TCR: No Good Will Come of This

The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:10pm

After Carlos Lee beat up the Cubbies again this weekend with a 5 for 12 series, a homer and couple of RBI's (pretty low-key for him), I thought it would be interesting to take a look at some of the all-time biggest Cubs killers. So thanks to some of the wonderful tools over at Baseball Musings, I looked at which players had the highest all-time OPS while facing the Cubs with at least 350 Plate Appearances. Their database only goes back to 1957 as well.

Player G AB BA
 		OBP
 		SLG
 		OPS
 		HR
 		RBI
Frank Robinson 180 636 .336 .436 .645 1.081 49 147
Willie Mays 270 997 .330 .400 .631 1.031 72 207
Gary Sheffield 93 318 .324 .462 .569 1.031 18 60
Adam Dunn 100 344 .265 .398 .602 1.000 33 61
Mike Schmidt 269 971 .292 .387 .598 .985 78 207
Carlos Lee 81 316 .313 .373 .604 .977 23 64
Hank Aaron 285 1093 .327 .379 .598 .977 75 215
Luis Gonzalez 124 475 .324 .389 .587 .976 26 90
Dante Bichette 85 357 .345 .387 .583 .970 19 81
Bill White 189 658 .350 .393 .576 .969 30 128
Larry Walker 135 484 .302 .402 .548 .950 26 97
Jim Edmonds 126 415 .270 .394 .554 .948 24 80
Albert Pujols 114 420 .288 .374 .571 .945 33 85

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have put my money on Schmidt or Lee myself, but Robinson, Aaron and Mays were doing their damage before I was following baseball. Frank Robinson holds the top spot for OPS, but Schmidt, Aaron and Mays probably did the most overall damage. So who is it?

Well let me throw in one more name into the ring...notorious Cub killer Jeff Blauser. He only had 299 PA's against the Cubs in his career, but that's because the Cubs went and signed him in 1997 as a free agent, so he'd stop pummeling them. As with most things Cub, that didn't work out and Blauser put up OPS+ numbers of 69 and 96 in his two years as a Cub and promptly retired from baseball after 1999. But from 1987 to 1997, he put up a line of .351/.413/.611 against the Cubs with 15 HR's and 48 RBI's.

I've put up a poll below this where you can rank the top Cub killers and I'm eager to hear some others I might have missed in the comments.

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#1 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by jacos on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:16pm.

Good list.

But when I think of some Cub Killers-

Steve Garvey
Craig Counsell
Jeff Conine

The problem with Blauser was he didn't get to face Cub pitching when he joined the Cubs.

:-)

#2 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:20pm.

Garvey : 771 OPS against the Cubs

Counsell: 751 w/ 3 HR and 16 RBI

Conine: 871 OPS w/ 12 HR and 45 RBI

Garvey of course with the big hit in the '84 Playoffs but not enough to put him into the discussion. 

#3 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by hoopsnut on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:27pm.

I always remember Pedro Guerrero killing the Cubs. Too lazy to look up his numbers.

#5 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:45pm.

I always remember Pedro Guerrero killing the Cubs. Too lazy to look up his numbers.

 327/405/493 with 17 HR and 83 RB's in 137 Games and 495 AB's

brutal, but we've faced worse... 

#4 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:42pm.

It looks like Richie Ashburn just missed the cut with only 245 or so plate appearances, otherwise he'd top the batting average list with .359 against the Cubs.

It's also interesting to see some of the other guys with less at bats. John Olerud hit .414 against the Cubs in 132 PAs, with an OPS of 1.203 - Christ....

Also, the guys the Cubs have feared the most historically, measured by intentional walks, seem to be Barry Bonds (38), Willie Stargell (36), Mike Schmidt (31), Pete Rose (30).

#6 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Arne Harris on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:47pm.

Can't believe Will Clark didn't make the cut.

#8 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:51pm.

Will Clark hit an atrocious .212 in his career vs. the Cubs. With just 3 HR in 336 ABs. He saved them all for the '89 playoffs.

#7 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:48pm.

Who are the greatest Cardinal killers for the Cubs?

Mark Grace has the highest career average for a Cub vs. the Cardinals at .314, for all players over 250 PAs.

However, Derek Lee, with only 230 some PAs is hitting a ridiculous .389 vs. the Cards in a Cubs uni - his OPS is 1.220.

#9 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:57pm.

am i the only smart ass who, when i first thought of cub killers, thought of people like...

Bartman
Alex Gonzales
Korey
Neifi
Dusty Baker
etc..

#12 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Ryno on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:01pm.

Don't forget...

Enrique Wilson: By far the most idiotic acquisition in the last three or four years.

#13 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:01pm.

Neifi actually hit .307 with an .854 OPS vs. the Cubs, far better than Dusty's career line of .261, .329, .375.

#15 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:12pm.

How can you blame Alex Gonzalez and Corey Patterson for being the best players the Cubs had to run out at their positions for several years? It's not like the guys sitting on the bench would've done better. Okay, in 2005 bench players would've hit better than Corey.

Dusty did a ridiculous amount of damage, of course, running Neifi out there instead of superior players and batting Corey and Neifi at the top of the order. In fact, most of Dusty's damage was in the lineups. Maybe he contributed to pitching breakdowns and maybe he didn't.

#22 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:29pm.

I didn't blame anyone.

It may not have been their fault that they killed the Cubs, but that does not mean that they were not Cub killers.

#41 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 5:59pm.

Good point--you didn't blame anyone.

But what I'm saying is that Corey and Alex were not killing the Cubs while they were starters for the Cubs because they weren't taking playing time from better players who could've improved the team. If you want to say that the presence of Corey and Alex in the everyday lineup killed the Cubs, then I think you have to say the GM killed the Cubs by not finding better players to take that playing time from them.

#45 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 9:23am.

Throwing in my 2 Cents of the Greatest cubs killers of all time:

Phil Wrigley
Tribune Inc.
Jim Frey
Larry Himes
Stanton Cook
Andy McFail
Jim Hendry
Ed Lynch
Dennis Fitzsimmons

#10 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:59pm.

This site is addicting. This is my last contribution, but one guy I always hated growing up in the late 80s early 90s was Von F-ing Hayes of the Phillies - he hit .317, .406, .482 in 461 ABs against the Cubs.

#11 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by ruz on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:00pm.

It's not surprising that guys like F Robby, Schmidt, Aaron and Mays killed the Cubs, because they killed everyone. But who were the guys (like Blauser, or Conine) who seemed to rise to the occasion against us, and hit the ball out of proportion with what they did the rest of the time?

#14 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:07pm.

How about Wally Backman, career .275 hitter who hit .340 in 332 ABs vs. the Cubs. I'd say 65 points is out of proportion!

#17 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:14pm.

But who were the guys (like Blauser, or Conine) who seemed to rise to
the occasion against us, and hit the ball out of proportion with what
they did the rest of the time?

 Good question, would have to compare their OPS against the Cubs versus their overall OPS. Not sure where to do that...

 

 

#16 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Bryan on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:13pm.

Most of the guys on this list are/were all around good or great players no matter who they faced. I think a true Cub killer would be some guy who usually is mediocre, but when facing Cubbie Blue, becomes a superhero... maybe like Wally Backman listed above.

#21 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by jacos on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:27pm.

That was what I was thinking, crappy players who hit like Mays and FRobinson against the Cubs.

#18 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:18pm.

Will there be a list of pitchers, too?

I'd be especially interested in a list of mediocre, junk ball pitchers who have managed to dominate the Cubs despite their own mediocrity.

#20 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:24pm.

Will there be a list of pitchers, too?

I'll put it on the schedule. 

#42 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Mister Whipple on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 7:09pm.

For those speaking Simpson, I'll translate Rob's statement above:

"Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

#19 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:23pm.

without looking it up, I'll guess that no one outperformed themselves quite like Jeff Blauser though...1024 OPS against the Cubs versus 760 for his career.

#23 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Bleeding Blue on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:33pm.

Its a small sample size, and his Cubs Killing-ness is relative to his overall suckiness, but Rob Mackowiak seemed to feast on Cub pitching for a couple of years.

#24 Scott Moore homers...

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:36pm.

suppose to play 2b and 1b later this week as well...seems like he might have been useful.

#25 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Q-Ball on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:42pm.

Let's be a little more upbeat!

What players have the Cubs KILLED? Way below career average?

I have no numbers per se to back this up, but seems like we did well against Doc Gooden, and Barry Bonds didn't hit us like he did everyone else.

#26 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:52pm.

Well... using the same criteria (350 plate appearances)... here are your bottom ten:

Player - OPS
Dal Maxvill - 548
Doug Flynn - 567
Bobby Wine - 581
Hal Lanier - 584
Royce Clayton - 589
Cookie Rojas - 590
Will Clark - 606
Frank Taveras - 614
Tim Foli - 614
Dick Schofield - 617

#27 Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:02pm.

Just taking a quick glance at pitchers with more than 10 starts vs the Cubs, most of the worst are just bad pitchers. But a few stand out as doing worse against the Cubs than their career lines.

Jim Deshaies 7.13 ERA has the highest ERA of any player since 1957 against the Cubs with more than 10 starts, and this is much higher than his career ERA of 4.14.

Other notables and their ERAs:

John Smiley 5.11
Frank Viola 5.03
David Cone 4.74
Don Newcombe 4.52

Looking at pitchers with 10 or more games finished:

We owned Bruce Sutter - 5.36 ERA in 33 games against the Cubs.

Other notables include Bob Wickman (6.12), Jason Isringhausen (5.03), Francisco Cordero (5.00), and David Weathers (4.94).

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