What’s Your Type?

Elias has released their annual player rankings which MLB uses to determine free agent draft pick compensation if a player signs with another team and is offered arbitration by their former team. It's a rather insane system based off the last two years worth of numbers that relies heavily on the triple crown numbers and counting stats. A ranking that has five players higher than Alex Rodriguez and one in which Troy Percival would net the Cards a supplemental pick. Players are classified into five categories:
  1. DH, 1B, OF
  2. 2b, 3b, SS
  3. Catchers
  4. Starting Pitchers
  5. Relief Pitchers
The new collective bargaining agreement has lowered the percentages meaning less players would net their former teams draft picks. Type A free agents are considered the top 20% at their position and Type B are from the 21-40% range. Under the old CBA, Type A free agents were the top 30%, Type B were from 31-50% at their position and there was a Type C for players from 51 to 60% at their position. Under the current CBA, a Type A free agent who was offered arbitration but signed with another team would cost his new team their top draft pick as long as it's not a top 15 pick, plus his former team would get a supplemental pick between the first and second rounds. If it is a top 15 pick, much like the Cubs last year in signing Alfonso Soriano, they would lose their second round pick instead. If a team signs multiple Type A free agents, they would lose their second round pick and then their third round pick and so forth and which round goes to which team is based on who scored higher in the rankings. Type B free agents cost the signing team nothing, but the previous team gets a pick in the supplemental round between the first and second rounds. Some players of interest after the jump.... Torii Hunter - Type A Kenny Lofton - Type B Alex Rodriguez - Type A Curt Schilling - Type A Aaron Rowand - Type A Mike Cameron - Type B Andruw Jones - Type B Barry Bonds - Type A Geoff Jenkins - No Compensation Cliff Floyd - No Compensation Daryle Ward - No Compensation Jason Kendall - Type B Tom Glavine - Type A Greg Maddux - Type A Steve Trachsel - No Compensation Kerry Wood - No Compensation No big surprises there except that I was hoping Kerry would have snuck in as a Type B reliever much like Percival, but not quite. The Cubs could attempt to sneak a draft pick by offering Kendall arbitration, the only problem being that he'd likely accept it. While I believe the maximum 20% paycut rule only applies to players who were eligible for arbitration the year before, the previous year's salary still weighs heavily into the decision-making process and Kendall made over $13 million last year. The Cubs best hope is that he signs with another team before the last day to offer arbitration, which is December 1st and then can safely offer him arbitration knowing he won't accept it because he's signed with a new team. Don't forget to enter TCR's Free Agent Frenzy contest and a chance to win fabulous prizes. It'll remain open until either next Monday morning or when the first free agent signs from that list, whichever comes first.
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Comments

So confused

Yeah - saw this last night.

A-Ram tied for 4th in Second Basemen, Third Basemen, and Shortstops catagory with Atkins and Cabrera.

DLEE comes in tied for 23rd in his catagory of 1B and OF.

Kendall 10th for Catchers (noes not include arm, obviously)

Any ranking system that has 4 players at 2B, 3B or SS in the AL higher than ARod (amazingly Jeter was one of them) is seriously flawed. Hell, there aren't 4 players in any position in any league better than ARod. It is almost to the point you can't take it seriously, but MLB has to as it effects compensation. I hope they can come up with a new and improved system.

It sucks we won't be getting any compensation for any of our guys unless Kendall signs quickly with someone else, which is doubtful. Oh well...

ROB G: You are correct, sir!

An Article XX FA who accepts a 12/1 arbitration offer in lieu of remaining a FA can be offered any amount by his club without regard to the player's previous year's salary.

Last year, Todd Walker (SD) and Tony Graffanino (MIL) accepted salary arbitration in lieu of remaining a FA (and then Walker got released by the Padres in Spring Training), and the year before that, Travis Lee (TB) and Tony Graffanino (BOS) accepted salary arbitration. (I wonder if the Brewers will offer Graffanino arbitration again this time around?).

Other players who can be offered less than 80% of their previous year's salary are players who received an arbitration award the previous season at least 50% above the previous year's salary (although any cut cannot be more than 30% of his salary from two years ago), any player who becomes a FA after six years of MLB service time, six-year minor league FAs, a player who receives an outright release, a non-tender, second or more outright assignment in career, a player with at least three years of MLB ST who is outrighted and refuses assignment and chooses to be a FA, and any player with at least five years of MLB ST who is optioned to the minors and refuses the assignment and becomes a FA.

Up to 120 players who have filed for free agency.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=m...

Corey Patterson added to the list. Maybe we can get him to come back to play CF for us while we are waiting to see if Pie can hit ML pitching...(sarcasm)

mannytrillo — November 1, 2007 @ 7:21 am

It sucks we won’t be getting any compensation for any of our guys unless Kendall signs quickly with someone else, which is doubtful. Oh well…

====================

MANNY T: The best thing about Type "B" free-agents is that they don't cost their new team a draft pick, so clubs are more-willing to sign them prior to December 1st. So Jason Kendall could sign prior to 12/1, if there is a club that really wants him (like maybe SD).

It's actually better that Kendall is a Type "B" rather than a Type "A" FA as far as the Cubs possibly having a shot at getting a comp pick for him, because while the Cubs won't offer him arbitration, no club is going to worry about signing him prior to 12/1 as long as it doesn't cost the new club a #1 or #2 round pick to sign him.

While the Cubs made out pretty well getting Josh Donaldson at #48 overall in the 2007 Rule 4 Dtaft as compensation for losing FA OF Juan Pierre to the Dodgers last year, from the Dodgers POV it didn't matter that they signed him prior to 12/1 because it didn't cost them a draft pick.

mannytrillo — November 1, 2007 @ 8:59 am
Up to 120 players who have filed for free agency.

==========================

MANNY T: The only MLB players eligible to be an Article XX FA who don't file during the Free-Agency Filing Period are those who are terminally ill or dead, and even some of them will file.

Does that make Glendon Rusch an Article XX-1 FA?

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...

Trax filed for free agency, I assume that means his option wasn't picked up? Or can you file while you wait?

"terminally ill or dead"

Then cross him off the list!

(did anyone get that?)

Rob G. — November 1, 2007 @ 11:26 am
Trax filed for free agency, I assume that means his option wasn’t picked up? Or can you file while you wait?

==========================

ROB G: You can file provisionally while you wait. If the Cubs were to exercise their club option (or if the sun were to rise in the west tomorrow), then Trax would no longer be a FA.

Sounds like Team Trachsel is really putting the "full court press" on Hendry.

What will Hendry do? What WILL he do?

AZ Phil:
"What will Hendry do? What WILL he do?"

Besides eat a doughnut, he better do nothing with Trachsel.

Chad: Your right fielder has been dead for 130 years. Better call Cap Anson and Three Finger Brown.

On Mike and Mike this morning they were talking about how Doughnuts and Pumpkin Pie were the top 2 afrodisiacs for men.

Just some food for though, since we couldn't get through the day without Manny's attempts at doughnut humor

"Besides eat a doughnut, he better do nothing with Trachsel."

Manny - I think he's switched over to bagels. MAybe a bit too much cream cheese, though.

someone floated to Gammons that Miguel Cabrera will be available in the trade market this winter....

Does anybody think the Cubs should go after Aaron Rowand?

don't go after Miggy Cabrera, we'd be too right handed

(just kidding)

he's be perfect in RF but the Cubs would probably ask for him to learn how to switch hit.

Does anybody think the Cubs should go after Aaron Rowand?

Just Mike C...

too expensive for someone who doesn't fill an obvious and immediate need imo...

How about a Trade Target contest?

I'm all ears, you provide the prizes.....

no, seriously, what's your idea?

Rob G.:
"too expensive for someone who doesn’t fill an obvious and immediate need imo…"

And he will want a 3-4 year deal, so that would leave Pie on the outside looking in and force a trade. Which would be fine if we could turn him and others (Murton, Gallagher, etc.) for a huge RF or SS bat, but that is not likely.

I don't know. I was thinking maybe select any 10 to 15 players, and the team. You can 5 points for a correct trade, 15 points for a correct trade and destination team, and -1 point for a player not being traded.

Miggy Cabrera is too fat and slow. Let the Yankees pay his per diem bill.

And he will want a 3-4 year deal, so that would leave Pie on the outside looking in and force a trade.

Not really... one of them could easily move to Right.

"someone floated to Gammons that Miguel Cabrera will be available in the trade market this winter…."

That is one guy we should target over Arod. And I'm not kidding about that.

dave:
"Not really… one of them could easily move to Right."

And that would be a weak RF, which is what we have now.

Zumaya out until about AS Break next year after hurting his shoulder moving his stuff out of harms way in CA fires.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3...

Big loss for Tigers.

And that would be a weak RF, which is what we have now.

Weak? Well... that would be assuming that Pie continues to be weak. If he does, he will be weak in CF or RF, but excellent defensively in either position. If Rowand was in RF, and IF Rowand is able to continue to produce at a similar level as he did this past season, he would be a fine option in RF. When you have Lee, ARam, and Soriano, Rowand would be perfectly fine in RF.

Of course... that is making two big assumptions:

1 - Pie will actually be a viable option as an every day player in the outfield. We know he is already there defensively. Not much offensively.

2 - Rowand will/would maintain solid/good production (similar to 2007) for the next 3-4 years.

'Not really… one of them could easily move to Right.'

So pay $13 million for four years to a guy who has a career OPS .805 and bats from the wrong side of the plate to replace guys who have career OPS's of .820 and .784. Not the greatest of ideas.

I made a post about Zumaya having surgery and out till AS Break next year, but it must have gotten eaten by the TCR monsters. Go TCR!!!

alright, Cubs offseason plan...

Sign Arod, Trade for Miguel Cabrera and Johan while only giving up fringe low-level minor league players that could in no way amount to anything.

Lineup of...
Soriano, Arod, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lee, Soto, DeRosa, Pie, Sp

SP:
Johan, Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis

TCR still bitches about the lineup and we have too many lefties in the rotation.

oh, a manny post was lost briefly, what will we do?

Brewers plan to call Schilling soon, Schilling says he's been contacted by 3 teams, one of which isn't on his list.

Rob G.:
"oh, a manny post was lost briefly, what will we do?"

It happens a lot to many posters, so don't get your panties in a ruffle Rob and take it personally and take a shot at me for it. Others complain about it too, sorry if I join the crowd.

I reported that Zumaya story before Manny did, but my post got eaten too.

3/44, Manny. 3/44.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071...

some whacky rumors supposedly from Padres camp that M.Cabrera will be traded in 5 weeks and Arod might sign with the Marlins and get an ownership stake in the club.

talking about panties in a ruffle, the reasonable folks around here usually ask pretty nicely to go fetch it out of moderation, rather than making some lame-ass "Go TCR" comment.

Zumaya must be some Askimet spam keyword or something...odd.

and sorry Real Neal, there's no comments from you showing up in moderation...the Internet got hungy I guess.

So pay $13 million for four years to a guy ... Not the greatest of ideas.

I never said it was a great idea. I simply said that you would not necessarily have a weak RF as manny stated.

Are we talking about the Cabrera who has career Avg/OBA/OPS of .313/.388/.929 and over the last 4 years averaged 31 HRs, 115 RBIs, and 127 Ks? The Cabrera who will only be 25 years old in 2008?

I would see that as an upgrade over Floyd/Murton, yeah. Would they take Jacque, Murton, Gallagher and Wuertz in return?

With that said, I would not be too excited about Aaron Rowand, especially at the price tag that he would demand. But I also would not be excited about any of the available free agent CF options.

I think the argument was whether Rowand/Pie was an upgrade in RF, not Cabrera.

That being said, Cabrera was god-awful in RF right? and now just fatter and slower?

He should be playing 1b at this point but I guess you live with the bad D for the bat.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basebal...

Nate Silver's NL Central Hot Stove Preview...

says biggest need is SS for the Cubs followed by 4th starters, thinks (much like me) that the Cubs would be fine with some combo of JJ, Pie, Murton and possibly Floyd in CF/RF. Cubs so far seem to believe, OF needs more help and their fine with Theriot/Cedeno at SS.

Not one of you has mentioned a trade for Theo Epstein, or John Schuerholz - even Walt Jockety...

Without a new owner - it is one more year for Hendry!

LEt's get some friggin' OBP guys in here for Pete's sake!

That being said, Cabrera was god-awful in RF right? and now just fatter and slower?

Well... according to Baseball Reference's range numbers, he was slightly above league average in RFg (range factor by games played) and below average in RF/9. Not good, but not god-awful either.

And yea - I can live with bad defense with the kind of offense that he would bring.

What could we expect to get for a :Hendry in a deal anyway? ;-)

"...says biggest need is SS for the Cubs."

I would have enjoyed seeing them try to do something for Renteria. -sigh-

with Zumaya out, maybe they'll be interested in Dempster, Howry, Wuertz for the bullpen if nothing comes of the FA market?

since Dombrowski likes guys who throw 95+ like Hendry, I imagine Kerry will be getting a call from them.

Nate Silver’s NL Central Hot Stove Preview…says biggest need is SS for the Cubs

What?!?! Silver must not understand the amazing intangibles that Theriot brings.

Theriot is special. It is not every day where you can one of the worst offensive players at your position and still a lot of jerseys with your name on them!

That Nate Silver article is three weeks old.

I wouldn't have minded Renteria, but Jurrjens and Gorkys are pretty high-end prospects and Renteria played over his head last year.

I can't imagine anything less than Colvin/Gallagher would have even interested them.

and how do you know Hendry didn't try?

article says Nov. 1st...

was it posted at BP before it hit SI or something?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basebal...

Boras begging the Yanks to drive Arod's price up...too funny.

Boras actually seems legitimately shocked that the Yanks are mad that he pissed away $21 million from the Rangers. If he really wanted the Yanks involved, why not wait to opt out until the last minute?

well I don't have a BP subscription anymore and I'm blocked at work...sorry. i still can read SI though.

Nice to get paid twice for the same article though....

re 51

Dave, i was going to post almost the exact thing. that was a very 'Chad' post.

Dave, i was going to post almost the exact thing. that was a very ‘Chad’ post.

Trying to stay in character. Or something like that.

And would you have made the typo/missed word also?

Ooh, I forgot about work blocking internet sites. That sucks. Luckily my new company works people so hard they know there's no time to surf the net.

SS FA market is ass anyway...could go for vizquel, but he's on the wrong side of his career/age even if his D is still clockwork great.

might as well stick with the "700-800K" option cuz its not like theriot/cedeno are inept at fielding...even if its not very exciting. cedeno's trying to develop his 20hr power...theriot is...well, he's adequate compared to his peers.

"Besides eat a doughnut, he better do nothing with Trachsel."

Not sure how eating a doughnut with Trachsel solves anything for Hendry.

it's a new policy around here and it's rather annoying.

I'm going to have to find a new company that I can goof of at...

it’s a new policy around here and it’s rather annoying.

Curious why the would block BP but not sports illustrated...

Could of had's for the Cubs: Lugo. Polanco (deadline trade, '06). Lugo not too shabby in the WS and post season, $8.2MM salary this year. Go Theo!

We can save money with Theriot. He hustles.

"Curious why the would block BP but not sports illustrated…"

it probably was blocked til someone complained to the IT dude/dudettes and they opened access.

depending on how close you are to the IT department (or how fair/sane they are) they could open up access to whatever you want.

unless its a productivity directive or the IT department has a God complex its usually do-able.

Crunch = TCR Cliff Clavin

well the way it worked was they got rid of firefox and I have to use safari. Any domain that was in my bookmarks in safari before I switched to firefox about 6 months ago I can visit. I happened to have SI's scoreboard linked but no BP pages.

You can actually get around to a lot of sites by using Google image search believe it or not. It's a weird process that I won' t bother explaining.

And I probably could just ask if I could fix my bookmarks, since the policy was instituted for security issues and not to keep folks from surfing the net, but haven't gotten around to it.

lugo is horrible.

dumping renteria after 1 season over a freak-out then replacing him with a 8m dollar lugo was a chump move that's hurt BOS more than helped them.

you get some leeway to do stuff like that with your money/talent with a 140+m payroll, though.

there's no IT department....

I'll get around to fixing it, but for now I live with no BP or porn.

Rob G.:
"and how do you know Hendry didn’t try?"

Do we know that Hendry did try? Either way, we didn't land Renteria and he was one of the top guys to fill an obvious need we have.

"Crunch = TCR Cliff Clavin"

hey, i come from the computer industry. i cant access my porncity.com email accounts from work without a little help from the IT dudes! =p

Rob G.:
"Boras actually seems legitimately shocked that the Yanks are mad that he pissed away $21 million from the Rangers. If he really wanted the Yanks involved, why not wait to opt out until the last minute?"

While Boras is a prick, he has a point. Why can Posada and Riveira be allowed to go to free agency and the NYY still negotiate with them, but not with ARod. Yes him opting out cost them $21 million, but since when has money been an issue to the Yankees? It seems very hypocritical of the NYY, but it is the NYY, so it shouldn't be surprising.

crunch:
"might as well stick with the “700-800K” option cuz its not like theriot/cedeno are inept at fielding"

Cedeno has been miserable the past couple years fielding. Cedeno has no business being on the Cubs. If he has no options, he should be traded.

Could of had’s for the Cubs: Lugo.

Lugo: .237/.294/.349 8 million dollars
Lugo, playoffs: 271/340/333

Theriot: .266/.326/.346 Salary: 390 thousand

Why would you want Lugo more than Theriot again?

Why can Posada and Riveira be allowed to go to free agency and the NYY still negotiate with them, but not with ARod.

Because the Yankees (and any other team) can decide who they want to negotiate (or not negotiate) with.

If ARod wants to use his option for free agency, he also needs to understand why the Yankees would be unhappy about it and no longer having the 20 million from Texas.

Yes, dave, it is the NYY right to do that, but Cashman has said he (and thus the NYY) "can't" negotiate with ARod if he opts out. Why can't they? They can, they just choose not to. Again, it makes no sense as money has never been an issue for the NYY. Just like with Torre they are doing/saying things to try and make the other side look bad and blame them as to not why they will come back to the NYY, when if the NYY really wanted the other person to stay with the organization they could do so.

"Cedeno has been miserable the past couple years fielding."

yeah...he falls into that "lugo grey area" to me...he's capable, but if he has to pull more than one step in the process things can get iffy...and his arm has lost its accuracy.

weird stuff for a guy who made his way through the organization playing over his head based on his D.

Well, if NY really wanted Arod to stay there they probably should have moved Jeter to short when he arrived, and tried to keep him in the top 7 of the batting order. That move made Dusty's #2 lineup usage look reasonable. Pretty much they treated him like shit since they got him. That's their perogative, but why he thinks that would endear him to the organazition is beyond me.

Ha ha ha...doughnuts! Good stuff.

But seriously, is there really a porncity?

Perhaps Cashman can't negotiate because the Steinbrenners said if he opts out, the Yankees would not negotiate.

There's nothing within the rules of baseball that prohibits negotiations, but if a GM's boss says you can't negotiate with a player, then he really can't negotiate with a player.

the point being that if Arod really wanted to keep the Yanks interested, he could have waited until the deadline to opt out and giving them a shot to keep that $21 million. You can't get mad at the Yanks if they decide not to pursue you when you f*** them out of 20+ million. Whatever the past has been for the Yanks, Boras doesn't get to decide for the Yanks if they should be mad or not about losing 20+ million.

But yeah, I don't think the Yanks really want to keep him. I also think the Yanks are attempting to be a bit more financially responsible. I'm sure they'll always be tops in the league in payroll but it appears they're trying to at least no longer lap the competition (other than the Red Sox).

"But seriously, is there really a porncity?"

yeah, its a msg. board. the joke i used about a "porncity.com email address" is just a recycled joke from when they were handing out email addresses a loooooong time ago and people were like "wtf are you gonna use a porncity.com email address for?"

“But seriously, is there really a porncity?”

Yes there is a Porn City. It's very close to Pervo, UT

It's where you'll find GOB Bluth's "F**k Mountain" apartment complex for singles.

Perhaps the Yankees have come to the conclusion so aptly put by Selena Roberts of the Times on Monday when writing about A-Rod that "He isn't worth the angst. A-Rod is a almost a winning addtion to any team like a three leaf clover is almost lucky". His "TEAM" as opposed to his personal track record sucks. He obviously did nothing for the Rangers without a lot of talent and his wonderful stats did nothing to help the Yanks for which many of us are grateful. What makes so many of you think that he is the messiah that will take us to the promised land? If it didn't happen with the Yanks and the great players he was surrounded by, it most likely wouldn't happen with the boys in blue.

And why Rowand (who I love to see play) when we have Fuld who is currently tearing up the AFL? An unselfish and apparently bright ballplayer. Put him in center or right and let Mr. "5 tools" Pie see if he can figure out how to hit major league pitching over the next few years. And look for an even better year from the Jacque this year.

i've always found it weird how either hated or passively/dismissively unloved Arod is.

for as much as he's not a jerk...not had too many public missteps...doesnt bitch a lot...not full of "drama"...etc...he sure as hell doesnt get much love.

guy's one of the best players in the game but he seems to be as exciting to the general public as some 2nd string role player.

...and its not like he's a vlad-type who just could care less about the US market or making himself marketable/palatable to the general population...

it's the outrageous contract and the frosted tips I think....

never got a sense that he's liked by any of his teammates either.

the pussy slap in the playoffs didn't help.

Torre official...

Astros were the non-list team that contacted Schilling it looks like...

Torre's contract is for 3/13, with no incentives.

So just maybe his rejecting the Yankees offer wasn't just about the money?

Brick's Arrested Development reference FTW!

Well Crunch, it would be nice to have been the fly on the wall both in the Rangers clubhouse and the Yankee clubhouse. But we don't know for sure that he was a behind the scenes jerk or not. It seems that former is more likely according to the Roberts column and others. If he could somehow transfer what appears to be an "all about me" personna into what a guy like Jim Thome seems to exude as a player, the guy would most likely get 40K a year hands down.

After 67 years of which 55 give or take have been as a Cubs fan, I would like nothing more than for the Cubs to be competitive and be in the playoffs for the next decade at least and perhaps even take home the grand prize. I'd like to see it done with a group of team orientated players that know how to play the game, how to hustle all the time, give that 100% every day on the field and how to help each other win. We seem to have a several now - Soriano excluded - but we need more.

Bleeding Blue:
"There’s nothing within the rules of baseball that prohibits negotiations, but if a GM’s boss says you can’t negotiate with a player, then he really can’t negotiate with a player."

No shit, really?!?!?! But you are missing the point. I never said the NYY are doing anything illegal. I am asking, it is obvious to me the NYY really don't want to resign ARod and want to make him look like the bad guy, but why is all of a sudden money (the $21 million from TEX) an issue with the NYY, when over the past many years it never has been?

Yes if we only had 25 Theriots and Fontenots we would be so lovable and scappy and be off the charts in grit and intagibles. The only down side is that we would lose 120 games a year, but man would they try hard.

Rob G.:
"I also think the Yanks are attempting to be a bit more financially responsible. "

Well, they really aren't showing it. The only thing they are doing to show any restraint is not trading away their top minor leaguers the past couple years. They still trade for big price contracts and sign bloated FA players.

Bleeding Blue:
"So just maybe his rejecting the Yankees offer wasn’t just about the money?"

No, it had really nothing to do with the money, but everything to do with the years.

Well, Manny, you're making a big deal about Cashman saying he "can't" negotiate, when the reality is that it sounds like he can't.

I've really gotten the impression from the Steinbrenner kids so far that they really are buying into their own hype about the "honor of playing for the Yankees" and if ARod dared to make it about money more than about "getting" to play for the Yankees, then they don't want him, no matter what the price.

Of course, they're forgetting that the Uber-Contracts were the reason that people wanted to play for the Yankees much moreso than the Yankee-mistique.

“So just maybe his rejecting the Yankees offer wasn’t just about the money?”

It DID have to do with the money. AND the number of years. AND the fact that he was going to have to go through the same damn thing next year.

But most of all, it had to do with respect.

Bleeding Blue:
"Well, Manny, you’re making a big deal about Cashman saying he “can’t” negotiate, when the reality is that it sounds like he can’t."

When I say Cashman can't negotiate I mean the NYY, not Cashman personally. He is the GM and represents the organization. I referenced that point in post #77: "Cashman has said he (and thus the NYY) “can’t” negotiate with ARod if he opts out."

He obviously did nothing for the Rangers without a lot of talent and his wonderful stats did nothing to help the Yanks for which many of us are grateful.

I am pretty sure that ARod may have had at least a small role in helping the Yanks get to the playoffs. But yea - maybe they would have had rather had Ryan Theriot.

And why Rowand (who I love to see play) when we have Fuld

Because Fuld has not shown an ability to be close to the player that Rowand is. And Rowand isn't a great player.

re 95:

Vince, I am sure that some people here think that if we had 25 Ryan Theriots that we would win a world series. I truly believe that some people here think that hustle and grit are more important components to winning than, say, hitting the shit out of the ball.

Torre was on WFAN ("Mike & the Mad Dog") today and reiterated for the 3rd time over the past couple weeks that is was the years that stopped him from going ahead and accepting the deal. He would have taken the $5 million a year. He would have swallowed his pride and accepted the incentives. But he did not want to have to deal with questions about his contract all next year. But the NYY were not going to budge and they pushed him out the door.

You gotta add Murton on that Theriot and Fontenot roster, then start making the WS rings...:)

Go hustle and grit!! Screw stats and talent!!!!

Manny, my point is that I think you're making a faulty assumption when you say "and thus the NYY"

My statement about it not being about the money was aimed at those who couldn't grasp the concept that an offer could be insulting, even if it still made Torre the highest paid manager.

Bleeding Blue-
I just think Cashman is just using the wrong word. He shouldn't be saying "I can't negotiate with ARod", but should just say "I won't negotiate with ARod". I understand he is speaking for the ownership and the organization and don't think he is being literal saying he cannot negotiate with ARod even though he wants to. Again, it just doesn't make any sense to me with all teh money they throw around, that they won't even negotiate with ARod, but "supposedly" want him. They let Pettitte walk to HOU and took him back. Oh well, F the Yankees!!!!

Mr.Dave, I do hope you will consider the outside possibility that while A-Rod may have and did contribute in ways that got the Yanks into the playoffs, he may have been a or the (take your pick) major contributor to keeping the Yanks from reaching the World Series. His nickname in Texas was "the cooler" for his apparent ability to kill rallies. IMO the guy is a great baseball player and that's as far as it goes. He is not a winner. And I am sure that if the Yanks had it to do over again and Mike Lowell (a proven winner wherever he plays) were available, he would get the first nod over the precious A-Rod. I feel it would be a mistake for the Cubs to go after him.

As for Rowand, I feel one of the big mistakes made by Kenny Williams was to trade him to the Phillies for Thome. They may have won again in 06 with Rowand in center. But that's just me.

Fuld is 26 and seems to be able to play
defensively more than just fairly well. If he can hit better than Pie at the Major League level - which almost seems a given - he deserves the opportunity. If he falls flat on his face then both AZ Phil and I were are wrong. I don't think he will tho.

"His nickname in Texas was “the cooler” for his apparent ability to kill rallies."

which was totally unwarrented because his "lack of clutch" isnt backed up by his actual stats...

07 w/ RISP - .460 /.678 (ob%/slg)
07 w/ RISP + 2 outs - .448/.776

06 w/ RISP - .431/.508
06 w/ RISP + 2 outs - .495/.475

05 w/ RISP - .410/.484
05 w/ RISP + 2 outs - .429/.512

...much like many other "assumed truths" that the press just regurgitates over time...this whole "arod cant do shit when it matters" angle doesnt hold much water under inspection. i mean hell, its not even close to bad.

wow, you know you present a horrible argument when crunch busts out the stats to prove how ridiculous your post is, was, and forever will

#107 needs to go somewhere in the TCR Hall of Fame

I honestly don't know where to even start

k...im an idiot...i touched on the new york aspect of his hounding...in a statement where i directly picked up on a texas quote. neat-o crunch.

02 RISP - .479/.752
02 RISP + 2 out - .429/.456

03 RISP - .380/.524
03 RISP + 2 out - .435/.520

...dont have 01 stats...

a lot of his complaints that hold any water in the past seems to be about him taking walks with guys on rather than swinging...but on whole it seems the difference between going solo with the HR's and HR's with runners on isnt that much of a difference taking multiple years into account.

the thing about how ridiculous this whole "arod sucks in the clutch" thing is how many media outlets push the view.

i mean, we're not even talking about much of a difference or obvious failure.

numbers dont tell the whole story every time, but a .400 ob% and .500 slugging speaks for itself. that's universal "good".

01 RISP - .402/.647
01 RISP + 2 out - .390/.569

It's going to get really fun around here when the A-Rod rumors actually, you know, start.

well, it's not hard to figure out where the perception came from about Arod being Mr. Unclutchy and a team killer. It's just a perception and there's plenty of superficial things to point at...

he leaves Seattle and they go on and win 116 games
sells his soul to Texas for a kajillion dollars and they suck
he joins the Yanks and can't buy a hit in the playoffs, the team wins only one playoff series in his time and is part of the ultimate choke team ever

Are they all his fault? Of course not, but when you're Mr. 200 million, the fingers gets pointed at you particularly by a media only interested in the superficial.

btw Sabean says they'll "kick the tires" on Arod but don't think it's practical.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3...

and if it wasn't clear, I think it's ridiculous reputation but I think it's obvious why he got that reputation as well.

Rob G.:
"he leaves Seattle and they go on and win 116 games"

Yet ironically they get booted out of the playoffs in the ALCS vs the NYY.

that's not ironic at all....

if Arod was playing for the Yanks in 2001, then it might be....

It would be ironic if it wasn't just blind luck.

I can't wait until the Cub's sign Arod.

Mr.Crunch A-Rods stats are impressive and as I stated he is a great baseball player especially stat wise during the regular season. I don't know if you have answers on other than stats but fill me in on these questions. Why was Tom Hicks, who it seems easily could have paid the apparent best stat baseball player ever his full contract, so eager to get rid of him and even pay millions of dollars to another club just to be rid of him? Certainly not his stats. Was it personal? Was A-Rod a cancerous jerk behind the scenes in the clubhouse as some in the media have alluded to?

I ask these as a small business owner who has seen his share of incredibly talented people who are so full of themselves they bring the whole group down by their personal on the job behavior and have to be terminated, at times at great cost, for the benefit of the group and the business. I wholeheartedly agree with the recently departed Philly G.M. Pat Gillick when asked during the playoffs what were the most important things he looked for in a ball player. As I recall he said that he first thought it was all about talent and stats. But he came to realize that it was more about character, passion and desire than it was only about talent. If it were only about talent, A-Rod would be winning rings every year.

So Crunch, you and the other stat heads can bandy them about all you want. One of the better G.M.'s who has forgotten more than I will ever know and most likely you will ever know about baseball thinks there are more important things than the talent and stats. As I business owner, I concur. As a baseball and Cubs fan, I feel we could do better without the full of himself A-Rod. Not to mention his agent.

Rob G.:
"that’s not ironic at all…."

It is ironic to me as SEA had a great regular season that year, but a disappointing postseason. Much like many ARod detractors claim of ARod. And to me it is ironic that the the year after ARod left SEA something that ARod gets bashed for happened to his former team. And some ARod detractors use to show ARod isn't a winner by his former team winning 116 games after he left.

"So Crunch, you and the other stat heads can bandy them about all you want."

im uh...not exactly a stat head.

however... .400 ob% and .500 slugging speaks for itself, imo. there's a lot of grey area in interpreting some stats, but that's well above the debatable level of "good" for both.

"Why was Tom Hicks, who it seems easily could have paid the apparent best stat baseball player ever his full contract, so eager to get rid of him and even pay millions of dollars to another club just to be rid of him?"

cuz 1/3rd of the payroll was going to 2 guys (c.park) and there were 23 other people to pay...

hicks gave arod a stupid deal and did the best he could to clean up the mess. verdict is mixed on how well he did...some people give him props for even being able to move him, but he screwed up trying to turn soriano into a new productive crop of kids in the follow-up trade.

btw...hicks, himself, cited a need for more payroll flexibility as well as getting a replacement star in soriano.

the team later ended up totally "giving up"...going from a 100 million team for a few seasons to a 55+ million team in 04+.

just for kicks...

2001 - arod signs with texas
2004 - arod traded to yanks for a.soriano and joanquin arias
2005 - a.soriano traded to nats for b.wilkerson, t.sledge, and armando galarraga*

* 2005 - t.sledge, adrian gonzalez, and chris young traded to padres for a.eaton, a.otsuka, and billy killian (ow.)

I do hope you will consider the outside possibility that while A-Rod may have and did contribute in ways that got the Yanks into the playoffs, he may have been a or the (take your pick) major contributor to keeping the Yanks from reaching the World Series.

Yup... it was all A-Rod's fault. Of course - it couldn't have been Jeter's fault. Even though he had a significantly worse post season. But yea - keep blaming ARod. The Yankees don't even get to the post-season without A-Rod. Even if Mike Lowell was there instead.

I am sure that if the Yanks had it to do over again and Mike Lowell (a proven winner wherever he plays) were available, he would get the first nod over the precious A-Rod.

Haha. Right. I am sure that the Yankees would have chosen Lowell over A-Rod. Why?

If he can hit better than Pie at the Major League level - which almost seems a given - he deserves the opportunity.

Why is this given?

Minor league numbers:

Pie: .300/.358/.468 OPS: 826
Fuld: .296/.377/.417 OPS: 794

Yet somehow it "almost seems a given" that the player with the worse minor league OPS will be a better major league hitter.

Torre wouldn't have accepted a 5 year $5 million dollar contract from the Yankees. You say it wasn't about the money to Torre. But if that contract was put on the table, he wouldn't have taken it. The Yankees didn't want to guarantee him more than $5 million. Why? Because it was about the money. The contracts are guaranteed. The Yankees wanted the flexibility to dump him if the team failed in the playoffs, yet again. If they guarantee him $15 million, and his team lays yet another first round stinker in the playoffs, they want to fire him and not pay him $10 million for the privilage to do so. How can you not graps the concept. It's always about the money.

If he didn't want to answer questions about his contract all year he could go work for the Pirates for $500K a year.

Torre wouldn't have accepted a 5 year $5 million dollar contract from the Yankees. You say it wasn't about the money to Torre. But if that contract was put on the table, he wouldn't have taken it. The Yankees didn't want to guarantee him more than $5 million. Why? Because it was about the money. The contracts are guaranteed. The Yankees wanted the flexibility to dump him if the team failed in the playoffs, yet again. If they guarantee him $15 million, and his team lays yet another first round stinker in the playoffs, they want to fire him and not pay him $10 million for the privilage to do so. How can you not graps the concept. It's always about the money.

If he didn't want to answer questions about his contract all year he could go work for the Pirates for $500K a year. It comes with the territory of being the highest paid manager in the biggest media market and having seven consecutive post season failures.

8 )

Best baseball news I heard all day:

Bonds won't go to the HoF if his 756 ball is on display with an Asterisk.

If someone can just figure out how to Asterisk Sammy's, McGwire's and Palmeiro's stuff that's already there, problem over.

"If it were only about talent, A-Rod would be winning rings every year. "

If it was all about heart, Ryan Theriot would win a ring every year.

Don't say stupid things. There are 25 guys on a roster.

"If someone can just figure out how to Asterisk Sammy’s, McGwire’s and Palmeiro’s stuff that’s already there, problem over."

no proof

Yes, Neal, Money is always a factor, but believe it or not, for most people other things do come into play.

I'm not quite sure why you can't understand that there are other things, not the least of which is respect, that can play into a decision. Believe it or not, most people are not just prostitutes who will simply sell themselves to the highest bidder.

If money is the only factor to guide your decision making process in your own life, then I just feel sorry for you.

Don't worry Bleeding Blue, I come here to make fun of things you say for free of charge. Good to see you finally realize that money was a factor, though.

Wasn't this the same Torre that was rescued off the scrap heap by the Yankees after the Cardinals replaced him with a more successful manager? Remember how Kerry Wood took a less than market value one-year contract because he was embarrassed about collecting all that money while not doing his job the previous two years? Where was Torre's embarrasment? Where was Torre's allegiance to the team that gave him a chance after he ran a historically excellent franchise into the bottom half of the NL?

There's a difference, Bleeding Blue, between being unhappy about a contract offer and calling a press conferrence to complain about being 'insulted' by being offered 50% more than your peers. Every available manager in baseball would jump at that contract offer he had. What did Girardi get, 2 million for 3 years? Man, he was manager of the year, what a slap in the face! He should have spit on the Yankees and defficated on the podium after he called his press conferrence to announce he too, wouldn't be taking the job. I bet if someone offers Arod a 6 year contract he will go to the press and complain, I mean, his last contract was for 10 years, right?

The fact is Torre wanted to continue doing what he was doing, i.e. being grossly over payed, and not winning in the playoffs for as long as he saw fit. That's George's job, not the manager's. When he realized that he had to produce just like every other player and coach in baseball he freaked out. The Yankees don't, and never will owe Torre anything. That's how life works, working for a 'big' corporation. If you and Torre don't (and the majority of other TCR posters who weighed in on the subject) like it, tough. Go run a lemonade stand.

Why so many of you guys are writing about what's never going to happen (A-Rod) is perplexing. A-Rod 24x7...who will NOT become a Cub. Period.

How about options that have realistic merit? Schilling? CF? RF? SS?

Cameron is not an option anymore (if he was to begin with). Will the OF stay pat and just wait for Ty Colvin to inhabit RF?

For the rest of you with short memories, Torre walked into NY with a career .471 winning percentage and one playoff appearance (a 89 win team) in 14 seasons.

None of the SS's on the market, other than Arod are worth a crap. None of the RF's on the market are a significant offensive upgrade over Jones/Murton. None of the CF'rs hit well enough to move to right and justify their contract when Pie takes over, so...

Either it's Arod or make up trade ideas. I am for the latter (re post about contest).

San Diego declined Mackowiak's option. He might be worth a look, although he hates the Cubs on principle if memory serves.

I don't remember that, some Whitesux thing on Mackowiak? Seems like with Theriot and DeRosa we already have what Mackowiak offers.

E-Man... still waiting for you to explain how Lugo was/is a better option than Theriot...

The Real Neal:
"Bonds won’t go to the HoF if his 756 ball is on display with an Asterisk."

I am sure I will get blasted for siding this way, but oh well. I don't think the HOF should put the ball with a asterisk in the HOF. The ball is to commemorate what happened on the field and Bonds breaking the HR record, not to pass off some judgmental ideologue. By the HOF accepting the ball with an asterisk, it is partly them agreeing it should be on there. There are many other items that can be put on display to celebrate that HR (spikes, hat, glove, jersey, bat, etc.), no need to put that ball on display. And Bonds has every right not to go to the HOF.

Agreed manny.

Up to 128 players who have filed for free agency. Players have through November 12th to file.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=m...

Four Cubs players have filed: Wood, Trachsel, Floyd and Kendall.

Good to see you finally realize that money was a factor, though.

When did I ever say that money played zero role in this? I've consistantly said that there were many factors that made the Yankees offer insulting to anyone with any self respect. The paycut (aka the money) were part of that. The years were also part of that, as were the incentives - something unheard of for manager contracts, and perhaps most importantly, it was the fact that the Yankees contract "offer" was non-negotiable.

If it was only about the money, the absolutely Torre would have taken the Yankees offer. Even if it was for only one year and he was fired at the end of it, he still could have gotten an offer like he got from the Dodgers from some team again next off season.

Instead, he didn't stand for the insulting, non-negotiable offer the Yankees made, and he left, taking LESS MONEY to work someplace else.

Clearly you don't like Torre as a manager, but you're letting that cloud everything else in this case.

Clearly you don’t like Torre as a manager, but you’re letting that cloud everything else in this case.

Wrong. No great opinion on him as manager.

The years were also part of that, as were the incentives - something unheard of for manager contracts

Wrong. Torre has encouraged these incentives in previous contracts.

the fact that the Yankees contract “offer” was non-negotiable.

I've been working for 19 years on non-negotiable contracts right to work contracts, for the most part. Never called any of them insulting. Why is that, particularly since money is the only thing I am interested in? Am I lacking in self respect?

"And Bonds has every right not to go to the HOF."

Who said he doesn't? I would say he has less right than someone like Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe to be 'enshrined', but to each his own, I guess.

Bleeding Blue:
"as were the incentives - something unheard of for manager contracts,"

They couldn't have been too unheard of since Torre had them in his two previous contract with the NYY.

How telling is this stat: Since Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS - the night Boston began its epic comeback from three games down against the Yankees -
A-Rod has come to the plate with 38 runners on base, over the span of 59 at bats. He left every single one on base, going 0-for-27 right thru the Yankees Division Series loss to the Indians last month. From an article by Bruce Jenkins in the San Francisco Chronicle on 10/31 which is an interesting read.

So yeah Dave, let's blame it on A-Rod.

Bleeding Blue:
"Clearly you don’t like Torre as a manager, but you’re letting that cloud everything else in this case."

I think Torre is the most overrated manager in baseball and I side with him on this. The NYY did not want him to manage, so they made a contract they knew he had to turn down and tried to make torre look like the bad guy. It was pretty smart on the NYY part, but i think most people saw right through their offer.

It will be interesting though to see what Torre can do in LA. If he doesn't do anything, IMO it would be a major blow to him and show maybe the anti-Torre crowd was right that he was winning because of the money spent.

The Real Neal:
"I’ve been working for 19 years on non-negotiable contracts right to work contracts, for the most part. Never called any of them insulting."

I love it when non baseball people compare their pay situation to the baseball world.

Why did Torre have to turn down the contract again? Because he didn't want to answer questions about his job security? For $1.5 a year, I think most managers wouldn't mind answering some questions.

knucklehead:
"So yeah Dave, let’s blame it on A-Rod."

Yeah, the NYY "ace" who won 19 games the previous two season going 0-2 with a 19.06 ERA this year in the playoffs had nothing to do with it.

So yeah Dave, let’s blame it on A-Rod.

No question he has struggled in his last few post-season appearances. I don't deny that. But to blame A-Rod for the Yanks not getting to the World Series is silly. But this year he also hit .267/.353/.467. Hardly great... but better than most of the Yankees team this year. Of course, the Yankees losing in the first round this year had nothing to do with their best pitcher (Wang) completely sucking. Or their most expensive pitcher (Clemens) also sucking. Nope... those things can't be related to them losing at all.

Of course... Mike Lowell, your proven winner, has only been in the playoffs twice. A-Rod? Seven times.

But go ahead - get "career year" Lowell. He is a proven winner.

And ARod sucks and is the reason why the Yankees have not won a world series in several yeas.

I love it when non baseball people compare their pay situation to the baseball world.

Well, my original statement that got you pride nazis in a uproar was that Torre was living in a delusional state of mind. You can extend that to all players and managers in MLB I guess, but some people are a little farther out than others (hence all the examples, Wood, Williams, Girardi, LaRussa, Baker etc).

Plus when BB starts talking about me personally, I think it's permissable to bring my personal experience into the discussion.

The Real Neal:
"Plus when BB starts talking about me personally, I think it’s permissable to bring my personal experience into the discussion."

That is fine if want to bring it up, but it is no comparison to the baseball world. It is apples and oranges.

your righteous indignation is admirable Real Neal, but I (and apparently many others) would have probably done the same thing as Torre.

The TCR lemonade stand should be open by this weekend.

Funny, I thought I was the only one who's righteous indignation bone didn't start going off when I saw what happend too poor, pitiful Joe Torre.

I would love to be a fly on the wall for some of your contract negotiations. 'Seven years of failures, guess we should start with a 3-year extension'. Great stuff.

Suggest you go with coffee or cocoa during the off-season.

I would love to be a fly on the wall for some of your contract negotiations. ‘Seven years of failures, guess we should start with a 3-year extension’. Great stuff.

Said by the same guy who says the playoffs are a crap shoot.

Just saying...

Can you quote me on that, dave?

Because he didn’t want to answer questions about his job security? For $1.5 a year, I think most managers wouldn’t mind answering some questions.

I’ve been working for 19 years on non-negotiable contracts right to work contracts, for the most part. Never called any of them insulting.

Again, Neal, you want to keep picking apart things instead of looking at the big picture.

Its wasn't just about job security, I never said it was. It also wasn't just about the non-negotiable contract, and while that was a big part, it also wasn't the only thing.

If you sign non-negotiable contract, I'd probably call you a fool, and it probably doesn't say much about how your employer values your services, or it doesn't say much about your ability to get a job elsewhere, but I don't know anything about your line of work or why you'd sign such a deal, so I can't comment on your specific situation.

I do know that negotiations are standard for MLB managers, and if you worked in a field where contract negotiations were standard, and your boss gave you a take it or leave it offer, with a paycut, for just one year, when the industry standard was for more 2-4 years, and you still sign that contract even though you know you could go somewhere else where your services would be wanted, although you'd get a little less pay, then yes, I would certainly question your self respect.

But lets get beyond all of that Neil. If it was JUST about the money, as you've repeatedly said, then Why did Torre accept a job with the Dodgers for less than $5 million a year, when he could have just stayed with the Yankees and made up to $8 million a year?

Can you quote me on that, dave?

Maybe I am wrong... I don't have time to look for anything. Have you not said that once you get to the playoffs it is a crap shoot?

I'm sure I have said luck is a factor, and it is. Sometimes the fan lets Moist Alou catch the ball, and sometimes he doesn't.

The point is that Torre's giant contracts were based on the idea that it wasn't luck, it was his expert managing that delivered the WS titles, so it's disengeous for him, or anyone defending his right to these giant contracts to now say that the playoffs are a crapshoot.

I work on 'right-to-work contracts'. No guarantees for me or my employer (other than to ship me home). I'll be happy to take a $30K pay raise to have someone ask me if I am going to be fired once a week for the next year. Who wouldn't?

Who is talking about a pay raise?

And again, since you still haven't answered this: If Torre's issue with the Yankees contract was ONLY about the money, then why did he take a job with the Dodgers that will pay LESS money per year?

It was more guaranteed money.

Ok 'raise' is the wrong word.

I’ll be happy to be paid $30K more than anyone else doing my same job, if someone wants to ask me if I am going to be fired once a week for the next year. Who wouldn’t?

Re: Bonds and the 756 ball - This is nonsense.

The current owner of the ball says the fans voted on his website to place an asterisk on the ball if he donates it to the HOF. Bonds rightly called him an idiot, and should've left it at that.

1) How do you put an asterisk on a ball?

2) Why would the HOF go along with this anyway?

I guess the historical reference is the alleged asterisk put on Roger Maris 61 HRs in the record book. As I'm sure most of you know, that never happened. What happened is that the Commisioner ordered that there be separate categories for HRs in a season; one for 154 games and one for 162 games. No Virginia, there never was an asterisk.

It was more guaranteed money.

Seriously, that's the best you can do?

You don't think that Torre couldn't have gotten just as good of a deal from the Dodgers or another team next year?

And Re: 166, you're still clearly missing the point by such a large margin that its painful. But would you still take the job if you could make just $25k more than your peers and not deal with an unpleasant work environment?

I can honestly say I did not know that the asterisk was an urban legend.

I just looked it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Maris

"It is an urban legend, probably invented by New York sportswriter Dick Young, that an asterisk would be used to distinguish the new record."

Thanks for the info.

1) How do you put an asterisk on a ball?

I think the asterick is going to be burned/branded onto the bonds ball.

I'd really laugh my ass off if Bonds actually refused induction into the HoF because of this.

Dave: Re - Lugo v. TheRiot After looking at Lugo closely, you are absolutely right, man. A big yawn, there. Lugo batted .237 this year! Although, he can steal bases, and batted .300 in the WS...

Theriot just ran out of gas. Barring something unforseen, he'll be the starter again, with dumb-as-a-post Cedeno as a back-up IF.

Re: #163 -- "Moist Alou"

Neal, I don't know whether that was just a mis-tyupe or you're referring to Moises' 'urine on the hands' routine. If it was intentional, I like it. "Moist" Alou. Ha!

"mis-type" (how ironic!)

Sure, Bruce. You take the .430 OBP. That's great. I just want the bat flip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly4mhg-5LbI

That's off of "I threw 6 3-hit innings against the Cubs" great Byung Hyun Kim. Nice title on the youtube clip, too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3...

Arod and Co. apparently told Yanks they wouldn't even bother with a meeting unless Yanks were offering at least $350 million total.

Same articles says Dodgers highly unlikely to get involved.

Stairs back to Blue Jays, Abreu's option picked up as expected.

From that same article you just posted about
A-Rod, Rob, it says that

"The Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Marlins are among the teams which have not publicly ruled out pursuing Rodriguez"

Does that mean the Cubs have?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3...

Speaking of the Blue Jays, since the US Dollar is now worth less than the Canadian Dollar, will Toronto use this new economic advantage in the Free Agent market?

Since for years Toronto and Montreal both complained about how they were hurt by the Canadian Dollar being so low, you'd think they'd be in a great financial situation now.

"Speaking of the Blue Jays, since the US Dollar is now worth less than the Canadian Dollar, "

Is this true?

“Speaking of the Blue Jays, since the US Dollar is now worth less than the Canadian Dollar, ”

Is this true?

Yes.

the only thing I heard about the Blue Jays is they have little intention of getting involved in the FA market this year.

Its so sad re US Dollar. I LOVED going to Toronto when I'd get everything at a 30%+ discount. Such a cool City, too...

The only nearby out-of-Country deal it seems is still Mexico.

Same articles says Dodgers highly unlikely to get involved.

So I believe that means the Dodgers, Giants, and Yankees have all said they they are at least "unlikely" to get involved on A-Rod.

Angels said the same thing actually....at least Arte did.

commiting 1/3rd to 1/4th of your payroll to 1 player...

arod's been around the yanks 180-220m clubhouse too long...psst...28-29 other MLB teams outta 30 dont "work that way" because of what texas did to that player years ago...what's his name...oh yeah, arod.

Boras always gets his money (except with Dice-K), some owner will cave, they always do.

Boras is smarter than them all.

I don't think it will be $350 million total, but I'm sure the 8/230 the Yanks were thinking will come from someone or somewhere around those numbers.

i still wonder how much of a boras/arod backlash there is for boras' world series opt-out leak.

while most of the media seems over it, when they bring it up to ranking people...GM's, inner-office people, MLB brass separate from teams...it get some serious and severe criticism without holding back much.

still, not much of that should matter months from now if it takes that long.

im sure arod will get his money and/or years in some combo...it not like he's milton bradley or something.

Lincecum is evidently on the block for "a quality bat."

i find it nearly 100% impossible to see how the cubs can get in on this, though.

*Chad says:

November 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 am

“If someone can just figure out how to Asterisk Sammy’s, McGwire’s and Palmeiro’s stuff that’s already there, problem over.”

no proof
*

No proof? NO PROOF?
Palmeiro tested positive.
McGwire had the stuff in his locker.
Sosa had a corked bat.

yeah heard the lincecum rumor, I assume big bat means Miguel Cabrera or someone of that nature. Since being over 30 is a plus for the Giants, maybe they'll go get Miguel Tejada with him.

If they don't mind dealing with the Rockies, Garrett Atkins would make a lot of sense too.

Carl Crawford

lots of possibilites....

re 191:

don't give me this corked bat bullshit. when people start talking about Palmiero, McGuire and Sosa, they are talking SPECIFICALLY about steroids.

And why the hell would you part with Lincecum? That kid is reminds me of Roy Oswalt. "A big bat" is so vague. I wouldn't trade him for anything short of a Cabrera type. Atlkins and Crawford are not enough for me.

I don't know why they're considering trading him, you'd have to ask Sabean.

I assume other players would be involved in any of those deals.

Rob, your skills as a mindreader have failed yet again!

What do we pay you for anyhow?

What do we pay you for anyhow?

Exactly....

*Chad says:

November 2nd, 2007 at 1:50 pm

re 191:

don’t give me this corked bat bullshit. when people start talking about Palmiero, McGuire and Sosa, they are talking SPECIFICALLY about steroids.
*

What's the difference? They're all cheaters. None of these guys used any of those tools to pitch a ball better. They all cheated to hit the ball farther or move the bat faster. That's it.

oh bullshit. there is a huge difference between a corked bat and steroids.

BB,

Seriously, that’s the best you can do?

You don’t think that Torre couldn’t have gotten just as good of a deal from the Dodgers or another team next year?'

No team in baseball (that's 30 teams) offered him a contract to match the annual salary that the Yankees did. If he had accepted the Yankees contract and won two (not three) post season series he would have been given $5.5 more for two seasons than the Dodgers gave him for three. Obviously, the Dodger contract, one where he has to work an extra year to earn $5.5 million less is a good deal.

Brick,

I can honestly say that I didn't know the asterisk was an urban legend as well (urban doesn't really apply here anyway). There are plenty of publications that mentioned Ruth's record of 60 in 154 games. Maybe officially the asterisk wasn't in effect, but in the real world it certainly was.

Saying Lincecum reminds you of Oswalt is about the same as saying Maddux reminds you of Ryan. Lincecum is like a right handed Wagner.

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