Game 150 Recap: Cubs 4, Cardinals 2

3 of 4 in St. Louis

Box Score, Play by Play, Photos

W- Jason Marquis (12-8), Foul home-runs, the B-Team L- Mark Mulder (0-3), Blowing teams out when given the chance S - Ryan Dempster (28) Magic Number - 13 Things to Take from This Game 1. Winning with the Reserves Soto, Monroe, Cedeno and Murton all started, and contributed with 9 hits, all 4 RBI and 2 runs scored. The big hit being Murton's 3-run home run. Soto looked just terrific at the plate, going 4 for 5 with a couple of doubles. Jones, Floyd, Theriot and Kendall all rest, and we still win. Good news. 2. Left on Base We had a chance to blow the Cards out of the game early, but left an enormous number of men on base. The Cards returned the favor later in the game, unable to convert on several good scoring opportunities, most notably in the seventh. 3. Marquis over Mulder Mulder looked like he didn't have anything at all on his pitches, and is lucky to only have given up 4 runs in 3 IP. Marquis looked really sharp, wtih lots of movement on the sinker, especially through the first 5 IP, before running into some trouble in the 6th and 7th. Marmol was wild, Howry gave up a few hits, but Dempster had a very easy 6-pitch ninth for the save. The Brewers won, keeping pace in the loss column. Your first-place details, below. Game Recap Inning 1
  • Mulder with a couple of very quick fly outs before Lee doublesdown the LF line. Lee, standing at second base, just dwarfs Aaron Miles. Pretty funny. Murton fouls out to end the inning.
  • With one out, Ankiel does a perfectly executed swinging bunt. Huge swing, maybe twenty feet of dribble down the third base line. 1 on, 1 out for Pujols.
  • Marquis gets the 6-4-3 from Pujols, nice work.
Inning 2
  • Ankiel makes a fine diving catch running into the right-field corner. Seems to have hurt his hands or arms on the dive, but stays in the game. Monroe robbed of a likely double, to start the second
  • Soto lines a double down the left field line. Really is hitting the ball well, lately.
  • A Cedeno ground-out to first advances Soto to third with two outs. Marquis flies out to just-short-of-the-warning-track right field, ending the top of the second.
  • Edmonds and Spiezio go down on called third strikes, as part of an easy 1-2-3 inning for Marquis. So far, so good.
Inning 3
  • Soriano hits one off the upper half of the OF wall, just left of dead Center. Edmonds seems to have mistimed and misjudged the jump pretty badly - he didn't get back to the fence very quickly at all, and must have been at least a foot off in his leap. He crashes to the ground, again appearing to be a bit hurt, but stays in the game. Double forSoriano to start the third.
  • After a Derosa walk, Lee hits a hard grounder to third, bringing about a 5-4-3 DP, killing a promising rally. Soriano now on third with two outs.
  • Mulder pitches around Ramirez, and he walks. Murton now up with two outs, runners on first and third.
  • Just as Len and Bob are discussing how Murton will need to produce, because the Cards are going to pitch around Ramirez all day, Murton hits one into the Net that extends out in fair territory from the foul pole. No doubt about its distance, a 3-run HR for Murton. A "fast"ball up from Mulder.
  • This time, Monroe does get his double down the right-field corner, as it's out of Ankiel's reach. Nice swing on a ball high and outside.
  • Soto then singles on a 15 foot squibber that none of the Cardinals choose to pick up off the grass. Murton to third
  • Cedeno singles back up the middle for a 2 out RBI. 4-0. It's the B-team of Murton, Monroe, Soto and Cedeno doing all the damage. Mulder just doesn't have much stuff today. Feel bad for the guy.
  • Marquis ends the inning with a 6-4 force out.
  • Mulder out of the game, as Brian Barden (WHO!?!?) pinch hits for him in the third.
  • Having set the first two Cards down, Ramirez sort of whifs on a Brendan Ryan grounder, the error keeps the inning going. Ramirez never gets in front of the ball, and makes what is becoming the patented Ramirez big-upward-swipe-of-the-glove-on-a-ball-played-off-the-hip effort. No harm done, as Miles then flies out.
Inning 4
  • Kelvim Jimenez in, and Soriano starts the inning with his second double, this time of the down-the-left-field-line variety. And exactly like last inning, Derosa follows the Soriano double with a walk
  • This time, instead of a GIDP, Lee singles to left, bases loaded.
  • On a 3-2 count, Ramirez swings at a pitch low out of the strike zone, bouncing to the drawn-in Shortstop, Ryan. Ryan double-clutches, comes home for the force out, no runs scores, bases still loaded, one out.Murton up.
  • 3-0 count to Murton. 3-1. Murton goes 6-4-3 to end the inning. Bases loaded with no outs, and no runs score.
  • With one out and no on, Pujols hits a hard grounder to Cedeno. It goes off his chest, recovers, throws a tough one-hopper to Lee, who picks it nicely. Edmonds then singles sharply to left. Ludwick grounds to Ramirez to end the fourth.
Inning 5
  • Soto rips a double off the right-field wall. Nice opposite-field line drive.
  • Cedeno singles over the shortstop, Soto has to hold at third. Nice to see Cedeno hitting well today.
  • Marquis strikes out. He's had several chances today to help his cause, but hasn't been able to get any RBI.
  • Soriano flies to left, ending the inning. 9 LOB through 5.
  • Marquis continues to pitch really well, lots of movement on pitches
  • Ramirez with another really bad approach on a routine ball, backing way up on a bouncer by Molina. Manages to field this one.
  • Jimenez taken down for Branyan, who walks. Marques gets out of it when Ryan bounces out, 5-4.
Inning 6
  • Falkenborg in. Resistance is futile.
  • with two outs, Ramirez walks, Murton singles. Monroe K's to end it.
  • Len points out that, in spite of our huge LOB number, we're hitting 5-15 with RISP.
  • A Miles single and Ankiel walk brings up Pujols with two on and no out in the sixth.
  • Pujols clobbers one, hooks foul at just the last moment.
  • Again, Pujols hooks a potential extra-base-hit just foul.
  • Finally, flies out to left. Runners hold at 1 and 2.
  • Edmonds take another called strike three on a pretty remarkable cutter that started at his hip and tailed back over the plate. 2 outs.
  • Ludwick walks, loading the bases.
  • Spiezio grounds to second, and Marquis escapes the inning. Still 4-0
Inning 7
  • Leading off, Soto singles through the left-side hole, and now is 4-4. Cedeno strikes out swinging. Marquis' bad day batting continues as he bunts into a strike out. Soriano walks. Derosa bounces out to end the inning, 13 LOB.
  • Cairo with a one-out double in the bottom of the seventh. Marquis finally showing some signs of struggle in the last two innings. Marmol in for Marquis.
  • Marmol's first pitch is to the backstop, Cairo to third.
  • Schumaker pinch hits for Ryan, and singles through the first base hole. 4-1.
  • Miles K's swinging at a slider. 2 outs.
  • Ankiel walks, bringing up the potential tying run in the form of Pujols.
  • Pujols hits yet another foul home run.
  • 3-2 count, Pujols pops foul but no one can quite get to it. Soto's groin runs right into one of the cameras, for an interesting replay look. Pujols walks on a slider just off the plate.
  • Edmonds up, bases loaded, it looks like Eyre might come in for Marmol? No, in comes Howry, instead.... bases loaded, 2 outs in the 7th for Howry vs. Edmonds.
  • Edmonds 4-9 vs. Eyre, 1-8 against Howry, lifetime.
  • Edmonds pops out to Lee. Still 4-1
Inning 8
  • Percival in. Ramirez pops up, and like last night vs. Springer, sort of looks at the sky and discards the bat in disgust, while standing at home plate.
  • Murton walks with two outs.
  • Funny shot of an area of stands that is just full of Pujols jerseys. Insert your own pun, here ___________
  • Fuld in to run, Pie hitting after having entered game for Monroe in the sixth.
  • Fuld running, and Pie blasts one to right. Barely foul, and at least a dozen rows deep in the bleachers.
  • Wild pitch sends Fuld to second. Pie ends the inning on a pop foul to third.
  • Soto drops a Howry fastball just off the corner. It drops right in front of him, he hunts for it, finds it, throws it back to Howry. I point this out because I can't remember the last time I saw a pitched ball hit the dirt in any way, and the umpire (and batter, for that matter) let the ball remain in play for the next pitch. Anyway, Ludwick walks to start the bottom of the 8th.
  • Spiezio hits one deep into the RF corner. Fuld, playing right, makes a high leaping catch, grabbing the ball at the top of his leap and at a point that appeared to be directly above the foul line. Crashes lightly into the foul wall. Great catch. Officially, it's a foul-out.
  • Molina singles, and Schumaker with a 2-out rbi single past Cedeno, up the middle. 4-2 after 8.
Inning 9
  • Soto finally makes an out when he lines out on a ball to the back of the warning track in right. Soto has really nice hair. Percival with an otherwise uneventful inning
  • Ankiel, Pujols and a pinch-hitter to face Dempster in the ninth, 4-2 game.
  • Edmonds grounds to lee, 3-1. Pujols won't be the tying run when he comes up.
  • Pujols lines one back up the middle.
  • Taguchi in to pinch-hit. a 6-4-3 GIDP later, and cubs win.
Parachat Recap Inning 1 Settling in, talking about Mulder, outfield positioning. Inning 2 Following the game, critiquing the Cards' announcers. Making fun of substance abuse problems. Inning 3 Fantasy football, Soto, frustration with GIDPs. UPN, WB, and other bad network TV stations. Mulder's contract. Conservatives' stereotypes about Liberals. Brewers update. Inning 4 Mulder lowered his ERA from 12.38 to 12.27 (nice catch, Crunch). The Phillies. The Wild Card race. Crazy hiccups cures. The Short Bus to the Prom More fantasy football. Inning 5 Scouting Soto. Fantasy Busts. Inning 6 Fan clubs. Halloween. Neo-con porn = Gay Frenchmen and Mexicans with fully automatic machine guns fighting over a white woman on a melting ice-cap with an oil tanker bearing down on them while atheistic high school teachers nearby lecture on Evolution and Sex-ed... Internet illiteracy. Your Mom. The Cleveland Browns/Cinci Bengals game. Inning 7 The Bears game. Scrubs vs. 2.5 Men. A WGN commercials mash-up of the foster kids, take me fishing, and garden claw gold ads. Bears game. Music producers. Bears game. Cle/Cin game. Inning 8 Eye of the Tiger, Mortal Combat, Scrubs, Bears and Cubs, oh my. A team full of midgets dressed like the Legion of Doom. Tackle Eligible TDs. Fuld's catch. Why are all these idiots in parachatting cheering as the Cards score a run? Oh, because they're cheering some football player making some good play for that team that also plays in Chicago. His name is Hester Prynne like from the Scarlet Letter or something. Inning 9 More prattle about this irrelevant other game being played in another sport. Following the end to the Cubs game.
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Comments

In all seriousness, go Bears.

Neo-con porn = Gay Frenchmen and Mexicans with fully automatic machine guns fighting over a white woman on a melting ice-cap with an oil tanker bearing down on them while atheistic high school teachers nearby lecture on Evolution and Sex-ed…

Good. Golly.

The Brewers won the division tie coin flip, right? If so, that sucks as this MIL team is deadly at home. They are 47-27 now. The way things are going, that Monday game is looking to be a realistic possibility.

Who is going to blink first? Go Cubs!!!

The Brewers won the division tie coin flip, right?

Brewers are at Cubs in case of a tie.

Yep.

What's the capacity of Fenway Park, mannytrillo?

36K I think.

Dave is correct. Tiebreaker at Wrigley if needed, the Monday after the regular season ends.

It's worthless now but the Brewers won the coin flip against St. Louis

"Gay Frenchmen and Mexicans with fully automatic machine guns fighting over a white woman on a melting ice-cap with an oil tanker bearing down on them while atheistic high school teachers nearby lecture on Evolution and Sex-ed…"

That sounds like the review of Quentin Tarrentino's next movie.

Yes, but which part will Quentin insist on playing poorly because his ego is ridiculously huge?

CWTP:
"What’s the capacity of Fenway Park, mannytrillo?"

Do teams bus of fly between Milwaukee and Chicago?

Cubster:
"Tiebreaker at Wrigley if needed, the Monday after the regular season ends."

Cool, much better. But that is weird as when I got my playoffs invoice for my season tickets, they did not add that game in there. In years past, I recall paying for that game and getting refunded if it didn't happen. Oh well...

Watching that uppercut Murton has developed makes me wonder what he might have done if they had just left him in right all season.

This is the deepest Cub team I've ever seen. I have to rub my eyes to believe I'm seeing guys like Murton, C-Mo and Soto come off the bench.

Do teams bus of(sic) fly between Milwaukee and Chicago?

I don't know. Why would I? Do they? Like I said, I fly the same distance three days a week because it's much faster.

"Do teams bus of(sic) fly between Milwaukee and Chicago"

They take Amtrak, right?

Or - maybe they just drive their fancy cars up.

I remember the Bulls players such as Pip and MJ used to.

and safer, too.

this is the link to the coin flip tiebreaker games and sites

(Corporate Shilling annoncement):

If it doesn't get too annoying to me, or to you, I'm going to try to use a new MVN feature linking player names back to the reference website First Inning. (A website I actually consult on my own free will, from time to time.)

The plan, as I understand it, is to make money for a bunch of people who do not go by the pseudonym "Transmission."

Anyway, that explains some of the links you see up there, for the first time.

CWTP:
"What’s the capacity of Fenway Park, mannytrillo?"

But to answer your question:
According to the Boston Red Sox official site:
For Night Games - 36,108
For Day Games - 35,692

According to ESPN.com:
For Night Games - 36,525
For Day Games - 36,109

According to Baseball-Reference.com, the highest announced attendance this year at Fenway has been 37,216 (assuming the extra is counting SRO's).

Hope that helps...

i wonder how much more playing time
soto has earned and i would think
blanco can just keep his spot on the bench,
and off the playoff roster.

Watching that uppercut Murton has developed makes me wonder what he might have done if they had just left him in right all season.

If his 800 major league at bats are any clue, he'd've done 20 home runs by the end of the season.

According to Baseball-Reference.com, the highest announced attendance this year at Fenway has been 37,216

That's not the capacity. Try again.

CWTP:
"That’s not the capacity. Try again.'

You are correct,but I never said it was. The capacity would be how many people would be allowed into Fenway Park legally by code. I am not sure the capacity is a number that is known to the public. But the seating capacity is pretty obviously in the low 36,000's.

as when I got my playoffs invoice for my season tickets, they did not add that game in there
======
Manny: excellent issue. I did the math on my playoff ticket invoice and it doesn't include a tiebreaker. It does assume 3 NLDS and 4 NLCS games (3 WS, which is based on the AL all-star win). I don't think the team with 3 NLDS games (of 5) can be determined until all teams have clinched. Same is true for the 4 home games in the NLCS (of 7).

So they make you pay for 10 postseason games and there is likely to be 8-10 depending on who is playing who in the playoffs.

So if there is a tiebreaker, coming from the NL Central it's a bit less likely that they will have 10 home postseason games and a tiebreaker game will be accounted for somewhere.

The key for MLB playoff clubs is they get the maximum payments up front and refund or credit accounts later.

And you are probably right, I also recall paying for a tiebreaker ticket but the last time they printed playoff tix was in 2004. So somebody probably goofed if the goal is to squeeze every dollar out of us as soon as they can get our cash.

Cubster:
"So somebody probably goofed if the goal is to squeeze every dollar out of us as soon as they can get our cash."

That is very un-Cubs like. They usually do a very good job of squeezing..:) It will be interesting to see how they handle it if there is one. Since it would be a "regular season game", you would think they would charge those prices and not the inflated playoff prices.

The Cardinals are done.

Nice week. The Cubs did pretty much what they could have hoped to have done. Now they need to take care of business against the Reds, Pirates and Marlins, while the Brewers play the Astros, Braves, Cardinals and Padres.

is a tie-breaker game a regular season game or a post-season game?

* * * * * * *

awful glad to see the b-team take care of business today. not so glad to see the feast and famine approach to offense; crooked numbers are swell but so are the add-on runs that can be had. they will be needed in the (near) future.

never mind on the 1st half of 27.

2007 Postseason Fact Sheet says:

During the Division Series and LCS, home field advantage is give to the team with the highest winning percentage during the regular season. The AL is the home team for the WS.

(It DOESN'T say that teams in the same division do not play each other in the Division Series. The wild card winner will not play the division champion if they are in the same division. )

NLDS dates:
Game 1, 10-3 Wed
Game 2, 10-4 Thurs
Game 3, 10-6 Sat
Game 4, 10-7 Sun
Game 5, 10-9 Tues

NLCS dates:
Game 1, 10-11 Thurs
Game 2, 10-12 Fri
Game 3, 10-14 Sun
Game 4, 10-15 Mon
Game 5, 10-17 Wed
Game 6, 10-19 Fri
Game 7, 10-20 Sat

World Series:
Game 1, 10-24 Wed
Game 2, 10-25 Thurs
Game 3, 10-27 Sat
Game 4, 10-28 Sun
Game 5, 10-29 Mon
Game 6, 10-31 Wed (Halloween)
Game 7, Nov 1st Thursday

a tie breaker is considered a regular season game.

the Cubs/Giants tiebreaker in 1998 was game #163

fantastic weekend......the brewers were hoping/thinking that if they won 2/3 they would pick up at least a half game and be tied, instead they're one back when the cubs only have 12 games left. if marshall or trachsel see the mound the rest of the year it's only in a blowout. marquis is getting his ground balls and that's awesome. it's all in our hands.

who's joining me in cincy for the last series of the year?

Green Lantern:
"it’s all in our hands."

Very True...

But MIL fans are saying the exact same thing.

But it is nice to have games in the final 2 weeks mean something again. It has been 3 years.

Cubster:
"(It DOESN’T say that teams in the same division do not play each other in the Division Series. The wild card winner will not play the division champion if they are in the same division. )"

I was thinking the same thing, but I have not heard or read anything that says the rule has changed.

one more thought on the tiebreaker...the coin flips were Sept 6th but the teams were allowed to print up playoff tickets (actually send e-mail invoices on 8-31) before the coin flip. That still shouldn't have prevented them from putting the cost of a theoretical tiebreaker game in the invoice. Somebody goofed to the amount of 30,000 season ticket seats x whatever the average ticket price is. If I say $50 just to use a very round number...that cost them temporary control of approx. $1.5 million in cash. Hmmmm. Small potatoes for them but might not be for the person who gets blamed for mucking that one up.

H. Vaughn — September 16, 2007 @ 5:57 pm

This is the deepest Cub team I’ve ever seen. I have to rub my eyes to believe I’m seeing guys like Murton, C-Mo and Soto come off the bench.
------------------------------------------------

Very true. The bench is nice this year. Gotta give good ol' Teflon some credit there.

"Somebody goofed to the amount of 30,000 season ticket seats x whatever the average ticket price is."

The Cubs have 30,000 season ticket holders? I know there is a waiting list but I always wondered how many tickets they won't sell off as season tix. The crazy part is that if they offered 43,000 season ticket packages, i think they would sell them all.

my 30K number is a guess on my part...it might be more (or less) but some are partial packages of weekend and night games only and those customers are only guaranteed one or two seats to each post-season series. I just wanted to use a round number to get an estimate of what the dollar impact was of not including the tiebreaker when invoicing the season ticket holders.

It could go horribly wrong from here, but, so far in Sept., Hendry's off-season moves are looking good:

- Lilly
- Marquis
- Soriano
- Floyd
- Ward
- DeRosa

Good Sept. stuff from each of them.

The way things are going, that Monday game is looking to be a realistic possibility.

If the rest of the season plays out like Manny predicted at the start of the week, then the Cubs will win the division.

Of course, that would involve bringing a little optimism to TCR...

Bleeding Blue:
"If the rest of the season plays out like Manny predicted at the start of the week, then the Cubs will win the division."

Yeah, let's hope I am finally right about something...:)

I'm optimistic enough that it's time to start tracking the magic number.

Reminds me of being in 7th grade, following the 1989 team and writing the new magic number each day onto the paper-bag cover to my science textbook.

Derek Jeter = CLUTCH

Nuff said.

Silly Manny,

clutch doesn't exist at TCR.

Game 6 of the series is on Halloween? I'm sure my kid'll understand :-)

ESPN announcers:
36,543 another sell out at Fenway Park...Hmm??

Jaba Chamberlain is human. He just gave up his first ER of his career.

One thing this team has that the '03 playoff team never had:

Zeus!

"It could go horribly wrong from here, but, so far in Sept., Hendry’s off-season moves are looking good..."

ALL WOULD AGREE except for Manny. He cannot bring himself to give any credit al all to Hendry.

Major move was a NON-move: hanging on to JJones.

al all=at all

Major move was a NON-move: hanging on to JJones.

AND... not trading Rich Hill.

I still think we would be in pretty good shape if we had traded Hill and Prior for Tejada and Bedard.

Cubs win, and the bench boys, Soto, Cedeno and Murton make me look smart!

Rick Morrisey this morning on THE BLUNDER,

"We'll apply copious amounts of hindsight here, but the Cubs should have brought up Soto, the Pacific Coast League's most valuable player, when they traded Barrett to San Diego in June."

I still think we would be in pretty good shape if we had traded Hill and Prior for Tejada and Bedard.

Sure... but wasn't it Balt. who was unwilling to part with Bedard?

billybucks — September 16, 2007 @ 7:29 pm

It could go horribly wrong from here, but, so far in Sept., Hendry’s off-season moves are looking good:

- Lilly
- Marquis
- Soriano
- Floyd
- Ward
- DeRosa

Good Sept. stuff from each of them.
-----------------------------------

Very true. It is very hard not to give Hendry a lot of credit for the offseason at this point.

He put the players (and manager) in place to be extremely competitive. If we hadn't experienced the power outage from Soriano, Aramis and DLee we would be running away with this division.

The rumor was that Hendry wanted Bedard to replace Prior in the rotation (ha ha ha) and so Baltimore said 'well, if we are replacing people, then we want Hill to replace Bedard', at which point Hendry said 'no way'.

Of course, that was just the rumor, and some of it may have been fabricated by the TCR faithful.

The crazy part is that if they offered 43,000 season ticket packages, i think they would sell them all.

To 20,000 fans and 43,000 scalpers, sadly enough.

Morrissey: the Cubs should have brought up Soto . . . in June.

The heck with June, put him in the lineup tonight! This would be a no-brainer for most teams, but for some reason it's a dilemma for the Cubs.

Soto could give the Cubs a big lift right about now. So could a couple of other rookies. It's hard to get a veteran to do what Sam Fuld did in right yesterday. I love Derrek Lee, but at this point in his career he's reluctant to even dive for grounders. (I admit, though, that Jones and Floyd still have a youthful attitude about walls.)

About the time Soto got his fourth hit yesterday, one of the Card announcers said, "We're going to be watching him for a long time."

I know that feeling. I had the same thought watching Ryan Braun in a weekend series in Wrigley at the end of June.

So could a couple of other rookies.

Like who?

I love Derrek Lee, but at this point in his career he’s reluctant to even dive for grounders.

Seriously? Not in the games that I watch. DLee often dives for ground balls .

Play Soto because if the Cubs make it they play AZ who runs and God willing if they win they will probably play the Mets that have Reyes.

Side note:
My aunt passed away last week at 83, she was a huge Cubs fan. She took my Dad to his first Cubs game in 1938.

He doesn't remember who they played but know Big Bill Lee pitched that day. Look up his stats for that year. WOW!
They took a trolley from Midway to Wrigley for 3 cents.

Thought I share, I'm heading to her funeral.

GO Cubs!!

Not in the games that I watch.

I don't know what games you watch.

And there are different ways of watching.

When Lee reaches for a ball and misses, or it goes off his glove, I ask myself, What if he had dived?

You don't. And yet we both watched the same thing.

You're a literalist. (There, I've resorted to name-calling.)

When Lee reaches for a ball and misses, or it goes off his glove, I ask myself, What if he had dived?

Maybe the Cubs should replace DLee then.

What rookies could "give the Cubs a big lift" again?

Play Soto because [he'll throw out runners]

Play him because he'll send some souvenirs out to the bleacher fans.

Besides, Kendall is 8 for 42 (190/292/262) in September.

E-Man:
"ALL WOULD AGREE except for Manny. He cannot bring himself to give any credit al all to Hendry."

HA! HA! HA!

Firstly, I have given Hendry plenty of credit in the past when he deserved it. As for this year, he has done a decent job assembling the team. He was given a ton of money to spend and he spent it. But let's be honest, this team is only 6 games above .500, in a shitty division after spending like $350 million this offseason and having basically no injuries (only losing Alf for a month).

What rookies could “give the Cubs a big lift” again?

Pie and Fontenot. (Also, Hart.) Don't get on the wrong side of history with Pie. He's not chopped liver.

Don’t get on the wrong side of history with Pie. He’s not chopped liver.

And you think that Pie would have done better than Jones has been playing everyday?

Fontenot.

Over who? He is not a better hitter or fielder than DeRosa.

John McDonough today on what he likes about Lou (who replaced Dusty):

""One thing that was very important to me, what Lou said during my interview with him is, 'I really like young players.' He said it twice.

"And for everything else he brought to this organization, to hear him say that was big because I think it's important they've given these kids a chance. All of them are proving they deserve it. You're going to see young players being a big part of our future. Carlos Marmol, Ryan Theriot, Mike Fontenot, Geovany Soto ... these are all great stories, and [Felix] Pie is absolutely going to be in the mix.

Speaking of young guys...any early predictions on what happens with Sean Marshall next year?

Even when he threw the ball well, he was a 5-inning pitcher and Lou was pretty skillful at getting him out right before he would get lit up, I thought. Does he get better next year and become a rotation fixture, get traded, or bounce in and out of the rotation? Or become our primary lefty reliever and long man?

“”One thing that was very important to me, what Lou said during my interview with him is, ‘I really like young players.’ He said it twice.

Don't tell VA Phil... he thinks that Lou, and the Cubs, hate to play young players.

Even when he threw the ball well, he was a 5-inning pitcher

Well... 11 of his 19 starts have gone more than 5 innings.

I do agree that he struggles to go deep into games at times. And his numbers against teams the the third time around are pretty awful (even in comparison to other guys in the same situation).

But he is young (just turned 25) and cheap. I would also argue that Marshall has been one of the best #5 starters in baseball. So unless the Cubs are really confident with Gallagher or Hart (and maybe they are), I actually like Marshall coming back in the #5 spot.

With that said, Marshall would probably be one of the Cubs prime trading options in an effort to bring in a CF or RF. But I can also see the Cubs being pretty willing to move forward with a combination of Jones/Pie/Murton in CF and RF.

Pie's having a terrible year, VA Phil. Just piss poor awful. After yesterday he's 214/269/339.

Come on. Seriously. You can't put him in there right now and cross your fingers. Especially when Jacque is at least 50 points higher in all three of those statistics. And he's the team's hottest hitter in the last week.

There hasn't really been as many young players given a shot this year as one would think, and for the most part what we have seen from them is nothing special. The only young players who have been given more than a little a chance to play this year are:

1) Theriot - .685 OPS, nice defender, but nothing special overall.
2) Fontenot - see above with a little higher OPS.
3) Murton - Playing time cut from last year, and has regressed.
4) Pie - disaster
5) Pagan - disaster
6) K. Hill - disaster
7) Cedeno - disaster
8) R. Hill - nice first full season. basically .500 with a 4.00 ERA. Couldn't expect much better.
9) Marshall - ditto from R. Hill for the most part
10) Marmol - NASTY, very pleasant surprise. Future closer??

I wouldn't consider anyone else getting a real shot.

2) Fontenot - see above with a little higher OPS.

Except Fontenot is NOT a "nice defender."

There hasn’t really been as many young players given a shot this year as one would think

That is ten young guys - all either rookies or second year players (K. Hill has played in 4 different season, with minimal playing time). That is a decent amount of youth.

And there are not really other players are have deserved to get a shot that are not on that list.

Side note:
My aunt passed away last week at 83, she was a huge Cubs fan. She took my Dad to his first Cubs game in 1938.
-------------------------------------------------
Sorry for your loss, Jacos. Like most all of our relatives, I'm also sorry she never got to see them win it all....

Come on, Wes, and dave. I know that this is uncomfortable territory for us Cubs fans to be in, but can't you guys at least stop calling certain Cubs players "disasters" and enjoy the moment while it lasts?? The Cubs are in first place in mid-late September!!! I am so accustomed to tuning the Cubs out by late August, then starting to fish around as much as I can for Packers and Penguins news. I don't even have time to read about obscure roster moves those teams have made in this year's preseason... This is great stuff! Try to enjoy it, guys!

Come on manny, Koyie Hill can singlehandedly allow pitchers to throw a fastball and an offspeed pitch at the SAME TIME!

I would disagree about Theriot, I think he will be a quite good player. Let's not forget this is his first full year hitting, and he has had stretches of very good hitting, with some stretches of slumps, which is what you'd expect from a first year player. He is fast, and though I dislike stealing, he was pretty good at it this year.

He's not going to have power, but he will get on base a lot and do some good things on the bases with his speed. Perfect top of the order guy. He also has an .864 Zone Rating, which is 4th in the NL among SSs.

And screw tools or potential, Theriot is going to a better career SS then Cedeno. Cedeno has shown nothing at all.

ONLY 10 young players were given a shot this year?

ONLY??? What's even more impressive is that most of the people you listed were given a chance even when there was a "proven veteran" blocking their path. Some of them did better than others, but they weren't played only because it was the manager's only choice.

And Pagan was a disaster? That's a bit harsh.
Pie's been a disappointment, I wouldn't say that's a disaster either. Even though his bat has been below expectations, he's still providing a nice addition defensively.

I would not call any of those players disasters. The most disappointing of the bunch, in my opinion, is Cedeno, but even he came through with a 2-out RBI yesterday... I would not say that Murton has changed much from last year. He just has not been put in the lineup. I don't think that anyone even expected Koyie Hill to be in the Cubs lineup at all, so I wouldn't call him a disaster. Pie has not been a disaster, either. He is a very young player, being put in a position that may hinder his development by not playing every day.

BTW....

In Center Field this year...

Jones:
RF (range factor - Range Factor ((PO + A) * 9 divided by innings)): 2.85
ZR (The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.): .911

Pie:
RF: 2.62
ZR: .925

Jones is 5th among NL CF in range factor (with over 500 innings) and is 3rd in ZR among the same group.

They have been very similar defensive players this year. And Jones obviously brings more the plate right now.

No, no, I'm with you Jace. Don't get me wrong. But, do you get decent output from Pie if you play him every day down the stretch, or do you get more 600 OPS? Nobody knows. And that's a problem.

I don't particularly find that two weeks left in a pennant race is the time for prospect experiments, regardless of how highly touted they are or what their numbers are in AAA. There's a method to EARNING more playting time, and Felix has not succeeded at it. He hasn't been given a fair shake because he's done nothing with the bat to earn more looks. Theriot did it. Fontenot did it. Jones did it after the All-Star Break. Soto's making a good run at it as we speak.

Felix's numbers in the show tell me that he shouldn't be moved from his current role for the remainder of this season. He's done a great job there as a late defensive replacement. He's still valuable. But, he's just had a bad year at the plate against big league pitching. It happens when you're young. Get some work in while there is snow on the ground and get after it in March.

I should say when I say disaster I mean for the 2007 season, not necessarily what I think their careers will be.

And I don't care how good your defense is or any other things you got going for you, lines like these are disasters for your top prospect in his first year:
Pie: .214/.269/.339/.608

Pie's still just 22 and his first years numbers include the sample size of just 168 ABs.

His numbers are certainly disappointing, but he's basically only gotten an extended cup of coffee. If the Cubs had gone into the year expecting him to be the starter in CF, then yes, I'd say his line would be disasterous. But considering the actual situation, saying its a disaster seems like a case of looking for things to blow out of proportion.

Yeah, okay, Wes, I see what you're saying. I agree. Man, I wish today was a day game...

Don’t tell VA Phil . . .

Actually, Dave, I do believe that Lou genuinely likes young players, including Pie and Fontenot. I'm not saying they should be starting (or that they shouldn't). Soto is a different matter.

It's probably not going to happen, and I'm not complaining about it, but I wouldn't mind Pie being given another shot before his rookie season slips away. I still think he's going to burst onto the scene at some point. When he does, the talent level on the Cubs will go up. And talent comes out in big games.

I'll probably have to wait till next year for Pie. Jones has done a nice job, and even Floyd is starting to hit. I will say this: if you can wait half a season for Jones and five months for Floyd, you can wait a couple more years for Pie, Murton and Cedeno.

Can someone please tell me why Theriot and Fontenot are always in "young player" discussions? Theriot will be twenty freaking eight before free agency, and Fontenot isn't far behind.

Was Cesar Izturis young? Is Matt Holliday a kid? Austin Kearns? Teixeira?

^^^ to clarify, "before free agency" means this year's signing period. Theriot won't last long enough to attain free agency.

"Can someone please tell me why Theriot and Fontenot are always in “young player” discussions? "

We use the word 'young' but should say players with little major league experience.

Ron Galt:
"Can someone please tell me why Theriot and Fontenot are always in “young player” discussions? Theriot will be twenty freaking eight before free agency, and Fontenot isn’t far behind."

They are young players in terms of MLB service time. This is their first full seasons in the bigs. But I do understand what you are saying and yes, it should be a little bit of a red flag that these guys are this old, just basically making it to the majors.

it should be a little bit of a red flag that these guys are this old, just basically making it to the majors.

not this shit again!!

I'll tell you who it's a red flag for. It's a red flag for Dustbag who had both of them up two years ago and refused to look.

CWTP:
"It’s a red flag for Dustbag who had both of them up two years ago and refused to look."

Some more revisionist history...WOO!!!

Theriot was called up in 2005 on 9/12/05 and stayed on the team thru the end of the year. Fontenot was called up on 4/11/05 and sent back down on 4/23/05.

How did he refuse to look when they were each there for like 2 weeks? Oh brother...

Manny-How much did Theriot play in 2006 behind the cavalcade of crap the Dusty played ahead of him?
May- 4 AB's in 2 weeks
July- 11 AB's
August: 15/38
Sept/Oct 27/83

Now we all know that Theriot isn't as good as he hit in the last 6 weeks of 2006, but sitting behind Cedeno, Neifi!, Fast Freddie, Jerry Hairston, Tony Womack, Cesar Izturis, Paul Popovich and Mick Kelleher

A little revisionist? Sure...
A little right? Sure...

Dusty Baylor-
So now you are talking about 2006, CWTP was talking about 2 years ago (2005).

If you want to talk about last year Theriot was behind Cedeno at SS. Cedeno was a youngster too, he was given the job out of ST, and failed miserably. I wish Dusty made a move and got him out of there, no matter who replaced him, but he stuck with him. He could of played him at 2B though after walker was moved around to make up for Lee.

so which one of you geniuses know whether the advanced instruction theriot got helped him become the player he is today...aka, the same old singles hitting, take a walk, scrap-de-luxe player he is?

until you know what he was doing here in 05/06 its without merit to say he was doing nothing or wasted.

not everyone shows up to the bigs ready to play the bigs.

btw...ask brian giles about that...

If you want to talk about last year Theriot was behind Cedeno at SS.

Uhh... no he wasn't. He was expected to play 2b last year. He played a total of 2 games and 17 innings at SS last year.

Good try though.

Dave:
"He was expected to play 2b last year. He played a total of 2 games and 17 innings at SS last year.

Good try though."

Tell that to Dusty Baylor who said Theriot was sitting behind Cedeno, Izturis among others last year.

Manny..it's nice to see you here posting the same old Dusty Baker litany of excuses and defenses.

Please excuse me, I retract my earlier list, and now include only luminaries as Neifi Perez, Tony Womack, and Freddie Bynum. That better for you?

Also:
"Firstly, I have given Hendry plenty of credit in the past when he deserved it. As for this year, he has done a decent job assembling the team. He was given a ton of money to spend and he spent it. But let’s be honest, this team is only 6 games above .500, in a shitty division after spending like $350 million this offseason and having basically no injuries (only losing Alf for a month)."
Ramirez DL trip?
This was a team that was 66-96 last season. They stunk. Hendry went and got 2 starting pitchers, and a LF and 2B. There was some serious money spent.
However, it is silly to bitch that the Cubs spent $350 million in the offseason. Of course they did...the total amount over the next 3 seasons or so. When discussing payrolls, people discuss what the current season's payroll is...not what it is cumulative over the next 3 seasons. What's the payroll this season...$105...$110 million?
In 2009, any number of contracts could be gone via trade, or other contracts let go via free agency.
This team should be better than they are right now, but I'll take first place, and if they finish only 84-78, that is still a HUGE turnaround from last season's mailed in, lackluster effort.

Dusty Baylor:
"This team should be better than they are right now, but I’ll take first place, and if they finish only 84-78, that is still a HUGE turnaround from last season’s mailed in, lackluster effort."

I would accept 84-78, if it means making the playoffs, but with that high of a payroll, that much money spent this offseason, 84 wins, but no playoffs, isn't acceptable to me no matter how much the improvement.

Then Manny, you are an idiot.
An 18 win improvement in one season, from a team that was that bad last season, is a really good turnaround.

Good luck with your contrarian bullshit.

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