Tied 10-10 1 out in bottom 9.

Dbacks 3-2; Miles stumbles on a double play ball turned into a fielders choice at 2nd, Byrnes scores.

Jabba "The Hut" Chamberlain is NASTY!!! Nuff said. Oh yeah, I got him on my fantasy team....:)

Luis Salazar born 5-19-56, age 51...last game 10-4-92. Jeff Salazar Webb out after 86 pitches, Tony Pena pitching

LOU needs to start dumping. We are out of time, and there are players who just aren't getting the job done that need to be sat down for most of the time: Shit-ass Oh-Man!, Monroe, Murton, Ward, Blanco, Eyre, is a start. Pie should ONLY be used in the late innings (and, if the ground isn't wet. Apparently, there is no rain in the Dominican) Sit Rich Hill and try someone else - he would not be pitching in the Playoffs anyway. And FINALLY drop Soriano DOWN! Since Theriot has been dropped down, he has not been on-base as much.

Brandon Lyon gets out of a one out Pujols (lead off double) on third jam with a K and a groundout 6-3. Dbacks still up 3-2 on to the bottom of 8th

Was the Milw. trade that the D-Backs made the catalyst for their great young talent cache?

Tony Clark bomb, 4-2.

this trade? (after looking at it now it's not really as good as was touted early on) Sexson was traded to the Arizona Diamondbacks in December of 2003 along with pitcher Shane Nance and a player to be named later (Noochie Varner) for infielders Junior Spivey, Craig Counsell, Lyle Overbay (who was flipped to Toronto for Dave Bush), catcher Chad Moeller, and pitchers Chris Capuano and Jorge de la Rosa. I doubt you meant the offseason Estrada, Vargas and Aquino for Doug Davis and left-hander Dana Eveland and outfielder Dave Krynzel trade.

Final 4-2 Dbacks over StL. AUGIE AUGIE turns the double play. The NL Central division, where losing games but not ground is a way of life. Can the Reds/Astros and Pirates get to petition for a coin flip too?

I was scratching my head over comments about the Cubs being 28 games better. I Will never understand how anyone can possibly look at things that way. You have a choice of a win or a loss in each game. Each game is 1 game, not 2. You don't gain 2 games versus .500 with a win, you gain 1. You don't gain 2 games in the division with a win, you gain 1. If the Cubs win 80 games this year, that means they are 14 games ahead of last year. You win 80 games, the next team wins 66 games...that means 1 team is 14 games ahead of the other team. A team goes 30-132 one year, they go 130-32 the next year...does that mean they improved by 200 games, despite only playing 162 games? The only reason to ever refer to an improvement from 66 wins to 80 wins as improving by 28 games is to inflate an argument.

I should add, it makes zero difference to the argument. 14 games better than the prior year is a very big improvement. But considering it makes no difference, why do people feel the need to effectively invent an interpretation of a statistic that you will never find by journalists familiar with the game, players or otherwise. I could basically guarntee that if you asked players how much of an improvement it is from 66-96 to 80-82. 100% will answer "we improved by 14 games"

<i>The only reason to ever refer to an improvement from 66 wins to 80 wins as improving by 28 games is to inflate an argument.</i> I actually agree with you. I didn't really think about it when I repeated the "28 games" line. It really is 14 games.

#81: <i>Shit-[can] Oh-Man!, Monroe, Murton, Ward, Blanco, Eyre, is a start. Pie should ONLY be used in the late innings (and, if the ground isn’t wet. Apparently, there is no rain in the Dominican)</i> As to Ohman and Monroe, I'm with you. As to everybody else, no way. It's been posted before, but Ward is: 337 / 439 / 516 / 955. I want that guy on my bench, no question. If you're wanting to DFA him because he got picked off of first, then God help you. And getting on Pie for slipping: yikes. DLee kinda booted a ball the other day, too -- what, balls don't take weird hops in Sacramento? DFA him! Hell, we could play Ward at first instea--...oh.

Cubs AA affiliate, Tenn Smokies, after winning their 1st playoff game Thur night, were shut out 5-0 last night by Huntsville ... in fact, Huntsville threw a combined no-hitter by 3 pitchers against the Smokies. E-Pat 0-4 with 1 K (no word on whether he showed up on time to the clubhouse). On a brighter note, 2006 Cubs 1st round pick OF Ty Colvin had two walks and only one K - big news for a guy who had posted a combined 15 BBs/101Ks in the minors this season.

Pell-Mell: I said nothing about DFA-ing. I said "bench". Personally - I would DFA BOTH Oh-Man! and Eyre, but the other position players, PH only - or rare rest "replacement" start. I'm aware of Ward's numbers. He truly a professional PH. But that's it!

i am also ready to end the monroe experiment bury his sorry ass at the end of bench.

<i>Shit-ass Oh-Man!, Monroe, Murton, Ward, Blanco, Eyre, is a start. </i> Eyre has been one of the best pitchers in the Cubs' bullpen since the beginning if July. Ward has been the Cubs' best hitter since the beginning of July. Murton has the team's 3rd or 4th best OPS since he was re-called. Ohman and Monroe suck. As for Blanco - he has had a total of 10 at-bats since being activated, so I am not sure what the issue is there.

<I>On a brighter note, 2006 Cubs 1st round pick OF Ty Colvin had two walks and only one K -</i> Well, that really brightened my day. ~

maybe blanco will retire so we dont have to have him on team in 08

well retracting last statement i guess there is 2.8 million reasons not to retire he has to be one of the highest paid backups

blanco/soto is 100% great by me...not much in AAA to pad out for injury (esp. given blanco's recent woes)...still, soto's a great chip to build a catching core of the future around and there's always k.hill's of the world for AAA(A) backup.

<i>dave: Not that I am content with that if it means they don’t make the playoffs, but a 28 game improvement is really, really good.</i> True, but I think the problem most of us have (at least me, anyways) is the Cub's are losing games to the Pirates, Reds, &amp; Astros of the league. They should be winning these games. In fact, if they were winning these games they should be winning, they'd probably still have a little lead in the standings.

"Eyre has been one of the best pitchers in the Cubs’ bullpen since the beginning if July." Yeah, that Eyre is a STUD, man!

Ward has been the Cubs’ best hitter since the beginning of July. Murton has the team’s 3rd or 4th best OPS since he was re-called. Ohman and Monroe suck. ======================================= Love WARD as a PH ONLY. Murton is OK as a PH or sporatic spot starter. The ops you mention is a reflection of his AB's not with RISP I believe. Blanco hits as well as Koyie Hill, but perhaps Lou could use him as the "designated thrower" a late inning D replacement.

2007 vs. playoff possibles opponent wrigley away mets 1-2 1-3 phils 2-2 1-2 braves 1-2 3-3 d'backs 1-2 1-2 dodgers 1-3 1-2 padres 2-3 1-2 colo 3-0 2-2 not much there for optimism. small sample size be damned; a large enough collection of small samples tells the truth. this club may wheeze and limp into the central championship, but just does not have enough to move on. such a shame they played down to their competition; i haven't bothered to look at life in 2007 vs wash, fla, reds, or pirates. anything significantly different from the above would be both startling and comical.

They play down to the below .500 competition. They play down to the above .500 competition. They are a .500 team when all said and done. 81 wins will be an accomplishment. A disappointment now - but an accomplishment. Can a team win this with 81 wins? Maybe. And they will get slaughtered by any of the three other teams which will all be much better.

"They should be winning these games. In fact, if they were winning these games they should be winning, they’d probably still have a little lead in the standings." If we were winning the games we "should" be winning, we'd be running away with this division right now. I'm talking about NOT getting swept in Houston. Splitting with the Dodgers and POUNDING THE CRAP out of the Pirates.

<i>The ops you mention is a reflection of his AB’s not with RISP I believe.</i> It includes all his ab's. And again... Blanco has 10 at-bats in about 3 weeks. Not really something to complain about.

short series means everything. vs. hou the cubs have both lost 3 in a row and won 3 in a row... all that matters is how you play when it matters and no preparation beyond the basic will make it scientific. stl was picked to lay down in the 1st round last year...then in the 2nd...then was expected to bow out to DET pretty early.. kinda like that 03 series when the cubs had wood/prior'd think at least one of those would have been a win. no dice.

oops...make that Z/prior/wood in 03...back to back to back...up 3 games to 1... no dice. there are no sure-things in a short series. yanks and their 180-230m payrolls are testaments to that.

re 88/89 Sounds like the arguments we had with Cubfan who couldn't understand that being 84 - 78 is 6 games over .500.

84-78 now that record i think would definatly win this division.

scott "who?" taylor suspended for 50 days in yet another useless as hell enforcement of the "minor league drug prevention program" okay...we've had a good share of people go down recently for basically...smoking weed. yes, they know the rules and blah blah it, risk it, accept the consequences...blah blah blah still, we got this "drug program" that dont test HGH, doesnt take roid testing very seriously... yet they've added testing for weed to their drug tests and are taking 2 months of player's careers away. this is pretty much NOT what the drug program enforcement was supposed to catch...ya know, the PED people...the ones MLB ignored for decades. we still dont test for HGH and the roids testing isnt mandatory, nor cover the full, the records arent safe and we, as fans, shouldnt be fooled into thinking they are. however, players can run their bodies into the ground on prescription pain pills and alcohol. fun stuff. they can also pump the HGH without fear of being busted. scott taylor, suspended 50 games...troy glaus, millionaire MVP...barry bonds, millionaire MVP... hell, the only person to truely pay the price so far has been palmeiro shamed into retiring. hey roiders...break the records, break em all...all of them...good luck with cy young and cal ripkens'...heh.

"the roids testing isnt mandatory" well, the random-mandatory applies...

taylor...pitcher...5th round 05.

If you've never read Dirk Hayhurst's excellent "Non-Prospect Diary" read this one

Murton has had numerous opportunities to fill the vacancy in right field this year. He tends to waste these opportunities. Most recently, after hitting the important "pinch" (double switch) homer against Houston on Sunday, Murton has gotten three starts in RF. One single in ten at bats.

Shhhh. Don't tell DAVE. He has the team's "3rd or 4th" ops since being recalled. And, what a fielder, plus arm, and speed threat!

damn...dirk's a decent/honest writer. guess that college education was good for something. neat stuff. anyone notice that yet?

<i>anyone notice that yet?</i> Yea... mentioned that a few days ago. :)

<i>Murton has had numerous opportunities to fill the vacancy in right field this year. He tends to waste these opportunities.</i> How is he wasting opportunities with this line: 284/.348/.506 OPS: .854 I swear... some of you expect certain players to go 2 for 4 with a home run in every game, and if they don't they suck.

Its the same guy who thinks a catcher can add 4-5 mph onto a pitcher's fastball, Dave. Cut him some slack

damn...114 homers for the team...2 guys with 20+ HR (22 and 20)...1 guy with 10+ (dlee, 17). the #4 guy is mike barrett (9)...the #5 guy his derosa (8, 4 in april i believe). what a f'n power outtage.

"what a f’n power outtage." I do not think there is ONE person among us who thought that this would be the reality! .500 or below, yes. But 112 HR's for the team in mid-Sept.?! No way.

crazy stuff, this team could very easily have 3 guys hitting 20+ HR with a huge gap between 10-20 and 20-30 talent.

E-Man, Where is that thread where we all made predictions on how many HR's this team would hit. I know I was on the lower side, but can't remember.

Cubs prospect Scott Taylor was suspended 50 games for PEDs.

Navin...see comment 110.

Recent comments

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  • JOHN B: Pierce Johnson and Rob Zastryzny were likely 2015 AFL candidates (I mentioned them as likely candidates to get assigned to the AFL in an article about the AFL last month) because they are starting pitchers who missed part of the season due to injuries and they need to accrue more innings.
  • Also - what did Bosio say when we went to talk to Rondon? "OK, Hector, tie game, 9th inning, 2 outs, 2-0 count on the hottest hitter in the game. Let's try the ol' fastball right down the middle and see how that works, hmmm?" Terrible pitch. I've never been a fan of using closers in non-save situations -- they are used to pitching with adrenaline pumping and celebrating the last out of the inning. I realize it was a a swinging bunt and an error that caused the problem, but that may have been the worst pitch I have seen Rondon throw in a long time.
  • Ugly series save a few clutch Homeruns. 2 first inning Homeruns allowed. 2 complete innings (out of 27) with a lead (8th and 9th game 2). 6 Leads/Ties given up top half of the inning after scoring. 9 9th inning unearned runs. Brutal roadtrip coming up while SF plays 22 straight against teams with losing records. Like the Cubs odds, obviously, but long way to go.
  • No more f'n Pajama Parties, Joe! Losing a series at home to the Reds (who have a worse record than the Brewers) in September is not what we are looking for, gentlemen. 3 series losses in a row -- let's get that fixed immediately. Bad error by KB as Crunch describes -- almost like he was surprised the ball was hit to him. I think if he makes that play we win the game.
  • solid smack to him...right through his legs. he wasn't even in motion, totally stationary. no bad bounce, either. it was hit very hard, but also squarely wiffed...not even any glove contact. it happens...not a good time for it to happen with 2 outs, though. that was the inning ender, easy.
  • Can someone tell me about Bryant's error who saw the play? You cannot give the Reds (or most teams) 4 outs. In this case with Joey Votto coming up.
  • un...fucking...believable... tie a game in the bottom 8th, give up 3 runs in the top 9th...why the hell not. awesome.
  • Ugh Hammel...the new Haren. The 3-5 starters have imploded and killed yet another series.
  • Just about to type the same thing.....Augh!
  • 5 times in the last 3 games, Cubs have taken the lead or tied the game in the bottom half, only to give up runs in the top half.
  • <p>I'd like to see stats on opposing pitcher batting average. It's probably not real, but seems like we give up hits all the time to f-ing pitchers.&nbsp;</p>
  • Tony Four Sacks # 27
  • Hammel has k'd Votto twice. /baseball
  • Sore Ribs doesn't worry me too much. Getting a "precautionary MRI" has me assuming he is going to be out at least a few days, possibly more.