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The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:10pm.

After Carlos Lee beat up the Cubbies again this weekend with a 5 for 12 series, a homer and couple of RBI's (pretty low-key for him), I thought it would be interesting to take a look at some of the all-time biggest Cubs killers. So thanks to some of the wonderful tools over at Baseball Musings, I looked at which players had the highest all-time OPS while facing the Cubs with at least 350 Plate Appearances. Their database only goes back to 1957 as well.

Player G AB BA
 		OBP
 		SLG
 		OPS
 		HR
 		RBI
Frank Robinson
 180 636
 .336
.436
.645
1.081 49 147
Willie Mays 270 997 .330 .400
.631 1.031 72 207
Gary Sheffield
 93 318
.324
.462
.569
1.031 18 60
Adam Dunn 100 344
.265 .398
.602 1.000 33 61
Mike Schmidt 269 971 .292
.387
.598
.985 78 207
Carlos Lee 81 316 .313 .373
.604 .977 23 64
Hank Aaron 285 1093 .327
.379
.598
.977 75 215
Luis Gonzalez 124 475
.324
.389
.587
.976 26 90
Dante Bichette 85 357
.345
.387
.583
.970 19 81
Bill White 189 658
.350
.393
.576
.969 30 128
Larry Walker 135
484
.302 .402
 .548
.950
26 97
Jim Edmonds 126
415
.270
.394
.554
.948 24 80
Albert Pujols 114 420
.288 .374
.571
.945 33 85

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have put my money on Schmidt or Lee myself, but Robinson, Aaron and Mays were doing their damage before I was following baseball. Frank Robinson holds the top spot for OPS, but Schmidt, Aaron and Mays probably did the most overall damage. So who is it?

Well let me throw in one more name into the ring...notorious Cub killer Jeff Blauser. He only had 299 PA's against the Cubs in his career, but that's because the Cubs went and signed him in 1997 as a free agent, so he'd stop pummeling them. As with most things Cub, that didn't work out and Blauser put up OPS+ numbers of 69 and 96 in his two years as a Cub and promptly retired from baseball after 1999. But from 1987 to 1997, he put up a line of .351/.413/.611 against the Cubs with 15 HR's and 48 RBI's.

I've put up a poll below this where you can rank the top Cub killers and I'm eager to hear some others I might have missed in the comments.

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# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by jacos on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:16pm.

Good list.

But when I think of some Cub Killers-

Steve Garvey
Craig Counsell
Jeff Conine

The problem with Blauser was he didn't get to face Cub pitching when he joined the Cubs.

:-)

__________________________

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:20pm.

Garvey : 771 OPS against the Cubs

Counsell: 751 w/ 3 HR and 16 RBI

Conine: 871 OPS w/ 12 HR and 45 RBI

Garvey of course with the big hit in the '84 Playoffs but not enough to put him into the discussion. 

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by hoopsnut on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:27pm.

I always remember Pedro Guerrero killing the Cubs. Too lazy to look up his numbers.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:45pm.

I always remember Pedro Guerrero killing the Cubs. Too lazy to look up his numbers.

 327/405/493 with 17 HR and 83 RB's in 137 Games and 495 AB's

brutal, but we've faced worse... 

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:42pm.

It looks like Richie Ashburn just missed the cut with only 245 or so plate appearances, otherwise he'd top the batting average list with .359 against the Cubs.

It's also interesting to see some of the other guys with less at bats. John Olerud hit .414 against the Cubs in 132 PAs, with an OPS of 1.203 - Christ....

Also, the guys the Cubs have feared the most historically, measured by intentional walks, seem to be Barry Bonds (38), Willie Stargell (36), Mike Schmidt (31), Pete Rose (30).

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Arne Harris on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:47pm.

Can't believe Will Clark didn't make the cut.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:51pm.

Will Clark hit an atrocious .212 in his career vs. the Cubs. With just 3 HR in 336 ABs. He saved them all for the '89 playoffs.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:48pm.

Who are the greatest Cardinal killers for the Cubs?

Mark Grace has the highest career average for a Cub vs. the Cardinals at .314, for all players over 250 PAs.

However, Derek Lee, with only 230 some PAs is hitting a ridiculous .389 vs. the Cards in a Cubs uni - his OPS is 1.220.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:57pm.

am i the only smart ass who, when i first thought of cub killers, thought of people like...

Bartman
Alex Gonzales
Korey
Neifi
Dusty Baker
etc..

__________________________

still searching for the meaning of "assinine"

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Ryno on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:01pm.

Don't forget...

Enrique Wilson: By far the most idiotic acquisition in the last three or four years.

__________________________

Ryno
http://wolf-report.blogspot.com

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:01pm.

Neifi actually hit .307 with an .854 OPS vs. the Cubs, far better than Dusty's career line of .261, .329, .375.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:12pm.

How can you blame Alex Gonzalez and Corey Patterson for being the best players the Cubs had to run out at their positions for several years? It's not like the guys sitting on the bench would've done better. Okay, in 2005 bench players would've hit better than Corey.

Dusty did a ridiculous amount of damage, of course, running Neifi out there instead of superior players and batting Corey and Neifi at the top of the order. In fact, most of Dusty's damage was in the lineups. Maybe he contributed to pitching breakdowns and maybe he didn't.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:29pm.

I didn't blame anyone.

It may not have been their fault that they killed the Cubs, but that does not mean that they were not Cub killers.

__________________________

still searching for the meaning of "assinine"

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 5:59pm.

Good point--you didn't blame anyone.

But what I'm saying is that Corey and Alex were not killing the Cubs while they were starters for the Cubs because they weren't taking playing time from better players who could've improved the team. If you want to say that the presence of Corey and Alex in the everyday lineup killed the Cubs, then I think you have to say the GM killed the Cubs by not finding better players to take that playing time from them.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Dr. aaron b on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 9:23am.

Throwing in my 2 Cents of the Greatest cubs killers of all time:

Phil Wrigley
Tribune Inc.
Jim Frey
Larry Himes
Stanton Cook
Andy McFail
Jim Hendry
Ed Lynch
Dennis Fitzsimmons

__________________________

Rooting for Laundry since 1987

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 1:59pm.

This site is addicting. This is my last contribution, but one guy I always hated growing up in the late 80s early 90s was Von F-ing Hayes of the Phillies - he hit .317, .406, .482 in 461 ABs against the Cubs.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by ruz on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:00pm.

It's not surprising that guys like F Robby, Schmidt, Aaron and Mays killed the Cubs, because they killed everyone. But who were the guys (like Blauser, or Conine) who seemed to rise to the occasion against us, and hit the ball out of proportion with what they did the rest of the time?

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:07pm.

How about Wally Backman, career .275 hitter who hit .340 in 332 ABs vs. the Cubs. I'd say 65 points is out of proportion!

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:14pm.

But who were the guys (like Blauser, or Conine) who seemed to rise to the occasion against us, and hit the ball out of proportion with what they did the rest of the time?

 Good question, would have to compare their OPS against the Cubs versus their overall OPS. Not sure where to do that...

 

 

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Bryan on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:13pm.

Most of the guys on this list are/were all around good or great players no matter who they faced. I think a true Cub killer would be some guy who usually is mediocre, but when facing Cubbie Blue, becomes a superhero... maybe like Wally Backman listed above.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by jacos on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:27pm.

That was what I was thinking, crappy players who hit like Mays and FRobinson against the Cubs.

__________________________

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me- hst

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Charlie on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:18pm.

Will there be a list of pitchers, too?

I'd be especially interested in a list of mediocre, junk ball pitchers who have managed to dominate the Cubs despite their own mediocrity.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:24pm.

Will there be a list of pitchers, too?

I'll put it on the schedule. 

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Mister Whipple on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 7:09pm.

For those speaking Simpson, I'll translate Rob's statement above:

"Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

__________________________

Providing bottled hot water to dehydrated babies since 2004.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:23pm.
without looking it up, I'll guess that no one outperformed themselves quite like Jeff Blauser though...1024 OPS against the Cubs versus 760 for his career.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Bleeding Blue on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:33pm.

Its a small sample size, and his Cubs Killing-ness is relative to his overall suckiness, but Rob Mackowiak seemed to feast on Cub pitching for a couple of years.

__________________________

Not affiliated with some guy named Al or any website with a similar name

# Scott Moore homers...

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:36pm.
suppose to play 2b and 1b later this week as well...seems like he might have been useful.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Q-Ball on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:42pm.

Let's be a little more upbeat!

What players have the Cubs KILLED? Way below career average?

I have no numbers per se to back this up, but seems like we did well against Doc Gooden, and Barry Bonds didn't hit us like he did everyone else.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by big_lowitzki on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 2:52pm.

Well... using the same criteria (350 plate appearances)... here are your bottom ten:

Player - OPS
Dal Maxvill - 548
Doug Flynn - 567
Bobby Wine - 581
Hal Lanier - 584
Royce Clayton - 589
Cookie Rojas - 590
Will Clark - 606
Frank Taveras - 614
Tim Foli - 614
Dick Schofield - 617

__________________________

still searching for the meaning of "assinine"

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:02pm.

Just taking a quick glance at pitchers with more than 10 starts vs the Cubs, most of the worst are just bad pitchers. But a few stand out as doing worse against the Cubs than their career lines.

Jim Deshaies 7.13 ERA has the highest ERA of any player since 1957 against the Cubs with more than 10 starts, and this is much higher than his career ERA of 4.14.

Other notables and their ERAs:

John Smiley 5.11
Frank Viola 5.03
David Cone 4.74
Don Newcombe 4.52

Looking at pitchers with 10 or more games finished:

We owned Bruce Sutter - 5.36 ERA in 33 games against the Cubs.

Other notables include Bob Wickman (6.12), Jason Isringhausen (5.03), Francisco Cordero (5.00), and David Weathers (4.94).

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by TJ on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:04pm.

I agree it is more fun to see the scrubs that killed the Cubs and no other team. I disagree about Blauser. When he became a Cub he did not stop being a Cub killer.

__________________________

TJ

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by TJ on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:07pm.

I seem to remember Don Sutton having some ridicoulous stat against the Cubs. He was something like 1 -15 against them and then won 14 of 15 or something crazy like that. It may have been reverse. Does anyone have those stats?

__________________________

TJ

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:16pm.

Here is the Sutton game-by-game against the Cubs for his career:

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/PitcherInfo...

He started out 0-13 against the Cubs, he went 18-7 from there on out to finish his career 18-20.

It seems like mostly due to a string of poor run support. Of those first 13 losses he gave up 2 runs or less in 8 of them.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by WISCGRAD on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:10pm.

Dave Giusti, a palm-ball specialist, starter turned closer for the Pirates in the 1970s was 100-93 with a 145 saves and a 3.60 ERA for this carrer.

Against the Cubs he was 23-9 with 15 saves and a 2.97 ERA.

23% of his wins against one team??

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:10pm.

hardly a complete list but some of the top hitters by OPS discrepancy (career OPS compared to OPS vs. Cubs)

250 PA cut-off:

Blauser +264

Bo Diaz +166

Bill White +163

Duke Snider +158

Bob Robertson +150

Big_lowitzki though did the legwork for 350 PA's and I'll be posting that shortly..

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by TJ on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:14pm.

I just looked up Sutton. He was 0-13 against the Cubs and then went 18-7!

__________________________

TJ

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Cubster on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:26pm.

two of the more recent "little guy" Cub Killers that I hated to see up against us (a bit further down on Rob's leaderboard) are:

Craig Counsell OBP .368

Abraham Nunez OBP .364

...I really hate Counsell and now I know why. Started paying attention when he beat Matt Clement 1-0 with a game leadoff HR a few yrs back. He only has 3 HR's vs Cubs and I'm sure each has cost us.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by AAMCO on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:25pm.

Which Brewers pitcher recently, who had a career ERA of over 5, always did us in? Was it Doug Davis?

__________________________

Double 'A,' 'M-C-O.'

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Tom_C on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:28pm.

...ok I fixed my April Fool's Day (AAMCO)Transmission-based handle...Growing up in the NJ/NY area I seem to remember the immortal Doug Sisk always doing well against the Cubbies as well...

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I am an Armenian Cubs fan who loves my family and Deep Space 9, what else is there in life?

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by vorare on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:32pm.

Small sample size, but Zach Duke is worth a mention as a budding Cubs killer. He's 4-2 with a 2.10 ERA against the Cubs versus his career 21-25 / 4.18.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Vegas Brian on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:34pm.

To me, the big names aren't what bothered me. It is always the average guys like Tim Wallach, Jim Morrison, Willie Mo Pena, Marcus Giles, or Chris James that always has killed us.

__________________________

Winning is fun

# Blauser, etc.

Submitted by The E-Man on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 3:40pm.

He killed us so badly, we HAD to sign him.

And, he sucked mightily.

On another topic, Brian Roberts has an OBP of .568

Considering Soriano is an automatic out, BRob could have helped to diffuse that.

After watching "Butcher" DeRosa, and Cedeno, I wish that McFail and Hendry could have found some common ground.

__________________________

Disappointed by "Cubbery" since 1966

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Chad on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 4:10pm.

As far as I can remember Bob Walk used to kill us.

15 -4 3.68

And I don't remember who thought that we did well against Doc Gooden:

28-4 3.32

With only 15 wins over his next highest opponent.

__________________________

"I will ruin this house with my anger!" - Master Shake

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by Dmac on Wed, 04/09/2008 - 8:36am.

I seem to recall that Andy Van Slyke (Pirates) had many critical hits that beat us badly - and before he stunk up Wrigley on an everyday basis, Ron Cey (Dodgers) killed us, both at home and in LA.

# Re: The All-Time Greatest Cubs Killers

Submitted by gjdow on Wed, 04/09/2008 - 11:44pm.

The real way to determine the Cubs killers is to figure out who performed significantly BETTER against the Cubs. Guys like Mays were sure to do well, they were already Hall of Famers.

I suggest (OPS vs. Cubs)/(Career OPS) to determine who were truly Cubs killers.